Coyotes @ Kings

Waldo
11-01-2003, 10:18 AM
Tonite will begin a blessed event. Bierk will be the starter and will have a spectacular game. The Coyotes, on the verge of collapsing, will respond to Bierk's play and send Czeczmanek to an early shower. So impressive will Bierk be that BF will have no choice but to keep Brrrrk in nets while the Coyotes put an impressive winning streak together. Once and for all, the goalie issue will thusly be settled. Nagy and Doan will dominate the offense with the PP and PK being superb. There will be no looking back as this freight train powers its way thru the opposition on the way to the division lead. Inevitably, people will start naming their babies after hockey players. There will be thousands of young Zacs and Ladislavs in Phoenix.

ulf
11-01-2003, 11:53 AM
:handclap:

Dancing Chicken
11-01-2003, 02:47 PM
I like it.. Hmm my little boy needs a nick name ;)

_Del_
11-01-2003, 03:45 PM
I like it.. Hmm my little boy needs a nick name ;)

Are you taking Zac or Laddy? ;) hehe

vsmith
11-01-2003, 09:24 PM
unfortunately, twas all untrue :(

_Del_
11-02-2003, 01:41 AM
Fortunately, I missed the game, but WTF happened? OMG, could it be my pessimistic instincts were to be trusted? I just looked at the box score and it looks pretty damn ugly.... BUT, I'd like to hear from someone who actually saw what was happening (or not happening on the ice)

CoyoteBaloney
11-02-2003, 06:36 AM
Bierk will be the starter and will have a spectacular game.
Bierk sucked. Gave up way too many big rebounds.

ducky
11-02-2003, 07:01 AM
No. Player GP MINS GAA W L T GA SHA PCT G A PIM
1 Sean Burke 8 448 2.81 3 3 1 1 21 212 .901 0 1 6
35 Zac Bierk 3 170 3.88 0 1 2 0 11 91 .879 0 0 2
33 B. Boucher 1 60 5.00 0 1 0 0 5 31 .839 0 0 0
TOTALS 11 678 3.27 3 5 3 1 37 334 .889 0 1 8


Well, we rank LAST in the NHL in goaltending stats.

vsmith
11-02-2003, 07:26 AM
even behind Washington?

IGM
11-02-2003, 07:32 AM
I like the physical style of game that the dogs played tonite. Nash had a very good game as did Doan. They could both have had a handful of points each if not for some decent goaltending. The dogs played great individual hockey each player having a good game on his own. The problem last night was that as a team there was no cohesive effort. Bierk is pretty highly touted but he sure looked awful last night. I didn't see him make one save that wasn't what should be expected of an NHL goalie. I think that in order for a goalie to be so highly thought of that he should at least make two or three "oh my god" saves a night.

Langkow is a piece of garbage who stepped into an already happening altercation and should be suspended for his BS. I understand that Johnson is young and was angry at his teams poor play but after that obvious intent to injure hit he deserved to have his ass kicked or at least challenged to stand up for his actions. The Kings smallest pest dropped his gloves and went after a bigger tougher player who as expected turtled out of cowardice only to have that crap heap jump in.

IF Landcow was standing up for a team mate who couldn't defend themselves that would be one thing but to jump in on a fight that was already happening where his team mates opponent was clearly the lesser of the two is BS.

Other than that I thought that Pho looked like a very good team that was having an off night and just couldn't put it all together. Like I said, the physical style of play that your guys had was great and Doan realy looked solid. You will win allot of games this season if your team can play for each other instead of themselves.

XX
11-02-2003, 08:25 AM
Fortunately, I missed the game, but WTF happened? OMG, could it be my pessimistic instincts were to be trusted? I just looked at the box score and it looks pretty damn ugly.... BUT, I'd like to hear from someone who actually saw what was happening (or not happening on the ice)

Kings were just faster and had a transition game that was 20x better. I stopped watching after the first 4. :shakehead

The Viking
11-02-2003, 09:58 AM
I like the physical style of game that the dogs played tonite. Nash had a very good game as did Doan. They could both have had a handful of points each if not for some decent goaltending. The dogs played great individual hockey each player having a good game on his own. The problem last night was that as a team there was no cohesive effort. Bierk is pretty highly touted but he sure looked awful last night. I didn't see him make one save that wasn't what should be expected of an NHL goalie. I think that in order for a goalie to be so highly thought of that he should at least make two or three "oh my god" saves a night.

Langkow is a piece of garbage who stepped into an already happening altercation and should be suspended for his BS. I understand that Johnson is young and was angry at his teams poor play but after that obvious intent to injure hit he deserved to have his ass kicked or at least challenged to stand up for his actions. The Kings smallest pest dropped his gloves and went after a bigger tougher player who as expected turtled out of cowardice only to have that crap heap jump in.

IF Landcow was standing up for a team mate who couldn't defend themselves that would be one thing but to jump in on a fight that was already happening where his team mates opponent was clearly the lesser of the two is BS.

Other than that I thought that Pho looked like a very good team that was having an off night and just couldn't put it all together. Like I said, the physical style of play that your guys had was great and Doan realy looked solid. You will win allot of games this season if your team can play for each other instead of themselves.

I beg to differ with your opinion of the Avery-Johnson-Laperriere transgression. First of all, Johnson's hit wasn't blatantly from behind. It was borderline as to whether it should have been a penalty or not.
BTW Johnson is not all that young, he would probably be considered one of the teams elder statesmen.

As for Johnson turtling, Avery clearly jumped him from behind and started whaling on him, so I don't see how else Johnson could react. I know if I were jumped from behind and sucker punched I would probably turtle until I could get my wits about me and serve up some retribution to the two-faced little punk that isn't man enough to challenge me face to face.

Don't get me wrong, Avery deserves credit for coming to his teammate's defense but jumping Johnson from behind was just not the proper way to do it.

One last note, Langkow was actually doing something very similar to what Avery did, he was coming to the aid of his linemate. The only reason he jumped in was because Avery jumped Johnson from behind. It technically doesn't make it OK, but if your in Langkow's skates and your friend and linemate gets jumped you'd probably have reacted the same way.

Hordichuk_24
11-02-2003, 11:17 AM
Langkow is a piece of garbage who stepped into an already happening altercation and should be suspended for his BS.

Langkow was defending his teammate from getting jumped from behind. If anything he should be honored for standing up for his teammate. Especially one that isn't known for his physical play in Johnson. We need more players like Daymond Langkow in the NHL that are willing to put their ass on the line in order to stand up for their teammates.

IGM
11-02-2003, 11:49 AM
It happened right in front of me and johnson A, took a complete run at Lapperier from behind and it was the second time that shift he had done that and B, Johnson had already turned and was mostly facing Avery when Avery jumped at him. Langkow waited until he saw that Avery had the upperhand and THEN jumped on the back of him. If it was as you said it then sure, he was standing up for a team mate but the facts are what they are and they happened 30 feet away from me. The other thing is that Johnson needs to be held accountable for his BS hitting from behind that he was doing all night. Like I said, it was the second time that shift that he did that and if he isn't a physical player then he shouldn't have been doing what he did in the first place.

Langkow is a cheap piece of crap who jumped in on a fight that needed to happen to straighten things out. I see what you are saying but from where I was sitting I think you are wrong.

Hordichuk_24
11-02-2003, 11:58 AM
Langkow is a cheap piece of crap who jumped in on a fight that needed to happen to straighten things out. I see what you are saying but from where I was sitting I think you are wrong.

You and I usually agree on most things but I can't agree here. Langkow is far from a "cheap piece of crap". He always stands up for his teammates no matter who it is. And he isn't a big guy by any means. If you remember early on in the game Johnson got cross checked in the head by Miller (while Phoenix was on the PP). Langkow immediately went up to Miller and give him a shot. He is just that type of player. Small in size, big in heart.

I understand what you are saying. But my friend this isn't the good old days anymore. Lappy and Avery aren't able to go after Johnson and settle the issue anymore. I totally understand why Avery did what he did and it only gives me more of a reason to like the guy. But at the same time I totally understand why Langkow did what he did. Its pretty much the exact situation if you really think about it.

Frolov 6'3
11-02-2003, 12:03 PM
First of all I don't want to make fun of you people but this is a hilarious thread. :lol:

With the 7-3 in mind, I started to read Waldo's post. I thought his post was sarcastic but the date told otherwise.

Gwyddbwyll
11-02-2003, 12:18 PM
I think Waldo could have been making a reference to the 5-4 win over LA two seasons ago (from 0-4 down) which basically turned our season around, saw the birth of the Homer Line and sent us on our way to the playoffs.

And IGM.. calling Langkow a cheap piece of crap is like saying Yzerman has no heart or Kariya cant skate lol. I'd call any other Coyote cheap before Langkow who is only marginally bigger than Briere.

The Viking
11-02-2003, 12:54 PM
It happened right in front of me and johnson A, took a complete run at Lapperier from behind and it was the second time that shift he had done that and B, Johnson had already turned and was mostly facing Avery when Avery jumped at him. Langkow waited until he saw that Avery had the upperhand and THEN jumped on the back of him. If it was as you said it then sure, he was standing up for a team mate but the facts are what they are and they happened 30 feet away from me. The other thing is that Johnson needs to be held accountable for his BS hitting from behind that he was doing all night. Like I said, it was the second time that shift that he did that and if he isn't a physical player then he shouldn't have been doing what he did in the first place.

Langkow is a cheap piece of crap who jumped in on a fight that needed to happen to straighten things out. I see what you are saying but from where I was sitting I think you are wrong.

Give your head a shake man. I understand some fans tend to see things from their teams perspective but come on. If you tried to look at things objectively, it is debatable whether the hit on Laperriere was from behind or not. I thought it was more from the side and I saw the replay a number of times. Maybe you didn't get the proper perspective from where you were sitting.

The refs gave Johnson a penalty for interference. Two minute penalty. Nuff said.

IGM
11-02-2003, 02:28 PM
I think you are right to a point and should qualify what I said with that I think that Langkows actions in that instance was cheap and that he acted like a piece of garbage in that case. Not that you should throw away his entire game for it. It just pisses me off to see any player jump in to a fight.

Oh, from where I was sitting you couldn't have had a better look at what happened. It was deliberate, you could see his eyes and the look on his face before the hit and after and he knew what he was doing and what he was trying to do. He was just frustrated at how his team was playing and how poorly he himself was doing AND that Lapperier had caught him with a clean check a shift prior.

You aren't going to say that the refs are the final authority on what actually happens during a game are you? I mean, the player HAVE to accept what they call but I think that in any game on any night the refs are right maybe 1/2 of the time at best.


That being said, point taken on what I have called Landcow. HE isn't a "piece of crap" his actions in that situation were what was crappy. Johnson had it comming and could easily take care of himself there. Oh, and he absolutely saw Avery comming. I have watched a tape of the game a few times now and gone over that situation a bunch and you can clearly see johnson look up turn and then go turtle. Its cool, not everyone is willing to back up there actions like a man (look at more than half of the Kings roster for an example) but in that case he should have had to and would have if not for Langkows shinanigans.

IGM
11-02-2003, 02:30 PM
Oh, and I think it is good for guys like us to dissagree once in awhile 24. It shows that we fight fans aren't all of the same exact mindset and it makes our detractors argument of "you guys are all alike" just more BS.

All though, as stated above, I think that I was wrong in saying that Langkow is an entire pos, just what he did in that situation.

Hordichuk_24
11-02-2003, 02:56 PM
Oh, and I think it is good for guys like us to dissagree once in awhile 24. It shows that we fight fans aren't all of the same exact mindset and it makes our detractors argument of "you guys are all alike" just more BS.

All though, as stated above, I think that I was wrong in saying that Langkow is an entire pos, just what he did in that situation.

I totally understand where you are coming from. As far as I'm concerned if someone (Johnson in this case) wants to play that type of game, he better be ready to answer the bell when called upon. But at the same time, I can't blame Langkow for wanting to defend his teammate. Regardless if the hit was intentional or not.

ulf
11-02-2003, 03:52 PM
as far as the game itself goes, yotes goaltending has been left out to hang or it's been pathetic.

to bad cause this type of scenario causes mgmt to make bad desisions.

zac took alot of steps backward with his play last night.
booch gets another shot that his play hasn't merited
burke needs to get over the situation the yotes have put him in and start playing near his capabilities.

come on yotes show you can be a good team with or without goaltending.

Guest
11-02-2003, 04:01 PM
I gave up on the game after the 2nd period, I just couldn't stand to watch it anymore.

Our goaltending has become our achilles heel, but I think our young defense is starting to catch up to us because on many of those goals, there was just no defensive support.

From what I saw, Bierk played better than he is being given credit for, he only allowed 1 goal more I believe that I didn't see. The goals he let in were bad, but the team was playing badly. I'd like to see Bierk get some more time yet, but Boucher is the logical guy in the dreary-go-round.

Our penalty killing is killing us. I admit I was shocked to see we are in 12th place with our PK however, I still feel it's hurt us by the number of PPG's we've alllowed.

We continue to lose in the faceoff circle as well. Sillinger was a monster in LA going 10 wins 2 losses, while Hrdina & Langkow put up miserable draw numbers.

I've been happy with Doan, the Homer line, and Sillinger, but we need another 5 people to show up too. Kolanos has been looking better since his bench.

I'm very disappointed in this team, and it's just a sign of what this team is all about I think.

CoyoteBaloney
11-02-2003, 10:03 PM
From what I saw, Bierk played better than he is being given credit for, he only allowed 1 goal more I believe that I didn't see. The goals he let in were bad, but the team was playing badly. I'd like to see Bierk get some more time yet, but Boucher is the logical guy in the dreary-go-round.
From what I saw Bierk played like a piece of crap giving up big rebound after big rebound costing us a few goals.

roadrunner
11-02-2003, 10:35 PM
From what I saw Bierk played like a piece of crap giving up big rebound after big rebound costing us a few goals.

I don't remember the 4th and 5th LA goals too well, but the first 3 were not Bierk's fault. The "controversial" Palfy goal was actually a fantastic glove save, but unfortunately, over the goal line. The next two were PPG's, with "Lucky" setting a nice screen for a tip and Visnovsky with a great shot (kinda like Suchy's PPG). Perhaps Bierk gave up big rebounds, but as one of Sean Burke's mentors has said, "rebounds are a result of you making the first save...don't worry about the rebounds. If there is no rebound (and you don't make that first save), then it is a goal without contest. Or something like that, as I am paraphrasing from memory. Zac had made several sharp saves, IMO, in an unfortunate (Mara, you owe Zac dinner) loss.

That 6th goal on Sean was one of the worst I EVER seen as a Coyote fan...where in THE hell were they?!? Noone was within 30 feet of Frolov, and we were on a friggen PP!! A stinker of a game, but we gotta keep our heads up...Lanche next! :shakehead

CoyoteBaloney
11-03-2003, 10:03 AM
The "controversial" Palfy goal was actually a fantastic glove save, but unfortunately, over the goal line.
One would think part of the goalie's job is to know where the goal line is and save the puck before the puck crosses it. Fantastic glove save after the goal was scored. In other words it was a useless non-save.

Bierk sucked.

Guest
11-03-2003, 10:10 AM
One would think part of the goalie's job is to know where the goal line is and save the puck before the puck crosses it. Fantastic glove save after the goal was scored. In other words it was a useless non-save.

Bierk sucked.

It's more of a matter of preparation. If you remember when Esche was here, he was very prone to letting in a goal early in the period. It's a common thing, and Bierk was just not fully prepared to have the proper positioning. I'm sure that game pissed off Bierk because there were several that he would have loved a 2nd chance on. It was definitely not a shining moment for Bierk, I think it could have been far worse with another unnamed goalie in the nets.

Devils Advocate
11-03-2003, 10:40 AM
I think the biggest piece of crap was Lapierre, turtling when he got hit from the side by Johnson. Covered up, faking an injury & then sheepishly looked up, got up as if he hadn't even been hit & throwing his gloves off & getting into the fray.

Haven't seen a lame move like that since Claude Lemieux turtled against the Redwings.

Some tough guy he is.

Waldo
11-03-2003, 10:51 AM
Earlier this season people were posting about the goalie depth the Coyotes have. Now we can't even find 1 goaltender that isn't struggling and can deliver a win. Looks like Boosh will get another chance. We could be out of the playoff race real soon.

CoyoteBaloney
11-03-2003, 11:21 AM
It's more of a matter of preparation. If you remember when Esche was here, he was very prone to letting in a goal early in the period. It's a common thing, and Bierk was just not fully prepared to have the proper positioning. I'm sure that game pissed off Bierk because there were several that he would have loved a 2nd chance on. It was definitely not a shining moment for Bierk, I think it could have been far worse with another unnamed goalie in the nets.
And who's responsible it for Zac Bierk being prepared for the game? Who ever had that responsibility is the one to blame for Bierk's play.

Is it really we can't find a #1 goalie or is it that about half the team has stopped following the game plan that they followed in the first 3 games? From what I have seen, there is a number of players who have changed their game intensity for the worse.

ulf
11-03-2003, 12:15 PM
tony does this mean you are losing faith in booby.....he is responsible for his players game readiness.

the head games mgmt played with teppo and burke soured teppo and looks to have gotten into the head of sean also.

the psyche of this team is such that sean is their rock and his play of late has shaken them all, and the game plan they went into the season with.

3 goalies doesn't work send zac or booch down now so the other 2 can regain their confidence and game.

CoyoteBaloney
11-03-2003, 10:06 PM
tony does this mean you are losing faith in booby.....he is responsible for his players game readiness.

the head games mgmt played with teppo and burke soured teppo and looks to have gotten into the head of sean also.

the psyche of this team is such that sean is their rock and his play of late has shaken them all, and the game plan they went into the season with.

3 goalies doesn't work send zac or booch down now so the other 2 can regain their confidence and game.
Francis is not for the individual players being ready for the game. Francis is responsible for the game plan being ready for the game. Each player is for their own game readiness state. Zac Bierk is responsible for Zac Bierk being ready to follow the game plan Francis and the rest of the coaching staff developed. Was it Francis' fault that Bierk was not ready for the game and stunk up the first two periods? No. It was Zac Bierk's fault.