fata

Peter Sidorkiewicz
11-01-2003, 11:44 AM
another 2 goals tonight. man he's playing well

The Tang
11-01-2003, 11:56 AM
yes, extremely well. and cause i feel like it, here's some stats comparing fata and kovalev

GP G A P +/- $
Fata 10 5 3 8 -2 930,000
Kovalev 8 1 4 5 +2 6,600,000

DJ Spinoza
11-01-2003, 11:56 AM
He's had a scoring edge on Kovy since the trade.

Der Schweinehund
11-01-2003, 12:02 PM
If he keeps up this prodigious play, the Pens are going to have to hire a Spanish PA announcer (a la soccer) exclusively to call a resounding, rolling-r "R-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-ico FAAAA-ta"

The Tang
11-01-2003, 12:03 PM
i know, but the main thing i was pointing out was the "$" stat, which really isnt a stat at all. but it makes me feel good were getting more for 5.6M less from a guy who is a "bust"

Koltsov71
11-01-2003, 12:54 PM
I'm really tiring of the stat comparisons between Kovalev and Fata. Seems pointless to me. The Rangers are off to a slow start in the offensive department. Kovalev will still get his 60-70 or more points. It's not like he's been playing poorly. It also doesn't help that he's played the past two games on a bum knee.

DJ Spinoza
11-01-2003, 12:59 PM
I'm not. I even dedicated a whole thread to it on the Site Boards, although we have a joke about stat watches there.

I did it in jest originally, maybe it will be a success.:joker:

Evilo
11-01-2003, 11:26 PM
Come on people. Put Kovalev in Pittsburgh he'd have twice as many points as Fata.
Live with the deal without having to justify it.

Evilo
11-02-2003, 01:39 AM
I'm a Pens fan and I don't change my opinion on a player if he leaves.
I still cheer for Kovalev, Jagr and every Pens I loved.
Not for Kaspar but I hated him as a Penguin too.

I don't have a short memory.

Koltsov71
11-02-2003, 03:43 AM
Kovalev is supposed to have more talent than Rico.

Are you saying he doesn't?

Koltsov71
11-02-2003, 03:44 AM
Come on people. Put Kovalev in Pittsburgh he'd have twice as many points as Fata.
Live with the deal without having to justify it.

Bingo! :)

Mr. T
11-02-2003, 04:48 AM
If he keeps up this prodigious play, the Pens are going to have to hire a Spanish PA announcer (a la soccer) exclusively to call a resounding, rolling-r "R-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-ico FAAAA-ta"

Already done (minus the Spanish part).

The Tang
11-02-2003, 07:05 AM
Come on people. Put Kovalev in Pittsburgh he'd have twice as many points as Fata.
Live with the deal without having to justify it.
oh, i can live with it, but this just makes me feel a little better (i freaked out originally when i saw the trade). plus, the worse kovalev does, the less chance there is of the rangers wanting him back after this year. not that our chances of getting him back are that good, but i'd much rather see him with almost any other team.

Darth Vitale
11-02-2003, 07:07 AM
I bet he'd have twice as many points as Fata if he were playing on any team not called the Rangers, too.

;)

aylib
11-02-2003, 07:18 AM
I said this once...i'll say it again.

Kovalev was a star in pittsburgh, he took what he did in Pittsburgh for granted and wanted to go somewhere he would get paid. Well buddy you got paid alright but your play is back to its enigmatic ways...good riddance.

Rico is a hard worker and it shows, AK is slacking, once u put on a Rags uni it tends to happen...just look at the bevy of "hasbeens."

I remember when Bure was one of the best goal scorers...now he's at home eating peroggies watching Friends with Gino Odjick.
After Bure-like career one can do whatever the hell he wants. And if you guys are going to compare Kovalev's and Fata's salaries, might as well include career numbers in the argument.

DJ Spinoza
11-02-2003, 08:53 AM
The talent level is something you really can't compare.

Alex Daigle is talented, he hasn't done anything in the NHL yet.

Fata is 23 years old. He has talent too.

Kovalev is still a great player, but there I believe Fata can become a great player as well. If you want to call me out on this, go ahead. He has talent and never played a full NHL season until last year. He's put up good numbers in the A. From what he's shown me this year, I find no reason to believe he can't be a good player in the NHL either.

Not saying he's better than Kovy by any means. But that trade might not end up as bad as it looked.

DJ Spinoza
11-02-2003, 01:10 PM
I just made a post with a link to my article about Fata in the NHL forum...

kutdacheez
11-02-2003, 01:17 PM
I still cheer for Kovalev, Jagr and every Pens I loved.

That may be more than any of us wanted to know. No wonder Yammies girlfriend hightailed it! :D

Habdominal
11-03-2003, 04:18 PM
I'm a Rico Fata fan's from the Calgary days... just love his speed. He just shows flashes of brillance. But I think comparing him with Kovalev is just unfair.

Kovalev is a far, FAR better player... if the Pens weren't in sucha financial mess the trade probably wouldn't have been allowed. That said the kid is gona be usefull and even have the potential to become an excellent player. Never a Great One... but an excellent one that's gona be fun to watch for many years to come.

As for Kovalev, wel gotta admit he plays for the Rangers... wich doesn't help :p But he will get back to his old self soon enough :yo:

Ausburgh
11-04-2003, 08:50 AM
Scarface !!! - I know this is a hockey site and all but I find it EXTREMELY disrespectful that you would use the picture of our president with "dumbass" under it as your avatar. :confused:

We don't particularly care for your [socialist / communist] prime minister jean chretien. Yet you don't see Americans posting his picture with some disparaging word under it.

What say you????

The Tang
11-04-2003, 08:53 AM
Scarface !!! - I know this is a hockey site and all but I find it EXTREMELY disrespectful that you would use the picture of our president with "dumbass" under it as your avatar. :confused:

We don't particularly care for your [socialist / communist] prime minister jean chretien. Yet you don't see American posting the his picture with some disparaging word under it.

What say you????

i'd prefer if you just pm'ed Scarface about this and forgoe any risk of starting something up.

Don'tcry4mejanhrdina
11-04-2003, 09:39 AM
Actually, I'm Canadian and I wouldn't be offended at all if you had Chretien with dumbass written underneath as your avatar. He is letting people kill babies and get away with it (abortions). That is just one of the MANY things I don't like about Chretien. And for the record, I don't like Bush either. Nothing against the US, I just think that Canada and the US can be run MUCH better than they are right now.

The Tang
11-04-2003, 09:45 AM
do avoid any political or moral debate, lets just get back to fata like the thread says.

aylib
11-04-2003, 09:52 AM
Scarface !!! - I know this is a hockey site and all but I find it EXTREMELY disrespectful that you would use the picture of our president with "dumbass" under it as your avatar. :confused:

We don't particularly care for your [socialist / communist] prime minister jean chretien. Yet you don't see Americans posting his picture with some disparaging word under it.

What say you????
Who is we?

iagreewithidiots
11-04-2003, 11:26 AM
I said this once...i'll say it again.

Kovalev was a star in pittsburgh, he took what he did in Pittsburgh for granted and wanted to go somewhere he would get paid. Well buddy you got paid alright but your play is back to its enigmatic ways...good riddance.

Rico is a hard worker and it shows, AK is slacking, once u put on a Rags uni it tends to happen...just look at the bevy of "hasbeens."

I remember when Bure was one of the best goal scorers...now he's at home eating peroggies watching Friends with Gino Odjick.

Whoa! What are you talking about?

Where is all this anger from. I dont recall Kovy ever asking for a trade or talking trash on the team or city.

Granted he did turn down a long term deal but lets assume he accepted. Where do you think he would be right now? It wouldnt be in Pittsburgh.

How dare you say good riddance to Kovy. You are no Pens fan. You should be ashamed.

The Tang
11-04-2003, 12:30 PM
Whoa! What are you talking about?

Where is all this anger from. I dont recall Kovy ever asking for a trade or talking trash on the team or city.

Granted he did turn down a long term deal but lets assume he accepted. Where do you think he would be right now? It wouldnt be in Pittsburgh.

How dare you say good riddance to Kovy. You are no Pens fan. You should be ashamed.
how do you know kovalev wouldnt be here? maybe straka would be gone, traded for nothing so they could pay kovalev. you dont know for sure he would be gone. the Pens offered 5.5M a year, 1M more than straka makes.

also, just becasue he sys good riddance to Kovy, doesnt mean he's not a Pens fan. you are allowed to not like players you know...

The Tang
11-04-2003, 12:39 PM
and if he continues his current pace with the rangers, he sure wont be getting 6.6M next year, and may not get more than a one year deal as people wont see him as being consistent enough. he could possibly have shot himself in the foot.

The Tang
11-04-2003, 12:57 PM
i loved his line "i have to think about my family" that is such bs. my dad put three kids through college (expensive ones at that) and has given us a damn good life on a hell of a lot less than 5.5M a year he was offered. not to mention my dad absolutely hates what he does. that line is one of the biggest bs things i have ever heard from a sports players mouth. i guess his kids couldnt live with only a 3 car garage house.

Koltsov71
11-04-2003, 01:18 PM
Alex Daigle is talented, he hasn't done anything in the NHL yet.

252 points in 504 games is nothing?

Koltsov71
11-04-2003, 01:29 PM
According to some people, no.

He lost his drive, it happens to some people, at least he admitted it.

Sure they aren't superstar numbers by any means, but I definitely wouldn't call them nothing. Considering he's only what, 28? And he missed three years of hockey. 500+ games played is nothing to sneeze at.

tom_servo
11-04-2003, 02:00 PM
There have been worse busts than Daigle. Bonsignore comes to mind.

Big McLargehuge
11-04-2003, 05:05 PM
a goal and an assist tonight for Rico.

Takes over the sole lead of the team lead in points.

spence___
11-04-2003, 05:13 PM
It makes me soo angry when hockey players and other athletes do this, they have a great year and then they ruin their career by signing a ludacris contract that they know they aren't worthy of.

Nedved - 99pts then held out.
Jagr - Mario Jr pouted his way out
Kovalev - nice guy act made us all love him.
Lang - @(&%}#()&&^

If we had 3 out of the 4 listed, we wouldn't be a bottom feeder team, but then again we wouldn't have had Fleury....

What was wrong with Lang? I dont think he and the Pen's were all that far apart and noone expected Washington to give him the deal they did.

DJ Spinoza
11-04-2003, 05:45 PM
All I meant by my post was that Daigle didn't live up to expectations.

There were extinuating circumstances, but the fact remains the same.

iagreewithidiots
11-06-2003, 02:19 AM
how do you know kovalev wouldnt be here? maybe straka would be gone, traded for nothing so they could pay kovalev. you dont know for sure he would be gone. the Pens offered 5.5M a year, 1M more than straka makes.

also, just becasue he sys good riddance to Kovy, doesnt mean he's not a Pens fan. you are allowed to not like players you know...

Yeah Im sure the Pens would have traded Straka for nothing. Look at all the teams lined up for him right now. There is no easy way to break this to you but if they could trade Straka for anything he would be gone. Given what the Pens have dumped players for recently I highly doubt the Pens are looking for much for Straka.

Logic is my reason for saying Kovy would be gone. Sure I dont know he would be gone the same as you dont know he would be here. It makes more sense that this team would move a long term deal at 5.5 million per season.

Also I feel a fan should show some kind of respect for a teams players. If you cheer for a guy and talk about how great he was for your team dont smack him in the back of the head when hes leaving. Im entitled to my opinion too dont ya know?

The Tang
11-06-2003, 04:58 AM
Yeah Im sure the Pens would have traded Straka for nothing. Look at all the teams lined up for him right now. There is no easy way to break this to you but if they could trade Straka for anything he would be gone. Given what the Pens have dumped players for recently I highly doubt the Pens are looking for much for Straka.

Logic is my reason for saying Kovy would be gone. Sure I dont know he would be gone the same as you dont know he would be here. It makes more sense that this team would move a long term deal at 5.5 million per season.

Also I feel a fan should show some kind of respect for a teams players. If you cheer for a guy and talk about how great he was for your team dont smack him in the back of the head when hes leaving. Im entitled to my opinion too dont ya know?
1) i was stating a hypothetical situation with marty being dealt instead. im not saying it would have happened

2) yes you are entitled to your opinion, there's nothing wrong with that. but mine is it is hypocritical to say he loves a team and wants to stay, but then rejects the biggest offer he knows they can afford. if you love a team, you will stay and take less. Kovalev wouldnt budge, and claimed the bs "i have to take care of my family" which is a slap in the Pens face because that isnt true.

kutdacheez
11-06-2003, 05:38 AM
if you love a team, you will stay and take less. Kovalev wouldnt budge, and claimed the bs "i have to take care of my family" which is a slap in the Pens face because that isnt true.

As you said, you are entitled to your opinion.
Myself, my opinion is this: Money Talks. This, although part of it is a sport . . . is a business. Same as everyone of us . . . that chose to go to the highest bidder or are self-employed.
Most employment decisions are made in regard to our selfish, stingy selves wanting nothing more than a better life style for ourself and our loved ones.

Would you take less to do the same job? :dunno:

HINT: Before you answer that make sure your employer doesn't read these boards. :D

The Tang
11-06-2003, 06:59 AM
Would you take less to do the same job? :dunno:


sports is a little different. while i understand the business side, playing for a team where the fans love you and yuou have flourished should instill some sense of loyalty to them. he turned down a multiyear deal for a one year deal, and if he keeps playin like he does for the rangers, chances are he wont get that much for his next contract.

i also have problems with people saying how much they love the team, then are quick to bolt as soon as someone else offers a penny more.

Beukeboom Fan
11-06-2003, 12:46 PM
As you said, you are entitled to your opinion.
Myself, my opinion is this: Money Talks. This, although part of it is a sport . . . is a business. Same as everyone of us . . . that chose to go to the highest bidder or are self-employed.
Most employment decisions are made in regard to our selfish, stingy selves wanting nothing more than a better life style for ourself and our loved ones.

Would you take less to do the same job? :dunno:

HINT: Before you answer that make sure your employer doesn't read these boards. :D

If you're happy where you are at, and you were independantly wealthy, would you switch jobs for a raise? I sure wouldn't.

I think it's impossible to compare the posters on this board, with professional atheletes. Alexi Kovalev could support his extended family in perputity with what he made from his contract last year.

Der Schweinehund
11-06-2003, 02:15 PM
Myself, my opinion is this: Money Talks.

Most employment decisions are made in regard to our selfish, stingy selves wanting nothing more than a better life style for ourself and our loved ones.


I have 5 words for you...

"Retired Candian Business Executive Mentors!"

(PS - this is copyright based on a pending movie deal...)

iagreewithidiots
11-08-2003, 08:24 AM
As you said, you are entitled to your opinion.
Myself, my opinion is this: Money Talks. This, although part of it is a sport . . . is a business. Same as everyone of us . . . that chose to go to the highest bidder or are self-employed.
Most employment decisions are made in regard to our selfish, stingy selves wanting nothing more than a better life style for ourself and our loved ones.

Would you take less to do the same job? :dunno:

HINT: Before you answer that make sure your employer doesn't read these boards. :D

I have to agree big time on this.

When it comes to sports and big money contracts it really isnt about the money.

Its about respect. If a team respects you they pay you what you are worth. If a team low balls you they are disrespecting you.

Why is it that if a player turns down a low ball contract he is slapping his team in the face and is a liar for saying he loves the city but its perfectly fine for a team to expect a guy to play for less then he can make somewhere else?

iagreewithidiots
11-08-2003, 08:32 AM
If you're happy where you are at, and you were independantly wealthy, would you switch jobs for a raise? I sure wouldn't.

I think it's impossible to compare the posters on this board, with professional atheletes. Alexi Kovalev could support his extended family in perputity with what he made from his contract last year.

It depends, if I had goals to acheive that I couldnt acheive with my current employer, say like winning championships, I would gladly change to a better team especially when it pays more.

The Tang
11-08-2003, 10:27 AM
I have to agree big time on this.

When it comes to sports and big money contracts it really isnt about the money.

Its about respect. If a team respects you they pay you what you are worth. If a team low balls you they are disrespecting you.

Why is it that if a player turns down a low ball contract he is slapping his team in the face and is a liar for saying he loves the city but its perfectly fine for a team to expect a guy to play for less then he can make somewhere else?
i'd hardly call 5.5M a year for 5 years a low ball deal. plus, the first offer is always low, its aprt of bargaining.

iagreewithidiots
11-11-2003, 08:50 AM
i'd hardly call 5.5M a year for 5 years a low ball deal. plus, the first offer is always low, its aprt of bargaining.

I was really reffering to players in general.

But since you brought it up, yes 5.5 million for Kovalev would be a lowball deal. This is exactly what Im talking about. You say oh well its just an initial offer its supposed to be low. Come on everyone, including the Penguins, which is why he was traded, knew Kovalev was a lock to get 7-9 million in arbitration.

Since you say the Pens were just making a typical bargaining move by undervaluing Kovalev what would you say if overvalued himself? Say Kovalev says I want 11.5 million a year what would you say.

Dont lie now. You wouldnt say oh its just his first response its supposed to be high. You and a lot of other people would say what a greedy no good SOB he was. By making an absurd comment like offering Kovalev 5.5 million wasnt a lowball offer I think you have helped to prove my point.

The Tang
11-11-2003, 09:52 AM
I was really reffering to players in general.

But since you brought it up, yes 5.5 million for Kovalev would be a lowball deal. This is exactly what Im talking about. You say oh well its just an initial offer its supposed to be low. Come on everyone, including the Penguins, which is why he was traded, knew Kovalev was a lock to get 7-9 million in arbitration.

Since you say the Pens were just making a typical bargaining move by undervaluing Kovalev what would you say if overvalued himself? Say Kovalev says I want 11.5 million a year what would you say.

Dont lie now. You wouldnt say oh its just his first response its supposed to be high. You and a lot of other people would say what a greedy no good SOB he was. By making an absurd comment like offering Kovalev 5.5 million wasnt a lowball offer I think you have helped to prove my point.

1) i would laugh out loud then ask them seriously what he wanted for his salary. and if he said that, i would get off the phone and start asking aound, cause he isnt worth nearly that. and yes, i would say he was greedy, but not a no good sob.

2) 5.5M bad for Kovalev? when you compare to bad deals like Holik and Lang maybe it looks bad, but not otherwise. if Kovalev keeps playing like he does, 5.5 may be a very good deal for him after the cba. cause he isnt playing like a 6.6M dollar player, thats for sure

3) he knew the Pens couldnt afford much, and for being in a placed he "loved and didnt want to leave" he sure turned down the offer pretty quick, knowing full well he couldnt get anymore form the "team he loved" 5.5m for 5 years is not a lowball offer when it comes from a team like the Pens.

iagreewithidiots
11-11-2003, 11:11 AM
1) Thank you for helping me prove my point.

2) What do you think they compare it to? If you are saying he isnt playing like a 6.6 million player now how is that revelant to how he was playing in Pittsburgh at the time of the contract offer?

3) Everybody knew the Pens couldnt afford Kovy big surprise. That oh he said he loved the city/team/fans argument is so lame. What is a player supposed to say? Is he supposed to say the city is boring, the team is going down the toilet, and the fans are stupid? I mean seriously dont be naive.

5.5 million for 5 years at that time was a lowball offer. Just because the Pens couldnt afford it it doesnt mean his fair market value decreases for them. He would have easily gotten 7 million in arbitration.

The Tang
11-11-2003, 01:06 PM
1) Thank you for helping me prove my point.

2) What do you think they compare it to? If you are saying he isnt playing like a 6.6 million player now how is that revelant to how he was playing in Pittsburgh at the time of the contract offer?

3) Everybody knew the Pens couldnt afford Kovy big surprise. That oh he said he loved the city/team/fans argument is so lame. What is a player supposed to say? Is he supposed to say the city is boring, the team is going down the toilet, and the fans are stupid? I mean seriously dont be naive.

5.5 million for 5 years at that time was a lowball offer. Just because the Pens couldnt afford it it doesnt mean his fair market value decreases for them. He would have easily gotten 7 million in arbitration.

1) you think Kovalev is worth 11M? i think he would be laughing all the way to the bank. the rangers didnt give him that much, an seeing as how the likes of federov, who is a better all around player, got 8M, i think you're really need to rethingk giving him that much.

2) i fail to see how 5.5M a year is bad at all. maybe he is worth a lot more cause of ridiculus inflation with the likes of roenick and Turgeon, but realistically, 5.5M ist exactly cheap. hell, hatcher only got about 6M and he was asking for about 9M and has been an all star for how many years now?

3) DONT SAY ANYTHING! god, at least have the decency not to lie to the fans about wanting to stay. just admit youwant the money. is it that hard? its not like everyone doesnt see through it in the first place.

iagreewithidiots
11-11-2003, 01:28 PM
1) you think Kovalev is worth 11M? i think he would be laughing all the way to the bank. the rangers didnt give him that much, an seeing as how the likes of federov, who is a better all around player, got 8M, i think you're really need to rethingk giving him that much.

2) i fail to see how 5.5M a year is bad at all. maybe he is worth a lot more cause of ridiculus inflation with the likes of roenick and Turgeon, but realistically, 5.5M ist exactly cheap. hell, hatcher only got about 6M and he was asking for about 9M and has been an all star for how many years now?

3) DONT SAY ANYTHING! god, at least have the decency not to lie to the fans about wanting to stay. just admit youwant the money. is it that hard? its not like everyone doesnt see through it in the first place.

1) No thats not what I said. I said what if he overvalued himself and asked for 11 million. It would be an initial offer you know asking for more then hes worth. You said it just a part of bargaining.

2) I totally agree 5.5 million is good money. Im arguing based on what other players make and what they would have given him in arbitration 5.5 million is too low.

3) I wish they wouldnt say anything. Then it couldnt be held against them. If everyone sees right through them why does it matter? You know it comes down to money, I know it, he knows, it she knows it. There are just some things you dont say because it is of no benefit. Its one of those little white lies you tell that most people know is a lie but you would rather hear that then the truth.

The Tang
11-11-2003, 02:25 PM
3) I wish they wouldnt say anything. Then it couldnt be held against them. If everyone sees right through them why does it matter? .
becasue it is like rubbing salt in a wound. "yeah i love playing her, the fans are great, but im going to leave regardless" plus its like giving false hope, which is just plain wrong