Patrik Elias

Missionhockey
11-01-2003, 12:05 PM
So now that we are in 10 games into the season Elias has put up a point per game (2g 8a;10p). Express your thoughts about him and if you still wish him to be traded.

NJDevils#4
11-01-2003, 12:16 PM
I thought he should have been traded a while ago, but i'm glad he's starting to click with Gomez and Gionta. Hopefully that will turn into a nice 1st line. If he continues to put up a point a game, no complaints from me.

Jared Ramsden
11-01-2003, 12:26 PM
I never really wished for him to be traded to begin with, and it's nice to see him at a point a game clip in the early going. He has always seemed to be stiffiled offensively since his 96 point year, but I think we all know that he is capable of much more and hopefully what he is doing now will last the whole season....

Missionhockey
11-01-2003, 01:08 PM
I never really wished for him to be traded to begin with, and it's nice to see him at a point a game clip in the early going. He has always seemed to be stiffiled offensively since his 96 point year, but I think we all know that he is capable of much more and hopefully what he is doing now will last the whole season....

Yeah I feel the same, but Elias is my favorite player so I'm not going to comment ;)

Nikkowar
11-01-2003, 01:11 PM
Here's hoping Eli has a nice season :rolly:

Tao Jones
11-01-2003, 02:12 PM
I'll happily eat crow on trading Eli, I'd still prefer him being dealt before Gomez for youth and $ reasons. I would still like to see Patrik's goal output increase. We have plenty of playmaking assist guys. His overall play was never a question in my mind, it was chemistry and learning to excel w/o the "A"-line, that gave me cause for concern. He draws enough attention to open up ice for his linemates, and chances for the other lines to score. Good to see Gio benefitting from playing on his opposite wing.

Unthinkable
11-01-2003, 02:58 PM
So far so good. He's playing a whole lot better then I expected him to along with Scott Gomez. The chemistry between them no longer looks the same as it was for most of last season where it was pretty rough. I wanted the Devils to give Elias half a season or so before evaluating a move with either him or Gomez to shore up bigger weaknesses and still do. Can't really nitpick and criticize his play to date and the same can be said of Scott Gomez through 1/8th of the regular season schedule. Right now there is no real reason to tear up whats working, but keep in mind Lou will have to make some decisions with regards to cutting the payroll which will likely involve Elias as an ex-Devil.

I Hate Tie DOMI
11-01-2003, 08:59 PM
There was a point in time when I thought trading him would be a good idea, but he is putting up points again so I am back on his bandwagon. Gomez on the other hand needs to go and soon. It makes me mad to see him play out there and I don't know why. It just does.

Niedermayer21
11-01-2003, 11:04 PM
Both Gomez and Elias should be producing more points than they are. But they are the best we have right now and unless we can get a player, or players who are better offensively while still being able to play solid defense, there is no reason to trade either one of them. If Lou gets an offer he can't refuse, he'll make the deal. Obviously, he hasn't.

BTW, anyone still want to trade Scott Niedermayer? ;)

Missionhockey
11-02-2003, 05:47 AM
I don't understand trading him to cut payroll. He is the teams leading scorer and has been for the past few years. It makes no sense to trade him who is such a vital part of the team right now. At his price tag its a bargain for his type of skill. I don't want to see this man traded unless it has anything to do with his play plain and simple.

Unthinkable
11-02-2003, 12:14 PM
Patrik Elias is less vital to this team winning games then players like Brodeur, Stevens, Niedermayer, Langenbrunner, and Madden regularly were last season. I'd even go so far as to say guys like Pandolfo and Stevenson contributed more consistently to team wins then Elias did in 2002-2003. Do I want to see him dealt just for the sake of changing things up right now? No. But lets be realistic here when looking at 2 straight seasons of vastly declining offensive production, huge +/- drops, and further declining special teams numbers. Yes, I know - no Arnott and no Sykora makes things look quite a bit more disappointing numbers-wise, but you and I both know that Patrik Elias can do a whole helluva lot better then 28 goals irregardless of who his center is. His late season surge made things look a lot rosier then they truly were after all the repeated slumps he couldn't shake.

His offense can be replaced either with two new players combined or one quality winger putting up similar numbers to his. 55 points gets you Jason Blake from last season if you're wondering if suitable replacements exist out there. Elias' production numbers which showed him leading the team last year are actually a little bit misleading in that Jamie Langenbrunner had a slightly better point per game ratio with 3 fewer games played. Trading Elias to cut payroll is simple business economics. I realize you like him a lot and would hate to see him moved, but who else would you rather see moved this season (forget about players like Albelin and Stevens possibly retiring for a moment) to bring the payroll down to a number Lou can live with? One move and it frees up all kinds of cash.

Missionhockey
11-02-2003, 04:44 PM
I'll be the first to admit that last season Elias had trouble adjusting to his new linemates. However I don't believe it was all Elias's fault. The Devils have mostly second line talent and that hindered his production. I'm sorry but I don't see Scott having many 20 goal seasons and Marshall is equally as bad. The A-line was the first time Patrik got to play with 1st line talent and he broke out for 96 points. I don't see how Pandolfo, a man who is under-rated but he couldn't shut down top lines on his own, and Stevenson who is injured most of the time, is more important that the teams leading scorer the past 5 seasons. Elias is a playmaker first. I expect him to have numbers similar to Miroslav Satan last season.

Unthinkable
11-02-2003, 06:18 PM
I don't see how Pandolfo, a man who is under-rated but he couldn't shut down top lines on his own, and Stevenson who is injured most of the time, is more important that the teams leading scorer the past 5 seasons. Elias is a playmaker first. I expect him to have numbers similar to Miroslav Satan last season.

I'm talking about the 2002-2003 campaign and not the past 5 seasons though. Pandolfo and Madden formed arguably one of the best checking line duos in all of pro hockey last season continuing through 4 superlative rounds of playoff hockey. There is no official NHL stat documented anywhere that I'm aware of which allows us to verify the actual number of goals prevented exclusively by our checking line mind you, but I do feel its safe to venture an educated guess that this number would completely dwarf the 28 goals scored by Elias for comparisons sake if we focus exclusively on vital goal scoring/goal prevention tangibles for the team. Of those 28 goals which Elias scored last year, 4 of them were game winners and 1 was a game tying goal. 6 of the 28 (21%) came on the power play and none came shorthanded. We know for fact Elias had a direct impact on the team winning at least 4 games last year just in looking at these numbers alone. Probably safe to say he had a good hand in several more wins even though the numbers don't support what never showed up in the boxscores.

I contend that the play of Pandolfo - Madden - Stevenson / Langenbrunner had direct impacts on the team winning a whole lot more games as a unit then Elias did all season long playing on all different lines with all different teammates. I realize its somewhat fashionable by folks to regularly trivialize all the intangibles Turner Stevenson brings to the team and play up the always injured reputation he has, but check his stats from last season. He played in 77 games and played injured heroically through a huge portion of the playoffs before his body forced him to shut things down. If you have tapes still of game 1 from round 1 of the ECQF check this out: Turner Stevenson and Jamie Langenbrunner both established the tone for the entire Devils team in the Boston Bruins series from the moment the first puck was dropped with some spirited stickwork and big hits on guys like Nick Boynton in the corners.

Mike#16*
11-03-2003, 04:14 AM
Patrik Elias is less vital to this team winning games then players like Brodeur, Stevens, Niedermayer, Langenbrunner, and Madden regularly were last season. I'd even go so far as to say guys like Pandolfo and Stevenson contributed more consistently to team wins then Elias did in 2002-2003. Do I want to see him dealt just for the sake of changing things up right now? No. But lets be realistic here when looking at 2 straight seasons of vastly declining offensive production, huge +/- drops, and further declining special teams numbers. Yes, I know - no Arnott and no Sykora makes things look quite a bit more disappointing numbers-wise, but you and I both know that Patrik Elias can do a whole helluva lot better then 28 goals irregardless of who his center is. His late season surge made things look a lot rosier then they truly were after all the repeated slumps he couldn't shake.

His offense can be replaced either with two new players combined or one quality winger putting up similar numbers to his. 55 points gets you Jason Blake from last season if you're wondering if suitable replacements exist out there. Elias' production numbers which showed him leading the team last year are actually a little bit misleading in that Jamie Langenbrunner had a slightly better point per game ratio with 3 fewer games played. Trading Elias to cut payroll is simple business economics. I realize you like him a lot and would hate to see him moved, but who else would you rather see moved this season (forget about players like Albelin and Stevens possibly retiring for a moment) to bring the payroll down to a number Lou can live with? One move and it frees up all kinds of cash.


not resigning marshall would free 1.6mio, larionov gone another 1.5mio, stevens 7mio, albelin 1 mio but lou has to resign Neids and Madden and they cant afford to lose Elias!

Unthinkable
11-03-2003, 08:56 AM
not resigning marshall would free 1.6mio, larionov gone another 1.5mio, stevens 7mio, albelin 1 mio but lou has to resign Neids and Madden and they cant afford to lose Elias!

Thats the root of the problem here. Sadly this team lost a bunch of money despite winning the Stanley Cup and collecting all that extra revenue in the home game playoff gate receipts. Lou wants to cut payroll this season before we even get to talking about who comes back for next year. All the moves above focus on next year. Lou probably wants to cut at least 5 million from the payroll before we even get to this point imo just to allow for some additional breathing room with our current players looking for raises/extended contracts in addition to bringing in new blood. If Stevens comes back for another season losing Marshall, Larionov, and Albelin will be a small drop in the bucket dollars-wise compared with what could be done elsewhere. Lou has to really hedge his bets on whether or not he believes this is Scott Stevens' final year with regards to which moves he'll pull off and ignore this season.

jimmyc
11-05-2003, 06:48 AM
On a team that is always criticized for its lack of offense, why would you even think of trading the guy that leads the team in scoring every year? Elias is the team's most gifted offensive player and sacrifices his own stats for the sake of winning. He should be applauded not criticized.

The lack of offensive production is based on the team's philosophy. Elias is expected to play two-way hockey. He kills penalties and is not out there for all two minutes of the power play.

Put Elias on Colorado and he gets 100+ points. Replace Elias with these so-called big scorers on the Devils and they wouldn't come close to reaching their prior numbers. Jason Blake! Come on! That midget wouldn't reach the 30 point mark in NJ.

Stop the foolish talk already and appreciate what the Devils have. Elias is much better than his stats.

Missionhockey
11-05-2003, 12:03 PM
On a team that is always criticized for its lack of offense, why would you even think of trading the guy that leads the team in scoring every year? Elias is the team's most gifted offensive player and sacrifices his own stats for the sake of winning. He should be applauded not criticized.


This is what I'm trying to point out.

Unthinkable
11-05-2003, 12:41 PM
On a team that is always criticized for its lack of offense, why would you even think of trading the guy that leads the team in scoring every year? Elias is the team's most gifted offensive player and sacrifices his own stats for the sake of winning. He should be applauded not criticized.

I think its high time we face the very real possibilities that Elias could be dealt for one or two goal scorers that will provide the team with ~57 points a year plus for less money just by virtue of freeing up the payroll alone. Its a given someone will go this year. Many thought he'd be dealt last season. Very likely we'll see several players dealt over the course of the year paving the way for what this team will face in the offseason. Who else do we move to free up positive cashflow without impacting the core of the team to such a destructive degree? We can't ignore the Madden's and Niedermayer's of the world who will be looking to cash in big time at seasons end. Lou's not one to constantly ignore the long term ramifications of his decisions as other GM's sometimes fall victim to. I don't deny that Elias is the teams most gifted offensive player, but at the same time we can't turn a blind eye and give him a free pass for what transpired over much of last season when the team needed him most. I'm thrilled with what he's done so far this season, but lets attempt to be objective and realistic at the same time when playing the role of what would you do if you were GM.


The lack of offensive production is based on the team's philosophy. Elias is expected to play two-way hockey. He kills penalties and is not out there for all two minutes of the power play.

Put Elias on Colorado and he gets 100+ points. Replace Elias with these so-called big scorers on the Devils and they wouldn't come close to reaching their prior numbers. Jason Blake! Come on! That midget wouldn't reach the 30 point mark in NJ.

Stop the foolish talk already and appreciate what the Devils have. Elias is much better than his stats.

I liked watching Elias and Bicek killing penalties last year. I really did and its not lost on me that his defensive game has improved while his offensive game has really declined. Its not because the coaching staff or teammates have told him to shoot less and attempt to score fewer goals though. Burns had him briefly on the checking line with Pandolfo and Madden last season for two reasons in my mind. One to attempt to break him free of the endless scoring slumps (which also worked perfectly with Jamie Langenbrunner btw) and two to give Elias two guys that are the teams most prolific role models when it comes to guys playing excellent two way games with never a lapse in effort or intensity. Additionally, I think my point about Jason Blake missed its mark as it was merely a points-to-points comparison of two players doing similar jobs when all was said and done after 82 games. One guy had a breakout season which really stood out from his previous years. Another guy just barely managed to hit those numbers with a strong finish in the regular season after needing countless kicks in the ass to stop the head hung low, skate back to the bench angry, frustrated, disappointed, downtrodden ready to break my stick attitudes. I appreciate what Elias gives us by all means. I'm not here to criticise him just for the sake of nothing else better to do. Just want to see him hit his objectives in being the point a game player that he knows he is while he's still a member of this team.

Blackjack
11-05-2003, 01:07 PM
I'm talking about the 2002-2003 campaign and not the past 5 seasons though. Pandolfo and Madden formed arguably one of the best checking line duos in all of pro hockey last season continuing through 4 superlative rounds of playoff hockey. There is no official NHL stat documented anywhere that I'm aware of which allows us to verify the actual number of goals prevented exclusively by our checking line mind you, but I do feel its safe to venture an educated guess that this number would completely dwarf the 28 goals scored by Elias for comparisons sake if we focus exclusively on vital goal scoring/goal prevention tangibles for the team. Of those 28 goals which Elias scored last year, 4 of them were game winners and 1 was a game tying goal. 6 of the 28 (21%) came on the power play and none came shorthanded. We know for fact Elias had a direct impact on the team winning at least 4 games last year just in looking at these numbers alone. Probably safe to say he had a good hand in several more wins even though the numbers don't support what never showed up in the boxscores.

I contend that the play of Pandolfo - Madden - Stevenson / Langenbrunner had direct impacts on the team winning a whole lot more games as a unit then Elias did all season long playing on all different lines with all different teammates. I realize its somewhat fashionable by folks to regularly trivialize all the intangibles Turner Stevenson brings to the team and play up the always injured reputation he has, but check his stats from last season. He played in 77 games and played injured heroically through a huge portion of the playoffs before his body forced him to shut things down. If you have tapes still of game 1 from round 1 of the ECQF check this out: Turner Stevenson and Jamie Langenbrunner both established the tone for the entire Devils team in the Boston Bruins series from the moment the first puck was dropped with some spirited stickwork and big hits on guys like Nick Boynton in the corners.

I will agree that Madden and Langenbrunner had more of a direct impact than Elias during the regular season than Elias, but I don't think that Stevenson or Pandolfo did. I'm not trying to trivialize anyone's contributions, but Madden was successful with a number of left wings, including Pando, Brylin, and Gionta. Heck, Elias even played with Madden from time to time. Turner Stevenson is very important to the team, but what he contributes in a very diffrent way from Elias. Every team needs it's shutdown guys like Madden and Pandolfo, every team needs its grinders like Stevenson, and every team needs its scorers like Elias. As ebarassing as it is, he's our still our only first line calibure forward.

Unthinkable
11-05-2003, 01:27 PM
I will agree that Madden and Langenbrunner had more of a direct impact than Elias during the regular season than Elias, but I don't think that Stevenson or Pandolfo did. I'm not trying to trivialize anyone's contributions, but Madden was successful with a number of left wings, including Pando, Brylin, and Gionta. Heck, Elias even played with Madden from time to time. Turner Stevenson is very important to the team, but what he contributes in a very diffrent way from Elias. Every team needs it's shutdown guys like Madden and Pandolfo, every team needs its grinders like Stevenson, and every team needs its scorers like Elias. As ebarassing as it is, he's our still our only first line calibure forward.

You might be right about Turner Stevenson's net worth to the team vs. Patrik Elias' last season as its a difficult case to prove on Stevenson's behalf without any stats short of hits, blocked shots, and forced turnovers etc... I think its really easy for fans to ignore how effectively Stevenson can get under other players skins though and get them off their games. His job against the Boston Bruins in round one of the playoffs in particular was classic Turner Stevenson. Its not really an easy apples to apples comparison for me to make judging who was more vital to the teams success last season, but I still felt Elias let the team down with regards to being a consistently potent offensive threat moreso then Turner Stevenson ever did when it came time for him to fullfilling all his job duties to the T. Different job descriptions by all means where one guy executed everything perfectly and another one came up way short of general expectations. I hear you on how Madden seems to play well with anyone same as Sergei Brylin always has, but we cant deny that Pandolfo and Madden on the same line = way more shutting down of other teams top stars along with the very real threat to score the odd shorthander. Those two are magic together and should never ever be split up short of an absolute last resort contingency plan. If I had to pick two players from our offense who could play a flawless game together blindfolded, it would be Pandolfo and Madden hands down. As a tandem, they are immensely important to the team piling up win after win as illustrated best by the successful playoff run.

Missionhockey
11-05-2003, 06:05 PM
I think its high time we face the very real possibilities that Elias could be dealt for one or two goal scorers that will provide the team with ~57 points a year plus for less money just by virtue of freeing up the payroll alone. Its a given someone will go this year. Many thought he'd be dealt last season. Very likely we'll see several players dealt over the course of the year paving the way for what this team will face in the offseason. Who else do we move to free up positive cashflow without impacting the core of the team to such a destructive degree? We can't ignore the Madden's and Niedermayer's of the world who will be looking to cash in big time at seasons end. Lou's not one to constantly ignore the long term ramifications of his decisions as other GM's sometimes fall victim to. I don't deny that Elias is the teams most gifted offensive player, but at the same time we can't turn a blind eye and give him a free pass for what transpired over much of last season when the team needed him most. I'm thrilled with what he's done so far this season, but lets attempt to be objective and realistic at the same time when playing the role of what would you do if you were GM.



2 goal scorers that are cost maximum 5 million combined? Who and where do you think they'd be able to aquire these players from? IMO Elias has to stay until some of the teams better offensive prospects begin to fully develope. The team isn't trying to tear everything down and rebuild. Besides, if Niedermayer and/or Madden are asking too much then Lou would let them walk. I think he proved us that by letting Holik go.