Question bout Dustin from a Pens fan.

Hey all. Im a Pens fan and am SERIOUSLY NOT trying to start ANY ***** here but I had an honest question and wanted answers from those who follow the team closer than I do. I actually like the Kings ALOT (being from Cali myself). Is it just me or has Dustin Brown looked kinda out of place so far? I've watched about five or six Kings games and he just seems like he is outmatched. Maybe they want to give him a crash course or maybe I am just dead wrong here. It looks like he falls down an awful lot also. I understand that there are going to be many mistakes and adjustments but it seemed that his game could benefit from another year in juniors. Am I way off base? Anybody else have any thoughts?

Thanks and once again no disrespect intended cuz I think he is gonna be special some day.

Hey all. Im a Pens fan and am SERIOUSLY NOT trying to start ANY ***** here but I had an honest question and wanted answers from those who follow the team closer than I do. I actually like the Kings ALOT (being from Cali myself). Is it just me or has Dustin Brown looked kinda out of place so far? I've watched about five or six Kings games and he just seems like he is outmatched. Maybe they want to give him a crash course or maybe I am just dead wrong here. It looks like he falls down an awful lot also. I understand that there are going to be many mistakes and adjustments but it seemed that his game could benefit from another year in juniors. Am I way off base? Anybody else have any thoughts?

Thanks and once again no disrespect intended cuz I think he is gonna be special some day.

Those are reasonable observations.

I think if the Kings weren't so thin right now offensively, absolutely he'd be in Guelph. However, he's a big tough body in front of the net and has shown glimpses of real talent, so he stays. I think you're right, management has rationalized the decision in that he'll be indoctrinated against the league's best vs. mostly lesser players in the juniors. It's a debateable decision for sure (I'd have sent him back, personally), but it's been made. He stays.

I think it is the same as the Pens keeping MAF up. Both should be in juniors perfecting thier trade but are with their teams for the same reasons and both are showing signs that they belong in the NHL and sings that they could use another year or two down on the farm.

I think it is the same as the Pens keeping MAF up. Both should be in juniors perfecting thier trade but are with their teams for the same reasons and both are showing signs that they belong in the NHL and sings that they could use another year or two down on the farm.

In all honesty I dont think MAF has shown any signs he should have returned to juniors. I think his save% is the leagues best for goalies playing over five games. I believe it is a .942 which is incredible considering the defense in front of him. Honestly I dont think there is anything for him to do in juniors. He has more than shown that he belongs here.
I think that Dustin could use another year in junior but like I said i could be wrong. I really dont think Fleury needs that time and I really think he has more than shown he not only belongs here but has exceled so far.
I guess to me they arent staying with thier respective teams for the same reason. Fluery is here because he is our teams best goalie. Im not sure why Brown is up (even though he is quite a talent) but I think as the other poster said, injuries have alot to do with it maybe?
Comparing the reasons the two stayed in the bigs isn't fair I guess.

As I said though, the same argument could be made about Dustin. While he isn't scoring a ton he is doing everything else very well and is a solid asset to his team. At his age a year more in the minors would help his game in teh same way it would MAF's. It coudn't hurt it. It would give both of them time to dominate players closer to their age and give them an extra shot of confidence as well as giving them more time to develope their skills.

If we use your logic then the only reason MAF is with your team is because your team doesn't have a solid NHL veteran goalie to play in his stead. That is why you would send Dustin down and that is the same logic that you have to apply to MAF.

So, I guess that comparing the reasons that the two stayed in the bigs IS fair.

They are the same thing. One is a skilled forward who is playing well but is going to take time to become the star that he appears to be. The other is a skilled young goalie that is going to take time (and a much better team in front of him) to become the great goalie that he appears to be.

I could argue that by staying in the bigs that MAF could be doing real damage to his confidence and his career by having to face so many shots every night and by going into each game knowing that HE is the key go to guy that HAS to play great in order for his team to have even a chance to win.

In Browns case, he is playing the role of checking forward that is also being given time with our scoring lines. There really isn't any downside to his being here with the exception that he would score more (allot more) in the minors and that would be good for his head.

So, like I said, the comparison is more than fair it is dead on. There are good reasons for both of them to spend a year developing their young good skills but with both of these kids they seem to be rising to the occasion so there is no harm in them staying either.

As I said though, the same argument could be made about Dustin. While he isn't scoring a ton he is doing everything else very well and is a solid asset to his team. At his age a year more in the minors would help his game in teh same way it would MAF's. It coudn't hurt it. It would give both of them time to dominate players closer to their age and give them an extra shot of confidence as well as giving them more time to develope their skills.

If we use your logic then the only reason MAF is with your team is because your team doesn't have a solid NHL veteran goalie to play in his stead. That is why you would send Dustin down and that is the same logic that you have to apply to MAF.

So, I guess that comparing the reasons that the two stayed in the bigs IS fair.

They are the same thing. One is a skilled forward who is playing well but is going to take time to become the star that he appears to be. The other is a skilled young goalie that is going to take time (and a much better team in front of him) to become the great goalie that he appears to be.

I could argue that by staying in the bigs that MAF could be doing real damage to his confidence and his career by having to face so many shots every night and by going into each game knowing that HE is the key go to guy that HAS to play great in order for his team to have even a chance to win.

In Browns case, he is playing the role of checking forward that is also being given time with our scoring lines. There really isn't any downside to his being here with the exception that he would score more (allot more) in the minors and that would be good for his head.

So, like I said, the comparison is more than fair it is dead on. There are good reasons for both of them to spend a year developing their young good skills but with both of these kids they seem to be rising to the occasion so there is no harm in them staying either.


Of COURSE the reason Maffy is staying with the big club is that he is easily the best goalie we have. Thats what I said.

I think for me there is no question on ANYbody's minds as to whether or not Fluery can do VERY well at this level this year while there seems to be alot of question as to whether Brown can.


So in this aspect the comparison isnt fair. Fluery has already in his brief time showcased what he can bring and I would argue that he has been one of the three best NHL goalies this young season where as I cant say the same for Brown (as a forward of course).
Thats why I posed the question in this thread cuz I like the kid and the 5 or 6 times Ive seen him he SEEMED to me to look a little out of place where as Fluery has been one of the three stars in every game he has played.
The only fair comparison of the two is that they both have top end potential. Comparing the reasons why they are and the success they have at the present isnt fair at all.

I don't think MAF and DB can be compared at all. MAF is playing like a freaking all star. He is going to have a year similiar to Barrasso's (sp?) rookie season. I don't think that DB has looked out of place at all. Yes there are a few times when his play is clearly that of a rookie but for the most part he has been solid. He checks and agitates which I didn't know was part of his game when he was drafted. I think the points will come and his confidence will sky rocket and he will greatly benefit from playing with the big boys for a full year.

personally, i think DB is doing great. he's creating plays, playing physical, and crashing the net. he may not be a top player right off the bat like MAF is, but than he's also not touted to be a "franchise player" as MAF is. DB is a most probably top 6er with a decent chance to be a first liner. the fact that he has done this well this quickly as an 18 year old makes his chances of being a frist liner higher.

not sure what you mean by "out of place" but i've been impressed with him thusfar. of course, this is all keeping in mind that he is an 18 year old rookie and has a ways to go to learn the NHL game.

I think you should check his wins and losses as well as his GAA and a couple of his other stats before you say that the two aren't comparable.

They are both young players doing what they do for their teams. MAF is a great young goalie but to say he is one of the three best in the league is a joke. I also think that you/we are missing my point and that is in the big picture they are both rookies who are playing well enough to stay with their teams and could also both use time in the minors to work on the finer points of their games.

Is MAF a better young goalie prospect than Brown is a top six forward at this point in thier careers? IT DOESN'T MATTER. That isn't the question, the question is do either of them belong in the NHL and the answer is yes. The question is could both of them use developement time in the minors and the answer is yes.

I don't really care what you think about my opinion in that YOU asked for it. I gave it to you. If you like it, fine. If you want to debate it, fine. But I truly don't think that your opinion matters to me as I think you should feel the same way about mine.

I think both of these two great young players could do well staying with their teams or spending a year on the farm. MY OPINION. I think though that as usual that I will deffer to the experts and let THEM make the call. DT (one of the absolute best in the bus) thinks that Brown is ready, that is good enough for me.

OK?

Oh and I meant check his stats at the mid point of the season and then again at the end before you go comparing him to other great tenders. Thats all.

Oh and I meant check his stats at the mid point of the season and then again at the end before you go comparing him to other great tenders. Thats all.

Whoa there...like I said Im not trying to cause trouble. I just wanted an opinion as to whether or not Brown looked out of place by people who follow him closer than I do. I got that opinion and I respect it.
My only debate came in when you compared him to Fluery. Yes check his stats. He is the top goalie as far as SV% goes and he has a 1.95 G.A.A. He has a winning record on one of the worst teams in the league, and despite a lack of offensive production gave his team a chance to win. He has also faced more shots than any goalie. Hell he faced 48 against your Kings and only 2 got by him.
So I'll gladly look at his stats. Who knows what they will be mid season. Thats why I was careful to say so far and this YOUNG season.
Even your fellow posters have said comparing the two isnt right.
Once again, I respect your opinions on Dustin. As a Pens fan who has seen every one of his games, respect mine on Fluery.

i dont think anybody should compare fleury with brown. if anyone here on the kings board had a choice between the two, it wouldn't be a question of who'd they pick, but how fast it'd take them to choose fleury. fleury is great and has potential to be an elite goaltender in the league. brown is good and has potential to be a top player on a team. if i knew how good fleury was, i definately would have tried trading up to get him.

IMO, Brown already shown that he can do this and is not looking out of place. I also feel he's the best rookie to play on our NHL team in a loooong time.

i dont think anybody should compare fleury with brown. if anyone here on the kings board had a choice between the two, it wouldn't be a question of who'd they pick, but how fast it'd take them to choose fleury. fleury is great and has potential to be an elite goaltender in the league. brown is good and has potential to be a top player on a team. if i knew how good fleury was, i definately would have tried trading up to get him.

IMO, Brown already shown that he can do this and is not looking out of place. I also feel he's the best rookie to play on our NHL team in a loooong time.

Thanks for the response. That was all I was after to see what your opinion on Brown was. I didnt mean to turn this into a debate over Fluery and Brown.
Like I said I like Dustin and the Kings(alot) and have watched a few of thier games. I try to follow alot of the teams but mostly the Pens, Kings, Sharks and Yotes. If y'all have center ice try to catch a glimpse of the other Pens rookies and lemme know what you think (yeah I know Orpik is probably a bad word around here). I think both teams have a very bright future.

I don't see why Fluery and Brown can't be compared to each other. Are there rules regarding who can and can not be compared to each other? Of course, in many cases comparison doesn't make sense.
You can compare apples and oranges. They are both fruits.
You can compare Fluery and Brown. They are 2003 first round draft choices playing in their first year.

Why not compare them???

By starting both young player you run the risk of ruining their development. Once they pass that games played threshold there is no sending them back to the OHL. The risk is probably higher for Fluery just because he is being depended upon for more results right now. He is the only goalie on the ice. If he has a bad game, the team loses. If Dustin has a bad day he might be responsible for a goal off of a bad turnover, but he should be exposed to as much pressure as Fluery.
Fluery is doing great right now. He is surpassing expectations at this early stage and has carried his team at times.
Brown, I would say is meeting expectations at this point. He hasn't really lit the lamp out there, but he's competing and contributing on almost every shift. He IS making a difference out there and doing what is expected of him.

So, IMHO, both of them are doing enough to warrant staying at the NHL level. The risk in doing so, is probably higher in regards to Fluery than it is to Brown, just because what is being asked of him.

Finally skebo, someone who gets the big picture.

Both are good young players who could use more time in the minors and are doing well in the NHL. THAT is why you can compare them.

I don't see why Fluery and Brown can't be compared to each other. Are there rules regarding who can and can not be compared to each other? Of course, in many cases comparison doesn't make sense.
You can compare apples and oranges. They are both fruits.
You can compare Fluery and Brown. They are 2003 first round draft choices playing in their first year.

Why not compare them???

By starting both young player you run the risk of ruining their development. Once they pass that games played threshold there is no sending them back to the OHL. The risk is probably higher for Fluery just because he is being depended upon for more results right now. He is the only goalie on the ice. If he has a bad game, the team loses. If Dustin has a bad day he might be responsible for a goal off of a bad turnover, but he should be exposed to as much pressure as Fluery.
Fluery is doing great right now. He is surpassing expectations at this early stage and has carried his team at times.
Brown, I would say is meeting expectations at this point. He hasn't really lit the lamp out there, but he's competing and contributing on almost every shift. He IS making a difference out there and doing what is expected of him.

So, IMHO, both of them are doing enough to warrant staying at the NHL level. The risk in doing so, is probably higher in regards to Fluery than it is to Brown, just because what is being asked of him.


2 things. I said it isn't FAIR to compare the two reasons why they are still up here as I believe thier reasons are completely different.
Second, you CAN return a player to his junior team after the ten game deadline. The ten game deadline is when thier contract kicks in. You would have to pay them for the full first year of the contract but they can be returned to juniors at any time of the season.

Wow who would have guessed it would have turned into Fleury vs Brown instead of the original question.

Compare if you want. Brown will never have the impact on the Kings Fleury will have on the Penguins. Nobody would have selected Brown over Fleury. Its not really a fair comparison.

Suggesting Fleury and Brown are in the league for the same reasons is really a bad argument. Its not the same reason.

Brown is in the league because he is playing well. He has showed that he belongs so far. He hasnt been great but has been solid.

I still think its a bad idea to put top line prospects on 3rd/4th lines. I feel its much better to play 1st line minutes at a lower level then 4th line minutes at the highest level. Thats how you develop confidence. Playing someone with 4th line linemates and 4th line ice time is how you turn a 1st line prospect into 4th line grinder.

Brown could benefit from some more time in juniors.

Fleury is in the NHL because he is playing great. He would be starting for quite a few teams right now. He has been dominating at times.

For a young goalie they have to face shots and get playing time. So far Fleury is getting starting goaltender ice time. Same as with fowards I think goalies benefit from starting at a lower level then backing up at the highest.

At this point Fleury benefits nothing from palying in juniors. If he falters then hes got to go down.

When a guy is playing at an all star level you cant say he is in the league for the same reason as a guy who is playing well. Its not a fair comparison or a good one.

Maybe Fleurys stats will drop off. Maybe he wont be playing in Pittsburgh at the end of the season. But you can only argue based on what youve seen so far. And Fleury has been incredible Brown has been good.

Again, both are young players. Young players usually stay with their minor league teams until they show they have develped enough to come up the majors. Both of these young players have proven that they are capable of playing with their teams and providing a service for them.

NOBODY, has said that they will have the same impact on their teams. Ever. However, if you want to contend that point then lets take a look at it.

IF Maf goes on to be an "all star level" goalie someday then, based on his obvious talent he could be a very special one and have a big impact on his team.

IF Brown goes on to be an "all star level" someday then, based on his obvious talent he could be a very good player who could have a big impact on his team.

Is it fair though, to say that EITHER of them have a better chance at making it then the other one does at this point in their careers? NO. Not even a little. Facing the kind of shots and as many as he does at this level at this point in his career has just as good of a chance at ruining Fluery as it does making him. The Kings have had TWO highly touted goalies (one had just won the hobie baker and was thought to be the next jesus with a glove and the other was being compared to Roy and Esposito so often prior to his draft that his parents told the media to back off on it) and BOTH of them were ushered in to the league at a very young age for the exact same reasons that MAF was and both faced a ridiculous amount of rubber while playing behind awful teams just like MAF is and at the beggining of their major league careers they both looked like they might be incredible young goalies.

Time went on and the two of them slowly but surely developed bad habbits in thier styles in an attempt to survive at the NHL level. One is now a back up (and lucky to have that job) in the NHL and the other is just a memory.

What will set MAF apart from them for me and allot of others will be what happens to him a year or two down the road, NOT what he does this year. If things go the way they should with this kid then he should be fine and develope into one of the games best but, to say that since he has looked great so far that he is going to be an all star for the rest of his career is not only wildly optomistic, but it is also wrong. You just can't know. It would merely be an opinion based on what you "feel" to be correct.

The exact same arguement (change positions and the obvious comparisons) can be made about Brown. He is doing what he needs to do to help his team now but that doesn't mean he will be capable of playing the same way forever. That is a good thing because he SHOULD develope his game and play even better than he is. Will he? Not I, or you or anyone else knows. It is THE SAME thing with MAF.

It also needs to be pointed out AGAIN that the comparison ISN'T about these two players and their abilities. (even this has been said time and time again in this thread it seems to be missed each time it is said) They are being compared because they are TWO YOUNG TALENTED PLAYERS WHO ARE BEING GIVEN A SHOT AT THE NHL EARLY IN THEIR CAREERS BECAUSE THEY HAVE SHOWN THAT THEY CAN HANDLE IT. BOTH OF THEM COULD EITHER MAKE IT OR GET SENT DOWN AND SPEND THE NEXT BIT OF TIME DEVELOPING. NEITHER ARE LOCKS TO STAY WITH THE BIG CLUB. BOTH ARE ONLY GOING TO STAY WITH THIER NHL TEAMS AS LONG AS THEY SHOW THEY CAN HANDLE IT.

If Brown is sent down he would see ice time with people that he would be dominant over and that would be good for his developement.

If MAF was sent down he would be facing shots against people that he would be dominant over and that would help his confidence. That would be good for his career as well AND would give him all of the starts that he needs to face. etc etc etc.

The EXACT same rules apply.

I can't believe that we are actually debating the skills of the two indiviual players when that was NEVER the intent of the comparison. The more than obvious intent was to show that these two young players are being given a shot at the NHL that they have earned by their play and while both are good they could both also benefit from time in the minors. Both can do really well in the NHL too, but if they don't, it wouldn't kill them to spend a season or two on the farm.

Why is that so hard to understand? The "question" was by a "pensfan" about whether we felt that Brown belongs in the NHL or should spend time in the minors. I used the MAF situation to show that as long as Brown is playing well and developing his skills then he belongs here as much as MAF belongs on the Pens. I did that to help the person who asked the question unerstand what they were asking us. We feel as strongly about Brown as pens fans do about MAF and since both of them are young players with allot of talent who are starting their careers in the pros I made the comparison to support my opinion on Brown.

Somehow it got lamely and absolutely amazingly (to me anyway) turned into a comparison of the players skills, that IS NOT what I was doing (although I don't think that it is wrong as I have shown to do that, just not what I was doing). I hope that this clears up the answer I gave to the question.

We are all entiteled to our opinions and if you don't like someones answer then don't accept it. Although, if you are only asking the question looking for an answer that you are hoping to find then why ask the question? Be a man about it and come in and say "I am a fan of Browns but it looks to me like he should be in the minors still" and let it go.

So, in that spirit I will give a simple answer and make this go away.

Brown need time to develope skills.

Is that better?

;)

Again, both are young players. Young players usually stay with their minor league teams until they show they have develped enough to come up the majors. Both of these young players have proven that they are capable of playing with their teams and providing a service for them.

NOBODY, has said that they will have the same impact on their teams. Ever. However, if you want to contend that point then lets take a look at it.

IF Maf goes on to be an "all star level" goalie someday then, based on his obvious talent he could be a very special one and have a big impact on his team.

IF Brown goes on to be an "all star level" someday then, based on his obvious talent he could be a very good player who could have a big impact on his team.

Is it fair though, to say that EITHER of them have a better chance at making it then the other one does at this point in their careers? NO. Not even a little. Facing the kind of shots and as many as he does at this level at this point in his career has just as good of a chance at ruining Fluery as it does making him. The Kings have had TWO highly touted goalies (one had just won the hobie baker and was thought to be the next jesus with a glove and the other was being compared to Roy and Esposito so often prior to his draft that his parents told the media to back off on it) and BOTH of them were ushered in to the league at a very young age for the exact same reasons that MAF was and both faced a ridiculous amount of rubber while playing behind awful teams just like MAF is and at the beggining of their major league careers they both looked like they might be incredible young goalies.

Time went on and the two of them slowly but surely developed bad habbits in thier styles in an attempt to survive at the NHL level. One is now a back up (and lucky to have that job) in the NHL and the other is just a memory.

What will set MAF apart from them for me and allot of others will be what happens to him a year or two down the road, NOT what he does this year. If things go the way they should with this kid then he should be fine and develope into one of the games best but, to say that since he has looked great so far that he is going to be an all star for the rest of his career is not only wildly optomistic, but it is also wrong. You just can't know. It would merely be an opinion based on what you "feel" to be correct.

The exact same arguement (change positions and the obvious comparisons) can be made about Brown. He is doing what he needs to do to help his team now but that doesn't mean he will be capable of playing the same way forever. That is a good thing because he SHOULD develope his game and play even better than he is. Will he? Not I, or you or anyone else knows. It is THE SAME thing with MAF.

It also needs to be pointed out AGAIN that the comparison ISN'T about these two players and their abilities. (even this has been said time and time again in this thread it seems to be missed each time it is said) They are being compared because they are TWO YOUNG TALENTED PLAYERS WHO ARE BEING GIVEN A SHOT AT THE NHL EARLY IN THEIR CAREERS BECAUSE THEY HAVE SHOWN THAT THEY CAN HANDLE IT. BOTH OF THEM COULD EITHER MAKE IT OR GET SENT DOWN AND SPEND THE NEXT BIT OF TIME DEVELOPING. NEITHER ARE LOCKS TO STAY WITH THE BIG CLUB. BOTH ARE ONLY GOING TO STAY WITH THIER NHL TEAMS AS LONG AS THEY SHOW THEY CAN HANDLE IT.

If Brown is sent down he would see ice time with people that he would be dominant over and that would be good for his developement.

If MAF was sent down he would be facing shots against people that he would be dominant over and that would help his confidence. That would be good for his career as well AND would give him all of the starts that he needs to face. etc etc etc.

The EXACT same rules apply.

I can't believe that we are actually debating the skills of the two indiviual players when that was NEVER the intent of the comparison. The more than obvious intent was to show that these two young players are being given a shot at the NHL that they have earned by their play and while both are good they could both also benefit from time in the minors. Both can do really well in the NHL too, but if they don't, it wouldn't kill them to spend a season or two on the farm.

Why is that so hard to understand? The "question" was by a "pensfan" about whether we felt that Brown belongs in the NHL or should spend time in the minors. I used the MAF situation to show that as long as Brown is playing well and developing his skills then he belongs here as much as MAF belongs on the Pens. I did that to help the person who asked the question unerstand what they were asking us. We feel as strongly about Brown as pens fans do about MAF and since both of them are young players with allot of talent who are starting their careers in the pros I made the comparison to support my opinion on Brown.

Somehow it got lamely and absolutely amazingly (to me anyway) turned into a comparison of the players skills, that IS NOT what I was doing (although I don't think that it is wrong as I have shown to do that, just not what I was doing). I hope that this clears up the answer I gave to the question.

We are all entiteled to our opinions and if you don't like someones answer then don't accept it. Although, if you are only asking the question looking for an answer that you are hoping to find then why ask the question? Be a man about it and come in and say "I am a fan of Browns but it looks to me like he should be in the minors still" and let it go.

So, in that spirit I will give a simple answer and make this go away.

Brown need time to develope skills.

Is that better?

;)

Geez settle down. Dont make an implication or presumption that I came here thinking Brown SHOULDNT be in the NHL. I have absolutely no idea if he should or not. I havn't seen him in enough games to be able to make a fair and accurate judgement on his play.
I didnt KEEP asking any questions and any answers I get are just that...answers, by fans who have seen more of him than I have. I understand that you have a MUCH better view of Brown than I do but I didnt (and STILL dont) think it's accurate to say that they are in the bigs for the same reasons. And to ME (and I have stated repeatedly that I could be off) it seems that Brown is strugling while Fluery is shining.
I got the answers that I wanted concerning Brown. Thanks to you and all the other peopke who responded for that. As far as Fluery goes Ill make up my own mind having seen him in every game so far.
BTW did anybody see the Pens Toronto game? Fluery's worst star of the season. He let in four goals and two were shots from the point that I felt he COULD have stopped. He was screened but geez if he IS superman he should have had those :D

Now when are Deadie and Allison expected to return and who will get sent down if/when they do?

ugh.

ugh.


aargh.