Cairns or Butenschon?

What do you folks think?

How about keeping both? One is a seventh defender and is good at the role, the other is the teams best enforcer and not doing a bad job and is more noticable because Stirling is giving him some minutes.

Over 82 games they most likely will need everyone, including Timmander.

you should add martinek's name to that list and see the responses then....I would say most folks would rather see the two of the (carins and boots) play more than mart.

How's Butenschon doing anyway?

it all depends on the opponent. most nights carins and boots will not play in the same game. I do not mind either one playing. Unlike a lot of other people, i think having either one as a 6th defensemen is a bonus. Most 6th d-man have limited abilities and the isles need that situational toughness.

Wow, so far I am surprised. His policeman's role aside, this guy is the weakest D-man in my opinion. He let the Sens back in the game last night screening (almost running into) DP as he backed in on Alfresson's goal late in the 2nd. He's slow, can't skate and takes stupid penalties.

Believe me, I appreciate his physical presence against teams like the Leafs, but Boots should not be sitting for Cairns in my opinion.

How's Butenschon doing anyway?

He's averaging the same minutes as Cairns in 6 less games played. Last time I checked, Boots has been on the ice for just 1 goal against this season shorthanded vs. Pittsburgh in the 7-2 game.

Sven is a +4 and has 4 assists and is looking good in the games I watched.

Personally I would rather both butenschon & Cairns over Martinek. If we are playing against fast teams than Martinek should play, but other than that Martinek should sit, especially against the bigegr & more physcial teams.

I revived this poll from back in November. The poll results were 7-6 for Boots back then. How about now?

Milbury's plan was to upgrade this position with Karp. It should be noted that Martinek has improved quite a bit since then as well.

including Timmander.
And how will they get him from Philly?

And I think that Cairns still deserves to be playing. Butenschon scares me more than Cairns.

Boots :yo:
Cairns :banghead:

And I think that Cairns still deserves to be playing. Butenschon scares me more than Cairns.


I'm not jumping off Cairns' bandwagon because I was never on it.I posted last yr, that if it weren't for the fact that Cairns is such a good enforcer.I doubted he'd even be in the nhl.

You don't quit on a player you've gone with all season (and more) because he makes two egregious errors. Talk about sending a death message to the team.

Point is, no "messages" need to be sent, no one needs to be punished. In this sad age of overeaction and pointing fingers, Cairns is an easy scapegoat. He screwed up bigtime. Everyone, especially him, knows it.

Good players and teams rebound from adversity. Tanking on players at the first sign of trouble, especially veterans and especially now, is weak. Of course, more must be expected of Cairns and every other player on the team.

The issue of whether or not NYI needs to upgrade quality of depth on their backline was not addressed during the regular season by the Isles' GM (unless one considers Karpotsev's 7-day stay on Long Island "addressing" the issue ;) ). Perhaps it will be addressed in the off-season. Now is not the time, however.

Have faith, stay the course.

You don't quit on a player you've gone with all season (and more) because he makes two egregious errors. Talk about sending a death message to the team.

Point is, no "messages" need to be sent, no one needs to be punished. In this sad age of overeaction and pointing fingers, Cairns is an easy scapegoat. He screwed up bigtime. Everyone, especially him, knows it.

Good players and teams rebound from adversity. Tanking on players at the first sign of trouble, especially veterans and especially now, is weak. Of course, more must be expected of Cairns and every other player on the team.

Have faith, stay the course.

If the isles advanced and played a grittier,slower team,I'd want Sterling to put Cairns in.His lack of speed wouldn't be such a liability and they'd probably need an enforcer.Isles would be adjusting to the opponent.


before game one even started,I honestly did not expect Cairns to get much icetime in this series since he's such a bad skater and TB's speedy forwards are so hard to contain.

Crew, I've been skeptical of the Isles depth on D for three seasons now, and never believed in giving inferior players icetime, just to baby the minutes of the Isles top four, as I am convinced that playing KJ/Aucoin/Hamrlik/Janne 25-30 minutes a game, especially this time of the season, is sound strategy. The "pitchcount" mentality that is applied to limp-wristed prima donna pitchers in baseball does not translate to minutes for talented NHL players, who relish the work and typically play better the more they play. The Isles top 4 d are very talented. The rest are marginal.

And, I respect your take on this. But I really think that now is not the time to change horse midstream. In fact, I don't even think it will be much of a consideration for Stirling.

As for Cairns, he did play very little last night. It's what he did in the brief time he was on the ice that is the issue. ;)

I know I'm going to get abused for suggesting this, but this again comes back to the Jason Wiemer debacle. If you have Wiemer in the lineup, the need for a cementhead like Cairns becomes less significant. So, you can bench Cairns against a speedy team like Tampa, and not have to worry about dealing with the likes of Andre Roy, etc.

I know I'm going to get abused for suggesting this, but this again comes back to the Jason Wiemer debacle. If you have Wiemer in the lineup, the need for a cementhead like Cairns becomes less significant. So, you can bench Cairns against a speedy team like Tampa, and not have to worry about dealing with the likes of Andre Roy, etc.

Wiemer or no Wiemer?...Cairns would of played either way!

But I really think that now is not the time to change horse midstream. In fact, I don't even think it will be much of a consideration for Stirling.

As for Cairns, he did play very little last night. It's what he did in the brief time he was on the ice that is the issue. ;)


when the isles are going against an opponent who they know will play a very physical,very nasty game(leafs,rangers)..they'll scratch a player like Papineau,who does not play well against physical teams.

I don't see how making Cairns a healthy scratch against a speedy TB team,that Cairns has a lot of trouble with,is much different.

Isles would be playing the players who give them the best chance to win.

Sterling can't afford to worry about Cairns feelings.

when the isles are going against an opponent who they know will play a very physical,very nasty game(leafs,rangers)..they'll scratch a player like Papineau,who does not play well against physical teams.

I don't see how making Cairns a healthy scratch against a speedy TB team,that Cairns has a lot of trouble with,is much different.

Isles would be playing the players who give them the best chance to win.

Sterling can't afford to worry about Cairns feelings.

Well said Crew. I agree completely. :handclap:

Well said Crew. I agree completely. :handclap:

I hope that's the way Sterling sees it.

I'm not a psycholigst, and as one who accuses some posters of "over-analyzing" things too much at times, I need to be careful here.

But I disagree vehemently with looking at scratching Carins strictly from the perspective of its effect (or lackthereof) on the subject player. That's a bit myopic to my thinking. His teammates apparently (and predictably) has rallied around him. If Stirling benches him now, it risks alienating the team at a time when he can least afford to do so. Ask Peter Laviolette about that approach.

You and Darth refer to the Weimer waiving in regard to Cairns, but you pass over the detrimental effect the timing of that move had on the team. IMO, benching Cairns, clearly a popular team guy, at this point could very well result in the same response/reaction by the team.

Finally, your point about Cairn's shortcomings are not debatable. But who does NYI possess at this time who offers the upgrade in mobility? Sven?!?!?!?

Six of one, half dozen of the other. Pick your poison. Or whatever other cliche one wants to use to convey the false option that Cairns-for-Sven is.

I'm not a psycholigst, and as one who accuses some posters of "over-analyzing" things too much at times, I need to be careful here.

But I disagree vehemently with looking at scratching Carins strictly from the perspective of its effect (or lackthereof) on the subject player. That's a bit myopic to my thinking. His teammates apparently (and predictably) has rallied around him. If Stirling benches him now, it risks alienating the team at a time when he can least afford to do so. Ask Peter Laviolette about that approach.

You and Darth refer to the Weimer waiving in regard to Cairns, but you pass over the detrimental effect the timing of that move had on the team. IMO, benching Cairns, clearly a popular team guy, at this point could very well result in the same response/reaction by the team.

Finally, your point about Cairn's shortcomings are not debatable. But who does NYI possess at this time who offers the upgrade in mobility? Sven?!?!?!?

Six of one, half dozen of the other. Pick your poison. Or whatever other cliche one wants to use to convey the false option that Cairns-for-Sven is.


There is no law that says you have to dress six dmen a night. I'd dress the top four, and Martinek, and dress an additional forward instead (at least against Tampa). Cairns is a liability against speedy teams like Tampa and Ottawa.

for you again

20 Nov Islanders 2 - Lightning 3 no Boots
9 Dez Lightning 2 - N.Y. Islanders 5 Boots play 14:08 min E
16 March Islanders 3 - Lightning 1 Boots play 8:41 min E
21 March Lightning 0 - N.Y. Islanders 3 Boots play 12:01 min +1 1A

There is no law that says you have to dress six dmen a night. I'd dress the top four, and Martinek, and dress an additional forward instead (at least against Tampa). Cairns is a liability against speedy teams like Tampa and Ottawa.
forget cairns or butchenson , sign caldwell after saturdays game . he could be no worse then cairns and he would only be playing 8-10 mins a night .and the guy has size , and hes been playing big time hockey for the past month . he might be a spark , and he has a rocket from the point on the power play... and lord knows we need some power play goals

when the isles are going against an opponent who they know will play a very physical,very nasty game(leafs,rangers)..they'll scratch a player like Papineau,who does not play well against physical teams.

I don't see how making Cairns a healthy scratch against a speedy TB team,that Cairns has a lot of trouble with,is much different.

Isles would be playing the players who give them the best chance to win.

Sterling can't afford to worry about Cairns feelings.
Papineau had two goals against the Rangers and was one of the more effective Isles. He was not bad in the Tampa-Isles games either.

Eric Cairns I do not recall ever being a healthy scratch in his entire tenure here. He was not matched up against Martin St.Louis or Vinnie LeCavalier, he lost the puck to a fourth line player (Roy) with one goal and made a poor decision to skate in front of the net on the second goal.

I hope Stirling stays with him and I think he deserves the support. If not Butenschon should do a good job.

The Islanders did not lose a 3-2 or 2-1 game last night. As well as they played they did not score a goal. Cannot win without finishing some chances.

His teammates apparently (and predictably) has rallied around him. If Stirling benches him now, it risks alienating the team at a time when he can least afford to do so. Ask Peter Laviolette about that approach.

You and Darth refer to the Weimer waiving in regard to Cairns, but you pass over the detrimental effect the timing of that move had on the team. IMO, benching Cairns, clearly a popular team guy, at this point could very well result in the same response/reaction by the team.

Six of one, half dozen of the other. Pick your poison. Or whatever other cliche one wants to use to convey the false option that Cairns-for-Sven is.

Trots while it's not the fans choice(which poison do we want),but if i were Sterling,I'd sit Cairns after meeting with a few of the vet leaders(Peca,Aucoin,Snow),letting them know they need to quickly help halt any complaints/dissatisfaction with the move.

It's nice that Cairns' teammates respect him,have rallied around him,but the
Isles need to realize that the thrill of just making the playoffs has worn off for the fanbase and probably for the owners.If this group is unable to advance past the 1st round for the 3rd yr in a row,I expect we'll see some major roster moves this summer.

Papineau had two goals against the Rangers and was one of the more effective Isles. He was not bad in the Tampa-Isles games either.




against the rangers he had 2 goals,1 assist in 4 games,was +1,
against Philly he had 0 pts in 5 games,against Toronto he had 0 pts in 3 games.

also TB doesn't try to physically pound,intimidate it's opponents like Tor,Philly and the Rangers.

I'm not a psycholigst, and as one who accuses some posters of "over-analyzing" things too much at times, I need to be careful here.

But I disagree vehemently with looking at scratching Carins strictly from the perspective of its effect (or lackthereof) on the subject player. That's a bit myopic to my thinking. His teammates apparently (and predictably) has rallied around him. If Stirling benches him now, it risks alienating the team at a time when he can least afford to do so. Ask Peter Laviolette about that approach.

You and Darth refer to the Weimer waiving in regard to Cairns, but you pass over the detrimental effect the timing of that move had on the team. IMO, benching Cairns, clearly a popular team guy, at this point could very well result in the same response/reaction by the team.

Finally, your point about Cairn's shortcomings are not debatable. But who does NYI possess at this time who offers the upgrade in mobility? Sven?!?!?!?

Six of one, half dozen of the other. Pick your poison. Or whatever other cliche one wants to use to convey the false option that Cairns-for-Sven is.

Put Cairns in the game but keep him on the bench. The top 4 and Martinek can split the minutes, the team can't complain and Cairns saves some face. He's there to use if the game gets too physical.

YES YES YES THEY BENCHED CARINS :joker: :joker:

Pretty steady 6 minutes of hockey from Boots. I think the Isles should stick with him in this series. Cairns toughness may be needed if we get through TB.

I was more impressed by Radek Martinek's 8+ minutes. He made a great play on St. Louis who was just about gone on a breakaway in the 1st period.

If these two guys can spell our top four without making a mistake, then the Isles are in better shape than they were the two prior years against the Sens and Leafs.

forget cairns or butchenson , sign caldwell after saturdays game . he could be no worse then cairns and he would only be playing 8-10 mins a night .and the guy has size , and hes been playing big time hockey for the past month . he might be a spark , and he has a rocket from the point on the power play... and lord knows we need some power play goals exactly what i said , sign this kid and give him 8-10 mins , some powerplay time .he has a rocket on da point..... very smart player who knows the right time to pinch. forget bridgeport, we need him up with the "A" TEAM....

Maybe they should give Cairns some time playing forward. Put him out with Blake and Bates, who make up for his lack of speed. Of course this would only be against the more physical teams.

:dunno:

Put Cairns in the game but keep him on the bench. The top 4 and Martinek can split the minutes, the team can't complain and Cairns saves some face. He's there to use if the game gets too physical.

(1) "holding" a bench spot in the playoffs makes zero sense when you can dress a serviceable player instead;

(2) "if the game gets too physical" - this series will not get to that point. TB must rely on THEIR game and physical is not a core characteristic.

But I disagree vehemently with looking at scratching Carins strictly from the perspective of its effect (or lackthereof) on the subject player. That's a bit myopic to my thinking. His teammates apparently (and predictably) has rallied around him. If Stirling benches him now, it risks alienating the team at a time when he can least afford to do so.

Of course the players rallied around Cairns. They're decent people. What else were they gonna do? Kick the guy while he's down?

That being said, the players aren't idiots either. If a player is a liability under certain circumstances (a slow Cairns vs. a speedy TB team), they're not gonna take issue with lineup changes that remedy problems. Everyone on that team knows that Cairns is a decent player and a good guy, but they all know he's a liability against TB.

As many posters mentioned out before me I think Cairns is very solid against bigger and mroe aggressive teams but not against TB. They're not the same physichal threat around the net like the Flyers are for example.
And Cairns shouldn't be scratched for a single game during the regular season, he's more emotional than the rest of team combined.