Mike Keenan hasta go.

jacksheit
11-06-2003, 08:59 AM
Thats it! He hasta go now! Our record is terrible! I dont care that i like him.
Is there any rumors on him being fired?
Is there any way WE could get him fired?

I just dont understand how such a hard ass cant motivate this team

PantherboyHTR
11-06-2003, 09:50 AM
Thats it! He hasta go now! Our record is terrible! I dont care that i like him.
Is there any rumors on him being fired?
Is there any way WE could get him fired?

I just dont understand how such a hard ass cant motivate this team
There are rumors from all sites that Keenan is as good as gone. There is some many they are even coming out of my :moon: , lol

Really I think it's time for this to end. We need a different coach. But this is old talk so...

Acadmus
11-06-2003, 10:30 AM
Really I think it's time for this to end. We need a different coach. But this is old talk so...

Yeah, but it's still relevant.

I've taken the stance of keeping Keenan for quite a while, as I think some of his tactics have been good and he's certainly been good for Olli Jokinen, Jay Bouwmeester and even Nate Horton. But after last night's game against L.A...

I still blame the players for failing to respond. They can't just keep deciding they're not going to play well if they don't like the coach. But you also can't keep replacing the whole team to keep the coach happy. The Panthers have tried it both ways for 5 years now, with nearly the whole team turning over about twice now, and four coaches. Something's gotta give, and in this case it appears it's the fans.

Cohen tried to end the cycle by giving Keenan a long contract, but it's obvious he can't get results out of a whole team, just certain individuals. As such, unless he can build his own team with those individuals (i.e. his '94 Rangers and his '96 Blues), he just doesn't get any results.

What's convinced me now that he must go was L.A. quickly jumping up to a 3 goal lead last night. Luongo had been benched for two games. He should have been angry at losing his spot even short term, and should have been ready to go. If he's on top of his game, he finds a way to stop those early shots. I think he was off because he was concentrating on Keenan, not on the game. I don't buy the excuse that it was all the penalties.

The sad thing is, there's no good coaches left out there right now except Jack Adams-winner-turned-pariah Ted Nolan, and we all know nobody's going to hire him (since nobody ever does).

I just wish the players could find the responsibility to start doing some of the coaching for themselves. It doesn't take a genius to know you have to shoot before you can score.

PanthersFan5Mezei
11-06-2003, 11:05 AM
Thats it! He hasta go now! Our record is terrible! I dont care that i like him.
Is there any rumors on him being fired?
Is there any way WE could get him fired?

I just dont understand how such a hard ass cant motivate this team

Keenan isn't the problem...IT'S OUR TEAM! If you are looking to win now, you're following the wrong team...NO COACH would change that.

Heimy
11-06-2003, 11:05 AM
While I'm all for a new coach I don't believe Luongo had any real chance of stopping any of those 3 goals last night.



As for a suitable coaching replacement, how about Alain Vigneault?

He deserves serious consideration based on the job he did a couple of years back when the Habs were leading the league in mangames lost to injury. He coached a hot young goaltender and basically half an AHL squad (sound familar?) to a playoff spot. He might be a good choice for this young team.

When Vigneault took that Habs team to the playoffs I was both surprised and impressed. I had doubted their anthenticity thruout that season because (I thought and still do) they had less talent on that squad than any playoff club I could remember in some time. When they made it I considered it quite a feat. The fact that since Vigneault was fired the Habs have done far worse seems like a confirmation of his ability to get a team to overachieve.

jacksheit
11-06-2003, 11:21 AM
This team has so many good young prospects. but they dont score, now, if the players obviously have talent, its the coaches fault they dont produce. Jokenin, Kozlov, bure, hus, van ryn. these guys r all top scoring players. they r good players. but only 1 or 2 produce consistantly. thus its the coaches fault. although i would like to see a trade for a top line RW.
this team doesnt shoot. coach cant make them. his fault
they have great big d-men. but their defence sucks. his fault
Hus and Bure dont produce. coaches fault

It IS time for a change.
but alas i dunno who could replace him.

kidchrome
11-06-2003, 11:25 AM
Thats it! He hasta go now! Our record is terrible! I dont care that i like him.
Is there any rumors on him being fired?
Is there any way WE could get him fired?

I just dont understand how such a hard ass cant motivate this team
you guys should keep keenan....fire dudley.....and lose about 5 europeans from this team. Be patient ...this team will be good....real good.

sting_fan
11-06-2003, 11:31 AM
I, like Heimy, am all for a coaching change. But, I'm not about to blame the coach for the lackluster play of his players. There is only so much he can do.

Do I believe Keenan often mismanages his assets? You better believe I do. But, if he gives a guy 20+ minutes of ice time and they fail to produce, you can't go off blaming the coach.

GudVibransons
11-06-2003, 11:32 AM
I'm definitely for a coaching change. Iron Mike can talk all he want about intensity, but even if the players try to be intense, without a system in place, they just end up getting confused. They don't know what they are doing out there. At least with a system, these guys would know what they were doing. I have never seen a team so terrible at breaking out of their own zone, getting the puck back in the zone, and moving up the ice. This team has consistently tried rushing to the opposing zone alone or making cross ice passes to guys who aren't ready, thus turning the puck over and killing the play, or worse.

Let's not forget the psychological effect Keenan has had on this team. Huselius, who has all the skill in the world, is wilting under his constant mind games. Same goes for Cullen, Weiss, Bednar, Hagman, and the list goes on.

Larry Robinson is available. So is John torchetti, Alain Vigneault, Kevin Constantine (I think), Ted Nolan, and probably some good coaches in the minors or juniors who could do well with a chance.

Captain8
11-06-2003, 11:37 AM
Vigneault isn't a bad choice. Similarly, I think Ftorek was victimized by two trigger-happy GMs, but he's a good systems guy; it was he, not so much Robinson, who modernized the Devils' approach.

Robinson would be my first choice, but he has made it known that he won't settle for less, and with the Panthers there is a big credibility issue that others would be wary of as well.

And there is also an issue with Dudley. The proper course should allow him to name the coach if he stays on as GM. We can guess that would mean Torchetti or Ludzik.

Some assistants around the league are worthy of consideration, but they won't be available until the offseason.

And we know about Keenan's contract.

So there are complications.

PanthersRule96
11-06-2003, 12:48 PM
Torchetti is a great coach as he is a guy with great skills for development. There is absolutely no reason why Huselius can't score 30 goals. Keenan is trying to change his game and the only way these players are effective is if thier used properly. Keenan plays favorites as he was so in love with Horton before the preseason even started as well as Stewart, but he dislikes Weiss, Hagman, Huselius, Cullen, and Bure (to a lesser extent) and all of them can score 20 plus goals. Keenan is a very tough coach. Players like Jokinen who have been through long struggles and Novoseltsev, would benefit from playing under him. Everywhere you look, he started a team out, got a player going(jokinen) and then was fired and the team was awesome after that. Personally I'd rather see 30 goals from each of Bure, Huselius and Kozlov as well as Weiss than seeing just Olli score 35 and Huselius a meager 20. Bure has worked treamendously hard and is going to prove he's worth his money. Once he gets one, they'll keep on coming. I think the last time he scored was Nov. 16, 2002, so Valeri is ready to put this awful year behind him and start playing like he can. Our skilled Europeans(half our team) will never excel under Keenan. Huselius may very well ask to be traded soon. When your asked to be something you're not, it messed up your whole game. Huselius will never be a Joe Thornton, but could be a less physical Daniel Alfredsson type. If we fired Keenan now, you'd have players reach and approach thier potential aside from Jokinen and Horton. It's time for a change, no questions asked as this team is heading in the opposite direction and deeper into an abyss. Even if we were to get Ovechkin, Keenan would probably misuse his too as he is a talent waster.

c-carp
11-06-2003, 12:58 PM
Keenan takes hardass to a whole new level, I thought when the Blues hired him that it was good because I thought they needed a taskmaster but he has no method to his madness anymore. Sometime after he won that Cup in NY he lost his mind, I dont know how he keeps getting jobs on his accomplishments in Philly, Chicago and NY. :dunno:

c-carp
11-06-2003, 01:01 PM
Yeah, but it's still relevant.

I've taken the stance of keeping Keenan for quite a while, as I think some of his tactics have been good and he's certainly been good for Olli Jokinen, Jay Bouwmeester and even Nate Horton. But after last night's game against L.A...

I still blame the players for failing to respond. They can't just keep deciding they're not going to play well if they don't like the coach. But you also can't keep replacing the whole team to keep the coach happy. The Panthers have tried it both ways for 5 years now, with nearly the whole team turning over about twice now, and four coaches. Something's gotta give, and in this case it appears it's the fans.

Cohen tried to end the cycle by giving Keenan a long contract, but it's obvious he can't get results out of a whole team, just certain individuals. As such, unless he can build his own team with those individuals (i.e. his '94 Rangers and his '96 Blues), he just doesn't get any results.

What's convinced me now that he must go was L.A. quickly jumping up to a 3 goal lead last night. Luongo had been benched for two games. He should have been angry at losing his spot even short term, and should have been ready to go. If he's on top of his game, he finds a way to stop those early shots. I think he was off because he was concentrating on Keenan, not on the game. I don't buy the excuse that it was all the penalties.

The sad thing is, there's no good coaches left out there right now except Jack Adams-winner-turned-pariah Ted Nolan, and we all know nobody's going to hire him (since nobody ever does).

I just wish the players could find the responsibility to start doing some of the coaching for themselves. It doesn't take a genius to know you have to shoot before you can score.That 96 Blues team probably doesnt make the Playoffs if they dont get Gretz and then the Mighty Keenan ran Him out of town so I wouldnt throw the 96 Blues in that group. That team was horrible pre Gretzky.

c-carp
11-06-2003, 01:02 PM
I'm definitely for a coaching change. Iron Mike can talk all he want about intensity, but even if the players try to be intense, without a system in place, they just end up getting confused. They don't know what they are doing out there. At least with a system, these guys would know what they were doing. I have never seen a team so terrible at breaking out of their own zone, getting the puck back in the zone, and moving up the ice. This team has consistently tried rushing to the opposing zone alone or making cross ice passes to guys who aren't ready, thus turning the puck over and killing the play, or worse.

Let's not forget the psychological effect Keenan has had on this team. Huselius, who has all the skill in the world, is wilting under his constant mind games. Same goes for Cullen, Weiss, Bednar, Hagman, and the list goes on.

Larry Robinson is available. So is John torchetti, Alain Vigneault, Kevin Constantine (I think), Ted Nolan, and probably some good coaches in the minors or juniors who could do well with a chance.Keenan plays ming games wherever he goes, that is the main thing I started to hate him for when he coached the Blues. If you dont fire him that isnt going to change.

Coolburn
11-06-2003, 01:46 PM
I think we all knew Keenan's background coming in and knew there was little chance he would last very long. In fact, he's lasted longer than many expected. But I think the problem is he doesn't report to the GM and usually his firings occurred when he butted heads with the GM. Our owner would have to fire him and I just don't see that happening. I agree that it seems about time for Keenan to go but I'm not sure who should replace him. Ludzik wouldn't be a bad replacement as he is a defensive coach but knows how to utilize his players' talents. I wouldn't mind seeing Robinson or Ftorek here either. Nolan I would shy away from more than anyone else. I think Luongo would flourish under Vigneault and he could be the Panther equivalent to Marlins GM Jack McKeon. Thats not to say he could get us the Stanley Cup but at least get these guys to believe that they have the talent and ability to get to the playoffs.

jacksheit
11-06-2003, 05:23 PM
Just look what atlanta's new coach has done for them!
From worst team to pro star team

PanthersRule96
11-06-2003, 05:28 PM
Yeah, but Atlanta's progress is mostly because of the #1 by far best and most exciting player in the league. He could win the Richard and Art Ross quite easily. No, I'm not talking about Majesky......

Kovalchuk has the ability to make any team a contender regardless and I actually think he could reach 70 goals which would be quite a feat. I think he will be a better scorer than Thornton and will be the best #1 pick of the last 10 years.

PanthersRule96
11-06-2003, 05:30 PM
BTW, Ilya has like more goals than like our whole team combined :shakehead

SuperUnknown
11-06-2003, 05:54 PM
As for a suitable coaching replacement, how about Alain Vigneault?

He deserves serious consideration based on the job he did a couple of years back when the Habs were leading the league in mangames lost to injury. He coached a hot young goaltender and basically half an AHL squad (sound familar?) to a playoff spot. He might be a good choice for this young team.


Vigneault never brought Montreal to the playoffs. Under Vigneault's helm, the Montreal Canadiens went three (or maybe four) years without making the playoffs. Vigneault did prefer Hackett over Theodore too.

The last two coaches that brought Montreal to the playoffs were Michel Therrien (with a hot Theodore and a 1st center Yanic Perreault) and Mario Tremblay (before Vigneault).

Heimy
11-06-2003, 06:10 PM
Vigneault never brought Montreal to the playoffs. Under Vigneault's helm, the Montreal Canadiens went three (or maybe four) years without making the playoffs. Vigneault did prefer Hackett over Theodore too.

The last two coaches that brought Montreal to the playoffs were Michel Therrien (with a hot Theodore and a 1st center Yanic Perreault) and Mario Tremblay (before Vigneault).


Thanks Smail. Wanna hear something funny? I asked for opinions of A.V. over at the Habs board and mentioned his taking the Habs to the playoffs yet no one corrected me there. I sure got a lot of very positive replies though! :p

Clash*
11-06-2003, 06:38 PM
Here's a thought, random at that but, for a coach to replace Keenan. Bryan Trottier. Why you ask? Well, part of why he was hired in New York was due to his work in Colorado with Bob Harltey and his ability to coach the powerplay to work like few could. He might help jump start the offense, which more than anything we need right now. Hell, even if he's not the head, maybe he could be brought in as an assistant.

SuperUnknown
11-06-2003, 06:44 PM
Thanks Smail. Wanna hear something funny? I asked for opinions of A.V. over at the Habs board and mentioned his taking the Habs to the playoffs yet no one corrected me there. I sure got a lot of very positive replies though! :p

Vigneault was a popular coach among the fans. However, he did drive some players out of town (Recchi said he would not play another season with Montreal, Scott Thornton was penned by Vigneault as a fighter only and penalized whenever he tried playing any offensive game, etc).

He also overplayed Hackett over a young hot Theodore and missed the playoffs barely.

He went with the St-Louis Blues after and convinced them to bring in one of his favorite player (Christian Laflamme) who didn't really pan out. He was never offered another job at the AHL or NHL level after that.

GudVibransons
11-06-2003, 07:21 PM
Trottier isn't a bad choice. It would have been better for all involved if he would have joined a young team instead of the Rangers. I can't believe it took this long to think of him.

I believe Curt Fraser is out there. He didn't have much of a chance with the crappy team that was the Thrashers. Still, of all the candidates, I believe the most likely candidate to get picked is John Torchetti. Still, who knows how the coaching situations will shake out over the year. Maybe somebody good will become available, like Barry Trotz, who has done an admirable job with Nashville, who have lacked the game breaking scorer to put them over the top ion most games.

BTW, this is a little off topic, but, what's the latest on Paul Laus? It was rumored he was going to be an assistant or something around the time of training camp, and he hasn't been heard from since.

m2k2p
11-06-2003, 07:30 PM
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/hockey/panthers/sfl-panthersx07nov07,0,3539384.story?coll=sfla-sports-panthers interesting article. Keenan was on the ice for practice and worked them really hard.

Desert Panther
11-06-2003, 08:33 PM
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/hockey/panthers/sfl-panthersx07nov07,0,3539384.story?coll=sfla-sports-panthers interesting article. Keenan was on the ice for practice and worked them really hard.

It's about damn time..

IceKatsRHot
11-06-2003, 09:11 PM
It certainly is about time...

I also hope every Panther fan will agree with me when I say this if you do not agree then that will only lead me to believe your into S&M...

After this practice Keenan has put the Panthers through and if they show no, that means none, signs of improvement on any level in their own individual games and team game, then Mike Keenan should no longer be the coach of this team..

Point being made, why would this team ever respond to him if they dont after being put through such hell of a practice...

I think I have made my point, agree or disagree, its your loss

p.s. before I get bashed, if they Panthers do respond, then great!.. I say keep him as coach, I'm only speaking of if they do not respond

Mike8
11-06-2003, 11:07 PM
Thanks Smail. Wanna hear something funny? I asked for opinions of A.V. over at the Habs board and mentioned his taking the Habs to the playoffs yet no one corrected me there. I sure got a lot of very positive replies though! :p

I'm fairly certain Vigneault did bring the Habs to the playoffs against the Penguins. Let me look up on that.

EDIT: Habs did make the playoffs in Vigneault's first year coaching (97-98). Montreal beat the favoured Penguins in the first round then were beaten by Buffalo.

That was the year Andy Moog was brought in to Montreal. Vigneault had done a very good job coaching that Hab playoff club, and had a very strong gameplan to neutralize Jagr.

Mike8
11-06-2003, 11:21 PM
Recchi said he would not play another season with Montreal

That had more to do with some bitter arbitration hearings he had. I never saw any evidence of Recchi getting along poorly with Vigneault. You are right with Scott Thornton though. He was poorly casted in Montreal.

patastrophe
11-06-2003, 11:49 PM
While I'm all for a new coach I don't believe Luongo had any real chance of stopping any of those 3 goals last night.



As for a suitable coaching replacement, how about Alain Vigneault?

He deserves serious consideration based on the job he did a couple of years back when the Habs were leading the league in mangames lost to injury. He coached a hot young goaltender and basically half an AHL squad (sound familar?) to a playoff spot. He might be a good choice for this young team.

When Vigneault took that Habs team to the playoffs I was both surprised and impressed. I had doubted their anthenticity thruout that season because (I thought and still do) they had less talent on that squad than any playoff club I could remember in some time. When they made it I considered it quite a feat. The fact that since Vigneault was fired the Habs have done far worse seems like a confirmation of his ability to get a team to overachieve.

i thought that was michel therrien? hes coaching the baby pens.

vigneualt may have coached a habs playoff team, but not one that featured a hot young goalie, unless a thirty or so year old jeff hackett is hot and young, i believe he was their last playoff goalie before theo.

patastrophe
11-06-2003, 11:55 PM
Vigneault never brought Montreal to the playoffs. Under Vigneault's helm, the Montreal Canadiens went three (or maybe four) years without making the playoffs. Vigneault did prefer Hackett over Theodore too.

The last two coaches that brought Montreal to the playoffs were Michel Therrien (with a hot Theodore and a 1st center Yanic Perreault) and Mario Tremblay (before Vigneault).

great.

i posted my vigneault thing BEFORE i saw this post.

damn i hate premature e-post-alation. :blush:

patastrophe
11-07-2003, 12:08 AM
I believe Curt Fraser is out there. He didn't have much of a chance with the crappy team that was the Thrashers.

hartley's thrashers are only two or three players different than fraser's thrashers. savard i think, majesky, hurme, thats about all i can think of. and i think savard might have been there before fraser got canned, and didnt start to produce til hartley came in. lets also keep in mind that hartley's thrashers are performing at this level without their BEST player-heatly. fraser's record speaks for itself.

i dont know about trottier...i dont think he got a fair shake in ny, but he didnt prove himself either.

we are dysfunctional enough without ted nolan.

ditto for ftorek.

robinson probably wouldnt touch this job with a 20 foot cattle prod, and i dont know if hes enough of a systems guy to make it work here.

torchetti probably wouldnt be a half bad choice. constantine might not be half bad, but coaches a pretty frickin BORING brand of hockey. i guess its better though if you wake up from your nap and your team is the winner.

i think a bunch of us should show up at dave taylor's place, kneecap him, and demand that he trade us andy murray, dustin brown, aaron miller, six hot chicks, a case of beer, a bag of tacos, and twenty bucks for keenan, biron, and shvidki.

what about melrose? lmao

Clash*
11-07-2003, 12:41 AM
It certainly is about time...

I also hope every Panther fan will agree with me when I say this if you do not agree then that will only lead me to believe your into S&M...

After this practice Keenan has put the Panthers through and if they show no, that means none, signs of improvement on any level in their own individual games and team game, then Mike Keenan should no longer be the coach of this team..

Point being made, why would this team ever respond to him if they dont after being put through such hell of a practice...

I think I have made my point, agree or disagree, its your loss

p.s. before I get bashed, if they Panthers do respond, then great!.. I say keep him as coach, I'm only speaking of if they do not respond

After one practice, it might do something, but nothing sustained and not enough to matter. Keenan needs to keep his tail out there doin this day after day and not just one day. Talks about doin his job, please or someone else bein responsible. This is his job, and someone else has been responsible for over a year and a half now. Let's hope the players learn something from this type of practice.

Mike8
11-07-2003, 03:18 AM
i thought that was michel therrien? hes coaching the baby pens.

vigneualt may have coached a habs playoff team, but not one that featured a hot young goalie, unless a thirty or so year old jeff hackett is hot and young, i believe he was their last playoff goalie before theo.

Actually it was neither. :)

Andy Moog and Jocelyn Thibault were the duo in nets for Vigneault's Hab playoff club. And goaltending was not considered to necessarily be Montreal's strength at that time either.

IceKatsRHot
11-07-2003, 06:12 AM
Excited to watch tonite's game, although it is the Panthers and could very well be dissappointed easily...

After Mike Keenan's type of practice, who in this world would not respond to something so severe...

Some of these Panthers do not belong in this league not because of talent wise but because of intesity wise...

Yes you can all make excuses such as, without a system and with intesity they dont have much...

That is all BS... I can come right back and say these players got drafted so high because they have a system, because they have intensity...

Mike Keenan finally did something right in a LONG time... These players need to show they belong in the NHL making that kind of money...

If not they are hopeless... and Mike Keenan should go right back into another one of these practice's until it gets through in their heads

....Cant wait to find out the results

Acadmus
11-07-2003, 07:20 AM
....Cant wait to find out the results

I'm only hoping it gets results. Remember, this is the modern NHL where Pavel Bure can get two coaches fired by not responding until finally getting traded when he stopped responding to a third.

IceKatsRHot
11-07-2003, 07:22 AM
I'm only hoping it gets results. Remember, this is the modern NHL where Pavel Bure can get two coaches fired by not responding until finally getting traded when he stopped responding to a third.

Trade them..

If they dont want to play for this team...

Toodles

Captain8
11-07-2003, 08:49 AM
I'm only hoping it gets results. Remember, this is the modern NHL where Pavel Bure can get two coaches fired by not responding until finally getting traded when he stopped responding to a third.

Well, considering that the relationship was a prelude to disaster in Florida and (temporarily) in Vancouver, maybe the real lesson here is that Bure is Bure; Keenan is Keenan. When both are gone, it's time to move on. We're still waiting for the other shoe to drop.

In other words, it works both ways. When there is a major problem in the organization, whether it's a coach or a star player, it stalls progress.

Acadmus
11-07-2003, 08:58 AM
Trade them..

If they dont want to play for this team...

Toodles

We've tried that route...several times, actually. It doesn't help when the coach is someone that pretty much no one likes, and their dislike often ends up translating into a lack of respect. When a large number of the players no longer respect him, that's it. The coach is done.

These guys will flap the lips and say they respect Keenan, but the effort on the ice speaks otherwise. There's only a few of these players I'd personally trade, and they're not the only ones lacking effort these days.

Tonight will be a bellweather. If they can't (or won't) beat the Penguins tonight, then they aren't going to beat anyone. And there's no reason for losing to the Penguins except to do it intentionally. Lemieux is amazing, but he's still hurt, and the Panthers have kept him off the board when healthy before at any rate. Fleury is a great talent, but the defense in front of him is still iffy. The forwards are, for the most part, minor league talent. This is a highly winnable game for the Cats, and if they fail it's because they want to.

Chaos2k7
11-07-2003, 09:26 AM
We've tried that route...several times, actually. It doesn't help when the coach is someone that pretty much no one likes, and their dislike often ends up translating into a lack of respect. When a large number of the players no longer respect him, that's it. The coach is done.

These guys will flap the lips and say they respect Keenan, but the effort on the ice speaks otherwise. There's only a few of these players I'd personally trade, and they're not the only ones lacking effort these days.

Tonight will be a bellweather. If they can't (or won't) beat the Penguins tonight, then they aren't going to beat anyone. And there's no reason for losing to the Penguins except to do it intentionally. Lemieux is amazing, but he's still hurt, and the Panthers have kept him off the board when healthy before at any rate. Fleury is a great talent, but the defense in front of him is still iffy. The forwards are, for the most part, minor league talent. This is a highly winnable game for the Cats, and if they fail it's because they want to.


I agree, that we should win this game.

But to state that if we lose to these guys we through the game is too far.

These guys do have 3 wins this year. Did three other teams throw their games? I agree they are a substandard team, but, come on, throwing games?

:dunno:

Acadmus
11-07-2003, 09:41 AM
I agree, that we should win this game.

But to state that if we lose to these guys we through the game is too far.

These guys do have 3 wins this year. Did three other teams throw their games? I agree they are a substandard team, but, come on, throwing games?

:dunno:

Yep. but I only say it because I'm concerned that the lack of home success is a planned thing. It seems unnatural.

It's not so much that they throw the game, but that they simply won't bother to put in the effort needed to win in a move to force management to replace the coach. Remember, these players are union workers, and this is a union method of bringing about change. It's a workplace form of civil disobedience.

Desert Panther
11-07-2003, 10:01 AM
Yep. but I only say it because I'm concerned that the lack of home success is a planned thing. It seems unnatural.

It's not so much that they throw the game, but that they simply won't bother to put in the effort needed to win in a move to force management to replace the coach. Remember, these players are union workers, and this is a union method of bringing about change. It's a workplace form of civil disobedience.

Acadmus, the only reason I cannot go along with that line of thinking is because there are a few thousand players in the AHL, ECHL and European leagues that would try to take their jobs if they don't perform.

PanthersFan5Mezei
11-09-2003, 06:27 AM
you guys should keep keenan....fire dudley.....and lose about 5 europeans from this team. Be patient ...this team will be good....real good.

It think that kidchrome came up with the right solution...it's just too late seeing that Keenan's already been fired. I think that it should of been Dudley, if anyone, that should've been fired, not Keenan. It wasn't Keenan's fault that the Panthers are a young team...it wasn't Keenan's fault that due to their age, the Panthers are inconsistent.

This team has so many good young prospects. but they dont score, now, if the players obviously have talent, its the coaches fault they dont produce. Jokenin, Kozlov, bure, hus, van ryn. these guys r all top scoring players. they r good players. but only 1 or 2 produce consistantly. thus its the coaches fault. although i would like to see a trade for a top line RW. this team doesnt shoot. coach cant make them. his fault they have great big d-men. but their defence sucks. his fault Hus and Bure dont produce. coaches fault.

It is NOT the coaches fault that Bure sucks and that Huselius is a wuss and doesn't produce, IT'S THE PLAYERS!!! Kozlov is NOT a top scoring player, although he is good, Bure sucks, Huselius is a wuss and is NOT a top scoring player, and a few months ago, NO ONE would have considered Mike Van Ryn for that list (I only started after the preseason victory against Carolina) because it is his BREAKOUT SEASON.

The Panthers are just as you said, PROSPECTS, and damn good ones at that. You cannot expect them to be a great team for a few years, not because of the coach, but because they are still developing to their full potential currently in the NHL.

PanthersRule96
11-09-2003, 06:47 AM
Huselius is not allowed to play his game beacause he was afraid to make a mistake and sit the rest of the night. With the way Valeri has been playing, he could score 30 goals but 25 and 35 seem more realistic. VanRyn obviously has surprised everyone, but I thought that behind Krajicek, he and Novak were our best prospects. VanRyn was good last year but is playing amaizing.

With Keenan fired, I have to wonder how Jokinen will play. I expect major improvements from Huselius, Weiss, Hagman, and Valeri Bure. I think we will see Shivdki is someone goes down with an injury.

PanthersRule96
11-09-2003, 06:55 AM
Keenan was not the right coach for a young team with Europeans. Its like having Don Cherry coach a russian league team. His harda-- coaching affected fragile-mentality players like Huselius and Hagman resulting in not getting the best out of them. If he had been allowed to keep coaching, he would've ruined Weiss, Huselius, and all our other highly skilled young players. Only more Europeans are on the way. We are going to bring up Krajicek and Nedorost in the near future along with Novak challenging for a spot. Odelein will not be resigned. Luongo was even getting pissed off at Keenan and not playing as best he could. this is a major confidence booster for the players as it was like once someone made a mistake, they were benched and healthy scratched. Teams cannot be too European. You can build a team around Skill, around grit, around power players and hitters etc.... When getting the most our of this team, they will produce as Keenan only had a positive influence on Jokinen, Kozlov, VanRyn and not even Bouwmeester anymore. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if this team turned around like the Marlins.

Now, all we have to do is pull some 72 year old out of retirement and we'll go to the cup. :joker: Bowman anyone? :D

Clash*
11-09-2003, 11:41 AM
For the record, I mentioned that va Ryn would probably make the team this year (either here or at Fanhome, but the old posts here were erased) and I based it solely on the accounts of the management here. Shockin to come home from work, expectin a borin day and find Keenan was fired.

Robert Paulson*
11-09-2003, 02:16 PM
Thats it! He hasta go now! Our record is terrible! I dont care that i like him.
Is there any rumors on him being fired?
Is there any way WE could get him fired?

I just dont understand how such a hard ass cant motivate this team

Wow you really hit the nail on the head :)

Coolburn
11-10-2003, 03:26 AM
I think we all knew Keenan's background coming in and knew there was little chance he would last very long. In fact, he's lasted longer than many expected. But I think the problem is he doesn't report to the GM and usually his firings occurred when he butted heads with the GM. Our owner would have to fire him and I just don't see that happening. And I couldn't have been more wrong...I never did see Cohen firing him but I guess he tired of the whole Dudley asking for one thing and Mike asking for something different. At least in this situation, I'm glad I was wrong :D

patastrophe
11-10-2003, 11:12 PM
For the record, I mentioned that va Ryn would probably make the team this year (either here or at Fanhome, but the old posts here were erased) and I based it solely on the accounts of the management here. Shockin to come home from work, expectin a borin day and find Keenan was fired.


man, how do you think i feel, i just got back to l.a. from tennesee at my boy's wedding...four days without the internet, and i get home to see we had some eighties hockey, got shut out, and keenan and pelino got canned.