Penguins vs Panthers (11.07.03)

Game Night

Pittsburgh Penguins
http://www.coolhockey.com/jersey/Penguins_home_replica.jpg

vs

Florida Panthers
http://www.coolhockey.com/jersey/Panthers_away_replica.jpg

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Place: Office Depot Center
Time: 7:38 PM

Team Records:

Pittsburgh: 3-5-3-0, 9 points
22 goals for, 33 goals against

Florida: 4-7-2-0, 10 points
25 goals for, 34 goals against

Special Teams:

Pittsburgh:
Powerplay: 11.8% (7/58) - 26th place
Penalty Kill: 84.0% (42/50) - 13th place

Florida:
Powerplay: 11.7% (53/60) - 28th place
Penalty Kill: 84.6% (66/78) - 11th place

Team Leaders:

Pittsburgh:
Goals: Rico Fata (6)
Assists: Mario Lemieux (8)
Points: Rico Fata (10)
Average ice time: Dick Tarnstrom (24:29)
Plus/Minus: Drake Berehowsky (+3)
Penalty Minutes: Brooks Orpik (34)
Shots on goal: Rico Fata (25)
Wins: Marc-Andre Fleury (3)
Save Percentage: Marc-Andre Fleury (93.6%)
Goals Against Average: Marc-Andre Fleury (2.21)

Florida:
Goals: Olli Jokinen (5)
Assists: Viktor Kozlov (7)
Points: Viktor Kozlov (11)
Average ice time: Jay Bouwmeester (24:22)
Plus/Minus: Lyle Odelein, Olli Jokinen (+2)
Penalty Minutes: Darcy Hordichuk (44)
Shots on goal: Olli Jokinen (56)
Wins: Roberto Luongo (3)
Save Percentage: Roberto Luongo (93.8%)
Goals Against Average: Roberto Luongo (2.16)
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Wow, Bouwmeester already leading in ice time. Impressive.

Pens 1

Kraft

Panthers 0

I'll go with a 2-2 tie

Jokinen and Huselius for the Panthers

Fata and Koltsov for the Pens

Here's hoping for a bit more offense and not too many silly penalties. And ideally, here's hoping for someone else other than Rico Fata to show some offensive flair. (With Rico still playing great!)

Penguins 3
Fata(2), Bradley

Panthers 2
Jokinen, Huselius

Florida - 5

Pittsburgh - 2

Pit - 3
Fla - 3

Pit goals: Tarnstrom, Morozov, Abid
Fla goals: Bouwmeester 2, Kozlov 1

4-2 Panthers. By the way, Moran scored tonight. I guess he shouldn't havebeen traded. ;)

I think a 3-3 tie or 4-3 Panthers.

This is so obviously the 7 - 0 shutout by the Penguins.

Goals will be scored by Holzinger, Eastwood, Buchberger, McKenna, Bergevin, Berehowsky and Webb. It will then forever be known, hereafter in Penguin lore . . . as PMD . . . Penguin-Mentors-Day.
In all seriousness, I was just kidding about Webb getting a goal. Holzinger will get two.

This is so obviously the 7 - 0 shutout by the Penguins.

Goals will be scored by Holzinger, Eastwood, Buchberger, McKenna, Bergevin, Berehowsky and Webb. It will then forever be known, hereafter in Penguin lore . . . as PMD . . . Penguin-Mentors-Day.
In all seriousness, I was just kidding about Webb getting a goal. Holzinger will get two.

Yeah but isnt it time for the Penguins to blow out an opponent?

2-0 panthers

2-1 Panthers in OT.

Pens 3-0

Koltsov, Fata, Kraft

Our last five games against the Panthers we have a record of 0-4-0-1. And we've been outscored 20-7 during that time.

No Lemieux again tonight.

Kraft took the opening faceoff on a line with Straka and Koltsov. Let's see what he can do.

Valeri Bure's first goal in 38 games. 1-0 Panthers. First shot of the game. Wide open net.

Beautiful save by Fleury on the Bure wraparound.

Hagman walks in un-challanged (except for a dainty stick check by Kraft) and beats Fleury. 2-0 Panthers.

RICO FATA!

good lord, 7 goals for Rico!

Morozov with a nice set-up.

fata makes it 2-1 early in the 2nd

Man am I ever glad Pittsburgh has Fata :handclap: . Alex who? :D

Damn, I missed the Fata goal. Forgot the game was back on.

Kraft gets the goal!

woo hoo Krap with a goal 2-2

Milan Kraft :handclap:

Tie game :)

Kraft Scores.

2-2 Tie Game

Buchberger fighting again :confused: :)

Buchberger lands a beautiful punch on Odelein and sends him to the ice.

straka and K2 with the assists on Kraps goal

With all due respect, sans for the defensive blunder Kraft has been good.


4 shots for Milan, which is about how many Morozov has this year :shakehead

Kraft almost has as many shots as the rest of the team combined.

Kraft scoring, hmmm. I wonder where Lemieux is going to play when he returns, 3rd line? If he does we'll have the best third liner in the NHL. ;) Nice to see Kraft going to the net to score. :handclap:

Guys, I KNOW THAT MILAN KRAFT HAS NOT GOTTEN A REAL CHANCE.
This guy has TALENT.
He have not given him a FAIR chance to play.
Maybe he did get some small chances, but not any FAIR and good chance with players like Koltsov and Straka.
Now he will develop him-self in the player we want him to be.

He's good.
He has more talent then Morozov.
He just hasn't used it properly yet, well basically because he's been getting 2 minutes ice time.

Dear God!

How many times is the puck gonna bounce around in the crease before the pens can knock in a garbage goal

The Pens really need to give Kraft one last legit chance.

He's shown alot of talent and potential tonight.

It's one game.

The offensively minded Dan Focht? Who knew?

I have been rather impressed with Danny "says you're" Focht tonight... so far.

And I'd like to transfer the Moran-bad defenceman/plays over to Berehowsky. What say all of you?

Has he been given a chance at all this season?

Give him his chances, if he doesn't perform then ship him off. God knows he has the talent.

Berehowsky may suck but he's not been our worst D-man this year.

Defensively it has to be Dick Tarnstrom, not counting Baumgartner at least.

Focht has been very, very strong tonight, as he's been most of the season. Gotta wonder why he never did anything in Phoenix.

And I'd like to transfer the Moran-bad defenceman/plays over to Berehowsky. What say all of you?

Sounds like a good idea to me.

KRAFT WITH HIS SECOND!

Beautiful!

Straka and Koltsov with the assists again, second for each.

Holy Krap - Krap again from Straka and Koltsov

Kraft Scores.

3-2 Penguins

Nice patience and shot by Kraft.

If we can get this guy rolling, that'd be awesome.

Two more helpers for Koltsov so far tonight! :handclap:

if CP has is finger on the trade trigger with Krap - pull it now - dont sit him for 5 for games

oh yeah keep playing Holzinger, you know - the one that couldnt lift the puck on the 2 x 1

What just happened with Weiss? Where'd the puck pop out?

welcome back Stephen Weiss - grrrr

dammit 3-3

DRAT!!! 3-3 tie again, Weiss with the goal.

Lapse by Fleury.

Well, I guess Fleury didn't get the rebound as he and I thought he had it.

3-3.

Does Berehowsky think he is an offensive d-man all of a sudden? He keeps pinching in and going in deep.

my guess is someone told him he sucked as a defenseman so he is auditioning for a forward spot

good lapse by Bergevin and the center -- 4-3 FLA

Hopefully they can tie iot up.

Van Ryn on the PP - thanks to the Drake

Van Ryn on the PP - thanks to the Drake

"Boy, I'm really starting to dislike the Drake. Hate the Drake!"

6-3. Man do I ever hate empty netters against the pens.

i dont blame him, that was a horrible call .... they called nothing tonight, you could have slashed someones head off and they wouldnt of called it ... boy, im really starting to dislike the refs. hate the refs!!! :rant: :joker: lol i had to

Kraft better be on the top two lines again in Tampa and beyond. He earned his time tonight, and I think Edzo should give it to him.

The only really bad player was all of our favorites, Brian Holzinger. At this point, I'd like to see Endicott or something.:shakehead

Fleury wasn't good tonight, but his team let up some quality scoring chances (despite the disputed shot total).

I'm glad Edzo went off like he did after the game, he had every right to be PO'ed and it better rub off on the team.

Also it was good to hear that the clubhouse leaders, Bergevin and McKenna, were the guys that pumped the team up after that first period.

Heard he's also gonna give Mr Van Hellmond a call.:handclap:

Heard he's also gonna give Mr Van Hellmond a call.:handclap:
What for?

About the officiating and the shot count I believe. I only caught the tail end of the post game.

Good to see Kraft play well......bad to see Holzinger on the ice at all.....with the Cats recent record w/ Pitts I was afraid of this....hopefully Caron can have a strong start tomorrow and Kraft can carry some of this momentum....

And I'd like to transfer the Moran-bad defenceman/plays over to Berehowsky. What say all of you?

Before you start hammering away with your club . . . maybe you would want to explain how the "bad" defenseman, Berehowsky ended up a +2 in a 6 - 3 loss. :dunno: And, is the only plus player on the team.

You might want to pick your spots a little better! :D

Sounds like a good idea to me.

And, you jump on the bandwagon also . . . why's that? The guy's a PLUS 5 on a team that's playing at a MINUS 12. I'm not creating a PRO Berehowsky post . . . just wondering if you guys are into S & M. :dunno:

Also it was good to hear that the clubhouse leaders, Bergevin and McKenna, were the guys that pumped the team up after that first period.

Yepper, we need those mentors. Too bad that they had to have time on the ice last night. Even though their combine no shots on goal and MINUS 2 is about par for the course. I was wondering when the valve of this "over mentoring" program was going to take it's rightful place and justice due. They certainly should get credit for the 6 to 3 loss. LOL.

What would we do without them?
That is, other than to have Tomas Surovy and Ross Lupaschuk in their place. Of course, we would lose the some of the mentoring and more importantly lose the comic relief that these two provide. Up until now I was certainly fooled about how valuable that comic relief is to a team.

Hold the phone...Which one of you is insinuating that we could have moved those players for top 5 draft picks?
:lol:
People seem to 'give up' on some players quicker and quicker. Whitney is still a Junior in college for goodness sakes.

That, may have been me . . . but it might have been a little easier to determine if YOU knew who you were responding to.
The only point I was making is that the Penguins had to know they were going to unload. Many of the fans did and were suggesting (in postings) that they make some aggressive moves to do so. [If you doubt that, just ask and I'll dig up some posts made BEFORE that draft took place.] Right, Der Schweinehund?
Bobby Clarke certainly was no fool when he traded a third line wing (Ruslan Fedotenko, and two second round picks for that 4th overall). IMHO, he may have been hoping that Kari Lehtonen, fell through . . . because Columbus stated they were taking Nash and Atlanta would choose between the goalie (Lehtonen) or defenseman (Bouwmeester) they needed. Florida most likely would have taken Pitkanen, if Atlanta chose Boumeester.
All I said was that if the Pens were a little more pro-active they could have traded a number of players to Tampa or Atlanta and could have made other deals because they had to know they were going to be dumping players. But they didn't.

BTW, I never said anything was wrong with the selection of Whitney with the fifth pick. Maybe that was someone else.

I would bench Holzinger and McKenna, and play Kraft and Webb every day. Kraft did the same thing last year, when given a chance on the top 2 lines he produced. Then once he wasn't on the score sheet for 2 games straight he was demoted to 4th line duty or he was sitting in the press box.
I think Webb is extremely valuable to any team running a 4 line system.
The guy isn't scared to make big hits on the oppositions star players and he gives his all every shift, just like Buchberger.
I personally think Buchberger, Webb, Eastwood could be THE BEST 4TH LINE IN THE LEAGUE.
Any thoughts on that opinion? Because I think a great 4th line is one of the most undervalued things in hockey.

I personally think Buchberger, Webb, Eastwood could be THE BEST 4TH LINE IN THE LEAGUE.
Any thoughts on that opinion?

I have no problem with that at all. As long as Holzinger and McKenna are part of this recommendation.
Now, that we've taken care of that . . . let's bring up Surovy and Lupaschuk and we'll all feel better about things. Well, most of us, anyhow.

I have no problem with that at all. As long as Holzinger and McKenna are part of this recommendation.
Now, that we've taken care of that . . . let's bring up Surovy and Lupaschuk and we'll all feel better about things. Well, most of us, anyhow.

I know we are losing and everything, but honestly who would you play him over right now on the top 2 lines? And please don't say Morozov because that would be ridiculous. I'd love to bring him up also but I really don't think he'd see much playing time on the 1st 2 lines until Straka gets traded. Or if Mario's out for an extended period of time and Kraft totally blows his shot which is quite possible but I really think Kraft is gonna do well on the 2nd line.

And, you jump on the bandwagon also . . . why's that? The guy's a PLUS 5 on a team that's playing at a MINUS 12. I'm not creating a PRO Berehowsky post . . . just wondering if you guys are into S & M. :dunno:

Like I said before, Berehowsky is a perfect example of why not to read too much into +/-. And that last comment was a nice touch. :shakehead

I know we are losing and everything, but honestly who would you play him over right now on the top 2 lines? And please don't say Morozov because that would be ridiculous. I'd love to bring him up also but I really don't think he'd see much playing time on the 1st 2 lines until Straka gets traded. Or if Mario's out for an extended period of time and Kraft totally blows his shot which is quite possible but I really think Kraft is gonna do well on the 2nd line.

Putting the limit on the first two lines, eh? Is that a fair play responce? :dunno: :D

How about we concentrate on the real value of Abid and Bradley for a second. Especially Bradley. What does this player that San Jose thought was an even-up trade for Wayne "the train" Primeau brought to the table? Are you saying that Tomas Survoy couldn't play that 3rd line RW spot better than Bradley, Webb or Buchberger? And, BTW, the way a player can move up into the first two lines are many. Someone doesn't have to be traded or injured.

I here what your saying but I really don't think 3rd line is the place for Surovy. In my opinion the guy is a potntial first line scorer and probably needs those type of players on his line to excel. I honestly think he's better off this season kicking ass on Wilkes Barre's 1st line and if Straka goes by trade deadline then bring him up and give him a permanent spot with Mario and Morozov. I could be way off base but I think putting him on a checking line with Abid, Buchberger,ETC. would be useless and stunt his growth as a scorer. But hey I've been known to be way off base before.:p

Like I said before, Berehowsky is a perfect example of why not to read too much into +/-. And that last comment was a nice touch. :shakehead
Although I will agree that the PLUS/MINUS stat is one of the most miss applied of all the stats . . . that is because I don't think it can be applied from team to team. BUT within the same team, after a while, the PLUS/MINUS does start to mean something.

BTW, as you know, I'm not a big Drake Berehowsky fan . . . nor a fan of having all these old journeymen hockey players hanging around (like most all of you mentor supporters) but . . . the guy's a PLUS 5 on a team that is an overall MINUS 12. If you want to beat him up for his bad playing last night in comparison to the other defensemen we had on the ice . . . speak up and point it out how he was any worse than the others. Otherwise the guy was a PLUS 2 in a 6 - 3 game for crêpes sake!
My advice was . . . you might want to pick your spots better.

My advice to you is to not give advice to me.

[QUOTE=kutdacheez]

. . . nor a fan of having all these old journeymen hockey players hanging around (like most all of you mentor supporters)



What about Buchberger and Eastwood? I think they've been excellent additions to the team. Buchberger plays with more heart than 99% of the players in the league and Eastwood is a above average defensive forward and is great on face offs and penalty kills.
I honestly think that they were 2 of the better pick ups by CP in the last 5 years.

My advice to you is to not give advice to me.
No problem. He who needs advice the most, usually likes it the least. :D

What about Buchberger and Eastwood? I think they've been excellent additions to the team. Buchberger plays with more heart than 99% of the players in the league and Eastwood is a above average defensive forward and is great on face offs and penalty kills.
I honestly think that they were 2 of the better pick ups by CP in the last 5 years.

Not sure about two of the best in the last five years, but I've certainly been pleasantly surprised by their contributions. More so than Holzinger and Berehowsky, that is for sure.

No problem. He who needs advice the most, usually likes it the least. :D

No problem. He who gives the most advice, usually knows the least. :D

My advice was . . . you might want to pick your spots better.

Wow, someone is sticking up for Drake Berehowsky. Next we'll all be hearing how Holzinger really isn't *that* bad.

Look, as someone else put it so well... hate the Drake, HATE THE DRAKE.

The guy is a flat out bum. He pinches at the wrong time, he backpedals at the wrong time, he plays poorly in front of his own net, he plays poorly in the corners, he plays poorly at the point. The guy is flat out terrible.

The only defenseman who has been playing consistently well is Orpik, and even he is costing goals (blame Fleury for the 3rd goal if you want, but Orpik is the one who left the guy all alone in front for the rebound).

And everyone is jumping on the Kraft bandwagon - I think that's hysterical. It was just one game. His first goal was a fluke and his second goal belonged to Straka. I'm not saying Kraft didn't play well or have a good game - just remember he also cost the Penguins a goal when he failed to backcheck properly and tie up his man. And this is just one game. Before the game I was advocating Kraft getting more playing time because of his potential, but even I'm not jumping up and down after one game. When he hits the 10 goal plateau in less than 25 games, I'll start jumping, too.

I think I finally understood what Olcyzk meant when he said Kraft is victim of a "numbers game." When Lemieux returns, where are you going to play Kraft? 3rd line? 4th? He's not a grinder, he's a finisher, he needs top two line minutes to be effective. So who are you going to bump off the top two lines?

The Penguins problem is they are trying to field two scoring lines, a checking line and an energy line. Why? What possible good comes from Steve McKenna ever hitting the ice? Steve Webb? Kelly Buchberger? If it were up to me, the Pens would have three scoring lines and a checking line. Something like this:

Morozov Fata Malone
Straka Kraft Koltsov
Surovy Lemieux Abid
Bradley Eastwood Meloche

I would roll these lines, too. All four would get playing time - at least ten minutes each. And yes, Lemieux is on the 3rd line.

Look, I love Mario as much as the next fan. But can't we be realistic? He is really struggling this year. He has struggled since Kovy left. I wish it were different. I wish he was scoring goals. But he's not. To his credit, he has been hustling back time and again to backcheck. And he does make some decent passes (and some amazing passes). He also turns the puck over a lot on the power play and seems to have lost his scoring touch.

Look at it this way, Kraft is already outscoring Lemieux. How sad is that? I think it's time to face reality and stop playing Lemieux 22 minutes a game. Put him on the 3rd line and let him command the power play. He stays fresher throughout the game but he doesn't hinder the top two lines.

I still think Kraft may get traded, even if he continues to do well. This better play is just more bait and more trade value for him, IMO. But if he doesn't stop playing well (not necessarily 2 goals a night, just playing above average) I don't see why we shouldn't keep him, it's why we drafted him, right?

I still think Kraft may get traded, even if he continues to do well. This better play is just more bait and more trade value for him, IMO. But if he doesn't stop playing well (not necessarily 2 goals a night, just playing above average) I don't see why we shouldn't keep him, it's why we drafted him, right?
If you still think he may be traded and he continues to play like he did last night how much more should we get in return? That will be the question.

No problem. He who gives the most advice, usually knows the least. :D
I honesty believe it iz better tew know nothing than tew know what ain't so! :teach:

Wow, someone is sticking up for Drake Berehowsky. Next we'll all be hearing how Holzinger really isn't *that* bad.


I think when someone accuses someone of doing something they should be forced to name names. Since it wasn't me that is supporting ANY of the mentors . . . all I did was say if you want to kick Berehowsky it might be better to wait until he isn't a PLUS 2 in a 6 - 3 game . . . only because the average duck would realize that there had to be just about everyone else that played worse.

I still think Kraft may get traded, even if he continues to do well. This better play is just more bait and more trade value for him, IMO. But if he doesn't stop playing well (not necessarily 2 goals a night, just playing above average) I don't see why we shouldn't keep him, it's why we drafted him, right?
That's exactly right.
Some people just don't support playing all the youger players because somewhere deep down inside they think we are going to make the playoffs.
It's a great goal to shoot for but I thought most people accepted this and maybe next year as an X-Genaration development year.
Just so some of the X-Generation supporters don't get things way out of perspective Kraft was born in the same year as Fata. Kraft is two years younger than Bradley. A year younger than Murely. Three years younger than Morozov. A year younger than Malone. Just one year older than Endicott. He's the same age as Caron and Abid.