Cammellieri sent back to Manchester

jfont
11-07-2003, 11:25 AM
lakings.com

swinginutter*
11-07-2003, 11:50 AM
What a complete waste, and a complete joke!

Let's trade him for another Klatt type player, that way AM will play the *****ing guy!

Maynard
11-07-2003, 12:19 PM
Yeah cause he looked great when he played. Relax, he's young and it's early in the season.

IGM
11-07-2003, 12:22 PM
I have to agree with questioning WHY he was sent down. If it is for conditioning for three or four games then sure, I guess that is alright, he was out with an injury and was rusty when he came back.

IF it is for a big chunck of time then it only further lessens my opinion of AM in his abillity to coach young players. Cammo left M early because he was promised a real shot at playing on the first line in the NHL. That is what he and his coach said was the reason. If he is going to spend time down in the Ahl (when he has already proven that he can play above that level) then why do that to him? I also would have to ask why you would send him down and keep him there INSTEAD of a guy like Pirnes who looks good but isn't doing anything to warrant his staying and Cammo going down. I have to think that this is a short term assignment and that Cammo will be back up pdq.

If not, then with all of the great young talent we have in the system and the way that AM has shown that he doesn't do well with kids (see Frolov) I will have to wonder if he is the right coach for us. He is a great guy and a really good coach but is that what the team needs.

I am over reacting and am sure that it is short term so no biggie, but, if I am wrong,(or right) then this will suck.

swinginutter*
11-07-2003, 01:48 PM
I have to agree with questioning WHY he was sent down. If it is for conditioning for three or four games then sure, I guess that is alright, he was out with an injury and was rusty when he came back.

IF it is for a big chunck of time then it only further lessens my opinion of AM in his abillity to coach young players. Cammo left M early because he was promised a real shot at playing on the first line in the NHL. That is what he and his coach said was the reason. If he is going to spend time down in the Ahl (when he has already proven that he can play above that level) then why do that to him? I also would have to ask why you would send him down and keep him there INSTEAD of a guy like Pirnes who looks good but isn't doing anything to warrant his staying and Cammo going down. I have to think that this is a short term assignment and that Cammo will be back up pdq.

If not, then with all of the great young talent we have in the system and the way that AM has shown that he doesn't do well with kids (see Frolov) I will have to wonder if he is the right coach for us. He is a great guy and a really good coach but is that what the team needs.

I am over reacting and am sure that it is short term so no biggie, but, if I am wrong,(or right) then this will suck.

Well said! I truly don't uderstand this guy! And believe me now is when you play this guy, because he sure as ***** won't do it when Stumpel comes back and definitely not when Allison returns. It's funny how this roller coaster doesn't end. I mean we finally have great scouts in the system with great prospects in the system. And our supposedly new team belief is on building through the system, but I still haven't seen jack *****.
As far as you fans claiming it's still early and he didn't do anything is really funny to me. Let me see you play with 5 - 6 minutes of ice time on the fourth line and tear it up. No chance. I mean this is a guy that can drop your jaw with moves and shots, he's a pure sniper with great vision if he's given the proper support. How the ***** can you prove anything playing that amount of time under such a fine microscope. Same for Jared Aulin even if he was here it would be the same story. I can guarantee you Aulin or Cammy would have a regular shift anwhere else but this team. And that's with all of our injuries.
Last year on LATimes there was an article on Red Barenson from Michigan Wolverines claiming that LA was misusing there star, I didn't want to believe it but he hit it dead on.
I don't feel i'm overacting because history always repeats itself. And AM has showed us nothing to believe otherwise.

Face Wash
11-07-2003, 02:19 PM
Well said! I truly don't uderstand this guy! And believe me now is when you play this guy, because he sure as ***** won't do it when Stumpel comes back and definitely not when Allison returns. It's funny how this roller coaster doesn't end. I mean we finally have great scouts in the system with great prospects in the system. And our supposedly new team belief is on building through the system, but I still haven't seen jack *****.
As far as you fans claiming it's still early and he didn't do anything is really funny to me. Let me see you play with 5 - 6 minutes of ice time on the fourth line and tear it up. No chance. I mean this is a guy that can drop your jaw with moves and shots, he's a pure sniper with great vision if he's given the proper support. How the ***** can you prove anything playing that amount of time under such a fine microscope. Same for Jared Aulin even if he was here it would be the same story. I can guarantee you Aulin or Cammy would have a regular shift anwhere else but this team. And that's with all of our injuries.
Last year on LATimes there was an article on Red Barenson from Michigan Wolverines claiming that LA was misusing there star, I didn't want to believe it but he hit it dead on.
I don't feel i'm overacting because history always repeats itself. And AM has showed us nothing to believe otherwise.

Michael Cammalleri will someday be a solid 2-way player. Right now he's a one-way player, a one-way player coming off of an injury and is not in game shape.

The one thing people have to understand is, kids generally struggle defensively in the NHL. Hockey has become a "defensive" game (unfortunately) and you have to be able to play both sides of the ice effectively, especially on Andy Murray's team. And especially when you're undersized and aren't someone who's going to lay the body on guys in the defensive zone.

I don't think you can make a blanket statement about Murray and how he handles young players... Dustin Brown is 18 and takes a regular 4th shift (and probably should be down at Guelph IMO), Frolov was NEVER sent down and while his ice time was pretty low, it's mainly because he didn't warrant more with the playing time he was given. This year, he's played better and he's playing more (and not the other way around).

I think AM does a fine job with all the players on the team, but ultimately, it's his job to win games with the players he's given and judging from the talent he has overall right now (of those not injured) I think he's doing an excellent job!!

swinginutter*
11-07-2003, 02:47 PM
Michael Cammalleri will someday be a solid 2-way player. Right now he's a one-way player, a one-way player coming off of an injury and is not in game shape.

The one thing people have to understand is, kids generally struggle defensively in the NHL. Hockey has become a "defensive" game (unfortunately) and you have to be able to play both sides of the ice effectively, especially on Andy Murray's team. And especially when you're undersized and aren't someone who's going to lay the body on guys in the defensive zone.

I don't think you can make a blanket statement about Murray and how he handles young players... Dustin Brown is 18 and takes a regular 4th shift (and probably should be down at Guelph IMO), Frolov was NEVER sent down and while his ice time was pretty low, it's mainly because he didn't warrant more with the playing time he was given. This year, he's played better and he's playing more (and not the other way around).

I think AM does a fine job with all the players on the team, but ultimately, it's his job to win games with the players he's given and judging from the talent he has overall right now (of those not injured) I think he's doing an excellent job!!

I usually agree with all your posts, and you pretty much always hit it spot on. But I disagree here. Cammy does back check and makes it a habit too. If everyone for two second would get over this kids size, then maybe we can move on. He plays with more balls than most of the team, he finishes his checks and he's a waterbug out there. I don't see fans in Tampa complaining about St. Louis and he's a midget. Plus we didn't draft Cammy for his defensive and checking abilities, we drafted him for scoring. Which we lack big time at this moment.
I do agree with your Brown comments, and i'm no trying to make a blanket statement on how AM handles the team. But anybody that has been to training camp and followed Cammy in the preseason knows he deserves his shot NOW, not tomorrow. I'm not Cammy's older brother, where i'm trying to constantly stick up for the guy. I'm just saying either trade this guy so he can taunt us for the rest of our lives or start playing him now when we're so depleted. I mean really does Pirnes, Sim, Chartrand look that much better, and not one of those guys is big in stature.
I think AM has done a great job since he's been here, but some of his decisions have to make you wonder.

Game Misconduct
11-07-2003, 03:00 PM
Cammalleri was sent down because he didn't earn a roster spot. He'll be back, but better for him to be playing with the Monarchs than a healthy scratch in LA.

Pirnes, Sim and Chartrand have been playing pretty well.

King Blazer
11-07-2003, 03:21 PM
.....I mean really does Pirnes, Sim, Chartrand look that much better, and not one of those guys is big in stature.
I think AM has done a great job since he's been here, but some of his decisions have to make you wonder.

Not so sure it's all AM, could be some DT here as well.......

Let's see:

Pirnes-$475,000
Sim-$450,000
Chartrand-$420,000
Cammalleri-$1,075,000

Cammalleri now goes on AHL Salary so the Kings have effectively cut payroll by, well maybe not a million, but close, and with Brown making $1,240,000, how many million dollar plus prospects do the Kings keep around? As you have said, Pirnes, Sim and Chartrand really might not look all that much better or worse for that matter, but you can almost pay for all three of them by shippng Cammalleri to Manchester and putting him on his AHL salary!

Of course, it could be that the Kings are on the East Coast, the Monarchs are playing three in a row Fri,Sat,Sun so why not let Cammelleri zip up to New England, play three games and meet the Kings in Washington on Monday? Have the Kings filled Cams roster spot yet?

Oh, by the way, I'm listening to the Monarchs game, in which Cammalleri is playing, while I write this. So, he is at least playing hockey tonight.

Tadite
11-07-2003, 07:06 PM
IF it is for a big chunck of time then it only further lessens my opinion of AM in his abillity to coach young players.



I think you often write very well thought out posts but this time I think you are totally wrong. AM is a very skilled coach when it comes to developing young players. Frolov is a great example. Look at how much better this kid is now then in his rookie season. He is a very skilled PK and is now doing more then simply charging the net. He has a better understanding of the game and is really starting to use his talent to the fullest. Much of this is because AM understood that young guys like Frolov need to play limited minutes one night and a heavier load the next depending on how they look on the ice as well as how they prepaired mentally during the week. AM gave Frolov 20 minutes last game as a reward for his hard work and all-around game. Gleason is another example of a young kid who is looking better in each game that he plays. Gleason is clearly now our 5th d-man and has beaten out Corvo for that spot.

Cammy had some chances last year to play on the first line and because of his injury was not able to take full advantage of it. This year he was injured again and frankly we don't have a place for him. He isn't better then Stumpel and is not fast enough or tough enough to beat out Armstrong. He is not a very good defensive player (although he does try) and is not suited for the 4th line. He is also not in shape and did not look good at all in the few games he played this year. He needs to go down to the AHL and get his game back to the level that he can have success in the NHL because right now he does not have it. Not every prospect (no matter the hype) is going to make it I personally think that Cammy has a chance but right now is not his time.

One of the problems with suddenly having a large amount of high-level prospects is that we simply do not have enough ice time for all of them. We are going to have to make choices one of these days.... Frankly I think in the end Tambilini is going to beat out Cammy....

dafranchz
11-07-2003, 07:23 PM
I'm just glad alot of you like Cammy. When and if ever, he is given a true chance to show what he is all about.....watch out! Can't wait til he gets back. Manchester is a great loyal town, but it can be really lonely when you've played in the show.

Hopefully he isn't going to waste his time wondering why...but, how he plans to get back and shows he belongs.

Skebo
11-08-2003, 09:18 AM
In all the games I've seen Cammy in this year he has been a non-factor and virtually invisible out there. Everytime I did notice him, he was out on the periphery and not doing much to create scoring chances.

At least Sim, Chartrand and Pirnes (let's include Frolov and Brown too) have been able to consistently cycle the puck in the corners and create scoring chances. Cammy only managed one shot on goal in his two games and had no points (-2 to boot). Not exactly what I would call 'great'.

Some massive playing time at Manchester will do him some good. I doubt he is in top game shape at this point, due to all the time he's missed with injuries.

IGM
11-08-2003, 09:23 AM
By "in all" though you only mean 2. He has played in 2 games and both of those where games where he was used as a checking grinder when that really isn't his strength. The thing is that we will never know IF cammo CAN be great if he is going to be used as a grinder and given little bits of ice time and then sent down before he is given a real shot at showing his skills.

The thing to consider here though is that we are still very short handed and until we see Stympy Allison and Deader back we just won't be able to see these kids being used the way they should be.

Tadite
11-08-2003, 10:56 AM
By "in all" though you only mean 2. He has played in 2 games and both of those where games where he was used as a checking grinder when that really isn't his strength. The thing is that we will never know IF cammo CAN be great if he is going to be used as a grinder and given little bits of ice time and then sent down before he is given a real shot at showing his skills.

The thing to consider here though is that we are still very short handed and until we see Stympy Allison and Deader back we just won't be able to see these kids being used the way they should be.


Its true that Cammy will only be able to show his stuff on the top-6 BUT he just does not look like he is physically ready. He missed a few weeks and it could be a great idea for him to get his head and body back in the game in the AHL because right now he is not playing well enough to be on our top-6.

Because of Stumpels injury their was a shot at Cammy geting some ice time on the top line but he simply didn't show enough in his two games to get that level of ice time. He has not outplayed Armstrong, Klatt, Frolov, Palffy, Luc, or Stumpel so how can he play on the top-6? He is not suited for the 3rd line so it was always expected he play on the 4th line as the skilled offensive guy. But right now he was outplayed by Pirnes and Sim. He had more ice time then Frolov for those two games and didn't show either offensive skill or defensive awarness.

Kids are being used the right way (Gleason, Frolov) its just that Cammy has not been very good.

IGM
11-08-2003, 01:17 PM
I agree with your first point about Cammo. It is exactly what I have said so it must be right.;)

As for Frolov I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on that one. I think that Gleason is only being used in the right manner because of need and not because AM wants to but, to make that arguement is truly just speculative and has no foundation so I agree that in his case it could be either way. Frolov though, I just don't agree.

Tadite
11-08-2003, 01:56 PM
I agree with your first point about Cammo. It is exactly what I have said so it must be right.;)

As for Frolov I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on that one. I think that Gleason is only being used in the right manner because of need and not because AM wants to but, to make that arguement is truly just speculative and has no foundation so I agree that in his case it could be either way. Frolov though, I just don't agree.


AM has been the Canada's national coach at the WJC. If the nation of Canada truests him to understand how to play young players in a high preasure enviroment like the World Junior Championship then maybe we should give him a little slack?:)
:)

IGM
11-08-2003, 02:12 PM
Nope. It is two totally different situations. He is great when he is coaching a team full of kids but take a look at the games. (I have them on tape if you want) he did the same thing with them. A few of his more talented players sat while his grinders worked the PP. Allot of people in the great white weren't happy with the way that went. Of course, he also ONLY had kids to work with so again, just a different set of circumstances.

As for AM as a coach well you won't get me to say anything bad about him in ANY other situation. He is one of the best and his system is smart and more than a stationary trap that most coaches are failing with. My only problem is in the way he uses his kids and then tells them that they have to earn their way into the top spots when he isn't giving them what they need to develope those kinds of skills.

FYI though, I had a chance during camp to sit with AM at the Stick and talk about this very subject and he (am) feels that we have too many young talented players that are in the line up due to injury (at that time) and that it makes it really hard for him and his staff to properly assess their skills. He said that he feels that he is giving his team a better chance at winning with players that know how to handle themselves at both ends of the ice. He said a few other things like that but, my point for me still stands (if that is the case then you will never know how good these kids can be if you don't give them the shot and have the time to watch them develope.).

So, I will give AM a break AND a tip, the break is the next time he is getting a Hot Chocolate at the rink I am buying and the tip is If your tired, pull over, we need you too much around here for you to drive tired on icy roads!

:)

MOOSE55
11-08-2003, 08:58 PM
3 points for Cammy tonight......he belongs on the kings......thhere is no point in letting him light up the AHL all season

King Blazer
11-09-2003, 08:40 AM
3 points for Cammy tonight......he belongs on the kings......thhere is no point in letting him light up the AHL all season

3 points for Tripp as well, Scott Barney has 5-goals in three games......Before we start going crazy about any one person here, last night was a TOTAL TEAM EFFORT and yes Cammy and Tripp had three point nights against a struggling Portland Pirates defense lead by a guy named Mike Pudlick, remember him, probably wouldn't have even made the Monarchs this year but saw major time for the injury plagued Piratres last night. Yes, Cammy had a multiple point night, so did others. GRRRRRRRRRR!!!

So based on ONE multiple point night in the AHL this season, do you think the Kings should bring him right back up, where his ice time is likely to be reduced by over 50%, probably much less time on special teams than he sees in Manch.? The papers have indicated that this is a conditioning assignment and so I don't see this as long term. IMO given the early season injury to Cammy, let him have a few multiple point nights in the AHL, get his wind and bounce back, show he can go 20+ min./game back to back nights with no ill side effects to the knee....

In short, given the long term benifits that we all expect from Cammy, a few tune-up games in the AHL will not IMO be detrimental to his overall development into a top NHL player.

IGM
11-09-2003, 09:14 AM
No, you are missing the point. Cammo had 22 points in something lime 14 games in the AHL last year and in his first game back he has three. Nobody is basing anything on ONE game. They are saying that, based on his performances in the AHL "last year" and "this one game this year" that it is obvious that the kid is able to play above the AHL level.

Also, I don't see where ANYONE is saying that "a few tune-up games in the AHL" isn't a good idea. They are saying that Cammo better not be being sent down to the AHL for any long period of time in favor of keeping guys like Sim,Pirnes etc up with the big club.

King Blazer
11-09-2003, 10:59 AM
No, you are missing the point. Cammo had 22 points in something lime 14 games in the AHL last year and in his first game back he has three. Nobody is basing anything on ONE game. They are saying that, based on his performances in the AHL "last year" and "this one game this year" that it is obvious that the kid is able to play above the AHL level.

Also, I don't see where ANYONE is saying that "a few tune-up games in the AHL" isn't a good idea. They are saying that Cammo better not be being sent down to the AHL for any long period of time in favor of keeping guys like Sim,Pirnes etc up with the big club.


Actually, it was his second game back, he had 0-point in the Friday night game but that really isn't the point here. I really don't think that I'm missing the point here so much as being realistic wrt Cammo. I do not disagree that Cammo has proven that he can excell at the AHL level be it against top or cellar dweller teams. However, please remember that during the 2001-2002 season, Chartrand had 22-points in like 22-games for Manchester as well, and I think we all agree that Cammo is more likely to develop into much more of an offensive threat at the NHL level than Chartrand. Also, last year WAS an anomaly wrt injuries, and had the Kings not been so "thin", Cammo probably would have spent more time developing in Manchester. In my opinion, last year was not a good year for the Development of some Prospects in the system because they had to be shufffled into "roles" they aren't suited for, some were injured, and "Baptism by Fire" is rarely good for development.

If we want to base things on last years AHL and NHL seasons for Cammo , he was injured for a portion of last year's NHL season. Yes, he worked hard in the off-season, came back strong, had a great camp, and injured his knee and is now really just starting to get back to where he can and should be.

My point is that if a PROSPECT, Cammo in this instance, comes to Manchester on a conditioning assignment means he can get 20+ mins. a game, play on special teams, play 3-nights in a row, center a "scoring line" and have success at it, I think it's a great move for his development. He was not getting this kind of time with AM. When Cammo goes back up, if things are "status quo", then why bother moving him up quickly?

IGM
11-09-2003, 12:39 PM
Um, ok I guess. Not really the same thing but, ok, sure.

King Blazer
11-12-2003, 08:05 AM
No, you are missing the point. Cammo had 22 points in something lime 14 games in the AHL last year and in his first game back he has three. Nobody is basing anything on ONE game. They are saying that, based on his performances in the AHL "last year" and "this one game this year" that it is obvious that the kid is able to play above the AHL level.

Also, I don't see where ANYONE is saying that "a few tune-up games in the AHL" isn't a good idea. They are saying that Cammo better not be being sent down to the AHL for any long period of time in favor of keeping guys like Sim,Pirnes etc up with the big club.

Looks like Cammo MAY be staying in Manchester through this weekend according to Coach Boudreau in his weekly column.....I think the article gives good insight into where at least one coach in the orginization sees Cammo wrt talent and fitness right now...

http://www.theunionleader.com/sports_show.html?article=28837