[2006-2007] La Liga Thread [Archive]

les Habs

08-23-2006, 12:47 AM

OK, so I've been delayed with some Barça news. I won't go in chronological order, but here are a few things:

-Laporta was the only candidate to get the required number of signatures for the election. Translation, he wins. He even got the signature of the guy I wanted to win 3 years ago in the last election, Lluis Bassat. Bassat lost to Laporta, and I'm glad now despite wanting Bassat back then. Still it's great to see a high profile guy like Bassat back Laporta during all this nonsense. He was in the stands for the second leg of the Supercopa and was singing the club's hymn while the players were parading the trophy.

-Barça won the annual Gamper Trophy today brushing aside Bayern Munich 4-0. The game is essentially a friendly that's played every year against a top notch opponent and also serves as the official presentation of the team. Last season it was Juve and turned out to be Messi's coming out party. It used to be a bigger deal (and still sorta is), but it's not as important of late with all the other matches we're playing (6 matches in 16 days right now). I have yet to see the match (downloading it tonight), but Barça apparently put on a real show yet again. There were 22 different players figuring for Barça as well. I'll post something about it after I watch the match.

-The Gamper was Barça's second piece of silverware this season. The first was the Spanish Supercopa. Our opponents were the hated local rivals Espanyol, the Parakeets being last season's Copa del Rey winners. In the build up to the match another crazy Spanish moment happened. Zambrotta was leaving the airport after the team arrived from the States and was refused a ride from a cab driver because the driver was an Espanyol supporter. Well he along with the disgraceful club that he supports got his just desserts. Barça won the first leg at Montjuic 1-0. Deco was the scorer in a more lackluster match. Still Barça could have won 3-0 or 4-0. They never really got out of 1st gear for the match.

In between the two legs is when yet another truly Spanish even happened. After the 1st leg, Espanyol sent a complaint that we played Xavi and Puyol. Both didn't play for the Spanish NT due to injury. Well there's a rule that says that they can't play 5 days after the NT match if they couldn't play for the NT due to injury. Well I understand that they could play since the NT agreed they didn't have to play. So it went nowhere. Still even more motivation for us to thump them in the return leg.

On to the second leg. Before the match Espanyol were jeered, which was nice. May seem unsporting, but if I told you what I heard the Espanyol fans did in the first leg... Anyway, not too many surprises in our starting XI. We won the match 3-0 and really dominated. We looked like were in full season form and at the top of our game in the first half. We took it down a gear in the second half, but were still impressive. We created a number of chances and much better quality chances than Espanyol, who barely troubled us all match. In the end they ended up kicking our players around the pitch (albeit unintentionally if you ask me as they just couldn't cope). Anyway, it was a very convincing performance and I just hope we play like this all season long. Ratings:

Jorquera - 7 - Not much to do, but he handled the shots he had saving nicely on a long shot.

Belletti - 9 - Man of the match for me. Two assists with two nice crosses. The first assist was especially nice considering the buildup. He played a really nice give and go with Xavi where the passes were all one touches. What was great about it though was how he pulled the first pass to him (not the return from Xavi, but before that) out of the air with a one touch to Xavi. Aside from the assists though he made some nice other passes with a nice crossfield ball and a nice through ball. He really has been doing well this summer.

Marquez - 7.5 - Better than Puyol I thought. He won a nice ball and picked out a cross pretty nicely.

Puyol - 7 - Solid. Not much to do though.

Gio - 6.5 - Not too much for him to do either. Got forward a few times in the first half that was needed more throughout the match.

Xavi - 7.5 - I thought he had a fine game. Well taken goal despite the quality of the cross. Nice to see him in the box like that. Better in the first half, but typical Xavi throughout. Drew a couple of fouls, held the ball well, won a ball and got back to help when needed and made some nice passes. Throughball to Eidur in the second half was nice despite the linesman wrongly ruling it offside. Can't forget to mention another typical Xavi moment. He had the ball at his feet and was facing the Espanyol net but was in our half. He was confronted by two Espanyol players with no way through (considering Xavi and the way he plays). So he just turned around the opposite direction and went the other way. I love it when he does that and then just gets away.

Motta - 6 - I think he's a waste in the DM role. He's just not involved enough. Big improvement when Iniesta came on.

Deco - 8.5 - Two goals and a solid performance. We saw a little of everything Deco in this one. Looks like he's ready to start this season off right and erase any of the doubts after last season. His second goal was really nice and the perfect cap on the night. Nearly a full bicycle kick from a well weighted Belletti cross. SUPERDECOOOOOOOOOO GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!! :D

Messi - 7 - I thought he worked really hard on the offensive end and definitely was dangerous. A really nice run by him on the goal that should have been for Ronnie. Just didn't have a lot to show for it at the end of the day.

Eto'o - 6 - Didn't seem to have his touch out there and wasn't too involved. Still he did work hard and had a nice run. Definitely provided more mobility to spread the defense than Eidur did.

Ronaldinho - 8 - Looked like he was a blast out there. Better in the first half. Just great how he provided that assist for the first. Just slowly moved towards the defender who had to respect him, then Ronnie just delivers a sweet cross for Xavi to bury. He also had a couple of nice layoffs for Gio as Gio made overlapping runs. Should have had a goal as did really well to create space for himself.

Thuram - 8 - Very solid when called upon. Good overall defending and a couple of nice interceptions. Really showed his strength outmuscling a couple of players.

Eidur - 6 - He held the ball well and was fouled twice as result. That was about it though.

Iniesta - 7.5 - Came on late, but he was noticeable. Had a nice move to beat a player, drew a foul or two and passed well. He also was tracking back. I would definitely start him as our DM over Motta.

Sala Martin - 2 - Black pants, black shirt, black tie. Lavender blazer. :D

les Habs

08-23-2006, 12:59 AM

So what's with Eto'o throwing his toys from the pram when he was replaced by Gudjohnsen for the 2nd half the other day? :confused:

No problems. The guy HATES sitting and ALWAYS wants to play. It was a bit ridiculous, but like I said in the Barça forum I'd rather have a guy with this hunger than with not. It's all been sorted as he's spoken with Rijkaard and the senior players. No problems, unless you're reading as.

FlyHigh

08-23-2006, 09:40 AM

That Deco goal from the half bicycle kick was a real beauty even though he almost took off Ronnie's head. :biglaugh:

les Habs

08-23-2006, 02:53 PM

That Deco goal from the half bicycle kick was a real beauty even though he almost took off Ronnie's head. :biglaugh:

That was a real beauty. Funny thing was afterwards Ronnie mockingly choked him since Ronnie missed a very similar attempt in the first half.

I've attached a pic of the President back where he belongs. Thumbs up indeed Joan. Notice a certain someone's blazer next to him. Just like the new away shirt! :D

helicecopter

08-24-2006, 06:56 PM

As for Madrid, they did poorly in a preseason tournament with Betis, Villarreal and somebody else. I think they finished last.And that means absolutely nothing. Unfortunately Capello's teams are used to start collecting their unspectacular wins once the official season starts.
Their opponents will soon realize their midfield's texture has gone from butter to steel. :hit:

helicecopter

08-24-2006, 06:59 PM

Btw, instead of adding hurting pics of that jerk you should take care of this thread providing the complete schedule and the upcoming first stage's complete program. :D

FlyHigh

08-24-2006, 07:21 PM

Btw, instead of adding hurting pics of that jerk you should take care of this thread providing the complete schedule and the upcoming first stage's complete program. :D

The policeman strikes again. :D

les Habs

08-24-2006, 11:01 PM

And that means absolutely nothing. Unfortunately Capello's teams are used to start collecting their unspectacular wins once the official season starts.
Their opponents will soon realize their midfield's texture has gone from butter to steel. :hit:

Well with the season starting this weekend it may well mean something. 2-1 over Anderlecht where the two goals scored were against what I understand was a reserve side isn't very impressive. I won't even get into how bad their second stringers (including your boy Robinho) were in the second half. Certainly not as impressive as 4-0 over Bayern, and that's not even mentioning the Supercopa.

I think the steel is evident. I'm sure the refs will notice the steel as well. The problem is there is too much steel not even artistry.

Anyway, since you've now officially jumped on the Real Madrid bandwagon, why don't we put your money where your mouth is and make a little bet about who's going to win La Liga. I'll take Barça and you can have your "Galacticos".

les Habs

08-24-2006, 11:04 PM

Jornada 1

Saturday, August 26, 2006
TIME HOME AWAY VENUE
21:00 UK Valencia v Real Betis Estadio Mestalla

Sunday, August 27, 2006
TIME HOME AWAY VENUE
18:00 UK Deportivo La Coruña v Real Zaragoza Estadio Riazor
18:00 UK Espanyol v Gimnastic de Tarragona Estadio Olimpico de Montjuic
18:00 UK Osasuna v Getafe Estadio El Sadar
18:00 UK Racing Santander v Atlético Madrid Estadio El Sardinero
18:00 UK Real Madrid v Villarreal Estadio Santiago Bernabéu
18:00 UK Recreativo Huelva v Mallorca Estadio Nuevo Colombino
20:00 UK Athletic Bilbao v Real Sociedad Estadio San Mamés

Monday, August 28, 2006
TIME HOME AWAY VENUE
20:00 UK Celta Vigo v Barcelona Estadio Balaídos *

Tuesday, August 29, 2006
TIME HOME AWAY VENUE
20:00 UK FC Sevilla v Levante Estadio Ramon Sanchez Pizjuan *

Barca and Sevilla's respective matches are delayed due to both playing for the European Super Cup on Friday.

helicecopter

08-25-2006, 05:16 AM

Well with the season starting this weekend it may well mean something. 2-1 over Anderlecht where the two goals scored were against what I understand was a reserve side isn't very impressive. I won't even get into how bad their second stringers (including your boy Robinho) were in the second half. Certainly not as impressive as 4-0 over Bayern, and that's not even mentioning the Supercopa.

I think the steel is evident. I'm sure the refs will notice the steel as well. The problem is there is too much steel not even artistry.

Anyway, since you've now officially jumped on the Real Madrid bandwagon, why don't we put your money where your mouth is and make a little bet about who's going to win La Liga. I'll take Barça and you can have your "Galacticos".:biglaugh:
dude, you are a master of overreacting!
My boy Robinho? Are you really convinced it's me considering him better than he is and not you considering him worse than he is?
You should state once for all what you think of him.. i mean, how much do you think he sucks.. :)

I think the steel is evident. I'm sure the refs will notice the steel as well. That's a good point; the main problem for Capello to make his system work comparing with his tenure with Juventus is that his midfielders (and Cannavaro) won't have a free pass to sistematically foul down the opponents.

Anyway, since you've now officially jumped on the Real Madrid bandwagon, why don't we put your money where your mouth is and make a little bet about who's going to win La Liga. I'll take Barça and you can have your "Galacticos".My Galacticos?? Madrid bandwagon?? again: :biglaugh:
I've followed with particular interest the planning and development of this Barca team to become the closest thing to my idea of 'how soccer should be played' i've witnessed. You were not around this board when i was discussing of how good the team was/could become during the second part of Rijkaard's first season and that it could be pretty easily furtherly improved with two top players at LB (partially disproved by Gio's strong play) and 'RW' ..and now that they have Zambrotta and Messi there you want me to bet against Barca?? No way.
That said, my point is that chances to win La Liga are much closer than you seem to think (or like to make it look). And the main factor is not even on the technical value of players and teams. Fact is Madrid will be more motivated and Barca will need to keep up their own motivation/determination to win it again. Capello's main strength is to make his teams consistently play with top determination on any given Sunday (or Saturday), that's where Barca could pay back some of their team's edge. Anyway, we will realize soon about Madrid's chances to win as early as this year: Capello has built all of his championships' wins on strong starts, that helps him to keep everyone focused and the team close to him, ready to withstand his demands. If they don't start very well (as for results, NOT as for good looking play) i think their chances will fade away.

les Habs

08-25-2006, 11:16 PM

:biglaugh:
dude, you are a master of overreacting!
My boy Robinho? Are you really convinced it's me considering him better than he is and not you considering him worse than he is?
You should state once for all what you think of him.. i mean, how much do you think he sucks.. :)

That's a good point; the main problem for Capello to make his system work comparing with his tenure with Juventus is that his midfielders (and Cannavaro) won't have a free pass to sistematically foul down the opponents.

My Galacticos?? Madrid bandwagon?? again: :biglaugh:
I've followed with particular interest the planning and development of this Barca team to become the closest thing to my idea of 'how soccer should be played' i've witnessed. You were not around this board when i was discussing of how good the team was/could become during the second part of Rijkaard's first season and that it could be pretty easily furtherly improved with two top players at LB (partially disproved by Gio's strong play) and 'RW' ..and now that they have Zambrotta and Messi there you want me to bet against Barca?? No way.
That said, my point is that chances to win La Liga are much closer than you seem to think (or like to make it look). And the main factor is not even on the technical value of players and teams. Fact is Madrid will be more motivated and Barca will need to keep up their own motivation/determination to win it again. Capello's main strength is to make his teams consistently play with top determination on any given Sunday (or Saturday), that's where Barca could pay back some of their team's edge. Anyway, we will realize soon about Madrid's chances to win as early as this year: Capello has built all of his championships' wins on strong starts, that helps him to keep everyone focused and the team close to him, ready to withstand his demands. If they don't start very well (as for results, NOT as for good looking play) i think their chances will fade away.

:razz: GOTCHA! Gotta love a post with no smilies. Really puts the other dude on the wrong foot. :D

You clearly think Robinho is better than he is. :sarcasm:

Why thank you professor! Actually Easy E brought up the best point about Madrid and that is their lack or creativity eminating from this new midfield.

I don't think I underestimate Madrid's chances. I chose those for a second place finish last season (though only 2 points separated them from 5th place mind you). What I think Capello brings to this side that can make them successful is this defensive philosophy. Cannavaro made an interesting comment the other day when he basically said that they won't be pretty, but that they'll run a lot. :yawn:

Anyway, you're absolutely correct when you say that motivation will be key. I personally think you're underestimating the motivation in the Barça camp as guys like Ronaldinho and especially Eto'o seem motivated for just about every match. Eto'o gets pissed if he's subbed in the 90th minute. Anyway, I do still worry that Barça may rest on their laurels a bit and that the hunger could erode. Today's result is hopefully the wake up call. Still I think there will be plenty of hunger and two of the three new faces will increase the competition amongst the squad.

BTW dude, I think I can score you last season's Madrid shirt for half price. For only $5 extra you can get Robinho on the back. :amazed: :D

Strizzi

08-26-2006, 03:15 AM

Strizzi, i would be interested in seeing your starting 11 for Valencia for this season in the La Liga thread (with Vicente, Joaquim, and Silva it sounds tasty. Btw, how serious is Baraja's injury?)I think with everyone healthy, we could see something like this (don't think Silva will have a starting spot right away):

--------------------- Morientes -------------------
------------------ Villa ---------------------------
--- Vicente ---------------------------Joaquin ---
--------------------- Baraja/Edu -------------------
------------------ Albelda ------------------------
-- Del Horno ---- Albiol --- Marchena ---- Miguel --
-------------------- Canizares --------------------

About Baraja's injury: I only read "several weeks", but no cocrete number yet.

ginner classic

08-26-2006, 03:28 AM

I think with everyone healthy, we could see something like this (don't think Silva will have a starting spot right away):

--------------------- Morientes -------------------
------------------ Villa ---------------------------
--- Vicente ---------------------------Joaquin ---
--------------------- Baraja/Edu -------------------
------------------ Albelda ------------------------
-- Del Horno ---- Albiol --- Marchena ---- Miguel --
-------------------- Canizares --------------------

About Baraja's injury: I only read "several weeks", but no cocrete number yet.

There's a couple players in there on the wrong side of their careers, but that is one heck of a lineup. Looks like something Sampe would put together in a soccer draft. I daresay there are five real threats in La Liga this year, which is going to be real fun to watch.

les Habs

08-26-2006, 12:11 PM

There's a couple players in there on the wrong side of their careers, but that is one heck of a lineup. Looks like something Sampe would put together in a soccer draft. I daresay there are five real threats in La Liga this year, which is going to be real fun to watch.

Definitely a strong side. I think that Silva will get some time. Without him they lack some creativity.

Well if you consider that last season only 2 points separated 2nd from 5th you can understand how good La Liga is. I think that this season it won't be that close at the top, but there will still be a good share of challengers throughout. Villarreal would have been a better bet, but now we'll have to see how they cope without Pires and especially Gonzalo. At least they don't have Europe to distract them. I think Osasuna will be up there again as well and also have don't have as much a distraction after crashing out of the CL. Sevilla will be a strong side again. Atletico Madrid could actually realize their potential this season too. I could see them grabbing a CL place this time around. They've added quality and depth.

helicecopter

08-26-2006, 12:26 PM

Definitely a strong side. I think that Silva will get some time. Without him they lack some creativity.What do you think of David Silva? I liked him a lot last season the few times i saw Celta..
chances for him to start together with Vicente and Joaquim? Only with Villa as lone forward i fear..

Well if you consider that last season only 2 points separated 2nd from 5th you can understand how good La Liga is. I think that this season it won't be that close at the top, but there will still be a good share of challengers throughout. Villarreal would have been a better bet, but now we'll have to see how they cope without Pires and especially Gonzalo. At least they don't have Europe to distract them. I think Osasuna will be up there again as well and also have don't have as much a distraction after crashing out of the CL. Sevilla will be a strong side again. Atletico Madrid could actually realize their potential this season too. I could see them grabbing a CL place this time around. They've added quality and depth.Ahh, i would need links to the teams' rosters like in the other leagues' thread's starters!

PK*

08-27-2006, 02:12 PM

I can see Cappelo brought his highly creative strategies to Real.

DevilFisch

08-27-2006, 09:08 PM

Real Sociedad tied Athletic Bilbao, 1-1! Which was great because Bilbao's goal was on a highly questionable penalty call. (to put it nicely, the GOL TV color commentator was more...colorful about it) Furthermore, it was a mostly boring game. Real Sociedad tying it up late made things exciting in the last few minutes, at least.

les Habs

08-27-2006, 11:15 PM

Here are the clubs competing for La Liga this season. Click on the link to view the team's page including squad, latest results, fixtures, etc.

Standings (click on squad to see selection):

01) Athletic Club (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/team?id=93&cc=5739/)
02) Atletico Madrid (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/team?id=1068&cc=5739)
03) Barcelona (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/team?id=83&cc=5739)
04) Celta (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/team?id=85&cc=5739)
05) Deportivo La Coruna (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/team?id=90&cc=5739)
06) Espanyol (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/team?id=88&cc=5739)
07) Getafe (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/team?id=2922&cc=5739)
08) Gimnastic (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/team?id=4492&cc=5739)
09) Levante (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/team?id=1538&cc=5739)
10) Mallorca (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/team?id=84&cc=5739)
11) Osasuna (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/team?id=97&cc=5739)
12) Racing Club (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/team?id=87&cc=5739)
13) Real Betis (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/team?id=244&cc=5739)
14) Real Madrid (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/team?id=86&cc=5739)
15) Real Sociedad (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/team?id=89&cc=5739)
16) Real Zaragoza (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/team?id=91&cc=5739)
17) Recreativo Huelva (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/team?id=2571&cc=5739)
18) Sevilla (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/team?id=243&cc=5739)
19) Valencia (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/team?id=94&cc=5739)
20) Villarreal (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/team?id=102&cc=5739)

Any questions just ask me and I'll try and help you out.

EDIT: I've added this to the first post in the thread if you're looking for the info for future reference.

helicecopter

08-28-2006, 08:21 AM

I was awaiting for this les Habs! Very appreciated!

helicecopter

08-28-2006, 08:25 AM

Did Aguero and Sobis play in the first game?
If the answer is yes, how did they do?

les Habs

08-28-2006, 11:23 AM

Did Aguero and Sobis play in the first game?
If the answer is yes, how did they do?

Aguero came on for about 20 minutes, but I don't know how he did. Match report doesn't even mention him, but then at that point they were down to 10 men.

Ironchef Chris Wok*

08-28-2006, 06:07 PM

Valencia has a tight lineup, but I wonder if Morientes still has any gas left in the tank. Last season was pretty brutal.

les Habs

08-28-2006, 06:26 PM

Barça won today. 3-2 over Celta. I have yet to see the match, but I listened to it on Cadena Ser (the guy on the radio almost broke my eardrum). Sounds like a very nice match for Messi, goal and an assist. Eidur's winner was pretty nice. Iniesta sounds to have shown yet again why he should be starting DM. He won more balls than Edmilson and Motta combined. He also set up Messi after a nice run.

FlyHigh

08-28-2006, 06:29 PM

helicecopter

08-28-2006, 06:31 PM

les Habs

08-28-2006, 06:52 PM

:yo:

Messi's assist was pretty nice if you ask me. Put it right into Eto'o's path on a nice give and go.

Actually he didn't win more balls than Edmilson, but more than Motta as Motta didn't win any balls. Iniesta sounds to have had a good enough game though. Set up Messi's goal with a nice run.

I actually did a stats comparison between Cesc and Inieta (though I think Cesc's stats were only from the Villa match). They were almost identical. Cesc with more shots (Iniesta hasn't taken any yet) but Iniesta with better passing. Defensively about the same. Iniesta more active on the pitch based on ground covered.

I got into it last week with a Merengue on XT. He was trolling the Barça forum and went after me after I said I thought we had a better midfield defensively. He of course changed his argument over and over finally summing it up with "whatever". After 1 week Iniesta, Deco and Edmilson have better numbers than Diarra. That's statistically only though.

les Habs

08-28-2006, 06:54 PM

I really wanted to watch the Barca game without knowing the score, but I won't be able to get the game until Wednesday and I just couldn't resist, seems like a very competitive game though, I'll look forward to it.

I'm downloading the match now. Sounded like a good match though based on what I've read, heard and seen.

helicecopter

08-28-2006, 06:58 PM

I actually did a stats comparison between Cesc and Inieta (though I think Cesc's stats were only from the Villa match). . :biglaugh:

I got into it last week with a Merengue on XT. He was trolling the Barça forum and went after me after I said I thought we had a better midfield defensively. :biglaugh:
i really can't believe he went after you! :biglaugh::biglaugh:

FlyHigh

08-28-2006, 07:00 PM

Messi's assist was pretty nice if you ask me. Put it right into Eto'o's path on a nice give and go.

Actually he didn't win more balls than Edmilson, but more than Motta as Motta didn't win any balls. Iniesta sounds to have had a good enough game though. Set up Messi's goal with a nice run.

I actually did a stats comparison between Cesc and Inieta (though I think Cesc's stats were only from the Villa match). They were almost identical. Cesc with more shots (Iniesta hasn't taken any yet) but Iniesta with better passing. Defensively about the same. Iniesta more active on the pitch based on ground covered.

I got into it last week with a Merengue on XT. He was trolling the Barça forum and went after me after I said I thought we had a better midfield defensively. He of course changed his argument over and over finally summing it up with "whatever". After 1 week Iniesta, Deco and Edmilson have better numbers than Diarra. That's statistically only though.

If you are trying to compare them with stats, feel free, but for me, what makes Cesc's passing special is his vision. He has that uncanny ability to hold onto the ball until the exact moment and then release a player on a run.

As far as ground covered goes, I wouldn't expect very much for Cesc because we spent the entire game in Villa's half.

les Habs

08-28-2006, 07:04 PM

If you are trying to compare them with stats, feel free, but for me, what makes Cesc's passing special is his vision. He has that uncanny ability to hold onto the ball until the exact moment and then release a player on a run.

As far as ground covered goes, I wouldn't expect very much for Cesc because we spent the entire game in Villa's half.

Iniesta has no vision of course. Hence the seeing eye dog on the pitch.

Well each half is brokent down into at least 9 grids. It shows mobility to some extent. Whether it's completely telling or not isn't definite, just like a lot of stats.

les Habs

08-28-2006, 07:05 PM

:biglaugh:

:biglaugh:
i really can't believe he went after you! :biglaugh::biglaugh:

I was just curious.

Are you being sarcastic with that second part???

les Habs

08-28-2006, 07:07 PM

Damn the Barça match is downloading fast. Less than and hour and a half at this pace.

BTW, I keep hitting edit instead of quote in case you're wondering why it make say edited by me on your posts. :blush: :innocent:

FlyHigh

08-28-2006, 07:07 PM

Iniesta has no vision of course. Hence the seeing eye dog on the pitch.

Well each half is brokent down into at least 9 grids. It shows mobility to some extent. Whether it's completely telling or not isn't definite, just like a lot of stats.

I'm not saying that Iniesta doesn't have any vision, from what I've seen of him, he's a very good passer.

But Cesc has something special. He just waits for that perfect moment and then releases someone (usually Henry) on a run. It's classic Arsenal football and Cesc is just brilliant at it.

I also wouldn't be too quick to compare defensive midfields just yet. Diarra and Emerson is a very new partnership, I'd give them some time before making comparisons.

les Habs

08-28-2006, 07:11 PM

I'm not saying that Iniesta doesn't have any vision, from what I've seen of him, he's a very good passer.

But Cesc has something special. He just waits for that perfect moment and then releases someone (usually Henry) on a run. It's classic Arsenal football and Cesc is just brilliant at it.

I also wouldn't be too quick to compare defensive midfields just yet. Diarra and Emerson is a very new partnership, I'd give them some time before making comparisons.

Iniesta and Xavi often make the very pass you're talking about.

I agree they're a new partnership. Still Barça's midfield has three guys. So you've already got a 1 man advantage. Add to that the fact that no matter who you have in there they are all quite capable defensively. Before Deco came to La Liga he was the leader in Portugal in balls won. Both he, Iniesta and Edmilson won more balls than Diarra in week 1. Besides, I didn't say we were light years ahead. I just think that our 3 CM's are better defensivly than their CM pairing.

helicecopter

08-28-2006, 07:13 PM

I just think that our 3 CM's are better defensivly than their CM pairing.WOW, are you searching for someone going after you here as well?

les Habs

08-28-2006, 07:14 PM

WOW, are you searching for someone going after you here as well?

I'll assume that's your answer to my question.

FlyHigh

08-28-2006, 07:15 PM

Iniesta and Xavi often make the very pass you're talking about.

I agree they're a new partnership. Still Barça's midfield has three guys. So you've already got a 1 man advantage. Add to that the fact that no matter who you have in there they are all quite capable defensively. Before Deco came to La Liga he was the leader in Portugal in balls won. Both he, Iniesta and Edmilson won more balls than Diarra in week 1. Besides, I didn't say we were light years ahead. I just think that our 3 CM's are better defensivly than their CM pairing.

I admit that I haven't seen Iniesta as much, but when I've seen Xavi with the national team, I've never seen him do the things that Cesc can do.

I don't see why you are arguing so much about the defensive midfield. I'd argue that when both are on form Emerson and Diarra are better defensively than Iniesta or Xavi for certain, but you'd probably disagree with me.

The bottom line is goals conceded though and right now it's Madrid 0 and Barca 2.

helicecopter

08-28-2006, 07:18 PM

I'll assume that's your answer to my question.Nice assumption!:D

les Habs

08-28-2006, 07:21 PM

I admit that I haven't seen Iniesta as much, but when I've seen Xavi with the national team, I've never seen him do the things that Cesc can do.

I don't see why you are arguing so much about the defensive midfield. I'd argue that when both are on form Emerson and Diarra are better defensively than Iniesta or Xavi for certain, but you'd probably disagree with me.

The bottom line is goals conceded though and right now it's Madrid 0 and Barca 2.

Then you should try watching him with Barça if you don't think he can make that pass.

I wasn't arguing. I made a point and the guy lost his rag. I agree that when both are on form they're better individually than Iniesta or Xavi. What I was saying though is that a midfield of Xavi-Edmilson-Deco is better defensively than a midfield of Diarra-Emerson. Actually Iniesta-Edmilson-Deco would be the best for Barça, but despite today's match that trio isn't preferred by the manager.

:shakehead Yeah, and Madrid conceding no goals is all down to Diarra and Emerson. I expected that line of thinking, though not from you. That doesn't take into account any number of factors. I'd be willing to bet that Madrid concede less goals than us this season (which will be the first time in at least 2 years and probably more). Still it'll be down to a lot more than just Emerson and Diarra. Notice how many goals Madrid scored and you'll be on the right track.

les Habs

08-28-2006, 07:22 PM

Nice assumption!:D

Then we simply disagree.

FlyHigh

08-28-2006, 07:27 PM

Then you should try watching him with Barça if you don't think he can make that pass.

I wasn't arguing. I made a point and the guy lost his rag. I agree that when both are on form they're better individually than Iniesta or Xavi. What I was saying though is that a midfield of Xavi-Edmilson-Deco is better defensively than a midfield of Diarra-Emerson. Actually Iniesta-Edmilson-Deco would be the best for Barça, but despite today's match that trio isn't preferred by the manager.

:shakehead Yeah, and Madrid conceding no goals is all down to Diarra and Emerson. I expected that line of thinking, though not from you. That doesn't take into account any number of factors. I'd be willing to bet that Madrid concede less goals than us this season (which will be the first time in at least 2 years and probably more). Still it'll be down to a lot more than just Emerson and Diarra. Notice how many goals Madrid scored and you'll be on the right track.

My Madrid comment was based on their overall defense, not defensive midfield, of course Diarra and Emerson aren't responsible for all of it. A pairing of Ramos and Cannavaro helps an awful lot as well. ;)

I just feel that your argument itself is a little bit flawed. Madrid and Barca play different systems and just because Madrid only employ two central midfielders doesn't mean that their defensive midfield is any worse than Barca's.

I'm not getting into the Cesc argument again. I think that most football fans would agree that Cesc is significantly better than Xavi and Iniesta right now. Evilo even said that he'd trade both of them for Cesc IIRC. I think it's a stupid argument. I love Cesc at Arsenal and I'm sure you love Xavi and Iniesta at Barca, no need for us to argue about them.

les Habs

08-28-2006, 07:33 PM

My Madrid comment was based on their overall defense, not defensive midfield, of course Diarra and Emerson aren't responsible for all of it. A pairing of Ramos and Cannavaro helps an awful lot as well. ;)

I just feel that your argument itself is a little bit flawed. Madrid and Barca play different systems and just because Madrid only employ two central midfielders doesn't mean that their defensive midfield is any worse than Barca's.

I'm not getting into the Cesc argument again. I think that most football fans would agree that Cesc is significantly better than Xavi and Iniesta right now. Evilo even said that he'd trade both of them for Cesc IIRC. I think it's a stupid argument. I love Cesc at Arsenal and I'm sure you love Xavi and Iniesta at Barca, no need for us to argue about them.

That's great that you meant the overall defense, but that wasn't what we were talking about. :banghead: This is the same thing that happened in the last discussion.

Yet you seem to be implying that my argument is based solely on the number of CM's, which it's not and hasn't been in this present discussion. Yes, both sides do play different systems. THANK GOD for that!

I think you'd find that you would find that most football fans think he's better. Significantly better though? Now that's funny. Arse fans probably. I recall what Evilo said quite clearly and that does NOTHING for your argument about most football fans.

I agree though, no need to argue about them. I was just mentioning it and you responded.

FlyHigh

08-28-2006, 07:37 PM

That's great that you meant the overall defense, but that wasn't what we were talking about. :banghead: This is the same thing that happened in the last discussion.

Yet you seem to be implying that my argument is based solely on the number of CM's, which it's not and hasn't been in this present discussion. Yes, both sides do play different systems. THANK GOD for that!

I think you'd find that you would find that most football fans think he's better. Significantly better though? Now that's funny. Arse fans probably. I recall what Evilo said quite clearly and that does NOTHING for your argument about most football fans.

I agree though, no need to argue about them. I was just mentioning it and you responded.

I think this calls for a poll perhaps?

I still don't get your argument about Barca having the better defensive midfield. The way I see it, Barca usually play 4-3-3 with Edmilson anchoring a combination of Xavi and Deco and Iniesta will usually come in for Edmilson.

This is different than the Madrid 4-4-2 where they have Diarra and Emerson in the middle with Beckham on the right and Robinho? on the left. Overall, I'd rank the defensive abilities of those two midfields about the same (Beckham is much better defensively than many give him credit for and he's a very hard worker).

Of course, I'd rather have Barca's midfield, but that's another story.:D

les Habs

08-28-2006, 07:45 PM

I think this calls for a poll perhaps?

I still don't get your argument about Barca having the better defensive midfield. The way I see it, Barca usually play 4-3-3 with Edmilson anchoring a combination of Xavi and Deco and Iniesta will usually come in for Edmilson.

This is different than the Madrid 4-4-2 where they have Diarra and Emerson in the middle with Beckham on the right and Robinho? on the left. Overall, I'd rank the defensive abilities of those two midfields about the same (Beckham is much better defensively than many give him credit for and he's a very hard worker).

Of course, I'd rather have Barca's midfield, but that's another story.:D

Well the argument at the time didn't include Robinho or Becks. Also, Robinho is a bench player under Capello (and Cicinho is rumoured to be on the block, though that's likely media speculation). Cassano and Raul start along with Beckham. Anyway, we were discussing the comparison I made.

I'd rate them about even myself. When I say that Barça's is better if you ask me, AGAIN I'm not saying it's light years better or anything.

I agree on Becks. He's a very hard worker and that's why he's more popular with the Merengues in Madrid than he is with many of them that I've encountered outside of Madrid.

I'd rather have plenty of teams' midfields. They still haven't addressed the one need they really needed and that was bringing somebody who can really move the ball.

As for Cesc, don't take me the wrong way. I think the kid is phenomonal. I also think that Iniesta is as good though. To be honest, the two of them along with Xavi are similar in some respects. Barça produce these sort of guys all the time. It'd be great if every position required a player of this sort because they seem to grow on trees at Barça. I do HATE Cesc though! :D

FlyHigh

08-28-2006, 07:51 PM

Well the argument at the time didn't include Robinho or Becks. Also, Robinho is a bench player under Capello (and Cicinho is rumoured to be on the block, though that's likely media speculation). Cassano and Raul start along with Beckham. Anyway, we were discussing the comparison I made.

I'd rate them about even myself. When I say that Barça's is better if you ask me, AGAIN I'm not saying it's light years better or anything.

I agree on Becks. He's a very hard worker and that's why he's more popular with the Merengues in Madrid than he is with many of them that I've encountered outside of Madrid.

I'd rather have plenty of teams' midfields. They still haven't addressed the one need they really needed and that was bringing somebody who can really move the ball.

As for Cesc, don't take me the wrong way. I think the kid is phenomonal. I also think that Iniesta is as good though. To be honest, the two of them along with Xavi are similar in some respects. Barça produce these sort of guys all the time. It'd be great if every position required a player of this sort because they seem to grow on trees at Barça.

If Madrid had any brains, they'd fulfill my dream and send Robinho to Arsenal for Reyes. I actually think that this deal would be fantastic for both teams. If Capello isn't going to use Robinho, then Reyes slots in perfectly on the left side of that midfield and he would be fantastic in La Liga.

Robinho is perfect for Wengerball as well. We'd probably even throw in Adebayor if Madrid wanted him.

I don't think it will happen, but a lot of us still dream of Robinho coming to AG.

les Habs

08-28-2006, 07:55 PM

If Madrid had any brains, they'd fulfill my dream and send Robinho to Arsenal for Reyes. I actually think that this deal would be fantastic for both teams. If Capello isn't going to use Robinho, then Reyes slots in perfectly on the left side of that midfield and he would be fantastic in La Liga.

Robinho is perfect for Wengerball as well. We'd probably even throw in Adebayor if Madrid wanted him.

I don't think it will happen, but a lot of us still dream of Robinho coming to AG.

Cassano is Capello's man on the left. The thing is that he doesn't need or want Reyes if you ask me. He also likes Raul and hence the pair of them starting.

I don't get the Robinho obsession. I'd try and offer Reyes plus cash for Casillas if I'm Arsenal. I think Capello would consider that, though his bosses would never allow it. The Bernabeu would go down in flames.

AG? You mean ES. :sarcasm:

FlyHigh

08-28-2006, 07:58 PM

Cassano is Capello's man on the left. The thing is that he doesn't need or want Reyes if you ask me. He also likes Raul and hence the pair of them starting.

I don't get the Robinho obsession. I'd try and offer Reyes plus cash for Casillas if I'm Arsenal. I think Capello would consider that, though his bosses would never allow it. The Bernabeu would go down in flames.

AG? You mean ES. :sarcasm:

I don't see why, the Cassano I know is a striker, not a wing player.

I'd love to see Casillas, but there's no way we offer Reyes and cash and no way that Madrid parts with Casillas anyways.

Robinho is definitely overhyped, but he's still a tremendously skilled player and I'd really like to see him. Of course, Wenger probably bought Walcott as Robinho's replacement, so I doubt that we'll see him.

les Habs

08-28-2006, 08:07 PM

I don't see why, the Cassano I know is a striker, not a wing player.

I'd love to see Casillas, but there's no way we offer Reyes and cash and no way that Madrid parts with Casillas anyways.

Robinho is definitely overhyped, but he's still a tremendously skilled player and I'd really like to see him. Of course, Wenger probably bought Walcott as Robinho's replacement, so I doubt that we'll see him.

He's playing more advanced. He's in more of a Ronaldinho role than he is a wing role.

Well that was in a fantasy world as I don't see Madrid parting with the player. Still if they would and you could get him for Reyes and a reasonable amount of cash then it'd be a smart deal if you're Arsenal.

I don't think you need Robinho. He'd fit in better at Arsenal though, that's for sure.

FlyHigh

08-28-2006, 08:18 PM

He's playing more advanced. He's in more of a Ronaldinho role than he is a wing role.

Well that was in a fantasy world as I don't see Madrid parting with the player. Still if they would and you could get him for Reyes and a reasonable amount of cash then it'd be a smart deal if you're Arsenal.

I don't think you need Robinho. He'd fit in better at Arsenal though, that's for sure.

We don't need Robinho, I just like him a lot. We already have too many strikers and wing players though.

I've always seen Cassano at striker or in the hole, but he's always played centrally, putting him out on the left will really hamper Madrid's width I think.

I don't like Capello's formation to be honest, I don't think he's using his players correctly or to the best of their abilites. It seems very unbalanced to me.

les Habs

08-29-2006, 12:53 AM

Actually FH, Cassano's been really doing well under Capello. A lot of ?'s over his substitution over the weekend.

Helice, just got done with the first half (I need sleep so I'll catch the second half tomorrow night). Anyway, Messi was really good and Iniesta was also quite good. Deco as well as he seems in a rich vein of form right now. If I do ratings I'll post them tomorrow.

Strizzi

08-29-2006, 01:18 AM

Valencia has a tight lineup, but I wonder if Morientes still has any gas left in the tank. Last season was pretty brutal.He seems to be clicking really well with Villa.

helicecopter

08-29-2006, 04:08 AM

Well the argument at the time didn't include Robinho or Becks. Also, Robinho is a bench player under Capello (and Cicinho is rumoured to be on the block, though that's likely media speculation). Cassano and Raul start along with Beckham. So that means Capello is not using a 4-4-2 at the moment and that's logic considering he has 3 players like Cassano, Robinho and Raul..he doesn't want to leave out two of them everytime.

I've always seen Cassano at striker or in the hole, but he's always played centrally, putting him out on the left will really hamper Madrid's width I think.Mmh.. actually Cassano usually didn't play in the middle in the past. He can play center forward under emergency circumstances and obviously (offensively) he could play in the middle behind the strikers, but he has rarely given that position in the past (Capello doesn't like to have a man in the middle that is not playing as a striker that doesn't defend much ). So he is going to be used as second forward or as a striker on the left.. he can't play as left midfielder in a 4-4-2, but this one:

----------------Ruud-------------
------------------------Raul-------
-------Cassano---------------------

is one of the two most fitting positions for him.

Actually FH, Cassano's been really doing well under Capello. A lot of ?'s over his substitution over the weekend.That's not surprising at all. Stil, it's nice to read confirmation from you and see it's not only Italian media's bias affecting their reports.

FlyHigh

08-29-2006, 09:33 AM

So that means Capello is not using a 4-4-2 at the moment and that's logic considering he has 3 players like Cassano, Robinho and Raul..he doesn't want to leave out two of them everytime.

Mmh.. actually Cassano usually didn't play in the middle in the past. He can play center forward under emergency circumstances and obviously (offensively) he could play in the middle behind the strikers, but he has rarely given that position in the past (Capello doesn't like to have a man in the middle that is not playing as a striker that doesn't defend much ). So he is going to be used as second forward or as a striker on the left.. he can't play as left midfielder in a 4-4-2, but this one:

----------------Ruud-------------
------------------------Raul-------
-------Cassano---------------------

is one of the two most fitting positions for him.

That's not surprising at all. Stil, it's nice to read confirmation from you and see it's not only Italian media's bias affecting their reports.

I hope for his own good that it works out well for him, but what kind of formation are Madrid playing anyways?

I was under the impression that it was...

-------------------Ruud----------
------------------Raul--------------------
----Cassano-------------------Beckham
--------------Emerson---Diarra-----------
---Carlos---Cannavaro---Ramos---Salgado
------------------Casillas-----------

I think this formation is wrong and I think that Guti should start for them because I haven't really seen them replace Zidane's creativity.

EDIT: My whole point with that formation was to show that it looks like Cassano is just playing in an advanced midfield role.

helicecopter

08-29-2006, 11:31 AM

I hope for his own good that it works out well for him, but what kind of formation are Madrid playing anyways?

I was under the impression that it was...

-------------------Ruud------------------
------------------Raul--------------------
----Cassano-------------------Beckham----
--------------Emerson---Diarra------------
----Carlos---Cannavaro---Ramos---Salgado-
------------------Casillas-------------

I think this formation is wrong and I think that Guti should start for them because I haven't really seen them replace Zidane's creativity.

EDIT: My whole point with that formation was to show that it looks like Cassano is just playing in an advanced midfield role.Judging from the starting 11 i've read i think they are playing this way:

-------------------Ruud----------------
---------Cassano--------Raul--------------
-------------------------------------------
----------Emerson----------Beckham----
--------------------Diarra---------------
----Carlos---Cannavaro---Ramos---Salgado-
------------------Casillas-----------------

FlyHigh

08-29-2006, 11:32 AM

helicecopter

08-29-2006, 11:46 AM

If they are playing that, then Beckham is getting completely misused.I don't get why.

FlyHigh

08-29-2006, 11:52 AM

I don't get why.

Because Beckham's main strength is his crossing. He's not a particularly good tackler and he's a decent passer, but nothing too special.

He's best when he's put out on the wing where he can just put in perfect crosses for Ruud and I don't think he will be crossing as much if he plays in that formation unless Capello has told him to play a little bit wider.

The problem is that while Beckham is meant to be a wing player, he no longer has the legs for it, so Madrid are caught between a rock and a hard place.

I'm not sure what the solution to the Beckham problem is, they could always put him on the bench I guess, I will try to think of a formation where he is used more effectively.

EDIT: I forgot to say that I've always been curious to see how he'd do as an RB. He's played it a little bit before and he's already pretty good defensively, he might just have to work on his tackling a little bit. But if he were an RB, I think that he could could be fairly effective. If he did that, you could also put Guti in the squad.

-------------------Ruud----------------
---------Cassano--------Raul--------------
-------------------------------------------
----------Emerson----------Guti----
--------------------Diarra---------------
----Carlos---Cannavaro---Ramos---Beckham-
------------------Casillas-----------------

xalcyx

08-29-2006, 12:32 PM

guti is still on that team??

:biglaugh: :biglaugh:

FlyHigh

08-29-2006, 01:00 PM

guti is still on that team??

:biglaugh: :biglaugh:

I actually rate Guti pretty highly, he's a pretty skilled player, I was hoping he would come to Arsenal a couple years ago. It's not Guti's fault that he was stuck behind Zidane for a long time.

les Habs

08-29-2006, 06:25 PM

Judging from the starting 11 i've read i think they are playing this way:

-------------------Ruud----------------
---------Cassano--------Raul--------------
-------------------------------------------
----------Emerson----------Beckham----
--------------------Diarra---------------
----Carlos---Cannavaro---Ramos---Salgado-
------------------Casillas-----------------

That's more like it.

So that means Capello is not using a 4-4-2 at the moment and that's logic considering he has 3 players like Cassano, Robinho and Raul..he doesn't want to leave out two of them everytime.

Mmh.. actually Cassano usually didn't play in the middle in the past. He can play center forward under emergency circumstances and obviously (offensively) he could play in the middle behind the strikers, but he has rarely given that position in the past (Capello doesn't like to have a man in the middle that is not playing as a striker that doesn't defend much ). So he is going to be used as second forward or as a striker on the left.. he can't play as left midfielder in a 4-4-2, but this one:

----------------Ruud-------------
------------------------Raul-------
-------Cassano---------------------

is one of the two most fitting positions for him.

That's not surprising at all. Stil, it's nice to read confirmation from you and see it's not only Italian media's bias affecting their reports.

No, he's not using a 4-4-2.

He is playing well, but thus far it's largely been preseason. Still he did well over the weekend.

FlyHigh

08-29-2006, 06:26 PM

les Habs

08-29-2006, 06:27 PM

EDIT: I forgot to say that I've always been curious to see how he'd do as an RB. He's played it a little bit before and he's already pretty good defensively, he might just have to work on his tackling a little bit. But if he were an RB, I think that he could could be fairly effective. If he did that, you could also put Guti in the squad.

-------------------Ruud----------------
---------Cassano--------Raul--------------
-------------------------------------------
----------Emerson----------Guti----
--------------------Diarra---------------
----Carlos---Cannavaro---Ramos---Beckham-
------------------Casillas-----------------

YES PLEASE!!!

FlyHigh

08-29-2006, 06:31 PM

YES PLEASE!!!

Yeah, he wouldn't play there against Ronaldinho, but against most of the rest of La Liga, I could see it.

les Habs

08-29-2006, 06:33 PM

LH, I've seen the Barca-Celta game and I really wasn't too impressed with Barca to be honest. Their play was too slow. Also, I think the first goal should have been offside because Giuly was in an offside position obstructing Contreras even though Giuly didn't score the ball, he stopped Contreras from getting to Messi's (excellent) pass.

Iniesta was pretty good though. Great play by him for the 2nd goal although he also did have a pretty bad giveaway near his own box in about the 32nd minute.

I've only seen the first half, though I did see the goals. I'll have to check for Guily tonight.

Iniesta did get caught in possession at that exact moment. Really the only bad move from him in the first half IIRC. MOM from many what many Cules have said. First half had good performances from Messi, Iniesta and Deco. Deco made a bad pass that resulted in a breakaway and a shot on goal in the first half. Still both players were back all the way to our box defending and working hard. Motta was nowhere though. Waste of space, literally.

First half Barça weren't great. I wouldn't take too much away from Celta though. They worked hard and were organized well defensively. They also played with 9 guys behind the ball nearly the entire time. I wouldn't say Barça were slow either. Celta just packed the defense and focused on the breakaway. First half was pretty awful from Gio as Gustavo Lopez took him to the cleaners with every run. Nene had him moments as well.

les Habs

08-29-2006, 06:35 PM

Yeah, he wouldn't play there against Ronaldinho, but against most of the rest of La Liga, I could see it.

I could see it too, and honestly it wouldn't go well for Madrid. He'd be eaten alive much more often than not. Capello'd do better keeping Cicinho on the park. Still he'll likely play Salgado unless he moves Ramos over, though I wouldn't expect Ramos shifted to RB.

FlyHigh

08-29-2006, 06:40 PM

I've only seen the first half, though I did see the goals. I'll have to check for Guily tonight.

Iniesta did get caught in possession at that exact moment. Really the only bad move from him in the first half IIRC. MOM from many what many Cules have said. First half had good performances from Messi, Iniesta and Deco. Deco made a bad pass that resulted in a breakaway and a shot on goal in the first half. Still both players were back all the way to our box defending and working hard. Motta was nowhere though. Waste of space, literally.

First half Barça weren't great. I wouldn't take too much away from Celta though. They worked hard and were organized well defensively. They also played with 9 guys behind the ball nearly the entire time. I wouldn't say Barça were slow either. Celta just packed the defense and focused on the breakaway. First half was pretty awful from Gio as Gustavo Lopez took him to the cleaners with every run. Nene had him moments as well.

Gustavo Lopez was really good all game for Celta.

I'd probably give Deco MOTM, but Iniesta was a very close 2nd.

FlyHigh

08-29-2006, 06:41 PM

I could see it too, and honestly it wouldn't go well for Madrid. He'd be eaten alive much more often than not. Capello'd do better keeping Cicinho on the park. Still he'll likely play Salgado unless he moves Ramos over, though I wouldn't expect Ramos shifted to RB.

Doesn't hurt to experiment, he did pretty well there for England although that was against the likes of Jamaica and Hungary.

les Habs

08-29-2006, 06:45 PM

Gustavo Lopez was really good all game for Celta.

I'd probably give Deco MOTM, but Iniesta was a very close 2nd.

I'd give it to Deco in the first half so far. Can't say about the whole match yet.

Doesn't hurt to experiment, he did pretty well there for England although that was against the likes of Jamaica and Hungary.

Actually Capello (still holding off on calling him "Crapello") doesn't have much room to experiment if you ask me. The supporters are already... let's say annoyed. He slots Becks at RB and they do poorly (regardless of how Becks performs) and they'll really be... annoyed (though it'll be worse than that).

FlyHigh

08-29-2006, 06:47 PM

Actually Capello (still holding off on calling him "Crapello") doesn't have much room to experiment if you ask me. The supporters are already... let's say annoyed. He slots Becks at RB and they do poorly (regardless of how Becks performs) and they'll really be... annoyed (though it'll be worse than that).

Well after all, Madrid hasn't won any titles for a whole big 3 years. I'm surprised that their supporters aren't in open revolution yet.

les Habs

08-29-2006, 06:55 PM

Well after all, Madrid hasn't won any titles for a whole big 3 years. I'm surprised that their supporters aren't in open revolution yet.

Well their patience has been tested, that's for sure. Calderon isn't helping with all of his broken promises and Capello isn't helping either with his brand of "football".

FlyHigh

08-29-2006, 06:57 PM

Well their patience has been tested, that's for sure. Calderon isn't helping with all of his broken promises and Capello isn't helping either with his brand of "football".

Calderon is an idiot, but at least he leaves the football decisions up to different people. And every Madrid president was making promises.

Capello may not play the most attractive football, but at least he wins.

les Habs

08-29-2006, 07:01 PM

Calderon is an idiot, but at least he leaves the football decisions up to different people. And every Madrid president was making promises.

Capello may not play the most attractive football, but at least he wins.

Some candidates were more realistic than others. A guy who promises Kaka, Cesc and Robben though? I think he said he knew where the weapons of mass destruction were in Iraq too.

Most of the time.

FlyHigh

08-29-2006, 07:12 PM

Some candidates were more realistic than others. A guy who promises Kaka, Cesc and Robben though? I think he said he knew where the weapons of mass destruction were in Iraq too.

Most of the time.

Somebody else said that he already had Wenger signed...

les Habs

08-29-2006, 07:14 PM

Somebody else said that he already had Wenger signed...

And somebody else promised Iniesta. Anyway, one guy (and I forgot who) had the most realistic options in terms of players who would actually come.

FlyHigh

08-29-2006, 07:15 PM

And somebody else promised Iniesta. Anyway, one guy (and I forgot who) had the most realistic options in terms of players who would actually come.

And that guy probably finished last.

les Habs

08-29-2006, 07:19 PM

And that guy probably finished last.

:biglaugh: You get the picture.

les Habs

08-30-2006, 01:22 AM

Well this match was all about getting the result, and we did. Tough loss for Celta. They were well organized defensively and worked hard throughout. Some nice play from the likes of Gustavo Lopez and Nene. I thought we did well enough considering that they had 9 guys behind the ball prety much at all times. Our first goal was definitely offsides by Giuly. Had he not gone to play the ball I think it would have been fine, though his hesitation is what I think fooled the linesman.

Rijkaard really needs to get the lineup down. Motta has no business starting unless we have major injury problems. I also fail to see why Gio is starting considering Sylvinho's preseason form. We definitely could have used some penetration up the flanks from our backs. I also think that Rijkaard needs to do some strategic rotating right now as some of the players still look tired.

It's pointless having Motta out there. He did virtually nothing. Nothing. Iniesta did more defensively and based on that alone he should take Motta's spot and Xavi should be played. Add to that the fact that Iniesta already has to backtrack to get the ball from the defense since Motta can't even handle that responsibilty.

Valdes - 6 - Nothing special really. Definitely can't blame him on the first since he was left hanging.

Zambrotta - 5.5 - I'd say that the bad and good nearly cancelled one another out. He was up against one of their better players in Nene and I'd say that Nene got the best of him in the end, though not by a lot. That foul on their second goal was unnecessary, but he seemed convinced of a dive. I'd like to have seen a replay. It looked like he might have caught him, but Nene definitely went down easily enough. Either way, I'd like to have seen Zambrotta get forward more, though Nene kept him at home.

Marquez - 6.5 - I thought he had a fine match, other than the first goal. He looked amateurish on that play. As for the second goal, I don't know where he was though I'm not sure Lopez was his mark. Anyway, other than the first goal I thought he did pretty well. He cut out a number of crosses, corners and passes.

Puyol - 7 - Blocked a couple of shots by charging them down. I thought he did well enough when he needed to get involved, but I don't think he was stellar.

Gio - 5 - He was owned by Gustavo Lopez time and again down the left. Celta kept attacking that left side with Lopez and were successful throughout in doing so. He offered little.

Iniesta - 8.5 - Definitely showed why he should be a starter. He was everywhere and constantly involved in the match. His only real mistake was giving up possession deep in our area. Other than that though he was quite good. He held possession really well and he really did his part in moving the ball around. He looked like Xavi again with one of those just turn around and go the other way moves. He also defended well and did a lot more defensively than Motta. Really nice run on the second goal. He had a man on his back the entire run, yet he still sidestepped a Celta player freezing the guy in place. Then as the run continued he drew two more players who converged on him along with the trailing player. Iniesta laid it off at the last moment just before they converged. Great timing and he ended up drawing at least one guy who could have had a shot at closing down Messi.

Motta - 4 - Was he even on the pitch in the first half?

Deco - 8.5 - He really did it all in this one as well. He made some nice runs, kept possession well and did his job defensively well enough. Some real skill by him as he made a couple of Celta players look foolish. One of those plays, a sidestep, was when he took the ball forward and laid it off for Iniesta on the second goal. I thought he did well in picking out Eidur for the winner too. Forced a good save from Pinto in the first. Definitely the leader out there for us in this game.

Giuly - 5 - Really didn't see much of the ball, but then he really didn't do a helluva lot to get the ball either. Deservedly subbed.

Eto'o - 7.5 - He worked hard in this one on both sides of the ball. I didn't like it when he was isolated out on the flank and would have preferred him being a bit more... forceful. Still he took his goal really well. Definitely played his part.

Messi - 8.5 - He really stepped up for this one. He had his goal and his assist, but he really hustled out there. Glad to see him do some defending in this one and Giuly could have learned from the kid's example in this one. He was all over the place up front. Drew his share of fouls and held possession well with his dribbling. Nice give in the give and go on Eto'o's goal. Better yet though was the way he took his goal. Iniesta did well, but Messi still had work to do. Turning to the side he did not only turned the defender that was on him, but it also took him away from the defender that was coming over to help.

Edmilson - 7 - A definite improvement over Motta. Did twice as much defensively in less than half the time. He also was involved offensively where Motta wasn't. Solid performance.

Gudjohnsen - 7.5 - Really did well on his goal. He kept his concentration pulling the second opportunity out of the air with a needed strong finish with the volley. Add to that the fact that a Celta player was closing in on him. Apart from that he missed another chance that I thought he could have done better with (though I didn't expect him to score from it). I thought he was hustling.

MOM? I'd say it was a tie between Deco and Iniesta and almost Messi. Tough to call.

les Habs

08-30-2006, 01:27 AM

You guys can check the first post in this thread for the current table. Click on the teams to get their match results on their team pages.

BTW, Sevilla thrashed Levante tonight.

DevilFisch

08-30-2006, 11:15 AM

BTW, Sevilla thrashed Levante tonight.

Sevilla comes to Anoeta to play Real Sociedad on Sunday, Sept. 10. A long wait to host a team who pounded Levante 4-0. Awwwwwwwww, crap.

Ajacied

08-30-2006, 02:43 PM

Apparantly Ronaldhino and Rijkaard seem to have had some arguements this past week. Rijkaard isn't happy about the way Ronaldhino is handling the media.

Luc

08-30-2006, 03:30 PM

Is Ronaldhino playing next game?

Mann, I really wanted to see Fabio Cannavaro in Barcelona!!

helicecopter

09-05-2006, 01:44 PM

Hell YES!!! :yo: :yo:

Sky Italia finally announced they signed a new deal for La Liga's TV rights and they will start brodcasting Spanish league's games as soon as this upcoming weekend!
I was livid enough with them after i couldn't see anything of the first day..

i don't remember being this pumped for a foreign league like this year for La Liga. :jump:
(I would have hated to not be able to watch Messi, Aguero, Cassano and Robinho.)

Bubbles

09-05-2006, 02:08 PM

(I would have hated to not be able to watch Messi, Aguero, Cassano and Robinho.)

You forgot Sobis! ;)

helicecopter

09-05-2006, 02:57 PM

You forgot Sobis! ;):eek: True! :yo:

FlyHigh

09-05-2006, 03:18 PM

helicecopter

09-05-2006, 04:16 PM

That Ronaldinho guy isn't too bad either. ;)Obviously there are many other great players to watch, but those five are probably the ones i'm more eager to see.
(maybe i'm forgetting other youngsters though...
ehm yes, Iniesta being an example)

FlyHigh

09-05-2006, 04:22 PM

Obviously there are many other great players to watch, but those five are probably the ones i'm more eager to see.
(maybe i'm forgetting other youngsters though...
ehm yes, Iniesta being an example)

I know, I was just having a laugh with you.

les Habs

09-07-2006, 03:59 PM

Here are the upcoming weekend fixtures:

Saturday, September 9, 2006
TIME HOME AWAY VENUE
19:00 UK Barcelona v Osasuna Estadio Camp Nou
21:00 UK Atlético Madrid v Valencia Vicente Calderon

Sunday, September 10, 2006
TIME HOME AWAY VENUE
18:00 UK Getafe v Racing Santander Coliseum Alfonso Perez
18:00 UK Gimnastic de Tarragona v Celta Vigo Nou Estadi
18:00 UK Levante v Real Madrid Ciudad de Valencia
18:00 UK Mallorca v Deportivo La Coruña Estadio Son Moix
18:00 UK Real Betis v Athletic Bilbao Estadio Santiago Bernabéu
18:00 UK Real Sociedad v FC Sevilla Estadio Anoeta
18:00 UK Villarreal v Recreativo Huelva Estadio El Madrigal
20:00 UK Real Zaragoza v Espanyol Estadio La Romareda

Some interesting matches. Saturday's fixtures look to be the most enticing of the weekend.

Osasuna are a due a win at this point, so they could prove a problem for Barça. Still it's the first home match at the Camp Nou so I'm expecting a win.

Atletico Madrid have the opportunity to show everyone that they're for real as they face off against Valencia.

Don't forget that the first post in this thread has the current table as well as the Pichichi standings and team pages.

les Habs

09-07-2006, 04:14 PM

I forgot to mention another loss for Barça. Barça were beaten by Espanyol for the Copa Catalunya. It's a very small tournament with the same two teams usually competing in the final. This year's fixture was moved and the match was played this past Tuesday night whilst most of our regulars were out on International duty. Espanyol on the other hand was able to field a strong side very representative of their starting XI. Here was Barça's XI:

-------------Jorquera-----------
Belletti--Oleguer-Olmo--Sylvinho
--------------Motta-------------
---------Crosas---Sastre--------
---Giuly-------------Ezquerro---
-------------Saviola------------

To some extent that's a strong side and for this fixture I won't use the International week as an excuse (though it's somewhat valid). The problem with the above lineup is that you don't have enough players who can pass the ball. Basically Crosas is your best option. The left side is also very weak (and I hate Ezquerro). So that leaves you with too little a supply of the ball if you ask me and not a very strong midfield. In the end Belletti provided an assist from what I hear, to an Espanyol player. Espanyol won 1-0.

On a side note I read that late in the game Giuly blasted over his 4th chance of the match over the bar. When the cameras panned to the bench they showed both Rijkaard and Eusebio laughing. I'm sure that not many folks in BCN will appreciate that.

helicecopter

09-07-2006, 05:26 PM

I assume that your new found La Liga coverage will have that match.

Well as was mentioned in the other thread, strange things happen in Spain. Sobis might indeed play for both teams this weekend. :D

helicecopter

09-07-2006, 05:42 PM

***!!! Moderator abuse here!!
My post was deleted for no reasons whatsoever!! :madfire: :rant: :madfire: :soap: :madfire:

les Habs

09-07-2006, 05:47 PM

***!!! Moderator abuse here!!
My post was deleted for no reasons whatsoever!! :madfire: :rant: :madfire: :soap: :madfire:

:biglaugh: I told you that any propaganda regarding Robinho needs to go in it's own thread!

OK, again my apologies to Helice. Consider this my disclaimer that in this thread I have now more than once found myself editing a post (well in Helice's case anyway :biglaugh: ) when I meant to quote it. So please be patient as I still have yet to learn the difference between the two buttons. :blush:

helicecopter

09-07-2006, 05:51 PM

:biglaugh:

Now at least you have to summarize with your own words what i stated in my deleted meaningful message!

les Habs

09-07-2006, 06:04 PM

:biglaugh:

Now at least you have to summarize with your own words what i stated in my deleted meaningful message!

Helice expressed excitement with the Atletico - Valencia fixture. My guess is that his new found TV coverage of La Liga may have something to do with this.

He also mentioned that Sobis was listed for two teams. Of course this is Spain and that should be expected.

helicecopter

09-07-2006, 06:13 PM

Helice expressed excitement with the Atletico - Valencia fixture. My guess is that his new found TV coverage of La Liga may have something to do with this.:D

He also mentioned that Sobis was listed for two teams. Of course this is Spain and that should be expected.:)
However the site making the mistake seems to be American to me :sarcasm:

Evilo

09-08-2006, 12:38 AM

Post undeleted ;)

Strizzi

09-08-2006, 01:10 AM

Atletico Madrid have the opportunity to show everyone that they're for real as they face off against Valencia.Atletico has the disadvantage of being less advanced in the season preparation than Valencia. Aguirre couldn't count on many players until a couple of days ago, and Valencia already had a couple of competitive games. This might balance out the home advantage.

les Habs

09-08-2006, 01:51 AM

Atletico has the disadvantage of being less advanced in the season preparation than Valencia. Aguirre couldn't count on many players until a couple of days ago, and Valencia already had a couple of competitive games. This might balance out the home advantage.

I agree. I wasn't saying that I thought they could win, but if they do it'll be a big win for them.

les Habs

09-08-2006, 01:53 AM

However the site making the mistake seems to be American to me :sarcasm:

It was bought by ESPN, which is American. However it's still quite British. :arr:

helicecopter

09-08-2006, 03:55 AM

Post undeleted ;)lol, those are les Hans' words..( post #140).. it seems his try for a reply is all what was recovered.

FlyHigh

09-08-2006, 11:34 AM

Just asking a favor of the Liga people here. I am going to watch Atletico-Valencia, but I'd rather watch without knowing the score. So feel free to post about it in this thread and I won't go into this thread, but please don't post about it in other threads for like a day. Thanks very much. :)

helicecopter

09-10-2006, 11:46 AM

Nice game for Ayala and Villa. Good to see David Silva start.
Unbelievable red card for Torres. :shakehead
TV shots at Vicente Calderon suck!

some questions:
Why the whistlings against Pablo?
Jurado is on loan from Real or Atletico acquired him?
Maxi Rodriguez, why not starting?
How much Valencia got from selling Aimar?

Ric Flair

09-10-2006, 01:25 PM

I'm hoping that Morientes can put up some good numbers for Valencia this season. He looked good in the one game I saw him play in.

BMann

09-10-2006, 02:41 PM

Helice.Maxi is still recovering from injury & transfer fee for Aimar was 11M euros & well worth it.Plays exactly same role as at Valencia & scored a couple of crackers in friendlies in Holland.

And the card for Torres was poor. The referee must have given it to level things up. I'm expecting Atletico to do better than this. Aguero isnt fully fit either. :(

Strizzi

09-10-2006, 02:50 PM

Jurado is on loan from Real or Atletico acquired him?They acquired him. Takharov already answered the other two question I could have answered as well.

How did Vicente and Silva look? And how's Marchena at DM?

les Habs

09-10-2006, 04:20 PM

Why the whistlings against Pablo?

He was rumoured to be headed to Madrid over the summer having supposedly agreed to a pre-agreement. They said the same thing about Iniesta as well. I think both players remained quiet rather than coming out which has left some believing they should have spoken up.

les Habs

09-10-2006, 04:26 PM

I have yet to watch the Barça match (or the goals for that matter), but two goals for Eto'o. Messi with a goal and I believe an assist with an assist for Ronnie as well. Messi is having a great start to the season. I'll watch it tonight.

helicecopter

09-10-2006, 06:50 PM

How did Vicente and Silva look? And how's Marchena at DM?Vicente was brilliant in some moments during the first half (like on the goal), looked tired in the second.
Silva was not particularly involved but did play well the balls he touched and had a great assist in the second before being substituted after Moretti's ejection.
I think Marchena had a pretty solid match.

Ajacied

09-11-2006, 09:44 AM

Ruud with a hattrick, and he even missed a penalty as well. Nice start for him..

les Habs

09-11-2006, 01:35 PM

Ruud with a hattrick, and he even missed a penalty as well. Nice start for him..

He also drew the foul that made the PK. He did miss an open goal though too. Perfect striker for Beckham to thrive on. Cassano even benefitted from Becks' passing. Definitely better from el Real, but then again it was Levante.

les Habs

09-11-2006, 01:41 PM

Here are the weekend's results. Don't forget that the first page in this thread have the current table and pichichi standings as well as more detailed result information on each team's page.

Saturday's matches:

Atlético 0 - 1 Valencia
Barcelona 3 - 0 Osasuna

Sunday's matches:

Nastic 1 - 2 Celta
Villarreal 0 - 1 Recreativo
Real Sociedad 1 - 3 Sevilla
Getafe 1 - 0 Racing
Mallorca 0 - 0 Depor
Levante 1 - 4 Real Madrid [Van Nistelrooy hat-trick]
Betis 3 - 0 Athletic
Zaragoza 3 - 0 Espanyol

les Habs

09-11-2006, 01:44 PM

I thought I'd also add some columns that I read weekly. Great insight into the game in Spain from both columnists.

This week I'll start with Sid Lowe. Though I've never read it confessed, he seems a Cule to me. A bit of hard hitting column at times, but he always proves a great read. Here's this week's column:

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2006/09/11/camerashy_sevilla_rocket_to_th.html

The Great Unwatched

Sid Lowe

The best team Sevilla have ever had is being kept away from fans by a row with television companies.

September 11, 2006 02:16 PM

As irritating advert after irritating advert proudly announces, it's easier than ever to keep in touch, what with the telly, radio and teletext, internet, blackberries and podcasts, interactive, 3G and real time (real time - now there's an entirely meaningless phrase). Want to know how your team is getting on of a Sunday afternoon? Why not watch other people watch them, refresh an exhilarating list of attacking throw-ins, or whip out a flashy phone and download some jerky reproduction of the goals? Better still, why not just look to the sky?

That, at least, was the choice on offer in San Sebastián this weekend, where Real Sociedad brought back an old tradition to keep their fans in touch. Not carrier pigeons, smoke signals or a Greek geezer running 26 miles with an increasingly sweaty scroll, but rockets. Real rockets.

You see, back in the days when Real Sociedad played at Atotxa, before they moved to the gorgeous but ultimately soulless bowl that is Anoeta, they used to fire rockets into the sky after every goal - two for every one Real Sociedad scored, one for every time the visitors found the net. That way la Real's fans, and especially those fishermen following them from their trawlers out in the Bay of Biscay, knew exactly what was going on. And this weekend, la Real decided to mark their 2,000th game - the 1,000th at home - by bringing back the tradition as they faced Sevilla.

Fireworks and football - it was a nice plan. It was just a shame that all over the city, out on the boats and sizzling on the beach, fans could be heard cooing: "Ooooooh! Aaaaaaah! Oh bugger, there's only one of them." Not once, not twice, but three times. Five rockets shot into the sky, but when a pair finally went up together, the game was already 93 minutes old and Sevilla had scored three, through Renato, Fredi Kanouté and Ivica Dragutinovic. It was a shame that one paper turned to the inevitable cliché, reproducing the Spanish equivalent of nothing to write home about, to declare Real Sociedad "nothing to fire rockets about". It was also a shame that the day's historic moment came not from la Real but from Kanouté, racking up Sevilla's 3,000th goal. And it was even more of a shame that beyond the 20,903 people inside the ground hardly anyone got to see it; that Dragutinovic's 39-metre belter (it says here) has been almost universally missed.

Forget Real Sociedad, who should finish the season in mid-table, this is the best Sevilla side in the club's 100-year history. Uefa Cup winners thanks to a demolition of Middlesbrough and European Super Cup winners after demolishing Barcelona, they are unbeaten since April - a run which also includes 3-2 and 4-2 league victories over Barça and Madrid respectively. They have scored seven goals in two league games so far, 10 in their last three competitive matches, 17 in their last five, and are La Liga's first leaders. They are a tough, powerful, quick side with real width, capable of completely steam-rolling their opposition. They have a coach, Juande Ramos, who may be boring to listen to but has a brilliant record and has made an already excellent side under Joaquín Caparrós more creative. They have arguably the best sporting director in Spain. And they have a squad that boasts the depth and quality to make a real challenge this season - for a Champions League place at the very least.

Unfortunately, they also have a stubborn president with a sense of self-importance as inflated as his head his polished - the former lawyer to the late construction criminal, fraudster and Atlético Madrid president Jesús Gil, José María Del Nido. A man who has declared himself "the second most important man in Seville after the Pope" and recently claimed to be "insulted" by the treatment meted out to Sevilla by Spain's television companies. A man who has retaliated by refusing to allow Sevilla's matches to be televised. By anyone. It's not just Spanish television: despite being part of a collective deal, you won't catch Sevilla on Sky, while American channels have also been banned from showing them. There's not even any provision for highlights packages or goals for news bulletins and round-up shows. Luckily, while Sevilla denied access to any cameras at all in Week 1, Real Sociedad did let cameras in last night. Hand-held ones.

And so it is that the best team Sevilla have ever had is simply going unwatched. So it was that this weekend fans had to watch out for rockets. Or watch Spain's new version of Soccer Saturday, only with intrepid reporter Nacho García sitting on the Anoeta running track rather than Phil Thompson sitting in an Isleworth studio. Or wait for TVE to show the goals thanks to a pitch-side cameraman producing the best footballing home video since Kieron Dyer took his camcorder to Ayia Napa. Or read this morning's papers, with Marca not entirely truthfully declaring: "You can see the game here." Alongside the match report, they added photos and chalkboards that revealed just two things - that Marca's graphics package needs an urgent overhaul and that the little black circle that is Asier Riesgo was horribly out of position.

All of which would be bad enough, but worse could be to come. And for a man like Del Nido, who loves nothing more than acting all superior to those horrible little oiks who go round the city in green and white shirts, it is a major dilemma. Next weekend, Sevilla face local rivals Real Betis. What better way to prove you're the best than by letting the world's cameras in just in time to give them a walloping? Then again, what could be worse than letting them in and losing for the first time in five months? For the first time, in fact, since the last time you played them. Fear and loathing or joy and gloating? The decision, José María, is yours.

helicecopter

09-11-2006, 01:45 PM

He also drew the foul that made the PK. He did miss an open goal though too. Perfect striker for Beckham to thrive on. Cassano even benefitted from Becks' passing..In the first half Beckham had two nice plays (backboard header for Cassano-too bad Raul couldn't benefit from the consequent Cassano's great feed-and long pass for Cassano again) but didn't look good aside from that.
Emerson is another one that looked still behind form.
I missed the second half though.

News on Salgado's injury?

les Habs

09-11-2006, 01:59 PM

The next column comes from Phil Ball. Like Mr. Lowe, Mr. Ball is also a Brit. Mr. Ball is also a confessed Merengue. I noticed it in his columns before I ever read it, then of course he confessed in White Storm (a great book despite it's minor flaws). Like Mr. Lowe, Mr. Ball infuses his columns with bits of Spanish culture that most people aren't aware of. I find it makes for great reading and definitely helps for further comprehension of the culture and how the game fits in. Finally, I have emailed him a few times and received a few replies.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story?id=378891&root=europe&cc=5739

Sep. 11, 2006

The real thing at last

Phil Ball

It didn't feel quite right a couple of weeks back, when the Spanish season officially kicked off. It was still late August, a time when the country is absent both in body and spirit, and the fact that everyone knew that there would be a fortnight's break after those first games seemed to communicate itself to the players and public alike.

Spain is such a ritualistic country, one in which the seasons, the months and the weeks are all significant in terms of fiestas, food and folkiness, that football inevitably plays its part in the annual cycle. The big kick-off is always associated with the end of summer, with 'operación retorno' as they call it here - the big wakey-wakey after the long siesta.

But something fell flat back on August 27, and the games - as well as the public reaction - seemed sluggish. Not so this weekend. The season finally got under way, the kids were back at school on the Monday, and several of the matches had a tasty look about them.

Add to that a fairly turbulent week, in which Spain showed its usual cara y cruz (two sides of the coin) with one representative team winning the basketball World Trophy and the other coming unstuck 3-2 in Northern Ireland. Significant then, that the weekend's most interesting encounter (played on the Saturday night) was Atlético Madrid versus Valencia, two of the sides most expected to challenge the big two this season, both of them sporting players who either figured in the Irish defeat or who should have done.

The game was initially dubbed as the battle of the forwards, with the home side parading the much-lauded Fernando Torres up front, alongside Valencia's ex-pichichi from two seasons ago, Sean Penn look-alike Mista. Both have played for Spain, although it is Torres in whom Luis Aragonés and the public continue to invest their faith, after a World Cup in which the 'Niño' (child) finally seemed to become a man. Well - cometh the evening and he was sent off for a philosophical discussion with the referee, but he didn't play well.

On the sub's bench sat the new Argentine prodigy Kun Agüero, the most talked-up player in history since Saviola. The Calderón was full to its rusty rafters to see his first home appearance, finally setting eyes on the chap in the second half, when he replaced the ineffective Mista, still seemingly confused as to which team he was supposed to be playing for.

On came Agüero to much applause, received the ball and went off on an interesting run, only to be clattered by Albiol, in a sort of 'welcome to La Liga' challenge. He can expect several more before the season is out. Despite the hype, he did look rather good, brightening up the show a little as far as spluttering Atlético were concerned.

What is it about Atlético? A good new manager, good signings over the past two seasons, the legal and financial problems of the Gil era seemingly behind them, they still can't seem to get it together. When and if they do, then Spain beware, because pound for pound they have one of the season's best-looking squads.

Affording themselves the luxury of playing without star signings Joaquín and Del Horno, forgotten man Vicente, out for much of last season with an injury that put paid to his blossoming international career, came back with a vengeance, at least as far as the winning goal was concerned - getting to the bye-line as in days of yore and placing a perfect low cross for man-of-the-moment Villa to stroke home.

Villa was one of the few who escaped with his reputation intact from the Northern Ireland fiasco, and seems determined - unlike his predecessor Mista - not to become a one-season wonder. Small, mobile and clever, Villa made it four goals in eight days - the others coming against Liechtenstein (2) and in Belfast. He has replaced Mista at Valencia, and replaced Morientes (his striking partner on Saturday) in the national team.

Previously at Zaragoza, he now has 58 goals in 112 starts in La Liga - an impressive average which is almost exactly the same as Morientes' 142 in 279 starts. Both of them score about every 1.75 matches (I can't be bothered to work it out exactly), which is basically pretty good.

Ruud Van Nistlerooy's average is even better (over more than 300 games), but of course there were those who said he wouldn't fit into the Spanish scene. Oh ye of little faith! Not only did he manage a hat-trick in his first away game for Real Madrid, he also shouted 'Vamos' after the first one, in fluent Castilian. Clever linguists these Dutch. He also managed to miss a penalty (for which he had been originally fouled), miss an open goal but still complete his hat-trick with a wonderfully cool lob over newly-promoted Levante's unfortunate goalie, Cavallero.

Madrid's 1-4 win was interesting for various reasons, quite apart from Van Nistlerooy's hat-trick, Ronaldo's likely reaction to it this coming week, and the fact that Capello's sides apparently never score goals.

The manager for Levante was none other than López Caro, the man who stepped up from Madrid's reserve side to steady the ship (sort of) after the departure of the little-lamented Luxemburgo. Caro, a decent bloke by all accounts, could have stayed on at the Bernabéu in some capacity, but preferred to burn his bridges, especially when new Director Mijatovic brought in ex-player Michel to manage the reserve side, Castilla.

The long-term policy of training up a past legend to eventually take over the reins was therefore in place, and López Caro, good job though he'd done, was never likely to figure in the new dawn. Good luck to him, since he looks like he might need it at Levante, who have now shipped eight goals in their first two games.

Barcelona don't seem to have let the Supercup defeat get them down in any way, and continue to look just as good as they ever did, rolling over Osasuna in majestic fashion.

Last season the team from Pamplona were the only ones to make a serious go of hanging onto the Catalans' shirt-tails for much of the competition, but so far this season things ain't looking so bright, with two straight defeats to their credit and early elimination from the Champions League.

Eto'o scored twice, surprise surprise, and Messi chipped in with the third, then hit a post. Messi still looks as if someone just let him out of the kindergarten, but if he can manage to stay out of the treatment room this season, then adjective hype collection beware. You may well be stretched to the limit. Saviola, not so long ago spoken of in similar terms, has decided to stay at Barça and fight for his place. A noble sentiment no doubt, but as Messi grows stronger, the comparisons can only become odious. Perhaps Saviola should have shown more savvy, and joined his mates Tévez and Mascherano for a bit of West Ham bubble-blowing. He might have got a few games there at least.

Talking of West Ham, it was interesting to read in the English press this weekend that manager Alan Pardew has entered the 'rush' to sign Deportivo's sidelined striker, the serial moaner Diego Tristan.

It would seem that England's top flight is becoming a repository for ex-Depor players, although the performances of Walter-the-misfiring-'Rifle' Pandiani and Albert Luque in the green and pleasant land might make otherwise sensible people like Pardew think twice. Depor's manager Joaquín Caparros, never one to call a spade an agricultural implement, this week spoke glowingly in terms of one of Spain's finest, describing Tristan as 'talking a good game in the cafes of Coruña. Pity about the football pitch'. England beware.

The England-Spain connection continued to flow this weekend in other ways too, with Reyes making a second-half debut for Real Madrid at Levante. Beckham too (remember him?) set up Madrid's second goal by playing a wonderful 60-yard pass onto Cassano's right foot, after which Capello's old protégé had only to stroke it into an inviting net.

The pass was sublime - but not good enough for England. See anyone pass the ball with any imagination in Macedonia the other night? Can't say I did. Over in London Woodgate made his debut for Middlesbrough at Arsenal, and played extremely well. At one point he was marking his team-mate Julio Baptista, also on loan from Madrid to see if he can prove himself, or put himself in the shop window.

Getafe continue to ride high after beating Racing Santander, which means that Racing continue to ride low. Expect them to struggle this season. Not so Betis, who with their two stars (Oliviera and Joaquín) both gone amidst much wailing and gnashing of teeth, hammered Athletic Bilbao 3-0 in Seville, confirming their possible resurgence under Jabo Irureta - the ex-Depor man brought back out of retirement to try and gel a side with a bucket-load of new signings.

The signs are good so far, as indeed they are for their neighbours Sevilla, who beat the other Basque side real Sociedad 3-1 in San Sebastían, with the TV cameras conspicuous by their absence.

Sevilla's president José María Del Nido, miffed that the TV companies were unprepared to up their offers to televise the UEFA Cup and Supercup winners, decided to withdraw permission for any of them to televise his team's games, including the Pay-Per-View channel. Real Sociedad protested, but were forced to concede on some legal fine-point which escapes everybody else, but there you go.

It probably put an extra thousand on Anoeta's gate, and it was a warm sunny evening. Who wants to watch the game in a smoky bar anyway?

Well, next week it's the clash that makes the two World Wars look like quiet and friendly affairs, Sevilla v Betis. If that's not on the telly, then smoky bars notwithstanding, it might just go nuclear down in Andalucía. La Liga's back!

helicecopter

09-11-2006, 02:43 PM

helicecopter

09-16-2006, 07:21 AM

Weekend schedule?

Ric Flair

09-17-2006, 05:03 PM

Nice to see Morientes with another goal.:yo:

Bubbles

09-17-2006, 09:11 PM

Well, it didn't take long for Sobis and Aguero to shine. Sobis got two in a losing cause, and Aguero got one plus drew a penalty for another. These two are going to be fun to watch.

And Messi too...:sarcasm:

les Habs

09-18-2006, 10:10 PM

Weekend results:

Deportivo 2 - 0 Villarreal
Sevilla 3 - 2 Betis
Zaragoza 2 - 0 Mallorca
Recreativo 0 - 1 Levante
Athletic 1 - 4 Atlético
Valencia 2 - 0 Getafe
Osasuna 2 - 0 Nastic
Espanyol 2 - 1 Celta
Racing 0 - 3 Barcelona
Madrid 2 - 0 Real Sociedad

Sevilla keep moving along with a big derby win over Betis.

Current table, pichichi standings and team pages on the first page of this thread:

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=272115

les Habs

09-18-2006, 10:16 PM

Sid Lowe's column from The Guardian:

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2006/09/18/who_gives_a_toss_about_the_fan.html

Who gives a toss about the fans?

With Sevilla still off our screens and fixtures bandied about at the eleventh hour, if anyone doubted that supporters in Spain are irrelevant, this weekend provided yet more evidence.

Sid Lowe

September 18, 2006 12:20 PM

Sevilla president José María Del Nido has a gaping bloody hole where his nose once was. Rarely has a face been so thoroughly and utterly spited. For the third successive week Sevilla were sensational, for the third successive week they found themselves at the top of the La Liga table, for the third successive week they racked up the goals ... and for the third successive week virtually no one saw them do so, thanks to his on-going refusal to sign a television deal and thus allow Sevilla fans, the rest of Spain and the rest of the world to watch his team.

All of which would be bad enough on any ordinary week but this was no ordinary week. And, but for a streak as stubborn as the blood stain now threatening Del Nido's two-tone shirt, it would have worked out perfectly. It was derby week in Seville and after years of off-field rioting and on-field tedium, Spain's most passionate game was at last turned on its head: for the first time in years the most devastating, lethal attacks came from the players not the cops or fireworks-wielding fans, for the first time in years the real action was out on the pitch, where Sevilla came back from 2-1 down to win a fantastic match 3-2 thanks to two goals from Frédéric Kanouté and an 84th-minute beauty from Renato.

They called it the Derby of Concordia, which might just have had something to do with the absence of Betis's former president - the vain, mutt-catching, Virgin-worshipping, money-in-black-bag-carrying, second-hand-telly-shifting, deviant Prince of Darkness Manué Ruiz de Lopera. With the man whose insane warblings require a Spanish-Lopera/Lopera-Spanish dictionary all of their own handily out of the way, there was no antagonism, no mutual stirring and no empty seat next to Del Nido. For 10 years, Mafia Manué has refused to set foot in enemy territory; this year, his successor Pepe León did take up his seat - and he saw a classic.

Unfortunately, he was one of only 45,500 who did; unfortunately, the Concordia didn't stretch to Del Nido and Audiovisual Sport. And so it was that we all had to miss out on one of the games of the season. "It was fantastic to watch Jesus Navas, as daring and decisive as ever," raved Marca. "It was fantastic to watch Sobia, another wizard in white boots for Heliópolis; to watch Kanouté, the accidental super-goalscorer; to watch Vogel, balance and power without the ball, intelligence with it; and to watch Renato of course - a man whose goal was worth the entrance fee alone." AS cooed over a derby that was "simply wonderful, a game full of passion and excitement, packed with good football, power, skill, goals, emotion, highs and lows." And even El País was getting pretty excited. "The most tepid of Seville derbies out on the street ended up being one of the best on the pitch," they said.

Talk about rubbing it in. This morning, everywhere you look people are raving about the Seville derby; last night, in the other hand, no matter where you looked you just couldn't see it. There was all the footage you could wish for of Raúl missing yet more chances and of David Beckham losing his grip on a first-team place, of Valencia playing on and scoring rather than kicking the ball out while Getafe had a player down "injured" (hurrah!); of the Racing Santander crowd sending yet more racist abuse Samuel Eto'o's way; of a seagull flying across the Riazor pitch and dropping its load on the turf; of the sensational Sergio Aguero starring for Atlético; and of Athletic's fans whipping out the white hankies and protesting against a president who seems to be doing his best to ruin them. Better still, there was the brilliant footage of 2nd Division B side Cartagena's genius striker Sabino missing the same penalty three times. But as for the Sevilla derby, the weekend's biggest game? A wobbly, poorly-angled shot of a couple of goals on the news was as good as it got.

Now, Del Nido has a point - but why take a kitchen knife to your face? And to everyone else's? Sevilla had verbally agreed a deal with Audiovisual Sport amounting to €20m in the summer, only for that offer to be reduced to €15m when Audiovisual struck up at partnership with former rivals Sogecable. Legally, both teams need to have agreed a deal for any game to be televised, regardless of who is at home, and it is rather galling to be offered only the same amount as Betis, when they struggled against relegation last season and you've scored three goals or more in each of the last eight games. But, much as Del Nido insists, "they're the ones missing out", which of course they are, Sevilla miss out too. The club lose the €19m from the renewed offer and the fans miss out on the chance to see their side play - especially away from home.

Still, who gives a toss about the fans? In Spain, virtually no one does. This is the country where the criminal Day of the Club policy, whereby season-ticket holders are forced to buy their own seat for the visit of the big boys, is common; the country where clubs hike prices massively for Barça and Madrid and wonder why the stadium is half empty and dominated by people supporting the visitors; where the league and the Federation fight for power but no one fights for fans.

If anyone doubted that the fans are irrelevant, this weekend provided yet more evidence. Take Santander, where Barcelona versus Racing was pencilled in for Saturday, on the wishes of both clubs, only to be moved to Sunday - on Friday afternoon. Or Valencia, whose match with Getafe last night was, with two days to go, still being advertised as 6pm in the press, 8pm on the league's website, 7pm on Getafe's website and "unconfirmed" on Valencia's. Nor are these any more than just the most extreme examples of a ludicrous situation in which the dates - let alone the times - of games are not even decided until seven days before at best. Trying to get a trip to watch La Liga organised in advance? A piece of advice: don't.

les Habs

09-18-2006, 10:19 PM

Phil Ball's column from Soccernet:

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story?id=380139&root=europe&cc=5739

Updated: Sep. 18, 2006

I predict a riot

Phil Ball

So far this Sunday evening there are no reports of civil upheaval in the burning streets of Seville, but maybe that's because there were no TV cameras there (Sevilla continue to be in dispute with everybody and everything) and also because a bit of urban rioting has become standard for the starters and desserts that sandwich the great Andalusian derbi.

It wouldn't particularly matter if the game were played in Regional Division obscurity. There would still be dustbins overturned. Indeed, the police would probably be disappointed if nothing happened, given the money spent on reinforcements and extra riot training.

This column has dwelt on the Seville derby before, but it remains a fascinating fact that of all the fire and brimstone matches in the world - Barça v Real Madrid, Celtic v Rangers, etc, the roots of the rivalry are well set out, in clear cultural or political terms. No-one is in the dark about these things any more.

But the Seville thing remains a mystery. The fact that Betis were founded in 1909 (four years after their neighbours) by two rebel Sevilla directors who were protesting at the snobbish refusal of Sevilla to sanction the signing of a player who came from working-class stock, has always given Betis a left-wing reputation.

But it hardly seems sufficient to fuel the almost apoplectic hatred between the two sets of supporters, most of whom must rub shoulders the rest of the year on the buses and the trains.

'It's a healthy rivalry' they always say down there, but I'm not so sure. Maybe it's just a bi-annual ritual to which everyone feels they should contribute, just to clear the air and get rid of a bit of excess testosterone. The two presidents actually had lunch together before the game this year, evidence of an official softening between the two clubs, maybe because they're both doing ok. It's said down there that the worst years (in terms of the relationship) have been when the teams have been far apart, with one riding high and the other in the doldrums.

This weekend's game had several extra added ingredients too.

Amazingly enough, despite the rich histories of both clubs, this was the first derby since the 1942-43 campaign that either side had come into the game in the position of top-flight leader. And that was Betis, all those years ago.

Three years later, Sevilla won their one and only league title, just as World War Two was in its final death throes. Indeed, this Sunday was the first time they have ever played the derby on their ground as leaders of the First Division. Not great for a club founded in 1905, but hey, let's look to the future.

The boys in white won a cracking game 3-2 (by all accounts - nobody could watch it apart from the 45,000 capacity crowd) after taking the lead, being pegged back to 1-2, then finally taking the points with a late goal from Renato. The Sánchez Pizjuan went ballistic (we were allowed to see the goals) and Sevilla continue to lead the table on goal difference from Barça and Valencia, who both won and maintained their 100% records.

The recent statistics for the leaders are impressive, quite apart from their demolition of Barcelona in the European Supercup and their win in midweek in the UEFA. They have now gone sixteen games undefeated, winning the last twelve of them - a consecutive run which has set their confidence levels at sky-high.

And all this without Reyes, Baptista and Sergio Ramos (throw in Saviola too), players whose departures from the club were seen as evidence that the president lacked ambition, and that he favoured cautious book-balancing over investment foe the future. Well - that may still be true, since those three players could hardly be sniffed at, but what has happened since is nothing short of extraordinary.

With a team sin figuras (without big stars), coach Juande Ramos has managed to achieve what all trainers seek to do - establish balance. At the back, Javi Navarro and Aitor Ocio survive from the Caparrós regime - hard no-nonsense centre-backs difficult to intimidate. Julien Escudé, bought from Ajax in the summer, has actually replaced Ocio at the back, but he's a centre-back in pretty much the same mould.

Excellent goalie Andrés Palop, the quiet man who played a mere 20 games in six years at Valencia, is now rated as one of the best in La Liga, and with Casillas wobbling at the Bernabéu and Cañizares not getting any younger he might soon come into the international reckoning. Two fizzy full-backs in Alves and David, a solid if unspectacular midfield held together by Renato and Poulsen allows Jesus Navas to do his stuff on the right wing - a player heavily tipped to replace the misfiring Joaquín on the right side of the Spanish team.

Navas' only problem seems to be a tendency to clinical depression, but with the team going so well, he's smiling for now.

And what of Fred Kanouté, hero of the derby hour with a brace of goals? Looks like another case of the Diego Forlan syndrome - a player who couldn't quite hack it in the Premiership but who blossoms in La Liga.

There's no law to this phenomenon, no pattern you can predict. But Fernando Morientes isn't complaining either. He scored again for Valencia at the weekend, after his Champions League hat-trick in midweek. Maybe it was the rain in Liverpool that made him a bit rusty last campaign. Ex-Premiership man José Antonio Reyes also got off the mark for Real Madrid against Real Sociedad, scoring a cracking free-kick that probably had Beckham, watching on from the bench, sweating a bit.

They don't even need him for free-kicks now? Well - Becks' various sponsors will have breathed a sigh of relief when the great man rose from the bench (replacing Reyes, who gave him a smacking kiss on the cheek), then took a late hoof from the defence in his stride and ran half the length of the pitch before blasting the ball neatly into the bottom corner for his first goal of the season. He looked quite chuffed. So did Fabio Capello, who looked distinctly unchuffed in midweek when his new regime seemed to be coming apart at the seams, once again in the hostile lands of Lyon. The jury's still out on Real Madrid, the only Spanish side to fail in Europe this last week.

But anyway, I digress. Are Sevilla authentic challengers? Well - with twelve wins on the trot (admittedly over two seasons) they have to be taken seriously, but their squad is fatally smaller than either of the big two, and thinner in the end than Valencia's. It could be their undoing, but for the moment the force is with them.

Next week should be interesting, when they travel to Atlético Madrid, the other team who were tipped to challenge this season. Having done their usual early-season stutter to date, they stuffed Athletic Bilbao 1-4 in San Mamés without the suspended Torres - but with Maniche and Agüero (who scored) in the starting line-up for the first time.

And although most teams look as though they could stuff Athletic at the moment, it'll do Atlético's morale good for next week. Expect an interesting encounter.

NyQuil

09-19-2006, 07:53 PM

Phil Ball's column from Soccernet:

Just FYI, don't copy an entire column/article and post it here.

Copy the link and a few of the choice sentences.

It's sort of a legal issue and the mods tend to enforce it.

Interested folks will go and read the entire story.

BTW, just got back from a week and a half in Spain. Watched the Valencia-Getafe match in Valencia at a pretty hardcore bar for supporters and had a great time.

les Habs

09-20-2006, 01:04 AM

Just FYI, don't copy an entire column/article and post it here.

Copy the link and a few of the choice sentences.

It's sort of a legal issue and the mods tend to enforce it.

Interested folks will go and read the entire story.

BTW, just got back from a week and a half in Spain. Watched the Valencia-Getafe match in Valencia at a pretty hardcore bar for supporters and had a great time.

Gotcha.

helicecopter

09-23-2006, 08:18 AM

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/fixtures?league=esp.1&cc=5739

I would suggest to add this link to the first post so that users have an easier time to access to the schedule.

Joretus

09-25-2006, 02:46 AM

Villa should have buried it yesterday. It was close so it would have been end for Barca. Anyway, nice game except last ~25mins or so. Vicente is truly awesome.

gary69

09-25-2006, 03:07 PM

Villa should have buried it yesterday. It was close so it would have been end for Barca. Anyway, nice game except last ~25mins or so. Vicente is truly awesome.

The surprise was that Saviola came on as a late substitute and could have won the game for Barca after a nice move but for his weak finishing.

Joretus

09-26-2006, 01:53 AM

The surprise was that Saviola came on as a late substitute and could have won the game for Barca after a nice move but for his weak finishing.

Yeah. Tho that was always been Saviola's problem. Finishing. He is getting chances a lot with his speed&quickness. Anyway it prolly won't help your playing when your chairman is saying "we don't need you". But seems like Barca will need Saviola after all. They are quite thin in upfront.

Evilo

09-28-2006, 01:01 PM

Eto'o will be out 5 months.
Now we'll see if Saviola is that unwanted in Camp Nou.

NyQuil

09-28-2006, 01:16 PM

How has Joaquin been doing since returning from injury?

xalcyx

09-28-2006, 01:16 PM

Eto'o will be out 5 months.
Now we'll see if Saviola is that unwanted in Camp Nou.

Bad, bad news for Barca. If Saviola was ever going to shine, it's now however.

Joretus

09-28-2006, 02:19 PM

How has Joaquin been doing since returning from injury?

At least against Barca he did play good, not so good as he will after getting full form, but still he did play at least 7(in rate of 4-10) against Barca. He have to get better to be best winger in Valencia tho, since Vicente, well he owned Zambrotta nicely, that says it all about how good he can be.

les Habs

09-30-2006, 01:01 AM

Two big fixtures on the weekend are Athletic - Barça and the Madrid derby. Athletic should be up for this fixture if anything for history though they've been poor this season. The derby match will be a real test to see which of those two teams is for real (no pun intended). As for me, I'm with Torrente on the derby match:

"Atleti! Atleti!" Just don't tell Torrente I support the club of the Cules.

helicecopter

09-30-2006, 03:00 AM

Eto'o will be out 5 months.
:(
Since when a broken meniscus requires 5 months to heal?? :dunno:

Ric Flair

10-02-2006, 12:34 PM

Another goal for 'Nando in a decisive Valencia win:yo:

Safir*

10-03-2006, 02:53 PM

How are David Okondor (Betis Sevilla) and Andreas Hinkel (FC Sevilla) doing?

Panopticon

10-16-2006, 04:16 AM

If anyone can find me a clip of Messi's goal last night, I'd really appreciate it...

Joretus

10-22-2006, 04:11 PM

2-0. Simple, easy, win.

helicecopter

11-01-2006, 03:16 AM

http://www.realmadrid.com/articulo/rma34615.htm

losing hopes.. :cry:

helicecopter

11-07-2006, 02:03 PM

Ouch! there goes Gudjohnsen i fear.. (ACL i would guess)Any updates on this?

Ironchef Chris Wok*

11-08-2006, 06:03 AM

Man, I was reading this Ramos interview... I thought the commentary was hilarious.

Ramos: "With Emerson and Diarra, we can be freed up to attack..."

The commentary that followed: What he meant was that "I can be freed up to attack"

vancityluongo

11-08-2006, 06:08 PM

Man, I was reading this Ramos interview... I thought the commentary was hilarious.

Ramos: "With Ramos and Diarra, we can be freed up to attack..."

The commentary that followed: What he meant was that "I can be freed up to attack"

:biglaugh:

helicecopter

11-13-2006, 08:36 AM

Messi out three months with a broken foot. :banghead: :cry:

Ajacied

11-13-2006, 09:36 AM

Ruud van Nistelrooij scored 4 times yesterday, but the most surprising fact that one (perhaps even two, couldn't see it clearly) were from outside the box.. :eek:

Either way, Ruud's still a major force when used properly. I just hope van Basten resigns within notime.

BMann

11-27-2006, 03:15 AM

Valencia stumbled to a 0-1 defeat v Real.Angulo guilty of missing the simplest of chances. :(

Santander beat Recretivo 4-3.Zigic surely will move to the big four having scored two more.Garay the impressive young Argentine defender bagged another & he is on the wanted list too after some excellent games esp. at Real & Valencia.

Ajacied

11-27-2006, 04:37 AM

Ronaldinho played one of his best matches ever vs Villareal.. His 2nd goal was simply breathtaking.

popperbolt*

11-27-2006, 05:03 AM

Ronaldinho played one of his best matches ever vs Villareal.. His 2nd goal was simply breathtaking.

Ronaldhino goal (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyJZ0pG-Ilo) :amazed: :amazed: :amazed: :clap:

Edit: Even better with arabian broadcast (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTLJOM2aHTY&mode=related&search=) :biglaugh:

Panopticon

11-28-2006, 09:07 AM

Ronaldhino goal (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyJZ0pG-Ilo) :amazed: :amazed: :amazed: :clap:

Edit: Even better with arabian broadcast (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTLJOM2aHTY&mode=related&search=) :biglaugh:

That was nice. Is he playing as more of a striker now that they're without Messi and Eto'o?

Joretus

11-28-2006, 12:14 PM

That was nice. Is he playing as more of a striker now that they're without Messi and Eto'o?

At least he is playing more in the upside of the field. Which is better for him. Ronaldinho isn't playmaker that way ie. Kaka is. Ronaldinho have great one touching passes and he is great dribble, with great shooting technique, but he played in WC way too deep in own side and started they same way in Barcelona. He have to use his assets and not trying to bee more than he is.

helicecopter

11-28-2006, 12:26 PM

At least he is playing more in the upside of the field. Which is better for him. Ronaldinho isn't playmaker that way ie. Kaka is. Mmh..it's not like Kaka is much (more) of a playmaker (than Ronaldinho) either..

Joretus

11-28-2006, 12:46 PM

Mmh..it's not like Kaka is much (more) of a playmaker (than Ronaldinho) either..

Well I thought if I would put Pirlo or Kaka's name, but since Kaka is still playing a lot more forward he is better. Well lets use old Zidane card then(or if you prefer Aimar, or Riquelme, there isn't much good comparisations of Brazil, Juninho could be one). He could go down to get ball and still be effective. Ronaldinho have tryed to play like Zidane, but as I did say he shouldn't try what isn't natural for him.

helicecopter

01-13-2007, 05:47 PM

I'd really like to know why Rijkaard doesn't start Saviola instead of Gudjo. Really.
Btw, nice punch Franklin. :)

anyway, last week Sevilla lost, Barca tied with Getafe and Real failed to take any advantage losing as well in La coruna. Now Barca loses the derby and Valencia is back.. things are getting interesting :eek:

Joretus

01-18-2007, 06:21 AM

Now it's getting very interesting in La Liga. Sevilla have been failing to take advantage of their lead, Barcelona have had problems as well. And well Madrid...well same as last couple of years. Good 45mins tho against Zaragoza, and good additions. But there is lot of selling going on. Outside chance, I think Valencia might even climb to first spot if they will get their lineup out of injurylist. Ie. Vicente.

Next weekend I'll be concentrate on Matias Fernandez, good debut and he have HUGE amount of skills. Will be good match against Sevilla.

Joretus

02-08-2007, 07:20 AM

les Habs

02-08-2007, 11:00 AM

Congratulations for Barca to being second richest club in the world. Huge 25% raise in incomes! And just 33mils behind Real Madrid!

http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=446886&CPID=8&clid=186&lid=2&title=Real+top+football+rich+list&channel=football_home&

Meh. That's down to the CL money. We'd have still been in 6th place I reckon had we not won the CL. Still the current board and president have worked miracles in turning our finances around. The made a huge dent in the debt this past year as their recent report showed.

Joretus

02-08-2007, 03:41 PM

Meh. That's down to the CL money. We'd have still been in 6th place I reckon had we not won the CL. Still the current board and president have worked miracles in turning our finances around. The made a huge dent in the debt this past year as their recent report showed.

Yes, I do know CL is major role in that. Of course. Anyway it's great for Barca and it's nice that some other team than Madrid is making money as well. 04/05 ~50m euros net profit and about same last year I think.

helicecopter

02-11-2007, 02:39 PM

Quite an entertaining game by Ronaldinho tonight. :)

More importantly, Leo Messi is back :yo:

btw..
Can someone provide an informed opinion on this Balboa guy? '85 born, intriguing package i would say..
To begin with,is he still Real Madrid's property?

Joretus

02-11-2007, 02:51 PM

btw..
Can someone provide an informed opinion on this Balboa guy? '85 born, intriguing package i would say..
To begin with,is he still Real Madrid's property?

He is right winger, fast and can dribble. Wouldn't give him so much potential as same others who are currently in Castilla. But then again Valdo didn't ever make it even to Castilla and look him last season...

And yes, he is just loaned to Santander. And I do see him transfered/moving at summer.

Evilo

02-13-2007, 03:43 AM

So, nobody talks about Eto'o refusing to come onto the pitch?
Ronaldinho criticized him (rightfully).

les Habs

02-13-2007, 03:59 AM

So, nobody talks about Eto'o refusing to come onto the pitch?
Ronaldinho criticized him (rightfully).

Not a big deal. It'll blow over if it hasn't already.

FlyHigh

02-16-2007, 02:48 PM

Evilo

02-16-2007, 03:43 PM

Personally, I think that Eto'o runs his mouth way too much

You mean fans from other teams wouln't take him for free? :sarcasm:

gary69

02-16-2007, 04:24 PM

You mean fans from other teams wouln't take him for free? :sarcasm:

Touche!

But to be honest, I think it comes with the territory, most of these 20-year-old-somethings uneducated nouveau rich can't be expexted to be other than spoiled brats, really. Most of them don't have the balanced personality of the Yzermans, Sakics etc.

It's unfortunate though, that the more experienced members of any particular club which have been through the same (like Rijkaard in this case), can't make a better job out of it.

As for Rijkaard leaving, five years is a long time in a club, and maybe it's time for a change if he no longer can motivate himself/key players. I don't see him and/or Ronnie leaving as a necessarily bad thing, it would be a fresh start, which would allow an opportunity for e.g. Messi to shine and become the main player for Barcelona.

les Habs

02-16-2007, 06:35 PM

I'm not sure how much the media is making of this, but it seems like Rijkaard might actually be thinking about leaving Barca. Personally, I think that Eto'o runs his mouth way too much and that someone on the board should tell him to shut up. Rijkaard has led Barca to a great deal of success and they also play some of the most attractive football in Europe.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if the reports about Ronnie leaving were unfounded, but I'm a little surprised that no one has come out and said that he will stay. So is this going to blow over quickly or become a Mourinho vs. Chelsea type thing?

The media outside of Barcelona of course just gives you the tidbits. It's actually interesting in Barcelona because the two papers seem a bit divided. Either way, Sport's cover today had Van Basten and... Schuster (sorry, couldn't remember) on the cover as potential replacements. Anyway, if Rijkaard goes it won't be down to this incident. It sounds like he's pissed because Laporta backed Eto'o before it was said and done. I don't think that'll be what makes Rijkaard go though. He's been linked with Milan for a while now and I think he'll got simply to go. Of course it'd be a stupid move on his part since he's got a President who doesn't really get all that involved with team affairs and has a great squad of players at his disposal. He also could very well have been sacked in his first season (and would have been at a lot of other clubs). His profile is much bigger since he's been with us.

As for the team's success under Rijkaard, I wouldn't give him too much credit. For starters, I wouldn't credit him with that formation. From what I understand that came from Cruyff. I think Rijkaard is a good manager, particularly with the players. He's the right guy for this sort of squad, a squad of a lot of talented players. The egos aren't so big as you'd guess (nowhere near the Dream Team's locker room), but there is a lot of talent to juggle and Rijkaard does it well. While I'd hate to see him go, I think we'll survive without him. I can think of a few guys who could take the team and who I think would take the job.

Eto'o does make some dumb remarks, but this whole thing has blown out of proportion. Belletti said it was hilarious and Motta was laughing at the training session after the team had a meeting. Nobody should have issues with this anymore. Anyway, starting at the beginning, Eto'o wouldn't go on because he needs a lot of time to get ready before he gets on the pitch. He said had it been a home match he could have hit the bike beforehand and then been ready. However with him being called on that late in the game it didn't give him enough time. Then Rijkaard makes his remarks to the papers. IMO Rijkaard's remarks were harmless, but Eto'o is an emotional guy. Besides, I would have thought Rijkaard would have known that Eto'o needs time to get ready. After all, he did really well to get recovered from injury as fast as he did. Either way, Eto'o overreacted. He also overreacted to Ronnie's comments. Still it doesn't surprise me. I have a great manager who works under me who totally took a comment personally and the wrong way from another manager this week. He's just a sensitive guy too. I just explained it to him. He is sensitive, but I know that and it's fine. Once you resolve yourself to certain facts or things happening, they're not such an issue. When you're the guy being talked about it's easy to get heated about it and overreact. Back to the story though, Puyol arrived at the Camp Nou early the other (something like 8:30am). Eto'o was already there :eek: as he was the first player to arrive. Puyol talked with Eto'o. He then met with Ronaldinho and Rijkaard. They hammered it all out. Puyol showed yet again how great a captain he is. I don't know if it's true Rijkaard is still pissed. If he is, he should get over it. This isn't a big deal. Casillas even remarked about it this week and how it wasn't that bad compared to a certain other club.

Ronaldinho comes out virtually every week saying he isn't leaving and that he wants to stay. So does Messi. There comments go deeper actually. Ronaldinho has a contract until 2010. The club mentioned a new contract until 2014 and his brother (and agent, the same person) have both been pushing for this. Sandro Rosell said the other week that Ronnie wasn't happy and that he wants the new deal. Well he's got a new contract every summer since he joined and is the highest paid player. There is no need to discuss a new deal right now. They can hammer something out in the summer if need be. Either way, I don't see him leaving and they're just rumours like everybody else.

To answer your question, I don't know. I hope it blows over, but if Frank goes he goes. He does have a pretty new contract that goes until 2009 though. Apparently we'll be looking for an answer by the end of March or we'll start looking for a new manager.

les Habs

02-16-2007, 06:45 PM

Touche!

But to be honest, I think it comes with the territory, most of these 20-year-old-somethings uneducated nouveau rich can't be expexted to be other than spoiled brats, really. Most of them don't have the balanced personality of the Yzermans, Sakics etc.

It's unfortunate though, that the more experienced members of any particular club which have been through the same (like Rijkaard in this case), can't make a better job out of it.

As for Rijkaard leaving, five years is a long time in a club, and maybe it's time for a change if he no longer can motivate himself/key players. I don't see him and/or Ronnie leaving as a necessarily bad thing, it would be a fresh start, which would allow an opportunity for e.g. Messi to shine and become the main player for Barcelona.

I don't think that's it. I think Eto'o wears his heart on his sleeve. He's an emotional and proud guy. He was told he wasn't good enough for Madrid. That alone fires him up. I'd much rather have a guy like him with that much passion and drive than somebody like Kluivert who seemingly doesn't give a ****. Eto'o is the Stoichkov of our generation. Besides, guys make stupid comments all the time. Salva Ballesta said something like "give me a gun and I'll go up there and take care of them" when ETA was suspected of the Madrid bombings. Apparently he meant Basques and just ETA. Raul has made dumb remarks in the past.

Rijkaard's only in his fourth season. I think he can motivate the players and they still back him. If anyone were to go, I'd accept him leaving over Ronaldinho or Eto'o. That said, I don't want him to leave. Ronaldinho doesn't need to leave for Messi to shine. Ronaldinho is struggling this season (I think it's due to the WC and the club's extensive touring this summer), yet he's still got 15 goals. He also doesn't need to leave for Messi to shine. Plenty of players already shine with the club right now and Messi is one of them. C Ronaldo would probably keep Messi from shining more than Ronaldinho, but that's only if he comes and we don't change the formation.

You mean fans from other teams wouln't take him for free? :sarcasm:

:D

FH would love to see Eto'o run his mouth off with Henry every week. :D

les Habs

02-16-2007, 06:59 PM

I would just add that this whole issue will hopefully have a desired effect. That is Eto'o going on goalscoring spree. You piss this guy off and he'll punish you. You tell him he's not good enough, he'll score against you. You make racist remarks or monkey chants (something he's endured time again), he'll do a monkey dance (which I condone) and score against you.

les Habs

02-16-2007, 07:09 PM

On more thing about Rijkaard. Sandro Rosell wanted him replaced with Scolari and Laporta and Co. stood by him. While Rijkaard's been good for the club, the club has been good to and for him as well.

Joretus

02-17-2007, 05:03 AM

As for the team's success under Rijkaard, I wouldn't give him too much credit. For starters, I wouldn't credit him with that formation. From what I understand that came from Cruyff. I think Rijkaard is a good manager, particularly with the players. He's the right guy for this sort of squad, a squad of a lot of talented players. The egos aren't so big as you'd guess (nowhere near the Dream Team's locker room), but there is a lot of talent to juggle and Rijkaard does it well. While I'd hate to see him go, I think we'll survive without him. I can think of a few guys who could take the team and who I think would take the job.

Eto'o does make some dumb remarks, but this whole thing has blown out of proportion. Belletti said it was hilarious and Motta was laughing at the training session after the team had a meeting. Nobody should have issues with this anymore. Anyway, starting at the beginning, Eto'o wouldn't go on because he needs a lot of time to get ready before he gets on the pitch. He said had it been a home match he could have hit the bike beforehand and then been ready. However with him being called on that late in the game it didn't give him enough time. Then Rijkaard makes his remarks to the papers. IMO Rijkaard's remarks were harmless, but Eto'o is an emotional guy. Besides, I would have thought Rijkaard would have known that Eto'o needs time to get ready. After all, he did really well to get recovered from injury as fast as he did. Either way, Eto'o overreacted. He also overreacted to Ronnie's comments. Still it doesn't surprise me. I have a great manager who works under me who totally took a comment personally and the wrong way from another manager this week. He's just a sensitive guy too. I just explained it to him. He is sensitive, but I know that and it's fine. Once you resolve yourself to certain facts or things happening, they're not such an issue. When you're the guy being talked about it's easy to get heated about it and overreact. Back to the story though, Puyol arrived at the Camp Nou early the other (something like 8:30am). Eto'o was already there :eek: as he was the first player to arrive. Puyol talked with Eto'o. He then met with Ronaldinho and Rijkaard. They hammered it all out. Puyol showed yet again how great a captain he is. I don't know if it's true Rijkaard is still pissed. If he is, he should get over it. This isn't a big deal. Casillas even remarked about it this week and how it wasn't that bad compared to a certain other club.

Ronaldinho comes out virtually every week saying he isn't leaving and that he wants to stay. So does Messi. There comments go deeper actually. Ronaldinho has a contract until 2010. The club mentioned a new contract until 2014 and his brother (and agent, the same person) have both been pushing for this. Sandro Rosell said the other week that Ronnie wasn't happy and that he wants the new deal. Well he's got a new contract every summer since he joined and is the highest paid player. There is no need to discuss a new deal right now. They can hammer something out in the summer if need be. Either way, I don't see him leaving and they're just rumours like everybody else.

To answer your question, I don't know. I hope it blows over, but if Frank goes he goes. He does have a pretty new contract that goes until 2009 though. Apparently we'll be looking for an answer by the end of March or we'll start looking for a new manager.

The formation is allmost same as ie. Ajax used years ago, so there isn't much credit to give either to Cruiff nor to Rijkaard in that way.

And players saying they don't want leave is quite same, since 95% would say it anyway, no matter if they would want to or not. Then again Eto'o did say he would like to move if he don't get credit he is wanting before this season already. And even had that Middle East connection.

Mostly I would keep tight in Rijkaard since the thing he have brought to Barca is that team is front of players. Same as Real M had before all circus started and quite the different which Barca had before Rijkaard. He is most important piece of Barcelona with Ronaldinho and Eto'o, who I would rate above else since without him Barcelona really don't have scoring threat and no1 can replace him even as much as others can replace Ronaldinho.

gary69

02-17-2007, 06:51 AM

I don't think that's it. I think Eto'o wears his heart on his sleeve. He's an emotional and proud guy. He was told he wasn't good enough for Madrid. That alone fires him up. I'd much rather have a guy like him with that much passion and drive than somebody like Kluivert who seemingly doesn't give a ****. Eto'o is the Stoichkov of our generation. Besides, guys make stupid comments all the time. Salva Ballesta said something like "give me a gun and I'll go up there and take care of them" when ETA was suspected of the Madrid bombings. Apparently he meant Basques and just ETA. Raul has made dumb remarks in the past.

Rijkaard's only in his fourth season. I think he can motivate the players and they still back him. If anyone were to go, I'd accept him leaving over Ronaldinho or Eto'o. That said, I don't want him to leave. Ronaldinho doesn't need to leave for Messi to shine. Ronaldinho is struggling this season (I think it's due to the WC and the club's extensive touring this summer), yet he's still got 15 goals. He also doesn't need to leave for Messi to shine. Plenty of players already shine with the club right now and Messi is one of them. C Ronaldo would probably keep Messi from shining more than Ronaldinho, but that's only if he comes and we don't change the formation.

I certainly didn't suggest that anybody NEEDS to leave for others to shine, merely that it wouldn't be the end of the world if Ronaldinho goes (Barca would get good money for him, would have a good chance of bringing in someone equally talented but who just hasn't won it all, yet).

As for Rijkaard, if he starts to have doubts about his desire and motivation, then it's only fair for him to leave, rather than stay for the fifth season and wait until things turn bad. In a big club, motivating players is one of the most important (if not the most important) aspects of manager's job. Big clubs usually have a first team consisting of players in their prime, so the manager can't teach them much technically or even tactically, but the players certainly need to be motivated to work for each other, for the club, for the fans or whatever gets them going.

As for Eto'o, if this gets him going (and doesn't put his teammates off), then it might have the desired effect, as you said.

But I wouldn't still dismiss the players of Kluivert-type personality like you did. Take your stereotype Scandinavian player, for example. They might not inspire many people with their lack of charismatic/outgoing personality and might seem to outsiders that they don't care as much as some other players. It doesn't mean though that they haven't as much will to win and that they can't be useful for a team. Take a player like Nick Lidstrom in hockey, quietly gets the job done in a very high level. These type of players might not usually be team's best players, the media darlings or the fan favourites, but a manager will do well to have this kind of player in his team, with a high workrate but little fanfare. Cool heads are better in some situations as well, where more fiery type of players tend to get carried away.

Every manager has his own methods and favourite type of players, but nevertheless if he can't channel these young men's energy and enthuasism into right things rather than fast cars, girls, partying, publicity etc., then the manager (and the club) aren't usually doing a very good job, imo. Of course players need to primarly look after their own interests (for every Maldini there are dozens of players who get unceremoniously dumped by clubs), but managers are supposed to be the middle men between club's/team's interest and players interests.

So it's a manager's job to find the right chemistry between players with different personalities, cultral background, language etc.

les Habs

02-17-2007, 01:19 PM

The formation is allmost same as ie. Ajax used years ago, so there isn't much credit to give either to Cruiff nor to Rijkaard in that way.

And players saying they don't want leave is quite same, since 95% would say it anyway, no matter if they would want to or not. Then again Eto'o did say he would like to move if he don't get credit he is wanting before this season already. And even had that Middle East connection.

Mostly I would keep tight in Rijkaard since the thing he have brought to Barca is that team is front of players. Same as Real M had before all circus started and quite the different which Barca had before Rijkaard. He is most important piece of Barcelona with Ronaldinho and Eto'o, who I would rate above else since without him Barcelona really don't have scoring threat and no1 can replace him even as much as others can replace Ronaldinho.

I never said he created the formation. He told Rijkaard to use it though. It's also not far off the formation that Cruyff employed during the Dream Team era. (Of course a lot of Cruyff's tactics go back to his manager when he played with Ajax. The guy's name escapes me. Michels.) The fact that Cruyff knew what would work and suggested it is the point. Would Rijkaard have come up with that formation on his own? Maybe, but I don't know what he was waiting for if he would have.

The Middle East connection? :biglaugh: Yeah, Sammy's gonna go play in the Middle East next year. As for Ronaldinho, he says he wants to stay and I see no reason to think otherwise. Ronaldinho says he wants to stay a few times a year. How often does Cristiano Ronaldo say that about United?

I think both Eto'o and Ronaldinho are about as replaceable. I would hate to have to choose between them. I can think of replacements for both, but their replacements would be expensive and I don't think one of them would do it. I won't name names. As for Rijkaard, the great thing about him is his man management skills. He's like our Del Bosque in that sense. He keeps everybody happy and performing. He's good enough tactically too, but his greatest asset to this team is his man management.

les Habs

02-17-2007, 01:33 PM

I certainly didn't suggest that anybody NEEDS to leave for others to shine, merely that it wouldn't be the end of the world if Ronaldinho goes (Barca would get good money for him, would have a good chance of bringing in someone equally talented but who just hasn't won it all, yet).

As for Rijkaard, if he starts to have doubts about his desire and motivation, then it's only fair for him to leave, rather than stay for the fifth season and wait until things turn bad. In a big club, motivating players is one of the most important (if not the most important) aspects of manager's job. Big clubs usually have a first team consisting of players in their prime, so the manager can't teach them much technically or even tactically, but the players certainly need to be motivated to work for each other, for the club, for the fans or whatever gets them going.

As for Eto'o, if this gets him going (and doesn't put his teammates off), then it might have the desired effect, as you said.

But I wouldn't still dismiss the players of Kluivert-type personality like you did. Take your stereotype Scandinavian player, for example. They might not inspire many people with their lack of charismatic/outgoing personality and might seem to outsiders that they don't care as much as some other players. It doesn't mean though that they haven't as much will to win and that they can't be useful for a team. Take a player like Nick Lidstrom in hockey, quietly gets the job done in a very high level. These type of players might not usually be team's best players, the media darlings or the fan favourites, but a manager will do well to have this kind of player in his team, with a high workrate but little fanfare. Cool heads are better in some situations as well, where more fiery type of players tend to get carried away.

Every manager has his own methods and favourite type of players, but nevertheless if he can't channel these young men's energy and enthuasism into right things rather than fast cars, girls, partying, publicity etc., then the manager (and the club) aren't usually doing a very good job, imo. Of course players need to primarly look after their own interests (for every Maldini there are dozens of players who get unceremoniously dumped by clubs), but managers are supposed to be the middle men between club's/team's interest and players interests.

So it's a manager's job to find the right chemistry between players with different personalities, cultral background, language etc.

No, but you did say that Ronaldinho leaving would allow Messi to shine. That's not necessary. Messi shines enough. He'd shine even more if he weren't injured as often as he is. He gets his fair share of newspaper covers and headlines in Barcelona. He also sees his fair share of the ball on the pitch. Go back to the match where we hammered Madrid in the Bernabeu last season. Everybody remembers Ronaldinho's goals, but Messi was smashing them with his runs in the first half.

I don't want to think about Ronaldinho leaving, yet. If his form isn't on next season and he's not putting up numbers, then he can go. I'm still pleased with him though and I don't think I will every not appreciate him. This guy is well on his way to being a club legend and possibly it's biggest ever. He's already surpassed Rivaldo if you ask me. Sure we'd get good money and could get a good replacement, but I don't know if they'd have that X factor Ronnie does. C Ronaldo would be my first choice. Actually, I'd demand him.

Well I wouldn't make a blanket statement about Scandinavians in that fashion, but I get your point. I don't think every player needs to be like Eto'o or as fiery as he is. The point is though that IMO he cares a helluva lot more than Kluivert ever did. Do you think Eto'o gets upset and blows his top because he wants the attention? No way. He does it because he wants to win everything. In previous seasons he was subbed late in the match and would get pissed because he wants the Pichichi. I don't completely condone that response, but I'm glad he's got that hunger.

Well the Barça boys used to party and they still do. Kluivert and Co used to hit the town. Ronaldinho DEFINITELY hits the town. A mate of mine saw him in a club in BCN and... Trust me, they party. The point is that Ronaldinho and the current squad get the job done on the pitch too. That doesn't mean that in the past it was all down to the players, but this group is really special compared to the squads we had not so long ago.

Yeah, that is a manager's job and Rijkaard does a great job. I wouldn't trade him for anybody else.

Finally, Rijkaard's come out and said he doesn't want to leave.

Joretus

02-17-2007, 02:00 PM

I never said he created the formation. He told Rijkaard to use it though. It's also not far off the formation that Cruyff employed during the Dream Team era. (Of course a lot of Cruyff's tactics go back to his manager when he played with Ajax. The guy's name escapes me. Michels.) The fact that Cruyff knew what would work and suggested it is the point. Would Rijkaard have come up with that formation on his own? Maybe, but I don't know what he was waiting for if he would have.

The Middle East connection? :biglaugh: Yeah, Sammy's gonna go play in the Middle East next year. As for Ronaldinho, he says he wants to stay and I see no reason to think otherwise. Ronaldinho says he wants to stay a few times a year. How often does Cristiano Ronaldo say that about United?

I think both Eto'o and Ronaldinho are about as replaceable. I would hate to have to choose between them. I can think of replacements for both, but their replacements would be expensive and I don't think one of them would do it. I won't name names. As for Rijkaard, the great thing about him is his man management skills. He's like our Del Bosque in that sense. He keeps everybody happy and performing. He's good enough tactically too, but his greatest asset to this team is his man management.

It was last summer and he(Eto'o) would have played just couple of games for about 0.5m/game or so. Anyway Barca(obviously) and Fifa was against it, since no1 should be contracted to two teams same time.

And can't say Rijkaard would have come with it alone, then again ie. his assistants are doing a lot at least during games, so I think Rijkaard role is much more manager, than coach.

les Habs

02-17-2007, 03:43 PM

It was last summer and he(Eto'o) would have played just couple of games for about 0.5m/game or so. Anyway Barca(obviously) and Fifa was against it, since no1 should be contracted to two teams same time.

And can't say Rijkaard would have come with it alone, then again ie. his assistants are doing a lot at least during games, so I think Rijkaard role is much more manager, than coach.

Yes, I know what you're talking about. They approached the club and not Eto'o though. It was 5 million and the club correctly said no. End of story.

I think Rijkaard is more the manager, but he has a say in the tactics. Either way, it came from Cruyff's recommendation.

gary69

02-18-2007, 02:12 PM

Barca just lost 2-1 at Valencia. They had huge chunks of possession during the first half (something like 70% vs. 30%), but couldn't capitalize.

After Valencia took 2-0 lead in the second half, things turned a bit nasty. Ronaldinho and Albelda were going for a ball (for a header) in midfield, and Ronaldinho elbowed Albelda in the face. The ref probably didn't see it, either way, Albelda lost his temper and went for a two-footed lunge on a Barca player with the ball. When Deco saw this, he in turn went for a two-footed lunge on Albelda. Both were sent off. Some minutes later Ronaldinho got a yellow, for another elbow in the face. All in all, there must have been closer to ten yellows combined.

Ronaldinho and Messi had some good runs and flick-ons from deep, but they were stopped on their tracks usually before the penalty area. The couple ensuing free-kicks were blasted mostly at the wall by Ronaldinho, until the 92nd minute when he finally got one in. But it was way too late by then.

les Habs

02-18-2007, 02:13 PM

ATG

02-19-2007, 12:25 PM

http://www.goal.com/en/articolo.aspx?contenutoid=237840

Capello is gone from Real :eek:

edit: seems like it was a false alarm

les Habs

02-19-2007, 06:20 PM

http://www.goal.com/en/articolo.aspx?contenutoid=237840

Capello is gone from Real :eek:

edit: seems like it was a false alarm

NOOOOO!!!! Crapello has quickly become one of my favourite managers. Don't leave Fabio!! :D

les Habs

02-19-2007, 06:37 PM

helicecopter

02-21-2007, 05:41 AM

Sounds like he will be gone. If he's sacked they have to pay something like 12 million euros. If he resigns they shouldn't have to. I guess he wants to leave but that it looks as though he wasn't sacked.I would be VERY surprised if he resignes giving up on his 12millions clause (IF SUCH a clause does exist).. Madrid better be ready to pay if they are determined to sack him.

helicecopter

02-24-2007, 03:53 PM

Awful officiating in the first half of Madrid's derby.
Unexcusable mistakes going Real Madrid's side.

helicecopter

02-24-2007, 05:00 PM

Cassano is finally back playing.
(with some weird bandages on both forearms :help: )
He looked understandably rusty, but with a quick little piece of his genius created the equalizer (good finishing from Higuain).
Just a great pass.

gary69

02-26-2007, 11:06 AM

ATG

02-26-2007, 11:13 AM

Juni

02-28-2007, 04:20 PM

Sevilla vs Betis in the Cup tonight was abandoned after Juande Ramos was knocked unconcious after a missile from the crowd hit him.

Absolutely diabolical.

gary69

02-28-2007, 04:47 PM

Sevilla vs Betis in the Cup tonight was abandoned after Juande Ramos was knocked unconcious after a missile from the crowd hit him.

Absolutely diabolical.

Didn't see the game, but sounds horrible. What kind of sanctions are they talking about?

Much scrappier performance by Barca in the Zaragoza vs Barca match, it was thrilling to the end, both teams had great chances right at the end.

As usual, Barcelona had a lot of nice running and clever (short) passing, exemplified by the Xavi goal. On the whole, I wasn't too convinced with their end product in the attack. Of course Eto'o will help on that, and they sure need him back at full strength. Hopefully he plays against Sevilla at the weekend.

Live in the Now

02-28-2007, 08:05 PM

I loved the Xavi goal, but I did not love what I saw from D'Alessandro and Messi. D'Alessandro's an idiot, Messi fell down like he got hit with a bag of bricks well after the fact even though the ref was already getting out the red for D'Alessandro's slight headbutt.

les Habs

03-01-2007, 02:38 AM

As our resident Barca fan hasn't written anything on the subject (yet?), I'd like to throw in something for the record.

Eto'o was back in the starting line-up, and had a very good 65 minutes before being substituted. He had a hand in all the goals, scoring one himself and perhaps could have added another one as well.

Ronaldinho was unlucky not to score after dribbling four players with fancy footwork, and beating the goalie with his shot, which unluckily hit the bar. He had other chances as well (e.g. freekick on the bar as well). Ronaldinho also drew some irritation from the Bilbao players with his somewhat unnecessary (but entertaining) showboating, when barring a miracle it was clear to everybody that Barcelona is going to win.

But it was still "only" Bilbao, Sevilla and Liverpool should be much tougher opponents.

Didn't get to this match until last night. I largely agree with everything you said. A couple of things:

-Athletic certainly aren't Sevilla or Liverpool. Still it was a masterclass performance and we were inches away from 8 goals in total. Also, Athletic is always a bigger match (though not on the scale of el Clasico, Valencia or Espanyol). Athletic still have good players and are good to stay up, but a tough season for them.

-Absolutely nothing wrong with Ronaldinho's showboating. It wasn't in the least bit unnecessary and I don't get the argument that it could be. Sure the match was won, but the fans pay good money to see them play. More power to him and it's unfortunate more players/teams don't entertain as he does.

Well here are my comments and match ratings from the football forum I post at:

Kinda late with this match, but it was worth every minute. I was tempted to skip the second half, but I'm glad I didn't. Great stuff. I think we ended with possession in the 60% bracket, but it felt like the 80% bracket. We dominated them from the beginning. It was odd to see the stats of balls played into the area late in the second half. Athletic had nearly as many as we did, but it didn't seem like that at all.

Before I get to the ratings, some interesting tidbits. Eto'o and Ronaldinho both got some whistles with their first touches, but when Eto'o got another touch the cheers drowned out the jeers which were barely audible. Also, when Eto'o was subbed off he hugged both Ronaldinho and Rijkaard. Nothing dramatic and it looked like any other time I suppose. I know it was mentioned, but funny seeing Ronnie pose in front of the cameras after the game.

Valdes - 6 - Not much to do really.

Oleguer - 6 - Not much from him. He didn't look great. Sorta clumsy on the ball.

Thuram - 7 - Not much to do (getting the them here?). I think as someone else mentioned "calm" is the word.

Puyol - 7 - Most active defender and I'd say our best. Nice to see him get into the action when he flicked the ball up as the Athletic player went by and then headed it forward.

Gio - 7 - Did well getting forward and linked up with Ronnie well (though I'd give that credit to Ronnie). Hustled back on one occasion to win the ball. A nice shot in the second half.

Edmilson - 6 - Also wasn't too much involved. A few challenges and fouls IIRC.

Xavi - 8 - What a difference playing w/o Deco makes for him. It's like I've been saying, he doesn't get enough of the ball when he plays with Deco. He really stood out in the midfield for this one. Something like 90% accuracy on over 100 passes. He hit this nice 30 yard or so long ball on the ground in the first half. It shouldn't be forgotten that he also worked really hard and got back to defend more than once and even took the ball off Urzaiz. Took his goal well with the volley.

Iniesta - 8 - Also quite good. Didn't lead as much as Xavi, but some nice runs and dribbling. He really did well in changing gears and pace during his dribbles. Unlucky not to score with hitting the post and should have put away the rebound.

Giuly - 7 - As usual, worked his socks off. Some nice control on a couple of passes as he brought the ball down well. Pulled ball back twice in dangerous plays: the first being the own goal and the second being Iniesta's shot off the post.

Ronaldinho - 8 - A goal from a 9 rating and a hatrick away from a 15 rating. He simply toyed with Iraola and the other Athletic players. He made at least three no look passes. Slotted in Eto'o well to get the assist on the third goal. A few 360 spin one touch passes. He was just breathtaking. He nearly had four goals and was close on all four. Hit the bar on a freekick he drew, had two well placed shots saved by only the keepers stuck out foot and nearly scored an absolute dream goal. If AJ's file is still watchable and you've not seen it, don't deny yourself. I had a laugh as Iraola and another Athletic defender were seemingly telling him to cut out the magic since they were down 3-0.

Eto'o - 8 - What a difference he makes. Looked perfectly healthy to me, eh Frank? Really nice assist on Xavi's goal and the slotted the ball home well on his goal. He nearly had another too as Ronaldinho played him in. Definitely puts more pressure on the keeper/defenders in their own half in comparison to Saviola or Eidur.

Messi - 7 - Definitely provided some danger and was involved in some nice attacks. Along with Ronaldinho just toyed with them at times. Looked like he's getting into form.

Saviola - 6 - Nothing really. He didn't get much of the ball at all.

Sylvinho - N/A - Came on late really, but he had a really nice run.

Rijkaard - ? - What was the point of leaving Ronnie out there?

A graph of the Xavi goal. Only Giuly didn't get a touch. About 20 passes in one minute. From MD:

http://www.elmundodeportivo.es/mundo-img/20070226a/60_archivo55_graphic_10_1_2_20070226_YBA04M22.EPS. jpg

The second two goals and that brilliant run by Fataldinho:

http://www.yousendit.com/download/VnBvT0Nld0F6NE41VEE9PQ

les Habs

03-01-2007, 02:41 AM

I haven't seen the Copa match yet, but a great result in Zaragoza against a Cup team. Saw the Messi incident. D' Alessandro should have been sent off. Still Messi needs to cut that out. No need for that sort of acting. I hope this doesn't happen again. I'm very happy to see Xavi and Iniesta score though.

les Habs

03-01-2007, 02:51 AM

Go to 1:44 to see the Ronaldinho play. Would have been a helluva goal.

Highlights (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUIwmA-IOn0)

helicecopter

03-10-2007, 04:01 PM

FURIOUS first half in 'El Clasico' tonight !! :yo:

Messi with disappointing finish on the 3rd opportunity prevented him from getting the hat-trick.

Iniesta with a couple of SPECIAL plays in the middle.

Ruud with a strong game.

Ronaldinho well ON his game...

More non-sense form Rijkaard with Eto'o on the left and dinho as center forward (the equalizer came while the two were swapped for a moment)

Barca left with only ten men after Oleguer got his second yellow late in the first half. I was busy with a phone call for the first 15 minutes, especially during Madrid's penalty, but the first yellow he got on that play looked like a joke.

Ramos with a stupid challenge from behind on dinho resulting in a borderline yellow.. Diarra didn't get booked for a quite similar foul on Iniesta.

helicecopter

03-10-2007, 05:00 PM

Quickest feet on earth babyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :yo:

Live in the Now

03-10-2007, 05:10 PM

That was the match of the year.

les Habs

03-10-2007, 06:42 PM

Downloading it right now!!! Can't believe Rijkaard started three at the back again. *** is he on about?!?!??!?!?? No wonder they were in this match. Thank God the little Lion who isn't good enough to make an HF Boards poll put in a hat-trick.

Quiet Robert

03-10-2007, 07:09 PM

:amazed: wow, what a game. That was just incredible to watch. That was the best game I've seen all year.

helicecopter

03-10-2007, 07:57 PM

That was the match of the year.Agree.

That was what was thinking after the first half already. The red card to Oleguer somehow damaged it but the finish eraised my few left doubts.

les Habs

03-13-2007, 01:11 AM

Here you go Helice, feeding time! :D

What I posted on the Barça forum where I post:

Valdes - 8 - Came up big with some saves that at the end of the day kept us in it. Did particularly well to save on van Nistelrooy on that breakaway. Not at fault on the goals.

Oleguer - 2 - He did do well to win one ball in the midfield. Seriously. Other than that though, dreadful. At the end of the day I have a problem defending him, but he shouldn't have been in that situation. Doesn't excuse his actions, but still.

Thuram - 4 - Really set them up for that first goal. He looked shaky at times, but also made some nice plays too. Overall though he was shaky and after this sentence I am changing my 5 rating to a 4.

Puyol - 5 - Tough one. I'm tempted with a 6, but Ramos beat him to the ball on their third. That did it for me. Other than that, he was on/off. Best of the three at the back, but it was three at the back.

Marquez - 3 - I was going to go with a 4, but IMO he was worse than Thuram despite Thuram's mistake. He had a nice volley that forced a save, but not much esle. He was poor in the challenge and gave the ball away too much.

Xavi - 5 - He was drowned out in that midfield. Too many cooks and when that's the case he's usually the last one holding the spatula. Put Messi in well with a through ball and got back well on one play, but that's really about all.

Deco - 5 - Some real harsh comments on this forum about this match for him. I thought he battled and worked pretty hard. I think he covered a lot of ground in this one. He made some smart fouls, but was flirting with another card. He won a few balls or had plays that allowed others to get the ball (once where Iniesta got it). He also schooled Gago on the right and then pulled it back for Iniesta to get a chance. It was a mixed bag though and I think one play summed it up... he won the ball then promptly coughed it up. 50/50. Still, some of the ratings I've seen are harsh.

Iniesta - 7 - The real bright spot in midfield. He was our workhorse offensively in midfield and was all over the place at times. Some real skill from him too. Totally faked out somebody in midfield in the first half. Had a little backheel played into Messi's path. Made a nice run into the box, but put it wide from his left foot as he was being closed down. Also made a nice through ball in the first half that led to a chance. Big performance in a big match that further showed his quality and maturity.

Messi - 10 - Damn! I'm having trouble not giving a 10. **** it, it's a 10. The goals were all quality and to score the equalizer in injury time when they've packed the back and we're down to ten men... Sorry folks, but that's a 10. Changing it now. OK, now that it's done. He constantly looked dangerous and didn't have an overlapping back to help him. First goal required a decent enough finish and he just put it away well. Then the second. Whoa! Now that was an emphatic finish and just think of the times in football where guys dance around and put it over, wide or into a defender. Then there's the third. Brushed off Helguera's garbage challenge for what it was and then put it away so well yet again. And that celebration. I said it earlier, but that was Ronaldinho stuff. Love this kid.

Eto'o - 7 - I can't understand anyone giving him a lower rating or criticizing him for missing chances. You wanna know he was missed, look at how dangerous we were in the second half compared to the first half. Not the entire first half was down to him, but was dangerous and looked good for a goal. Also, I'm shocked I haven't read more about him on the second goal. He had two touches, the second being the most important, and layed it on for Ronaldinho to take his shot. He looked hungrier, fitter and better. Hopefully he's getting to complete match fitness.

Ronaldinho - 6 - I'll start by saying that people shouldn't forget he was considered to possibly miss this match. It wasn't far off. That said, I'm sort of in shock at the comments on him performance and some of the ratings. He was good enough in the first half and his run really made the second goal. He also played it to Messi on the third, though it was Messi's run that sealed it. Still, Ronnie knows he's making that run and got it to him. Largely absent in the second though, but it was down to 10 men and he didn't have Eto'o to work with.

Sylvinho - 5 - Another absentee. He really didn't bring much when he came on. It's like he was timid out there.

Belletti - 5 - Not much from him either. I think he added more than Sylvinho and at least tried to get forward. Defense looked more stable when he came on, but be careful giving him the credit as IMO it was down to the numbers.

Eidur - 6 - Really gets the rating for some hard work. He didn't add much though other than that header from the freekick. That could have been dangerous had Puyol not been in the way.

Rijkaard - 1 - What do you want me to say Frank? I'm not bashing him like I've seen others do on this forum lately, but he's really got me questioning what he is doing. 3-4-3 was a mistake, and let's be honest here, he should have known that from the previous matches. Get it back to 4-3-3 and experiment at home with video games Frank. Then he pulled Eto'o. ***? Marquez was on, put him at the back or pull a midfielder. He had more than one other option and took what was possibly the worst option. I hope he gets it together because despite some of the player's poor performances, he's not doing any better.

les Habs

03-13-2007, 02:09 AM

Have to say this... I couldn't wait for the result. I had to check it before I saw the match. I even saw the highlights. Still the goal in extra time along with the celebration brought a few small tears. That kid did a Ronaldinho in that match.

helicecopter

03-13-2007, 04:42 AM

Have to say this... I couldn't wait for the result. I had to check it before I saw the match. .Loser!!

helicecopter

03-13-2007, 05:04 AM

Valdes - 8 - Came up big with some saves that at the end of the day kept us in it. Did particularly well to save on van Nistelrooy on that breakaway. Not at fault on the goals.Key and nice save on that Ruud's finish, where he left his arm high and stopped that little lob.
Oleguer - 2 - He did do well to win one ball in the midfield. Seriously. Other than that though, dreadful. At the end of the day I have a problem defending him, but he shouldn't have been in that situation. Doesn't excuse his actions, but still.

Thuram - 4 - Really set them up for that first goal. He looked shaky at times, but also made some nice plays too. Overall though he was shaky and after this sentence I am changing my 5 rating to a 4.

Puyol - 5 - Tough one. I'm tempted with a 6, but Ramos beat him to the ball on their third. That did it for me. Other than that, he was on/off. Best of the three at the back, but it was three at the back.I think you are a bit harsh with the defenders here. It was a very difficult game for them the way it was played by Barca, especially the second half where they were continually EXPOSED.

Oleguer didn't deserve the first yellow so neither the red.. and Thuram was strong in the second half me think.

Marquez - 3 - I was going to go with a 4, but IMO he was worse than Thuram despite Thuram's mistake. He had a nice volley that forced a save, but not much esle. He was poor in the challenge and gave the ball away too much. No doubt he was worse than Thuram.
Xavi - 5 - He was drowned out in that midfield. Too many cooks and when that's the case he's usually the last one holding the spatula. Put Messi in well with a through ball and got back well on one play, but that's really about all.More than one unusual mistake from him.
Iniesta - 7 - The real bright spot in midfield. He was our workhorse offensively in midfield and was all over the place at times. Some real skill from him too. Totally faked out somebody in midfield in the first half. Had a little backheel played into Messi's path. Made a nice run into the box, but put it wide from his left foot as he was being closed down. Actually that one was the only real mistake i can remember by him in this game. A great play wasted by the bad decision to not pass the ball to the wide man. He basically had no chance to score by himself..

as for the rest, i already hinted previously how much i liked some of his plays in this game. And he was really impressive as for effort and running as well.
Messi - 10 - Damn! I'm having trouble not giving a 10. **** it, it's a 10. Sorry, it can NOT be a 10 with the goal he missed in the first half.. that should have been an hat-trick already.. or at least should have forced a great save.
Eto'o - 7 - ... He looked hungrier, fitter and better. Hopefully he's getting to complete match fitness.
He looked MUCH better than on Tuesday.. too bad he had to leave the pitch but it was probably the right decision.. i mean, he could have substituted Marquez but it was 2-2 with ten men.. at least Franklin got one thing right, he didn't sub Messi during the intermission (nor later), i would have shouted at my television for the rest of the game!

Ronaldinho - 6 I think he deserved a better grade.
One of his best games of the season imo.

Rijkaard - 1 - What do you want me to say Frank? I'm not bashing him like I've seen others do on this forum lately, but he's really got me questioning what he is doing. 3-4-3 was a mistake, and let's be honest here, he should have known that from the previous matches. Get it back to 4-3-3 and experiment at home with video games Frank. Then he pulled Eto'o. ***? Marquez was on, put him at the back or pull a midfielder. He had more than one other option and took what was possibly the worst option. as i pointed out above, there was a WORSE option actually ;)

anyway, i don't know what Franklin is smoking these days..:shakehead
the 3-4-3 was much less of a damage in this game compared to the complete non-sense it was for the Liverpool game, but still..
btw, *** is he thinking when he plays Eto'o wide on the left and Ronaldinho as center forward?!
No need for any crappy overthinking dear franklin, you HAVE to put Eto'o in center on Helguera's zone to attack him with Samuel's great speed. It really doesn't take a genius to figure that out! :banghead:.

FlyHigh

03-13-2007, 04:59 PM

Wow! I actually managed to watch that game without seeing the result, what a fantastic match! I'll start out by going over LH's rating.

Valdes - 8 - Came up big with some saves that at the end of the day kept us in it. Did particularly well to save on van Nistelrooy on that breakaway. Not at fault on the goals.

Agree. Loved the lob save, he's pretty underrated. Not quite one of the best in the world, but he's way up there.

Oleguer - 2 - He did do well to win one ball in the midfield. Seriously. Other than that though, dreadful. At the end of the day I have a problem defending him, but he shouldn't have been in that situation. Doesn't excuse his actions, but still.

Thuram - 4 - Really set them up for that first goal. He looked shaky at times, but also made some nice plays too. Overall though he was shaky and after this sentence I am changing my 5 rating to a 4.

Puyol - 5 - Tough one. I'm tempted with a 6, but Ramos beat him to the ball on their third. That did it for me. Other than that, he was on/off. Best of the three at the back, but it was three at the back.

Agree with Oleguer, but I'd bump up Thuram and Puyol a point each. The Ramos header was nearly unstoppable and honestly, that hardly ever happens, he was 15 yards away from goal and facing the wrong way, how many times does that go in?

Marquez - 3 - I was going to go with a 4, but IMO he was worse than Thuram despite Thuram's mistake. He had a nice volley that forced a save, but not much esle. He was poor in the challenge and gave the ball away too much.

Xavi - 5 - He was drowned out in that midfield. Too many cooks and when that's the case he's usually the last one holding the spatula. Put Messi in well with a through ball and got back well on one play, but that's really about all.

Deco - 5 - Some real harsh comments on this forum about this match for him. I thought he battled and worked pretty hard. I think he covered a lot of ground in this one. He made some smart fouls, but was flirting with another card. He won a few balls or had plays that allowed others to get the ball (once where Iniesta got it). He also schooled Gago on the right and then pulled it back for Iniesta to get a chance. It was a mixed bag though and I think one play summed it up... he won the ball then promptly coughed it up. 50/50. Still, some of the ratings I've seen are harsh.

Iniesta - 7 - The real bright spot in midfield. He was our workhorse offensively in midfield and was all over the place at times. Some real skill from him too. Totally faked out somebody in midfield in the first half. Had a little backheel played into Messi's path. Made a nice run into the box, but put it wide from his left foot as he was being closed down.

Pretty much agree with all of these. Xavi and Deco never looked comfortable, I think part of the problem was the decision to play 4 in midfield, stupid by Rijkaard.

Iniesta has this great habit of winning the ball in dangerous places for the opposition and then creating chances, it reminds me a little bit of Vieira starting all those Arsenal counter-attacks. Very impressed with him.

Messi - 10 - Damn! I'm having trouble not giving a 10. **** it, it's a 10.

Eto'o - 7 - ... He looked hungrier, fitter and better. Hopefully he's getting to complete match fitness.

Ronaldinho - 6 - I'll start by saying that people shouldn't forget he was considered to possibly miss this match. It wasn't far off. That said, I'm sort of in shock at the comments on him performance and some of the ratings. He was good enough in the first half and his run really made the second goal. He also played it to Messi on the third, though it was Messi's run that sealed it. Still, Ronnie knows he's making that run and got it to him. Largely absent in the second though, but it was down to 10 men and he didn't have Eto'o to work with.

I agree with Helice. No way Messi gets a 10 with that miss at the end of the 1st half, sorry, but that really could have changed the game.

Eto'o was good, looked like he was lacking a bit of sharpness, but was really good all the same.

I'd give Ronnie a 7. Had a part in all 3 of Barca's goals and created a couple of other good chances.

I don't know what Rijkaard is on, subbing Eto'o was madness when he could have just pulled Marquez back to defense. This 3-4-3 is a disaster.

Madrid Verdict

Loved Guti, no offense to Messi and LH will kill me, but Guti was the best player on the pitch. Had a major part in all of Real's goals and was the only creative influence in that midfield. Won a bunch of balls and I don't remember him making a mistake for the entire game. If he were consistent, he'd be a fixture on Spain's NT.

Van Nistelrooy was also great, scored 2 good goals (the 1st one was outside the box!) and would have had a hat-trick except for several great saves by Valdes. Raul wasn't so great, I forgot he was on the field for the last 30 minutes of the 1st half.

I thought Madrid looked decent although they were lucky that Oleguer got red-carded because Barca were really starting to press pretty hard.

To close, does Gago remind anyone else of a 12 year-old girl?

les Habs

03-13-2007, 08:31 PM

Key and nice save on that Ruud's finish, where he left his arm high and stopped that little lob.
I think you are a bit harsh with the defenders here. It was a very difficult game for them the way it was played by Barca, especially the second half where they were continually EXPOSED.

Oleguer didn't deserve the first yellow so neither the red.. and Thuram was strong in the second half me think.
No doubt he was worse than Thuram.
More than one unusual mistake from him.
Actually that one was the only real mistake i can remember by him in this game. A great play wasted by the bad decision to not pass the ball to the wide man. He basically had no chance to score by himself..

as for the rest, i already hinted previously how much i liked some of his plays in this game. And he was really impressive as for effort and running as well.
Sorry, it can NOT be a 10 with the goal he missed in the first half.. that should have been an hat-trick already.. or at least should have forced a great save.
He looked MUCH better than on Tuesday.. too bad he had to leave the pitch but it was probably the right decision.. i mean, he could have substituted Marquez but it was 2-2 with ten men.. at least Franklin got one thing right, he didn't sub Messi during the intermission (nor later), i would have shouted at my television for the rest of the game!
I think he deserved a better grade.
One of his best games of the season imo.
as i pointed out above, there was a WORSE option actually ;)

anyway, i don't know what Franklin is smoking these days..:shakehead
the 3-4-3 was much less of a damage in this game compared to the complete non-sense it was for the Liverpool game, but still..
btw, *** is he thinking when he plays Eto'o wide on the left and Ronaldinho as center forward?!
No need for any crappy overthinking dear franklin, you HAVE to put Eto'o in center on Helguera's zone to attack him with Samuel's great speed. It really doesn't take a genius to figure that out! :banghead:.

Completely agree on almost everything. A couple of things:

1 I don't think I was that harsh on the defenders. I think if you look at what I said you'll see that I almost gave both Puyol and Thuram a point higher each. More than that for either of them though is probably too much. As for Thuram, I would say that I stand corrected a bit. My comments were more on the first half. In the second half he did cut out a couple of crosses. He also did well dribbling out of danger, but seeing that in that sort of traffic and your heart skips a beat. Puyol wasn't that bad either. He did make that nice run in the second half and showed the team what was needed. Still for me, he was beaten by Ramos to that header. Wonder header of sorts, but he still beat Puyol to it. Still Puyol deserved better from me. As for the tactics, I mentioned that a few times (and you guys didn't get the full post, just my ratings). Still, I have to take into account certain things. I agree on Oleguer's first card and IMO the ref screwed us and likely took away a win, but I didn't really want to go there. I'm most annoyed with what the ref did (or rather didn't do) after Messi's third goal.

2 I stand by Messi's 10. Miss or not, that last goal under those circumstances to make the hat-trick is enough. That was a legendary performance in a legendary game. It was all over the World coverage for that and he delivered the goods in one of the biggest games all year on one of the biggest stages in the World.

3 No, it was not probably the right decision. He should have slotted Marquez at the back (no sub) or put on another defender for Marquez. Horrible decision IMO.

4 Yeah, Ronnie probably deserved a 7. It's hard when he only makes so many plays. He disappeared in the second half, but like with the defenders and as I mentioned in my comments it was down to the tactics more than him.

5 Well, I felt Eto'o spent the most time in the middle. Thing is that he's so mobile. Also, both he and Ronaldinho switching occassionally probably takes it's toll on the defense. As for the worse option, I just assume that wasn't even in consideration.

BTW, as I said in some of my comments, a lot of my fellow Cules' comments were pretty harsh on some of the guys.