JP Ricciardi

mr gib
07-29-2006, 04:36 PM
... better get some pitching fast or its over for the jays

barrytrotzsneck
07-29-2006, 08:10 PM
... better get some pitching fast or its over for the jays

I don't really think it was ever NOT over for the Jays, and that's no slight against them. They're getting better, year after year, but consistency still seems to elude them. That won't fly when you're playing in a division with the Yankees and the Red Sox, who...even in a relatively "off" year for both...are still always just good enough to stay in it.

KH1
07-29-2006, 08:56 PM
... better get some pitching fast or its over for the jays
No, this isn't the year for Toronto. They are at best the 6th best team in the AL behind the Yankees, Red Sox, Tigers, White Sox and Twins and pitching help is going to be way too expensive at this deadline. It's not worth selling too many parts to fight a losing battle.

If I'm not mistaken their major parts are gonna be back next season, they should try and make a run at Zito or Schmidt this offseason.

BAuldie
07-29-2006, 09:01 PM
No, this isn't the year for Toronto. They are at best the 6th best team in the AL behind the Yankees, Red Sox, Tigers, White Sox and Twins and pitching help is going to be way too expensive at this deadline. It's not worth selling too many parts to fight a losing battle.

If I'm not mistaken their major parts are gonna be back next season, they should try and make a run at Zito or Schmidt this offseason.

Yep.. we have some decent guys up for UFA.. Cat, Speier, Zaun to name a couple.. would be nice to bring those guys.. Molina, Schoenweiss can move on.

Pitching has definetly been a problem but injuries have sure played a role. A healthy Burnett at the start probably would've got us another 6 or 7 wins. We've been without Chacin for a while now.. probably another 6 or 7 wins there too.

And if it wasn't for Josh freakin Towers that would be another 5 or so wins.. add those in and voila!

Granted every team has had injuries so this is just useless whining but hey.. its still fun.

mr gib
07-29-2006, 10:14 PM
thanks for the input -

ya not this year - again - such great bat's tho and the doc too

Enoch
07-29-2006, 10:51 PM
Yep.. we have some decent guys up for UFA.. Cat, Speier, Zaun to name a couple.. would be nice to bring those guys.. Molina, Schoenweiss can move on.

Pitching has definetly been a problem but injuries have sure played a role. A healthy Burnett at the start probably would've got us another 6 or 7 wins. We've been without Chacin for a while now.. probably another 6 or 7 wins there too.

And if it wasn't for Josh freakin Towers that would be another 5 or so wins.. add those in and voila!

Granted every team has had injuries so this is just useless whining but hey.. its still fun.

I don't think Burnett and Chacin would have gained an additional 14 wins for the Jays. To put that in perspective, the Jays would be in first place right now, even pro-rating those wins out. How many starts did Burnett miss anyways...

Scoogs
07-29-2006, 10:51 PM
It's still possible that the Jays make a run.

Jays have pretty much had Bostons number for awhile now.. We have 8 games remaining against them. If we could keep within 3-4 GB of them, and take 6 of 8, or better.. Who knows?

Same with the Yanks. Not the same level of dominance over them at all, but we are capable of beating them. The Jays have 9 games left vs New York.

If the right things come together, it's still very possible.

Biggsy
07-29-2006, 10:52 PM
Unless he doesnt have to give up much for a good starter then go for it but hopefully some guys can get healthy and they win some much needed games and stay in there i think they will be good for this year and then like other guys said go after another big gun pitcher and there set


Hopefully

BAuldie
07-29-2006, 11:02 PM
I don't think Burnett and Chacin would have gained an additional 14 wins for the Jays. To put that in perspective, the Jays would be in first place right now, even pro-rating those wins out. How many starts did Burnett miss anyways...

Erm.. not sure the exact amount.. I know I'm probably over exaggerating but his record is only like 2-4. He's probably started maybe 10? games at most. Can't check atm.

Chacin was doing well at the start of the season until the injury started to slow him down.

When ya think about it.. 6 or 7 isn't that unrealistic for Burnett.. put him around 9 wins.. Chacin was 5-0 (yes he didn't pitch that great in his last couple of wins) so seeing him hit 11 or 12 wins at that pace certainly is possible.

KH1
07-30-2006, 11:13 AM
It's still possible that the Jays make a run.

Jays have pretty much had Bostons number for awhile now.. We have 8 games remaining against them. If we could keep within 3-4 GB of them, and take 6 of 8, or better.. Who knows?

Same with the Yanks. Not the same level of dominance over them at all, but we are capable of beating them. The Jays have 9 games left vs New York.

If the right things come together, it's still very possible.
It's possible but not likely enough that they should mortgage the team's future for a Barry Zito or Dontrelle Willis who will cost them probably their top 2 prospects and a current big league contributor.

Because even if they added a great #2 starter they still have to gain a lot of ground on the Yankees/Red Sox/Twins/White Sox. That's a lot of teams to leapfrog for an inconsistent squad like Toronto.

TeamPlayer
07-30-2006, 12:23 PM
We need LUGO

KH1
07-30-2006, 06:27 PM
We need LUGO
Well I'd rather see him in Toronto than Boston, that's for sure.

Biggsy
07-30-2006, 06:29 PM
Well I'd rather see him in Toronto than Boston, that's for sure.

yeah me too

X0X0A0
07-30-2006, 06:46 PM
We need LUGO

Get in a bidding war with Boston and overpay for him please.

Scoogs
07-30-2006, 07:00 PM
We need LUGO

No we don't.

Shappa
07-30-2006, 07:16 PM
After today I have offically given up on the 2006 season. We're now six back in the division, and with the Yanks and Boston ahead of us, it's too much to make up at this point.

I really wish Toronto could win on the West coast, it seems every trip out there ends in disaster.

Douggy
07-31-2006, 06:41 AM
I'm tired of hearing all this 'wait till next year when we have Burnett and Chacin the whole year'.

1. We are losing Ted Lilly next year and he's been our 2nd best starter this year.

2. If you think we'll EVER see Burnett go the entire year without going a month on the DL you're kidding yourself.

3. Chacin might need Tommy John Surgery so who knows if he'll play at all next year. Either way his ERA was above 5.00 before he got injured....

Look back on some of the preseason threads you see around here or stuff on other websites. It's always "Well the Jays have Roy Halladay and [insert name of decent number two] so if they can get some quality starts out of the 3-5 spots they might give the Yankees and Red Sox a run for their money."

They say this every year, and every year it doesn't happen.

If the Jays land Zito I'd call them favourites to make the playoffs next year, but I'd put that at about a 1 in 100 chance of happening.

Until we move to the NL West we don't have a chance.

ComrieFanatic
07-31-2006, 11:36 AM
Making excuses for the Jays being where they are in the standings is getting pretty dry. Anyone who thought Burnett was the saviour for our team was dead wrong. He is a career .500 pitcher who is ALWAYS on the DL. For a power pitcher he doesnt even have more strikeouts than innings pitched in his last three years. Chacin is not the answer. When he is on the mound he gets great run support. He usually lasts 5-6 innings and gives up 3-4 runs. Finally, Josh Towers would NEVER have lasted starting on the Yanks or the Sox after he lost the first 5 games with an ERA of over 9. That is what seperates the Jays from the elite status.

If you look at the other teams in contention they have had similar injury problems but still have pushed on. The Yanks are the biggest example: No Matsui or Sheffield for most of the year; still have more wins and more runs scored than the Jays. What if the Twins had used Liriano as a starter before late May? Would they have 7 more wins?

mr gib
07-31-2006, 11:52 AM
Making excuses for the Jays being where they are in the standings is getting pretty dry. Anyone who thought Burnett was the saviour for our team was dead wrong. He is a career .500 pitcher who is ALWAYS on the DL. For a power pitcher he doesnt even have more strikeouts than innings pitched in his last three years. Chacin is not the answer. When he is on the mound he gets great run support. He usually lasts 5-6 innings and gives up 3-4 runs. Finally, Josh Towers would NEVER have lasted starting on the Yanks or the Sox after he lost the first 5 games with an ERA of over 9. That is what seperates the Jays from the elite status.

If you look at the other teams in contention they have had similar injury problems but still have pushed on. The Yanks are the biggest example: No Matsui or Sheffield for most of the year; still have more wins and more runs scored than the Jays. What if the Twins had used Liriano as a starter before late May? Would they have 7 more wins?
it seems the jays have the bats but are two starters and a middle relief guy short - watching 4 - 0 leads evaporate is a drag

mr gib
07-31-2006, 03:31 PM
" we're done " - how can you be done when you didnt do anything

http://tsn.ca/mlb/news_story/?ID=172913&hubname=

The Nemesis
07-31-2006, 04:24 PM
" we're done " - how can you be done when you didnt do anything

http://tsn.ca/mlb/news_story/?ID=172913&hubname= (http://tsn.ca/mlb/news_story/?ID=172913&hubname=)

Well, they did do Hillenbrand/Accardo.

To be fair, I have to agree with the assesment of some analysts that the price for some players was far too steep. Lugo went to the Dodgers, and it cost them one of their best prospects in Joel Guzman. The Jays are not realistically in a great shot to make the post season from where they are, and acquiring Lugo to make a nigh-impossible run might be counterproductive.

While I wouldn't write off the season just yet, I think that it's probably a safer move to see how the rest of the season pans out for some of the guys on the farm and see if maybe they can't plug those last couple of holes through free agency and/or promotions next season.

mr gib
07-31-2006, 05:25 PM
Well, they did do Hillenbrand/Accardo.

To be fair, I have to agree with the assesment of some analysts that the price for some players was far too steep. Lugo went to the Dodgers, and it cost them one of their best prospects in Joel Guzman. The Jays are not realistically in a great shot to make the post season from where they are, and acquiring Lugo to make a nigh-impossible run might be counterproductive.

While I wouldn't write off the season just yet, I think that it's probably a safer move to see how the rest of the season pans out for some of the guys on the farm and see if maybe they can't plug those last couple of holes through free agency and/or promotions next season.
true enuff -

the talking head's are debating whether they shoulda dealt burnett

Yes Im Peter Ing
07-31-2006, 07:27 PM
true enuff -

the talking head's are debating whether they shoulda dealt burnett

McCown's a moron.

And would anyone here have honestly dealt McGowan and Accardo for Lugo?

mr gib
07-31-2006, 08:14 PM
McCown's a moron.

And would anyone here have honestly dealt McGowan and Accardo for Lugo?
ya saw that too - he he

wildone26*
08-04-2006, 09:27 AM
McCown's a moron.

And would anyone here have honestly dealt McGowan and Accardo for Lugo?

Absolutely. First of all McGowan is gone on waivers in April if they dont trade him, so you are basicaly just trading Accardo straight up for Lugo since McGowan is gone anyway if you dont trade him. Lugo for Accardo(McGowan as well but trading him is essential before April anyway)I would do.