This organization's problem was exemplified tonight.

willie
11-13-2003, 09:47 PM
I'm really not all that dissapointed with the result (there are 82 games in the year and a blown lead here and there will always occur) so much as I am with Andy Murray. (and, as I think about it, the Kings organization as a whole)

1:10 or so to go. Tie game. Kings top unit just got on the ice and the Leafs send out their top unit. What does Andy do? Puts out Norstrom/Miller and the stopper line. What is Andy saying? We aren't playing to win, we are playing not to lose. Granted, I can understand why he did that at that juncture of the game but I don't agree with it. That philosophy might get you into the playoffs but it sure as hell wont win you any championships.

Really though, I am not dissapointed THAT much with that decision because we did walk away with a point. That said, his decision in overtime is unjustifiable.

40 seconds left. Leafs top unit on the ice. What does Andy do? Put out a god damn stopper line. Norstrom? Miller? Belanger? Frolov? (I am not against Frolov being on the ice, he was having a great game, but you just *know* Andy put him out there first and foremost because he is good defensive player as well) WTF is that? :rant: It's overtime against a non-conference team and your playing for a tie??? Inexcusable. I am absolutely livid at that decision.

This really shows the biggest of problem of the Kings organization. They are a complacent organization run by complacent people who are not entirely committed to winning.

A complacent coaching staff.
A complacent general manager. (this isn't DT bashing, I love the guy, but when was the last time he took a risk with the intention of putting a Stanley Cup hockey club together? Cliff Ronning? :shakehead: )
A complacent owner.

Unless this organization starts taking some damn risks with the intention of fielding a squad that can compete for the Cup, they will continue to muddle their way in mediocrity.

Face Wash
11-14-2003, 05:29 AM
We aren't playing to win, we are playing not to lose. Granted, I can understand why he did that at that juncture of the game but I don't agree with it. That philosophy might get you into the playoffs but it sure as hell wont win you any championships.

Now I see why the Kings have had $$$ problems. The the only people in the organtization you can blame then for the Kings $$$ problems is the Marketing Department. Why?? Well, for obviously not getting the word out that last night's game was for the Stanley Cup. I didn't realize the Kings were playing for a Championship last night. Had I known, I would have made a much stronger push to get tickets. Why didn't the Kings play better, didn't they wanna win a Cup?? :p
This really shows the biggest of problem of the Kings organization. They are a complacent organization run by complacent people who are not entirely committed to winning.

A complacent coaching staff.
A complacent general manager. (this isn't DT bashing, I love the guy, but when was the last time he took a risk with the intention of putting a Stanley Cup hockey club together? Cliff Ronning? :shakehead: )
A complacent owner.

Complacent coaching? Oh I get it... You're upset because John Van Boxmeer didn't hit that guy in the corner when he had the chance, or that (BIG) Ray Bennett wasn't willing to pay the price in front of the net or that Harpo didn't make the smart quick decision on the PP like he always used, ya know like 15 years ago... Willie, the coaches don't play, they can only stand behind the bench and motivate... they can't MAKE these guys execute.

DT is hardly complacent... I mean, you did see what he did in the offseason, right? And that was with the idea Allison and Deadmarsh would be back.

As far as the owners go, replace the word "complacent" with the word "cheap".

Unless this organization starts taking some damn risks with the intention of fielding a squad that can compete for the Cup, they will continue to muddle their way in mediocrity.

Look Willie, you know I think you're a great poster. Hopefully you won't get upset that I've had a little fun at your expense here... Certainly you can take a crack at me whenever you'd like... but the bottomline is that the Kings not winning last night has nothing to do with the coaching matchups and had nothing to do AM's philosophy or any complacency (or cheapness) by Anschutz, Leiweke, Taylor or AM and his staff. They didn't win last night because they have a shaky *** goaltender who looks nothing like the guy who has one of the lowest GAA's and SPCT's in the business the last 3 years.... PERIOD!

jfont
11-14-2003, 06:41 AM
i think willie was just really ticked last night when he posted...i do believe willie is from ontario...and if he's a kings fan, that must mean he really hates the leafs....and is royally p.o.ed the kings blew a 3 goal lead in the 3rd...heck this tie feels like a loss to me.

MOOSE55
11-14-2003, 06:52 AM
Now I see why the Kings have had $$$ problems. The the only people in the organtization you can blame then for the Kings $$$ problems is the Marketing Department. Why?? Well, for obviously not getting the word out that last night's game was for the Stanley Cup. I didn't realize the Kings were playing for a Championship last night. Had I known, I would have made a much stronger push to get tickets. Why didn't the Kings play better, didn't they wanna win a Cup?? :p


Complacent coaching? Oh I get it... You're upset because John Van Boxmeer didn't hit that guy in the corner when he had the chance, or that (BIG) Ray Bennett wasn't willing to pay the price in front of the net or that Harpo didn't make the smart quick decision on the PP like he always used, ya know like 15 years ago... Willie, the coaches don't play, they can only stand behind the bench and motivate... they can't MAKE these guys execute.

DT is hardly complacent... I mean, you did see what he did in the offseason, right? And that was with the idea Allison and Deadmarsh would be back.

As far as the owners go, replace the word "complacent" with the word "cheap".



Look Willie, you know I think you're a great poster. Hopefully you won't get upset that I've had a little fun at your expense here... Certainly you can take a crack at me whenever you'd like... but the bottomline is that the Kings not winning last night has nothing to do with the coaching matchups and had nothing to do AM's philosophy or any complacency (or cheapness) by Anschutz, Leiweke, Taylor or AM and his staff. They didn't win last night because they have a shaky *** goaltender who looks nothing like the guy who has one of the lowest GAA's and SPCT's in the business the last 3 years.... PERIOD!

I agree with what your saying, they Kings did blow a 3 goal lead.....Having leaders like Deadmarsh, and Allison out doesn't help. Our PP, will get better when those guys get back as well as Stumpel.....we only have one pp ubit that can score right now. PK is a problem.....Roman and guys like Norstrom/Miller has to step up in these situations.....AM has been good at solving these problems in the past....now is time for him to do it again. I think AM is a great coach, the only problem I have with him is that he doesn't dress an enforcer enough. He turned this team around. DT has done a great job with what he was given....Goaltending was a problem, and he solved it (Roman is better than Felix), We needed a new 2nd line centre, and he brought in the guy that has the best chemistry with our star(Palffy), some people wanted a top 6, and guess what you got it, Luc is playing like he did 3-4 years ago. He gave us a bonus in Klatt. We added more depth players. Schnieder was traded, and Visnovski has stepped up to replace him. We had 3 1st this year which will help us down the road.

I know I was pissed yesterday but we have to look at it like this, We lead the division, our defence is proving alot of us wrong and scoring. Armstrong, Klatt, and Luc are playing better than expected. And most of all we are winning despite injuries.

MOOSE55
11-14-2003, 08:33 AM
i think willie was just really ticked last night when he posted...i do believe willie is from ontario...and if he's a kings fan, that must mean he really hates the leafs....and is royally p.o.ed the kings blew a 3 goal lead in the 3rd...heck this tie feels like a loss to me.
I know how he feels.....The leaf fans are the biggest homers in the league(won the most hated team poll). They rated their team right up there.....top 5 usually......doesn't matter if they end up in last place, the arena will still sell-out. They most leaf fans find out that I cheer for the Kings they usually say "Why, they suck", "The leafs are better" or "if Gretzky didn't get away with slashing Gilmour, we would have one the cup(most believe that if a penaly was called they would have won the game and easily beat the Canadiens to win the cup)". One idiot who wasn't happy with Sundin's powerplay time, when on the FAN 590 and said something like "We get a power play, and Quinn doesn't play the best player ever to skate in the NHL".

It's like a Kings fan livin in a state with a bunch of Duck fans, most of which are homers like cough**M=G, and the team you cheer for is 1000's km away.

Not all leaf fans are like this, usually the ones I'm talking about don't know **** about hockey(so won't likely be on HF)

jfont
11-14-2003, 08:48 AM
It's like a Kings fan livin in a state with a bunch of Duck fans, most of which are homers like cough**M=G, and the team you cheer for is 1000's km away.

:lol: sorry, but i thought that was just funny...

Kings Fanatic
11-14-2003, 09:28 AM
Yes, we back our team winning or losing , is that a bad thing? Should we be like you 'real' hockey fans and only care when they are winning?

And really, I am glad people cared enough to vote the Leafs as their most hated team. It is nice to know they made that much of an impact on them.

By the way, how does someone from Barrie become a Kings fan?

Hey, the people you see on here are the ones that back the Kings win or lose. We are "real" fans and we live and die with our team just like you with your leafs. Yeah there are plenty of fair weather fans in LA but they don't really check HF.

MOOSE55
11-14-2003, 09:29 AM
Yes, we back our team winning or losing , is that a bad thing? Should we be like you 'real' hockey fans and only care when they are winning?

And really, I am glad people cared enough to vote the Leafs as their most hated team. It is nice to know they made that much of an impact on them.

By the way, how does someone from Barrie become a Kings fan?
Call me a leaf-hating troll if you want.......they earned my spite.......alot of leaf fans turn their noses at other teams, I've be bothered about the team I cheer for all the time.....I've been to the Leaf/Kings game every year(until this year), and it's always the same, a ton of idiots jeering at you every time the leafs score, making fun of the jersey I wear, making excuses why they lost....Living in Ontario, I'm sure you heared some of those morons who come on radio sometimes(even the guys behind the mic think so). Some of my best friends are the same way.....it's because of them I don't like the leafs.......I followed Gretzky since I was little, he went to the Kings when I was 6 or so......I stayed with the team when he left.

swinginutter*
11-14-2003, 09:43 AM
I have to agree with "willie" here.

I've been whining about it all year. And, i'll probably continue. AM who has been our best coach by far for a very long time seriously needs to have his head examined. I've said it over and over that we're the softest team in this league, but it's not because of our roster, it's who AM decides to play. I went to last night's game and we completely got outmuscled. Although Toronto is built that way from top to bottom, we still need to come out tougher, and even if AM played Kip, it still wouldn't make up for the abuse we took. He would have only played him for six minutes anyways. Gary Roberts was a *****ing menace last night, and we did d*ck about it (minus the early Lappy fight). Marchment and Domi were taking runs at Ziggy, and guess who protected him.......Ziggy! It's disgraceful that our star "finesse" players get smashed every night. The same game that fans are watching is the same game our coaching staff is watching and we're doing nothing about it.......We are the league's whipping *****, end of story! And every time we scrape a victory through it justifies AM's roster.
I also agree with "facewash" on Cechmanek, he's been a joke so far and nobody is saying anything about it. All you ask for from your goaltender is to make the basic saves, and a few big ones every night. So far I haven't really seen it, especially when it counts.
As far as that Toronto fan goes here, he's right! I'd love to be the most hated team in this league!

MOOSE55
11-14-2003, 09:48 AM
:lol: sorry, but i thought that was just funny...
:yo: and that's an understatment :)

guzmania
11-14-2003, 12:16 PM
Yes, we back our team winning or losing , is that a bad thing? Should we be like you 'real' hockey fans and only care when they are winning?



I've been a Kings fan since I moved to L.A. in '75. I've backed the team every year since and will every year that I'm alive. Win or lose. Most Angelinos don't know icing from chicharones, that doesn't mean there aren't great fans too. When I went to Ontario and Quebec and all everyone wanted to talk about was the NFL! It's just easier to be a true hockey fan in Canada, but comparing true fans, the fans aren't better, they're essentially equal.

KingPurpleDinosaur
11-14-2003, 12:26 PM
This really shows the biggest of problem of the Kings organization. They are a complacent organization run by complacent people who are not entirely committed to winning.


AM is the only coach i know who will pull the goalie at the 5 minute mark to go balls out for a win. he's done a lot of risky moves that i think contradict what one would call "complacent." i couldn'mt be more happy having AM on our side.

nikolai19
11-14-2003, 02:38 PM
One missing ingredient I think that is being overlooked and could cause potential problems throughout the year is that we need another defenseman in the mold of Norstrom or Miller. Last night, Norstrom had to take on a big guy like Sundin the whole night. No rest at all. Miller had to deal with Roberts, Domi, and Nolan going hard to the net and being relentless. Not to mention, that as much as we love Visnovsky, we all know his weakness is that he has trouble with forwards that are bigger than him. He has no trouble with anyone coming down one on one with him, he's great at that. It's when he gets in the corners with the likes of Roberts, Nolan, and Sundin where he has some trouble. Gleason is 21 years old and I don't expect him to play too aggresively considering he probably won't get many calls go his way.

My point is that we need another bruising defenseman. Holland, Modry, Visnovsky, and even Gleason right now are not physical players. They can hold their own but players on other teams don't respect them like Miller and Norstrom. People don't look over their shoulder and get worried if Lubo is behind them going into the corner. Miller and Norstrom...they had better brace themselves. One name that has come up is Sheldon Souray. Pretty big, fairly mean, and he wouldn't put up with any of the garbage that Roberts was trying to pull last night.

It's not going to get any easier when Vancouver comes into town and Bertuzzi walks over people. Or if Dallas comes in and Guerin and Ott are playing with reckless abandon. The Western conference has it's share of tough guys who are bolted down in front of the net. I don't think Kuznetsov or Norton (when healthy) would be the answer to those problems either.

To me that is the most pressing need by the organization right now. Coaching may have been an issue yesterday, but the Leafs pounded the piss out of us in the second and third and there was nothing LA could have done about it.

jfont
11-14-2003, 05:16 PM
One missing ingredient I think that is being overlooked and could cause potential problems throughout the year is that we need another defenseman in the mold of Norstrom or Miller. Last night, Norstrom had to take on a big guy like Sundin the whole night. No rest at all. Miller had to deal with Roberts, Domi, and Nolan going hard to the net and being relentless.
*cough*Simpson*cough*


*cough*waiver draft*cough*


:D

agentfouser
11-14-2003, 10:51 PM
Gleason is 21 years old and I don't expect him to play too aggresively considering he probably won't get many calls go his way.


gleason is doing fairly well for his age, but he REALLY needs to stop trying to draw penalties. he is NEVER able to.

in the game where the ref (forget who) had a mic, gleason went after an attacker behind the net, but another attacker set a pick, and gleason sort of did this weak trip over the guy setting the pick, and the other one scored. when gleason complained about the non-call, the ref just laughed and said "you skated right into his leg, what were you doing?" it was just the sort of thing that he probably got away with in juniors, but he needs to forget everything else and concentrate on taking out his man.

against toronto there was one point where gleason was locked up with an attacker and they were skating through the kings' zone, and the attacker was holding gleason's stick under his arm. gleason takes one hand off the stick and starts waving it around to try and draw a call. the attacker didn't score, but again, that kid needs to get over trying to draw penalties and just take his man out.

sorry that doesn't have too much to do with what nik was saying, but i've been thinking about it and wanted to say something.