Jays Manager/Pitcher get into fight

Interesting to say the least.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2556925

First the Raptors now the Jays.


The **** is going on in Toronto. Im sick of this. :(

First the Raptors now the Jays.


The **** is going on in Toronto. Im sick of this. :(

Must be something about the city

Canadian Press photographer Aaron Harris, one of a handful of photographers to witness the incident, said Gibbons, five-foot-11 and 195 pounds, came down the steps and went right at Lilly, six-foot-one and 190 pounds.

The two began wrestling, clutching at each other's shirts before security team trainer George Poulis and several Blue Jays jumped in to break it up as a bewildered crowd of 28,280 looked on

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/article.jsp?content=20060821_204113_4260

:shakehead

I don't care what Lilly or Hillenbrand said. John Gibbons is a ****ing idiot. Competent managers don't ****ing fight their players. What a complete idiot. No matter whether there's a disagreement, MANAGERS DO NOT FIGHT PLAYERS!

They should dump Gibbons RIGHT NOW. But it's nice to see, according to the article, him get his *** kicked. A bloody nose. Don't fight with athletes if you're not one.

I don't care what Lilly or Hillenbrand said. John Gibbons is a ****ing idiot. Competent managers don't ****ing fight their players. What a complete idiot. No matter whether there's a disagreement, MANAGERS DO NOT FIGHT PLAYERS!

They should dump Gibbons RIGHT NOW.

I'm not defending Gibbons, but Lou Pinella, Walter Alston and Billy Martin fought their own players. Casey Stengel fought Leo Durocher under the stands once and they weren't on the same team. I agree that Gibbons should be fired, but sometimes competent managers do fight (or attempt to fight) their players. Of course, incompetents do too...

I don't care what Lilly or Hillenbrand said. John Gibbons is a ****ing idiot. Competent managers don't ****ing fight their players. What a complete idiot. No matter whether there's a disagreement, MANAGERS DO NOT FIGHT PLAYERS!

They should dump Gibbons RIGHT NOW. But it's nice to see, according to the article, him get his *** kicked. A bloody nose. Don't fight with athletes if you're not one.

I agree. The team really needs a coaching change. Afterwards he came out and whispered something into Halladay's ear. I would like to know what he said.

it looked like the jays were actually getting close to the playoffs about a month ago - then the hillenbrand thing - no players at the deadline - hinske gone - an anouncement that wells is gonna leave after next year - now a fight -

all with roy halliday doing his thing - what a waste - shame shame -

it has to be gibbon's - can his arse - right now - bring in someone everyone can look up to

I agree. The team really needs a coaching change. Afterwards he came out and whispered something into Halladay's ear. I would like to know what he said.
Whatever it was I hope it doesn't result in Halladay wanting to leave Toronto. :cry:

this is bad.

Whatever it was I hope it doesn't result in Halladay wanting to leave Toronto. :cry:

I saw the look from Burnett (who was sitting beside Doc when Gibbons said something to him). And AJ looked up like "***". Let's hope that it was nothing.

Shea Hillenbrand must be loving life right now.

Yeah, there's absolutely no blame on Lilly. A pitcher gives up seven runs in an inning, and goes berzerk when the manager pulls him. Give Gibbons the ball and walk off the mound with that little shred of dignity you still had, instead of acting like a drama queen.

These incidents might have more to do with Lilly and Hillenbrand's character than Gibbons.

Here's the complete video of the episode (on the field):

photobucket video Jays Manager/Pitcher confrontation (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v376/ccreamer97/?action=view&current=Composite942pm.flv)

Yeah, there's absolutely no blame on Lilly. A pitcher gives up seven runs in an inning, and goes berzerk when the manager pulls him. Give Gibbons the ball and walk off the mound with that little shred of dignity you still had, instead of acting like a drama queen.

These incidents might have more to do with Lilly and Hillenbrand's character than Gibbons.

Gibbons doesnt seem to have the players respect

I don't care what Lilly or Hillenbrand said. John Gibbons is a ****ing idiot. Competent managers don't ****ing fight their players. What a complete idiot. No matter whether there's a disagreement, MANAGERS DO NOT FIGHT PLAYERS!

They should dump Gibbons RIGHT NOW. But it's nice to see, according to the article, him get his *** kicked. A bloody nose. Don't fight with athletes if you're not one.
If you had to manage that guy and watch how badly he sucks all of the time, then you would want to punch him in the head too!

Agree with what Gibbons did or not, Ted Lilly is the first cut the Jays should make. He has shown nothing but mediocrity all season, and when he gets lit up for 7 runs in a third of an inning when he has an 8-0 lead, he tells his manager (the guy whose job is to tell him what to do), "I'm not ****ing going.", then calls him a ****ing a$$hole on his way off the mound. He showed up Gibbons in public and on national TV. Lilly deserved whatever he had coming...be it a trip to the waiver wire and/or a scrap with his manager. Hopefully it ends up being both.

Gibbons should definitely get the boot at this point. How often do you see a manager get in a confrontation with two players over the course of the season? He is making the Blue Jays organization look like a joke- and destroying a half-way decent baseball team. And I think it is pretty safe to assume he does not have the respect of his team.

Man that was funny to watch. Maybe people will finally start to realize just how bad of a manager Gibbons is now. Not just for fighting his players (which should be enough for anyone) but I've never liked the way he handles his roster, especially his bullpen.

Agree with what Gibbons did or not, Ted Lilly is the first cut the Jays should make. He has shown nothing but mediocrity all season, and when he gets lit up for 7 runs in a third of an inning when he has an 8-0 lead, he tells his manager (the guy whose job is to tell him what to do), "I'm not ****ing going.", then calls him a ****ing a$$hole on his way off the mound. He showed up Gibbons in public and on national TV. Lilly deserved whatever he had coming...be it a trip to the waiver wire and/or a scrap with his manager. Hopefully it ends up being both.

I agree that Lilly acted like a child and caused the whole thing last night, but he hasn't been mediocre at all. He's been inconsistant.

I don't think I can remember and 'average' start from Lilly all year. Every time he goes out there he either gets lit up or goes 7 or 8 giving up 1 run.

I hope JP gives Gibbons the boot, theres alot of managers out there with the talent of this team could have made them a winner.

I hope JP gives Gibbons the boot, theres alot of managers out there with the talent of this team could have made them a winner.
Define 'winner'.

They have a winning record.

Lilly is known to be a troublemaker with the Jays since last year. However Gibbons should be let go also.

Anyone believe that Gibbons is going to get canned at the end of this year?

If you had to manage that guy and watch how badly he sucks all of the time, then you would want to punch him in the head too!



:biglaugh: that says it all tight there....get both their ***** on the first plane out of Pearson though. It's obvious that there's both character and respect issues in TO right now. Time for major damage control.:help:

Define 'winner'.

They have a winning record.
Since when is merely getting a 'winning record' ever good enough for this division? Being a few games over .500 means nothing in the AL East. Hell, the '03 Jays were better.

And like I said in the Jays thread... Lilly is NOT going to be back regardless if the Gibbons situation happened or not. The Giants will have an extra $30M in payroll (from Bonds and Schmidt being FAs), and Lilly has made it clear that he wants to go out west next season, so expect the Giants to immensely overpay.

Don't **** with Ted Lilly.

Billy Beane should admit the biggest mistake he ever made as a GM and bring him back to Oakland and let that overrated choker Zito get overpaid by one of the big franchises.

Lilly easily had the best pitching performance in a single game during the moneyball era. Beane was an idiot to trade him over Zito.

Don't **** with Ted Lilly.

Billy Beane should admit the biggest mistake he ever made as a GM and bring him back to Oakland and let that overrated choker Zito get overpaid by one of the big franchises.

Lilly easily had the best pitching performance in a single game during the moneyball era. Beane was an idiot to trade him over Zito.
hmmm - must be kidding - i can't tell

Lilly was the only A's starting pitcher during the moneyball era to pitch like a major league pitcher during a series clinching game.

Mulder, Hudson, and Zito all had their chances and completely fell apart each time.

Lilly was the only A's starting pitcher during the moneyball era to pitch like a major league pitcher during a series clinching game.

Mulder, Hudson, and Zito all had their chances and completely fell apart each time.
well how times have changed - last time i looked zito was in first place and lilly's on a bus outta town

Zito is the one A's pitcher who performs well in elimination games.

2000: Pitches 5.2 innings, allows 1 run as he keeps the A's alive against NY.
2001: Pitches 8 innings, allows 1 run, but the A's bats didnt do a thing, lost 1-0, cant blame the pitcher.
2002: Didn't pitch in an elimation game.
2003: Pitches game 5 against Boston, didnt pitch too badly but ran into trouble in the 6th, allowing 4 runs, as Oakland lost 4-3.

He owns a 3-2 post season record with an ERA of 2.76. Lilly on the other hand is 0-1, 4.15.

Zito is the one A's pitcher who performs well in elimination games.

2000: Pitches 5.2 innings, allows 1 run as he keeps the A's alive against NY.
2001: Pitches 8 innings, allows 1 run, but the A's bats didnt do a thing, lost 1-0, cant blame the pitcher.
2002: Didn't pitch in an elimation game.
2003: Pitches game 5 against Boston, didnt pitch too badly but ran into trouble in the 6th, allowing 4 runs, as Oakland lost 4-3.

He owns a 3-2 post season record with an ERA of 2.76. Lilly on the other hand is 0-1, 4.15.
Owned.

The game in 2000 was a low pressure situation with the A's giving him a 3 run headstart and a struggling Clemens on 3 days rest. He still gave up the big hit that mattered in 2001. He was at best mediocre in the 2003 game 5 until he completely fell apart in the 6th which is usually when hitters figure him out.

He has only been average since his Cy Young year. Think Peyton Manning but not even with good regular seasons anymore.

Zito is the last guy I want pitching in a "big" game. (For the A's)

I'm sure 29 other teams in baseball will take a guy with a 2.76 playoff ERA, including an ERA of around 2.00 in elimination games, on their team.

As for losing the 1-0 game to NY, if Jeremy Giambi slides home on Jeter's little flip play, the A's tie the game and have a runner on 2nd. Another hit and the A's take a 2-1 lead, and with the way Zito was pitching that night, 2 hits through 8 innings, the A's win that game.

The entire big 3 pitched well come playoff time, Mulder had a 2.25 ERA with the A's while Hudson was 3.44, it was the lack of bats and poor baserunning (Tejada against Boston is another example) of why they lost.

I'm sure 29 other teams in baseball will take a guy with a 2.76 playoff ERA, including an ERA of around 2.00 in elimination games, on their team.

As for losing the 1-0 game to NY, if Jeremy Giambi slides home on Jeter's little flip play, the A's tie the game and have a runner on 2nd. Another hit and the A's take a 2-1 lead, and with the way Zito was pitching that night, 2 hits through 8 innings, the A's win that game.

The entire big 3 pitched well come playoff time, Mulder had a 2.25 ERA with the A's while Hudson was 3.44, it was the lack of bats and poor baserunning (Tejada against Boston is another example) of why they lost.


LALAAAALAAAAAAAA..WHAT?...can't hear you...
(thinks happy thoughts - ice cream & ponies)
:innocent:

I'm sure 29 other teams in baseball will take a guy with a 2.76 playoff ERA, including an ERA of around 2.00 in elimination games, on their team.I'm sure there are 20+ GMs that would do just about anything to make it to the playoffs. Zito is not going to be worth the $10+mil he will get in FA, especially since he isn't even the best pitcher on his team right now.

As for losing the 1-0 game to NY, if Jeremy Giambi slides home on Jeter's little flip play, the A's tie the game and have a runner on 2nd. Another hit and the A's take a 2-1 lead, and with the way Zito was pitching that night, 2 hits through 8 innings, the A's win that game.If Zito didn't give up that HR, given the way the Yankees were hitting that night, could've, would've, should've...

The entire big 3 pitched well come playoff time, Mulder had a 2.25 ERA with the A's while Hudson was 3.44, it was the lack of bats and poor baserunning (Tejada against Boston is another example) of why they lost.Remember that game? The starting pitcher in that game kept the A's in it despite Tejada and Byrnes literally trying to give that game away with ridiculously stupid errors. The big 3 had 6 wins between them in 15 starts, and in the playoffs it doesn't matter if you win 7-6, 3-2, 1-0. ERA doesn't mean much in the postseason, because the samples of games are too small.