A new world order

VOB
09-01-2006, 09:39 AM
Time for us to face the music.

No longer can we throw together a team and expect to have the gold handed to us....basketball belongs to the world now and we have lost what was once an overwhelming superiority in what we considered our game.

I honestly believed that the 04 games were an aberation but our recent loss to Greece has shocked me to the new reality of the situation.....we are no longer the best.

Now I know how Canadians felt after the Nagano games in 98.

BuppY
09-01-2006, 10:34 AM
The world is catching up.

kov
09-01-2006, 11:54 AM
All it means is that we can't send the second team and expect to be champions. Only 4 all-stars on this team, and only 2 were actually all-star starters. That leaves an entire starting 5 of all-star-starters at home and a couple of ranks of further all-stars to boot.

Brazil cannot send their benchwarmers to the World Cup and expect to win, why should we expect to do that in basketball?

Takeo
09-01-2006, 12:43 PM
The world is catching up.

Europe, anyway.

I think the national team program was a significant step forward for American basketball, but we still don't have all of our best players competing in these tournaments. For one reason or another, international competition just isn't a priority in this country.

Potlach
09-01-2006, 12:46 PM
An all-star team isn't meant to succeed. The all-star game is just for show, and I guarantee you that if all the American all-stars would've been on team USA they wouldn't have won either. A good team has a mix of offence and defence, and there isn't any defence at the all-star game. This was definitely not USA's second team. Face it, the States may have the best players but they are far from having the best team.

kov
09-01-2006, 12:48 PM
Well it surely wasn't USA's first team either.

espo*
09-01-2006, 01:57 PM
You've got to think that if the U.S sent their best available talent and top guys in managment put a lot of work into making the right mix of that talent they would still win this thing.But the gap is definately closing,everyone should have clued into it for years now.

It's not just the U.S and everybody else is an also ran anymore.I warned states posters around here about the baseball classic last year too..........they were assuring me they were going to roll over everyone and i assured them they were gravely under-estimating the talent level other countries had to throw against them.What happens? Canada even ending up beating them and the U.S did'nt even get a sniff at the top prize.To have a chance of winning they have to get their best players together and really plan for these things.This was'nt their best team but it still had what was on paper at least much more talent then anyone else yet they still got schooled. When Greece takes you to town..........you know the good old days are gone,b-team or not.

It is indeed a new world order.Everyone is gunning for them and believe they can beat them now and are beating them.Time to get serious!!!

joe_shannon_1983*
09-01-2006, 03:15 PM
The USA possibly sent its 2nd-string team to this tournament.

However, that doesn't mean that the rest of the world isn't catching up.

Once upon a time, a 5th-string team from the USA would be hammering countries like Greece by a margin of 20+ points. Nowadays, the 2nd-string team is losing to Greece.

This shows that the rest of the world is catching up.

Coffee and 7's*
09-01-2006, 03:36 PM
USA gold medals: 3 (1954, 1986, 1994)

Yugoslavia gold medals: 5 (1970, 1978, 1990, 1998, 2002)

USA isn't and hasn't been that superior in World Championships, tbh.

espo*
09-01-2006, 04:38 PM
American fans are deluding themselves if they think the main problem is the teams they are sending over are'nt their A-squads,that will only serve to make them rest a little easier at night but won't correct the problem at all. Their players (after years of emphasizing highlight reel dunks and flash over substance) have forgotten to keep the emphasis with player development on the fundamentals and it's coming back to bite them on the arse these days. Look at what's been killing them lately,things like shooting skills for example.Their shooting percentages in this game were God awful,what did they shoot from the line in this game anyway? something like 59% i think. It's hard to win ballgames with the quality of the opposition these days when you only hit 59% from the line.Their 3 point marksmanship was just as bad and it's been like this for a few years now. You don't catch the European teams shooting 59% from the line, they are schooled in the fundamentals really well and it's paying off.

It's a new world out there,being better athletes physically isn't going to cut it all the time anymore,A-team or not.

Time to wake up :amazed:

Rabid Ranger
09-01-2006, 05:18 PM
This is a good lesson for the U.S. brass, who while it must be said wanted to win this tourney are in fact building for the 2008 Olympics. As such, there will continue to be a tweaking of the roster as we get closer to that event. A few changes, important changes will be made:

1) More quality shooters will be integrated into the fold. Melo, D-Wade, King James, and players of that ilk are great, but when they go cold, the team suffers. I envision more Michael Redd's and players of his ilk on the team.

2) A considerable change in defensive philosophy. Greece ran the pick and roll to perfection, something the U.S. seemed unwilling or unable to stop. That will have to change.

It's not like this tourney was a total loss. It was a good learning experience, and the U.S. still has a chance for a medal if they can beat Argentina. That will mean an 8-1 record which is very respectable. Hats off to Greece and the rest of the world for catching up to our game. That makes it better for the game itself.

Rabid Ranger
09-01-2006, 05:20 PM
Europe, anyway.

I think the national team program was a significant step forward for American basketball, but we still don't have all of our best players competing in these tournaments. For one reason or another, international competition just isn't a priority in this country.


It's not about the best players, it's about the right players (here's to you Herbie!) On paper, Greece should have been destroyed, but they weren't because it was a good mix of players who are very familiar with one another and are schooled in the intracacies of INTERNATIONAL basketball. Personally, I thought the U.S. had a very well put together team, but was shy on shooters, which ended up being the team's achilles heel. The U.S. also had a very young team, which was also exploited.

Rabid Ranger
09-01-2006, 05:24 PM
Time for us to face the music.

No longer can we throw together a team and expect to have the gold handed to us....basketball belongs to the world now and we have lost what was once an overwhelming superiority in what we considered our game.

I honestly believed that the 04 games were an aberation but our recent loss to Greece has shocked me to the new reality of the situation.....we are no longer the best.

Now I know how Canadians felt after the Nagano games in 98.


You're one of the few people that were shocked. Most pundits had the U.S. not winning this event. Too young and inexperienced and not enough shooters. It's not an issue of individual talent (of which the U.S. will always have the most of) but the team itself, and that continues to be a work in progress.

Small Brain Presence
09-01-2006, 06:24 PM
Spain, Italy, Argentina, Croatia, Yugoslavia, Greece, etc. all select their teams from 100% of their male population between 20 and 40. The United States selects their team from approx. 12% of their male population between 20 and 40 (with the rare token exception like Hinrich). As long as this continues, the United States is going to struggle at the international level against countries that are taking the game more and more seriously.

Troy McClure
09-02-2006, 12:31 AM
How long do these teams play together? The US team was thrown together like an Olympic team. We just assumed they'd do well.

Do the European teams do it the same way, or do they spend more time playing together before the tournament starts?

Greek_physique
09-02-2006, 09:47 AM
Do the European teams do it the same way, or do they spend more time playing together before the tournament starts?

It's about the same.

Greece/Italy/Spain/Brazil etc all have there own leagues with teams. The only difference is the club teams play a similar style of play to the pro team. So when they play on an international stage, they are better suited for it.

Just think of ice hockey. When Team Canada/USA put a team together for a tourney, it always takes them longer to gel with one and other.

joe_shannon_1983*
09-02-2006, 10:23 PM
nWo 4 Life!

kacz
09-02-2006, 11:00 PM
USA gold medals: 3 (1954, 1986, 1994)

Yugoslavia gold medals: 5 (1970, 1978, 1990, 1998, 2002)

USA isn't and hasn't been that superior in World Championships, tbh.

Exactly, the Soviets have been just as good in this tournament as the US, winning in 1967, 1974 and in 1982.

Biggsy
09-02-2006, 11:19 PM
Imjust glad to see that the U.S is dominating and that there are other teams out there that are a good competition for the States

BuppY
09-03-2006, 01:18 PM
Europe, anyway.

I think the national team program was a significant step forward for American basketball, but we still don't have all of our best players competing in these tournaments. For one reason or another, international competition just isn't a priority in this country.

Argentina.

BuppY
09-03-2006, 01:19 PM
nWo 4 Life!

oooh sweeeeeeeeeeeeeet.

Cruiser008
09-03-2006, 05:06 PM
Congrats to Spain. Destroying Greece without their heart and soul is like something you only see in sports movies (except in the movies the opponent would be USA and they would win by 1 at the buzzer).


Speak of the USA and more importantly the NBA..... boy are they absolutely PATHETIC. If you go to nba.com they've taken down all the postgame reaction and highlights from USA/Greece. I guess they were simply too embarrassed to show their 'superstars' get owned by a bunch of nobodys who have never even had a sniff of nba action, 'cause heaven forbid the league should be exposed for the flashy ego-centric specticle that it is.

flea
09-03-2006, 09:56 PM
No disrespect here, but the World is catching up to the US since quite a time and really, what happened in Japan wasnt a big surprise. Sure, the US team was the favorite to win it all, but as long as they think they will have the gold medal for granted they will fail again.
Also, as a good man said long time ago: there is no I in TEAM....and the "golden" US boys like Carmelo, Lebron and Dwayne dont know much about that....too much individuals.

As long as the european teams belongs: the real difference is that they are playing togheter much longer that the US team. The spanish team for example (well, I know them pretty good) is more or less the same since they won the Junior World Championship in Lisbon in 1999 (against the US btw) and they know each other very well.
The same happens also to Greece, Italy, Argentina, etc.
The US team is togheter since how long?? Three of four weeks???....and there was only one real "Dream Team" and that was loooong time ago in the Olympics 1992 (what a team that was!!!).

Well, for us over here its now time to enjoy it for the first time!!!

Greets

Brad*
09-04-2006, 06:49 AM
we are no longer the best.



Oh? Who is?

espo*
09-04-2006, 08:58 AM
Oh? Who is?

This year,at this particular tournament, Spain.

Troy McClure
09-04-2006, 05:36 PM
Also, as a good man said long time ago: there is no I in TEAM....and the "golden" US boys like Carmelo, Lebron and Dwayne dont know much about that....too much individuals.

Lebron got to the Conference Finals and Dwayne won it all. I think these guys know something about team play.

GKJ
09-04-2006, 06:10 PM
Spain fo' life

flea
09-04-2006, 08:32 PM
Lebron got to the Conference Finals and Dwayne won it all. I think these guys know something about team play.

Yes, thats right, but u cant compare them playing in the NBA!!! There they are the superstar of their respective teams (Dwayne shares that with Shaq in Miami) but in Team USA there are 12 superstars and they should play a little bit more like a team....well, thats at least my opinon.

IMO the key to win again in a international tournament would be something like Herb Brooks did in the Olympic games in hockey long time ago: maybe not bring in the best players, but the right ones!!

Greets

GKJ
09-05-2006, 09:47 AM
Lebron got to the Conference Finals and Dwayne won it all. I think these guys know something about team play.

Actually, LeBron went to Game 7 of the 2nd round

canucks666
09-06-2006, 04:09 PM
All it means is that we can't send the second team and expect to be champions. Only 4 all-stars on this team, and only 2 were actually all-star starters. That leaves an entire starting 5 of all-star-starters at home and a couple of ranks of further all-stars to boot.

Brazil cannot send their benchwarmers to the World Cup and expect to win, why should we expect to do that in basketball?

And while everyone in the states continues to make excuses just like this one, the US will not take over the top.


"Only" 4-all stars? Just Dwayne Wade and Lebron James - 2 of the best players on the PLANET?


How many all-star players did Greece have? In fact...how many NBAers?


Those that make excuses keep saying "Oh well if we had Shaq, Kobe, Garnett, and Duncan, we would've dominated." O RLY? I think not. Not unless they all put their egos aside and played as a TEAM.

The world is showing the Americans that team play triumphs individual skill (which this current US team had in spades, way more than anyone else). American basketball players are too selfish these days, and until they figure out how to play as a team, Greece, Spain, Lithuania (remember Lithuania came within one shot of beating the US even in 2002) will all run circles around the yanks.

Ar-too
09-06-2006, 04:39 PM
And while everyone in the states continues to make excuses just like this one, the US will not take over the top.


"Only" 4-all stars? Just Dwayne Wade and Lebron James - 2 of the best players on the PLANET?


How many all-star players did Greece have? In fact...how many NBAers?


Those that make excuses keep saying "Oh well if we had Shaq, Kobe, Garnett, and Duncan, we would've dominated." O RLY? I think not. Not unless they all put their egos aside and played as a TEAM.

The world is showing the Americans that team play triumphs individual skill (which this current US team had in spades, way more than anyone else). American basketball players are too selfish these days, and until they figure out how to play as a team, Greece, Spain, Lithuania (remember Lithuania came within one shot of beating the US even in 2002) will all run circles around the yanks.
QFT

Dolemite
09-07-2006, 04:31 AM
Time for us to face the music.

No longer can we throw together a team and expect to have the gold handed to us....basketball belongs to the world now and we have lost what was once an overwhelming superiority in what we considered our game.

I honestly believed that the 04 games were an aberation but our recent loss to Greece has shocked me to the new reality of the situation.....we are no longer the best.

Now I know how Canadians felt after the Nagano games in 98.

No, the world knows how to negate the US 'drive the lane and dunk' one dimensional offense. If they had outside shooting in the World Champ. they might have been battling for a gold.

Hellström
09-07-2006, 05:51 AM
No, the world knows how to negate the US 'drive the lane and dunk' one dimensional offense. If they had outside shooting in the World Champ. they might have been battling for a gold.

Yup - the US team just couldn´t handle the zone defense numerous times. Overall the tight zone isn´t helping them either.

Rabid Ranger
09-07-2006, 05:02 PM
And while everyone in the states continues to make excuses just like this one, the US will not take over the top.


"Only" 4-all stars? Just Dwayne Wade and Lebron James - 2 of the best players on the PLANET?


How many all-star players did Greece have? In fact...how many NBAers?


Those that make excuses keep saying "Oh well if we had Shaq, Kobe, Garnett, and Duncan, we would've dominated." O RLY? I think not. Not unless they all put their egos aside and played as a TEAM.

The world is showing the Americans that team play triumphs individual skill (which this current US team had in spades, way more than anyone else). American basketball players are too selfish these days, and until they figure out how to play as a team, Greece, Spain, Lithuania (remember Lithuania came within one shot of beating the US even in 2002) will all run circles around the yanks.


Run circles? Greece beat the U.S. fair and square in this tourney, but it wasn't a dominating win. As for Lithuania, did you notice the job the U.S. did on the them in the exhibition game they played?

The Bob Cole
09-09-2006, 07:50 PM
I think what it show cased was the lack of defense in the NBA, any of those typical drive to lane moves would have worked in the NBA and often fouls would have bailed them out, however when playing against world teams where it is understood and taught that defense wins ball games, silly moves cutting to the lane and creating trouble for yourself won't work. What is needed is quick ball movement and have players that can hit your jump shots. The European system has been able to adapt to both of those and it isn't just gaurds that learn, we can see that in players like Gasol, Nowitzki and Stojakovic -where nearly 7 footers can hit down their three pointers.

took420s
09-09-2006, 11:45 PM
Wade, Melo, and Lebronze play no defense.

Don't worry fellow Americans, in 2008 Kobe will be there and everyone can sit back and watch us crush everyone.

Before the Kobe haters pile on...just remember this, the dude made 1st team all defense while still leading the league in scoring :bow:

He won't need to carry Team USA in scoring (unless everyone else chokes which is quite possible) so he will be able to focus on shutting down anyone who gets hot on the other team.

Even Dirk Nowitzki said Kobe would have been the difference for Team USA and he should know, the man watched Kobe light his team up for 62 pts in only 3 quarters.

Kobe will save Team USA...book it :yo:

took420s
09-09-2006, 11:49 PM
I think what it show cased was the lack of defense in the NBA, any of those typical drive to lane moves would have worked in the NBA and often fouls would have bailed them out, however when playing against world teams where it is understood and taught that defense wins ball games, silly moves cutting to the lane and creating trouble for yourself won't work. What is needed is quick ball movement and have players that can hit your jump shots. The European system has been able to adapt to both of those and it isn't just gaurds that learn, we can see that in players like Gasol, Nowitzki and Stojakovic -where nearly 7 footers can hit down their three pointers.

Definitely...Wade can't pull that drive to lane, throw something up, and get the foul crap in international ball.

The play is much more physical and the calls that some of these guys live on are not called there.