Gratton to Ottawa?

Volchenkov
11-16-2003, 04:24 PM
I've heard rumours that phoenix is looking to dump Graton's salary and I was wondering what you guys think the asking price would be. I'm not sure if Petr Shastlivy would interest you guys as he has been rather unproductive this season, but he has upside and is rather cheap.

PhoPhan
11-16-2003, 05:53 PM
I've heard rumours that phoenix is looking to dump Graton's salary and I was wondering what you guys think the asking price would be. I'm not sure if Petr Shastlivy would interest you guys as he has been rather unproductive this season, but he has upside and is rather cheap.

Schastlivy won't do it. The Coyotes would probably be most interested in either a scorer, a prospect, or Bonk, as they have been rumored to be pursuing him for a few years now, although Bonk for Gratton would be dumb.

CoyoteBaloney
11-16-2003, 07:50 PM
I've heard rumours that phoenix is looking to dump Graton's salary and I was wondering what you guys think the asking price would be. I'm not sure if Petr Shastlivy would interest you guys as he has been rather unproductive this season, but he has upside and is rather cheap.
Interesting ... I haven't heard any such rumour. Although I won't shrugg off such a rumour so easily. The Coyotes are deep at center (Langkow, Gratton, Hrdina, Sillinger and Kolanos) and with Cleary stepping up and playing his way into the line-up it does give them some room to deal. Gratton makes $2.2 million and is about the 5th highest paid skater on the team, but his salary would not be a dump. Gratton has been playing well in the face-off circle and defensively. Gratton has also tried to hustle his way up the ice and be included in the offense. For Phoenix to trade their best face-off man the offer would have to be good for them to consider such a trade -- especially with the length of the Mike Johnson injury.

eye
11-17-2003, 06:01 AM
Interesting ... I haven't heard any such rumour. Although I won't shrugg off such a rumour so easily. The Coyotes are deep at center (Langkow, Gratton, Hrdina, Sillinger and Kolanos) and with Cleary stepping up and playing his way into the line-up it does give them some room to deal. Gratton makes $2.2 million and is about the 5th highest paid skater on the team, but his salary would not be a dump. Gratton has been playing well in the face-off circle and defensively. Gratton has also tried to hustle his way up the ice and be included in the offense. For Phoenix to trade their best face-off man the offer would have to be good for them to consider such a trade -- especially with the length of the Mike Johnson injury.

Gratton - just over 51% faceoffs won. $2.2 million seems like a steep price to pay to win 1% more than you lose, 2 goals, 3 assists and minus 4, hardly numbers to warrant this kind of money when a Jeff Taffe could likely do better for less money.

Phoenix Centers - won 495 draws and lost 579 draws

Lots of off-season talk about how this team's strength in the circle this year would translate into wins. How many times do I have to tell you it's not just the Center that wins or loses draws? It's more of a team stat than a lot of people realize and all 5 players have to work hard, do their own jobs better than the opposition players in order to win draws. And no CT, I still havn't watched any games but I like to read this forum from time to time.

Volchenkov
11-17-2003, 06:47 AM
Gratton - just over 51% faceoffs won. $2.2 million seems like a steep price to pay to win 1% more than you lose, 2 goals, 3 assists and minus 4, hardly numbers to warrant this kind of money when a Jeff Taffe could likely do better for less money.

Phoenix Centers - won 495 draws and lost 579 draws

Lots of off-season talk about how this team's strength in the circle this year would translate into wins. How many times do I have to tell you it's not just the Center that wins or loses draws? It's more of a team stat than a lot of people realize and all 5 players have to work hard, do their own jobs better than the opposition players in order to win draws. And no CT, I still havn't watched any games but I like to read this forum from time to time.

Thanks for the feedback.

CT: Sillinger is your best face-off man.

PhoPhan: As you said Bonk for Gratton is stupid. Any key roster player is out of the question. A couple of ideas could be:

Shastlivy (could be a scorer if he stays healthy) + Laich/Platil/Bochenski

or

Kaigorodov/Eaves/Mirnov (i.e any prospect other than Emery and Vermette).

or Todd White straight up for Gratton (assuming Phoenix wants to cut salary).


edit: One more question for you guys - Can Gratton play LW?

CoyoteBaloney
11-17-2003, 10:29 AM
Gratton - just over 51% faceoffs won. $2.2 million seems like a steep price to pay to win 1% more than you lose, 2 goals, 3 assists and minus 4, hardly numbers to warrant this kind of money when a Jeff Taffe could likely do better for less money.

Phoenix Centers - won 495 draws and lost 579 draws

Lots of off-season talk about how this team's strength in the circle this year would translate into wins. How many times do I have to tell you it's not just the Center that wins or loses draws? It's more of a team stat than a lot of people realize and all 5 players have to work hard, do their own jobs better than the opposition players in order to win draws. And no CT, I still havn't watched any games but I like to read this forum from time to time.
You might like the read of this forum but you were the one who acted like a drama queen and made such a big stink about you no longer being an NHL fan but an NCAA fan. Have you even posted in the NCAA forum yet?

Take Gratton out of the Phx line-up -- remove his face-off stats -- and what do you get? Check out the centers in the Western Conference .. and especially in the Pacific Division and you will understand why Gratton is important to this team.

I agree that Taffe is ready to play center or at least LW in the NHL, but I still don't think the Coyotes want any of their prospects stuck on the team's roster with the league not knowing if they will be playing their season next year. In other words, they want to keep Taffe and all the others in the Coyotes' system with Coyotes coaches teaching them. So why recall Taffe and having him stuck on the NHL roster and not playing next year. If the CBA gets hammered out and the NHL will play next year you will see the Coyotes make a number of trades to get some of their ready-to-play prospects up here.
Thanks for the feedback.

CT: Sillinger is your best face-off man.
Nope. Gratton is the center who is in the circle when the Coyotes want to win a crucial face-off.

edit: One more question for you guys - Can Gratton play LW?
Yep.

DesertDawg
11-17-2003, 10:57 AM
I don't believe they are trying to dump Gratton. The Coyote's will look to raise payroll after they move into the new building, as long as the franchise sees the bargining agreement making steps to be rectify before the start of next season...
If anybody is being shopped around it would be Savage, but the Coyote's aren't deep at LW...hmm, a trade for Parrish would sound interesting... if the Coyote's could find another team to take 1 of the goalies and use that player to sweeten the pot for Parrish... I can't see dumping a contract but I can see upgrading a position and deal with having 3 goalies on the roster...

_Del_
11-17-2003, 12:26 PM
Thanks for the feedback.

CT: Sillinger is your best face-off man.

PhoPhan: As you said Bonk for Gratton is stupid. Any key roster player is out of the question. A couple of ideas could be:

Shastlivy (could be a scorer if he stays healthy) + Laich/Platil/Bochenski

or

Kaigorodov/Eaves/Mirnov (i.e any prospect other than Emery and Vermette).

or Todd White straight up for Gratton (assuming Phoenix wants to cut salary).


edit: One more question for you guys - Can Gratton play LW?

My attempt:

Eager, Gratton for Schastlivy and White and a pick.

I'm not sold on Schastlivy, but the potential is definately there. White is a solid center when healthy. Gratton for White is roughly a wash, though I think Gratton carries more value even factoring in salary. Schastlivy has more upside than Eager and is closer to contributing to the pro's (though he isn't a sure thing). Ottawa gets size in Gratton (who, can in fact play lw) and a former first rounder in Eager, with relatively low upside, but low risk (and I seem to remember that Ottawa was interested in Eager at the draft).
Todd White is certainly a capable center, though without Gratton's size, and Schastlivy is a young lw with a low salary capable of becoming a scoring threat (think Nagy)
Bottom line Phoenix losses salary while not getting any older and doesn't sacrifice a great deal in on ice performance. I think it's a win-win...

Just an idea, feel free to tell me how stupid I am... ;)

_Del_
11-17-2003, 12:32 PM
I don't believe they are trying to dump Gratton. The Coyote's will look to raise payroll after they move into the new building, as long as the franchise sees the bargining agreement making steps to be rectify before the start of next season...
If anybody is being shopped around it would be Savage, but the Coyote's aren't deep at LW...hmm, a trade for Parrish would sound interesting... if the Coyote's could find another team to take 1 of the goalies and use that player to sweeten the pot for Parrish... I can't see dumping a contract but I can see upgrading a position and deal with having 3 goalies on the roster...

I don't think they're looking to dump Gratton either, but if a good deal comes along, they jump on it if it means losing salary and not getting significantly older.
I don't think they'll add any payrole until the CBA is hammered out. They'll need alot of concerts and monster truck rallies to pay the bills for the otherwise unused arena next year. The Coyotes would dump Savage if it could find a team to take him. Noone wants him, or he'd be in another jersey by now. Parrish would be interesting, but I doubt we have the assets to make anything but a lateral move at this point, as NY would likely want someone capable of producing now with fair upside and lower salary. Sounds much like what PHX would want for Gratton.
I don't know what kind of deal you're expecting for one of the goalies, but if they dealt Burke (which is the only way to expect anything of quality back) adding Parrish would not help us much.

PhoPhan
11-17-2003, 12:37 PM
Am I the only one who really does not want Mark Parrish?

XX
11-17-2003, 01:09 PM
Gratton is a hard worker on and off the ice, he also sticks up for teamates. His performance has sagged, but everytime he lines up he wins the crucial faceoff.

Cleary shouldnt be in the lineup, hes a waste with Langkow and Doan, unless I missed something last night....

_Del_
11-17-2003, 02:03 PM
Gratton is a hard worker on and off the ice, he also sticks up for teamates. His performance has sagged, but everytime he lines up he wins the crucial faceoff.

Cleary shouldnt be in the lineup, hes a waste with Langkow and Doan, unless I missed something last night....

Didn't see Sunday's game, but I thought he's played pretty well in the other games I saw... especially at 500k for the year...

Volchenkov
11-17-2003, 06:43 PM
My attempt:

Eager, Gratton for Schastlivy and White and a pick.

I'm not sold on Schastlivy, but the potential is definately there. White is a solid center when healthy. Gratton for White is roughly a wash, though I think Gratton carries more value even factoring in salary. Schastlivy has more upside than Eager and is closer to contributing to the pro's (though he isn't a sure thing). Ottawa gets size in Gratton (who, can in fact play lw) and a former first rounder in Eager, with relatively low upside, but low risk (and I seem to remember that Ottawa was interested in Eager at the draft).
Todd White is certainly a capable center, though without Gratton's size, and Schastlivy is a young lw with a low salary capable of becoming a scoring threat (think Nagy)
Bottom line Phoenix losses salary while not getting any older and doesn't sacrifice a great deal in on ice performance. I think it's a win-win...

Just an idea, feel free to tell me how stupid I am... ;)

I personally would do the deal, though I don't think so highly of Ben Eager. I don't know how many sens fans would agree, but IMO what we'd essentially be doing would be changing last year's final playoff roster, with Gratton instead of White and Vermette instead of Van Allen. Ben Eager is an Ottawa native, which replaces White as an Ottawa native. I don't think Todd White would be too happy with the deal, but from a pure hockey standpoint, I would do the deal and hope that Shastlivy pans out.

Guest
11-18-2003, 07:35 AM
I find it odd as Gratton's name is coming up more and more around the boards. It seems despite his average offensive numbers, some people are crediting him with some value concerning intangibles. Nice to see, but he's still widely considered a dump for us if we move him, which doesn't make much sense right now.

The team only signed him to a 1 year deal I believe due to the CBA expiration, and he is definitely moveable. I'm just not sold that he has run his course in Phoenix just yet as he hasn't hurt us yet.

CoyoteBaloney
11-18-2003, 07:59 AM
I find it odd as Gratton's name is coming up more and more around the boards. It seems despite his average offensive numbers, some people are crediting him with some value concerning intangibles. Nice to see, but he's still widely considered a dump for us if we move him, which doesn't make much sense right now.

The team only signed him to a 1 year deal I believe due to the CBA expiration, and he is definitely moveable. I'm just not sold that he has run his course in Phoenix just yet as he hasn't hurt us yet.
I think thats because the Coyotes are still looking to unload $2 million more off their payroll and with Taffe, Sillinger, Kolanos, Langkow and Hrdina the team can afford to trade a center.

Waldo
11-18-2003, 09:14 AM
The Coyotes are using all of their depth and will need these players for the balance of the season. I don't see Gratton as being expendable. It's still a long season ahead.

Gwyddbwyll
11-18-2003, 12:07 PM
eye - careerwise, Gratton is in the top 30 in the NHL in faceoff win pct.. actually top 20 IIRC. Nuff said.

roadrunner
11-18-2003, 01:36 PM
eye - careerwise, Gratton is in the top 30 in the NHL in faceoff win pct.. actually top 20 IIRC. Nuff said.

Right. And he has also shown a suprising amount of toughness. In my mind, team toughness was a huge concern with the departures of May and Simpson. I like how Gratts showed McDonnel of Columbus how Burke's crease is not his playground, and saved Burke's fists for goaltending purposes. A few more points from Chris would be nice, but he's a keeper IMHO.

Av-merican
11-18-2003, 01:46 PM
I've heard rumours that phoenix is looking to dump Graton's salary and I was wondering what you guys think the asking price would be. I'm not sure if Petr Shastlivy would interest you guys as he has been rather unproductive this season, but he has upside and is rather cheap.

Uh, no. The Sens already have an underachieving big center who's good at faceoffs. His name's Bryan Smolinski.

Waldo
11-18-2003, 02:42 PM
Further to .....

The Coyotes are using all of their depth and will need these players for the balance of the season. I don't see Gratton as being expendable. It's still a long season ahead.

Ever since the trade we've been hearing from people everywhere who are not Gratton fans and have been telling us about how much fo an underachieving .... useless ..... whatever .... well it turned out not to be true. He has played very well for the Coyotes. He's been playing well defensively, takes important faceoffs, sticks up for his teammates, and plays physical hockey. The Coyotes are getting more from him than they gave up for Briere. At this time, he can't be spared and the Coyotes are overcoming injuries quite well. This is a resillient hockey team and Gratton has been a very good contributor to this team. And the next game is against St. Louis and will be a scrappy physical game where Gratton has been playing his best.

hbk
11-18-2003, 03:34 PM
Phoenix made a big stink last year on how the lack of size at center hurt their ability to compete. They gave up skill in Briere to acquire that size in a deal a number of Sabre fans were crying about when it went down. When Briere started scoring goals in meaningless games they changed their tune considerably to the point where it seems everyone is calling us idiots for trading Briere (how soon they forget that they could have had him for nothing off the waiver wire a year and a half prior).

If Phoenix is looking to move a center it is largely due to their desire to meet their budget. No shock there. One of Gratton or Sillinger will go. Will it be now or at the deadline. Garrioch is looking at a need of the Sens and the indication is that Phoenix is interested in both Leschescyn (easy for you to spell) and Bonk (not gonna happen straight up from Ottawa's side). He's connecting the dots and stirring the pot like he normally does.

In terms of Gratton though, I think he's meeting or exceeding expectations as a Coyote. My prefence would be to hold onto him but this isn't a hockey decision. Should be interesting.

PhoPhan
11-18-2003, 04:21 PM
Why would the Coyotes have interest in Leschyshyn? (take that hbk)

hbk
11-18-2003, 04:31 PM
Why would the Coyotes have interest in Leschyshyn? (take that hbk)


maybe looking for another depth defenseman. to be honest i don't know. i can't see him costing much in terms of assets going back the other way. might even give us a draft pick to take him off their hands and pick up the contract.

Greg
11-18-2003, 04:48 PM
maybe looking for another depth defenseman. to be honest i don't know. i can't see him costing much in terms of assets going back the other way. might even give us a draft pick to take him off their hands and pick up the contract.
Could it be related to the team's unhappiness concerning Brad Ference? I don't know, just grasping for something there.

Volchenkov
11-18-2003, 06:26 PM
Uh, no. The Sens already have an underachieving big center who's good at faceoffs. His name's Bryan Smolinski.

smoke is by no means a face-off specialist - he struggles to get 50%.

Volchenkov
11-18-2003, 06:28 PM
Why would the Coyotes have interest in Leschyshyn? (take that hbk)

Veteran leadership? :dunno:

hbk
11-18-2003, 06:43 PM
Could it be related to the team's unhappiness concerning Brad Ference? I don't know, just grasping for something there.


my sports forecaster indicates Leschescyn (I hate this name that alone is reason enough not to deal for him) makes $2 million. Can't see how this acquisition would make sense given our budgetary constraints. Me think Garrioch is full of it.

Volchenkov
11-18-2003, 07:11 PM
my sports forecaster indicates Leschescyn (I hate this name that alone is reason enough not to deal for him) makes $2 million. Can't see how this acquisition would make sense given our budgetary constraints. Me think Garrioch is full of it.

I'd have to agree with you there. I can see no reason that the 'yotes would want Leschyshyn.

CoyoteBaloney
11-18-2003, 08:12 PM
The Coyotes won't trade Gratton for just any defensive depth. It would have to be a dman that fits into the 2nd pairing.

roadrunner said it well when about Gratton ... good post.

Master T
11-19-2003, 09:26 AM
But the coyotes have wanted Bonk for a while, and with the emergence of Spezza, and the budget constraints (Bonk makes 3.5) it would be a solid trade if the Coyotes threw in a 3rd pick.

YotesFan
11-19-2003, 11:28 AM
But the coyotes have wanted Bonk for a while, and with the emergence of Spezza, and the budget constraints (Bonk makes 3.5) it would be a solid trade if the Coyotes threw in a 3rd pick.

Do you think the sens would do that deal? If they would we should do it in a second. Maybe throw in savage, and have them add in schvestlivy.

Guest
11-19-2003, 12:13 PM
Why would the Sens do that deal? That'd be as poor asset management as we've done at times, and I think Muckler is smarter than that. If we did Gratton for Bonk, we'd have to include something else they severely need. Nash, Gratton and a pick for Bonk...even then we probably would be underpaying.

PhoPhan
11-19-2003, 12:21 PM
Why would the Sens do that deal? That'd be as poor asset management as we've done at times, and I think Muckler is smarter than that. If we did Gratton for Bonk, we'd have to include something else they severely need. Nash, Gratton and a pick for Bonk...even then we probably would be underpaying.


Maybe I am underrating Bonk, but I think that'd be a severe overpayment for someone who would do little more than Gratton.

Volchenkov
11-19-2003, 12:31 PM
Maybe I am underrating Bonk, but I think that'd be a severe overpayment for someone who would do little more than Gratton.

Bonk has scored 20 goals consistently for a few years now and is a dominant defensive force. His value as compared to Chris Gratton is quite good. IF they were to trade Radek Bonk (I think there is maybe a 5% chance they will) it would probably be a deal including Mara and Gratton, with Phoenix having to take Curtis L (sens benefit from losing his salary). There is a very small chance of this occuring, but in my mind that would be the type of deal the sens would want.

Guest
11-19-2003, 12:33 PM
Maybe I am underrating Bonk, but I think that'd be a severe overpayment for someone who would do little more than Gratton.

For one, Bonk would be our #1 center likely.

Besides the 0.80 points per game he's had the past 4 seasons, typically 64 points a year. He's had a 70 point year already, is good defensively.

I'd do that deal in a heartbeat if we could, but I am a huge fan of Bonk. We might lose some of the faceoff %, just because Gratton is among the better drawmen, but Bonk would greatly improve our offensive side of the puck and be a lot like Langkow I might say.

Gwyddbwyll
11-19-2003, 01:06 PM
Bonk would be a really good player to have. Rather than being a bit better than Gratton he's more like a little better than Langkow like Go said. Gratton, Nash and a pick would be a great deal for us to make and I think its much more realistic than asking for Mara(!!) on top of Gratton. Bonk isnt that good to warrant throwing in one of the best young defensemen around (and one of the cheapest at just $1m). I'd want Havlat not Bonk for that price.

Volchenkov
11-19-2003, 05:26 PM
Bonk would be a really good player to have. Rather than being a bit better than Gratton he's more like a little better than Langkow like Go said. Gratton, Nash and a pick would be a great deal for us to make and I think its much more realistic than asking for Mara(!!) on top of Gratton. Bonk isnt that good to warrant throwing in one of the best young defensemen around (and one of the cheapest at just $1m). I'd want Havlat not Bonk for that price.

Bonk is the #1 centre on the best team in hockey. To tell you the truth, IMO Bonk is more integral to the team than Havlat is at this point in their careers.

Say Bonk=Doan (approx.)
and
Volchenkov=Mara (or substitute Rachunek if you want).

Would you consider a Doan for Volchenkov deal fair?

Ozy_Flame
11-20-2003, 12:01 AM
Would you consider a Doan for Volchenkov deal fair?

No. Phoenix gets shafted. Volchy isn't that valuable (yet).

Big pass.

Gwyddbwyll
11-20-2003, 12:29 AM
Only Lidstrom and A.Markov scored more even strength goals last year than Mara (and Markov only did it by virtue of empty netters). Rachunek and Volchenkov are great prospects but I dont think they are at Mara's current level. Mara is more of a Brewer (minus the big salary) than players who havent even had a full season.

Bonk may play for the best team in hockey but that means very little.. it doesnt make him the best center in all the NHL. He probably is more integral than Havlat but Havlat is worth considerably more.

I have said for a while I think Nagy and Mara are the two most valuable Coyotes, partly due to their $1m contracts which are comparatively tiny. Doan may be back up there with his good form so far but his contract dwarfs theirs. My point anyway was that you tossed Mara's name in like a throw-in when he is probably the most valuable asset we have along with Nagy.. I am not even sure I would want to trade him straight up for Bonk, especially considering our surfeit of centers and lack of defensemen.

Like PhoPhan has said.. guys like Nagy, Doan, Mara, Havlat and Spezza dont get traded.. its better not to bring their names in.