Jay McKee

I was browsing the sabres forum and came across a thread about the leafs looking at acquiring Jay McKee. The consensus was they would not deal him unless a d'man came back. I proposed Rachunek for McKee, not too many responded yet, but one guy liked it.

I really like McKee, he is a good physical d'man who would fit in our top 4 nicely. Now I'm in no way down on Rachunek but Redden, Chara, Phillips and likely Volchenkov would not be moved. Curtis L., Pothier, and Hnidy don't really have much trade value, this leave Rachunek.

Plus it would be nice to keep him away from the leafs. And if we were to shake-up our lineup this would not really hurt us. We'd most likely have to add something else though, I would think the Mckee currently has more value.

Opinions??

I was browsing the sabres forum and came across a thread about the leafs looking at acquiring Jay McKee. The consensus was they would not deal him unless a d'man came back. I proposed Rachunek for McKee, not too many responded yet, but one guy liked it.

I really like McKee, he is a good physical d'man who would fit in our top 4 nicely. Now I'm in no way down on Rachunek but Redden, Chara, Phillips and likely Volchenkov would not be moved. Curtis L., Pothier, and Hnidy don't really have much trade value, this leave Rachunek.

Plus it would be nice to keep him away from the leafs. And if we were to shake-up our lineup this would not really hurt us. We'd most likely have to add something else though, I would think the Mckee currently has more value.

Opinions??

Rachunek is a complete overpayment for McKee. He's a couple of years older than Karel. Both this year and last year, he didn't crack the top 4 in Buffalo for minutes played per game among defencemen, a team that isn't known for it's blueline depth. None of this is a good sign for McKee. At most, he's a solid bottom pairing guy for a team like Ottawa.

Rachunek's been able to handle top 4 minutues for Ottawa,

Rachunek is a complete overpayment for McKee. He's a couple of years older than Karel. Both this year and last year, he didn't crack the top 4 in Buffalo for minutes played per game among defencemen, a team that isn't known for it's blueline depth. None of this is a good sign for McKee. At most, he's a solid bottom pairing guy for a team like Ottawa.

Rachunek's been able to handle top 4 minutues for Ottawa,

Are you kidding? He has had problems with Lindy over the years and that is the only reason his minutes are affected. Do you really pay attention to him when he is on the ice or do you just look at stats? There is a reason he had an invitation to the pre-olympic camp for Canada. Sometimes we have to look at things with out our homer glasses on. Now I see how some people would take Rachunek over McKee and vice versa, but saying Rachunek is an overpayment is just plain ludicrous. All of our players aren't all world.

Rachunek IS an overpayment. I wouldn't do that deal.

Mckee would look alot better beside Redden then he does in Buffalo. The team a player plays for has to come into the picture.

However, I'm 0 for 2 on this one, :dunno: fair enough. I guess I must over value Jay Mckee.

Are you kidding? He has had problems with Lindy over the years and that is the only reason his minutes are affected. Do you really pay attention to him when he is on the ice or do you just look at stats? There is a reason he had an invitation to the pre-olympic camp for Canada. Sometimes we have to look at things with out our homer glasses on. Now I see how some people would take Rachunek over McKee and vice versa, but saying Rachunek is an overpayment is just plain ludicrous. All of our players aren't all world.

I'll admit, I don't watch much of Jay McKee. Of the Buffalo games I watch (which admitted, isn't too many, because, well, they're Buffalo), he's not usually the guy I'm going to notice out there, so yes, I was going a lot off of statistics. I didn't bother to look at points, as that's not his job, but the minutes he plays is quite relevant.

I don't know his full history with his coach, so that obviously seems to be a factor, but it begs the question as to why he seems to be in the doghouse over there. Being outside the top 4 in d-man on the Sabres is definitely a red flag, regardless of the reason.

As for the style he plays, I don't think we need another stay at home defencemen in our top 4. Phillips and Chara are there for that role. Chara's been trying to become more of a two-way defencemen in my mind. I would rather see Chara go back to the physical style of play that he showed in his first year here (which he's starting to get back to), and sacrifice those points.

I'll admit, I don't watch much of Jay McKee. Of the Buffalo games I watch (which admitted, isn't too many, because, well, they're Buffalo), he's not usually the guy I'm going to notice out there, so yes, I was going a lot off of statistics. I didn't bother to look at points, as that's not his job, but the minutes he plays is quite relevant.

I don't know his full history with his coach, so that obviously seems to be a factor, but it begs the question as to why he seems to be in the doghouse over there. Being outside the top 4 in d-man on the Sabres is definitely a red flag, regardless of the reason.

As for the style he plays, I don't think we need another stay at home defencemen in our top 4. Phillips and Chara are there for that role. Chara's been trying to become more of a two-way defencemen in my mind. I would rather see Chara go back to the physical style of play that he showed in his first year here (which he's starting to get back to), and sacrifice those points.

All good points I was just proposing this for a shake-up. And I'm right with you on the Chara going back to the physical style.

I'd love to get McKee, but not at the expense of Rachunek. Maybe it's just me, but if we could pick up McKee for something of lesser value, without giving up one of our top 5 d-men, I'd love it. I like the guy, but at this point, he's inferior to all of our top 4, and Volchenkov's upside makes a deal around those two, a question mark.

I would be interested, just not at the expense of Rachunek, or any of our top 5 d-men for that matter. A top 6 of Redden, Rachunek, Phillips, Chara, McKee and Volchenkov would IMO be kind of like the Dallas Mavericks starting 5 this year: too good to be true. The ability to roll three pairings would be invaluable, and McKee would give us a very good shut-down type of guy. I don't know how I'd do the pairings, but for some reason, McKee and Phillips would look great together in my eyes.

This is a stupid trade. Rachunek clearly hasn't hit his peak as an NHLer, while (unless some Sabre fans can prove otherwise) McKee is not going to get better as an NHLer. The 2 of them are pretty much equal overall right now IMO, but with more upside in Rachunek, in the shorterm, it doesn't make us better and in the longrun, makes us weaker!!!

This is a stupid trade. Rachunek clearly hasn't hit his peak as an NHLer, while (unless some Sabre fans can prove otherwise) McKee is not going to get better as an NHLer. The 2 of them are pretty much equal overall right now IMO, but with more upside in Rachunek, in the shorterm, it doesn't make us better and in the longrun, makes us weaker!!!

This may be true, but if Rachunek clearly has not hit his peak how can you say Mckee has? They are both relatively young and it takes an ice age for yound d'men to develop. The thought was proposed as "shakeup" move, but it does not matter because it won't be necessary the boys are going to come through tonight and run off about a 6 game win streak after that.

Rachunek is a complete overpayment for McKee. He's a couple of years older than Karel. Both this year and last year, he didn't crack the top 4 in Buffalo for minutes played per game among defencemen, a team that isn't known for it's blueline depth. None of this is a good sign for McKee. At most, he's a solid bottom pairing guy for a team like Ottawa.

Rachunek's been able to handle top 4 minutues for Ottawa,

Care to elaborate? Or are you mistaking McKee for someone else?

McKee's ice time for the last two seasons:

02-03 (http://www.nhl.com/nhlstats/stats?service=direct&context=Stats/changeSortColumnAction&fetchKey=20032BUFDAD&sort=avgTOIPerGame&viewName=timeOnIce) and 01-02 (http://www.nhl.com/nhlstats/stats?service=direct&context=Stats/changeSortColumnAction&fetchKey=20022BUFDAD&sort=avgTOIPerGame&viewName=timeOnIce)
That alone doesn't bear out the idea that he's not part of the Sabres top 4, which beleive me he has been for some time, both when paired with Warrener on the second unit and since. He gets little PP time, since his offensive game from junior never translated to NHL productivity---he doesn't have much flair on the puck, and plays a stay-at-home style better suited to PK and straight defensive assignments. But he is most certainly in and has been part of their top 4.

That aside, I think Muckler could do better than giving up Rachunek to a division rival. I love Rachunek's overall, well-rounded game, but even from my most homeristic stance I can't see something like that happening. :D

I'm all for improving the defense but Rachunek is an integral part of it right now. I wouldn't want to deal him just yet.

Care to elaborate? Or are you mistaking McKee for someone else?


Well, I admitted in my other post that I was going heavily on statistics to make my evaluation. From those stats, McKee is not in the top 5 in minutes played per game for 03-04 so far, nor is he for 02-03. To me, the biggest value a defensive defencemen has for his team is eating up crucial minutes on the blueline, and McKee doesn't seem to be doing enough of it. From the stats sheet, it would appear Talinder has overtaken him on the top 4. I know that stats don't tell the whole story, but it doesn't make a good case for him. Even without PP time, a defencemen like him should be logging more minutes.

Like I said, I don't watch too many Buffalo games, and when I do, a defensive defencemen is usually not what is going to catch my eye when I do. Why isn't McKee getting more ice-time? He seems to have a solid endorsement by you and Sensfan18, so I'm just wondering why his ice time isn't being bumped up.