Changes?

Well, I think losing 6-2 to the Rangers is a pretty low point for this team. They are capable of much better, and they're not getting the job done.

I think Muckler has said, in so many words, that change is coming. The question is, how severe these changes are going to be.

He said that the coach is safe, which doesn't mean anything in today's NHL, but I think it's an accurate statement for now. I don't see Jacques being fired until after some player moves are made, and have a chance to have an effect.

I think we'll see one or two major trades happen. The following players I think are safe:
Hossa: Elite player who is playing well. There's no need to go down this route
Redden: Our #1 D-man. It's too risky to move a player of this calibre at this point
Phillips: Has been playing well. Would send the wrong message
Spezza: Having some troubles, but would be sent to the minors before for an extended period of time before he ever got traded
Chara: Is having good and bad days, but I still don't think we can sustain his loss. With PHillips playing well though, Muckler may be tempted if something was offered, but still unlikely.
Fisher: Injured, but plays a valuable role to this team, and with the poor play of the team, it's not hard to attribute some of it to his absence.

Guys that are unlikely to be traded, but you never know. Muckler wouldn't necessarily offer these guys, but he wouldn't hang up the phone either.
Alfie: Captain has been playing well. There's little reason to move him based on his play, but given that we may lose him at the end of the season, he's a guy that if moved would result in a "shake-up" to the team, without costing us much in the long term (if we assume he wouldn't be re-signed)
Havlat: Talented and has immense upside. Has played some good games, and a lot of his struggles are due to missing camp, but even still, he carries a lot of value, and may be needed to land someone big.
Volchenkov: He's going to be a great player, but he could get moved if Muckler wants to make a big move without disturbing our top 4. I really doubt that this will happen though.
Lalime: Goal has definitely been a weakspot, but there's not many options out there better than Lalime. He just needs to get back on his game. Muckler may move him if there's a better option that becomes available (doubtful)
Smolinkski: Still too early to trade him, but he isn't making a great case for himself, IMO.
Others in this category:
Neil, Schaefer, Varada: All guys who are playing well, but they are support players, and may be moved in part of a larger trade to get an impact player.

Trade bait guys. These guys won't necessarily be given away, but I think Muckler could bring any of these guys into negotiations if he's talking to other GMs.
Bonk: Mentioned by Pierre McGuire. Has put up points, but only on the PP. His absence would be missed, but he's a guy who, if traded, would send a message to the rest of the team. Also carries a lot of trade value, and could land someone significant in return.
Schastlivy: Struggling, but doesn't carry much in trade value. Could be packaged, but don't expect teams to be lining up for him
White: Also struggling, but doesn't carry much value either
Rachunek: Most expendable off of our blueline. Hasn't played that poorly, but could be victim of circumstance.
Van Allen, Leschyshn: If someone wants them, they can have them, likely
Hnidy, Pothier Bit pieces that could be included in trade


I'm really uncertain as to what our team will look like in a couple of weeks. I think Muckler has hit his breaking point though, and something will be done. His moves, for the most part of have been good (Varada and Schaefer were great, Smolinski is still a little questionable), but he now faces a big challenge. Teams know that Ottawa needs to make a change, and we will probably be facing some tough negotiations here. Teams are going to try and pick off our talented players for as little as possible.

If a trade is going to be made, the usual call for a LW with size and grit is going to be wanted. I don't think there's much out there that's available. We have to convince a team to trade someone that they weren't looking to move, and that usually doesn't happen cheaply. Smyth is always a guy that I wouldn't mind having, but he isn't within reach. Doan is often mentioned, but is not well suited to the left wing, where we would need him to play.

Other than that, I don't know what else this team is looking for. We're playing so badly, and inconsistently at all positions, it's hard to point to one area to make improvements.

Thoughts?

To suggest that nobody is available probably isn't the case. Some teams would be desperate to dump a few players for virtually nothing, but would Ottawa have the guns to take on the salary??? Sure Melnyk has said, if we need a player or 2 to get over the top, then we'll get that player, but right now, getting over the top is the least of our concerns. I would have put Volchenkov in the safe category Discostu. Unless we are offered Ilya Kovalchuk for him, I just can't even imagine Muckler dealing him. I've always thought that acquiring somebody like Mike Ricci would be a good pickup, but does anybody know if he can play left-wing???

The Sens are in a funk, they are just going to have to play out of it. Sometimes patience is a virtue and the best policy. But with expectations high, patience is not something Sens fans have much of these days. I agree that we may have just passed the point of no return and a trade is almost likely. Of course you need two GMs willing to tango.

I hate knee-jerk reaction trades. I've never figured Muckler out with the trades he has pulled, I won't even bother to guess at what he possibly might do this season. Just be sure not to throw out the baby with the bathwater...

And I have no idea what else Muckler or Martin can do to shake things up. Perhaps just bring the Sens back to a disciplined defensive trapping style of play and just let the PP scratch out the little bit of offense needed; Gawd knows the G and D could use more support in these trying times.

Gawd knows the G and D could use more support in these trying times.

The problem in trying to anticipate any moves this team may make is that the team has been so inconsistent as a whole. There's no one or two guys you can blame this whole mess (although, it hasn't stopped most fans from trying).

I'm pretty confident something is going to happen. Muckler doesn't strike me as the patient type. I think he wants results, and that "let hte players play themselves out of it" phase is over for him in his mind. I also think that Muckler has wanted to put his own stamp on this team, and that last year, there wasn't any reason to do so (outside of the smaller trades made at the deadline).

A player that could be a remedy around here is Rod Brind'amour. A good #2 centre that's incredible at face-offs, and is the "heart-and-soul" player, a term that gets over-used incredible, but is appropriate description for him. Carolina's in a re-building stage, and they already are letting one player play out his golden years on their roster (Francis), so they could be convinced to let another one go. Problem is, he's making something like $5 mil a year, and he's signed for a few more years (not sure how long though). I don't know what it would take to land him, but Carolina would probably want Bonk as a replacement (which is too much).

I'm not suggesting(well sorta lol) we get rid of Lalime but what about Getting Kolzig from the Caps. There are rumors that he is on the Block. Would he be a upgrade over Lalime. I've always liked Kolzig and maybe with a better defense He would shine. I don't know. Just a thought.

The problem in trying to anticipate any moves this team may make is that the team has been so inconsistent as a whole. There's no one or two guys you can blame this whole mess (although, it hasn't stopped most fans from trying).

I'm pretty confident something is going to happen. Muckler doesn't strike me as the patient type. I think he wants results, and that "let hte players play themselves out of it" phase is over for him in his mind. I also think that Muckler has wanted to put his own stamp on this team, and that last year, there wasn't any reason to do so (outside of the smaller trades made at the deadline).

A player that could be a remedy around here is Rod Brind'amour. A good #2 centre that's incredible at face-offs, and is the "heart-and-soul" player, a term that gets over-used incredible, but is appropriate description for him. Carolina's in a re-building stage, and they already are letting one player play out his golden years on their roster (Francis), so they could be convinced to let another one go. Problem is, he's making something like $5 mil a year, and he's signed for a few more years (not sure how long though). I don't know what it would take to land him, but Carolina would probably want Bonk as a replacement (which is too much).

Love to get Rod Brind'amour, and it would certainly cost Bonk (or better) since the Schastlivy package deal is growing old fast. Brind'amour plays a fine two-way game, great faceoff percentage (second in the league right now), and doesn't disappear. Since Bonk is younger and cheaper the Canes would need to add to the equation, such as:

Sens: Brind'amour, Craig Adams, 2nd, .5 million
Canes: Bonk, Van Allen, 4th

Van Allen is a dump and to open a spot for energy player Craig Adams.

I'm not suggesting(well sorta lol) we get rid of Lalime but what about Getting Kolzig from the Caps. There are rumors that he is on the Block. Would he be a upgrade over Lalime. I've always liked Kolzig and maybe with a better defense He would shine. I don't know. Just a thought.

Salary is a big problem in bringing Kolzig in - would rather right now try out Prusek and Emery while waiting to see if Lalime bounces back, as he often has. If near the trade deadline, then Lalime for Kolzig might work, since only a few weeks of Kolzig's salary to pay for.

I wonder what Rachunek's trade value is like at the moment. Cheap defenseman who can log 20+ mins a night. #2 Potential? (or are we overrating here).

I wonder what Rachunek's trade value is like at the moment. Cheap defenseman who can log 20+ mins a night. #2 Potential? (or are we overrating here).

Since he is dirt cheap with very good potential I think he has fairly high trade value to real GMs, but somewhat less on the boards since fans focus more on current talent than on salary.

The problem in trying to anticipate any moves this team may make is that the team has been so inconsistent as a whole. There's no one or two guys you can blame this whole mess (although, it hasn't stopped most fans from trying).

I'm pretty confident something is going to happen. Muckler doesn't strike me as the patient type. I think he wants results, and that "let hte players play themselves out of it" phase is over for him in his mind. I also think that Muckler has wanted to put his own stamp on this team, and that last year, there wasn't any reason to do so (outside of the smaller trades made at the deadline).

A player that could be a remedy around here is Rod Brind'amour. A good #2 centre that's incredible at face-offs, and is the "heart-and-soul" player, a term that gets over-used incredible, but is appropriate description for him. Carolina's in a re-building stage, and they already are letting one player play out his golden years on their roster (Francis), so they could be convinced to let another one go. Problem is, he's making something like $5 mil a year, and he's signed for a few more years (not sure how long though). I don't know what it would take to land him, but Carolina would probably want Bonk as a replacement (which is too much).

I like Brindy a lot, and I also like Jeff Oneill a lot. O'Neill can play LW, and is a sniper who could be considered a power forward as well. In fact, I'd rather deal Bonk for O'Neill straight up, and work for Brind'amour seperately.

Brind'amour is the type of guy that would be fantastic to acquire closer to the deadline. He's the player that Bryan Smolinski is not if you ask me. A second line center who can play in any situation, and be dynamic. It's easy to second guess Muckler, but I don't think Smoke was a good pick-up or a good re-signing, or at least, not as good as we could have done.

But personally, I'd rather pick up Jeff O'Neill who's value is similar to Bonk's, for Radek. O'Neill scores goals, plays a power game, and can play any position up front.

I like Brindy a lot, and I also like Jeff Oneill a lot. O'Neill can play LW, and is a sniper who could be considered a power forward as well. In fact, I'd rather deal Bonk for O'Neill straight up, and work for Brind'amour seperately.

Brind'amour is the type of guy that would be fantastic to acquire closer to the deadline. He's the player that Bryan Smolinski is not if you ask me. A second line center who can play in any situation, and be dynamic. It's easy to second guess Muckler, but I don't think Smoke was a good pick-up or a good re-signing, or at least, not as good as we could have done.

But personally, I'd rather pick up Jeff O'Neill who's value is similar to Bonk's, for Radek. O'Neill scores goals, plays a power game, and can play any position up front.

I don't think Carolina would make such a deal, since they still have Brind'Amour. If they add Bonk, they'd have 3 two-centres on the team, all making big money (Francis, Bonk, Brindy).

How about:

Bonk, Havlat, Van Allen
for
O'Neil, Brind'amour, Adams

I think most Sens fans would think this is too much to give up, but I'm convinced that in order to get the "shake-up" that's much desired, we need to move quickly, which will cost us in terms of trade value. We're not dealing from a position of strength, and other teams know that. We probably could get a pick thrown in, but nothing higher than a 3rd I feel.

The big question is if we can sustain the salary that such a deal brings on. O"neil for Bonk is a wash, dollar wise, but Brind'amour for Havlat is an increase of $3.5 mil. We could probably handle that increase for this year, but the question remains, how long is Brind'amour signed for at that price tag. If it's more than a year after this season, it will interfere with the Sens long-term salary structure, which I'm not sure we can afford.

I don't think Carolina would make such a deal, since they still have Brind'Amour. If they add Bonk, they'd have 3 two-centres on the team, all making big money (Francis, Bonk, Brindy).

How about:

Bonk, Havlat, Van Allen
for
O'Neil, Brind'amour, Adams

I think most Sens fans would think this is too much to give up,

Well, duh considering that that the Sens get boned on this deal.

I don't know if the Sens would even look at Brind'Amour because of his contract. He'd be a perfect fit but he's on the third year of a six year deal at $5M / year.

It might not be too bad this year but what if a salary cap is imposed on the next CBA? You couldn't move him and his salary would force the team to move players that would be a lot more valuable then a 36 year old.

The only way the Sens would look at getting him would be if he would rework the last few years on his contract. But there's little chance of him turning away guaranteed money like that.

Well, duh considering that that the Sens get boned on this deal.

I don't know if the Sens would even look at Brind'Amour because of his contract. He'd be a perfect fit but he's on the third year of a six year deal at $5M / year.


Hence my comment near the end of the post. I wasn't sure how long he was signed for. I knew he was on a long-term deal, but I wasn't sure when it expired. I thought there was a chance it could have expired the season after this one, which would have been feasible.

It's a shame though. He's such a perfect fit. Since the Sens aren't carrying any unreasonable salaries long-term right now, we can't even send some salary back the other way.

Any of you notice this thread? (http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?threadid=30644)

I don't think Carolina would make such a deal, since they still have Brind'Amour. If they add Bonk, they'd have 3 two-centres on the team, all making big money (Francis, Bonk, Brindy).

How about:

Bonk, Havlat, Van Allen
for
O'Neil, Brind'amour, Adams

I think most Sens fans would think this is too much to give up, but I'm convinced that in order to get the "shake-up" that's much desired, we need to move quickly, which will cost us in terms of trade value. We're not dealing from a position of strength, and other teams know that. We probably could get a pick thrown in, but nothing higher than a 3rd I feel.

The big question is if we can sustain the salary that such a deal brings on. O"neil for Bonk is a wash, dollar wise, but Brind'amour for Havlat is an increase of $3.5 mil. We could probably handle that increase for this year, but the question remains, how long is Brind'amour signed for at that price tag. If it's more than a year after this season, it will interfere with the Sens long-term salary structure, which I'm not sure we can afford.

The thing about your deal is we essentially give up Havlat for Brind'amour. If we give up Havlat, and Alfredsson walks as a free agent, we go from three all-star RWers to one.

I'm not convinced Alfredsson is here for the long run. Not that he isn't wanted, just that he may be lured away as a UFA. In three years, we could essentially have lost Alfie to UFA, Havlat is in Carolina and Brindy is a UFA to be as well.

I think you're over-estimating Brind'amour's value. Look at what Smolinski cost us last year. While I'd much rather Brindy over Smoke, Smoke was also a UFA to be, and in today's NHL, Brind'amour's contract is a stumbling block. He'd be our highest paid player. I love the guy, he's one of my favourite players, and I'd give up any one of our prospects save Emery for the guy, but dealing Havlat for a second line veteran is not a smart move in my books. If we're dealing Havlat, fine, lets go get Ryan Smyth instead. Lets go get a younger, cheaper power forward. Brind'amour's value is not that high.

The issue for Carolina is that they do have a lot of centers, but they also have a lot of centers that can play the wing as well. But Francis is gone at the end of year, Vasicek and Staal can both play LW, Vrbata is a RW, and Cole can play either side. The following deal is what I'd offer:

To Ottawa:

Jeff O'Neill and Rod Brind'amour

To Carolina:

Radek Bonk, Antoine Vermette and Ottawa's first round pick in 2004.

Ottawa's lines afterwards:

O'Neill - Spezza - Hossa
Smolinski - White - Alfredsson
Schaefer - Brind'amour - Havlat
Varada - Fisher - Neil

Carolina's lines afterwards:

Francis - Bonk - Vrbata
Staal - Vasicek - Cole
Bayda - Vermette - Adams
Boulerice - Adams - Murray

While teams know Ottawa may want to make a move, we are also in a time where guys with long-term deals at big price tags like Brind'amour have little value. That if anything balances things out, and I personally don't think we could deal Havlat for anything less than a guy like Ryan Smyth.

The thing about your deal is we essentially give up Havlat for Brind'amour. If we give up Havlat, and Alfredsson walks as a free agent, we go from three all-star RWers to one.


The problem is, I don't see Carolina biting at O'Neil for Bonk. It's fair on paper, but it won't get the deal done. That's why Havlat it is there.

That's the problem with the situation that Ottawa is in. We want to make a big move, but any move we make in the bargaining position we are currently in will weaken us on paper. Muckler's probably on the phone already, trying to see what deals can get done, and teams are probably very hesitant. They know that Ottawa's hitting desparation time, and that we may be willing to overpay, in order to get a shake-up.

Brind'amour looks be a dead end, especially with the timeframe of the contract. I would love to get someone of his ilk though, as it fits this team's needs extremely well.

I think the suggestion of looking to Dallas may be an option. They are in a similar situation, and they may be a good candidates for a player-for-player swap. We may be able to make a deal that will get the shake-up desired, without losing our shirts.

Carolina may very well bit at a Bonk for O'neil straight up offer. From what I hear they are not happy at all with O'neil's effort (or lack there of) this season. O'neil is a natural centre also, so he could play LW or C.

The problem is, I don't see Carolina biting at O'Neil for Bonk. It's fair on paper, but it won't get the deal done. That's why Havlat it is there.

That's the problem with the situation that Ottawa is in. We want to make a big move, but any move we make in the bargaining position we are currently in will weaken us on paper. Muckler's probably on the phone already, trying to see what deals can get done, and teams are probably very hesitant. They know that Ottawa's hitting desparation time, and that we may be willing to overpay, in order to get a shake-up.

Brind'amour looks be a dead end, especially with the timeframe of the contract. I would love to get someone of his ilk though, as it fits this team's needs extremely well.

I think the suggestion of looking to Dallas may be an option. They are in a similar situation, and they may be a good candidates for a player-for-player swap. We may be able to make a deal that will get the shake-up desired, without losing our shirts.

I think Carolina might just bite on O'Neill for Bonk. As sensfan18 said below, O'Neill is in the doghouse right now. He and Maurice (whom the Canes seem to be standing behind) had a major problem last year, and something has to give. Bonk would help their 28th ranked powerplay as well as provide a guy who could really click with Radim Vrbata for the future.

I think Carolina might just bite on O'Neill for Bonk. As sensfan18 said below, O'Neill is in the doghouse right now. He and Maurice (whom the Canes seem to be standing behind) had a major problem last year, and something has to give. Bonk would help their 28th ranked powerplay as well as provide a guy who could really click with Radim Vrbata for the future.

Thanks for the insight. I didn't realize that was the case. O'Neill for Bonk very well could become a reality then.

Carolina may very well bit at a Bonk for O'neil straight up offer. From what I hear they are not happy at all with O'neil's effort (or lack there of) this season. O'neil is a natural centre also, so he could play LW or C.O'Neill isn't in the doghouse. Nor is he slacking. He just isn't getting the goals that he used to. He seems out of position on the power play, and he's not taking the shots he did before. As you can see from his assist total, he's been involved. With that said, I don't care if he stays or goes. That incident with Maurice last year is only one of things that stick out in my mind about him. Heck, that triggered my dislike for him. I would rather he go. He probably would like to star somewhere else anyway. I'd take Bonk or Anson Carter straight up (with some picks), actually.

The Canes aren't in rebuild mode. Does our lineup look that way? Possibly, because our GM is a tool.

I read most of this thread. I just want to add some insight to some of the things you said. One, Brind A'mour makes $5M, would the Sens take that? Also, contrary what one of you said, he dissappears offensively. Sort of. When he's not on his game, he looks to pass a ton and doesn't shoot. Seems like he's coming out of that, though. Still, I don't think he's worth $5M. O'Neill...well I'm not enamored with him like everyone else is. One, he takes dumb penalties which seems to give the impression that he has grit. He doesn't. When I look at O'Neill, he seems like a one-dimensional guy. Yeah, he hits (when he wants to) and he score goals, but he doesn't stand out significantly to me like a guy of his supposed caliber should. I'd take Bonk/Schatslivy in a heartbeat. I think Schats would do better in a less pressure situation. Carolina's lines afterwards:

Francis - Bonk - Vrbata
Staal - Vasicek - Cole
Bayda - Vermette - Adams
Boulerice - Adams - Murray
That was someone's lines suggestions if the Canes would accept a "Bonk/Vermette/1st rounder" deal. First, I hope Rutherford never accepts that. We aren't in a rebuilding mode and I think attendance would drop even more if we were. In a deal with the Sens, we would definitely require someone who can play RW back. Francis is not going to play wing, and Staal is a bona fide center. Vasicek is on the left, and he & Staal have good chemistry between them. Cole seems more effective on the left.

Honestly, I'd have to think the Sens would have to give up another guy who could contribute with Bonk. We need to get back into the playoffs now, or Caniacs will have someone's head. I know you guys would never agree with parting with Havlat. Him and Bonk would sure look good in Hurricane jerseys, and I'd give up Brind A'mour, O'Neill, and a 4th rounder :) We need to unload a couple of "impossible to move, aging defensemen" but I don't hear Rutherford or the fans saying this...

I think most Sens fans would think this is too much to give up, but I'm convinced that in order to get the "shake-up" that's much desired, we need to move quickly, which will cost us in terms of trade value. We're not dealing from a position of strength, and other teams know that. We probably could get a pick thrown in, but nothing higher than a 3rd I feel.
.

I'm one of those sens fans that think the sens would get jipped in a deal like that. Unless we are getting a guy like Staal or Vasicek in return, there's no way we will part with Havlat. He will be one of our key offensive cornerstones in the future if not already.

Brindamour is a nice thought but his salary is way too much. The sens would have more trouble 5 on 5 if they were to make that deal.

This team does not need a huge shake up, what they need is a wake up call. Hopefully, the game Sunday served that.

If we're giving up significant assets to Carolina, I think we should be seeking Erik Cole as the return. He's a far more natural fit on the LW than O'Neill is, can play all special teams, and is becoming one of the best young power forwards in the game.

Similarly, if we're looking at trading with teams like Nashville and Dallas, I think the targets should be Scott Hartnell and Brenden Morrow. These are the types of young nucleus players that we've never had - and (IMO) continue to be our greatest ongoing need.

I'd stay away from trading Bonk at this point. I find he makes Hossa and Varada better players. That line, when clicking, is a dominant line. I feel Bonk should stay.

Carolina could be decent trading partners as all signs point to them not making the playoffs this season. They may take a different approach to their game. Maurice points out that his system mirrors that of Martins so perhaps he'd like to acquire some players that have played within Martins system, and excelled.

If we trade with Carolina, we should look at their big four: Cole, O'Neill, Francis and Brind A'mour.

Players I'd offer: Havlat, White, Shastlivy.

I'd stay away from trading Bonk at this point. I find he makes Hossa and Varada better players. That line, when clicking, is a dominant line. I feel Bonk should stay.



Really? Hossa makes Bonk the better player not vice versa. But I agree I think that Bonk is valuable to the team than most people like to think.

btw, nice avatar.

I think we should do nothing, and wait. Even if we continue at this mediocre pace for the entire year, we still make the playoffs, so their really isn't any need to rush to make a "shake-up" move, that in the long wrong will probably produce a lost trade. We have slumped before, it will happen again, but this one just happened to coincide with the start of the year, which makes it look alot worse in the standings...

I think we should do nothing, and wait. Even if we continue at this mediocre pace for the entire year, we still make the playoffs, so their really isn't any need to rush to make a "shake-up" move, that in the long wrong will probably produce a lost trade. We have slumped before, it will happen again, but this one just happened to coincide with the start of the year, which makes it look alot worse in the standings...

The problem with this line of thinking is that, at our current rate, we risk not making the playoffs. Our schedule has been relatively easy thus far, and we're sitting in the group of team right at the playoff cut-off point. I expect that this team will improve if we let them play out of it, but every game that passes, it's starts becoming more-and-more of a possibility that the Sens could miss the playoffs.

At what point do you take corrective action? I think that time has come. This team will probably make the playoffs, but I don't want management to sit idly by and take that chance.

The problem with this line of thinking is that, at our current rate, we risk not making the playoffs. Our schedule has been relatively easy thus far, and we're sitting in the group of team right at the playoff cut-off point. I expect that this team will improve if we let them play out of it, but every game that passes, it's starts becoming more-and-more of a possibility that the Sens could miss the playoffs.

At what point do you take corrective action? I think that time has come. This team will probably make the playoffs, but I don't want management to sit idly by and take that chance.


I think they should make changes by the quarter season mark, which is a game away. I think their first action should be to change the coach, and if the team does not improve at all then player changes should be made. Mind you if a trade offer is too good to turn down then I say jump at it, but anyone that good would not just be given away.

I think you wait till the half season mark. As long as we continue at a "make the playoffs" pace, you wait for as long as possible to make a move. If we slip to "not make the playoffs pace", then you make a move sooner. But I think you wait half the year at our current pace before taking drastic measures.

The next couple of weeks will be key, as we are playing better teams. This should get us to play better, but we shall see...