Comrie [Archive] - HFBoards

soya_sauce_chicken

11-24-2003, 08:30 AM

My friend who is a die hard Oiler fan just sent me this...
FYI

Comrie to SoCal

The Mike Comrie clearance sale has come down to one city: Los Angeles. The question is, will he be crowned a King or get his Mouse ears in Anaheim? Comrie is determined to continue his career in southern California, and Edmonton GM Kevin Lowe is now resigned to satisfying that desire.

The betting is that the unsigned centre will join the Canards, not the Kings -- but not until after the Oilers and Ducks play in Edmonton this week. With new owners on the horizon -- the Maloufs, owners of the NBA Sacramento Kings -- Ducks GM Bryan Murray has been given the go-ahead to obtain Comrie. And the Ducks have some interesting young players and draft picks to offer. The Kings are less inclined to give up their prospects.

The Oilers know that they've fought the good fight, but with Adam Oates under contract, they can deal the reluctant heir of The Brick fortune and still have the playmaking centre they need to fight for a playoff spot.

One interesting sidelight: the son of Michael Eisner, the Disney chief who obtained the franchise for Anaheim, played with Comrie's brother Paul in college and is pushing his dad to obtain the slick five-foot-nine centre. So it may be doubly appropriate when the Ducks' game staff strike up the Disney theme song: It's A Small World.

Snap Wilson

11-24-2003, 08:33 AM

My friend who is a die hard Oiler fan just sent me this...
FYI

Sounds like hogwash, but did he mention the source?

Jshibley

11-24-2003, 08:59 AM

Sounds like hogwash, but did he mention the source?

I hope you are right......I don't want to see lupul, getzlaf, perry, or chistov going anywhere.

Sammy*

11-24-2003, 09:02 AM

I hope you are right......I don't want to see lupul, getzlaf, perry, or chistov going anywhere.
What, do you think you will get him for Popovic & a draft choice.
If you are going to have a chance at Comrie, Chistov + is likely the starting point.

soya_sauce_chicken

11-24-2003, 09:02 AM

Sounds like hogwash, but did he mention the source?
he said it's in the edmonton sun or journal. he is going to find it for me and send me the link later...

G-Double

11-24-2003, 09:30 AM

i think it is Dowbiggin who is out of Calgary, check the Oilers board for more info "comrie to LA"

Jshibley

11-24-2003, 10:06 AM

What, do you think you will get him for Popovic & a draft choice.
If you are going to have a chance at Comrie, Chistov + is likely the starting point.

Should I repeat myself? I would rather not have comrie at all.

Sammy*

11-24-2003, 10:38 AM

Should I repeat myself? I would rather not have comrie at all.
I guess you must be pretty confident those guys are going to turn out to be real good.
Kinda like Kilger, Salei, Balmo. Holmqvist, Smirnov...etc
I always kinda chuckle when fans wont give up potential for someone who actually has done quite alot. The liklihood of any of those guys in their lifetime ever doing what Comrie has done is really quite small.
You wouldnt give up a Getzlaff & Perry going if you are going to get a Comrie? If not, you really dont have any idea the value of someoe who has done something vs potential unlikely to ever be realized. That trade would be sooooo bad for the Oilers it would be indescribable.

Pwnasaurus

11-24-2003, 11:37 AM

I guess you must be pretty confident those guys are going to turn out to be real good.
Kinda like Kilger, Salei, Balmo. Holmqvist, Smirnov...etc
I always kinda chuckle when fans wont give up potential for someone who actually has done quite alot. The liklihood of any of those guys in their lifetime ever doing what Comrie has done is really quite small.
You wouldnt give up a Getzlaff & Perry going if you are going to get a Comrie? If not, you really dont have any idea the value of someoe who has done something vs potential unlikely to ever be realized. That trade would be sooooo bad for the Oilers it would be indescribable.

Why is that trade so bad for the Oilers? Is it because Comrie is lighting it up right now and propelling this team? The Oilers hold no cards right now. They have a guy who is a problem off the ice, not contributing on the ice. They are not in a position to be making demands. :teach:

Seachd

11-24-2003, 11:59 AM

Why is that trade so bad for the Oilers? Is it because Comrie is lighting it up right now and propelling this team? The Oilers hold no cards right now. They have a guy who is a problem off the ice, not contributing on the ice. They are not in a position to be making demands. :teach:

The exact opposite is true. The Oilers hold all the cards right now. Lowe doesn't have to move Comrie until he wants to. He's not paying him, the team's doing okay, so why slough him off for something he doesn't really want? If what you say is true, Comrie would have been long gone by now. The fact that he isn't indicates that Lowe's either going to get what he wants for him, or make him sit. No big deal either way.

Kevin Forbes

11-24-2003, 12:26 PM

I disagree with the above guy.
This has to be a distraction to the Oilers dressing room (a little bit) and any player they acquire will help the team more then Comrie is right now.

Seachd

11-24-2003, 01:14 PM

I disagree with the above guy.
This has to be a distraction to the Oilers dressing room (a little bit) and any player they acquire will help the team more then Comrie is right now.

I sincerely doubt it's a distraction in the dressing room. In fact, I don't see how it can be. Comrie's not under contract. He's nowhere near the dressing room. He hasn't been since the playoffs ended. The team's play is acceptable, and I doubt the players have even thought about Comrie since the season started. And either way, most players mentioned above or in rumours probably wouldn't help the Oilers now anyway (Lupul, Getzlaf, Perry, on the Ducks, for example).

Jshibley

11-24-2003, 01:35 PM

I guess you must be pretty confident those guys are going to turn out to be real good.
Kinda like Kilger, Salei, Balmo. Holmqvist, Smirnov...etc
I always kinda chuckle when fans wont give up potential for someone who actually has done quite alot. The liklihood of any of those guys in their lifetime ever doing what Comrie has done is really quite small.
You wouldnt give up a Getzlaff & Perry going if you are going to get a Comrie? If not, you really dont have any idea the value of someoe who has done something vs potential unlikely to ever be realized. That trade would be sooooo bad for the Oilers it would be indescribable.

First of all I think its kinda funny that in the Guithier era all people could say about the ducks is that they were too small, and then once Murray has gave the ducks some size all of the sudden people want us to trade our best prospecta for another small guy. Second of all Salei has turned into one our best defensemen on the team, so yeah I am hoping these prospects turn out to be as good as him. Have you even seen Getzlaff and/or Perry play? I have, and no way would I trade them for comrie. and 3rd of all even if the oilers got only a 3rd round draft pick for comrie, its more than they have right now, wich is nothing.

Chayos

11-24-2003, 01:53 PM

First of all I think its kinda funny that in the Guithier era all people could say about the ducks is that they were too small, and then once Murray has gave the ducks some size all of the sudden people want us to trade our best prospecta for another small guy. Second of all Salei has turned into one our best defensemen on the team, so yeah I am hoping these prospects turn out to be as good as him. Have you even seen Getzlaff and/or Perry play? I have, and no way would I trade them for comrie. and 3rd of all even if the oilers got only a 3rd round draft pick for comrie, its more than they have right now, wich is nothing.

So i can give you $500 for your car when it's in teh shop and you should accept it becaue your not driving it right now anyways. Your logic is flwed my friend, a player has a value whether he is playing or not. By your standards Giggy could be had for a 3rd round pick earlier in the season because he was contributing to the team either right?

Jshibley

11-24-2003, 01:57 PM

So i can give you $500 for your car when it's in teh shop and you should accept it becaue your not driving it right now anyways. Your logic is flwed my friend, a player has a value whether he is playing or not. By your standards Giggy could be had for a 3rd round pick earlier in the season because he was contributing to the team either right?

Wrong giguere did sign. And I would eventually drive my car again after its fixed......This isn't an injured player we are talking about we are talking about a player that will never play a single game for the oilers ever again.

soya_sauce_chicken

11-24-2003, 02:16 PM

Getzlaf is a good prospect.. I would really hate to seee him leave for Comrie..
Like Jshibley stated..
i would rather keep young future prospects than trade for Comrie.. Plus the Ducks are always rebuilding.. so young blood is better to keep around imo...

Bobby Ryan Getzlaf

11-24-2003, 03:20 PM

I don't think if Comrie comes to Anaheim Getzlaf, Perry, Chistov, or Lupul will leave. Look at some other trades Lowe made: Hammer for Brewer, Carter for Dvorak, Niinimaa for Torres, etc. Talent for potential-filled players. It makes sense that Comrie will end up going to Anaheim for something like Vish, Smirnov and/or whatever. Comrie for Smirnov seems like a decent base, maybe with some extra tagged along.

Also, Sammy, I don't think Murray would ever trade Popovic and a pick for Comrie. Popo is the only offensive d-man prospect in our system.

Though, it's very possible that someone like Getzlaf or Chistov could go for Comrie. I'm begginning to see that it wouldn't be too bad after all. Comrie's very young, and is proven. Chistov should break out soon, but it's very possible he may not. Comrie would be a good return for him. He'd be replaced on the future first line by Corey Perry, and his role would be replaced by Leclerc when he gets back. Hopefully they try to get Laraques with Comrie as well.

lux_interior

11-24-2003, 03:48 PM

I guess you must be pretty confident those guys are going to turn out to be real good.
Kinda like Kilger, Salei, Balmo. Holmqvist, Smirnov...etc
I always kinda chuckle when fans wont give up potential for someone who actually has done quite alot. The liklihood of any of those guys in their lifetime ever doing what Comrie has done is really quite small.
You wouldnt give up a Getzlaff & Perry going if you are going to get a Comrie? If not, you really dont have any idea the value of someoe who has done something vs potential unlikely to ever be realized. That trade would be sooooo bad for the Oilers it would be indescribable.

Kilger and Balmochnykh you have a point. Holmqvist probably. Smirnov is still a work in progress. But Salei? I think he's a solid top 4 NHL defenseman. And except for maybe Carney, the Ducks most physical defenseman. He was one of the leading ice time guys in last years playoffs.

John Druce

11-24-2003, 03:53 PM

Kevein Lowe's Possible Thought Process...

Comrie for Lupul + _____(fill in the blank)_______

=

Edmonton Kid for Edmonton Kid

lux_interior

11-24-2003, 04:03 PM

Kevein Lowe's Possible Thought Process...

Comrie for Lupul + _____(fill in the blank)_______

=

Edmonton Kid for Edmonton Kid

+ ? I think Lupul for Comrie is enough. Maybe a late round draft pick at most in addition.

punchy1

11-24-2003, 06:32 PM

i was just curious but since Salo is on the outs in Edm and the ducks have the second best goalie in the game in Jiggy, would they send Gerber as part of the deal? I wonder if Lowe would want him and a Getzlav type of prospect and maybe make the deal work from his end too.

Just curious. I didn't see Gerbers name come up and since I don't follow either team I was just curious. I think that with his talent that he should be given a shot at being a number one in the NHL and that he would do great in Edm. If it was worked right Gerber would be a player that would make the other prospect from the ducks not have to be a Lupul quality type. I am probably off but just curious.

Randall Graves*

11-24-2003, 06:48 PM

I guess you must be pretty confident those guys are going to turn out to be real good.
Kinda like Kilger, Salei, Balmo. Holmqvist, Smirnov...etc
I always kinda chuckle when fans wont give up potential for someone who actually has done quite alot. The liklihood of any of those guys in their lifetime ever doing what Comrie has done is really quite small.
You wouldnt give up a Getzlaff & Perry going if you are going to get a Comrie? If not, you really dont have any idea the value of someoe who has done something vs potential unlikely to ever be realized. That trade would be sooooo bad for the Oilers it would be indescribable.Kilger turned out to be a decent player for the Habs before he hurt his eye, Salei is a good 2nd pairing defensemen and Smirnov is freakin 21 years old read Forbsey's write up on him...he can be a very good player if he wants to be.

Comrie also hasn't played a competitive game in 6-7 months so he wouldn't come in and produce right away...Getzlaf is almost a lock to make the team next year but if Fedorov were to leave after 2 years the ducks would be solid down the middle with Comrie,Getzlaf,Brent and Rucchin.

Getzlaf and Perry for Comrie...no thanks.

Sammy*

11-24-2003, 07:39 PM

Kilger turned out to be a decent player for the Habs before he hurt his eye, Salei is a good 2nd pairing defensemen and Smirnov is freakin 21 years old read Forbsey's write up on him...he can be a very good player if he wants to be.

Comrie also hasn't played a competitive game in 6-7 months so he wouldn't come in and produce right away...Getzlaf is almost a lock to make the team next year but if Fedorov were to leave after 2 years the ducks would be solid down the middle with Comrie,Getzlaf,Brent and Rucchin.

Getzlaf and Perry for Comrie...no thanks.
You guys m,ake it sound like someone like Corey Perry , Popovic, Getzlaff, Smirnov et al are locks to make the NHL. In fact, statistically speaking, its unlikely guys like them will ever play regularly in the NHL, never mind make any kind of an impact . One of these days you should go take a look at the NHL Official Guide & record book and look at the draft picks (particularly the mid to late 1st rounders & beyond) over the last 10 or so years. Its really quite illuminating & I think you may then take a little more realistic look at the liklihood of guys like Perry, Popovic, Getzlaff et al ever doing anything.
Geezus, we are talking about a guy who just turned 23, & in the last 2 years as a as a 21 & 22 year old scored only 2 less goals in 4 less games than the mighty Petr Sykora ( who is now 27).
You guys make it sound like 21 year olds who score 33 goals are common place & arent worth the garbage you are under the illusion are gimmes to play in ther NHL.
What a joke.

elphy101

11-24-2003, 08:30 PM

I agree with the statements that Comrie holds less value because he is sitting. However that does not mean that Lowe will just give him away. It does not hurt the Oilers too badly to sit Comrie for an entire year if that's what is required. From the looks of things, he will be traded for a prospect or two. Who cares if those prospects develop in the Oilers system or in someone else's. When you have an asset that is not garnering enough interest, you don't give it away. You sit on it till the market changes and interest picks up. Oates is a damn fine fill in for Comrie this year anyway.

On a different not, just for the record. Comrie is a damn talented player. Most Oiler fans overvalue him but most fans on other teams undervalue him just as much. This is a kid that scored 50 goals in basically 1.5 seasons(taking into consideration his playing with a broken wrist for a big chunk of last season) as a 21-22 year old .

I'm sorry but Smirnov is not fair value for Comrie, no matter how much ducks fans want to believe that

duckhead3198

11-24-2003, 08:33 PM

Haha, if we're so stupid, and we never get it, then why don't you just let it go yourself?

I wouldn't give up any grade A prospects for Comrie because I don't want to. Sure they may never pan out. Then why would you say Lowe should get someone like Getzlaf or Perry when someone like Vishnevski and Sauer have played in the NHL?

You are telling me that we should take Comrie for prospects because our good prospects likely won't pan out? But you want those same prospects in return?

Spankatola Jamnuts*

11-24-2003, 08:33 PM

Comrie would be a great pickup and I hope we get him, even if it costs us one of the wunderkinds.

fez

11-25-2003, 12:47 AM

Id trade Cheese for him

Lupul, Perry, Brent and Getz are no nos.

soya_sauce_chicken

11-25-2003, 07:06 AM

Jshibley

11-25-2003, 08:16 AM

kingbrath

11-25-2003, 08:39 AM

persnally I wouldnt trade Lupul, CHistov, Frolov or Brown for Mike Comrie, I think all of these player have to much upside for their teams. Although a Comrie for Belanger and Lehoux deal would work for me :D

soya_sauce_chicken

11-25-2003, 08:52 AM

elphy101

11-25-2003, 08:53 AM

I like this post a lot. Very un-biased.....and also I could be wrong but I think the only person who mentioned Smirinov is Sammy.... All we are saying is we don't want to lose Getzlaf, Lupul, or Perry.....also duckhead makes a great point....if our prospects without nhl experiance are so unlikely to amount to anything, then why do you want them insted of our players with NHL experience???

I think the reason Lowe wants prospects rather than NHL'ers is that he will not get fair value for Comrie. He will not get a 23 year 30 goal scorer for Comrie. It won't happen. So instead he is trying to do exactly what he has done in other deals. Take a high-end prospect or two in the hopes that one will develop into a player as good as if not better than Comrie. It's riskier but at the same time more rewarding. It's not like the Oilers are going to win the cup this year anyways. The Ducks if they turn it around could.

kingbrath

11-25-2003, 08:58 AM

LOL
u just want him for the kings... ;)

hell if Lowe would take EBel and Lehoux for Comrie, I'd even hand out The Brick flyers for his daddy

elphy101

11-25-2003, 11:46 AM

Looks like you guys were alot more right than I was. According to a fairly reliable Edmonton radio personality, the Ducks have pulled Lupul off the table and are now offering Corey Perry and a 2nd.

Seachd

11-25-2003, 12:15 PM

Looks like you guys were alot more right than I was. According to a fairly reliable Edmonton radio personality, the Ducks have pulled Lupul off the table and are now offering Corey Perry and a 2nd.

Hey, Elphy, who are you listening to? This sucks, because I'm closer to Calgary than Edmonton. I can only get Edmonton stations if I'm in my car. :dunno:

Jshibley

11-25-2003, 12:38 PM

Spankatola Jamnuts*

11-25-2003, 12:42 PM

little digression here:

While I enjoy the fact that the Ducks actually have players and prospects that other teams are interested in for the first time that I can remember, all this endless trade speculation is a bit draining.

Anyway - I'd do the Perry deal, since I don't like him anyway. I'd think it would take more than him plus a second to get Comrie, though.

Seachd

11-25-2003, 12:50 PM

soya_sauce_chicken

11-25-2003, 12:57 PM

i for one like that deal.. hehehee.. *snickering in the corner* take perry...
we'll take Comrie for that... ;)

Randall Graves*

11-25-2003, 01:00 PM

You guys m,ake it sound like someone like Corey Perry , Popovic, Getzlaff, Smirnov et al are locks to make the NHL. In fact, statistically speaking, its unlikely guys like them will ever play regularly in the NHL, never mind make any kind of an impact . One of these days you should go take a look at the NHL Official Guide & record book and look at the draft picks (particularly the mid to late 1st rounders & beyond) over the last 10 or so years. Its really quite illuminating & I think you may then take a little more realistic look at the liklihood of guys like Perry, Popovic, Getzlaff et al ever doing anything.
Geezus, we are talking about a guy who just turned 23, & in the last 2 years as a as a 21 & 22 year old scored only 2 less goals in 4 less games than the mighty Petr Sykora ( who is now 27).
You guys make it sound like 21 year olds who score 33 goals are common place & arent worth the garbage you are under the illusion are gimmes to play in ther NHL.
What a joke.
Lets see...Smirnov has already played in the NHL,Getzlaf was the final cut in camp,Popovic was the 2nd to last cut in camp and Perry is leading the OHL in scoring and who says Comrie will continue producing?I am guessing you haven't seen Perry,Getzlaf and Popovic play which wouldn't surprise me because your on the comrie bandwagon...some of us are not.

deal with it.

Jshibley

11-25-2003, 01:00 PM

Randall Graves*

11-25-2003, 01:12 PM

Looks like you guys were alot more right than I was. According to a fairly reliable Edmonton radio personality, the Ducks have pulled Lupul off the table and are now offering Corey Perry and a 2nd.
I would do that if I were the ducks.
If I were an oilers fan i'd laugh the ducks have alot of forward depth but I doubt they are willing to trade a guy like Lupul unless its like for Kovalchuk or something.

I heard a McDonald Sauer rumors today...i wonder how much substance there is to that.

Bobby Ryan Getzlaf

11-25-2003, 01:17 PM

Well, Oiler fans are rioting pretty good against this whole Perry and a 2nd thing. If that's all the Ducks are offering, then I personally think there's no way Comrie will be going to Anaheim. It just doesn't seem like near good enough of a deal.

I really can't see why there's no chance at this. Lowe traded Janne Niinimaa, a very solid d-man who's contract wasn't expiring(though he's paid quite a bit) for Raffi Torres, a prospect with good potential(though he hadn't proved much) and Brad Isbister. He threw in a second as well. Corey Perry leads the OHL in scoring. A 2nd is a good pick. But that's not enough for a holdout center who's not going to play for the Oil again? Joffrey Lupul has great potential to be a solid 30-goal scorer, the Richard trophy is not out of reach from him, and I don't think it's out of the question that he score 30 goals before he's 23. Add in that Comrie is a holdout, and that equals he is worth more than Mike Comrie. Chistov is a similar, but playmaking, youngster. He's small like Comrie, and he'd be a good return for him. He's about worth Comrie straight up, maybe things added on each end(picks, Laraques, etc.).

Jshibley

11-25-2003, 01:35 PM

I would do that if I were the ducks.
If I were an oilers fan i'd laugh the ducks have alot of forward depth but I doubt they are willing to trade a guy like Lupul unless its like for Kovalchuk or something.

I heard a McDonald Sauer rumors today...i wonder how much substance there is to that.

McDonald Saur makes more sense than me. who knows he most likely isn't even coming here.

Seachd

11-25-2003, 02:07 PM

cheesymc

11-25-2003, 02:12 PM

I think Chistov for Comrie straight up is pretty fair...

Chistov has talent but its still unknown how good he'll be. Hes definitely not on par with Kovalchuk as some scout have said (just dumb).

I just don't think the Ducks would like to have another possible large salary unless it would give them a chance for the Cup.

I would make the trade if the Oilers included a tough forward in a packaged deal.

chris_dub

11-25-2003, 02:39 PM

http://www.hfboards.com//showthread.php?threadid=31000

Latest Rumour :dunno:

Comrie -for- Perry & 2nd Rounder

hunter orange

11-25-2003, 03:48 PM

That Perry rumor is interesting. While I'm not a big fan of it at this point, something about it has KEVIN LOWE written all over it. With so many negative evaluations of Perry coming from scouts (whether they are true or not), I can't see this deal happening unless it is expanded and Edmonton gets something more that is a "sure bet".

Curious to know what Anaheim fans would think of the folowing deal:

Comrie, Ferguson/ Allen ----- for ----- Perry, Vishnevski

Spankatola Jamnuts*

11-25-2003, 03:58 PM

Neither Fergurson nor Allen would find any use for themselves in the Ducks lineup.

fez

11-25-2003, 04:32 PM

I like Perry, but it is a fair deal i guess.

Spankatola Jamnuts*

11-25-2003, 04:40 PM

GoingGoingGagner

11-25-2003, 05:27 PM

elphy101

11-25-2003, 05:44 PM

Could a deal involving Niedermayer work? The Oilers have a large group of NHL-calibre players and I think a combination of mayber Comrie, Laraque, and Chimera for Niedermayer and someone could work.

Please tell me this is sarcasm?

Comrie for Perry and a 2nd would be better than that.

GoingGoingGagner

11-25-2003, 05:47 PM

Please tell me this is sarcasm?

Comrie for Perry and a 2nd would be better than that.

I guess..i suck at deals. O well just trying to shake things up.
What's wrong with Niedermayer by the way?

Spankatola Jamnuts*

11-25-2003, 05:51 PM

I don't think Niedermayer would be overwhelmingly hard to get, but he costs 2.1 million. That seems a bit steep for the Oilers to pay a 3rd liner.

Bobby Ryan Getzlaf

11-25-2003, 06:55 PM

You guys...I know we've had this conversation already but come on. Comrie is proven talent.

Fedorov, Comrie, Rucchin - IMO that's the best or 2nd best group of top 3 centers in the West. That'd be worth giving any one of Lupul, Getzlaf, Perry, or Vishnevsky, plus a pick or scrub or whatever.

You're completely right. I may be alone on this one, but I'd sure like Mike Comrie as second line center over Sami Pahlsson. I'd say Perry and other prospects picks, Chistov, McDonald, or whatever combinations Lowe can think of, would be good. Lupul is off the block according to Murray, so he won't leave. I'd like our line-up if we used Perry and other prospects/picks to get him.

Chistov-Fedorov-McDonald
Prospal-Comrie-Sykora
Niedermayer-Rucchin-Lupul
Pahlsson-Krog-Johnson/Burnett

But, I guess that leaves Leclerc out of things. Maybe it would be best to trade him after he returns, and get something really good in return for him. Maybe Leclerc and Havelid for a good offensive d-man to go with Carney. Or Leclerc and Simpson for a good defense one to go with Ozo.

Spankatola Jamnuts*

11-25-2003, 06:59 PM

Bobby Ryan Getzlaf

11-25-2003, 07:04 PM

I think Leclerc's a bit too valuable to get rid of. I'd release or demote Krog or Pahlsson before trading Leclerc in order to make room for him.

Leclerc-Rucchin-Niedermayer is just too good a checking ling.

Yeah, I'd go on a limb and say best third line in the NHL. But I'd like Lupul to be a factor on this team. If it's Chistov that gets the boot over anyone else, Lupul can take his spot and Leclerc eventually replaces Lupul. If no roster players go, then I'd say they better demote Lupul, so they don't waste his talents.

Leclerc would get a great return, though. Or maybe not. Teams may underrate him. But based on ability, alot can be had for him.

Spankatola Jamnuts*

11-25-2003, 07:09 PM

He would, but to link this thread to the thread on the main board, why are we going to give up our most effective power forward? Leclerc's more valuable on the roster than as a trade asset.

Chayos

11-25-2003, 09:43 PM

I really can't see why there's no chance at this. Lowe traded Janne Niinimaa, a very solid d-man who's contract wasn't expiring(though he's paid quite a bit) for Raffi Torres, a prospect with good potential(though he hadn't proved much) and Brad Isbister. He threw in a second as well. Corey Perry leads the OHL in scoring. A 2nd is a good pick. But that's not enough for a holdout center who's not going to play for the Oil again? Joffrey Lupul has great potential to be a solid 30-goal scorer, the Richard trophy is not out of reach from him, and I don't think it's out of the question that he score 30 goals before he's 23. Add in that Comrie is a holdout, and that equals he is worth more than Mike Comrie. Chistov is a similar, but playmaking, youngster. He's small like Comrie, and he'd be a good return for him. He's about worth Comrie straight up, maybe things added on each end(picks, Laraques, etc.).

How about this: Comrie and rita and Laraque
for Chsitov ans vishnevski

Spankatola Jamnuts*

11-25-2003, 09:46 PM

I hate to give up Chistov when his upside is so high.

fez

11-26-2003, 12:35 AM

You're completely right. I may be alone on this one, but I'd sure like Mike Comrie as second line center over Sami Pahlsson. I'd say Perry and other prospects picks, Chistov, McDonald, or whatever combinations Lowe can think of, would be good. Lupul is off the block according to Murray, so he won't leave. I'd like our line-up if we used Perry and other prospects/picks to get him.

Chistov-Fedorov-McDonald
Prospal-Comrie-Sykora
Niedermayer-Rucchin-Lupul
Pahlsson-Krog-Johnson/Burnett

But, I guess that leaves Leclerc out of things. Maybe it would be best to trade him after he returns, and get something really good in return for him. Maybe Leclerc and Havelid for a good offensive d-man to go with Carney. Or Leclerc and Simpson for a good defense one to go with Ozo.

Im still waiting to see how important Jerky is to this team, watch when he comes back I bet we start winning games just because of his sheer knack for standing in front of the net and scoring dirty goals.
Everyone else (exceptions Nieds and Ruuch) are trying to be too pretty.

Pwnasaurus

11-26-2003, 04:08 AM

Perry and a 2nd works for me....and I was never a supporter of the Comrie talk...

MTWRX

11-26-2003, 05:33 AM

- The latest Mike Comrie trade rumour involves Anaheim Mighty Ducks defenceman Vitaly Vishnevski.

http://www.canoe.ca/EdmontonSports/es.es-11-26-0119.html

jdhebner

11-26-2003, 06:53 AM

http://www.canoe.ca/EdmontonSports/es.es-11-26-0119.html
I wonder whether this 'rumor' was gleaned off of some discussion boards....

soya_sauce_chicken

11-26-2003, 07:05 AM

Im still waiting to see how important Jerky is to this team, watch when he comes back I bet we start winning games just because of his sheer knack for standing in front of the net and scoring dirty goals.
Everyone else (exceptions Nieds and Ruuch) are trying to be too pretty.
i don't know about that.. Mac goes to the front of the net also..
but yes, everyone else tries to be pretty..

soya_sauce_chicken

11-26-2003, 07:08 AM

I wonder whether this 'rumor' was gleaned off of some discussion boards....
OoooO
new user.. welcome to the Ducks Board!! :yo:

Spankatola Jamnuts*

11-26-2003, 07:51 AM

I wonder whether this 'rumor' was gleaned off of some discussion boards....
I don't blame you when absolutely no source is given.

Sam Beckett

11-26-2003, 07:59 AM

So is this the Fourth or Fifth different trade rumor..?? :dunno:

Does the number of trade rumors involving Mike Comrie have anything to do with the fact that it's the Edmonton Oilers or that they are a Canadian team?

And of all the rumors out there.. which do you all think is most likely?

Lupul or Chistov for Comrie

McDonald and Sauer for Comrie and a pick

Perry and a 2nd for Comrie

and now
Vishnevski for Comrie

Let me know if I forgot any..

I'm leaning toward Perry and a 2nd.. not sure that would be enough though...

I really don't want to give up a roster player.. but I think we will have to..
Most likely it would be Vish..

Go Ducks!!!

FacelessButcher

11-26-2003, 08:36 AM

McDonald and Sauer for Comrie and a pick

Where did you hear this one I never heard it before.

Jshibley

11-26-2003, 09:55 AM

elphy101

11-26-2003, 06:07 PM

The only ones that i would really not want to happen would be lupul or chistov. the rest i would probably do. All I know is Murray has yet to make a bad trade since he bacame the ducks GM, I don't know why he would start now.

To be honest, I think that whichever GM acquires Comrie will win the trade. Unfortunately Comrie is a stud on the ice, a baby off the ice. Because of that Baby, Lowe will not get full value for Comrie. That is why I say whichever team acquires Comrie will win the trade.

190Octane

11-26-2003, 07:14 PM

I believe the Oilers had two d-men go down tonight.. if the injuries are serious we might see something done.

Jshibley

11-26-2003, 07:22 PM

I believe the Oilers had two d-men go down tonight.. if the injuries are serious we might see something done.

looks like brewer is day to day.

Duckstudd269

11-26-2003, 07:56 PM

Looks like you guys were alot more right than I was. According to a fairly reliable Edmonton radio personality, the Ducks have pulled Lupul off the table and are now offering Corey Perry and a 2nd.

:handclap: finally! ive been waitin for someone to say that forever. Lupul has way to much potential to trade. The same goes for Getzlaf, the guy is a powerforward, who can score, fight, and is a leader, cant have much more potential then that. Now at first i was all for trading chistov, but the more i see him play, the more i wanna keep him, all he needs to do is learn how to shoot the puck. the same goes for vish. He's been playin great as well, and with havelid struggling, i dont think its wise to trade him. Id rather keep vish over sauer and simpson. Now the perry and a 2nd for comrie sounds good to me. addin somethin might make it better for edmonton like..

To Anaheim: Comrie, Laraques

To Edmonton: Perry, 2nd, Smirnov, 5th

JJTopper

11-26-2003, 08:46 PM

Staios wasn't hurt, he was ejected for not having his sweater tied down. Brewer pulled his groin or something. It does give Semenov a chance to show his stuff though, so it shouldn't be that bad.

To Anaheim: Comrie, Laraques

To Edmonton: Perry, 2nd, Smirnov, 5th

Brutal...be sure to lube up before giving it to Lowe.

Spankatola Jamnuts*

11-26-2003, 09:03 PM

It's not that bad.

Duckstudd269

11-26-2003, 09:08 PM

It's not that bad.

no joke, heck if a 2nd and perry is good enough for comrie. then it shouldnt take that much for Laraque.

JJTopper

11-26-2003, 09:09 PM

It's not that bad.

Two quality players (Young star and one of the top enforcers in the league) for a couple B prospects and picks...all of whom could never become regular NHL'ers. Doesn't sound good to me, thats forsure. Maybe if this was a salary dump with guys about to become UFA's or something..

Spankatola Jamnuts*

11-26-2003, 09:25 PM

It's not happening in a vacuum. You'll not get anywhere near fair value for Comrie due to his situation, and Laraque's been struggling all season.

JJTopper

11-26-2003, 09:34 PM

It's not happening in a vacuum. You'll not get anywhere near fair value for Comrie due to his situation, and Laraque's been struggling all season.

I know you won't get full value for Comrie, but if you're not getting a deal that helps your team, why do it? Especially dealing with a team that could knock you out of the playoffs every year.

- Comrie playing in the west hurts Edmonton unless you get good/pretty good value.
- Comrie sitting till he's a UFA or going to the East for this kind of deal doesn't help Edmonon, but doesn't hurt either.

PS: And Chistov has been struggling as well. Guess he's worth peanuts too?

Spankatola Jamnuts*

11-26-2003, 09:40 PM

JJTopper

11-26-2003, 09:45 PM

Only the least charitable of analysts would look at Georges Laraque and Stanislav Chistov and pronounce their value the same. Don't be obtuse.

Comrie's not helping the Oilers right now, and his value is only going to drop. It's not like the Oilers are tearing up the league, in no need of help. The same conference argument is overrated: GMs take the best deal.

I wasn't comparing their value, I was just saying because a good player struggles a little bit in the first 20 games of the season, it shouldn't lower their value to nothing.

If Edmonton needs help right now, how do prospects/picks help?

Spankatola Jamnuts*

11-26-2003, 09:54 PM

Spankatola Jamnuts*

11-26-2003, 10:29 PM

Too much, Die Hard.

JJTopper

11-26-2003, 10:49 PM

Enforcers don't hold much value to begin with, and Laraque goes through long stretches where he doesn't hit. That hurts a 4th liner's value a lot.

About the other, I meant that they can't use their place in the standings as an excuse to stand pat, plus they need to avoid a desperation deal for a roster player, who more than likely is already established - and we've agreed that you'll never get full value - so you're looking at a guy like McDonald for example, someone who can contribute but not replace Comrie. So your options are to downgrade your talent or make a deal that has potential.

I'd do the potential. The Oilers have a nice group of forwards and have an insurance policy at center for this season in Oates.

If Worrell and a 2nd can land you Messier and Nedorost, I wouldn't mind seeing what Laraque and a pick could land. ;)

Yes, you could settle for a downgrade in talent or prospects with good upside, but when we're talking a young star like Comrie, they have to be good prospects who are almost sure-fire NHL'ers with good upside and Perry/Smirnov are not that IMO. All you have to look at is the Niinimaa deal. Now he wasn't a young stud like Comrie when we traded him, but we brought back an underachieving power forward and a sure-fire NHLer type prospect who has since landed a full time job and is leading our team in goals. Thats how you do a risky deal involving top end talent...this isn't Pittsburgh. And it was with an Eastern team, so even if we ended up with two ok 3rd liners, it wasn't going to cost us a playoff spot. Not to mention adding a player like Laraque to a Comrie deal should atleast get you a player of pretty equel to Comrie.

Remember than Comrie's salary is going to be something like 1.3-1.5M so it would actually mean a 1M drop in payroll for Ducks (though I suspect Ducks would have to eat part of Niedermayer's salary).

Actually, Comrie said he would sign for about 500,000. Even giving up fair value for Comrie (which Edmonton won't get), that is a bargin IMO!

Hank

11-27-2003, 08:40 AM

If Worrell and a 2nd can land you Messier and Nedorost, I wouldn't mind seeing what Laraque and a pick could land.

Pahlsson (Messier) and Smirnov (Nedorost) for Laraque and your 2nd in 2004. I'd do that deal in a heartbeat and I don't even really want Laraque.

All you have to look at is the Niinimaa deal.

Huge difference between Niinimaa and Comrie... a signed contract.

Duckstudd269

11-27-2003, 08:40 AM

Pahlsson, Niedermayer, 1st for Comrie.

I actually don't want to give up Perry either.

thats giving way to much IMO, id rather see perry go, then Nieds. but has anybody noticed how invisible Nieds has gotten since he got taken off a line with federov? i think they should put him back with feds and chistov or andymac. thoughts?

oh and when ur reading this, is my avatar gone?

Hank

11-27-2003, 08:42 AM

oh and when ur reading this, is my avatar gone?

Yes, I only see blank space.

Duckstudd269

11-27-2003, 08:49 AM

Yes, I only see blank space.

does anybody know why? :dunno:

and have some things changed when u reply or is it just me? like.. when i just wanna comment not any specif users comments, theres no more, post reply..? and my avatar is all of a sudden just gone?

Sam Beckett

11-27-2003, 09:24 AM

does anybody know why? :dunno:

and have some things changed when u reply or is it just me? like.. when i just wanna comment not any specif users comments, theres no more, post reply..? and my avatar is all of a sudden just gone?

If you go to the main index.. it looks as though they have gone back to an older version of the message board software.. maybe they are having some sort of problem..like they did during the draft..

Sam Beckett

11-27-2003, 09:26 AM

If you go to the main index.. it looks as though they have gone back to an older version of the message board software.. maybe they are having some sort of problem..like they did during the draft..

Yep.. here is the link to the explaination..
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?threadid=31341

Kevin Forbes

11-27-2003, 10:08 AM

Jerky Leclerc

11-27-2003, 10:16 AM

It will be interesting to see what Lowe will actually get for Comrie, as the latest news indicates he has had to lower his demands considerably. Frankly, if we are paying as much as some of these proposals ask for, I don't want Comrie. We can do fine without him.

One thing is for sure, if Comrie is to become a Mighty Ducks, it will be on our terms, not Edmonton. There is no urgent need for Comrie and I don't think Bryan Murray would give any blue chip.

Sammy*

11-27-2003, 10:47 AM

One thing is for sure, if Comrie is to become a Mighty Ducks, it will be on our terms, not Edmonton. There is no urgent need for Comrie and I don't think Bryan Murray would give any blue chip.
I am truly interested. If Chistov for some reason was on the block,& you could not/would not take on a bunch of salary, what would you guys like in return?.
How bout Mikinov & Oilers #2?.

Chayos

11-27-2003, 11:30 AM

no joke, heck if a 2nd and perry is good enough for comrie. then it shouldnt take that much for Laraque.

The problem is the 2nd and perry isn't enough to get Comrie. Laraque is tradable right now, but the market was set in the Worrel deal so unless we get a plyer of nedorost's caliber then Bg goes no where.

Chayos

11-27-2003, 11:35 AM

Pahlsson (Messier) and Smirnov (Nedorost) for Laraque and your 2nd in 2004. I'd do that deal in a heartbeat and I don't even really want Laraque.

Huge difference between Niinimaa and Comrie... a signed contract.

Pahlsson and Mesier are comparable but the oilers have no need for a player like Pahlsson right now. I am not sure on Smirnov's value but was he a 1st round pick, because Nedorost was. How about this one to make it a little easier to swallow from an oiler standpoint.

Perry For Laraque.

Straight up no picks or other players involved

lux_interior

11-27-2003, 12:28 PM

Pahlsson, Niedermayer, 1st for Comrie.

I actually don't want to give up Perry either.

This is way way way too much for Comrie. Murray might as well grab his ankles while he's at it.

Bobby Ryan Getzlaf

11-27-2003, 01:25 PM

Pahlsson and Mesier are comparable but the oilers have no need for a player like Pahlsson right now. I am not sure on Smirnov's value but was he a 1st round pick, because Nedorost was. How about this one to make it a little easier to swallow from an oiler standpoint.

Perry For Laraque.

Straight up no picks or other players involved

Yes, lets trade the leading scorer in the OHL for a struggling enforcer. And you thought Perry and a second for Comrie was brutal.

You guys are seriously underrating Perry. The guy has been awesome in the OHL. He's definetely looking like he'll be a good player in the NHL.

But what has been the worst comment I've heard, is that Getzlaf is considered a B prospect, who according to Sammy, will not likely make the NHL. Yeah, the guy has been awesome in the Dub, both ways, he got a goal(a nice looking one too) and an assist last night against the Selects, he had a better WJC camp than Horton and Staal, combined(points and hits), and, above all else, he nearly made a fairly deep Ducks team this year. He wasn't signed because of the new CBA, and because of the fact that they'd like to see him develop more in the Dub. Yeah, he's a grade B prospect who will never likely see NHL ice.

FacelessButcher

11-27-2003, 01:55 PM

Yes, lets trade the leading scorer in the OHL for a struggling enforcer. And you thought Perry and a second for Comrie was brutal.

You guys are seriously underrating Perry. The guy has been awesome in the OHL. He's definetely looking like he'll be a good player in the NHL.

But what has been the worst comment I've heard, is that Getzlaf is considered a B prospect, who according to Sammy, will not likely make the NHL. Yeah, the guy has been awesome in the Dub, both ways, he got a goal(a nice looking one too) and an assist last night against the Selects, he had a better WJC camp than Horton and Staal, combined(points and hits), and, above all else, he nearly made a fairly deep Ducks team this year. He wasn't signed because of the new CBA, and because of the fact that they'd like to see him develop more in the Dub. Yeah, he's a grade B prospect who will never likely see NHL ice.
It's not that brutal we would not have too hard of a time getting a 2nd+3rd pick -or- 2 2nd's for Laraque. You paid exactly 2 2nd picks for Perry just a few months ago but the fact that Perry has been playing above expectations increases his trade value and Laraque playing poorly decreases his trade value but both have occured in a rather short time frame so niether should drift too far away from their previous values it just further highlights the difference(which isn't overly great add a 3rd pick from EDM and it's fair). Scoring lead a third of the way through the season in the OHL is not that big of a deal it's not the toughest of leagues and the season is not yet done he could go into a scoring slump or someone could beat him out.

We have a player named Peter Sarno who finished with the scoring lead twice in the OHL and will be lucky if he ever becomes anything better than a 4th liner PETER SARNO BIO (http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/player_bio.asp?player_id=1158&hubname=EDM). If he had a scoring lead in the AHL or the Russian Super League I would be impressed but it's too early to say with any certainty if he will make the NHL. I wouldn't mind taking a chance on him but he's no blue chip prospect or a "sure thing" to make an impact in the NHL.

Bobby Ryan Getzlaf

11-27-2003, 02:11 PM

It's not that brutal we would not have too hard of a time getting a 2nd+3rd pick -or- 2 2nd's for Laraque. You paid exactly 2 2nd picks for Perry just a few months ago but the fact that Perry has been playing above expectations increases his trade value and Laraque playing poorly decreases his trade value but both have occured in a rather short time frame so niether should drift too far away from their previous values it just further highlights the difference(which isn't overly great add a 3rd pick from EDM and it's fair). Scoring lead a third of the way through the season in the OHL is not that big of a deal it's not the toughest of leagues and the season is not yet done he could go into a scoring slump or someone could beat him out.

We have a player named Peter Sarno who finished with the scoring lead twice in the OHL and will be lucky if he ever becomes anything better than a 4th liner PETER SARNO BIO (http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/player_bio.asp?player_id=1158&hubname=EDM). If he had a scoring lead in the AHL or the Russian Super League I would be impressed but it's too early to say with any certainty if he will make the NHL. I wouldn't mind taking a chance on him but he's no blue chip prospect or a "sure thing" to make an impact in the NHL.

Peter Sarno's a different case. He's just like Corey Locke. Sarno did lead the OHL in scoring, but he was never drafted high, and in both years he did it, be only made third team all star. He was drafted in like the 6th round. Perry, on the other hand, was drafted in the 1st round, he was considered a phenom in his younger years, and has been a good prospect all this and last year.

Seachd

11-27-2003, 02:20 PM

Peter Sarno's a different case. He's just like Corey Locke. Sarno did lead the OHL in scoring, but he was never drafted high, and in both years he did it, be only made third team all star. He was drafted in like the 6th round. Perry, on the other hand, was drafted in the 1st round, he was considered a phenom in his younger years, and has been a good prospect all this and last year.

Draft position has absolutely nothing to do with this. Perry is leading the OHL in scoring now, right after his draft year, and so did Sarno. No difference. The point is, like FB said, scoring in the juniors might look nice, and lead to hype, but it really means nothing.

Bobby Ryan Getzlaf

11-27-2003, 03:47 PM

Draft position has absolutely nothing to do with this. Perry is leading the OHL in scoring now, right after his draft year, and so did Sarno. No difference. The point is, like FB said, scoring in the juniors might look nice, and lead to hype, but it really means nothing.

It has more to do than you think. Sarno wasn't considered a major prospect. Like obviously, he was drafted in the 6th round, and wasn't even considered a first all star when he lead the league, let alone second. Perry was taken 28th overall in a deep draft. He's been considered a major prospect for quite a while. Like look at Locke, he lead the league last year, and was taken in the 4th round. I don't think he'll make much of an NHL impact though. Point is, Perry is considered a good prospect, not trash, and now he's doing so well he's leading the OHL.

FacelessButcher

11-27-2003, 06:33 PM

It has more to do than you think. Sarno wasn't considered a major prospect. Like obviously, he was drafted in the 6th round, and wasn't even considered a first all star when he lead the league, let alone second. Perry was taken 28th overall in a deep draft. He's been considered a major prospect for quite a while. Like look at Locke, he lead the league last year, and was taken in the 4th round. I don't think he'll make much of an NHL impact though. Point is, Perry is considered a good prospect, not trash, and now he's doing so well he's leading the OHL.
I agree with all of that I was just trying to establish leading this particular league in scoring was not the greatest of accomplishments, but where you were drafted only means so much for so long after a while you have to evaluate player solely on his own merits and his projected ability not just by the number he was drafted at. Perry is young and right on track at the moment if not exceeding expectations by a smidge so the glossy sunshine colored wrapping of first round pick has no reason to wear off anytime soon.

You say we're under-rating Perry aren't you under-rating Laraque? Here's my little rant for Laraque he was picked 31st overall(just 3 lower than Perry weaker draft but still not to far off) in the 1995 draft he has established himself as the best fighter in the league he adds size and grit and is one of the best players down low on the boards. He is one of the few fighters that actually can play defense and is capable of 20-30 points which is not to shabby for a heavy-weight fighter. He plays far better in big games and in the play-offs when you really need people to step up and can effectively throw big checks. His work in the community and approachable demeanor pay huge dividends in non-hockey communities the man will fill seats and be an ambassador for your team and sells tons of merchandise. Laraque has proven he is capable of all of this on an NHL level unlike Perry who could potentially bust this is why his value is high. Lowe said before that the two players he gets the most trade inquiries about are Laraque and Smyth.

Hank

11-28-2003, 06:04 PM

It's not that brutal we would not have too hard of a time getting a 2nd+3rd pick -or- 2 2nd's for Laraque.

That's the funniest thing I've read on the boards in quite a while.

Hank

11-29-2003, 05:27 AM

Actually it's not too far fetched if you compare it to value of Brashear or Worrell. Top enforcers have value, a 2nd and a 3rd might be slightly too much simply because of Laraque's recent slump, 2 years ago you would have gotten more than that for Laraque.

Worrell goes for Messier (and a second for Nedorsot) and all of a sudden Laraque is worth two 2nd round picks? I don't think so.

The Brashear deal was closer than that if you assume Hlavac was seen as a 30 goal scorer by Vancouver instead of waiver wire fodder. I'm guessing they placed his value somewhere between since he struggled pretty badly in Philly before the trade.

Jerky Leclerc

11-29-2003, 06:31 AM

No team is going to give multiple picks for Laraque. That is just insane. A goon is just that, a goon. There are plenty of guys in the AHL willing to get their face beaten for the chance to play in the NHL. Anybody remember Denny Lambert. I tell you, that guy lost every fight he fought in but I never saw the guy bleed. His face was like old leather.

In regards to Comrie, the Oilers would be dreaming if they think they can get alot for him. I see so many teams pass up a skilled guy like Zach Parise in the draft because of his size, I have to think that the GMs won't sell the farm to get a guy who is 5'9. Perry and a second is good value for Comrie considering the Flames only got Ruslan Zainulen for Marc Savard.

Hank

11-29-2003, 10:55 AM

Messier+Nedorost is pretty close to 2nd + 3rd.

2 years ago Laraques value would have been more than that.

Messier is no where close to a 3rd, he's a dime-a-dozen 4th liner. And Laraque's value 2 years ago has nothing to do with anything.

Randall Graves*

11-29-2003, 01:37 PM

Chistov for Comrie would hurt the ducks...the Ducks are strong down the middle and Pahlsson hasn't looked so out of place the last few games chipping in with a couple points the last few games with Prospal and Sykora he does the dirty work on the line and Jason Krog has four goals so far, I would like Comrie but not at the expense of Chistov.

look at it this way,by the time Stan is 23 he will more then likely have had more points then Comrie did by age 23 once Stan gets the first goal they will come alot easier and one thing you never question with Stan is his heart he always plays hard which is rare for the reputation the russian players get.

and the bagging on Smirnov as a "B" level prospect is hogwash he CAN be a top end player if he WANTS TO...and to think we could have drafted Frolov instead of Smirnov but the tools are there for Alexei he just need some passion.

We need a defensemen more then anything I'd like to get my hands on Hamrlik or Aucoin from the Isles a defensemen of their caliber with Carney would make me breathe much easier but the last thing we need now is more faces up front guys are finding chemistry (Fedorov,Mac/Rucchin,Lupul/Prospal Sykora) and for those that are saying Nieds is invisble...I disagree he has 9 points and does the dirty work I would like to see him more with Fedorov but when Leclerc comes back I think the Rucchin/Niedermayer/Leclerc line will carry us like it did last season, in terms of grit and desire it would also move Lupul with Fedorov and allow Mac to slide down and Anchor the Prospal/Sykora line or at the very least give us tremendous top 6 depth with three lines rolling out 1st/2nd line talent and in the playoffs that is very important.

IMO the forward depth on this team with Leclerc back healthy is as good as any teams lines 1-4 as long as Ward,Pahlsson and Krog keep playing well.

lux_interior

11-29-2003, 01:44 PM

Randall Graves*

11-29-2003, 01:52 PM

It's not that brutal we would not have too hard of a time getting a 2nd+3rd pick -or- 2 2nd's for Laraque. You paid exactly 2 2nd picks for Perry just a few months ago but the fact that Perry has been playing above expectations

He isn't playing above expectations in Bryan Murrays mind who decided to trade up and get him for everytime you guys say we are underrated Laraque you guys are seriously underrated Perry...I love Laraque but theres no place for him on this team.

Scoring lead a third of the way through the season in the OHL is not that big of a deal it's not the toughest of leagues and the season is not yet done he could go into a scoring slump or someone could beat him out.

I agree it doesn't mean much right now but he's doing it on a very good team and is LEADING that very good team, after Nash left when he was drafted Perry had a first half slump...his stock fell the second half he tore up the league proving he could play without Nash and mind you I was not a big fan of drafting Perry that high at all I rather have seen the Ducks take Pushkarov but after seeing a bit of Perry he has some very good NHL tools.

We have a player named Peter Sarno who finished with the scoring lead twice in the OHL and will be lucky if he ever becomes anything better than a 4th liner PETER SARNO BIO (http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/player_bio.asp?player_id=1158&hubname=EDM).

I find it embarrassing you even compare these two Perry plays a little defense and has a good work ethic they are not even similar style of players this comparison is an insult to Perry.

If he had a scoring lead in the AHL or the Russian Super League I would be impressed but it's too early to say with any certainty if he will make the NHL. I wouldn't mind taking a chance on him but he's no blue chip prospect or a "sure thing" to make an impact in the NHL.

Correction he is a blue chip prospect with 2nd line potential who plays hard everynight when he puts on weight he will be an effective NHL player.

and for whoever called Getzlaf a "B" level prospect :joker: he's tearing up the junior league once again and the fact he was the last cut on a team with fairly good forward depth says alot...he almost beat out Lupul and would have had the ducks not had the option of sending him back to Calgary, Ryan has first line potential and is Steve Rucchin with more offensive potential thats exactly who he reminds me of and Steve didn't turn out to bad did he?

I wonder if the Oilers would be interested in Tim Brent, he's having a very good year with 2nd line potential who is similar to Rucchin...you guys really underestimate the forward depth of this franchise it has come a very long way.

Randall Graves*

11-29-2003, 01:58 PM

Can you say run on sentence?

j/k you make some good points. Defenseman is the number one priority. But it's not easy to get an Aucoin or Hamrlik from a team. YOu have to give something to get something.

Also, yes Smirnov just has to want to be a great player. But that was the case with Daigle, and well...

But I'm not ready to give up on Smirnov.

I like Pahlsson as a player. He is solid defensively, good on draws, and complements the better offensive players well. Sort of like (to a lesser degree obviously) Rucchin with Selanne and Kariya. Now if he could only learn to finish. That is the one big weakness in his game. But he is a real solid 3rd line center.

Some nights I was impressed with Smirnov others I was disappointed I think he could be a really good player and getting an Aucoin or Hamrlik would probley cost this team Sauer/Vish/Popovic,Smirnov/Brent/Perry and possibley a #1 or 2 pick the Isles are in cost cutting mode but the guy that intrigues me most is Peca who happens to be on the block.

Jerky Leclerc

11-29-2003, 02:06 PM

Smirnov is a 5 year project. And from my count, we are only in year two. Give the kid some time. Once he learns how to use his big frame, this kid is going to be a good NHL player.

Randall Graves*

11-29-2003, 02:13 PM

Heres a new Comrie rumor from the D/C board from someone who found it on an Oiler message board...don't shoot the messenger.
"Apparently Mike Comrie is in Anaheim undergoing a physical for the Mighty Ducks. And I guess the rumor is that what will happen is the Ducks will get Comrie's rights and the Oilers will end up getting draft picks. I thought that it was stupid when I was told this, nobody for Mike Comrie, but, in the end, I suppose that I wouldn't be suprised. Not by this organization. I was skeptical, and still am, when I heard about the deal, but I'm not as skeptical that Comrie is in Anaheim taking the team physical. We'll have to see what really happens when the deal is finalized. Anyhoo... this is just food for thought, we'll hear what's happened for sure in the next couple of days

interesting to say the least

Let me reiterate this rumor has no credible source and should be treated as such. Please do not spread any unsubstantiated rumors at HF.

Jerky Leclerc

Seachd

11-29-2003, 02:54 PM

I know which site that came from, and I wouldn't get too worked up about it. You see that stuff all the time there. And I found this on another board:

"A fairly reliable source told me that Comrie, Winter and Lowe are/have going/gone somewhere outside of Edmonton (Vancouver, or Calgary or Banff or something) for a weekend to give one last shot at contract negotiations and that Lowe's pretty optimistic about the offer he has for Comrie."

Snap Wilson

11-29-2003, 03:21 PM

Randall Graves*

11-29-2003, 04:03 PM

Seachd

11-29-2003, 04:07 PM

Oilfan.com isn't very reliable either unless its posted by 'Bryne"

I know it's not. None of them are. But you can't really believe one before the other.

Anyway, on HNIC, John Davidson said that he doesn't think Comrie will be going to Anaheim or LA, because they don't want to give up what Lowe wants.

EDIT: I just read another post that said it was Eric Duhatschek who said the only reason Comrie isn't a Duck or a King, is that they aren't willing to give up Lupul or Frolov. I didn't see it myself, so I'm going on second hand info here.

Jerky Leclerc

11-29-2003, 04:12 PM

I know it's not. None of them are. But you can't really believe one before the other.

Anyway, on HNIC, John Davidson said that he doesn't think Comrie will be going to Anaheim or LA, because they don't want to give up what Lowe wants.

Any time someone posts a rumor without a source, that is a redlight. It doesn't matter where the rumor comes from but how it is presented. "A fairly reliable source" is not a credible source.

Seachd

11-29-2003, 04:17 PM

Any time someone posts a rumor without a source, that is a redlight. It doesn't matter where the rumor comes from but how it is presented. "A fairly reliable source" is not a credible source.

Exactly. That was my point. If you're going to put any stock into the one that starts "Apparently, Mike Comrie is...", then you'd have no problem seeing something in "A fairly reliable source..."

One is just as reliable as the other - not at all.

FacelessButcher

11-29-2003, 05:27 PM

I find it embarrassing you even compare these two Perry plays a little defense and has a good work ethic they are not even similar style of players this comparison is an insult to Perry.
It just reinforces my point that leading OHL scoring is no big deal in that Sarno did it twice, if a piece of crap like him can do it a "blue-chip" prospect like Perry should be able to do it no problem, right? It is not to demonstrate skill level but ease of the task for which people seem to be heaping praise on him for it saying "See! See! I told you he will be great. Dumb Oiler fans know nothing of his greatness."(yes, a gross exageration) when it will take more than that to establish himself as a top level prospect. All I am saying is lets wait and see, he could be very good but its far too early to say with any definity as to whether or not that is the case.

hunter orange

11-29-2003, 08:18 PM

If there's no Lupul, no Chitov, and no Getzlaf coming back to Edm, I say Lowe seriously consider dismissing Anaheim as a real suitor for Comrie. If Comrie can't fetch any of those guys...forget it. Perry and a 2nd? No way...not for Comrie.

...there is, however, one other possibility I would strongly consider if I were Lowe (and Anaheim was willing to offer it):

Comrie ----- for ----- Vishnevsky & Perry

Seachd

11-30-2003, 09:17 AM

There are goons and then there are enforcers. Goons can't do anything but fight, enforcers can fight but also play regular shift.

Finally! Someone else who recognizes this. I swear, I posted a thread on goons vs. enforcers a couple years ago, and no one had a clue what I was talking about. It bothers me to no end when people call Laraque a goon. It couldn't be further from the truth. Goons have a tendency to take lots of penalties, many of them stupid. Laraque doesn't do that. The vast majority of his penalties are from fights.

FacelessButcher

12-04-2003, 09:06 AM

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam031204/nhl_ana1-sun.html
Corey Perry + 1st pick for Comrie

is the latest rumour making the rounds right now it was reported on team 1200 in Ottawa.

Pwnasaurus

12-04-2003, 09:53 AM

Where in the article does it state a 1st rounder AND Perry...?

It says Perry was a 1st rounder last year.

Kevin Forbes

12-04-2003, 10:02 AM

One scenario being bandied about has Comrie going to the Mighty Ducks in exchange for Perry, the OHL's scoring leader and a first-round pick in last June's NHL entry draft.

it's a poorly constructed sentence, but the "and" is still in reference to Perry

Perry, the OHL's scoring leader + Perry, a first-round pick in last June's NHL entry draft is what it means to say

FacelessButcher

12-04-2003, 10:21 AM

it's a poorly constructed sentence, but the "and" is still in reference to Perry

Perry, the OHL's scoring leader + Perry, a first-round pick in last June's NHL entry draft is what it means to say
Your correct, it was still on the radio in Ottawa in the morning though. The article still puts a little bit more mustard behind the rumour.

soya_sauce_chicken

12-04-2003, 10:46 AM

well whatever this trade is.. i wonder how soon it's going to be done.. it appears that the ducks are the only team comrie and the oilers are looking into..

Spankatola Jamnuts*

12-04-2003, 11:07 AM

I think Nashville is mildly interested in Comrie but they're streaking right now.

Randall Graves*

12-04-2003, 08:09 PM

Something has to be done to wake this team up that effort in Detroit was disgusting. i'd rather have a legit top 2 defensemen then Comrie right now, but maybe Comries style of play would wake up this team.

How can a team with this much offensive talent score 2 goals a game?

Spankatola Jamnuts*

12-04-2003, 08:11 PM

Wrong mix of talent maybe. The guys are all skill and passing. The system doesn't support that well unless you're passing is Detroit-caliber never-miss-a-pass type stuff.

Leclerc can't come back soon enough.

lux_interior

12-04-2003, 08:44 PM

I think Nashville is mildly interested in Comrie but they're streaking right now.

Yeah, I've heard that's making a comeback now. It was really popular in the 70's. :rolly:

I doubt Nashville will acquire Comrie.

mtyduk8

12-05-2003, 04:15 AM

http://www.canoe.ca/EdmontonSports/es.es-12-05-0100.html

As the saying goes, if it walks like a Mighty Duck and it talks like a Mighty Duck, it's probably a Mighty Duck.

Bryan Murray agrees with the conventional wisdom of the old axiom as it applies to life in general, and he's likewise convinced in the specific case of Mike Comrie, who is waiting for Edmonton Oilers GM Kevin Lowe to trade him.

Murray, the GM of the Anaheim Mighty Ducks, is interested in Comrie, and he's told Lowe so. He believes he has roster players and quality prospects who appeal to Lowe.

Finally, Anaheim is one of a handful of teams Comrie and agent Ritch Winter have identified as destinations of interest and, like it or not, they have a say because any team trading for Comrie will have to sit down with Winter to get a contract done.

Comrie walks like a Mighty Duck and talks like a Mighty Duck, all right, and Murray would like to see him in Anaheim silks, but Lowe has to pick up the telephone to make that happen.

Slats432

12-05-2003, 05:05 AM

Where in the article does it state a 1st rounder AND Perry...?

It says Perry was a 1st rounder last year.

Two radio stations this morning in Edmonton suggested the rumor was Perry and a 1st rounder.

Seachd

12-05-2003, 06:05 AM

Then there's this one by Dan Barnes, who likes the idea of Perry and a 1st, and says the Oilers rejected a one-for-one deal for Lupul:

http://canada.com/edmonton/edmontonjournal/columnists/story.asp?id=E16B70F3-E588-40D2-91B4-2BE4455E7AC0

Lyons71

12-05-2003, 08:34 AM

Why is Comrie holding out in the first place? (Just to know what this whole deal is about)

elphy101

12-05-2003, 09:09 AM

Why is Comrie holding out in the first place? (Just to know what this whole deal is about)

No one really knows in Edmonton. It's all speculation. The one thing that seems to be agreed is that it's not about money.

The three main themes seem to be

1. Edmonton Management doesn't appreciate/respect me enough. Lowe ripped him after the playoffs and hurt his feelings during the contract negotiations.

2. Philosophical differences with the coach Mactavish.

3. He can't stand playing in his hometown. He can't escape. In Edmonton, he's in the spotlight 24/7. My guess is that this is a major part of it.

elphy101

12-05-2003, 09:11 AM

Hank

12-05-2003, 09:44 AM

Would this work from a Ducks perspective.

To Anaheim
Comrie
Rita
3rd round pick

To Edmonton
Perry
Vishnevski
1st round pick

I think that would be the ideally trade for the Oilers. Not sure about Anaheim though. Rita will be a player if given the opportunity.

The Ducks have no need for Rita and aren't looking to move Vishnevski at this point. Take both of them out of the mix.

soya_sauce_chicken

12-05-2003, 10:09 AM

Spankatola Jamnuts*

12-05-2003, 10:11 AM

2. Philosophical differences with the coach Mactavish.

Can you expand on that?

AVE MAN

12-05-2003, 10:24 AM

wow.. i really hope the ducks don't do what is stated there..
Comrie for Perry and McDonald...

Apparantely Lowe has his choice of either Mcdonald & Perry or ANA's 2004 first round pick & Perry. Speculation is if the oilers continue to slide the will take Mcdonald, if they turn it around they will take the first round pick.
Mcdonald's concussion history scares lowe a little and the oilers would prefer the #1 pick. Personally I think Kevin Lowe, who is a very Savvy trading partner, could have already made this deal if he wanted to. He obviously has something else up his sleeve.
My personal opinion is he'll end up taking a deal with Mad Mike & the islanders. All the leaks in the public about an ANA deal may be causing the price to go up. Very similar to what Lowe did last year before the trade deadline with Niinimaa. Reports in the paper had Ninnimaa going to Toronto for Tucker, and then Milbury gave the oilers the much better deal in Isbister and Torres(who Milbury originally didn't want to give up). Don't be suprised if something similar happens this time round!

elphy101

12-05-2003, 10:39 AM

Can you expand on that?

Not really, don't know much more than that. One of the reoccuring themes was that Comrie and MacT don't see eye to eye. I have no idea on specifics/details.

Spankatola Jamnuts*

12-05-2003, 10:41 AM

Most of the leaks on this one seem to coming from Bryan Murray. He's obviously trying to crank up the media pressure on Lowe so that he can get what he wants.

Shizuka

12-05-2003, 11:42 AM

I still don't see how the Ducks make sense as a trading partner, you guys are set at C so why trade for Comrie? You are also conference rivals and from the looks of it, a big obstacle in the playoff race (the West is very tight). Beyond that, the returns being reported and proposed, from an Oiler fan's standpoint, are poor. Perry and a 1st for Comrie would have most Edmonton fans up in arms, quite frankly. Yes, some guys are overvaluing Comrie, but at the same time Anaheim fans seem to want to give up nothing to get something. It doesn't work that way. Regardless, I still don't see how a Ducks deal makes sense.

On the Perry + 1st for Comrie scenario: Murray would come away a genius for ripping off the Oilers, and people in Edmonton would be calling for Lowe's head. If Murray doesn't want to part with Chistov, or Getzlaf, or Vishnevski, I hope Lowe looks elsewhere for a deal. Maybe that's why he hasn't been speaking to Murray? The offer is lukewarm.

Spankatola Jamnuts*

12-05-2003, 12:51 PM

It makes sense because we have Pahlsson centering Prospal and Sykora. Comrie would be a huge upgrade there. You can never be too deep at center anway.

Randall Graves*

12-05-2003, 01:22 PM

Would this work from a Ducks perspective.

To Anaheim
Comrie
Rita
3rd round pick

To Edmonton
Perry
Vishnevski
1st round pick

I think that would be the ideally trade for the Oilers. Not sure about Anaheim though. Rita will be a player if given the opportunity.I can only see Vishnevski going if there is a plan in place to bring in another good defensemen.

best case Scenario for the Ducks:They get Comrie without losing a pro roster player, wait for Leclerc to come back then trade one of the 10 quality roster forwards(fedorov,Sykora,Prospal,Rucchin,Nieds,Lecl erc,Lupul,Chistov,Comrie,McDonald) and deal one of Simpson,Popovic,Vishnevski or Sauer to bring in a legit top 2 defensemen.

as I said thats best case but to get comrie we could likely lose two good rostered players.

Randall Graves*

12-05-2003, 01:26 PM

My personal opinion is he'll end up taking a deal with Mad Mike & the islanders. All the leaks in the public about an ANA deal may be causing the price to go up. Very similar to what Lowe did last year before the trade deadline with Niinimaa. Reports in the paper had Ninnimaa going to Toronto for Tucker, and then Milbury gave the oilers the much better deal in Isbister and Torres(who Milbury originally didn't want to give up). Don't be suprised if something similar happens this time round!
The only way Comrie goes to the Islanders is if he wants to play there...many are forgetting no one will make a deal for him until Comrie agrees to go to that city.

soya_sauce_chicken

12-05-2003, 01:26 PM

Apparantely Lowe has his choice of either Mcdonald & Perry or ANA's 2004 first round pick & Perry. Speculation is if the oilers continue to slide the will take Mcdonald, if they turn it around they will take the first round pick.
Mcdonald's concussion history scares lowe a little and the oilers would prefer the #1 pick. Personally I think Kevin Lowe, who is a very Savvy trading partner, could have already made this deal if he wanted to. He obviously has something else up his sleeve.
My personal opinion is he'll end up taking a deal with Mad Mike & the islanders. All the leaks in the public about an ANA deal may be causing the price to go up. Very similar to what Lowe did last year before the trade deadline with Niinimaa. Reports in the paper had Ninnimaa going to Toronto for Tucker, and then Milbury gave the oilers the much better deal in Isbister and Torres(who Milbury originally didn't want to give up). Don't be suprised if something similar happens this time round!
i agree in that his concussions could take a factor, but he has been playing fairly well with fedorov and i don't want to see the Ducks get rid of him and Perry for Comrie.. what get's me is that they were somewhat willing to do a trade straight up for Lupul...

S.S. Giggy

12-05-2003, 01:30 PM

soya_sauce_chicken

12-05-2003, 01:40 PM

how about this deal..
To Edmonton:
Perry
McDonald
draft

Anaheim Gets
Comrie
Hemsky

i'd do that one...

Hank

12-05-2003, 01:59 PM

Apparantely Lowe has his choice of either Mcdonald & Perry or ANA's 2004 first round pick & Perry.

I'd rather do the Perry/McDonald deal from the Ducks standpoint. McDonald is a good player but he's small so losing him offsets getting Comrie who is also small. Then with the 1st the Ducks retain the ability to draft a stud defenseman next year... something we need far worse than we need McDonald.

Kevin Forbes

12-05-2003, 02:33 PM

how about this deal..
To Edmonton:
Perry
McDonald
draft

Anaheim Gets
Comrie
Hemsky

i'd do that one...

keep dreaming
even I know that's not even close to be even

soya_sauce_chicken

12-05-2003, 02:42 PM

keep dreaming
even I know that's not even close to be even
hehhehee.. i know.. but imagine the possibilities...

McDonald19

12-05-2003, 03:12 PM

I'd rather do the Perry/McDonald deal from the Ducks standpoint. McDonald is a good player but he's small so losing him offsets getting Comrie who is also small. Then with the 1st the Ducks retain the ability to draft a stud defenseman next year... something we need far worse than we need McDonald.

There wont be any "stud" defensmen available in the 15-30 draft spots in the first round. Assuming we make the playoffs.

Spankatola Jamnuts*

12-05-2003, 09:45 PM

Murray's latest quotes (http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-duckrep6dec06,1,1702812.story?coll=la-headlines-sports):

This is the cruelest part, for the kids to have their names mentioned in these rumors," Murray said. "I don't know where [Perry's name] came from. We haven't mentioned names. They have talked about a variety of situations, and that's all."

Murray's a liar, so take this with a grain of salt. He's also planning to scout Cincinnati in person:

We're going to look at some of those kids there in the fashion that some of them may be ready," he said.

"If our players are not good enough now or they're not playing hard enough that means we've got to do something to make us better."

I agree. Do something.

Shizuka

12-06-2003, 01:00 PM

It makes sense because we have Pahlsson centering Prospal and Sykora. Comrie would be a huge upgrade there. You can never be too deep at center anway.

Ok...perhaps I missed something, but that still leaves you with Fedorov, Rucchin, Macdonald, and Niedermayer does it not? I might have missed line combinations from the pages of speculation.

Spankatola Jamnuts*

12-06-2003, 01:11 PM

McDonald and Niedermayer both play on the wing, McDonald with Fedorov and Nieds with Rucchin. McDonald also would be an upgrade over Pahlsson too, but he has chemistry with Fedorov. Niedermayer hasn't played center in a long time as far as I know.

Jshibley

12-06-2003, 01:31 PM

There wont be any "stud" defensmen available in the 15-30 draft spots in the first round. Assuming we make the playoffs.

Trading up for this guy would be very nice. :)

http://www.tigershockey.com/profiles/cam_barker

Ducksfan2035

12-06-2003, 06:45 PM

hes a defensemen thats played 31 total games wit 26 points so far?...to me thats not bad for a defensemen..lol

Kevin Forbes

12-06-2003, 07:21 PM

Ok...perhaps I missed something, but that still leaves you with Fedorov, Rucchin, Macdonald, and Niedermayer does it not? I might have missed line combinations from the pages of speculation.
McDonald and Niedermayer are used on the wing and are much more effective there
McDonald doesn't have the size to be a good centre and Niedermayer is better used in front of the net and in the corners
Krog is out 4th line centre and he handles it well, by giving his all and winning faceoffs

Randall Graves*

12-06-2003, 07:43 PM

Seachd

12-06-2003, 08:14 PM

ESPN reports the following package.

To Oilers:Chistov,Vishnevski
TO Ducks: Comrie

god i hope BM isn't that stupid.

Was this rumour on their site, or TV, or radio? That would leave the Oilers with a ton of LWers, but it's definitely good value.

Hank

12-06-2003, 08:19 PM

There wont be any "stud" defensmen available in the 15-30 draft spots in the first round.

That's just a dumb statement. I'd add a Barret Jackman (17th) or a Jiri Fischer (25th) to the system in a heartbeat.

FacelessButcher

12-06-2003, 08:23 PM

ESPN reports the following package.

To Oilers:Chistov,Vishnevski
TO Ducks: Comrie

god i hope BM isn't that stupid.

The source originated from the Edmonton Sun, not ESPN. And the package is pure speculation.

Jerky Leclerc Um I can't find the article with this speculation on the Edmonton Sun's web page do you have a link?

P.S. All you filthy Ducks get your disease ridden wings off Cam he shall become Oiler property :D .....hopefully :(.

Jerky Leclerc

12-06-2003, 08:36 PM

Um I can't find the article with this speculation on the Edmonton Sun's web page do you have a link?

P.S. All you filthy Ducks get your disease ridden wings off Cam he shall become Oiler property :D .....hopefully :(.

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam031205/nhl_edm1-sun.html

Hank

12-06-2003, 08:44 PM

Trading up for this guy would be very nice. :)

http://www.tigershockey.com/profiles/cam_barker

Barker is a top 5 pick at this point so I doubt that will happen but we can hope.

Just like every year there are a bunch of guys that could be the stud we need and you never know how guys will fall (eg Getzlaf).

FacelessButcher

12-06-2003, 08:47 PM

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam031205/nhl_edm1-sun.html
I already read this-

"Even if Murray sticks to his guns, if Lowe has to get a roster player back, left-winger Stanislav Chistov, a fireplug at five-foot-nine and 195 pounds, and defenceman Vitaly Vishnevski meet that requirement."

Are you referring to this? The guy is just stating that these are players on the Ducks roster that could be involved in getting Comrie. He's not saying this is the deal, if Murray put that on the table I will walk over to Kevin Lowe's house right now with pitch fork and torch in hand and get him to sign it.

Randall Graves*

12-06-2003, 08:49 PM

Was this rumour on their site, or TV, or radio? That would leave the Oilers with a ton of LWers, but it's definitely good value.
It was on the Ducks ESPN page via the Ottawa sun.

McDonald19

12-06-2003, 09:45 PM

That's just a dumb statement. I'd add a Barret Jackman (17th) or a Jiri Fischer (25th) to the system in a heartbeat.

Wow...2 examples of defensemen drafted 15-30 that are good NHLers...want 2 examples of defensmen drafted 15-30 that didn't make it big?...ok then...how about Nikos Tselios Carolina 1997 22nd overall...2 nhl games so far..career minor leaguer...same draft year Kevin Grimes 26th overall Colorado..no NHL games..currently ECHL...want a couple more examples...Mario Larocque Tampa Bay 1996 16th overall...5 NHL games..currently ECHL...same year Matthieu Descoteaux Edmonton 19th overall 5 NHL games, Jeff Brown NY Rangers no NHL games...

If you go look in the the 1st rounds of the last 5-10 years about half of the defensmen drafted 15-30th made it as decent NHLers...

So you are saying you would rather have a 50% chance that the Ducks will draft a top 4 defensmen who will play in the NHL in 3-5 years than have Andy McDonald helping the team right now???

Also if you look at last years draft the three "stud" defensmen were Ryan Suter, Braydon Coburn, and Dion Phaneuf who were drafted 7th-9th overall.

Spankatola Jamnuts*

12-06-2003, 11:13 PM

You could use that argument to trade every low 1st round pick for an established player. The success rate for low 1st round defenseman isn't any different for low 1st round forwards.

mmbt

12-07-2003, 08:17 AM

You could use that argument to trade every low 1st round pick for an established player. The success rate for low 1st round defenseman isn't any different for low 1st round forwards.

But you can't trade a low 1st rounder for an established player ... after all, according to Edmonton fans, players picked low in the 1st round are junk.

Hank

12-07-2003, 08:18 AM

If you go look in the the 1st rounds of the last 5-10 years about half of the defensmen drafted 15-30th made it as decent NHLers...

So we've gone from NO stud defensemen to half taken are at least good... that was my point. And the same failure rate applies to 1st round goalies and forwards... the draft is a crap shoot and you can't make a blanket statement like you did.

Also if you look at last years draft the three "stud" defensmen were Ryan Suter, Braydon Coburn, and Dion Phaneuf who were drafted 7th-9th overall.

That's one year and each draft has different strengths and weaknesses. 1998 is an example of the opposite where stud D-men were taken well into the 2nd round.

Spankatola Jamnuts*

12-07-2003, 08:42 AM

But you can't trade a low 1st rounder for an established player ... after all, according to Edmonton fans, players picked low in the 1st round are junk.
Edmonton fans are getting a little frantic.

FacelessButcher

12-07-2003, 09:06 AM

But you can't trade a low 1st rounder for an established player ... after all, according to Edmonton fans, players picked low in the 1st round are junk.
huh?

McDonald19

12-07-2003, 02:01 PM

So we've gone from NO stud defensemen to half taken are at least good... that was my point. And the same failure rate applies to 1st round goalies and forwards... the draft is a crap shoot and you can't make a blanket statement like you did.

That's one year and each draft has different strengths and weaknesses. 1998 is an example of the opposite where stud D-men were taken well into the 2nd round.

Well if we agree that the draft is a crap shoot...then if we were dealing with that trade proposal, why not just keep Andy McDonald, since he is an established player scoring points...and trade the first rounder?

Hank

12-07-2003, 04:52 PM

Well if we agree that the draft is a crap shoot...then if we were dealing with that trade proposal, why not just keep Andy McDonald, since he is an established player scoring points...and trade the first rounder?

Because he's a small forward that's not as talented as Comrie. Having both Comrie and McDonald as well as Chistov and Krog, etc compounds the problem of being too small.

With the 1st rounder the HOPE is you hit a home run. Might not happen but I like the chances since the Ducks do a decent job drafting. And its not like McDonald with his soft head isn't a risk in his own way.