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discostu 11-25-2003, 12:07 PM It seems like everyone's got a different opinion on what the Sens shoudl be doing, so I thought I'd try and get a pulse on what everyone's opinion are via a poll.
The choices are:
Do Nothing - This is a good team, and all they need is time to get them out of this funk
Sit Players - Call guys up from the minors, and let any player that doesn't give 100% sit the next game to send the message.
Get Rid of Lalime - He's not getting it done. Go out and upgrade while he still has value. This option includes upgrading externally (i.e. Kolzig, etc.) or replacing him internally (Prusek or Emery)
Make a Minor Trade - Make a trade involving some of our supporting players (Schastlivy, Pothier, White, etc.)
Make a Major Trade - Make a trade involving a more core player (Bonk, Havlat, Rachunek, etc.)
Fire Martin - Get rid of Martin. The players aren't responding anymore.
Other?
Volchenkov 11-25-2003, 12:12 PM I say make a minor trade. Keep Lalime unless a *really* good deal comes along, which is very unlikely.
Hossa 11-25-2003, 12:14 PM Well, here's my original response. My mind tends to flutter, but it hasn't changed yet.
I wouldn't deal Lalime. He's been fantastic in the playoffs, something contenders like Philadelphia, Vancouver, Colorado, Dallas and to a lesser extent the Blues (Osgood lately) can't say right now.
The guys that would be potential replacements are Olaf Kolzig, Curtis Joseph or somebody from within basically. Prusek is a good goalie, but I'd rather give him a string of starts and see if he runs with it, before dealing Lalime. If we deal Lalime and cross our fingers that Emery or Prusek thrives, we are taking a major risk. Also, I'd say Joseph is a downgrade at this point, and Kolzig could be seen as a downgrade also.
As for the other options, there is no fire Martin option in the poll, and while I don't believe we should can him, the idea tossed around about putting him in the front office, and making Larry Robinson the coach, is a great idea if you ask me.
I voted for the make a trade option. But, also not a major one. Don't deal Rachunek, don't deal Havlat, don't deal Phillips. I'd love to deal Bonk for Jeff O'Neill, but that's just a proposal. White could be expendable, but he's not a throw-away type of player. I would like to never see Van allen again, even if I respect the guy. Meaning, if we can get something for Schastlivy, I wouldn't mind. I like the guy, but he's not doing enough to warrant ice time. Don't change the chemistry drastically, and don't make a panic move (like Havlat for Brind'amour or something), but rather the type of move that would be considered at any time, just looks more attractive now.
discostu 11-25-2003, 12:15 PM I chose "major trade".
I think the time frame for the players to solve this problem on their own has passed, and something more severe needs to be done.
I also think that moving a guy like Schastlivy, White, etc. won't achieve much. It won't have any real effect in the dressing room, with many players just assuming that they are immune, which is why a more significant piece of this team will need to be moved, IMO.
Hossa 11-25-2003, 12:33 PM I chose "major trade".
I think the time frame for the players to solve this problem on their own has passed, and something more severe needs to be done.
I also think that moving a guy like Schastlivy, White, etc. won't achieve much. It won't have any real effect in the dressing room, with many players just assuming that they are immune, which is why a more significant piece of this team will need to be moved, IMO.
If you ask me, that piece is Bonk. It sends the message that statistics aren't all that is necessary. Ya, he's got a point a game production, but he doesn't play well at even strength. I don't buy that he is making HOssa better, Hossa has clicked with many people. Hell, last year he played and played well with Van Allen as his center.
Furthermore, this is a player who makes a lot of money, and a player who is supposed to be a core player. Dealing Havlat will be a mistake. It seems like people are getting restless, but unlike Bonk, Havlat could still improve, a lot.
gbl1p 11-25-2003, 01:10 PM I voted for "Start sitting players". Though this team is desperate need of a shake-up, I think it's still a little pre-mature to do anything real drastic. This continues thru X-mas, and thats a whole different ball game, mind you. There are plenty of desirable parts in the league that would fit this team nicely, and this is even more attractive at a point when the team is down like they are now. I'll even say if the right deal comes along (ala. landing an O'Neil, a Cole, some power...POWER!) then it could be very well worthwhile. But lets see the team bounce back a little - and they will. Even when they get rolling again, a little shake up would likely be healthy. Too many useless spare parts, and as Hossa said, Van Allen is DONE (with all due respect to Shaun). We need to replace him! At this point, I think Schastlivy is at a stage where his confidence cannot be pieced together in Ottawa. It's too bad for us, because we'll take the hit. I'm sure Schast will find his game at one point, and let's hope for the Sens sake it doesn't turn out to be another Demitra situation. Bottom line is that his expiry date was long ago, and he won't be picking it up in Ottawa. I'll admit to "Never say never", but in light of this situation we need to shed all the dead weight, even if its not for much return. Best of luck to him.
I think the solution is within the organization, though I have a small, but growing concern in the back of my head towards our Coach. Perhaps Sensens enlightenment? Can't argue that it's ultimately in the coaches hands to steer this ship. I'd like to see things work out, but I think we're all itching to see someone behind the bench conveying a little more blatent passion and emotion.
My 2 cents...
Edit: As a starter I DONT think it was the right message to send Vermette down! I would have sent Spezza down before him. Though, with the Vermette move done, you could possibly consider that as this type of message/approach: "Guys. We've just sent one of the hardest working players on the team down. The only guy who seemingly gave a *****. Look at how disappointed he is! Don't make us do this again."
sensens 11-25-2003, 01:18 PM While my personal dislike of Martin remains, I chose 'sit players'. I think this is something that really should have been done a LONG time ago now, and i will concede that this team has been good enough (with Martin at the helm) to deserve a chance to redeem itself from within by trying this. And by benchings, I mean guys like Redden, Chara, Havlat, Bonk, & Spezza too... anyone who's dogging it out there.
It's worth remembering that, while this was a President's Trophy winning team last year, they still have a winning record and a top-5 offense this year - in spite of all of these recent issues. Lalime's numbers aren't terrible, and their goal differential is still very good. What's missing are the intangibles - and I think that, if benching some players doesn't create a sense of urgency and an appropriate response from the players, then maybe it's finally time to seriously consider whether the man at the helm is the right man.
sensens 11-25-2003, 01:25 PM I DONT think it was the right message to send Vermette down! I would have sent Spezza down before him. Though, with the Vermette move done, you could possibly consider that as this type of message/approach: "Guys. We've just sent one of the hardest working players on the team down. The only guy who seemingly gave a *****. Look at how disappointed he is! Don't make us do this again."
BANG ON.
I understand the desire to start bringing up some Binghamton players to make an impact (in fact, I 100% agree with it), but the message would have been FAR more clear if it had been Spezza sent down.
I realize that Vermette hasn't exactly lit it up, but what's being questioned right now isn't point production... it's heart and work ethic. I've been very impressed with Vermette this season, and I can only hope that Muckler or someone sat down with him before they sent him down to explain why he was the one sacrificing for the team's general lack of consistent effort or determination.
thinkwild 11-25-2003, 01:49 PM Another option not presented was: Hard work and renewed commitment to defense.
I dont think a shakeup is needed. It suggests either that:
- an easy answer is available,
- the trade will work, and
- that the problems cant be overcome. I see no reason to believe the problems cant be overcome and desperate measures are required. I know the players have it in them. We've seen it. If the team wasnt able to dominate this year, didnt show that it still had it, had lost something, perhaps. But right now it seems an obvious mental thing. A Stanley cup hangover from a final four team.
If your little brothers team joined your rec league, after your team had success last year similar to the Sens, you wouldnt be showing a lot of respect to his team this early in the season. When your defenseman was in a one-on-one battle, you wouldnt wait to cover until he won, you would boldly adventure forward on offense assuming he would win and safe play wouldnt be the mindset. Using the gifted offense everyone has been talking about would be.
This is where I see the Sens at now. What won for them last year was a commitment to team defense. From which they could catapult an explosive offensive attack. And 'Trap' the other team in their own end. The commitment to defense hasnt been there this year.
And so a quandary. The complaint has been boring trap hockey. Why shouldnt the Sens just open it up and run'n gun. Well, without the commitment to defense in this league, it seems we are just another team.
So, boring, defensive trap hockey. With commitment. Thats my asnwer.
Why do Sens play well against good teams and poor against bad teams?
I say because they respect the good teams. And they commit to defense.
There will very likely be some incredible acquistion options available this year if we have an owner who will do whatever it takes to win. Patience may well get us a very good deal later in the season.
I dont think you can browbeat their confidence back in. They must earn it back by working hard. Personnel decisions should wait until we are out of the slump.
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