Grades

The Wings have a seriously scary case of Jeckyl and Hyde right now. After playing a pretty good two weeks on the road (mostly), they return home and get spanked by the worst team in the league.

We've lost to several very shaky teams: Washington, Columbus, Nashville (twice), Pittsburg, Montreal, the Rangers.

And some good teams: St. Louis, Vancouver,

Seriously, we lost to St. Louis. At home. That never happens.
We've lost to Nashville twice. We haven't beat an Eastern Conference team since opening night.
We beat Chicago twice, which is weird.

Overall, we're 11-9-2.
We've blown third period multi-goal leads against Nashville, Edmonton (salvaged a tie), Chicago (managed to win), and Pittsburg.

We've allowed four goals or more to Pittsburg, Nashville (2x), St. Louis, Edmonton, Vancouver and Washington.

So what's the deal?
Well, injuries (Hatcher, Zetterberg, Hasek, Whitney and McCarty have all missed considerable time) have played a big role in the struggles and
depleted our depth, as evidenced by our 4th line of MARK MOWERS, DARRYL BOOTLAND, and JAMIE RIVERS. (As bad as that looks, they've
looked better than our actual NHL lines at times)
But Colorado has faced injuries, and they seem to be doing alright.

GOALTENDING (C)

Goaltending is obviously a problem.
HASEK (B-)Hasek has posted good numbers (7-3-1, 2.09, .914). But he's looked shaky at times. And this constant groin injury thing doesn't seem
very assuring. Still, if he gets healthy, he looks ready to provide competitive goaltending.
LEGACE (C) and CUJO (C-)have taken turns looking somewhat okay and then terrible. Can't blame either one for their struggles, really. Legace has
shown that he needs playing time to be effective. He did well backing up Cujo and Osgood, but struggled when Hasek came in and played so much.
Now he has even less playing time and his role his less understood. Cujo, meanwhile, must be in an awful state of mind. Gotta admire the way he's
handling this whole thing. I have no respect for simpletons who rip this guy.

DEFENCE (C)
Our defense hasn't been as good as advertised, even considering Hatcher's injury.
LIDSTROM (B-) recently went 12 games without a goal. His defensive game has been shaky, by his lofty standards. He's made a few critical
mistakes at bad times. With fedorov gone this year, Lidstrom is one of those guys we needed to step up his game. Instead, it's declined. Traditionally,
he's been a slow starter, however. So don't be surprised at all to see him turn things around.
SCHNEIDER (B-) has provided offense, but his defensive deficiencies can be glaring.
FISCHER (C-) started the year looking like THE FUTURE but has reverted to the style of play which led to Thomas (KL) Wharry's criticism of
Bowman's ability to handle rookies.
WOOLLEY (C) has been decent, but he's not going to survive the year if he continues to get pummelled the way he has in recent weeks.
DANDENAULT (C-) does nothing good anymore. I can't even remember the last time I thought, "hey, at least he's fast"
And CHELIOS (D). Oh, Chris Chelios. The stars must have been aligned for that one truly glorious season he had in Detroit. Don't get me wrong,
he's still an awesome penalty killer and his grit can't be measured. But he's caught out of position. He can't clear the zone. He can't pass in the
transition game. He hasn't been able to shoot in years.

FORWARDS (C)
Oh, don't go trying to blame all this on the goalie and the defense. Our forwards haven't been much help either. In fact, our defensive problems seem to happen when our forwards stop skating. It allows the other team to come out and generate the attack with less resistance.

YZERMAN (B+) Yeah, he leads the team in goals. Yes, he's doing more than I expected. Yes, he's scored big goals. But so what. He signed a $6M
contract last summer knowing he'd have knee problems, so how much slack can you cut him. It's assumed that Yzerman's biggest role is that of the leader. Well, even with all those veterans, all those guys who wore the C and the A, this team lacks leadership. It lacks heart. Yzerman needs to help
coach Lewis get his troops in line.
SHANAHAN (F) somehow has 15 points. Don't ask me how. I've watched all but two or three of the Wings games this year, and he's done nothing.
People accused Fedorov of floating. But even when Fedorov wasn't scoring, he did other things on the ice. Shanahan has been next to useless this year. What good is a $6M powerforward who doesn't score and won't hit?
DATSYUK (B-) hasn't quite lived up to expectations so far this year. Still, with Zetterberg out, he's undoubtedly been our best offensive weapon. He's second on the team in points. Weird thing is his goal total. He's got eight already. That's about a 30 goal pace, which is far more than anyone
expected. However, he has just 8 assists. I think that has less to do with his passing and more to do with Hull's inconsistency and broken sticks.
Defensively, Pavel hasn't been as bad as his (-7) indicates. He needs to stick closer to his guys in his own end. But he's very good at breaking up
plays and clearing the zone (his ability to ice the puck without being called for icing is remarkable, as is his ability to simply steal the puck) All of the attention he's getting from other teams' defensive players bodes well for Datsyuk. He won't be surprised come playoff time.
HULL (C) is playing a little like the Brett Hull we heard about in Dallas. He'll score in bunches in ways that only Hull can score, but he'll play lazy
hockey. He's never looked so lazy so often since coming to Detroit. He was simply awful in the Washington game. I'm waiting for an outburst in the paper or a criticism of Dave Lewis.
WHITNEY (C) Started great and seemed to have excellent chemistry when playing with Zetterberg or Yzerman. However, his play slipped and then his daughter got hurt and then his groin acted up. He's a good player, but he's a perimeter guy.
DRAPER (A) has been, night in and night out, one of the Wings' best players. He could be a Selke nominee this year. He also has 7 goals and 10 points. Not bad.
MALTBY (B+), like Draper, has been a source of consistency for the club. Not in the goals department (Maltby hadn't found the back of the net until last week), but in the good hockey department. He and Draper make things happen with all-out hustle. They've been terrific on the PK.
HOLMSTROM (C) is a guy who just can't seem to find a line where he can be effective during even strength situations. Still, he always works. And
he's an integral part of the powerplay. He could hit 20 goals again.
ZETTERBERG (B) will be out for another month or so with a broken leg. Though his offensive output wasn't eyepopping (Just 7 points in 12 games) Zetterberg was consistently one of the Wings best players despite being shuffled from line to line. He seemed to have good chemistry with Whitney on the first line or, as we know, Datsyuk and Hull on the second line.
MCCARTY (C-) is hurt again. This time it's back spasms. I can't believe we signed him to a four year deal at $2M per year. If there's a cap, he's going to make Boyd Devereaux look like a bargain.
DEVEREAUX (C), much to my surprise, hasn't made me throw up everynight. Yeah, he can't shoot, pass, or stickhandle. Yeah he's got no balance. But he works hard. He causes turnovers. At times, those turnovers have led to good scoring chances for his linemates.
WILLIAMS (D) has done nothing to significantly alter my longstanding position that Jason Williams sucks.
THOMAS (INC) has looked very good since coming to Detroit. He hits. He skates. He has a good shot. He works. A good pick up, to be sure. But
you gotta wonder where he fits in when everyone gets healthy.
BOOTLAND (INC) has won over a lot of Red Wing fans since being called up. He's feisty. He works hard in the corners. He fights (not very well,
IMO). If he improves his offensive game and his skating, he'll be mac's successor.
MOWERS (INC) is a career minor leaguer who's playing like he belongs in the NHL. Unfortunately for him, he won't be here once guys get healthy.
HUDLER (INC) really didn't get much of a shot with the Wings and is now in the AHL.
RIVERS (INC) is a depth player who's versatility (he plays wing or defense) should make him useful in a pinch.

COACHING (D)

LEWIS and company have failed so far this season. They've put together a couple solid streaks, but they've had far too many ugly games. Losing is
one thing. But the Wings are losing because of a lack of discipline, a lack of hustle, a lack of heart, lack of focus. A lot of that comes down to
preparation. And in the end, that's the coach's job. Lewis doesn't seem active on the bench. He's never diagramming plays. He's never talking to
players. He's never talking to refs. He never seems to say anything enlightening to the media. He doesn't seem to be able to inspire guys like Shanny and Hull.
Overall, his team looks about as disinterested as he does.
I hope he's gone before the playoffs.

GM (C)
Gotta like the Thomas signing, but come on, Thomas was there for the taking.
Holland's job coming into this season was this: 1) Trade Joseph. 2) Get a #1 center.
So far, he's 0/2. And, IMO, this team can't go anywhere until the cujo issue is settled.

The Wings have a seriously scary case of Jeckyl and Hyde right now. After playing a pretty good two weeks on the road (mostly), they return home and get spanked by the worst team in the league.

We've lost to several very shaky teams: Washington, Columbus, Nashville (twice), Pittsburg, Montreal, the Rangers.

And some good teams: St. Louis, Vancouver,

Seriously, we lost to St. Louis. At home. That never happens.
We've lost to Nashville twice. We haven't beat an Eastern Conference team since opening night.
We beat Chicago twice, which is weird.

Overall, we're 11-9-2.
We've blown third period multi-goal leads against Nashville, Edmonton (salvaged a tie), Chicago (managed to win), and Pittsburg.

We've allowed four goals or more to Pittsburg, Nashville (2x), St. Louis, Edmonton, Vancouver and Washington.

So what's the deal?
Well, injuries (Hatcher, Zetterberg, Hasek, Whitney and McCarty have all missed considerable time) have played a big role in the struggles and
depleted our depth, as evidenced by our 4th line of MARK MOWERS, DARRYL BOOTLAND, and JAMIE RIVERS. (As bad as that looks, they've
looked better than our actual NHL lines at times)
But Colorado has faced injuries, and they seem to be doing alright.

GOALTENDING (C)

Goaltending is obviously a problem.
HASEK (B-)Hasek has posted good numbers (7-3-1, 2.09, .914). But he's looked shaky at times. And this constant groin injury thing doesn't seem
very assuring. Still, if he gets healthy, he looks ready to provide competitive goaltending.
LEGACE (C) and CUJO (C-)have taken turns looking somewhat okay and then terrible. Can't blame either one for their struggles, really. Legace has
shown that he needs playing time to be effective. He did well backing up Cujo and Osgood, but struggled when Hasek came in and played so much.
Now he has even less playing time and his role his less understood. Cujo, meanwhile, must be in an awful state of mind. Gotta admire the way he's
handling this whole thing. I have no respect for simpletons who rip this guy.

DEFENCE (C)
Our defense hasn't been as good as advertised, even considering Hatcher's injury.
LIDSTROM (B-) recently went 12 games without a goal. His defensive game has been shaky, by his lofty standards. He's made a few critical
mistakes at bad times. With fedorov gone this year, Lidstrom is one of those guys we needed to step up his game. Instead, it's declined. Traditionally,
he's been a slow starter, however. So don't be surprised at all to see him turn things around.
SCHNEIDER (B-) has provided offense, but his defensive deficiencies can be glaring.
FISCHER (C-) started the year looking like THE FUTURE but has reverted to the style of play which led to Thomas (KL) Wharry's criticism of
Bowman's ability to handle rookies.
WOOLLEY (C) has been decent, but he's not going to survive the year if he continues to get pummelled the way he has in recent weeks.
DANDENAULT (C-) does nothing good anymore. I can't even remember the last time I thought, "hey, at least he's fast"
And CHELIOS (D). Oh, Chris Chelios. The stars must have been aligned for that one truly glorious season he had in Detroit. Don't get me wrong,
he's still an awesome penalty killer and his grit can't be measured. But he's caught out of position. He can't clear the zone. He can't pass in the
transition game. He hasn't been able to shoot in years.

FORWARDS (C)
Oh, don't go trying to blame all this on the goalie and the defense. Our forwards haven't been much help either. In fact, our defensive problems seem to happen when our forwards stop skating. It allows the other team to come out and generate the attack with less resistance.

YZERMAN (B+) Yeah, he leads the team in goals. Yes, he's doing more than I expected. Yes, he's scored big goals. But so what. He signed a $6M
contract last summer knowing he'd have knee problems, so how much slack can you cut him. It's assumed that Yzerman's biggest role is that of the leader. Well, even with all those veterans, all those guys who wore the C and the A, this team lacks leadership. It lacks heart. Yzerman needs to help
coach Lewis get his troops in line.
SHANAHAN (F) somehow has 15 points. Don't ask me how. I've watched all but two or three of the Wings games this year, and he's done nothing.
People accused Fedorov of floating. But even when Fedorov wasn't scoring, he did other things on the ice. Shanahan has been next to useless this year. What good is a $6M powerforward who doesn't score and won't hit?
DATSYUK (B-) hasn't quite lived up to expectations so far this year. Still, with Zetterberg out, he's undoubtedly been our best offensive weapon. He's second on the team in points. Weird thing is his goal total. He's got eight already. That's about a 30 goal pace, which is far more than anyone
expected. However, he has just 8 assists. I think that has less to do with his passing and more to do with Hull's inconsistency and broken sticks.
Defensively, Pavel hasn't been as bad as his (-7) indicates. He needs to stick closer to his guys in his own end. But he's very good at breaking up
plays and clearing the zone (his ability to ice the puck without being called for icing is remarkable, as is his ability to simply steal the puck) All of the attention he's getting from other teams' defensive players bodes well for Datsyuk. He won't be surprised come playoff time.
HULL (C) is playing a little like the Brett Hull we heard about in Dallas. He'll score in bunches in ways that only Hull can score, but he'll play lazy
hockey. He's never looked so lazy so often since coming to Detroit. He was simply awful in the Washington game. I'm waiting for an outburst in the paper or a criticism of Dave Lewis.
WHITNEY (C) Started great and seemed to have excellent chemistry when playing with Zetterberg or Yzerman. However, his play slipped and then his daughter got hurt and then his groin acted up. He's a good player, but he's a perimeter guy.
DRAPER (A) has been, night in and night out, one of the Wings' best players. He could be a Selke nominee this year. He also has 7 goals and 10 points. Not bad.
MALTBY (B+), like Draper, has been a source of consistency for the club. Not in the goals department (Maltby hadn't found the back of the net until last week), but in the good hockey department. He and Draper make things happen with all-out hustle. They've been terrific on the PK.
HOLMSTROM (C) is a guy who just can't seem to find a line where he can be effective during even strength situations. Still, he always works. And
he's an integral part of the powerplay. He could hit 20 goals again.
ZETTERBERG (B) will be out for another month or so with a broken leg. Though his offensive output wasn't eyepopping (Just 7 points in 12 games) Zetterberg was consistently one of the Wings best players despite being shuffled from line to line. He seemed to have good chemistry with Whitney on the first line or, as we know, Datsyuk and Hull on the second line.
MCCARTY (C-) is hurt again. This time it's back spasms. I can't believe we signed him to a four year deal at $2M per year. If there's a cap, he's going to make Boyd Devereaux look like a bargain.
DEVEREAUX (C), much to my surprise, hasn't made me throw up everynight. Yeah, he can't shoot, pass, or stickhandle. Yeah he's got no balance. But he works hard. He causes turnovers. At times, those turnovers have led to good scoring chances for his linemates.
WILLIAMS (D) has done nothing to significantly alter my longstanding position that Jason Williams sucks.
THOMAS (INC) has looked very good since coming to Detroit. He hits. He skates. He has a good shot. He works. A good pick up, to be sure. But
you gotta wonder where he fits in when everyone gets healthy.
BOOTLAND (INC) has won over a lot of Red Wing fans since being called up. He's feisty. He works hard in the corners. He fights (not very well,
IMO). If he improves his offensive game and his skating, he'll be mac's successor.
MOWERS (INC) is a career minor leaguer who's playing like he belongs in the NHL. Unfortunately for him, he won't be here once guys get healthy.
HUDLER (INC) really didn't get much of a shot with the Wings and is now in the AHL.
RIVERS (INC) is a depth player who's versatility (he plays wing or defense) should make him useful in a pinch.

COACHING (D)

LEWIS and company have failed so far this season. They've put together a couple solid streaks, but they've had far too many ugly games. Losing is
one thing. But the Wings are losing because of a lack of discipline, a lack of hustle, a lack of heart, lack of focus. A lot of that comes down to
preparation. And in the end, that's the coach's job. Lewis doesn't seem active on the bench. He's never diagramming plays. He's never talking to
players. He's never talking to refs. He never seems to say anything enlightening to the media. He doesn't seem to be able to inspire guys like Shanny and Hull.
Overall, his team looks about as disinterested as he does.
I hope he's gone before the playoffs.

GM (C)
Gotta like the Thomas signing, but come on, Thomas was there for the taking.
Holland's job coming into this season was this: 1) Trade Joseph. 2) Get a #1 center.
So far, he's 0/2. And, IMO, this team can't go anywhere until the cujo issue is settled.

I have to give Yzerman an A, just because it seems like his knee surgery has taken a few years off, his point total has been tapering off the last few seasons, but so far his been able to score prety consistantly.

Not too impressed with Whitney so far, doesn't seem to bury his chances enough, I like Bootland better than McCarty already. Dats has been the most consistant Wing, IMO, but he gets too fancy sometimes, and he's defense is average.

The defense has looked average, just like all the other Wings D over the past couple of seasons, get into this mode where they play beneath their ability, except for Lids, but even he has looked average. Cheli needs to retire, give him a rest and bring up Kronwall.

Can't fault the goalies, everyone blames Cujo and it drives me nuts since he hasn't had any help and it won't trading him any easier that way. I can't stand Hasek anymore after how he handled everything over the summer, he's been hurt off and on, but played decent, except for St. Louis.

Nothing that a simple coaching change can fix, this team has really lost a step, IMO.

Shanahan is really an F? I just grabbed him in my hockey pool!!! Hopefully that F indicates there's lots of upside this year!! :D :D

Pretty good analysis. I went and looked at some of the stats thus far, and you'll never guess who is amongst the league leaders in shot percentage...believe it or not it's our own Pavel Datsyuk. Yeah, hard to believe, but he's right up there. Night after night he's going out and working his tail off. I know he making mistakes on defense, but you gotta admit it's gotten a lot better since his rookie year, and he isn't afraid to go after the puck, or to hit someone at times. I've seen him do it and actually been rather pleasantly surprised at the results...he's managed to hold his own. Say what you want, but this kid is coming on, and with Henrik out for at least another 3 weeks before he can even think of skating, Pasha has been trying to hold up his end of everyone's expectations. I give him great credit for doing as good as he has.

:bow: Pretty good analysis. I went and looked at some of the stats thus far, and you'll never guess who is amongst the league leaders in shot percentage...believe it or not it's our own Pavel Datsyuk. Yeah, hard to believe, but he's right up there. Night after night he's going out and working his tail off. I know he making mistakes on defense, but you gotta admit it's gotten a lot better since his rookie year, and he isn't afraid to go after the puck, or to hit someone at times. I've seen him do it and actually been rather pleasantly surprised at the results...he's managed to hold his own. Say what you want, but this kid is coming on, and with Henrik out for at least another 3 weeks before he can even think of skating, Pasha has been trying to hold up his end of everyone's expectations. I give him great credit for doing as good as he has.

I am not that surprised he is that hish on the shot percentage...we all know he doesn't shot that much, and he already has 8 goals this year. so 8 goals on not too many shots would put him there :D :yo: :bow: I think he has been one of the most consistent players on the team, and I am glad he is showing he can step it up

Pretty good analysis. I went and looked at some of the stats thus far, and you'll never guess who is amongst the league leaders in shot percentage...believe it or not it's our own Pavel Datsyuk. Yeah, hard to believe, but he's right up there. Night after night he's going out and working his tail off. I know he making mistakes on defense, but you gotta admit it's gotten a lot better since his rookie year, and he isn't afraid to go after the puck, or to hit someone at times. I've seen him do it and actually been rather pleasantly surprised at the results...he's managed to hold his own. Say what you want, but this kid is coming on, and with Henrik out for at least another 3 weeks before he can even think of skating, Pasha has been trying to hold up his end of everyone's expectations. I give him great credit for doing as good as he has.


Datsyuk has been good. But he's not getting points at the pace he set in the second half of last year (over a point per game, if memory serves).
And let's be honest, shooting percentage means nothing for a guy like Datsyuk.
Same with Larionov. They have high shooting percentages because they never took low percentage shots. They'd rather pass or lose the puck then put a shot on net from 40 feet or from a bad angle.

all 3 positions rated a "c"

gimme a break, the forwards are getting banged up and the replacements are playing up to par if not past par.... Mowers played great, Bootland is playing awesome, give them some credit for filling in. And to top it off last i knew we were top1 or 2 in the league if GF, that deserves atleast a B....

all 3 positions rated a "c"

gimme a break, the forwards are getting banged up and the replacements are playing up to par if not past par.... Mowers played great, Bootland is playing awesome, give them some credit for filling in. And to top it off last i knew we were top1 or 2 in the league if GF, that deserves atleast a B....

Sorry dude, but when I wrote this, we were 9-7.
For a team with this payroll, that's a C, Injuries or not.

And talk about GF all you want, but our forwards have been playing terrible defensive hockey this year (outside of Maltby/Draper).

If you're so impressed by one-way hockey, go route for Atlanta.

Sorry dude, but when I wrote this, we were 9-7.
For a team with this payroll, that's a C, Injuries or not.

And talk about GF all you want, but our forwards have been playing terrible defensive hockey this year (outside of Maltby/Draper).

If you're so impressed by one-way hockey, go route for Atlanta.


Datsyuk has made improvements in the faceoff circle. So he's improved in that regard. And while Devereaux still has no finishing ability whatsoever, he's ok as a mucker and grinder. 12-9 is ok I guess. But tons of work needs to be done.

Surprisingly to me, Detroit hasn't had much of a problem scoring goals (although 5 on 5 needs work). Defensively they have been terrible. leads given up all the time is unacceptable.

Datsyuk has made improvements in the faceoff circle. So he's improved in that regard. And while Devereaux still has no finishing ability whatsoever, he's ok as a mucker and grinder. 12-9 is ok I guess. But tons of work needs to be done.

Surprisingly to me, Detroit hasn't had much of a problem scoring goals (although 5 on 5 needs work). Defensively they have been terrible. leads given up all the time is unacceptable.

Yeah, they've won a few blow outs which really pad the stats.

But what's concerning is their inability to take a 2-1 lead into the third, or a 3-2 lead, and hold on to it.
Here's what I'd like to see: A 3-2 lead with two 5 0n 5 goals, and then a solid defensive third period.

Sorry dude, but when I wrote this, we were 9-7.
For a team with this payroll, that's a C, Injuries or not.

And talk about GF all you want, but our forwards have been playing terrible defensive hockey this year (outside of Maltby/Draper).

If you're so impressed by one-way hockey, go route for Atlanta.

so because i dont agree with your grades, i should go be a atl fan...

The grind line was playing pretty decent, hull was playing ok, but age looked like early on it was hitting him, shanahan was playing like ****, yzerman was playing great, dats and z were playing pretty good though...

a C is just a little too low, there have been some games were defensively it wasnt the forwards fault, just because they arent always back there doesnt mean much

so because i dont agree with your grades, i should go be a atl fan...

The grind line was playing pretty decent, hull was playing ok, but age looked like early on it was hitting him, shanahan was playing like ****, yzerman was playing great, dats and z were playing pretty good though...

a C is just a little too low, there have been some games were defensively it wasnt the forwards fault, just because they arent always back there doesnt mean much

No, the reason why I suggested you go be an Atlanta fan is because you pointed to Goals For as the reason for your disagreement.

You've backed it up a little more now.

Welcome back to Detroit!

We still disagree.

I'm concerned with defensive play (Yzerman/Shanahan/Holmstrom/Hull/Datsyuk/Devereaux/Williams/Whitney have all looked bad in their own zone at times this year.)
I'm concerned about intensity (Hull/Shanahan/YzermanWhitney have all looked very flat in some games)
I'm concerned about stupid giveaways (Just about everyone on the wings has been guilty of some very boneheaded and un-veteran like plays)
I'm concerned about 5 on 5 goal scoring ability.

I supposed I'd give these guys a B if they were playing for Columbus. But they;re making an awful lot of money. And they must be held to higher standards.

i guess i agree with you... While they arent playing too bad, and when they get a win, its by a big margine, but yea we should overall be playing better defensively at all positions...

anyway... who knows, maybe december will be nice to us and we'll get a few forwards back

And talk about GF all you want, but our forwards have been playing terrible defensive hockey this year (outside of Maltby/Draper).

I'm a little confused here. It seems to me like for most of the season people have been lamenting the Wings' 5 on 5 performance as lackluster at best and outright horrible at worst. Yet even before these last two blowouts Detroit was still outscoring the opposition 5 on 5... which sort of implies to me that for all of these percieved defensive shortcomings the Wings were somehow managing to allow even fewer goals than they were able to score themselves. And that was with one of the worst team save percentages in the league.

I think the area that Detroit's defense really lagged over that period was on the PK where they went from #1 to #16 in the span of two or three weeks. 33 for 35 in the first 8 games (94.3), 22-31 (71.0) in the next 8. They're 27-31 (87.1) in the third 8 of the year. I think it is important to note that their record in those splits was 5-3, 3-4-1, and 5-2-1.