Henry Not on Short-list for FIFA Player of the Year

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=394068&cc=5901

Zidane, Cannavaro, and Ronaldinho are the top 3. I don't know if this is because Henry plays for a smaller club or something else, but it's an absolute joke. This is the man who singlehandedly turned Arsenal's season around and got us to the CL final. Last January, things were looking very bleak, but he led us out of it. He also had a really good WC although he dived a lot. He did score 3 goals and set up a couple others. Finally, he's hasn't been incredible this year, but he's certainly been better than Ronaldinho.

I can understand Cannavaro's inclusion, but Zidane's is pathetic. He's had 1 good game this year practically and for that, he gets to be PoY. Fantastic.

Dinho has been far from his best since the CL final and even though he's starting to hit his form again, he was terrible in the WC and not up to scratch for Barca for the first couple months of the season.

FIFA...:shakehead

Even more pathetic, would be Zidane winning it.

Zidane and Ronaldinho don't deserve to be NEAR that award this year. I'm not exactly sure how big of an impact the WC has on FIFA's player of the year award...but that could weigh in on why Henry isn't there...But then again Zidane and Ronaldinho weren't anything special. Henry put up great numbers on a pretty average team and was one of the only reasons that they finished near the top of the EPL.

On the bright side, maybe Henry will get angry and have some good games against Tottenham and Chelsea.

On the bright side, maybe Henry will get angry and have some good games against Tottenham and Chelsea.

And don't forget Porto...Dec. 2-10 will make or break the Gunners season, by the end they could be back in the title picture and first in their CL group, or have no hope of either...

And Zidane on that list is indeed a joke, but I'm sure Ronaldinho will win either way.

See Helice, exactly what I told you.
As bad as Ballon D'Or is, FIFA PoY is even worse.

None of the three finalists should be in the running.

Zidane? Why?

Zidane? Why?
Because he's a world class... name.

And yes he did have 3 great games this season, but it hardly makes sense to see him in the top 3.

See Helice, exactly what I told you.
As bad as Ballon D'Or is, FIFA PoY is even worse.Yeah, the difference there is between crap and CRAP.

But then again Zidane and Ronaldinho weren't anything special.Actually Zizou was something special during the WC final!! :biglaugh:

Zidane were last season a lot better than season before tho. Since he knew it was his last season he played a lot better with Real than before.

Then again, well... it's just some nomines which are mostly political.

Not about this case, but otherwise Henry haven't been too spectular in big games either, not in WC or CL final, etc. With Arsenal otherwise yes, but not in when it was most vital.

Zidane were last season a lot better than season before tho. Since he knew it was his last season he played a lot better with Real than before.

Then again, well... it's just some nomines which are mostly political.

Not about this case, but otherwise Henry haven't been too spectular in big games either, not in WC or CL final, etc. With Arsenal otherwise yes, but not in when it was most vital.
France 1-0 Brazil (Henry)

I expect more of Henry with France, but that urban legend (choke in big games) is just not right.

France 1-0 Brazil (Henry)

I expect more of Henry with France, but that urban legend (choke in big games) is just not right.Besides, he was easily the most dangerous player for France in the final..

France 1-0 Brazil (Henry)

I expect more of Henry with France, but that urban legend (choke in big games) is just not right.

It's right that part that he isn't playing so well as he is playing in not so big games. And you are just giving one game and one goal. While Henry is having 0.68goals/game with Arsenal he is having 0.43goals/game with France. He haven't scored more than 3 goals in WC's/EC's in any of those tournaments. So in 5 tournaments he have 11 goals. While ie. Klose have 10 goals just in two WC's. Or as Ronaldo have 16 just in 3 WC's. Henry have scored only twice in the knockout stage for France in those 5 tournaments.

While Henry have been oustanding with Arsenal, he isn't really showing that potential too often when it comes to win big games.

Edit: And before you say it, I don't like to say Klose is better player than Henry or Ronaldo nowaways is better, but simple showing that Henry haven't done much when it comes to win big games. At least not so much as guy like him should do. And statistically he haven't proven me otherwise neither with his playing. With France last WC he were just at offside all the time, had actually one good game(that one against Brazil).

While Henry is having 0.68goals/game with Arsenal he is having 0.43goals/game with France.

Well, it's pretty obvious why. For the most part, Arsenal's offense runs exclusively through Henry. It's not the same case for the national team.

Well, it's pretty obvious why. For the most part, Arsenal's offense runs exclusively through Henry. It's not the same case for the national team.

It's also because that Domenach doesn't let Trezeguet partner with him.

Well, it's pretty obvious why. For the most part, Arsenal's offense runs exclusively through Henry. It's not the same case for the national team.

Well ie. last WC Henry were most of matches alone at upfront. I'm not saying Henry isn't great player, just showing that while ppl are dissing some other players not playing well when it matters, Henry haven't been fabulous either in big games too often.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=394068&cc=5901

Zidane, Cannavaro, and Ronaldinho are the top 3. I don't know if this is because Henry plays for a smaller club or something else, but it's an absolute joke. This is the man who singlehandedly turned Arsenal's season around and got us to the CL final. Last January, things were looking very bleak, but he led us out of it. He also had a really good WC although he dived a lot. He did score 3 goals and set up a couple others. Finally, he's hasn't been incredible this year, but he's certainly been better than Ronaldinho.

I can understand Cannavaro's inclusion, but Zidane's is pathetic. He's had 1 good game this year practically and for that, he gets to be PoY. Fantastic.

Dinho has been far from his best since the CL final and even though he's starting to hit his form again, he was terrible in the WC and not up to scratch for Barca for the first couple months of the season.

FIFA...:shakehead

So Henry should be in because he lead a team to the CL final but Zidane shouldn't be in despite leading his country to the WC final?

On the bright side, maybe Henry will get angry and have some good games against Tottenham and Chelsea.
He certainly didn't have a good one at Fulham. HE's due I guess.


Zidane, Cannavaro, and Ronaldinho are the top 3. I don't know if this is because Henry plays for a smaller club or something else, but it's an absolute joke. This is the man who singlehandedly turned Arsenal's season around and got us to the CL final. Last January, things were looking very bleak, but he led us out of it. He also had a really good WC although he dived a lot. He did score 3 goals and set up a couple others. Finally, he's hasn't been incredible this year, but he's certainly been better than Ronaldinho.He has? He has been GOD AWFUL this season. In his defence he has been injured but he has been really bad and arsenal have suffered as a result (Yesterday's game is case in point).

Eto'o has more claim to a finalist spot than Henry or Ronnie IMO.

Loved Canns in the WC but....

I would give it to either of Henry or Eto'o...

Loved Canns in the WC but....

I would give it to either of Henry or Eto'o...

Even though Canns was unquestionably the MVP of the world-cup winning italians, after leading his team to a serie a title (which of course they had to forfeit, but still.............)?

It's right that part that he isn't playing so well as he is playing in not so big games. And you are just giving one game and one goal. While Henry is having 0.68goals/game with Arsenal he is having 0.43goals/game with France. He haven't scored more than 3 goals in WC's/EC's in any of those tournaments. So in 5 tournaments he have 11 goals. While ie. Klose have 10 goals just in two WC's. Or as Ronaldo have 16 just in 3 WC's. Henry have scored only twice in the knockout stage for France in those 5 tournaments.

While Henry have been oustanding with Arsenal, he isn't really showing that potential too often when it comes to win big games.

Edit: And before you say it, I don't like to say Klose is better player than Henry or Ronaldo nowaways is better, but simple showing that Henry haven't done much when it comes to win big games. At least not so much as guy like him should do. And statistically he haven't proven me otherwise neither with his playing. With France last WC he were just at offside all the time, had actually one good game(that one against Brazil).
As I've said many times, I'm not a big fan of Henry with the NT, because of his up and down play and because of his behaviour (asking to play alone in front for instance).

My point was that his "choking" reputation is far far from being true.
He scored the biggest goal for France in the qualifiers (1-0 win in Ireland).
He scored the biggest goal for France in the WC (against Brazil). He was key in many situations during the WC, and came up big in Madrid for Arsenal as well in the CL.

As I've said many times, I'm not a big fan of Henry with the NT, because of his up and down play and because of his behaviour (asking to play alone in front for instance).

My point was that his "choking" reputation is far far from being true.
He scored the biggest goal for France in the qualifiers (1-0 win in Ireland).
He scored the biggest goal for France in the WC (against Brazil). He was key in many situations during the WC, and came up big in Madrid for Arsenal as well in the CL.

I never said he would be choking, just that he haven't been same Henry most of times when it comes to big games. He is tremendous player and if he would play as good as he plays "always" in normal games in EPL he should have netted a lot more with France and in CL games when it matters. Then again Arsenal haven't played too much CL games which would have been very big, so that might a bit reason too.

Anyway starting point was that you(and some others) were dissing ie. Cannavaro, Ronaldinho, etc. about their perfermances, still Cannavaro led his team to WC win and helped Juve to win Serie A, Ronaldinho led his team to La Liga&CL win. So there isn't much point of raising Henry and playing these guys down.

What do you mean they haven't played too many? They always qualify, have made it past the first stage in most of the seasons to my knowledge and got to the final last year. How many CL games do they want to play? ;)

Evilo, why shouldn't Cannavaro be in the running? It's the year when he's firmly established himself as the best centre half in the world. What more do you want him to do?

What do you mean they haven't played too many? They always qualify, have made it past the first stage in most of the seasons to my knowledge and got to the final last year. How many CL games do they want to play? ;)

Well I ment since Arsenal have been recently just in one final Henry being not so great in that one final doesn't show so much. While France have been from 1998 in every possible EC/WC so and those every game count, even more. One game in CL is far inferior to one game in WC/EC. And even more so since EPL is so unbalanced league that Arsenal will play every year in CL with even decent season. You can just check english teams in CL last 5+ seasons.

Anyway, I think I got my point out already. The point was if ppl are bashing ie. Cannavaro about some ~10 games in Real Madrid it's far worse argument than checking guys playing in WC, etc.

John Terry folks?

Ahh yes, the old awards debate. Great thread for a laugh every time. It's hilarious how Henry should somehow be on the shortlist but Ronaldinho shouldn't. Supposedly Henry's been better than Ronaldinho this season despite the fact that Ronaldinho is the leading scorer in Spain. He was a CL winner and a La Liga winner last season, playing a key role in both competitions and also put up huge stats (24 goals/17 assists in CL and La Liga alone). Sure he had a poor WC, but everybody seems to forget that the WC is only a small handful of matches. But hey, Ronaldinho doesn't play in the Premiership and we all know how tough Arsenal have it compared to every other club on the planet. All the managers and his peers in terms of the players that voted for him as player of the year already this season must be clueless.

Seems that Henry's whinging is rubbing off on his supporters.

Eto'o has more claim to a finalist spot than Henry or Ronnie IMO.

Agreed. He's been very overlooked this awards season. Shhhh. Be quiet though. Eto'o isn't even top 25 on HF Boards.

John Terry folks?

Average season by his standards. Not even a contender for the final three. It'll be Cannavaro, by a street. He's the only stand-out player.

Ahh yes, the old awards debate. Great thread for a laugh every time. It's hilarious how Henry should somehow be on the shortlist but Ronaldinho shouldn't. Supposedly Henry's been better than Ronaldinho this season despite the fact that Ronaldinho is the leading scorer in Spain. He was a CL winner and a La Liga winner last season, playing a key role in both competitions and also put up huge stats (24 goals/17 assists in CL and La Liga alone). Sure he had a poor WC, but everybody seems to forget that the WC is only a small handful of matches. But hey, Ronaldinho doesn't play in the Premiership and we all know how tough Arsenal have it compared to every other club on the planet. All the managers and his peers in terms of the players that voted for him as player of the year already this season must be clueless.

Seems that Henry's whinging is rubbing off on his supporters.

Get off your high-horse mate and look at the facts. It's not all about the numbers. First of all, Ronaldinho is surrounded by legions of talent. As you yourself mentioned, Eto'o is a top 5 striker in the world, Messi is a huge player, Giuly is great, Xavi is solid although injured a lot, Deco won the best midfielder award, Iniesta is a great young talent, etc. The only players on Arsenal besides Henry who would come close to breaking into Barca's first team would be Fabregas and Toure.

Henry scored 32 goals last year in the EPL and CL and led the EPL in scoring.

You also have to look at his leadership qualities. Last January, Arsenal, we were dead in the water. We were way out of a CL qualifying place and nobody (including myself) was giving Arsenal much of a chance against Madrid. Who pulled us back? Who beat 3 defenders to score the goal that took us through against Madrid? Who led us to our first CL final ever? Thierry Henry. With respect to Ronaldinho, Henry took a much less talented squad and beat two giants of European football in Juventus and Madrid. Also, who knows what would have happened against Barca if Almunia hadn't let in 2 terrible goals.

Then we have the WC. You say it's only a few games and that's true, but the difference is that Henry showed up and Ronaldinho didn't. I'm also shocked that people would question his performance. His diving was absolutely pathetic, but Ronnie dives quite a bit too. Also, Henry, not Ronaldinho, scored the game winning goal in the QF and I think he won the penalty that Zidane converted in the semi-final. A 3 goal haul at the WC is not too bad whatsoever.

I admit that this season he hasn't been incredible, but neither have Ronnie or Cannavaro and Henry is only two goals off the lead in the EPL race despite having some injury problems.

I think he deserves this award more than anyone else to be honest. Without Ronnie, Barca would still be a top club in Spanish football. Without Henry, Arsenal are mid-table.

Evilo, why shouldn't Cannavaro be in the running? It's the year when he's firmly established himself as the best centre half in the world. What more do you want him to do?

I don't see him as a lock as #1 CB.
And how about the #1 goalie who lead his team to the WC?
And how about the #1 striker who lead his team to the WC final and CL final?
And how about the #2 striker who lead his team to a CL win?

Cannavaro doesn't need to do much more : he doesn't have the talent these other guys have.
He shoudl have never come close to winning the BdO.

One game in CL is far inferior to one game in WC/EC.

EC yes, but WC???
Are you really saying that facing Real in the CL quarters is easier than facing Togo in the WC?

The WC is all about the event. The football played there is RARELY among the best played over the year.

Basically, Ronnie and Henry were both fantastic until the WC.
Henry had a "good" WC, Ronnie had an "awful" WC.
Since then, both have been under average.

EC yes, but WC???
Are you really saying that facing Real in the CL quarters is easier than facing Togo in the WC?

Depends how good Real is;) Well there is some easy teams(like Togo or Saudi-Arabia), but then again there is good nations too outside europe.

And how about the #1 striker who lead his team to the WC final and CL final?

Are you really saying Henry was driving force for France? While of his 3 goals he had 2 against those teams you are dissing(Togo&South Korea). In 3 knock out games Henry scored just once. Not much for solo striker if he is LEADING his team.

I think we have been watching different WC then, since I thought it was whole different player(s) leading France team.

Are you really saying Henry was driving force for France? While of his 3 goals he had 2 against those teams you are dissing(Togo&South Korea). In 3 knock out games Henry scored just once. Not much for solo striker if he is LEADING his team.

I think we have been watching different WC then, since I thought it was whole different player(s) leading France team.
There were 3 players leading France in the WC (outside the more than solid D with Thuram and Gallas) : Henry, Zidane and Vieira.
All proved clutch in the big moments.
Zizou was great in the knockout stage games and assisted on Henry's goal against Brazil (as well as Vieira's goal against Spain).
Henry scored the biggest goal of the tournament for France in the quarters.
Vieira came up huge in both of these games and in the last group game.

As for the two other Henry goals, both proved absolutely huge. France was playing so poorly at that point that without these two goals, France is eliminated in the group stage.

Depends how good Real is;) Well there is some easy teams(like Togo or Saudi-Arabia), but then again there is good nations too outside europe.
Few of them.
And all these teams aren't used to play together for the whole year.

The CL is a much much tougher competition than the WC.
The EC is different. Every game is a big game.

John Terry folks?
no way in hell. If people are blasting ronnie's inclusion because of his world cup play, where does that leave Terry, who apart from the Portugal game was almost comical in his ineffectiveness?
Seems that Henry's whinging is rubbing off on his supporters.Couldn't have said it better....

Get off your high-horse mate and look at the facts. It's not all about the numbers. First of all, Ronaldinho is surrounded by legions of talent. As you yourself mentioned, Eto'o is a top 5 striker in the world, Messi is a huge player, Giuly is great, Xavi is solid although injured a lot, Deco won the best midfielder award, Iniesta is a great young talent, etc. The only players on Arsenal besides Henry who would come close to breaking into Barca's first team would be Fabregas and Toure.
And yet without Ronnie all that 'talent' would not be nearly as effective. Don't try to play the inferior supporting cast card after posting time and time again such tripe as Cesc being already a world class player, Cole being the best left back in the world, Lehman having the best season of his life, etc etc etc. You are certainly one to wax lyrical about how great your young players are, and how much they are playing beyond their years, but apparently not when it doesn't suit your argument.



You also have to look at his leadership qualities. Last January, Arsenal, we were dead in the water. We were way out of a CL qualifying place and nobody (including myself) was giving Arsenal much of a chance against Madrid. Who pulled us back? Who beat 3 defenders to score the goal that took us through against Madrid? Who led us to our first CL final ever? Thierry Henry. With respect to Ronaldinho, Henry took a much less talented squad and beat two giants of European football in Juventus and Madrid. Also, who knows what would have happened against Barca if Almunia hadn't let in 2 terrible goals.Don't act like it's as if he wasn't a part of the team that got itself to 'lame duck' status last year. It's not as if he magically appeared in January from nowehere. He was sucking it up with all the rest of them until that point. Bottom line is they still finish fourth, and for all you want to say about Henry he did not win a single trophy last season

Then we have the WC. You say it's only a few games and that's true, but the difference is that Henry showed up and Ronaldinho didn't. I'm also shocked that people would question his performance. His diving was absolutely pathetic, but Ronnie dives quite a bit too. Also, Henry, not Ronaldinho, scored the game winning goal in the QF and I think he won the penalty that Zidane converted in the semi-final. A 3 goal haul at the WC is not too bad whatsoever.When you play every single game it's not such a great strike rate in all honesty.

I admit that this season he hasn't been incredible, but neither have Ronnie or Cannavaro and Henry is only two goals off the lead in the EPL race despite having some injury problems.As to this season's form, whoop-de-doo he is near the lead in goals of the most negative league in Europe. He is also a lone striker, and nobody else on the team knows how to shoot the friggin ball, which should be painfully obvious to Arse supporters by now.


I think he deserves this award more than anyone else to be honest. Without Ronnie, Barca would still be a top club in Spanish football. Without Henry, Arsenal are mid-table.
But of course you do. And I have read opinions from Arse supporters that the team actually plays much better without Henry, the Man United game being case in point this season.

The WC is all about the event. The football played there is RARELY among the best played over the year.
agreed.

And yet without Ronnie all that 'talent' would not be nearly as effective. Don't try to play the inferior supporting cast card after posting time and time again such tripe as Cesc being already a world class player, Cole being the best left back in the world, Lehman having the best season of his life, etc etc etc. You are certainly one to wax lyrical about how great your young players are, and how much they are playing beyond their years, but apparently not when it doesn't suit your argument.


Cole barely played at all last year and he might not be the top LB in the world anyways. It's been surprising how little we've actually missed him. Just because young players have a lot of talent doesn't mean that those players are great players already. Arsenal have loads of young talent, but I'll be the first to tell you that this is not a title winning team. I believe I predicted Arsenal to be 2nd or 3rd which should be about accurate at the end of the year. The only guys who play beyond their years are Cesc and maybe Eboue.


Don't act like it's as if he wasn't a part of the team that got itself to 'lame duck' status last year. It's not as if he magically appeared in January from nowehere. He was sucking it up with all the rest of them until that point. Bottom line is they still finish fourth, and for all you want to say about Henry he did not win a single trophy last season


You think Ronnie would have won trophies if he and Henry's position had been switched?


When you play every single game it's not such a great strike rate in all honesty.


Three goals in 7 games is equivalent to about 16 goals in a league season, so I personally don't think it's too bad especially when each one of those goals was vastly important.


As to this season's form, whoop-de-doo he is near the lead in goals of the most negative league in Europe. He is also a lone striker, and nobody else on the team knows how to shoot the friggin ball, which should be painfully obvious to Arse supporters by now.


I love how people who don't watch EPL look at the first 3 months of the league and automatically assume it's negative. If the La Liga is so much more attacking, maybe Ronnie's numbers don't mean as much?

And for your credit, Henry has 6 goals and RvP has 5, so it's not like he's been the only one scoring.


But of course you do. And I have read opinions from Arse supporters that the team actually plays much better without Henry, the Man United game being case in point this season.


One game. How about the Bolton game where we played without him and had no attack whatsoever? To be honest, Arsenal fans who say that just don't watch the team. They always carry more menace going forward when Henry is on the pitch.

Get off your high-horse mate and look at the facts. It's not all about the numbers. First of all, Ronaldinho is surrounded by legions of talent. As you yourself mentioned, Eto'o is a top 5 striker in the world, Messi is a huge player, Giuly is great, Xavi is solid although injured a lot, Deco won the best midfielder award, Iniesta is a great young talent, etc. The only players on Arsenal besides Henry who would come close to breaking into Barca's first team would be Fabregas and Toure.

Henry scored 32 goals last year in the EPL and CL and led the EPL in scoring.

You also have to look at his leadership qualities. Last January, Arsenal, we were dead in the water. We were way out of a CL qualifying place and nobody (including myself) was giving Arsenal much of a chance against Madrid. Who pulled us back? Who beat 3 defenders to score the goal that took us through against Madrid? Who led us to our first CL final ever? Thierry Henry. With respect to Ronaldinho, Henry took a much less talented squad and beat two giants of European football in Juventus and Madrid. Also, who knows what would have happened against Barca if Almunia hadn't let in 2 terrible goals.

Then we have the WC. You say it's only a few games and that's true, but the difference is that Henry showed up and Ronaldinho didn't. I'm also shocked that people would question his performance. His diving was absolutely pathetic, but Ronnie dives quite a bit too. Also, Henry, not Ronaldinho, scored the game winning goal in the QF and I think he won the penalty that Zidane converted in the semi-final. A 3 goal haul at the WC is not too bad whatsoever.

I admit that this season he hasn't been incredible, but neither have Ronnie or Cannavaro and Henry is only two goals off the lead in the EPL race despite having some injury problems.

I think he deserves this award more than anyone else to be honest. Without Ronnie, Barca would still be a top club in Spanish football. Without Henry, Arsenal are mid-table.

Get off my high-horse? That's rich coming from the person who is saying that one person deserves it over another. I haven't even said that and I think that there could/should be a shortlist of 5 players any of whom would be deserving. I'll start by saying that I'm not ripping on Henry. I think he should definitely be considered. Then of course I think I view the award differently and go past the calender year (which IMO makes no sense as this award should be given in late July or so.

So Henry isn't surrounded by talent? Wow, you really my favourite my Arsenal supporter. Though this time I don't think you're giving squad enough credit. Cesc is there for starters (and yes, you did mention him). Cesc is absolute class and if Arsenal put a price tag of 50 million on him Madrid would pay it. As for the rest and looking primarily at last season (as let's face it, this season is a factor but probably less so), Eboue could easily be considered a starter over Oleguer or Belletti. Hell, the way Zambrotta's played thus far he should be benched at Barça (though he's starting to come around). Then you had Reyes who while he wouldn't have started at Barça was/is still class and better than Giuly right now and also better than all of our bench players. You also had van Persie (who probably should have had more minutes), Bergkamp, Cole, Campbell. Arsenal were stacked with talent and were/are really put together well as a team. Wenger is one of the best managers out there if you ask me more so because he can construct a team to play his brand of football rather than his development of players. IMO he picks the right type of player, especially in a physical sense. Anyway, the argument that Ronaldinho is surrounded by more talent is probably true but not to some huge extent. Even if it is, it just means that Henry sees that much more of the ball and is Arsenal's go to guy every time which means he's got more opportunities.

I know his stats. He also plays in position that affords him more goals than Ronaldinho. That's evident by the 30%+ more shots that Henry took. Either way, I'm not saying Henry isn't worthy. I'm just saying he's not more worthy than Ronaldinho. Henry: 32 goals/6 assists. Ronaldinho: 24 goals/17 assists. Comparable numbers. Again though, one is the main "go to" guy for his team while the other competes with a lot of other players for the ball.

Leadership? Ronaldinho is a vice captain at Barça and has been for years. We actually have local lads and players who've come up through the system so it's a lot tougher for a guy like Ronaldinho to get the captaincy (though it's been discussed amongst some supporters). Against Madrid? Giants of European football? Historically yes. Last season? Well Juve more so, but Madrid not so much. I'd say that Chelsea, Benfica and Milan are tougher opposition than Juve, Madrid and Villarreal. I'm sorry, but Madrid were nowhere near what their results suggested last season. Besides, I seem to recall Ronaldinho beating at minimum three Madrid players to score a goal at the Bernabeu. In fact, he did it twice in the same match and ended up with a standing ovation from the supporters in the Bernabeu. Ronaldinho provided the superb assist for Giuly to score against Milan in the CL semifinal at the San Siro. I seem to remember something else from the Chelsea match from him, but it's just slipped my mind. With respect to Henry, Ronaldinho was as good against tougher competition as he helped lead his side to CL glory.

Henry clearly had a better WC. He played on a better side, or should I say a better managed side. He also wasn't played out of position the entire time.

As for this season, Ronaldinho hasn't been stellar but he's also been better than what the press and a lot of people suggest. He's clearly fatigued as Barça did that stupid preseason tour that included probably 15,000 miles of travel and how many matches in two weeks (and that's just the US tour). And Henry's played as many matches (more actually) as Ronaldinho has this season, so the comparison stands. Barça's been ravaged by injuries and perhaps more importantly it's been subject to Rijkaard's squad rotations which haven't helped (this is in regards to your point about the quality of the side). Henry would be 4th in the scoring standings in Spain while Ronaldinho would be 1st in the scoring charts for England. Then again all of us here on HF boards know that the Premiership is a much better league than La Liga and that La Liga is more on par with MLS.

I think it's great that you think Henry deserves the award. I have no problem with that. I think he should be on a shortlist (of say 5 names). What I do have a problem with is you saying that an equally deserving player should basically not even be on the shortlist. That's absolutely ridiculous and does you no favours in making your case. You wanna have a go at a player on the shortlist, then focus on the player who shouldn't be there. That's Zidane.

The CL is a much much tougher competition than the WC.

Thank you. Nice posting as usual Easy.

Cole barely played at all last year and he might not be the top LB in the world anyways. It's been surprising how little we've actually missed him. Just because young players have a lot of talent doesn't mean that those players are great players already. Arsenal have loads of young talent, but I'll be the first to tell you that this is not a title winning team. I believe I predicted Arsenal to be 2nd or 3rd which should be about accurate at the end of the year. The only guys who play beyond their years are Cesc and maybe Eboue. I refer you to the comments from leshabs that somewhat sum up my comments on that particular issue. Ronnie may have had a better supporting cast but it certainly is not the defining factor you seem to think it is.



You think Ronnie would have won trophies if he and Henry's position had been switched? They play different positions, so hard to say.



Three goals in 7 games is equivalent to about 16 goals in a league season, so I personally don't think it's too bad especially when each one of those goals was vastly important.
not too bad but 20 players in the world score 16 in their league each year......they don't get the boD


I love how people who don't watch EPL look at the first 3 months of the league and automatically assume it's negative. If the La Liga is so much more attacking, maybe Ronnie's numbers don't mean as much?
Excuse me? Why you think I don't watch the EPL is beyond me, but I refer you to my thread about the negative english football. It IS negative, and when you constantly have mid-table teams grinding out 0-0 or 1-1 draws against each other the league is in big trouble.
And for your credit, Henry has 6 goals and RvP has 5, so it's not like he's been the only one scoring.

so that means his supporting cast isn't that bad? :dunno:



One game. How about the Bolton game where we played without him and had no attack whatsoever? To be honest, Arsenal fans who say that just don't watch the team. They always carry more menace going forward when Henry is on the pitch.

Actually the ones that say that are the ones that watch the team. Literally. Travelling all over Europe to boot. Don't dismiss people's opinions just because they don't fit your Henry god-complex. He certainly didn't help them with his presence midweek did he?

He played on a better side, or should I say a better managed side.
:eek:
Please don't hurt me!

:eek:
Please don't hurt me!

:biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:

EDIT: Actually, compared to Brazil................

:eek:
Please don't hurt me!

Well compared to Brazil.

Get off my high-horse? That's rich coming from the person who is saying that one person deserves it over another. I haven't even said that and I think that there could/should be a shortlist of 5 players any of whom would be deserving. I'll start by saying that I'm not ripping on Henry. I think he should definitely be considered. Then of course I think I view the award differently and go past the calender year (which IMO makes no sense as this award should be given in late July or so.

So Henry isn't surrounded by talent? Wow, you really my favourite my Arsenal supporter. Though this time I don't think you're giving squad enough credit. Cesc is there for starters (and yes, you did mention him). Cesc is absolute class and if Arsenal put a price tag of 50 million on him Madrid would pay it. As for the rest and looking primarily at last season (as let's face it, this season is a factor but probably less so), Eboue could easily be considered a starter over Oleguer or Belletti. Hell, the way Zambrotta's played thus far he should be benched at Barça (though he's starting to come around). Then you had Reyes who while he wouldn't have started at Barça was/is still class and better than Giuly right now and also better than all of our bench players. You also had van Persie (who probably should have had more minutes), Bergkamp, Cole, Campbell. Arsenal were stacked with talent and were/are really put together well as a team. Wenger is one of the best managers out there if you ask me more so because he can construct a team to play his brand of football rather than his development of players. IMO he picks the right type of player, especially in a physical sense. Anyway, the argument that Ronaldinho is surrounded by more talent is probably true but not to some huge extent. Even if it is, it just means that Henry sees that much more of the ball and is Arsenal's go to guy every time which means he's got more opportunities.

I know his stats. He also plays in position that affords him more goals than Ronaldinho. That's evident by the 30%+ more shots that Henry took. Either way, I'm not saying Henry isn't worthy. I'm just saying he's not more worthy than Ronaldinho. Henry: 32 goals/6 assists. Ronaldinho: 24 goals/17 assists. Comparable numbers. Again though, one is the main "go to" guy for his team while the other competes with a lot of other players for the ball.

Leadership? Ronaldinho is a vice captain at Barça and has been for years. We actually have local lads and players who've come up through the system so it's a lot tougher for a guy like Ronaldinho to get the captaincy (though it's been discussed amongst some supporters). Against Madrid? Giants of European football? Historically yes. Last season? Well Juve more so, but Madrid not so much. I'd say that Chelsea, Benfica and Milan are tougher opposition than Juve, Madrid and Villarreal. I'm sorry, but Madrid were nowhere near what their results suggested last season. Besides, I seem to recall Ronaldinho beating at minimum three Madrid players to score a goal at the Bernabeu. In fact, he did it twice in the same match and ended up with a standing ovation from the supporters in the Bernabeu. Ronaldinho provided the superb assist for Giuly to score against Milan in the CL semifinal at the San Siro. I seem to remember something else from the Chelsea match from him, but it's just slipped my mind. With respect to Henry, Ronaldinho was as good against tougher competition as he helped lead his side to CL glory.

Henry clearly had a better WC. He played on a better side, or should I say a better managed side. He also wasn't played out of position the entire time.

As for this season, Ronaldinho hasn't been stellar but he's also been better than what the press and a lot of people suggest. He's clearly fatigued as Barça did that stupid preseason tour that included probably 15,000 miles of travel and how many matches in two weeks (and that's just the US tour). And Henry's played as many matches (more actually) as Ronaldinho has this season, so the comparison stands. Barça's been ravaged by injuries and perhaps more importantly it's been subject to Rijkaard's squad rotations which haven't helped (this is in regards to your point about the quality of the side). Henry would be 4th in the scoring standings in Spain while Ronaldinho would be 1st in the scoring charts for England. Then again all of us here on HF boards know that the Premiership is a much better league than La Liga and that La Liga is more on par with MLS.

I think it's great that you think Henry deserves the award. I have no problem with that. I think he should be on a shortlist (of say 5 names). What I do have a problem with is you saying that an equally deserving player should basically not even be on the shortlist. That's absolutely ridiculous and does you no favours in making your case. You wanna have a go at a player on the shortlist, then focus on the player who shouldn't be there. That's Zidane.

First of all, when did I ever say that Ronnie shouldn't be on the shortlist? I think he certainly deserves to be on the list. My personal 3 would be Henry, Ronnie, and Cannavaro. My argument is that Henry deserves it more than Ronaldinho.

At the beginning of the season, if I had said that Eboue was better than Zambrotta, I would have been hung out to dry by every poster on this board because it's not true. Reyes definitely wasn't better than Giuly last year. Reyes has a lot of moves, but he wasn't getting results with Arsenal. He'll do better than Madrid, but he wasn't much help to Henry and by all accounts, they didn't get along very well.

van Persie is a class player, but he was injured for most of our CL run and the climb to 4th. We're talking about the 2006 season and while I love Bergkamp and he's my favorite player, he was a nonfactor. I can't believe you would even mention Campbell who was hurt or terrible for all of last year although it's great to see him rejuvenated at Pompey. I already mentioned that Cole was hurt for most of the year.

Henry did what he could against the opposition given to him in the CL and while Ronnie's goals were impressive, Henry's goal was much more important and more clutch which is ironic because most people here say he isn't a clutch player. It's great that Ronnie had the assist and I'm not denying that he played very well, but as I already mentioned, Deco was named best midfielder of the tournament and Eto'o was named best striker I believe. So there is your proof that he had plenty of help.

Better managed side? Henry played in a 4-5-1 which is by far his worst formation because he's much more effective when he's playing with someone in a 4-4-2 and he can drift out left (when will the FFF realize this?).

Also, I don't remember saying that the EPL is a better league than La Liga. Technically, I think the two leagues are about equal. I prefer to watch the Premiership because there is a more physical aspect and also because it's a lot easier for me to watch because I don't have enough time to track down La Liga games and watch them. And also, La Liga is a more offensive league, so it's natural that Ronnie would score more goals especially since Eto'o is gone so more of the scoring load falls on him. Contrastingly, RvP is coming into his own this season and picking up more of the scoring load.

Of course Ronnie deserves to be on the short-list, he's the most talented player in world football today. However, I still think that Henry deserves to win because of both his exceptional performance this year and his exceptional performances over the past 5 years.

I refer you to the comments from leshabs that somewhat sum up my comments on that particular issue. Ronnie may have had a better supporting cast but it certainly is not the defining factor you seem to think it is.


[QUOTE=xalcyx]
They play different positions, so hard to say.


Actually they're very similar in where they play on the field. The both play on the left and like to drift in to pick up the ball.


not too bad but 20 players in the world score 16 in their league each year......they don't get the boD


Certainly a better strike-rate than the likes of Ronaldinho. Henry was tied for 2nd in scoring at the WC, if that's not enough, I really don't know what to say.


Actually the ones that say that are the ones that watch the team. Literally. Travelling all over Europe to boot. Don't dismiss people's opinions just because they don't fit your Henry god-complex. He certainly didn't help them with his presence midweek did he?

This is absolutely absurd and I don't even feel like arguing it with you. I'll just make a thread on XT and ask if Arsenal would be a better team without Henry, we'll see what the responses will be.

Shocking!!! This quote coming from a poster who is a Madrid fan then an Arsenal fan.


I think those people he has been talking to are really Spurs fans in disguise.

For starters, I can count how many games Henry has missed for Arsenal in the last 5 seasons on one hand, and maybe one foot.

Anyone who thinks we are a better team without Henry is mental, just look at what happened in Bolton.

He is the best all-round player in the World FFS, how can any team be better off without him?


Unbelievable!! An Arsenal fan who thinks Henry has value to the team?!?!

First of all, when did I ever say that Ronnie shouldn't be on the shortlist? I think he certainly deserves to be on the list. My personal 3 would be Henry, Ronnie, and Cannavaro. My argument is that Henry deserves it more than Ronaldinho.

At the beginning of the season, if I had said that Eboue was better than Zambrotta, I would have been hung out to dry by every poster on this board because it's not true. Reyes definitely wasn't better than Giuly last year. Reyes has a lot of moves, but he wasn't getting results with Arsenal. He'll do better than Madrid, but he wasn't much help to Henry and by all accounts, they didn't get along very well.

van Persie is a class player, but he was injured for most of our CL run and the climb to 4th. We're talking about the 2006 season and while I love Bergkamp and he's my favorite player, he was a nonfactor. I can't believe you would even mention Campbell who was hurt or terrible for all of last year although it's great to see him rejuvenated at Pompey. I already mentioned that Cole was hurt for most of the year.

Henry did what he could against the opposition given to him in the CL and while Ronnie's goals were impressive, Henry's goal was much more important and more clutch which is ironic because most people here say he isn't a clutch player. It's great that Ronnie had the assist and I'm not denying that he played very well, but as I already mentioned, Deco was named best midfielder of the tournament and Eto'o was named best striker I believe. So there is your proof that he had plenty of help.

Better managed side? Henry played in a 4-5-1 which is by far his worst formation because he's much more effective when he's playing with someone in a 4-4-2 and he can drift out left (when will the FFF realize this?).

Also, I don't remember saying that the EPL is a better league than La Liga. Technically, I think the two leagues are about equal. I prefer to watch the Premiership because there is a more physical aspect and also because it's a lot easier for me to watch because I don't have enough time to track down La Liga games and watch them. And also, La Liga is a more offensive league, so it's natural that Ronnie would score more goals especially since Eto'o is gone so more of the scoring load falls on him. Contrastingly, RvP is coming into his own this season and picking up more of the scoring load.

Of course Ronnie deserves to be on the short-list, he's the most talented player in world football today. However, I still think that Henry deserves to win because of both his exceptional performance this year and his exceptional performances over the past 5 years.

No, you didn't literally say it. Though based on the title of this thread (that you started) as well as your first post one could and probably should deduce that it's exactly what you meant.

I didn't say Eboue was better than Zambrotta. The point is that he could very well be having the better season right now. Zambrotta's been quite poor with Barça thus far and is only now putting together a few good performances. As for Reyes, he put up better numbers than Giuly did last season.

Bergkamp put up good numbers for the matches he played, Campbell made 29 starts and I didn't even mention Pires. Cole was around in the end too. Either way, it doesn't matter. As I said, the stronger the side the more the options and the less you see of the ball. Ronaldinho is every bit as clutch as Henry and his goals were every bit as clutch. They put nails in coffins. As for the CL competition, Barça had tougher draws. As for the any awards that Eto'o or Deco won, I thought all these awards were crap? Again though, it just means that Ronalidnho had to compete with his teammates in a sense for his time on the ball.

It was a better managed side because at least he was up front. He may have been alone, but that's better than being parked back near the halfway line. I love how since Ronaldinho didn't have the same numbers he does with Barça it's somehow down to him. He was clearly not utilized properly by Brazil.

You don't remember saying the Premiership is better than La Liga? Then you've completely forgotten the thread where we discussed which league is the best. Statistically right now the two leagues are very close in goals scored per week. As for Eto'o being gone, Ronaldinho didn't take his position. Gudjohnsen has (which at times has been unfortunate) and that's actually probably taken some assists and goals away from Ronnie as the difference in the team has been noticeable for most matches. Either way, it still doesn't change the fact that Henry plays more so as a true striker and in a more advanced position. Their positioning in a match isn't as you described in your other post either. Ronaldinho has less freedom and is more concentrated on the left.

His exceptional performances over the past 5 years? Then why we just give it to Zidane and say "well he's had the best career." Again, it's great you think Henry should win it. I don't have a problem with that so much other than you seem to think it's some sort of divine right for Henry and somehow blatantly obvious he should get the award. Again though, your title of this thread coupled with your first post suggest otherwise that you think Ronaldinho should be on the shortlist. As for me, if Henry got it I wouldn't think that it was an injustice. Like I said, I think that about 5 guys could/should be on the shortlist all of which are deserving in their own right.

Shocking!!! This quote coming from a poster who is a Madrid fan then an Arsenal fan.



Unbelievable!! An Arsenal fan who thinks Henry has value to the team?!?!

While I agree that Arsenal are better with Henry than without (I don't know how one could think otherwise), I wouldn't go around quoting Mad4 (or whatever he calls himself these days) to make my case.

No, you didn't literally say it. Though based on the title of this thread (that you started) as well as your first post one could and probably should deduce that it's exactly what you meant.

I didn't say Eboue was better than Zambrotta. The point is that he could very well be having the better season right now. Zambrotta's been quite poor with Barça thus far and is only now putting together a few good performances. As for Reyes, he put up better numbers than Giuly did last season.

Bergkamp put up good numbers for the matches he played, Campbell made 29 starts and I didn't even mention Pires. Cole was around in the end too. Either way, it doesn't matter. As I said, the stronger the side the more the options and the less you see of the ball. Ronaldinho is every bit as clutch as Henry and his goals were every bit as clutch. They put nails in coffins. As for the CL competition, Barça had tougher draws. As for the any awards that Eto'o or Deco won, I thought all these awards were crap? Again though, it just means that Ronalidnho had to compete with his teammates in a sense for his time on the ball.

It was a better managed side because at least he was up front. He may have been alone, but that's better than being parked back near the halfway line. I love how since Ronaldinho didn't have the same numbers he does with Barça it's somehow down to him. He was clearly not utilized properly by Brazil.

You don't remember saying the Premiership is better than La Liga? Then you've completely forgotten the thread where we discussed which league is the best. Statistically right now the two leagues are very close in goals scored per week. As for Eto'o being gone, Ronaldinho didn't take his position. Gudjohnsen has (which at times has been unfortunate) and that's actually probably taken some assists and goals away from Ronnie as the difference in the team has been noticeable for most matches. Either way, it still doesn't change the fact that Henry plays more so as a true striker and in a more advanced position. Their positioning in a match isn't as you described in your other post either. Ronaldinho has less freedom and is more concentrated on the left.

His exceptional performances over the past 5 years? Then why we just give it to Zidane and say "well he's had the best career." Again, it's great you think Henry should win it. I don't have a problem with that so much other than you seem to think it's some sort of divine right for Henry and somehow blatantly obvious he should get the award. Again though, your title of this thread coupled with your first post suggest otherwise that you think Ronaldinho should be on the shortlist. As for me, if Henry got it I wouldn't think that it was an injustice. Like I said, I think that about 5 guys could/should be on the shortlist all of which are deserving in their own right.


I do agree with most of what you said. However, I do think Henry deserves it more than Ronnie this year. Ronnie is fantastic, but Henry was just exceptional for us over the first 5 months and had a great WC. The Henry-Ronnie argument is like the Pele-Maradona argument. Which player stands out more, the man that shines among stars or the man that leads a decent team to fantastic heights. It's a tough argument with no solution.

As for his cast, Bergkamp had good numbers, but he doesn't have the legs anymore and he didn't for most of last season. Pires also had a severe drop-off last year, any Arsenal fan will tell you that. As I said, I prefer to watch the EPL because it's a more physical league and I do think the leagues are about comparable. There is a lot of technical talent throughout the league, definitely as much as La Liga. Look at Doyle who plays for Reading and is tied for the league lead in goals. Campbell made 29 starts and was well below average for more than half of them.

I think Henry does deserve it more than Ronnie and you know there's a difference between Henry's situation and Zidane's. To be honest, I think Henry got shafted because of his whining and his diving performance at the WC which was pathetic. In the end, he only has himself to blame for this, but it's still frustrating to be him unrewarded for a fantastic performance.

I think Henry does deserve it more than Ronnie and you know there's a difference between Henry's situation and Zidane's. To be honest, I think Henry got shafted because of his whining and his diving performance at the WC which was pathetic. In the end, he only has himself to blame for this, but it's still frustrating to be him unrewarded for a fantastic performance.
Good god could you put anymore contradictions in one sentence? He deserved to win but his antics cost so he didnt deserve it as its his own fault.......you're giving me a headache.
Shocking!!! This quote coming from a poster who is a Madrid fan then an Arsenal fan.
Unbelievable!! An Arsenal fan who thinks Henry has value to the team?!?!

and this one from another message board I frequent:
Premiership stat:

Arsenal with Henry (250 odd games) - 2.03 points average

Arsenal without Henry (50 odd games) - 2.08 points average

I need to explain myself because as usual you did not READ what I said and then took this off on your own little tangent. I did not say arsenal fans don't value him, I said as a TEAM, they play better without him. The reason they do this is because he demands way to much of the ball when he is playing and stifles some of the other players in the team because there is pressure to get him the ball as much as possible. Without him the other players better express themselves, and it seems they are much more cohesive as a unit. As a disclaimer: I am not advocating anything against his abilities, merely pointing out his effect on the team. He is a great player and can turn a game on its head in an instant. The fact is the other players play better without him for the most part, as seen this year against ManU and Spurs. Are they a better team without him? Obviously not. This stat has nothing to do with his exclusion from the award, I just needed to straighten out the words that you yet again went and put in my mouth

Good god could you put anymore contradictions in one sentence? He deserved to win but his antics cost so he didnt deserve it as its his own fault.......you're giving me a headache.


It's really not that hard. He deserves the award because of his performance. However, he didn't receive of it because of his behavior off the field.


I need to explain myself because as usual you did not READ what I said and then took this off on your own little tangent. I did not say arsenal fans don't value him, I said as a TEAM, they play better without him. The reason they do this is because he demands way to much of the ball when he is playing and stifles some of the other players in the team because there is pressure to get him the ball as much as possible. Without him the other players better express themselves, and it seems they are much more cohesive as a unit. As a disclaimer: I am not advocating anything against his abilities, merely pointing out his effect on the team. He is a great player and can turn a game on its head in an instant. The fact is the other players play better without him for the most part, as seen this year against ManU and Spurs. Are they a better team without him? Obviously not. This stat has nothing to do with his exclusion from the award, I just needed to straighten out the words that you yet again went and put in my mouth

First of all, .05 points is a miniscule difference. Secondly, for the first few seasons of Henry's career at Arsenal, we had so much talent as a team that he wasn't as important as he is now. Over the last two years though, he's become much more important. Finally, Henry gets rested for a lot of games. Do those stats happen to include the Carling Cup, the early stages of the FA Cup, or some Premiership games against really weak teams that Arsenal don't need Henry for? I bet they do.

Besides, anyone with a decent brain can manipulate stats to their advantage, so I really don't put very much stock in them. Also, Henry has seen much less of the ball recently because Hleb and Eboue have become pretty decent going down the right.

It's really not that hard. He deserves the award because of his performance. However, he didn't receive of it because of his behavior off the field.
which is fair enough IMO.


First of all, .05 points is a miniscule difference. Secondly, for the first few seasons of Henry's career at Arsenal, we had so much talent as a team that he wasn't as important as he is now. Over the last two years though, he's become much more important. Finally, Henry gets rested for a lot of games. Do those stats happen to include the Carling Cup, the early stages of the FA Cup, or some Premiership games against really weak teams that Arsenal don't need Henry for? I bet they do.

Besides, anyone with a decent brain can manipulate stats to their advantage, so I really don't put very much stock in them. Also, Henry has seen much less of the ball recently because Hleb and Eboue have become pretty decent going down the right.while it's a negligable difference, it proves a point that it's not the total disaster without him that arsenal fans would have you believe. On that particular forum we are still trying to track down the scope of the games but it is an interesting stat nonetheless, and the sample size is certainly large enough to give it some credence.

while it's a negligable difference, it proves a point that it's not the total disaster without him that arsenal fans would have you believe. On that particular forum we are still trying to track down the scope of the games but it is an interesting stat nonetheless, and the sample size is certainly large enough to give it some credence.

You still haven't proved anything. I'm taking a fairly high-level statistics class at BU right now and one of the main points that the professor made at the beginning of the semester is that statistics are useless if there's no information to back them up. What you've done is given us some statistics that support your argument, but we have no way to analyze the statistics or look at the information behind them and until you give me that information, I'm not going to put any stock in them.

We certainly wouldn't be a disaster without Henry, but we wouldn't be top 4 either. We'd probably be in the running for the UEFA Cup or thereabouts. I remember that in the year before Vieira left, Arsenal were 4-1-1 without him in the line-up or something like that, but that doesn't mean that we didn't end up missing him a whole lot.

Ug, one last try.

The stat is a PREMIERSHIP stat, hence the "points" and not "goals" as you do not score points in a cup match, thereby eliminating your theory of sitting out cup games against conference opponents. Just to clarify.

Let's review (though not sure why i am bothering TBH).

YOU make argument that Henry's supporting cast is far inferior to Ronaldinho's as some sort of justification for him being ahead of Ronnie in the voting. I point out that this is an exaggeration on your part and point out the fine talent that surrounds him. I attempt to explain in an attempt to support this that without Henry, the other players seem to play better as a unit, given that they are more free to exhibit their own talents due to him not being there demanding so much of the ball. YOU take offense and immediately try to tell me I'm wrong without really sitting to think about the argument, so I try to provide that statistic which I found to be quite interesting in pointing out that results are not as dire for Arsenal without him as they would appear. YOU poo-poo these statistics as me trying to twist something around to suit my argument (even though I'm not sure you've grasped my argument). I provide two victories this year against very good teams as proof that arsenal does in fact have pretty good players and can maybe play without Henry.

Let me try to do this one more time, and you really need to only respond to this sentence:

The other PLAYERS on Arsenal seem to play better without Henry. With that said, in no way am I trying to advocate AGAINST his talent, or his involvement in the team. He is a great player and they are a better team with him, mostly. It's not necessarily doom and gloom when he misses games thouygh, which is what people would have you believe.

Is that so difficult to understand?

Ug, one last try.

The stat is a PREMIERSHIP stat, hence the "points" and not "goals" as you do not score points in a cup match, thereby eliminating your theory of sitting out cup games against conference opponents. Just to clarify.

Let's review (though not sure why i am bothering TBH).

YOU make argument that Henry's supporting cast is far inferior to Ronaldinho's as some sort of justification for him being ahead of Ronnie in the voting. I point out that this is an exaggeration on your part and point out the fine talent that surrounds him. I attempt to explain in an attempt to support this that without Henry, the other players seem to play better as a unit, given that they are more free to exhibit their own talents due to him not being there demanding so much of the ball. YOU take offense and immediately try to tell me I'm wrong without really sitting to think about the argument, so I try to provide that statistic which I found to be quite interesting in pointing out that results are not as dire for Arsenal without him as they would appear. YOU poo-poo these statistics as me trying to twist something around to suit my argument (even though I'm not sure you've grasped my argument). I provide two victories this year against very good teams as proof that arsenal does in fact have pretty good players and can maybe play without Henry.

Let me try to do this one more time, and you really need to only respond to this sentence:

The other PLAYERS on Arsenal seem to play better without Henry. With that said, in no way am I trying to advocate AGAINST his talent, or his involvement in the team. He is a great player and they are a better team with him, mostly. It's not necessarily doom and gloom when he misses games thouygh, which is what people would have you believe.

Is that so difficult to understand?

Sources, sources, sources....???? :shakehead Until I see your stat and your info, it means nothing.

And to be honest, they don't really play better without Henry. I've been watching nearly every game for the last 3 years and that statement just isn't true.

And to be honest, they don't really play better without Henry. I've been watching nearly every game for the last 3 years and that statement just isn't true.

then explain why he makes the OTHER players play better. You still have completely missed the point. He doesn't make them play better because he demands the ball (and has become more and more petulant about that over the past few years) and they don't get to exhibit their own games.

Again, they are not a better team without him, but the other players play better. I don't understand how you can explain otherwise.

then explain why he makes the OTHER players play better. You still have completely missed the point. He doesn't make them play better because he demands the ball (and has become more and more petulant about that over the past few years) and they don't get to exhibit their own games.

Again, they are not a better team without him, but the other players play better. I don't understand how you can explain otherwise.

Yep, Henry demands the ball so much and other players never play to their capacity. :shakehead Hleb is one of the best wingers in the Premiership although he plays on the opposite side of the field. Eboue has become an exceptional RB. van Persie has the same amount of goals as Henry this year and has steadily improved over 3 years. Fabregas' has grown in leaps and bounds.

The only player that didn't benefit that much from Henry was Reyes and he's gone now. The other players do not play better when he's out of the line-up. That's pure idiocy. If you want to listen to your crackpot Arsenal fans that you know, feel free.

And just for the record, Tottenham hadn't scored a single away goal from the run of play away from home, so our win at home was good, but not overly impressive.

Good thing we dominated Bolton without Henry to prove your point. Oh, wait a minute....:shakehead

Good thing we dominated Bolton without Henry to prove your point. Oh, wait a minute....:shakehead

Don't be stupid here. You can believe what you want about the argument but using this is a failed attempt at being petulant. I see your Bolton (which Arsenal NEVER beat) and I raise you a Man United and Spurs. This is going nowhere. Let's just agree to disagree.

Don't be stupid here. You can believe what you want about the argument but using this is a failed attempt at being petulant. I see your Bolton (which Arsenal NEVER beat) and I raise you a Man United and Spurs. This is going nowhere. Let's just agree to disagree.

Spurs are horrid away from home and the Man Utd one might have been a fluke.

Spurs are horrid away from home and the Man Utd one might have been a fluke.

or the bolton game was a fluke.....


and around and around we go. Close this thread.

or the bolton game was a fluke.....


and around and around we go. Close this thread.

So I guess the Porto game was a fluke too then?

:deadhorse:

Henry is French POY.