Columbus got the wrong guy?

Check out this. This is a column from Russian sports newspaper, they compare Zherdev with Mozyakin: http://www.rushockey.com/events.php?i=sl&stream=sl_news&id=17

Two words:

Sour grapes.



I can, without a doubt, say that Zherdev is more NHL-ready at this point in his career than Mozyakin. Plus, Mozyakin's size will always be an issue in the NHL.

Sour grapes? Maybe. But there might be actual truth to that. Zherdev just gave up too easily when playing for CSKA. He left not only the club but the fans which felt betrayed, this just proves that he is a "softie". What makes you think that he will achieve anything in this league or in fact he is better then Mozyakin forget about the size.

Sour grapes? He left not only the club but the fans which felt betrayed, this just proves that he is a "softie".

I certainly sympathasize with wanting to get out of Russia. Wanting to leave that cesspool....er I mean country, does not make you a softie :shakehead.

What makes you think that he will achieve anything in this league

Are you serious?

I certainly sympathasize with wanting to get out of Russia. Wanting to leave that cesspool....er I mean country, does not make you a softie :shakehead.

Well. I see your argument. But it is pretty soft too. Remember, hockey is a mans game, not for sissies. If he could not play in Moscow, modern European megapolis, I do not see how he can improve much better playing for a team in town of Columbus. Also, he is not clutch at all. Ask his teammeates in CSKA and in Russian junior team, he alwasy chokes when it matters.

Are you serious?

Of course I am serious. What could be not serious about it? The guy is a choker. Where has he achieved anything besides playing behind the strong backs of Ovechkin and Grigorenko. Look, he could not prove anything in Russia, unlike Ovechkin for instance, who plays with heart and pride.

Well. I see your argument. But it is pretty soft too. Remember, hockey is a mans game, not for sissies. If he could not play in Moscow, modern European megapolis, I do not see how he can improve much better playing for a team in town of Columbus. Also, he is not clutch at all. Ask his teammeates in CSKA and in Russian junior team, he alwasy chokes when it matters.

When has he been counted on to be cutch for CSKA?

Of course I am serious. What could be not serious about it? The guy is a choker. Where has he achieved anything besides playing behind the strong backs of Ovechkin and Grigorenko. Look, he could not prove anything in Russia, unlike Ovechkin for instance, who plays with heart and pride.

Yeah, you're right.

The guy has absolutely no chance whatsoever into developing into an NHLer. I mean, teams use 4th overall selections all the time for players who do not have a chance to be an NHLer.

Oh wait, he already is now, and has looked damn good.

Ever think it was his surroundings/environment holding him back?

What's your beef on Zherdev anyway. You seem very anti-Zherdev, bitter he left?

Check out this. This is a column from Russian sports newspaper, they compare Zherdev with Mozyakin: http://www.rushockey.com/events.php?i=sl&stream=sl_news&id=17

That articles uses horrid logic, and I should know, I majored in it.

They essentially use the same logic Brendan Shanahan used against Belarus in the 2002 Olympics when facing them in the Semi-Finals.

Shanahan had said that Canada were the underdogs going against Belarus, because Belarus had beaten Sweden, and Sweden had whooped Canada.

Does that logic at all make sense? Does that really mean that Canada were in fact the underdogs against a 'superior' Belarus squad?

No.

Sure, the comments are made in jest to start the article, but there's no way Mozyakin would make a larger impact in Columbus then Zherdev. Mozyakin wouldn't be welcomed into the organization the way Mozyakin would, and there's no way Mozyakin would want to be in Columbus right now.

What's your beef on Zherdev anyway. You seem very anti-Zherdev, bitter he left?

Bitter? Not really. I am just interested how this whole thing develops. Remember, in Russia it is different, they develop players in their system and then losing them this way really hurts fans. I hope Russian clubs start charging $1+ million directly to NHL clubs. There were too many Russian talents buried in the minor leagues across North America.

Bitter? Not really. I am just interested how this whole thing develops. Remember, in Russia it is different, they develop players in their system and then losing them this way really hurts fans. I hope Russian clubs start charging $1+ million directly to NHL clubs. There were too many Russian talents buried in the minor leagues across North America.

They may be buried, but they're there by choice. We aren't keeping them here against their will, something that it appeared was happening with Zherdev.

Unless he fled Russia despite enjoying his time there, which doesn't sound much like the case at all.

Sibs, you reek of sour grapes. While Zherdev isn't a lock for a great, or even good, NHL career, he's got incredible talent. I think your 'proof' is in your head. If he was so bad for CSKA, then why do they feel betrayed? Would they feel so bad if someone like Mukhachev just up and left?

Sure, the comments are made in jest to start the article, but there's no way Mozyakin would make a larger impact in Columbus then Zherdev. Mozyakin wouldn't be welcomed into the organization the way Mozyakin would, and there's no way Mozyakin would want to be in Columbus right now.

Mozyakin is not ready in NHL. You are just too blind to see. It will take you a while to realize that, but right now you are all screaming, jumping about overrated, overhyped player. He should have stayed in Russia for at least a season, but the management and his stupid agent decided it their way. Look at Datsyuk. And compare him with Chistov who is turning himself into an average third liner, or else Svitov, who seemed he lost everything he had 2 years ago.

Sibs, you reek of sour grapes. While Zherdev isn't a lock for a great, or even good, NHL career, he's got incredible talent. I think your 'proof' is in your head. If he was so bad for CSKA, then why do they feel betrayed? Would they feel so bad if someone like Mukhachev just up and left?

Amen brother. (Did I just say that to a Preds fan? I've been gone so long, it seems like there's a friendship/mutual respect begining :eek: )

As well, why would CSKA want him back, and begin the process of going to the lengths they are starting to, if he's a meagre 5th liner?

Mozyakin is not ready in NHL. You are just too blind to see. It will take you a while to realize that, but right now you are all screaming, jumping about overrated, overhyped player. He should have stayed in Russia for at least a season, but the management and his stupid agent decided it their way. Look at Datsyuk. And compare him with Chistov who is turning himself into an average third liner, or else Svitov, who seemed he lost everything he had 2 years ago.

Correct me if I'm wrong, since I know Chistov had to serve, but didn't Svitov have to serve as well?

They may be buried, but they're there by choice. We aren't keeping them here against their will, something that it appeared was happening with Zherdev.

Unless he fled Russia despite enjoying his time there, which doesn't sound much like the case at all.


C'mon Aaron. You are smarter then that, no need for naive questions. What do these boys know about America coming at the age of 18? Nothing besides seeing Pepsi advertisement and reports from Iraq. They are just tools in the big game in the hands of management and agents.

C'mon Aaron. You are smarter then that, no need for naive questions. What do these boys know about America coming at the age of 18? Nothing besides seeing Pepsi advertisement and reports from Iraq. They are just tools in the big game in the hands of management and agents.

How many of these Russians are at the age of 18 that are buried in the minors?

Amen brother. (Did I just say that to a Preds fan? I've been gone so long, it seems like there's a friendship/mutual respect begining :eek: )

As well, why would CSKA want him back, and begin the process of going to the lengths they are starting to, if he's a meagre 5th liner?

CSKA do not want him back. You guys really need to go to CSKA guestbook and read what fans say about him. He has been called nothing but "Zvezdul'kin" thinking of himself as a superstar.

I think what CSKA is bitter about is that they lost a player for nothing and now they need to find someone to cover that spot. That would probably be 300-400 thousand dollars talking about of salaries of similar players in Superleague.

CSKA do not want him back. You guys really need to go to CSKA guestbook and read what fans say about him. He has been called nothing but "Zvezdul'kin" thinking of himself as a superstar.

I think what CSKA is bitter about is that they lost a player for nothing and now they need to find someone to cover that spot. That would probably be 300-400 thousand dollars talking about of salaries of similar players in Superleague.

How hard is it to find someone to play on your fifth line. Hell, that's what CSKA-2 is for.

They aren't bitter about finding a replacement. Zherdev leaving is cause for embarassment. They want to try to hide that. They are choked because a 'citizen' of theirs defected because he wasn't happy with the way things were going, and it was a slap in the face for them, no doubt about it.

Please don't tell me they're upset because they have to replace a fifth liner, that's just bs.

I meant Zherdev is not ready for NHL. At this point Mozyakin is a better player in terms of production, defensive game and his every day output.

How hard is it to find someone to play on your fifth line. Hell, that's what CSKA-2 is for.

They aren't bitter about finding a replacement. Zherdev leaving is cause for embarassment. They want to try to hide that. They are choked because a 'citizen' of theirs defected because he wasn't happy with the way things were going, and it was a slap in the face for them, no doubt about it.

Please don't tell me they're upset because they have to replace a fifth liner, that's just bs.


Look, don't you think if a player is not playing up to potential a coach can not bench him just to give him a lesson? The problem was that after the draft he forgot he actually need to play and not dance like a figure skater.

Look, I rarely am wrong about something like this, I can tell that this guy is gonna be a floater. The way most fans act here is just disrespectful to Russian hockey fans. This will bite them in the ass when Zherdev will do similar trick on them one day if he ever develops into reliable scorer.

Forgive me for beating a dead horse, but I'd like to go back to the idea of all the Russians buried in the minor league systems, but are too young to realize that they aren't destined for success in North America.

You say there's a ton of Russians in the minors who should be home, and I asked you to name one or two. You countered with the fact that they were too young to know any better for themselves, guided only by greedy agents and the stereotype of life in North America.

I'm just wondering who these players are, that are in North America against their better judgement?

Forgive me for beating a dead horse, but I'd like to go back to the idea of all the Russians buried in the minor league systems, but are too young to realize that they aren't destined for success in North America.

You say there's a ton of Russians in the minors who should be home, and I asked you to name one or two. You countered with the fact that they were too young to know any better for themselves, guided only by greedy agents and the stereotype of life in North America.

I'm just wondering who these players are, that are in North America against their better judgement?

Ok, Svitov is not enough? Or you want me to do a homework and prepare a list for you?

Look, don't you think if a player is not playing up to potential a coach can not bench him just to give him a lesson? The problem was that after the draft he forgot he actually need to play and not dance like a figure skater.


You just backed up my point on this matter. They aren't mad about losing a 5th liner, they're mad about losing Zherdev, a potential top-line player.

He wasn't being benched to be given a lesson, because the fact of the matter is he wasn't given a chance to learn.

Ok, Svitov is not enough? Or you want me to do a homework and prepare a list for you?

A list would be nice.

You just backed up my point on this matter. They aren't mad about losing a 5th liner, they're mad about losing Zherdev, a potential top-line player.

He wasn't being benched to be given a lesson, because the fact of the matter is he wasn't given a chance to learn.

Man, you have no idea what you are talking about. How much of chnce can one keep getting. This is not a minor league, this is Superleague where about 12-14 teams fight for a playoff spot! They do not have a luxury to give too many chances. You say like it is like development school for NHL drafted prospects.

Man, you have no idea what you are talking about. How much of chnce can one keep getting. This is not a minor league, this is Superleague where about 12-14 teams fight for a playoff spot! They do not have a luxury to give too many chances. You say like it is like development school for NHL drafted prospects.

Why put him on the 5th line if he's not going to be given a chance? Why not keep him down in CSKA-2 then?

He wasn't given a chance. He wanted one, wasn't given one. If he wasn't going to be given a chance, like you say:

They do not have a luxury to give too many chances.

Why do they want him back? Why are they fighting to get him back?

I must not get it, because if they weren't prepared to offer him another chance, I couldn't see why they'd want him back.

Plain and simple, Zherdev flying the coop is a black eye on the Suprleague.

Anyone else care to add to this interesting debate?

If he could not play in Moscow, modern European megapolis, I do not see how he can improve much better playing for a team in town of Columbus.

I think this is the most laughable of all of your points. Since when does the size of a city have anything to do with the development of a player?

Based on this, any further comments from you have absolutely no validity.

Go, Aaron, go. Aaron speaks for all Jackets fans on his board on this matter. Keep it up :D I'll chime in when need be.

A list would be nice.

Look, I am really busy to do stuff like that to research to prove something to you. Really, I thought you know hockey a little better.
Instead I will say whose talents are not buried because it will be easy. For the last 4-5 years the only players that did not bury their talents are Samsonov, Kovalchuk, Frolov. Maybe I forgot 1 or 2. But that is it. The rest bunch turned into mediocre type of players. They stopped developing as soon as they moved here, because at the time they had to deal with other issues like learning language and culture!

I didn't see Zherdev floating around the ice vs. my Preds.. He looked like he had been in the league for 5 years already. This kid is amazing and for anyone to say he is not NHL ready needs to watch him play.

Why do they want him back? Why are they fighting to get him back?



Look, I thought you were reading what I wrote!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Look, I am really busy to do stuff like that to research to prove something to you. Really, I thought you know hockey a little better.

I find this hilarious. You ask if I'd like a list, I would, then suddenly you can't produce a list? I find that very, very interesting...

Instead I will say whose talents are not buried because it will be easy. For the last 4-5 years the only players that did not bury their talents are Samsonov, Kovalchuk, Frolov.

The players you named are essentially the few Russians in the last few seasons who had the potential to bust out and become front line players. You can bring up Svitov, but he's much more of a two-way player then those listed, a type of player that typically take longer to develop. Plus, at his young age, he's anything but a bust for now.

The rest bunch turned into mediocre type of players. They stopped developing as soon as they moved here, because at the time they had to deal with other issues like learning language and culture!

Learning the language and culture is part of chasing the dream, winning the Stanley Cup, or making huge amounts of money in North America. Either way, if they didn't want to be here, they wouldn't. Ultimately, it's their choice, and if they were so unhappy, they'd change their situation, <b>much like Zherdev did</b>.

Well, regular season is long in NHL. What, did you expect him to start floating in his second game? Plus the guy was -1 while he had 2 points which means that in 16 minutes he was on the ice Preds scored 3 goals out of 4. I guess as a Preds fan I would have been happy too!



I didn't see Zherdev floating around the ice vs. my Preds.. He looked like he had been in the league for 5 years already. This kid is amazing and for anyone to say he is not NHL ready needs to watch him play.

Look, I thought you were reading what I wrote!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So ultimately it comes to them wanting Zherdev back so they don't have to find a replacement for him?

Geez, if I was running a hockey club, and one of my players left, I'd be more then happy to find a replacement for him, rather then welcome him back.

-1 because the BJ's were using a minor league defense, not to mension theat Z had a goal called back because the net moved as he scored.

I find this hilarious. You ask if I'd like a list, I would, then suddenly you can't produce a list? I find that very, very interesting...


Look, I was being sarcastic, if some of the senses are missing you need to warn me before I go to further discussion with you.

Well, regular season is long in NHL. What, did you expect him to start floating in his second game? Plus the guy was -1 while he had 2 points which means that in 16 minutes he was on the ice Preds scored 3 goals out of 4. I guess as a Preds fan I would have been happy too!

You can look at it that way, or you could look at it like he was the only one contributing offensively for the Jackets on this night.

Glass half empty for you on Zherdev, or is it half full?

Siberian...

If zherdev isnt ready, and floats and sucks...etc...

WHY DO YOU WANT HIM BACK?

Also, one of the Preds goals was an empty net goal.

So ultimately it comes to them wanting Zherdev back so they don't have to find a replacement for him?

Geez, if I was running a hockey club, and one of my players left, I'd be more then happy to find a replacement for him, rather then welcome him back.


Were not you reading? It comes down to money. CSKA will need extra forward to cover the spot!!! You listening??? The problem is not exactly Zherdev. The problem is that every year the kids leave their clubs and the clubs do not get compensation!! They spend money raising their kids in their development systems and they do not get back nothing! Zherdev came to CSKA at the age 13 and CSKA is the one who made him. Now they lose him for nothing. Absolute zero, zilch, whatever you want to call it.
It needs to be stopped right here right now!

Siberian...

If zherdev isnt ready, and floats and sucks...etc...

WHY DO YOU WANT HIM BACK?

Haven't you been reading what he's writing???!?!?!?!?

:teach:

Were not you reading? It comes down to money. CSKA will need extra forward to cover the spot!!! You listening??? The problem is not exactly Zherdev. The problem is that every year the kids leave their clubs and the clubs do not get compensation!! They spend money raising their kids in their development systems and they do not get back nothing! Zherdev came to CSKA at the age 13 and CSKA is the one who made him. Now they lose him for nothing. Absolute zero, zilch, whatever you want to call it.
It needs to be stopped right here right now!


Umm.. $100,000 is the transfer cost I believe. I'll go to Russia and sit the bench for $100,000.

Haven't you been reading what he's writing???!?!?!?!?

:teach:

Lol :joker:

I am trying to make it simple for him. A simple question.

I doubt we are in for a simple answer...

Were not you reading? It comes down to money. CSKA will need extra forward to cover the spot!!! You listening??? The problem is not exactly Zherdev. The problem is that every year the kids leave their clubs and the clubs do not get compensation!! They spend money raising their kids in their development systems and they do not get back nothing! Zherdev came to CSKA at the age 13 and CSKA is the one who made him. Now they lose him for nothing. Absolute zero, zilch, whatever you want to call it.
It needs to be stopped right here right now!

You're looking at it backwards. The Superleague should offer more incentives to keep their kids at home. Hockey Canada isn't upset over all their players that leave the Canadian system to go play in the United States.

CSKA gave Zherdev the natural talent to excel at hockey?

Umm.. $100,000 is the transfer cost I believe. I'll go to Russia and sit the bench for $100,000.

$100 Gs is just fee to IIHF. Only part of it gets to the club I believe. Fetisov says that the next agreement would be that NHL club will be paying at least 1 mil directly to the club. Players of the Ovechkin calibre will be 2-5 mil.

CSKA gave Zherdev the natural talent to excel at hockey?

I think you are losing it. I had little better opinion on your hockey knowledge before. Sorry Aaron, do you really want me to explain this to you (I am being sarcastic, just warning you in case you don't get it)

I think you are losing it. I had little better opinion on your hockey knowledge before. Sorry Aaron, do you really want me to explain this to you (I am being sarcastic, just warning you in case you don't get it)

A part of me wonders if I should reply, but the larger part, the part representing Hockey's Future, decides it'd be best to take the high road.

$100 Gs is just fee to IIHF. Only part of it gets to the club I believe. Fetisov says that the next agreement would be that NHL club will be paying at least 1 mil directly to the club. Players of the Ovechkin calibre will be 2-5 mil.

Good luck trying to stay in the IIHF and competing in international tourements then.

There's no doubt CSKA gave him the place to play, but to say that they made him is far from any reality.

If Zherdev didn't have the attitude that he wanted to excel, to better himself, there wouldn't have been anything CSKA could've done to develop the kid.

Siberian...

If zherdev isnt ready, and floats and sucks...etc...

WHY DO YOU GUYS WANT HIM BACK?

Ohhh LOOK... THIS PERSON BROUGHT UP A GOOD QUESTION!!!!


SIBERIAN ????

Could this be the most read, spirited thread in HF CBJ Forum history?

Methinks...yes!

I think you are losing it. I had little better opinion on your hockey knowledge before. Sorry Aaron, do you really want me to explain this to you (I am being sarcastic, just warning you in case you don't get it)


You are dying out here. Just watching the flow of this thread, it's like you are trying to claw up a cliff and are doing nothing but filing your nails down as you fall. You seem content with offering up very jaded phrases and then attacking those who don't fall line in behind you.

He is very astute in pointing out your flawed statement "CSKA is the one who made him." Unless Zherdev was produced by a CSKA factory, then it's a rash over-generalization. I'm sure if Zherdev would have been born in NA, he would have had similar development and would likely be a bonafide top prospect regardless. And didn't Zherdev give almost 6 years of his life to CSKA? One could easily say, what does Zherdev owe CSKA that they don't owe Zherdev? He gives them a great name internationally by becoming a top 4 pick in a draft. Young kids around Russia see that and associate CSKA with that. There are two sides to every coin. Especially when you speak of people owing corporations/organizations or vice versa. You should look into that.

Could this be the most idiotic argument in a thread in HF CBJ Forum history?

Methinks...yes!

Just made a few small changes...

Back to the article...

Why do so many former NHL players go over to the RSL and put up better numbers? Because the RSL and other Euro leagues are weaker than the NHL, plain and simple. J-F Labbe, toiled in the AHL for years, a back up in the NHL for one year, goes over to the RSL and is posting outstanding numbers. You got Krivokrasov, Kovalenko, Selivanov who played in the NHL for a few seasons, didn't pan out and go back to Russia and play well. You face world class players on a daily basis in the NHL. You face more phyiscal players in the NHL. You play to bigger crowds in the NHL. You send the Jackets (an average...very average NHL team) over to the RSL and have them play the league champion and the RSL squad will be lucky to get a win. There is no contest.

A part of me wonders if I should reply, but the larger part, the part representing Hockey's Future, decides it'd be best to take the high road.


Sorry if I offended you, really did not mean. Nowhere in my posts I said that CSKA gave natural talents to excel at hockey. You simply use this trick used in discussions where you play stupid and make up stuff. When I said that they developed him that means exactly it, CSKA developed him. He might have never moved to from Kyev to CSKA hockey organization and we would have not had discussions about it. He might have been writing books in Ukranian or became anybody you can think of. The way it works in Russia is that the club provide mostly everything. The ice, the uniform, the gear. Sometimes the play with old sticks and jerseys are not brand new, but still. Remember, these clubs do not make any money, they are subsidized by people who love hockey. Tickets in Russia are very cheap. When in Columbus it is so expensive that the ticket could be as valuable as B-day gift in Russia you can buy tickets for 2-3 dollars and watch decent hockey (specially in Moscow) where they mostly care about soccer.

So now, after CSKA raise 200 kids and one of them grows into a decent player but turns out to be an a-hole, who does not have any respect to people who helped him during his young career you would understand the anger of some of the Russian hockey managers.

Back to the article...

The article, like Siberian, is wrought with ill-gotten conclusions. So, the fact that Zherdev can score 2 points in one game against Nashville and hardly any in Russia does what now? Who's the writer trying to convince: Us or himself?

Back to the article...

Why do so many former NHL players go over to the RSL and put up better numbers? Because the RSL and other Euro leagues are weaker than the NHL, plain and simple. J-F Labbe, toiled in the AHL for years, a back up in the NHL for one year, goes over to the RSL and is posting outstanding numbers. You got Krivokrasov, Kovalenko, Selivanov who played in the NHL for a few seasons, didn't pan out and go back to Russia and play well. You face world class players on a daily basis in the NHL. You face more phyiscal players in the NHL. You play to bigger crowds in the NHL. You send the Jackets (an average...very average NHL team) over to the RSL and have them play the league champion and the RSL squad will be lucky to get a win. There is no contest.

Excellent post!

You don't hear of too many Canadian players trying to make the RSL, failing, then settling back into the National Hockey League.

Back to the article...
.

The other part of the article I liked was how they compared Zherdev & Moyzakin's stats, but failed to mention WHAT LINES THEY EACH PLAYED ON....

:joker:

Just a pathetic attempt to save face...

After 20 games he had 4 points (2 goals and 2 assists) with minus 1 rating. I do not want to go too deep in it trying to find out what went wrong, there is just way too many factors.

What I want to point out is that right by the side of a potential superstar(they started season on the same line) there was a player who is having fantastic breakout season - Sergei Mozyakin. 22 year old guy is the sensation of the first half of the regular season in Superleague. Even by just looking at numbers. Mozyakin tops all snipers - 16 goals with plus 13 rating.

So now, after CSKA raise 200 kids and one of them grows into a decent player but turns out to be an a-hole, who does not have any respect to people who helped him during his young career you would understand the anger of some of the Russian hockey managers.


How can Zherdev show CSKA any respect when he's recieved none from them for the past few months?

Let's say you work in an office. One day you go into your cubicle and realize it's smaller. Every other day or so, things are removed from your office and you can't get your work done. You figure out the higher ups don't want you around anymore, and this is their way of letting your know that. You get up, throw the middle finger and walk out, never to work there again.

So now, after CSKA raise 200 kids and one of them grows into a decent player but turns out to be an a-hole, who does not have any respect to people who helped him during his young career you would understand the anger of some of the Russian hockey managers.

That's life. If the Russian hockey managers don't like it, they can gladly refund their pay check or better yet, get another job. Maybe the Russian hockey managers should come over to the U.S. It seems like they are the ones left 'out in the cold' here.

Edit: And it seems like these Russian hockey managers trained Zherdev to be the best. So why are they upset when he takes his skills to the biggest stage possible? Shouldn't they applaud his attempt to be the best?

The other part of the article I liked was how they compared Zherdev & Moyzakin's stats, but failed to mention WHAT LINES THEY EACH PLAYED ON....

:joker:

Just a pathetic attempt to save face...

In all fairness, Mozyakin deserved the icetime he received. Does that mean Zherdev didn't? Not exactly, Zherdev didn't play upto expectations, however, I have no doubt in my mind off-ice factors were combined with problems with the coaching staff.

Either way you look at it, Zherdev is in a better place for development now.

In all fairness, Mozyakin deserved the icetime he received. Does that mean Zherdev didn't? Not exactly, Zherdev didn't play upto expectations, however, I have no doubt in my mind off-ice factors were combined with problems with the coaching staff.

Either way you look at it, Zherdev is in a better place for development now.

Exactly, but my point was about the article, not the situation.

I seems like a big piece of information to leave out. Especially when you are going to include stats.... But not such a big omission when you are trying to save face...

Exactly, but my point was about the article, not the situation.

I seems like a big piece of information to leave out. Especially when you are going to include stats.... But not such a big omission when you are trying to save face...

Fair enough.

Icetime plays a huge part in the amount you are able to contribute to a club.

Can't we all just get along. In 4 years they will be playing on the same line in C-Bus Town anyway. Then we will fully be reaping the benefits that the superior CSKA league has given us :bow: Maybe you can fix Selivanov and send him back over here too. That would be one dynamite line Zherdev-Mozyakin-Selivanov There you go Preds Lets see if Suter and Hamhuis can handle that Boo-yah! :)

Excellent post!

You don't hear of too many Canadian players trying to make the RSL, failing, then settling back into the National Hockey League.


There is nothing excellent in that post. Of course NHL is better then RSL. But not by much and this is changing really quickly. About 5 years ago hockey in Russia was dead. Hockey in Russia was not as spread out as it is in Canada. If you notice that most of the players in Russia come from 3-4 different places. Moscow, Voskresensk, Sverdlovsk (Ekatirinburg) and that is it. Hockey was never as popular as most of the Canadians and American NHL fans think. Russia is thin on the talents because there is not very many hockey places where kids grow up playing hockey. When all the best left there was nothing, hockey was dead!

Now it all comes up from the ashes. This is not logical that Russian hockey survived, it is against everything. It is really growing but still the problem is that Russia can not draw talents from even Europe the same way NHL does yet. That is why they need to protect themselves. And trust me RSL hockey is growing. The level of hockey is getting better.

About Labbe, he is a good goalie but also he plays for an excellent defensive team.

There is nothing excellent in that post.

Again, I'll disagree.

It all went off-topic. The thing is Zherdev is not ready. Expect him to start floating pretty soon. He does not have a strong character and he is soft. This is all my opinion and I just wanted to share it with CBJ fans.

It all went off-topic. The thing is Zherdev is not ready. Expect him to start floating pretty soon. He does not have a strong character and he is soft. This is all my opinion and I just wanted to share it with CBJ fans.

Then, I will ask for a 3rd time.

If he is what you say, why do you guys want him back?

It all went off-topic. The thing is Zherdev is not ready. Expect him to start floating pretty soon. He does not have a strong character and he is soft. This is all my opinion and I just wanted to share it with CBJ fans.

He'll be allowed to float. He isn't going to be expected to be Jere Lehtinen out there, a strong, two-way threat.

He'll be given the same rules as Nash. Go out, have fun, dont kill yourself over being -27 by the end of the season.

If anything this is going to be the biggest learning experience Zherdev will ever have. They'll handle him correctly, because they know how.

It all went off-topic. The thing is Zherdev is not ready. Expect him to start floating pretty soon. He does not have a strong character and he is soft. This is all my opinion and I just wanted to share it with CBJ fans.

How does this situation effect Zherdev captaining the World Junior Squad?

I don't know about the soft part. He takes hits well and has dished it out a few times too. Sure, they weren't arena shaking hits, but he saw the other players along the boards and hit them.

Playing in positive surroundings will only help him grow as a player...there's no way he was getting that in Russia.

Good luck trying to stay in the IIHF and competing in international tourements then.

Do not be so naive. IIHF is praying to Russians. Who are they going to support now? NHL? Or crappy poor federations from Finland, Sweden? You all understand it, no Russia - IIHF tournaments are worthless. Actually I think it will only serve better if Russia damps stupid IIHF

Do not be so naive. IIHF is praying to Russians. Who are they going to support now? NHL? Or crappy poor federations from Finland, Sweden? You all understand it, no Russia - IIHF tournaments are worthless. Actually I think it will only serve better if Russia damps stupid IIHF

Go ahead. Its Russia's loss. No Olympics.

Russia Is bluffing. They will not hold out of a new agreement.

How does this situation effect Zherdev captaining the World Junior Squad?

I don't know. He has not done anything for Junior team Russia, they should have given it to Ovechkin, who is clearly a leader.

Do not be so naive. IIHF is praying to Russians. Who are they going to support now? NHL? Or crappy poor federations from Finland, Sweden? You all understand it, no Russia - IIHF tournaments are worthless. Actually I think it will only serve better if Russia damps stupid IIHF

:shakehead

I don't know. He has not done anything for Junior team Russia, they should have given it to Ovechkin, who is clearly a leader.

Was he ever given a fair shake to?

I don't know. He has not done anything for Junior team Russia

Then why do you guys want him back so bad...???

I am sick of asking this question. It is just sour grapes. Period. End of discussion, unless you care to shed some light on this???

Do not worry. IIHF knows what they are doing. Russian federation will have full IIHF support. I can predict that the team that will want Ovechkin and other stars will have to pay big bucks!

This thread has officially passed our Syracuse Crunch sticky. I feel bad for Pascal and the gang!

Then why do you guys want him back so bad...???

I am sick of asking this question. It is just sour grapes. Period. End of discussion, unless you care to shed some light on this???

Who says I want him back?

This thread has officially passed our Syracuse Crunch sticky. I feel bad for Pascal and the gang!

That is what happens when you have visitors as hockey smart as I am :-)))))

Who says I want him back?

Read what I wrote. Why do you GUYS want him back? CSKA

If they dont want him back, why are they b*tching and moaning?

And if YOU dont want him back, why are you complaining so much?

That is what happens when you have visitors as hockey smart as I am :-)))))

:o

Read what I wrote. Why do you GUYS want him back? CSKA

If they dont want him back, why are they b*tching and moaning?

It is politics. And money too. Do you seriously think that someone will put Zherdev on CSKA roster or Russia roster after this? The teammates do not want him back. It is just the money. The rumour was that in case with Svitov and Chistov their clubs paid about half mil under the table around IIHF. Everybody understands that this IIHF agreement is a joke. Who needs this pocket change for young raising stars that will rotten in worst NHL clubs?

It is politics. And money too. Do you seriously think that someone will put Zherdev on CSKA roster or Russia roster after this? The teammates do not want him back. It is just the money. The rumour was that in case with Svitov and Chistov their clubs paid about half mil under the table around IIHF. Everybody understands that this IIHF agreement is a joke. Who needs this pocket change for young raising stars that will rotten in worst NHL clubs?

Yeah, cause Chistov and Kovalchuk are really just rotting away eh...

Strange, because I could've sworn you said a few posts back you were an intellegent poster.

If they wouldn't put him back on the roster, why go to arbitration on the case?

If they wouldn't put him back on the roster, why go to arbitration on the case?

And thus we are taken back to the original point.

Sour Grapes.

Yeah, cause Chistov and Kovalchuk are really just rotting away eh...

Strange, because I could've sworn you said a few posts back you were an intellegent poster.

If they wouldn't put him back on the roster, why go to arbitration on the case?

Ok, I said that Kovalchuk was not a "buried talent", remember? Or amnesia again?
Chistov is rotting big time. I have followed his career and he just hadn't improved a little bit after he started in Anaheim. He is just turning into high energetic third-liner with no brains. I do not think he has scored a goal this year.

And thus we are taken back to the original point.

Sour Grapes.

Look, what CSKA wants is just a financial reward. The thing is if Columbus paid the money CSKA would just wished Kolya good luck. Now all this scandal. I think at the end BJs will pay...

Look, what CSKA wants is just a financial reward. The thing is if Columbus paid the money CSKA would just wished Kolya good luck. Now all this scandal. I think at the end BJs will pay...

But the CBJ are under NO requirement to pay CSKA anything.

RHF signed the IIHF agreement. We didnt make you sign it.

The scandal is CSKA's refusal to release Zherdev, and now trying to get financial gain... beyond what is stipulated in the IIHF agreement.

If you want more money, your beef is with the IIHF not Columbus. Columbus is just going along with the agreement.

Ok, I said that Kovalchuk was not a "buried talent", remember? Or amnesia again?
Chistov is rotting big time. I have followed his career and he just hadn't improved a little bit after he started in Anaheim. He is just turning into high energetic third-liner with no brains. I do not think he has scored a goal this year.

In the quote I provided from you, you said nothing about buried talent. Why bring those up again?

I wouldn't call Chistov a 'buried talent' either. Have you seen him play any of the games this season, or did you watch him in the post-season when Anaheim made their run?

If you want more money, your beef is with the IIHF not Columbus. Columbus is just going along with the agreement.

An agreement the Federation broke, so quit trying to make us feel sorry for the Russian Federation.

But the CBJ are under NO requirement to pay CSKA anything.

RHF signed the IIHF agreement. We didnt make you sign it.

The scandal is CSKA refusal to release Zherdev, and now trying to get financial gain... beyond what is stipulated in the IIHF agreement.

If you want more money, your beef is with the IIHF not Columbus. Columbus is just going along with the agreement.

Finally! You made it to the point! Zherdev is a holder of the military ticket which makes him a soldier! According to the same agreement you are talking about Kolya can not be in NHL right now! The only way it can be solved if Columbus contributes some donation towards CSKA hockey school!

In the quote I provided from you, you said nothing about buried talent. Why bring those up again?

I wouldn't call Chistov a 'buried talent' either. Have you seen him play any of the games this season, or did you watch him in the post-season when Anaheim made their run?

I have seen most of the Anaheim games. The kid is clearly in a big slump. 25+ games and no goal says a lot! He was a scorer, now I don't know what he turned into. He was much better in the beginning of his rookie season and of course he looked good in the playoffs last year, but it was the whole Ducks team that looked good because of their goalie with lacrosse equipment.

Finally! You made it to the point! Zherdev is a holder of the military ticket which makes him a soldier! According to the same agreement you are talking about Kolya can not be in NHL right now! The only way it can be solved if Columbus contributes some donation towards CSKA hockey school!

If Zherdev was a soldier. Why did the Russian's allow him to leave the country? He wouldnt have been allowed to leave the Country with a Military Passport?

Why wasnt he stopped in Canada? Or Before entering the US?

Why have CSKA provided NO evidence that he was in the Military?

Finally! You made it to the point! Zherdev is a holder of the military ticket which makes him a soldier! According to the same agreement you are talking about Kolya can not be in NHL right now! The only way it can be solved if Columbus contributes some donation towards CSKA hockey school!

Do I dare ask where these supposed papers are?

The reason Zherdev was allowed to skate with Columbus were based on the Federation's inability to produce these mysterious papers.

So do I dare ask...where are they?

Do I dare ask where these supposed papers are?

The reason Zherdev was allowed to skate with Columbus were based on the Federation's inability to produce these mysterious papers.

So do I dare ask...where are they?

Hey, I don't know everything, but the thing is they exist. Even Zherdev's agent confirms they do exist.

Hey, I don't know everything, but the thing is they exist. Even Zherdev's agent confirms they do exist.

Guess what. There are papers signed by officials in the Federation saying Zherdev is allowed to leave and come play hockey in North America.

Let me find them for you...

Oh geez, I can't seem to find them, but I assure you they exist.

Hey, I don't know everything, but the thing is they exist. Even Zherdev's agent confirms they do exist.

Is this the same agent that said Zherdev was happy to be playing in Russia?

If Zherdev was a soldier. Why did the Russian's allow him to leave the country? He wouldnt have been allowed to leave the Country with a Military Passport?

Why wasnt he stopped in Canada? Or Before entering the US?

Why have CSKA provided NO evidence that he was in the Military?

This is not true. You guys are fed up with bunch of lie and like blind puppies nively believe it.
In Russia you have an internal pasport. If you want to travel over the border you get external pasport. So you can have 2 pasports. When you get to military your internal pasport is replaced by military ticket but the external can not be taken away from you.

Where was he supposed to be stopped and by whom? What do you think, there are people with dogs everywhere trying to stop you from leaving country?

This is not true. You guys are fed up with bunch of lie and like blind puppies nively believe it.
In Russia you have an internal pasport. If you want to travel over the border you get external pasport. So you can have 2 pasports. When you get to military your internal pasport is replaced by military ticket but the external can not be taken away from you.

Where was he supposed to be stopped and by whom? What do you think, there are people with dogs everywhere trying to stop you from leaving country?

Would it not have been viewed as trying to flee military obligation, and not be allowed to board the plane?

Where was he supposed to be stopped and by whom? What do you think, there are people with dogs everywhere trying to stop you from leaving country?

Oh, I dont know. Maybe in Moscow airport... Maybe when he tried to leave the Country...

Maybe when he tried to clear customs in Canada, or The United States.

per espn article...

The fact Russian officials allowed Zherdev to leave the country and did not ask border agents in Canada or the U.S. to stop him further weakens the validity of their claims.

Is this the same agent that said Zherdev was happy to be playing in Russia?

See, you don't even know the story and try to oppose me. The guys name is Alexander Tyzhnykh, former back up of Tretiak in CSKA. He moved to Canada in 1989, played in minors. Opened some schools in Canada, used word Soviet in advertisement campaign but I do not think he was successfull. Then he decided to turn agent. Living in Ottawa he traveled to Moscow once in a while, looking for potential customers. Because he had connections in CSKA he got Zherdev. Now he acted like an idiot with stealing the kid from CSKA you can count his career in Russia over. I think he was afraid that if there is lockout he was gonna lose a lot of money too, because he felt that Zherdev stock started dropping.

Would it not have been viewed as trying to flee military obligation, and not be allowed to board the plane?

How can you tell? The guy has the document only needed to leave - the
external pasport with Canadian visa! Where are these stupid questions even come from.

I think he was afraid that if there is lockout he was gonna lose a lot of money too, because he felt that Zherdev stock started dropping.

How would he loose money on Zherdev's stock dropping. This was all After the draft... and His contract was signed months ago.

How can you tell? The guy has the document only needed to leave - the
external pasport with Canadian visa! Where are these stupid questions even come from.

I guess Russia must be behind on the times, because I know when I leave the country overseas, my passport brings up absolutely every detail/condition imaginable that needs to be met in order for me to leave.

I'd imagine military obligation would be one of these, but apparently I'm wrong.

What we don't seem to be wrong on is the fact that Russia did not ask Canada to hold Zherdev at the border for illegally fleeing military duty.

Wow... That is one awful (not to mention uninformed) piece.

:eek:

How can you tell? The guy has the document only needed to leave - the
external pasport with Canadian visa! Where are these stupid questions even come from.

so you are saying that any russian military person can just get up and leave the country?

Wow... That is one awful (not to mention uninformed) piece.

:eek:

Feel free to expand on that thought...

What we don't seem to be wrong on is the fact that Russia did not ask Canada to hold Zherdev at the border for illegally fleeing military duty.

Aaron, listen. I had a privilege to have some conversation with you before, I really thought you are a smart kid. But now you come up with questions which I can't call anything but "dumb and dumber'. What are you trying to say here? You really seem to think that when Zherdev popped up in Ottawa the whole Russia woke up and started looking for him? Who is Zherdev? 19 year old boy who plays hockey and happens to be popular among hockey fans in Columbus and some hockey followers. He never has seen a canadian official since he got to Ottawa. He jumped to private jet right after he got a US visa.

so you are saying that any russian military person can just get up and leave the country?

Of course!

Aaron, listen. I had a privilege to have some conversation with you before, I really thought you are a smart kid. But now you come up with questions which I can't call anything but "dumb and dumber'. What are you trying to say here? You really seem to think that when Zherdev popped up in Ottawa the whole Russia woke up and started looking for him? Who is Zherdev? 19 year old boy who plays hockey and happens to be popular among hockey fans in Columbus and some hockey followers. He never has seen a canadian official since he got to Ottawa. He jumped to private jet right after he got a US visa.

We've had conversations? None that I can recall to be perfectly honest, especially considering I don't usually contribute more then one or two posts to a thread, and I've very rarely joined any chats.

I figured if Russia was going to make a big stink about losing Zherdev, they would've prevented the loss in the first place....

Of course!

Interesting stuff. Learn something new everyday!

Interesting stuff. Learn something new everyday!

Who told you otherwise?

*Looks at this Thread*


http://www.classicgaming.com/features/articles/70sroom/indians-thumb.jpg

We've had conversations? None that I can recall to be perfectly honest, especially considering I don't usually contribute more then one or two posts to a thread, and I've very rarely joined any chats.

I figured if Russia was going to make a big stink about losing Zherdev, they would've prevented the loss in the first place....

Yes, we did. This was not on the forum, but I will not remind you where it was, sorry.

Yes, we did. This was not on the forum, but I will not remind you where it was, sorry.

Why wouldn't you?

I'm calling you out right now to tell me where we've had conversations, because aside from Metro, there's no one else I talk to.

Of course!

Not true at all.

If Zherdev were in the Russian army, he would have had a military passport (not civilian) and would not have been able to leave the country without military authorization to do so.

Of course he saw Canadian authorities before getting a U.S. visa. Otherwise he never could have cleared customs.

So, Zherdev is a worthless piece of crap and nobody in Russia cares that he left? Then what are you (and so many other Russians) crying about?

Yes, we did. This was not on the forum, but I will not remind you where it was, sorry.

Have you checked the children?:eek:

Man, this one really took off, huh? Can't believe I've been missing all these juicy oppurtunities to instigate and antagonize. Don't stop, don't stop!

Feel free to expand on that thought...



Why? The guy is completely missing the point. I don't want to waste everyone's time by stating the obvious.

Columbus wants Zherdev to play for the team not because he's the best pro-ready option right, it is because he is an investment that will play huge dividents if prepared well.

There is nothing wrong with Mozyakin whatsoever - but Columbus is looking to nurture the guy who projects to be a franchise player and if that means growing pains then fine - they don't necessarily need a Mozyakin type who may look better now but not amount to a hill of beans long-term.

The author here is naive, because he doesn't think as a scout. Why do you think the Staals, the Hortons, the Fleurys, the Bergerons and the Zherdevs are in the NHL right now while the likes of Somervuoris and Pierre Hedins can barely get a sniff? Is the NHL a sub-par league?

Well, absolutely not. The NHL teams and their scouting departments are ahead of the game - they want to play the kids, develop them and familiarize them with the league by surrounding them with elite, veteran talent. It's an issue of investment. Mozyakin can score 50 goals in Russia if he can, but he's 22 years old and past the stage of being considered a possible blue-chipper.

People call me pro-Superleague, but it's one thing to have biases and another to let them cloud your mind to such extent that you come off sounding completely uninformed.

Is there a version in Russian of this article or did he write this in English? I'm just curious if this guy can frase his points better in his native tongue.

Not true at all.

If Zherdev were in the Russian army, he would have had a military passport (not civilian) and would not have been able to leave the country without military authorization to do so.

Of course he saw Canadian authorities before getting a U.S. visa. Otherwise he never could have cleared customs.

So, Zherdev is a worthless piece of crap and nobody in Russia cares that he left? Then what are you (and so many other Russians) crying about?

You lie as you go. Caring military pasport (it is called military ticket) does not mean you can't have external pasport. When you have your external pasport and when you cross Russian border there is no way of telling if you serve in the Army! Period.

Why wouldn't you?

I'm calling you out right now to tell me where we've had conversations, because aside from Metro, there's no one else I talk to.

You emailed me once regarding some Russian players I believe. This was maybe half a year ago. I have no idea where you got my email adres from.

Why? The guy is completely missing the point. I don't want to waste everyone's time by stating the obvious.

Columbus wants Zherdev to play for the team not because he's the best pro-ready option right, it is because he is an investment that will play huge dividents if prepared well.

There is nothing wrong with Mozyakin whatsoever - but Columbus is looking to nurture the guy who projects to be a franchise player and if that means growing pains then fine - they don't necessarily need a Mozyakin type who may look better now but not amount to a hill of beans long-term.

The author here is naive, because he doesn't think as a scout. Why do you think the Staals, the Hortons, the Fleurys, the Bergerons and the Zherdevs are in the NHL right now while the likes of Somervuoris and Pierre Hedins can barely get a sniff? Is the NHL a sub-par league?

Well, absolutely not. The NHL teams and their scouting departments are ahead of the game - they want to play the kids, develop them and familiarize them with the league by surrounding them with elite, veteran talent. It's an issue of investment. Mozyakin can score 50 goals in Russia if he can, but he's 22 years old and past the stage of being considered a possible blue-chipper.

People call me pro-Superleague, but it's one thing to have biases and another to let them cloud your mind to such extent that you come off sounding completely uninformed.

Is there a version in Russian of this article or did he write this in English? I'm just curious if this guy can frase his points better in his native tongue.

I think you are just one maximalist thinking that scouts always make best decisions. You know it is not true so your whole post don't mean a thing.

It has been stated that Zherdev is a Russian military deserter and fled the country illegally. Not understanding Russian law, or international law, I would like to ask a question about how this is being handled.

Why are a Russian hockey team and the IIHF involved in a criminal military desertion? Shouldn't the government authorities in charge of the military be pursuing this fugitive?

Hey, brother, what's with the pissing match? You're obviously intelligent enough to know that no one but Zherdev is responsible for being here, and in light of our team's woes, the guys on our board have every reason to be happy about seeing him here. He was our number one draft pick, after all. We know the economic benefits of playing in the NHL probably do damage to your talent pool, but that's pretty much the way of the world, right? Everyone's out for the money. I just don't see why you're taking it personal enough to come onto our boards, acting all salty? WTF?

It has been stated that Zherdev is a Russian military deserter and fled the country illegally. Not understanding Russian law, or international law, I would like to ask a question about how this is being handled.

Why are a Russian hockey team and the IIHF involved in a criminal military desertion? Shouldn't the government authorities in charge of the military be pursuing this fugitive?

Who says they(government authorities) do not?

Hey, brother, what's with the pissing match? You're obviously intelligent enough to know that no one but Zherdev is responsible for being here, and in light of our team's woes, the guys on our board have every reason to be happy about seeing him here. He was our number one draft pick, after all. We know the economic benefits of playing in the NHL probably do damage to your talent pool, but that's pretty much the way of the world, right? Everyone's out for the money. I just don't see why you're taking it personal enough to come onto our boards, acting all salty? WTF?

Ok. Bye then!

Who says they(government authorities) do not?

No one is saying they aren't, but no one is saying they are. There has been a LOT of press coverage about this but I haven't seen a word about the Russian government contacting the US government regarding a deserter from the Russian military getting a visa into the country and living a high profile life.

The way that the US handles things in ths day and age, along with our government's close relationship... If this kid were a criminal, he'd already be in detention!

Aaron, listen. I had a privilege to have some conversation with you before, I really thought you are a smart kid. But now you come up with questions which I can't call anything but "dumb and dumber'. What are you trying to say here? You really seem to think that when Zherdev popped up in Ottawa the whole Russia woke up and started looking for him? Who is Zherdev? 19 year old boy who plays hockey and happens to be popular among hockey fans in Columbus and some hockey followers.

You sound like Tikhonov.

I think that this is the problem with the Russian execs' attitude on Russian players. They should, indeed, care about them. They do the exact opposite than the NHL - the NHL nourishes them, while the kinds of Tikhonov have this opinion that kids should crawl through mud first and to earn respect. I know that this is the way it has been before, the way it was for Mikhailov and the folks, but times have changed. This is ancient thinking - it doesn't work. These kids will be millionaires, they will be role models and they will be superstars.

And worst of all, they will remember the treatment and when the time comes for Russia to invite their superstars to represent the country in the Olympics, the likes of Zherdev will say "yeah? Screw you." Why did Mogilny and Zubov say "screw you - I'm not going"? It's because of the treatment - the kind of attitude that speaks "who is Zherdev - he's just a 19-year old kid".

Well, guess what - Zherdev might be an ugly duckling at this time, but you might be in for a big surprise. The ugly duckling might grow into a rather good-looking one. I know that Alex Mogilny did after Viktor Tikhonov punched him in the stomach after he got all pissy on him.

It pains me, because I'm a Russian hockey fan and I see this attitude of denial on the part of the Russian hockey execs who dimiss and ignore these kids, but it's the fans who wind up paying for it. Because 10 years from now if Russia finishes dead last at the World Championships, all kinds of questions will pop up - whose fault is it? These kids are just lazy aren't they? They don't have the heart. Well, guess what - the ones who are at fault will be the first ones to point the finger. The only way to earn respect is by showing respect and this is what so many people (including the author of this article) does not seem to understand.

The NHL has it right - meanwhile Russia can continue to gush over the Sergei Mozyakins who, while may amount more than a hill of beans, will likely be checking types at best when it is all said and done (if NHL does indeed come along for them).

This is embarassing - Zherdev has my full support. He has a bright future ahead of him that will NOT be in Russia (I hope), so he might as well move on. And I very much doubt that he wanted to stay in Russia this season - I'm sure that they crammed his brain full of propagandistic garbage during the summer anyway.

I guess he's simply not a patriot, eh? But Maxim Balmochnyk is - and where is he now? I'm really not sure.

I think you are just one maximalist thinking that scouts always make best decisions. You know it is not true so your whole post don't mean a thing.


There is no such thing as a perfect scout - there is also no such thing as a perfect way to analyze a player.

However there is a fine line between thinking long-term and thinking short-term. Get it through your head.

No one is saying they aren't, but no one is saying they are. There has been a LOT of press coverage about this but I haven't seen a word about the Russian government contacting the US government regarding a deserter from the Russian military getting a visa into the country and living a high profile life.

The way that the US handles things in ths day and age, along with our government's close relationship... If this kid were a criminal, he'd already be in detention!

You're still here.....:)
:joker:

You emailed me once regarding some Russian players I believe. This was maybe half a year ago. I have no idea where you got my email adres from.

That doesn't exactly sound like 'having conversations'.

You sound like Tikhonov.

I think that this is the problem with the Russian execs' attitude on Russian players. They should, indeed, care about them. They do the exact opposite than the NHL - the NHL nourishes them, while the kinds of Tikhonov have this opinion that kids should crawl through mud first and to earn respect. I know that this is the way it has been before, the way it was for Mikhailov and the folks, but times have changed. This is ancient thinking - it doesn't work. These kids will be millionaires, they will be role models and they will be superstars.

And worst of all, they will remember the treatment and when the time comes for Russia to invite their superstars to represent the country in the Olympics, the likes of Zherdev will say "yeah? Screw you." Why did Mogilny and Zubov say "screw you - I'm not going"? It's because of the treatment - the kind of attitude that speaks "who is Zherdev - he's just a 19-year old kid".

Well, guess what - Zherdev might be an ugly duckling at this time, but you might be in for a big surprise. The ugly duckling might grow into a rather good-looking one. I know that Alex Mogilny did after Viktor Tikhonov punched him in the stomach after he got all pissy on him.

It pains me, because I'm a Russian hockey fan and I see this attitude of denial on the part of the Russian hockey execs who dimiss and ignore these kids, but it's the fans who wind up paying for it. Because 10 years from now if Russia finishes dead last at the World Championships, all kinds of questions will pop up - whose fault is it? These kids are just lazy aren't they? They don't have the heart. Well, guess what - the ones who are at fault will be the first ones to point the finger. The only way to earn respect is by showing respect and this is what so many people (including the author of this article) does not seem to understand.

The NHL has it right - meanwhile Russia can continue to gush over the Sergei Mozyakins who, while may amount more than a hill of beans, will likely be checking types at best when it is all said and done (if NHL does indeed come along for them).

This is embarassing - Zherdev has my full support. He has a bright future ahead of him that will NOT be in Russia (I hope), so he might as well move on. And I very much doubt that he wanted to stay in Russia this season - I'm sure that they crammed his brain full of propagandistic garbage during the summer anyway.

I guess he's simply not a patriot, eh? But Maxim Balmochnyk is - and where is he now? I'm really not sure.


I don't care what I sound to you, though it would be strange if you really knew what Tikhonov sound like. The guy is a professional, loves hockey more then anything else. Laying in hospital with heart problems and still caring about his team. Look, he is old dude with old mentality, that is where I will agree with you.

What about Balmochnykh? Why is he a patriot may I ask?

That doesn't exactly sound like 'having conversations'.

Actually we were emailing back and force but whatever....

You lie as you go. Caring military pasport (it is called military ticket) does not mean you can't have external pasport. When you have your external pasport and when you cross Russian border there is no way of telling if you serve in the Army! Period.

Boy, you get snotty when people point out you don't know what you're talking about, don't you?

For the record, visit http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/missions/mir_trackers_010313.html and you'll learn that:

"Russian citizens have three types of passports: green (diplomatic), blue (business) and red (regular). Cosmonaut Zaletin, like all members of the Russian military, has a blue passport. Blue passport holders can only get visas through the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs -- a lengthy and complicated process. Musa Manarov replaced Zaletin on the Mir tracking mission."
(Underlines added for emphasis in this context.)

There is no such thing as a perfect scout - there is also no such thing as a perfect way to analyze a player.

However there is a fine line between thinking long-term and thinking short-term. Get it through your head.

What are you talking about? There is no lines. There are just things scouts know and things they don't know and have to guess. That is all they base their decisions and opinions upon. Why in the heck Zherdev is a scouts player and Mozyakin is not? You suck it out of NOTHING. How about Datsyuk? Drafted in what round? Now center #1 of one of the best NHL clubs? How about mister Daigle? So stop this fantasies about ideallistic world you are living in.

I don't care what I sound to you, though it would be strange if you really knew what Tikhonov sound like. The guy is a professional, loves hockey more then anything else. Laying in hospital with heart problems and still caring about his team. Look, he is old dude with old mentality, that is where I will agree with you.

What about Balmochnykh? Why is he a patriot may I ask?

I know what Tikhonov sounds like. I've interviewed the guy. And I don't doubt that he loves hockey - he's coaching hockey, why wouldn't he? I think his mentality though is all wrong and he still thinks that hockey today is what it was in the 70's.

As for Balmochnykh - he's a very pro-superleague guy (or used to be). He went to play in the CHL juniors a few years ago and went back to Russia, saying that the system in North America was crap.
They must've loved him for it, but he didn't turn out so well.

Ok, I said that Kovalchuk was not a "buried talent", remember? Or amnesia again?
Chistov is rotting big time. I have followed his career and he just hadn't improved a little bit after he started in Anaheim. He is just turning into high energetic third-liner with no brains. I do not think he has scored a goal this year.


And suddenly you've become a scout or you can predict the future?

Hmmm...

He's 20 years old - no smart hockey-knowing person discounts a talented player because he struggles.

Actually we were emailing back and force but whatever....

Must not have been me then I guess. I only ever inquired once about Russian prospects via email, and never striking up a conversation with that gentleman as per my recollection, rather choosing to go the route of PM's on HF.

Boy, you get snotty when people point out you don't know what you're talking about, don't you?

For the record, visit http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/missions/mir_trackers_010313.html and you'll learn that:

"Russian citizens have three types of passports: green (diplomatic), blue (business) and red (regular). Cosmonaut Zaletin, like all members of the Russian military, has a blue passport. Blue passport holders can only get visas through the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs -- a lengthy and complicated process. Musa Manarov replaced Zaletin on the Mir tracking mission."
(Underlines added for emphasis in this context.)

OMG, that is the fuuniest thing I read in the whole day. 3 pasports? What the heck is the business passports? Someone played a big joke on the author of this crap. Thanks for finding it! I had a good laugh, that is the type of information you get this stupid knowledge.

No one is saying they aren't, but no one is saying they are. There has been a LOT of press coverage about this but I haven't seen a word about the Russian government contacting the US government regarding a deserter from the Russian military getting a visa into the country and living a high profile life.

The way that the US handles things in ths day and age, along with our government's close relationship... If this kid were a criminal, he'd already be in detention!

Sorry about the bad form, but I'm bumping my own message here in hopes to get some response.

I know what Tikhonov sounds like. I've interviewed the guy. And I don't doubt that he loves hockey - he's coaching hockey, why wouldn't he? I think his mentality though is all wrong and he still thinks that hockey today is what it was in the 70's.

As for Balmochnykh - he's a very pro-superleague guy (or used to be). He went to play in the CHL juniors a few years ago and went back to Russia, saying that the system in North America was crap.
They must've loved him for it, but he didn't turn out so well.

Look, the guy went to North America at the age 19 and he never was any good since. As far as I know he still struggles in some crappy league somewhere in Albany I do not know why you even bring him up to this duscussion, because it is one of the examples when a player with talents self destructs himself in N America.

Sorry about the bad form, but I'm bumping my own message here in hopes to get some response.

If you ask me, I have no idea. I don't care about army issue at all. It is just a tool in this conflict between CSKA and NHL.

What are you talking about? There is no lines. There are just things scouts know and things they don't know and have to guess. That is all they base their decisions and opinions upon. Why in the heck Zherdev is a scouts player and Mozyakin is not? You suck it out of NOTHING. How about Datsyuk? Drafted in what round? Now center #1 of one of the best NHL clubs? How about mister Daigle? So stop this fantasies about ideallistic world you are living in.

Heh... Well, let's just follow your example, scrap the draft, scrap scouting and draft players based on their productivity.

Yeah - that'll go very far.

And it is very convenient to utilize examples that serve as exceptions. There are always late bloomers (such as Datsyuk), but they represent a small percentage of players.

And "fine line" is an expression - look it up, might serve your time well. Speaking of expressions - also look up "old fogeyism" - it's about you.

Look, the guy went to North America at the age 19 and he never was any good since. As far as I know he still struggles in some crappy league somewhere in Albany I do not know why you even bring him up to this duscussion, because it is one of the examples when a player with talents self destructs himself in N America.

Yeah - that's why.

Look, the guy went to North America at the age 19 and he never was any good since. As far as I know he still struggles in some crappy league somewhere in Albany I do not know why you even bring him up to this duscussion, because it is one of the examples when a player with talents self destructs himself in N America.

Exactly why does playing in North America equate to a destruction in talent?? Please explain that?

I know what Tikhonov sounds like. I've interviewed the guy. And I don't doubt that he loves hockey - he's coaching hockey, why wouldn't he? I think his mentality though is all wrong and he still thinks that hockey today is what it was in the 70's.

As for Balmochnykh - he's a very pro-superleague guy (or used to be). He went to play in the CHL juniors a few years ago and went back to Russia, saying that the system in North America was crap.
They must've loved him for it, but he didn't turn out so well.

It seems that you are a bit lying here. I assume you might have interviewed him but I really doubt he has said something in interview bad I doubt he has said anything you can have against him. So you are just bluffing. The guy is the nicest in interviews. I have no idea why North American fans think of him as an animal, you are not the first one. But it is simply not true. He is a very nice in interviews and I have seen many. What he does is punish players for the on-ice attitude. He hates laziness in players.
He has some weird views on domestic hockey, and some think they are not democratic but he was always right. If they listened to him 12 years back the Russian hockey would not have been in a phase of death from 1991 to 2000

See, you don't even know the story and try to oppose me. The guys name is Alexander Tyzhnykh, former back up of Tretiak in CSKA. He moved to Canada in 1989, played in minors. Opened some schools in Canada, used word Soviet in advertisement campaign but I do not think he was successfull. Then he decided to turn agent. Living in Ottawa he traveled to Moscow once in a while, looking for potential customers. Because he had connections in CSKA he got Zherdev. Now he acted like an idiot with stealing the kid from CSKA you can count his career in Russia over. I think he was afraid that if there is lockout he was gonna lose a lot of money too, because he felt that Zherdev stock started dropping.

"Now he acted like an idiot with stealing the kid from CSKA you can count his career in Russia over. " That is true. Tyzhnykh is playing his career. That is not the way he wanted it. He has a lot of clients across the clubs in Russia and he is waslking on a thin wire. He has a great credibility across Russia but will have to manage very well with this « desertion» as call the russians newspaper the Zherdev departure.

It seems that you are a bit lying here. I assume you might have interviewed him but I really doubt he has said something in interview bad I doubt he has said anything you can have against him. So you are just bluffing. The guy is the nicest in interviews. I have no idea why North American fans think of him as an animal, you are not the first one. But it is simply not true. He is a very nice in interviews and I have seen many. What he does is punish players for the on-ice attitude. He hates laziness in players.
He has some weird views on domestic hockey, and some think they are not democratic but he was always right. If they listened to him 12 years back the Russian hockey would not have been in a phase of death from 1991 to 2000
Seeing you totally took his post out of context, I'd say you're a bit out of line calling the man a liar. I'm starting to think you're full of crap, bud, or you've got some personal issues to deal with. Once again, what's with the attitude?

It seems that you are a bit lying here. I assume you might have interviewed him but I really doubt he has said something in interview bad I doubt he has said anything you can have against him. So you are just bluffing. The guy is the nicest in interviews. I have no idea why North American fans think of him as an animal, you are not the first one. But it is simply not true. He is a very nice in interviews and I have seen many. What he does is punish players for the on-ice attitude. He hates laziness in players.
He has some weird views on domestic hockey, and some think they are not democratic but he was always right. If they listened to him 12 years back the Russian hockey would not have been in a phase of death from 1991 to 2000

I don't think Tikhonov is an animal, nor does he act like one. He acts fine.

What he can no longer do is handle the kids of this generation - he's clueless (although he was clueless before - he was clueless with Tretiak and he was clueless with Mogilny). He doesn't understand these kids and cannot develop them properly.

It is very well-known in hockey circles - but he's been in the professional hockey business for so long, he won't get out until he (as they say in Russia - "protyanet nogi").

I have nothing against his everyday personality - he may as well be kissing babies and petting little puppies most of his time, but that is not what I'm talking about. And I don't bluff - I am always straight-forward.

"Now he acted like an idiot with stealing the kid from CSKA you can count his career in Russia over. " That is true. Tyzhnykh is playing his career. That is not the way he wanted it. He has a lot of clients across the clubs in Russia and he is waslking on a thin wire. He has a great credibility across Russia but will have to manage very well with this « desertion» as call the russians newspaper the Zherdev departure.

I am telling you. The guy is an idiot. He won't be allowed to any hockey places anymore. The guy was playing in CSKA half a season. What was the reason to take the kid away from there and throw him into flame of struggling BJ's right now? I think his career working with kids in Russia is over!

"Now he acted like an idiot with stealing the kid from CSKA you can count his career in Russia over. " That is true. Tyzhnykh is playing his career. That is not the way he wanted it. He has a lot of clients across the clubs in Russia and he is waslking on a thin wire. He has a great credibility across Russia but will have to manage very well with this « desertion» as call the russians newspaper the Zherdev departure.

I don't understand this whole "Tyzhnykh stole the kid from the CSKA" bit. I mean, the kid said "screw it" and left, right?

I don't think Tikhonov is an animal, nor does he act like one. He acts fine.

What he can no longer do is handle the kids of this generation - he's clueless (although he was clueless before - he was clueless with Tretiak and he was clueless with Mogilny). He doesn't understand these kids and cannot develop them properly.

It is very well-known in hockey circles - but he's been in the professional hockey business for so long, he won't get out until he (as they say in Russia - "protyanet nogi").

I have nothing against his everyday personality - he may as well be kissing babies and petting little puppies most of his time, but that is not what I'm talking about. And I don't bluff - I am always straight-forward.

Of course you are bluffing. You said the mainstream stuff what you heard somewhere, that is people who know nothing about him write. Rumours, gossips and some yellowish media looking for quick sensation. They try to portray him as a little old fart, dictator etc. All he is really is a hardworking old dude with his own principles. I do not think he beat anybody with the stick or ***** 12 year olds. BTW, Serezha Fedorov, real professional in this sport said that he would love to play for Tikhonov because he is one of the greatest. Tikhonov likes pros and if you are a whiner you are gonna get it in full from him.

Let me read your interview, you say you base your knowledge of the the way Tikhonovs talks as you interviewed him. Let me read it and see you are not bluffing.

I don't understand this whole "Tyzhnykh stole the kid from the CSKA" bit. I mean, the kid said "screw it" and left, right?

What are you, serious? Tyzhnykh wasn't getting a penny off money Zherdev was earning in CSKA. Do you think if Tyzhnykh said, hey Nick, learn here, in CSKA, you will benefit in the future, I do not think Nikolai would go to US right now. The agent prearranged the whole thing. I think Nikolai trusted Tyzhnykh too much, too bad for him.

What are you, serious? Tyzhnykh wasn't getting a penny off money Zherdev was earning in CSKA. Do you think if Tyzhnykh said, hey Nick, learn here, in CSKA, you will benefit in the future, I do not think Nikolai would go to US right now. The agent prearranged the whole thing. I think Nikolai trusted Tyzhnykh too much, too bad for him.

Oh, I'm quite certain it didn't hurt his feelings, but no one put a gun to the kid's head, ya know. Russia's a free country now, right?

Of course you are bluffing. You said the mainstream stuff what you heard somewhere, that is people who know nothing about him write. Rumours, gossips and some yellowish media looking for quick sensation. They try to portray him as a little old fart, dictator etc. All he is really is a hardworking old dude with his own principles. I do not think he beat anybody with the stick or ***** 12 year olds. BTW, Serezha Fedorov, real professional in this sport said that he would love to play for Tikhonov because he is one of the greatest. Tikhonov likes pros and if you are a whiner you are gonna get it in full from him.

Let me read your interview, you say you base your knowledge of the the way Tikhonovs talks as you interviewed him. Let me read it and see you are not bluffing.

Well, I won't go out of my way to prove anything to you.

I've been in the business long enough and I have enough contacts to know what I'm talking about.

And, no I don't base my knowledge based on what Mr. Tikhonov has said. The only reason I mentioned that I spoke to Tikhonov is because you said "had you heard him speak" - and I said that I did.

What I know about Tikhonov is what I have gathered in my time of experience in writing and scouting. By that virtue I have formed my opinion.

That said, I am sure you have your reasons to form your own. But I do have doubts about that, because you simply rely on ad hominem.

As far as I know he still struggles in some crappy league somewhere in Albany I do not know why you even bring him up to this duscussion, because it is one of the examples when a player with talents self destructs himself in N America.

Because every player that stays in Russia lives up to their exact potential, isn't that right Siberian?

Oh, I'm quite certain it didn't hurt his feelings, but no one put a gun to the kid's head, ya know. Russia's a free country now, right?

Of course not. I am sure all he needed to do is say look, they treat you like crap here. You go there and they will treat you like king. It does not matter you are playing like crap, they simply do not give you opportunity here. In Columbus you are gonna get full support and respect, you are a new Kovalcuk in making. Stuff like that. He is only 19, perhaps he does not understand the full situation, but the situation is such that he has lost all the respect of Russian fans, that is the saddest thing.

[QUOTE=Dr_Chimera]Well, I won't go out of my way to prove anything to you.
[QUOTE]

Amen

Because every player that stays in Russia lives up to their exact potential, isn't that right Siberian?

I don't know. How many players did we see in Russia with a good potential not taken to North America?

Amen

The facts are right under your nose - whether or not you wish to accept them or simply ignore them is up to you.

The reason why I'm posting here is actually somewhat off-topic from the whole thread. I see a problem with the way these kids are coached and the way they wind up turning their backs on the country when it comes to playing at tournaments.

I see a correlation here with treatment and Alex Mogilny is a good example - it doesn't take much more than a google search to know what his beef is.

But it was so and so it remains - Russia shoots itself in the foot over and over again. And the reason why it keeps on doing it is denial - which, at last check, is not only a river in Egypt.

On that cliché - I retire.

[QUOTE=Dr_Chimera]Well, I won't go out of my way to prove anything to you.
[QUOTE]

Amen


Amen along the same fact you wouldn't prove your list to me earlier in the day?

OMG, that is the fuuniest thing I read in the whole day. 3 pasports? What the heck is the business passports? Someone played a big joke on the author of this crap. Thanks for finding it! I had a good laugh, that is the type of information you get this stupid knowledge.

That's what I like, a person who responds to facts with facts.

You've obviously never travelled internationally and clearly have no idea what you're talking about. You have no facts to offer, and no coherent arguments.

Your only value to this board is comic-relif - it is hilarious you are so angry at Zherdev that you're desperetly flailing about like this. Do please stick around, so we can laugh at you every time he scores.

You have no facts to offer, and no coherent arguments.


Ding! Ding! Ding!

You should really sit back and view this thread and respond only in a minimalist fashion (as I have). It's rather comical. It's as if you have several intelligent posters, a few lurkers and one big idiot. I won't give away the whole story line and tell you who the idiot is though ;)

The facts are right under your nose - whether or not you wish to accept them or simply ignore them is up to you.

The reason why I'm posting here is actually somewhat off-topic from the whole thread. I see a problem with the way these kids are coached and the way they wind up turning their backs on the country when it comes to playing at tournaments.

I see a correlation here with treatment and Alex Mogilny is a good example - it doesn't take much more than a google search to know what his beef is.

But it was so and so it remains - Russia shoots itself in the foot over and over again. And the reason why it keeps on doing it is denial - which, at last check, is not only a river in Egypt.

On that cliché - I retire.

You claim you are in the buieness but it seems you have no idea where these recent conflicts come from. Ok, so Mogilny story was long time ego. Hockey was a dead anymal in Russia or at least dying. Resnetly, there was Chistov, Svitov and now Zherdev. You claim that these players turn their backs on their country, but it is not completely true. It was simply financial conflict of two businesses where these kids were just smashed in between.
Hockey clubs in Russia are privately owned businesses. Not that they make any money, but the clubs survive and live because someone who owns them has money to spend on these toys. And of course when a russian hockey club as a business loses something it has a right to for a pocket change just because some idiots in IIHF signed bunch of papers, that is when the conflict starts. Within Russia itself (And Europe too I believe) the players can't just jump and go to any other club. Within league and even leagues the regulations are strict, you have to pay to get someone. NHL does not have exactly the same thing but often when trades are done some of the teams "eat" the contracts of certain players is basically the same thing. So basically the whole hockey world lives by these rules and here it is this agreement when a player is taken from a Russian club to an NHL club practically for free. Ok, there is that pocket change, but honestly, who does not think it is a joke. Then Russian clubs turn on the song with the Army, because it is the only thing that can be an argument with this crappy agreement. Then the owners get pissed off at agents and players, players get pissed of at the club, federation and country simple as that.

That's what I like, a person who responds to facts with facts.

You've obviously never travelled internationally and clearly have no idea what you're talking about. You have no facts to offer, and no coherent arguments.

Your only value to this board is comic-relif - it is hilarious you are so angry at Zherdev that you're desperetly flailing about like this. Do please stick around, so we can laugh at you every time he scores.


Go to anybody who lives in Russia and ask them about this crap. They will have a good laugh about it, seriously.

Ding! Ding! Ding!

You should really sit back and view this thread and respond only in a minimalist fashion (as I have). It's rather comical. It's as if you have several intelligent posters, a few lurkers and one big idiot. I won't give away the whole story line and tell you who the idiot is though ;)


I could tell who the idiot is, but I won't.
And you just keep reading.....

I could tell who the idiot is, but I won't.
And you just keep reading.....

I'm sure you could. You see him every day (or most every day).

And I will keep reading. I've learned some interesting things from Doc. And I've learned some tidbits on 'how not to argue' by some gent named Siberian.

I'm sure you could. You see him every day (or most every day).

And I will keep reading. I've learned some interesting things from Doc. And I've learned some tidbits on 'how not to argue' by some gent named Siberian.


Go away loser. If you have no brains to say something smart, GTFO. If you are not interested in the thread you can go wherever you want, you know it is a free world.

Go away loser. If you have no brains to say something smart, GTFO. If you are not interested in the thread you can go wherever you want, you know it is a free world.

Keep that up, not only does it not help your argument, not only is it off-topic, not only is it ignorant...

...but it's your ticket to a 3 day vacation.

Keep that up, not only does it not help your argument, not only is it off-topic, not only is it ignorant...

...but it's your ticket to a 3 day vacation.

Well thanks. The guy had a nice argument about idiots on this board.
Nice talking to you

Look, don't you think if a player is not playing up to potential a coach can not bench him just to give him a lesson? The problem was that after the draft he forgot he actually need to play and not dance like a figure skater.

Look, I rarely am wrong about something like this, I can tell that this guy is gonna be a floater. The way most fans act here is just disrespectful to Russian hockey fans. This will bite them in the ass when Zherdev will do similar trick on them one day if he ever develops into reliable scorer.


Right. You know more than the professional scouts for the Columbus Blue Jackets, i'm sure. Gimme a break, you accuse others here of ignorance, and you are so obviously blinded by your hatred of Zherdev because he left your country. You might want to take a cue from him, Russia is tilted heavily toward their old communist ways. While we have our problems here in america, at least we don't imprison people for being suscessful. Oh and the RSL is a developmental league for Russian NHL prospects, and the AHL has more talented players on average than the RSL.

Go to anybody who lives in Russia and ask them about this crap. They will have a good laugh about it, seriously.

Well well well...

Ironically enough I had a russian ex-girlfriend. Came to Canada in '98 or so.

Here's our conversation, pick it apart if you want...

Aaron:
How do russian passports work if you're conscripted in the army? If you try to flee, they cut you off at the airport, do they not?

Her:
Hmmmm, you're not allowed to leave the country then obviously. They might even take them away.

So...I did talk to someone who lived in Russia. I did ask them about this 'crap'. I didn't hear any laughing.

Well well well...

Ironically enough I had a russian ex-girlfriend. Came to Canada in '98 or so.

Here's our conversation, pick it apart if you want...

Aaron:
How do russian passports work if you're conscripted in the army? If you try to flee, they cut you off at the airport, do they not?

Her:
Hmmmm, you're not allowed to leave the country then obviously. They might even take them away.

So...I did talk to someone who lived in Russia. I did ask them about this 'crap'. I didn't hear any laughing.

I said bye but I simply can't let this one go. Your girlfriend does know knothing. I bet she does not even know what military ticket is and what color is the cover. She simply guesses. I am telling you this as is. Two pasports one internal and one external. When you are taken to the army you give your internal pasport and get your so called military ticket. Your external pasport stays in your pocket!!!!!! That is the document you need to leave Russia!!!!!!!!

Does she live in Calgary? What's her name, I live in Calgary as well so I know most of the russians here.

Does she live in Calgary? What's her name, I live in Calgary as well so I know most of the russians here.

Nope, she's in Edmonton.

Not like I'd disclose her identity on an internet message board anyway...

I said bye but I simply can't let this one go. Your girlfriend does know knothing. I bet she does not even know what military ticket is and what color is the cover. She simply guesses. I am telling you this as is. Two pasports one internal and one external. When you are taken to the army you give your internal pasport and get your so called military ticket. Your external pasport stays in your pocket!!!!!! That is the document you need to leave Russia!!!!!!!!

I think she'd know a helluva lot more than you would on the situation, considering she's from.

She's saying, and it makes a helluva lot more sense then what you're saying, that if a person leaves the country that is on military duty, or conscripted if you will, they would not be granted a working visa in Canada or the United States without approval from the Russian government, unless:

a) good connections
b) expensive bribe

I'll take her word over yours, especially since she's a law major.

[QUOTE=Aaron Vickers]I think she'd know a helluva lot more than you would on the situation, considering she's from.

She's saying, and it makes a helluva lot more sense then what you're saying, that if a person leaves the country that is on military duty, or conscripted if you will, they would not be granted a working visa in Canada or the United States without approval from the Russian government, unless:

a) good connections
b) expensive bribe

I'll take her word over yours, especially since she's a law major.QUOTE]

OMG. Look, I am not even gonna argue. It's so stupid. I have been getting canadian visa so many times, and never ever anyone asked me whether I was in the Army or not. How the heck can they tell???? It is so stupid arguing with you on this matter, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Anyways. The Flames are doing great, what is it that made you BJs admin. Must be offtopic here.

I know a lot about the players in the Columbus organization.

I think she'd know a helluva lot more than you would on the situation, considering she's from.

She's saying, and it makes a helluva lot more sense then what you're saying, that if a person leaves the country that is on military duty, or conscripted if you will, they would not be granted a working visa in Canada or the United States without approval from the Russian government, unless:

a) good connections
b) expensive bribe

I'll take her word over yours, especially since she's a law major.

She'd also like to add:

but you dont just show up to the airport, show whatever passport you got (foreign one) and hop on the plane, you do need a visa, and without one you cant leave, can you? so what is he saying? so you have your foreign passport, so then what? you cant just fly out with it, and they do checks anyway, and when you apply for a visa, they check all this stuff, otherwise anybody could have been leaving.

Care to respond to that?

I know a lot about the players in the Columbus organization.

Tell them(the organization) they rushed the kid from me. I would have waited if I were them. He would have became a much better then what he is now.

She'd also like to add:

but you dont just show up to the airport, show whatever passport you got (foreign one) and hop on the plane, you do need a visa, and without one you cant leave, can you? so what is he saying? so you have your foreign passport, so then what? you cant just fly out with it, and they do checks anyway, and when you apply for a visa, they check all this stuff, otherwise anybody could have been leaving.

Care to respond to that?

That is exactly right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
None in Canadian embassy will ask you that!!!!!!! They(canadian embassy) will never ever ever ask you that!!! You just show them your external pasport they give you visa!!!!!!!!! I made it at least three times!!!!!!! Can you hear??? Hello!!!!!!! Aaron!!!!!! I am telling you!!!!!!!)))))))

OMG. Look, I am not even gonna argue. It's so stupid. I have been getting canadian visa so many times, and never ever anyone asked me whether I was in the Army or not. How the heck can they tell???? It is so stupid arguing with you on this matter, you have no idea what you are talking about.

They don't ask you whether you're in the army or not. They know when they get your information.

You're beginning to make yourself look worse and worse now that we've got stronger word on the workings of the Russian government when it comes to mobility.

They don't ask you whether you're in the army or not. They know when they get your information.

You're beginning to make yourself look worse and worse now that we've got stronger word on the workings of the Russian government when it comes to mobility.


It is so funny!!! Tell me more about it!!! How will canadian embassy in Moscow ever finds out if I am serving in the army!!! Do I get an Army tatoo??? Does the Canadian embassy get connected to Red Army server??? I am just laughing so hard!!!!!!!

It seems that you are a bit lying here. I assume you might have interviewed him but I really doubt he has said something in interview bad I doubt he has said anything you can have against him. So you are just bluffing. The guy is the nicest in interviews. I have no idea why North American fans think of him as an animal, you are not the first one. But it is simply not true. He is a very nice in interviews and I have seen many. What he does is punish players for the on-ice attitude. He hates laziness in players.
He has some weird views on domestic hockey, and some think they are not democratic but he was always right. If they listened to him 12 years back the Russian hockey would not have been in a phase of death from 1991 to 2000


I'll excuse you're confusion because its obvious you don't speak english very well. I commend you for learning a second language though. If you
'd read Dr_Chimeras responses throughly, you'd realize that he is russian as well. And no where in his post did he say he got his all of his impressions from his interview.

It is so funny!!! Tell me more about it!!! How will canadian embassy in Moscow ever finds out if I am serving in the army!!! Do I get an Army tatoo??? Does the Canadian embassy get connected to Red Army server??? I am just laughing so hard!!!!!!!

So you're saying Russia is still so far back in the stone age they do not have a computer network set up containing information on all of its citizens?

My god...

I'll excuse you're confusion because its obvious you don't speak english very well. I commend you for learning a second language though. If you
'd read Dr_Chimeras responses throughly, you'd realize that he is russian as well. And no where in his post did he say he got his all of his impressions from his interview.

I don't speak English very well? Hahaha. You can't even right word YOUR properly and you are saying this! Man, I am having a hillarious evening! It is so much fun!!!!!!

It is so funny!!! Tell me more about it!!! How will canadian embassy in Moscow ever finds out if I am serving in the army!!! Do I get an Army tatoo??? Does the Canadian embassy get connected to Red Army server??? I am just laughing so hard!!!!!!!

They don't tattoo criminals either, do you think that they have no way of knowing whether a convicted criminal is trying to leave the country illegally?

I'd love to hear this answer.

It is so funny!!! Tell me more about it!!! How will canadian embassy in Moscow ever finds out if I am serving in the army!!! Do I get an Army tatoo??? Does the Canadian embassy get connected to Red Army server??? I am just laughing so hard!!!!!!!

So you're also saying Canada doesn't do checks on people they're granting Visa's too?

Dude, quit while you're so far behind...you'll be saved in the long run.

So you're saying Russia is still so far back in the stone age they do not have a computer network set up containing information on all of its citizens?

My god...

Is your ex-girlfriend saying that Red Army has a server.... connected to canadian embassy????? I won't sleep tonight it has been so funny!

Do you realize what you are saying? Canadian embassy is the territory of Canada!!! And that is exactly where all Russia military LAN's are hooked to!!!

Hillarious, simply hillarious!

Is your ex-girlfriend saying that Red Army has a server.... connected to canadian embassy????? I won't sleep tonight it has been so funny!

Do you realize what you are saying? Canadian embassy is the territory of Canada!!! And that is exactly where all Russia military LAN's are hooked to!!!

Hillarious, simply hillarious!

Again, I refer to background checks that Canada would've made. You're being naive and ignorant if you believe that you can get a visa in North America without any background history.

Impressive. Attack the one grammatical error in my post and avoid engaging my point. Typical.

They don't tattoo criminals either, do you think that they have no way of knowing whether a convicted criminal is trying to leave the country illegally?

I'd love to hear this answer.

Of course not! The fact is criminals won't get a visa to Canada unless someone from CANDA invites him ober, has invitation for him!!! What soldier be going to Canada unless you are highly needed there to make money off you!! This is a case one in a billion. Who would even be checking if you are in military or not. This is so funny!!!!! Aaron, you are so away out of the real world!!!!!

Impressive. Attack the one grammatical error in my post and avoid engaging my point. Typical.

Look! It is English, not english!!! Your English sucks, and you are not the one to tell me about mine, ok, dude?

[QUOTE=Siberian]Of course not! The fact is criminals won't get a visa to Canada unless someone from CANDA invites him ober, has invitation for him!QUOTE]

Isn't Zherdev a criminal for fleeing his army obligation, with those papers he 'signed'.

Fellas, I give up on this guy. Feel free to take over from where I stand, I've got sleep to catch and work in the morning.

Enjoy!

Of course not! The fact is criminals won't get a visa to Canada unless someone from CANDA invites him ober,

Because that is such great <b>E</b>nglish!

CANDA? Where's that?
ober? Huh?

Ladies and gentlemen, I'll be here all week. Be sure to tip your waitresses.

[QUOTE=Siberian]Of course not! The fact is criminals won't get a visa to Canada unless someone from CANDA invites him ober, has invitation for him!QUOTE]

Isn't Zherdev a criminal for fleeing his army obligation, with those papers he 'signed'.

Fellas, I give up on this guy. Feel free to take over from where I stand, I've got sleep to catch and work in the morning.

Enjoy!

Man, thank you for fun I had here. It is unbelievable!!! I can't stop laughing. Good night, Aaron!!!!!!

Who would even be checking if you are in military or not. This is so funny!!!!! Aaron, you are so away out of the real world!!!!!

I would assume that a background check would involve contacting the parent nation from which the party who is trying to gain a visa in order to get an accurate account on this person. I'm sure the information given would include your criminal history.

If Zherdev did in fact leave his mandatory obligation to participate in the Army, he would be deemed a criminal, thus it would have been made clear to Canadian officials in the background check.

Got it?

Have fun laughing...whatever protects you from reality.

Because that is such great <b>E</b>nglish!

CANDA? Where's that?
ober? Huh?

Ladies and gentlemen, I'll be here all week. Be sure to tip your waitresses.

Oh really, a typo makes my English bad???? Good night, go get your panties dry after you lost a discussion!!!!!

Somone, whose name rhymes with Riberian, just got owned

:D

I would assume that a background check would involve contacting the parent nation from which the party who is trying to gain a visa in order to get an accurate account on this person. I'm sure the information given would include your criminal history.

If Zherdev did in fact leave his mandatory obligation to participate in the Army, he would be deemed a criminal, thus it would have been made clear to Canadian officials in the background check.

Got it?

Have fun laughing...whatever protects you from reality.

Man, you are so far away from real world it is not even funny!!! Background check??? How can you do a background check in a foreign country??? How stupid is that??? Can you imagine Russian embassy in Ottawa checking the Police service. Or how about hooking to CIA computer? Isn'it nice?

In Canadian embassy they normally need an invitation for this person. Even if he killed 25 people 5 years ago, Canadian embassy has NO WAY OF KNOWING THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!! Got it??????????? Now go to BED!!!!!!!

Man, you are so far away from real world it is not even funny!!! Background check??? How can you do a background check in a foreign country??? How stupid is that??? Can you imagine Russian embassy in Ottawa checking the Police service. Or how about hooking to CIA computer? Isn'it nice?

In Canadian embassy they normally need an invitation for this person. Even if he killed 25 people 5 years ago, Canadian embassy has NO WAY OF KNOWING THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!! Got it??????????? Now go to BED!!!!!!!

I have traveled to three different countries, and they at least have to scan my Passport (hmmm.....) and they do run a background check....per se.

Somone, whose name rhymes with Riberian, just got owned

:D

Now there is little zit nicknamed enoch! What are we gonna do with him?
Man, I love this board!!!!

Now there is little zit nicknamed enoch! What are we gonna do with him?
Man, I love this board!!!!

I as well. After awhile, it becomes quite easy to dissect bad arguments. Dont you think????

:joker:

I have traveled to three different countries, and they at least have to scan my Passport (hmmm.....) and they do run a background check....per se.


They do???? Umm... That is pretty solid informayion!
I won't sleep tonight it has been so much fun!!!!!

They do???? Umm... That is pretty solid informayion!


Do you deny it? If you do, I seriously doubt your assesment that you have traveled internationaly, unless you are traveling to some island off the coast of Africa.

I as well. After awhile, it becomes quite easy to dissect bad arguments. Dont you think????

:joker:

Arguments???? Is this what you call the weed you've been smoking?
On a serious note I haven't seen a single argument from you, as a matter of faxt I don't remember if you said anything besides offensive crap.

Arguments???? Is this what you call the weed you've been smoking?
On a serious note I haven't seen a single argument from you, as a matter of faxt I don't remember if you said anything besides offensive crap.

I haven't made an argument other than the tid-bit about my traveling. For some reason, my blanket-statements seem to aggervate you. I wonder why???? :D

Do you deny it? If you do, I seriously doubt your assesment that you have traveled internationaly, unless you are traveling to some island off the coast of Africa.


The fact is you are trying to make argument out of nothing!!! The guy is serving officially in the army since June 11! It didn't prevent him from going to NHL draft back then!!!!!

What is your point??? That he is officially no serving in the Army????

The fact is you are trying to make argument out of nothing!!! The guy is serving officially in the army since June 11! It didn't prevent him from going to NHL draft back then!!!!!

What is your point??? That he is officially no serving in the Army????

Do you even comprehend what you type? I am merely replying to your statements. You made some lame comment about my traveling experience, and I called you on it.

Right now I am off!!!!! It has been lots of pleasure! So much fun!!! I think you guys are hillarious!
Remember, Zherdev is overhyped, overrated and dishonest to his CSKA fans. Don't put too much stock in him, he will not be worth it!!!

Somone, whose name rhymes with Penoch, just got owned

Right now I am off!!!!! It has been lots of pleasure! So much fun!!! I think you guys are hillarious!
Remember, Zherdev is overhyped, overrated and dishonest to his CSKA fans. Don't put too much stock in him, he will not be worth it!!!

Interesting. Emotions tend to blind people's judgement. Do you agree Siberian?

Somone, whose name rhymes with Penoch, just got owned

Classic, just classic. :joker:. Wherever did you come up with such a brilliant comment???

life is grand. I leave for a few hours, come back, and Siberian still has no valid point except for bitterness because his hero left him for the best league in the world, the NHL.

Siberian, do us all a favor and go to sleep. Think about everything you wrote here and tell us in the morning that none of it made any sense and you were drunk or something. Maybe then, AND I MEAN MAYBE then.. we will understand what the hell the point of you creating this topic was.

I don't understand this whole "Tyzhnykh stole the kid from the CSKA" bit. I mean, the kid said "screw it" and left, right?

Fan-o, just in case of... the sentence between quotes was Siberian's ones. Not mine.

Siberian quotes: " What was the reason to take the kid away from there and throw him into flame of struggling BJ's right now?"

Every year, there are many players in NHL sent in minor leagues or playing on 4th line and they don't like it. So, Zherdev is not different from any hockey player. He wants to play hockey. When you keep emotion from it, it is not such a big deal.

Siberian quotes: "I think his [Tyzhnykh] career working with kids in Russia is over!" You have the right to think so. But I bet it is not.

Am I going to have to separate you kids?

Zherdev played almost 20 minutes Saturday night against one of the most talented teams in the world. He wouldn't have gotten that amount of minutes playing three GAMES on the fourth line in the RSL. CSKA was ruining him by playing him on the fourth line, the Jackets won't do that. He's seen all kinds of power play time. MacLean isn't giving him the ice time because he's a such a nice guy, it's because Zherdev has EARNED those minutes by playing hard earlier in the game.

Maybe this thread alone can bump us past the Wings board for post count? :dunno:

Does anyone else following this conversation catch the air of desparation coming from Siberian's words? In the end, when he resulted to laughing at everyone for any and every reason, it was an argumentative jewel. If you can't beat them, and if you can't even argue on their level, then maybe if you laugh hard enough, they'll leave you alone.

It's like arguing with a drunk friend. You know you shouldn't because it's just not fair to him, but you do it anyway because it's so much fun.

Maybe this thread alone can bump us past the Wings board for post count? :dunno:

That was my hidden agenda all along!

That was my hidden agenda all along!

Why do you think I have been working so hard over on the Preds board to build a cushion? I knew this day would come!

I don't speak English very well? Hahaha. You can't even right word YOUR properly and you are saying this! Man, I am having a hillarious evening! It is so much fun!!!!!!

I wanted to read ALL the posts before replying, but I almost fell out of my chair laughing at this one. :lol: :handclap: Each of Siberians posts just gets funnier and funnier. Not more intellegent, just funnier. Cant wait to see how this finishes out....

Wow. Im speechless. Maybe a little jealous even. I though Id had good points in the past and the most I ever got out of it was 2 pages at best. A complete idiot rants and raves with no hard info and no one to back up any of his statements, and he gets 9 pages? :p It was entertaining though at times. Some people just like to hear themselves talk. Or see themselves type in this case.

I always wondered how so of you have post counts up into 2,000. I just can't wait for my argument with a Russian to boost my numbers. :p

I always wondered how so of you have post counts up into 2,000. I just can't wait for my argument with a Russian to boost my numbers. :p

Start one on the Predators board :joker:

Again... Back to the original story that this thread was supposed to be about. (Miss a weekend, miss alot!)

Unfortunately, I now cant believe anything this writer writes. I know he was trying to make a point with the opening (over-)statement but its so far out there that its rediculous. Moyzakin's RSL dominance means about as much as Steve Maltais's IHL dominance meant when he got an NHL shot. I have no reason to have an opinion one way or another concerning his ability to play in the NHL. But you cant make the argument based on numbers alone like this article tries to do. They dont talk about whether or not hes more physically mature than Zherdev. They dont talk about him being more emotionally mature and able to handle the cultural transition than Zherdev. Just that he has better stats. Very shortsighted as others have said.

As for this garbage about the Russian League suffering because of the exodus of players leaving, I dont buy it. Any suffering is of thier own doing. I dont think we payed a transfer fee to the CHL when we took Rick Nash did we? Just that if we dont use him in the NHL, we have to send him back until hes 20. That sounds fair to me. Id agree with that for European players as well.

If you spend all this time training them and dont let them play in the top organizations in the world, then whats the point of training them? If you treat them halfway decent, they will have pride in the groups that got them where they are and will come back and help out voluntarily. But not if you force them into it.

Basically, its a given that the Russians will let the whole problem go away for the right amount of money. Its this kind of shady, backdoor dealing that make the players want to leave in the first place. This is the culture that has been bred into the whole Russian hockey organization for years. I was hoping that it had changed since the 80s and 90s but it clearly hasnt.

Its sad to say that as political and all-who-you-know as hockey is in North America, its still far worse in Russia.

Guys!!! This was SO MUCH fun yesterday!! You are so funny!!!!
Unfortunately your hockey knowledge is limited and I can not be spending a lot of time laughing while reading your absolutely meaningless messages.
I wish good luck to your favourite team which happens to be a very mediocre at best! Good luck to loser Zherdev as well! I hope he does not get below -40 for the season.

Oh, and I also hope you do not take the last spot, because I would hate seeing Ovechkin playing for this team!!!

Guys!!! This was SO MUCH fun yesterday!! You are so funny!!!!
Unfortunately your hockey knowledge is limited and I can not be spending a lot of time laughing while reading your absolutely meaningless messages.
I wish good luck to your favourite team which happens to be a very mediocre at best! Good luck to loser Zherdev as well! I hope he does not get below -40 for the season.

Oh, and I also hope you do not take the last spot, because I would hate seeing Ovechkin playing for this team!!!

:lol: Aw, we bruised his ego. I guess we can cross off him being drunk yesterday, I guess he is naturally bad at discussions.

Guys!!! This was SO MUCH fun yesterday!! You are so funny!!!!
Unfortunately your hockey knowledge is limited and I can not be spending a lot of time laughing while reading your absolutely meaningless messages.
I wish good luck to your favourite team which happens to be a very mediocre at best! Good luck to loser Zherdev as well! I hope he does not get below -40 for the season.

Oh, and I also hope you do not take the last spot, because I would hate seeing Ovechkin playing for this team!!!

I know that I for one am extremely dissapointed that you dont approve of our team. What with all your obvious hockey knowledge and all. :( The boards just must go on though. We'll have to fight through the adversity of not having Siberian around to show us the light. With a lot of hard work, and a little magic pixie dust, we can regain his approval before the end of the season which we so desperately need to survive.

That articles uses horrid logic, and I should know, I majored in it.

They essentially use the same logic Brendan Shanahan used against Belarus in the 2002 Olympics when facing them in the Semi-Finals.

Shanahan had said that Canada were the underdogs going against Belarus, because Belarus had beaten Sweden, and Sweden had whooped Canada.

Does that logic at all make sense? Does that really mean that Canada were in fact the underdogs against a 'superior' Belarus squad?

No.

Sure, the comments are made in jest to start the article, but there's no way Mozyakin would make a larger impact in Columbus then Zherdev. Mozyakin wouldn't be welcomed into the organization the way Mozyakin would, and there's no way Mozyakin would want to be in Columbus right now.
Kansas State beat the NO. 1 team in college football, so if Ohio State beats Kansas State in the Fiesta Bowl, OSU should be awarded the National Championship! :joker:

If you didnt get enough from this post, its seems Siberian has a twin: http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?threadid=33016&mode=linear&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

Curious why Kastytsyn wasn't whining like Zherdev? Zherdev played pretty bad lately (though he had some minor injury), his game isn't perfect and he did't show much desire (trust me, I've seen many CSKA games this season) and he "earned" his 3-4th line minutes though honesty I would like that coaches would trust him more then maybe desire would appear but I think Zherdev was thinking lately too much about his x millions contract with Columbus.

Right after signing in preseason I've noticed with how big desire he was playing! really trying to show that he deserve it. He played in first two lines and looked pretty good and scored some goals (I was posting his videos at preseason, you can find them on the prospect board) though it was mainly versus Ukraine and Belorussia selects at Spartak cup where CSKA won 7-2 and 9-2 respectively. He played too individual though, trying to enter the offensive zone by himself not so often using his linemates and I don't think coaches liked it.
Siberian said that he is "soft", mainly I argee with that, he badly needs to bulk up because he is pretty easy to knock off from the puck and not so good along boards.

Also you have to remember that Zherdev is only 19, not many players receive top 2 line minutes in RSL at such young age.

Siberian said that he is "soft", mainly I argee with that, he badly needs to bulk up because he is pretty easy to knock off from the puck and not so good along boards.


Ask Marek Zidlicky how good Zherdev is along the boards. :lol:

Siberian said that he is "soft", mainly I argee with that, he badly needs to bulk up because he is pretty easy to knock off from the puck and not so good along boards.


Maybe you've missed his three NHL games, but he's shown excellent strength on his skates and the willingness to go into the boards and dig for the puck. Maybe our guess of him playing bad in CSKA just because he didn't want to be there is holding some weight, now.

Maybe you've missed his three NHL games

I haven't seen his nhl games.

Ask Marek Zidlicky how good Zherdev is along the boards. :lol:

I will ;)

Ask Marek Zidlicky how good Zherdev is along the boards. :lol:
Because Zidlicky is known for his strong play on the boards?

Zherdev is going to be a great player, but he does cherry pick and float a lot or he did against Nashville. At one point he was the only player on his side of the ice, it was so bad the play-by-play guys were making fun of it. He won't get away with that for too long, but he won't need too. He has the talent and skills to play in both ends, and seems hungry enough to do it.

http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?postid=560696#post560696


Another Great Thread about Zherdev. A lot of interesting stuff in it.

http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?postid=560696#post560696


Another Great Thread about Zherdev. A lot of interesting stuff in it.

Just the same stuff that's been said in this thread, but now he's getting compared to someone drafted a few years before him. Yea, let's compare Kovalchuk to Frolov too, see who comes out on the top.

They do???? Umm... That is pretty solid informayion!
I won't sleep tonight it has been so much fun!!!!!


anyone want INFORMAYION on their burger?

anyone want INFORMAYION on their burger?

:lol::lol::joker: