Toronto Proposal

wasting time
12-07-2003, 07:15 PM
To Phoenix:
Carlo Colaiacovo/Darcy Tucker

To Toronto:
Ossi Vaananen/Fredrik Sjostrom

Phoenix gets their potential #1 Offensive D man and Tucker to give their forwards needed grit for this year's run for the playoffs. Brad Ference may be in the dog house but he should be a top 6 on this team - so he steps up.

Toronto gets a young defensive D man who can play now and a prospect winger sniper needed for their stable of playmakers like Stajan Steen, Immonen, Williams and Wellwood.

If Barnett has a hate on for Ference as seems to be the case, then:

To Phoenix:
Ric Jackman or Alexei Ponikarovski

To Toronto:
Brad Ference

hbk
12-08-2003, 03:29 AM
To Phoenix:
Carlo Colaiacovo/Darcy Tucker

To Toronto:
Ossi Vaananen/Fredrik Sjostrom

Phoenix gets their potential #1 Offensive D man and Tucker to give their forwards needed grit for this year's run for the playoffs. Brad Ference may be in the dog house but he should be a top 6 on this team - so he steps up.

Toronto gets a young defensive D man who can play now and a prospect winger sniper needed for their stable of playmakers like Stajan Steen, Immonen, Williams and Wellwood.

If Barnett has a hate on for Ference as seems to be the case, then:

To Phoenix:
Ric Jackman or Alexei Ponikarovski

To Toronto:
Brad Ference

under the first deal, Phoenix would be eating Tucker's contract which they can't afford to do. Besides talent wise I'm not sure Colaicovo is a huge upgrade over Vaananen in the long haul and I don't think we'd be willing to deal Sjostrom for just Tucker. We'd want more especially given the differences in salary.

As for the second deal; what's in it for Phoenix. What motivation do the Coyotes have to make a deal besides trimming a minor amount of salary. Talent wise it's a sideways move at best.

CoyoteBaloney
12-08-2003, 04:14 AM
The first deal is the only one I will comment on. It doesnt fit into the Coyotes master plan of running this team. The Coyotes are building towards a future and Tucker is about the past/present. It just doesn't make sense for them to give up such future players like Vaananen and Sjostrom in that deal while only getting Colaiacovo for the future.

Guest
12-08-2003, 06:21 AM
Better luck next time. Proposals are hard to do though IMO, as you rarely know what another teams needs as much, and you rarely know the value of the players.

PhoPhan
12-08-2003, 10:24 AM
A big ol' no thank you on both.

Savage
12-08-2003, 10:34 AM
under the first deal, Phoenix would be eating Tucker's contract which they can't afford to do. Besides talent wise I'm not sure Colaicovo is a huge upgrade over Vaananen in the long haul and I don't think we'd be willing to deal Sjostrom for just Tucker. We'd want more especially given the differences in salary.

As for the second deal; what's in it for Phoenix. What motivation do the Coyotes have to make a deal besides trimming a minor amount of salary. Talent wise it's a sideways move at best.

This deal is abysmal for Toronto but I'll point out a couple of flaws in your argument.

Tucker only makes 1.6 million and is 28 years old. Vannanen makes $900,000 so there is not a lot of difference at all and as far as Sjostrom is concerned, from what I've heard he's been a total bust and hasn't scored a goal yet.

As for the second deal, I don't think Phoenix would like that deal from a value stand point. They save money with the proposed deal but they only get a future 3rd liner at best and a defencemen who has been a complete bust since his drinking problems. I think Ference has some potential but that could be just me. :dunno:

PhoPhan
12-08-2003, 10:36 AM
This deal is abysmal for Toronto but I'll point out a couple of flaws in your argument.

Tucker only makes 1.6 million and is 28 years old. Vannanen makes $900,000 so there is not a lot of difference at all and as far as Sjostrom is concerned, from what I've heard he's been a total bust and hasn't scored a goal yet.

As for the second deal, I don't think Phoenix would like that deal from a value stand point. They save money with the proposed deal but they only get a future 3rd liner at best and a defencemen who has been a complete bust since his drinking problems. I think Ference has some potential but that could be just me. :dunno:

Very few, if any, people have labeled Sjostrom a "complete bust". He was a first round pick a recently, and he has not looked out of place on the ice, only in the box scores.

Savage
12-08-2003, 10:40 AM
Very few, if any, people have labeled Sjostrom a "complete bust". He was a first round pick a recently, and he has not looked out of place on the ice, only in the box scores.

Okay calling him a complete bust may be taking it a bit to far but If you're not producing goals, assists and points you can be easily replaced and so far Sjostrom has proven very little. I'm not saying he can't or won't turn it around but until he does prove something he's worth very little.

Devils Advocate
12-08-2003, 12:01 PM
Okay calling him a complete bust may be taking it a bit to far but If you're not producing goals, assists and points you can be easily replaced and so far Sjostrom has proven very little. I'm not saying he can't or won't turn it around but until he does prove something he's worth very little.

Sorry, but until you change your id from Savage (regardless of whether it is related to Brian Savage), you will not have any credence here :D

As for Sjostrom, he probably shouldn't even be up with the big club (although I think he is probably learning a lot). You obviously aren't aware of what is realistic to expect from Sjostrom at this point in his career so your opinions don't count for much. For that same reason I can't comment on this Carlos C. fellow as I have no knowledge about him (other than he is often mentioned in trade proposals).

hbk
12-08-2003, 02:24 PM
Okay calling him a complete bust may be taking it a bit to far but If you're not producing goals, assists and points you can be easily replaced and so far Sjostrom has proven very little. I'm not saying he can't or won't turn it around but until he does prove something he's worth very little.


I and a number of posters here have seen him play and I for one am not overly concerned by his lack of scoring at the AHL level thus far. He's more of a two-way player that what was advertised at the NHL draft in 2001 (where I beleive we traded up to select him ahead of Colaicovo). He's not going to be another Kovalchuk and score 50 goals at the NHL level. He projects as more of a Jere Lehtinen type player who will score 20 Goals, 50 points, and play solid defense. He can play on any line and will contribute at the NHL level.