Nash or Nowitzki

Dr.Funk
03-15-2007, 02:04 PM
http://www.tsn.ca/images/stories/20070315/nash_47491.jpg vs http://www.tsn.ca/images/stories/20070315/dirk_47505.jpg


Only three players in the history of the NBA have earned MVP honours in three consecutive years. The question is has Nash done enough to join the Larry Bird, Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell in a very elite club?

NBA voters traditionally don't like to hand out the major hardware to the same players every year. Michael Jordon won five MVP awards, but never more than two in a row. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar won six MVP awards, but was twice denied of winning it in three consecutive seasons. Given that mindset, Nash may have to be an absolute no-brainer to earn his three-peat.





Statistically Nash is having his greatest season, putting up career highs in points, assists, field goal percentage and three-point percentage while leading the Suns to the second best record in the NBA. Aside from raw numbers, Nash makes just about everybody around him better. Shawn Marion and Amare Stoudemire continuously get easy looks at the basket and both are among the NBA's field-goal percentage leaders.

Also of note is the fact that the Suns don't play very well when Nash sits out. Nash has missed six games this season and the Suns have gone just 2-4 in his absense - compared to 48-10 when he suits up.

Nowitzki, meanwhile, has helped lead the Mavericks to the top record in the league. He is among the league leaders in scoring and rebounding as is shooting the ball and passing the ball better than he ever has. It will be interesting to see if NBA voters think that is enough to dethrone Nash.




http://www.tsn.ca/nba/news_story/?ID=200215&hubname=

SpeakerForTheDead
03-15-2007, 02:11 PM
At this point, I have no idea who to choose. But, I think it will go to Nowitzki. I was leaning towards Nowitzki too, but Nash's game last night was just Amazing. So its really a toss up at the moment.

Nalyd Psycho
03-15-2007, 02:49 PM
Nash is probably slightly more deserving, but, it's close enough that the difference between 2-peat champ and a never won player will give the edge to the player who's never won. So, Big D in Big D wins the MVP.

Live in the Now
03-15-2007, 02:52 PM
Dirk or Kobe should have won it last year.

Obviously Dirk.

Dr.Funk
03-15-2007, 02:59 PM
Nowitzki has been right there for 3 or 4 years now. I think the gap is so close between the two this year that he can't be denied the trophy any longer.

Garbs
03-15-2007, 03:24 PM
I think it belongs to Nash, but Dirk will win it.

mr gib
03-15-2007, 07:01 PM
i don't think it will be steve nash but it should be - the nba industry doesn't want a pint sized point guard from victoria writing that kind of history -

if he does i'd be overjoyed

TorontoSports
03-15-2007, 09:52 PM
Nash... he makes his team mates better. So he is Most Valuable.

Ever see the Suns play without nash? They suck.

Nalyd Psycho
03-15-2007, 10:36 PM
Nash... he makes his team mates better. So he is Most Valuable.

Ever see the Suns play without nash? They suck.

Has Dallas had to play without Nowitski?

Suns suck without Nash because they are built to have Nash.

Fish on The Sand
03-16-2007, 06:06 AM
Has Dallas had to play without Nowitski?

Suns suck without Nash because they are built to have Nash.

it doesn't matter if they are built for Nash or not, the point is Nash is the Suns.

Le Magnifique 66
03-16-2007, 12:07 PM
Disco Dirk

took420s
03-16-2007, 04:19 PM
I think the NBA messed up last year by giving it to Nash. It should have gone to Kobe, but they let Nash have it instead and now they have a problem.

Nashty's numbers are even better this year, but they can't give him 3 in a row when even Jordan did not get 3 in a row.

IMO Nash has a better team around him than Dirk does, therefore Dirk is would be my choice.

Nalyd Psycho
03-16-2007, 04:36 PM
it doesn't matter if they are built for Nash or not, the point is Nash is the Suns.

And Nowitski is the Mavs.

Fish on The Sand
04-04-2007, 08:13 PM
Nowotzki was a total non-factor against the suns last weekend, and even pulled his best Dwayne Wade impression when he couldn't get a foul call.

XX
04-04-2007, 08:25 PM
Suns are worthless without Nash. The same can't really be said for the Mavs and Dirk.

The MVP is supposed to go to the player who means the most to his team and makes his teammates better etc...

Hope Nash wins. I think Bird even came out and said he should win it or something to that effect.

Happy Pony
04-04-2007, 10:00 PM
Kobe, the lakers would be a lottery team without him.

Most VALUABLE Player.

Suns without Nash would be a playoff team, so would the Mavs without Dirk

Troy McClure
04-04-2007, 10:46 PM
Nowotzki was a total non-factor against the suns last weekend, and even pulled his best Dwayne Wade impression when he couldn't get a foul call.

And Nash will be a total non-factor come playoff time... again. But that's your MVP, folks. Gotta love that Steve Nash defensive posture: Ole!

http://www.magicmakers.com/internet%20jpg%20S/spanish%20matador%20blue.jpg

Nalyd Psycho
04-04-2007, 11:53 PM
Nash is a factor in the playoffs, problem is, the lack of muscle down low really catches up to them in the post season.

Kobe, the lakers would be a lottery team without him.

Most VALUABLE Player.

Suns without Nash would be a playoff team, so would the Mavs without Dirk

So what, with them, those two teams are running roughshod over the rest of the league. Pheonix and Dallas aren't just playoff teams, they are simply better than everyone else.

Fish on The Sand
04-05-2007, 01:40 AM
And Nash will be a total non-factor come playoff time... again. But that's your MVP, folks. Gotta love that Steve Nash defensive posture: Ole!

http://www.magicmakers.com/internet%20jpg%20S/spanish%20matador%20blue.jpg

non factor? Are you on crack. Let me take you back to game 6 of the 2005 western semi-finals. Where the Mavs choked away a 13 point lead in 2 minutes and Nash single handedly sent them home, whining.

http://www.nba.com/games/20050520/PHODAL/recap.html

While the Suns rallied around their star in Nash, the Mavericks unraveled around All-Star forward Dirk Nowitzki, who was barking at teammates but missed all five of his shots in overtime.

In the final seconds, Dallas had a chance to tie, but Nowitzki missed badly on a 3-pointer and Nash made two free throws to seal it at 128-123 with 8.3 seconds to go.

I'll sum up the setting. Mavs in their biggest game of the season, needed a win to stay alive and gave themselves a huge lead late in the game. Steve Nash, single handedly took over and brought the game to overtime, where Marion decided to help Nash out a little. Basically, Nash saw his team was in trouble and stepped up his play and the team rallied around it. Dirk, seeing the incredible heart on the other side, just couldn't handle the pressure, and choked away the game. Not only did he choke away the game, but he yelled at his teamates for it. Maybe you thought Nash was a Mav in that series still, maybe that's why you thought he was a non-factor.

ThrashersBoi
04-05-2007, 08:09 AM
I'm going to have to say Nash, since he brings alot more to the team. Nowitzki is simply a scorer, where Nash pretty much does it all.

Troy McClure
04-05-2007, 10:08 AM
I'm going to have to say Nash, since he brings alot more to the team. Nowitzki is simply a scorer, where Nash pretty much does it all.

Does it all in the offensive end of the court you mean.

took420s
04-05-2007, 10:54 AM
Does it all in the offensive end of the court you mean.


Hey Dirk is no defensive juggernaut either. For a guy his size he should be swatting and rebounding more than he does. Avery Johnson has been a big motivator for Dirk to at least try to defend, unlike when Nash was in Dallas and they played no D whatsoever.

The NBA does not want Cuban to win. Pistons take it this year, book it ;)

Ar-too
04-05-2007, 12:58 PM
Nash for me. Dirk is uniquely talented, and I'd take both if I could, but Nash allows the Suns to be a great team. Dirk could be replaced and the Mavs would still be really, really good.

Dr.Funk
04-05-2007, 03:34 PM
Nash for me. Dirk is uniquely talented, and I'd take both if I could, but Nash allows the Suns to be a great team. Dirk could be replaced and the Mavs would still be really, really good.


Only if you are replacing Dirk with another MVP calibre player.

Fish on The Sand
04-05-2007, 04:11 PM
Does it all in the offensive end of the court you mean.

Dirk's idea of defence is to yell at teamates when the Suns light them up like a Christmas tree:teach:

Fish on The Sand
04-05-2007, 04:13 PM
Only if you are replacing Dirk with another MVP calibre player.

you finally backed yourself into a hole. There are plenty of forwards who could have lead the Mavs to their record. On the flip side, there are 0 point gaurds who could have made the Suns what they are. If the mavs had James, or Duncan, or Garnett, they would be just as good, and possibly better with the latter two.

Gibsons Finest
04-05-2007, 05:01 PM
Dirk's idea of defence is to yell at teamates when the Suns light them up like a Christmas tree:teach:

Funny how your memory is good enough to remember 2005 but forget 2006...... Good luck when Nash does indeed flame out come playoff time. I know the Suns use Barbosa more now, but maybe the Suns should listen to Mark Cuban and play him less if they want to be more effective.


As for the Mavs being just as good or better with a Duncan or Garnett over Dirk, no they wouldn't. Not by a long shot. Dirk isn't necessarily the Mavs, but he's the biggest factor on that team.

And, why is it that Nash makes everyone around him great but everyone around Dirk just does it on their own? People will say that Avery is the one making the rest of the Mavs' former non-superstars who now are key contributors, so why can't D'Antoni be the reason all the Suns have career years? Yeah, Nash is primarily a passer, but it's not like he ever came close to doing this in Dallas. When he was around here, it was the big 3, and everyone else wasn't that good. I do give him a bit of credit for making the players around him better, but I'd say the system should get some, too. Also, I think Dirk deserves some credit for making the players around him better, as guys like Jet and Howard and co. probably wouldn't be as effective without him.

Nash is deserving of another MVP award, but Dirk is more deserving. Hopefully the NBA sees it that way.

Nalyd Psycho
04-05-2007, 05:11 PM
Dirk makes the players around him better because he is an elite threat inside and out, throwing off defensive systems and giving more room for his supporting cast to work.

Troy McClure
04-05-2007, 07:58 PM
There are plenty of forwards who could have lead the Mavs to their record.
Not true.

Funny how your memory is good enough to remember 2005 but forget 2006...... Good luck when Nash does indeed flame out come playoff time.
Yeah, his selective memory is amusing.

Nash is an awesome player, but the Suns won't ever win anything by playing their zero D run and gun style. You have to play D to win a championship.

Dirk isn't a great defender either, but he contributes a lot more in his own end than Nash.

Fish on The Sand
04-13-2007, 05:11 AM
Not true.


Yeah, his selective memory is amusing.

Nash is an awesome player, but the Suns won't ever win anything by playing their zero D run and gun style. You have to play D to win a championship.

Dirk isn't a great defender either, but he contributes a lot more in his own end than Nash.

you make it sound like the Suns play no D. The fact is, the Suns team defence is only slightly less than that of the Mavs. Also, 2006 you can't put on Nash, his team was down 3 starters and their top bench player for a while, and when two of them did return (Bell/Thomas), they were clearly injured still.

DamoTayo*
04-17-2007, 04:54 PM
Has Dallas had to play without Nowitski?

Suns suck without Nash because they are built to have Nash.
if your going to say that then kobe bryant is a much more deserving candidate, if you dont think making teammates better is important then i absolutely think kobe should win.
kobe


dirk
garnett

Malouds
04-23-2007, 03:06 PM
Nowitzki.

OilerOlli*
04-24-2007, 10:26 AM
A german get voted MVP in America? Never.

chaosrevolver
04-25-2007, 12:46 PM
Thus Far:

Steve Nash 18 PPG 3 RPG 12 APG
Kobe Bryant 27 PPG 4.5 RPG 3 APG
Dirk Nowitzki 14 PPG 12 RPG 4 APG
Chris Bosh 23.5 PPG 9 RPG 1.5 APG

Had to throw my home boy, Bosh in. I would say nash should get it but they will turn him away and take Dirk. Either way both deserve it and you could throw Bryant in too. Dirk is certainly can do a lot of things better than the others, nash makes his teammates better (ALOT BETTER), and if Bryant was not on the Lakers the lakers would be dead. As for Bosh similar to Bryant and Nash and nowitzki. He can do it all of that but to a lesser effect. Id also say between these 4 guys Bosh is the best defender and i have no doubts about that. All 4 guys are definetly the face of their franchise for their respective teams.

chaosrevolver
04-25-2007, 12:50 PM
if your going to say that then kobe bryant is a much more deserving candidate, if you dont think making teammates better is important then i absolutely think kobe should win.
kobe


dirk
garnettGarnett, yeah right. he cant even lead his team to the playoffs and wasnt as good as Nash or Nowitzki during te season. The only way he would win is if he led the Wolves to the playoffs and scored 25 a game, 13 rebounds, 4 or 5 assists. Then i would say he deserves it.

Nalyd Psycho
04-25-2007, 01:05 PM
if your going to say that then kobe bryant is a much more deserving candidate, if you dont think making teammates better is important then i absolutely think kobe should win.
kobe


dirk
garnett

No, I'm saying Dirk will win. He makes his team better by ruining defensive matchups for the opponent due to his excellent inside outside game/.

XX
04-26-2007, 12:37 AM
No, I'm saying Dirk will win. He makes his team better by ruining defensive matchups for the opponent due to his excellent inside outside game/.

And Nash doesn't carve other teams defenses to pieces with his passes? Please. The people have spoken. Nash is leading almost 2:1 at the moment.

Dr.Funk
04-26-2007, 10:33 AM
And the GM's have spoken. Dirk is the man.

http://www.tsn.ca/nba/news_story.asp?ID=205527&hubName=nba

Giuseppe Sallo
04-26-2007, 03:31 PM
Poor Nash -- While I do think Dirk is deserving for MVP but I see Nash winning an NBA title this year.

Suns are Just too Good and they learned there lesson.

Fish on The Sand
04-26-2007, 05:25 PM
Poor Nash -- While I do think Dirk is deserving for MVP but I see Nash winning an NBA title this year.

Suns are Just too Good and they learned there lesson.

if by lesson you mean not getting injured, then yes, they have learned their lesson.

took420s
04-26-2007, 05:33 PM
if by lesson you mean not getting injured, then yes, they have learned their lesson.


Amare is one hell of a player, he deserves a huge amount of credit and outside of PHO (and now LA) does not seem to get it.


The Finals MVP is all that matters anyway. Yao Ming---NBA Finals MVP is starting to look like a real possibility to me!

Fish on The Sand
04-26-2007, 07:37 PM
Amare is one hell of a player, he deserves a huge amount of credit and outside of PHO (and now LA) does not seem to get it.


The Finals MVP is all that matters anyway. Yao Ming---NBA Finals MVP is starting to look like a real possibility to me!

if by miracle Houston wins, T-Mac will be mvp.

Nalyd Psycho
04-26-2007, 10:46 PM
And Nash doesn't carve other teams defenses to pieces with his passes? Please. The people have spoken. Nash is leading almost 2:1 at the moment.

I like how by supporting one player, I'm insulting another. I have nothing but love for Nash, my favourite player. I just think it's Dirk's year.

Ar-too
04-30-2007, 10:49 AM
When does the MVP voting take place? Is it already over?

If not, Dirk's chances have taken a beating over the last few days.

12# Peter Bondra
04-30-2007, 02:14 PM
When does the MVP voting take place? Is it already over?

If not, Dirk's chances have taken a beating over the last few days.
I think it takes place at the end of the regular season.

BladesOfTeal
04-30-2007, 02:39 PM
Luckily for Nowitzki, the voting takes place before the playoffs start.

Funny how your memory is good enough to remember 2005 but forget 2006...... Good luck when Nash does indeed flame out come playoff time. I know the Suns use Barbosa more now, but maybe the Suns should listen to Mark Cuban and play him less if they want to be more effective.

Nash had as many assists as Dirk had points last night...

Hemskyfanboy83
04-30-2007, 09:46 PM
Nash for me. Just such a great player.

Look what he did last year when his team sucked. It was him and Marion maybe Barbosa and that is it. Tim Thomas? Boris Diaw? Eddie House? Raja Bell?

That team had no buisness scoring as much as they did but Nash is that damn good. This year he was even better. Stats don't even count the points he gets for his teammates at the free throw line. He also shoots a disgusting % for a guard.

Nash for me easily.

Gibsons Finest
04-30-2007, 10:25 PM
Luckily for Nowitzki, the voting takes place before the playoffs start.



Nash had as many assists as Dirk had points last night...

Meh. Nash has still never gotten out of the third round, and I wouldn't doubt it if they again lost out early this year.

BladesOfTeal
05-01-2007, 03:39 AM
Meh. Nash has still never gotten out of the third round, and I wouldn't doubt it if they again lost out early this year.

If the Suns get out early this year, it will be no fault of Nash and his play.

If the Mavericks lose one more, a lot of fingers will be pointed squarely at Nowitzki's shortcomings.

Fish on The Sand
05-03-2007, 12:38 AM
Meh. Nash has still never gotten out of the third round, and I wouldn't doubt it if they again lost out early this year.

until Dirk met an exhausted Suns team missing 3 starters and a hobbled 6th man he never even sniffed the finals. Even then, he barely made it. Once they made the finals, they promptly choked.

XX
05-03-2007, 12:49 AM
Dirk has been horrible against the Warriors. He isn't a difference maker. Nash puts up as many assists as Dirk has points for crying out loud. The MVP is about making your teammates better and helping the team. Thats the definition of Steve Nash.

I don't know how the writers or whomever votes on the MVP can look past all the greats and figures in the league like Phil Jackson and such saying how great Nash has been.

He deserves the 3rd.

Garbs
05-04-2007, 01:05 AM
So is he going to have the award mailed to him or what? How embarrassing.

wildone26*
05-04-2007, 01:09 AM
Nowitzki will definitely win it. If the playoffs were considered he wouldnt have.

Fish on The Sand
05-04-2007, 03:54 AM
And Nash will be a total non-factor come playoff time... again. But that's your MVP, folks. Gotta love that Steve Nash defensive posture: Ole!

http://www.magicmakers.com/internet%20jpg%20S/spanish%20matador%20blue.jpg

This is hall of fame calibur right here.

With the Mavericks season on the line, Dirk decided that he would produce 8 points on 2-13 shooting. Some mvp. He was actually a negative presence on the floor tonight.

Troy McClure
05-04-2007, 09:12 AM
This is hall of fame calibur right here.

With the Mavericks season on the line, Dirk decided that he would produce 8 points on 2-13 shooting. Some mvp. He was actually a negative presence on the floor tonight.

And if the Suns bow out in the 2nd round again, are you going to talk about the playoffs when proping up your boy Nash as the MVP? Dirk had a bad series, so you Nash fans can't wait to point and laugh. But I bet I you won't want to hear the same thing after the Suns get eliminated in the next few weeks.

Yeah, Dirk sucked, but the MVP is voted in after the regular season. Which is good. If it also considered the post-season, Nash wouldn't have ever won it once.

Maybe I should go and dig up some of your old posts about the Cheifs. Those are some real hall of fame posts. Best team of the 90s...

Fish on The Sand
05-04-2007, 03:04 PM
And if the Suns bow out in the 2nd round again, are you going to talk about the playoffs when proping up your boy Nash as the MVP? Dirk had a bad series, so you Nash fans can't wait to point and laugh. But I bet I you won't want to hear the same thing after the Suns get eliminated in the next few weeks.

Yeah, Dirk sucked, but the MVP is voted in after the regular season. Which is good. If it also considered the post-season, Nash wouldn't have ever won it once.

Maybe I should go and dig up some of your old posts about the Cheifs. Those are some real hall of fame posts. Best team of the 90s...

I'm not saying I haven't said stupid things, but this whole Nash sucks in the playoffs is getting old. Since he joined Phoenix he has been nothing but excellent in the post-season, and they have never gone out before the conference finals, so this getting knocked out int he second round again is pointless, because it never happened. That was a Mavericks trick, but they couldn't get that far this year.

Sinistrophobia
05-04-2007, 05:44 PM
Ouch.

Might not matter WHAT kind of season Dirk has next year, he might not win MVP until he proves he can produce in the playoffs again.

DarkShark*
05-04-2007, 08:19 PM
If Josh Howard makes those two free throws in game 5 the Mavs win.

DarkShark*
05-04-2007, 08:20 PM
Game 5 of the finals, that is

Giuseppe Sallo
05-05-2007, 01:50 AM
It's tough winning a title, It's not an easy thing. Phoenix has the right role players to win, Against the Spurs it will be difficult but I have confidence that Nash will lead his team.

If Josh Howard makes those two free throws in game 5 the Mavs win

Still in denial, I see. Gotta love it -- Warriors are the underdogs.

Dr.Funk
05-06-2007, 07:23 PM
Arizona Republic -
Dallas' Dirk Nowitzki projects to become the NBA's first European-born Most Valuable Player and the first to receive the award after playoff elimination in 25 years, according to The Republic's survey of 73 percent of MVP voters.

Counting 96 of the award's 132 voters, Nowitzki would outscore Phoenix two-time defending MVP Steve Nash 831 points to 778 (it is a 10-7-5-3-1 system). Nowitzki garnered 57 first-place votes to Nash's 37, likely ending Nash's bid to become the only player to win the award three times consecutively besides Larry Bird, Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/45982/20070506/report_dirk_likely_to_be_mvp/