Fire MacLean!!

Y'know, we had a very interesting debate based on Nikolai Zherdev. I figure if we can get a series of topics going that can inspire some posts, then this should be excellent.

Here's our newest topic to debate.

To fire, or not to fire.

Personally, MacLean has done an exceptional job...as General Manager. His coaching skills are mediocre at best, and likely not the best coach to manage a group of youngsters.

I think MacLean needs to head back to the press box, and bring in someone who can manage the kids better.

Fire.

For Every good trade that hes made as GM, hes made at least one bad one. The Spacek trade was countered by the Marshall Trade.

Find a new coach, but don't fire. He got Sanderson and Grand-Pierre for nothing at the expansion draft. He got Nash for nothing. he picked up Spacek for Odelein. Got Denis for a 2nd(not bad). Brings in free agents. Got Sydor for Sillinger. Plucked Malhotra off waivers. Brought over Vyborny. Let's face it he has built a solid core Klesla, Leclaire, Johnson, Nash, Zherdev and Fritsche. Marshall is the only blemish I can think of right now.

Fire. He needs to realize that defense is going to bring this team over the slump that they are in, yet he still has yet to address their porous D. Sydor is an offensive defensemen. THey should have traded for an defensive defensemen. Just little things like that, bother me, and I think he should be canned.

I think "fire" is too harsh a word. Keep Doug as GM, no problems there, but we clearly need someone else behind the bench.
But WHO????
I don't know as much about our assistant coaches as I probably should. Is there anyone else available??

Fire.

For Every good trade that hes made as GM, hes made at least one bad one. The Spacek trade was countered by the Marshall Trade.

Ok, I can give you the marshall trade.

Now please name the other bad trades he has made?

Fire. He needs to realize that defense is going to bring this team over the slump that they are in, yet he still has yet to address their porous D. Sydor is an offensive defensemen. THey should have traded for an defensive defensemen. Just little things like that, bother me, and I think he should be canned.

Enoch, remember that 4 of our top 5 d-men are out and have been for a signifigant amount of time. I agree that our D has left a lot to be desired, but our defense is also much, MUCH, deeper this year.

I think our D is better this year than it has been in the past... how many games have they played together, as a healthy unit?

And about the Sydor trade. Maybe that was the only trade available. That was a great trade in my book.

DM has done a good job as GM. Head coach, well do we even need to discuss this?

Ok, I can give you the marshall trade.

Now please name the other bad trades he has made?


The Nash trade could have been a disaster.

Ron Tugnutt and the 33rd Overall Pick for the 20th Overall Pick

The Nash trade could have been a disaster.

Ron Tugnutt and the 33rd Overall Pick for the 20th Overall Pick


Well MacLean's reasoning behind that was addition by subtraction, handing over the reins to Denis. Tugger was making a decent chunk of money too, that went toward free agents. I remember thinking WTF when that trade went down, but I think it was a salary dump and spot maker more than anything.

And heck we got the guy we wanted at 4th anyway. Things would've worked out the same anyway. Zherdev was Number 1 on our list so if we had the 1st pick we would have picked him anyway.

It's not like I expected them to be a playoff team this year, but I expected the Jackets to at least be better than last season. So far, they are on pace to finish with 62 points, seven less than last season.

My personal opinion is that he should stay on as GM and hire a new coach at the end of the season. However, the chances of that type of scenario happening aren't likely, based on what I've heard MacLean say in the past. Here's a quote from him in the June 7th Dispatch, when he announced he was no longer an interim coach and was going to stay on:

"I'm not going into this saying, 'I'm going to coach for a year,' '' MacLean said. "My plan -- and this is subject, obviously, to (majority owner John H. McConnell) -- is that I'm going to coach the Blue Jackets until we win the Stanley Cup."

That is where I think MacLean made a big mistake. He could do a good job of being a GM, but if the team continues to stink up the joint, and if, as a result, attendance starts to suffer, I think that McConnell would likely get rid of him. I would not be shocked that if the team finishes the season with a record worse than last year, that McConnell pulls the plug on DM after the season is over, right, wrong, or otherwise.

Regardless, I feel that DM the coach has lost control of this team and has run out of ideas on how to motivate them.

I think that Maclean should step down as coach and allow one of the assistants to finish the year. I think he was hoping for Joel Q at the end of last season and he wasn't available as expected. He needs to focus on player development and drafting.

As for coaching young players, I can't argue with the success of Rick Nash. He is getting prime minutes in key situations and I think he plays hard for Doug. Klesla's development was a big reason why King was fired according to Maclean and I can't say that the change behind the bench has really helped. Zherdev is getting close to 20 minutes a game lately so he is also coming along quickly. Perhaps it is the veterans that he can't develop. They look too comfortable in losing.

Also, does it concern anyone that Maclean s talking 3 year contract extenion with Tyler Wright at slightly over $1M per? I think Maclean may be too loyal to a certain core of veterans that simply haven't brought the leadership needed to change the culture of this team.

Keep him as GM, get a new coach. I don't buy the porous D theory yet ... let them play a few games healthy first and then come back with that argument and I might support it.

Bob Hartley has shown in Atlanta what a good coach can mean to an organization. Other than the big two of Kovalchuk and Heatley, that roster doesn't look a whole lot different than ours. In fact, I think ours actually looks better. Heatley hasn't played a game yet and they're still first in their division.

Get a real coach, get healthy, and this team could be in a lot better position than we are now.

Also, does it concern anyone that Maclean s talking 3 year contract extenion with Tyler Wright at slightly over $1M per? I think Maclean may be too loyal to a certain core of veterans that simply haven't brought the leadership needed to change the culture of this team.

I may be in the minority on this but, I for one don't have a problem with keeping Wright. He gives his all every shift, and gets under the other teams skin. Now 1 million may be a little steep, but I think he can bring a lot to the table in terms of killing penalties and drawing penalties. He hasn't taken any stupid ones that I can recall this year and that used to be his problem. He can pot about 12-15 goals a year. I think he is the type of player for a shutdown line that we were talking about earlier in the year. On top of everything else he is a funny guy, that is a good one to have in the locker room and he does a lot of work with the charities we are involved with.

I'd like to go with the majority and say keep as gm, fire as coach. I've also been of the opinion that he's made more good moves than bad. Hell I've said it here and on other boards before. But, you know what? The best team in four years was the first season. On paper, sure the last two years look better, but on ice, that team beats any of the other three. For all the moves he's made, the team isn't better.
I don't know what the problem is and I'm torn on the solution. Part of me says completely fire MacLean. Part of me says jumping to a 2nd gm and 3rd coach in the fourth season can't be good.
I too thought this would be the year they make a run, but maybe this team (hopefully) is closer to the early Ottawa and Tampa teams and not so much like the Wild or Panthers. That sucks for the time being. Our only hope is that in a few years this team truly will be set up for the long run.

I too thought this would be the year they make a run, but maybe this team (hopefully) is closer to the early Ottawa and Tampa teams and not so much like the Wild or Panthers. That sucks for the time being. Our only hope is that in a few years this team truly will be set up for the long run.

Kallio mentioned Ottawa's early teams, and I remembered them as being pretty horrendous. I guess I was right - I checked out Ottawa's records for their first four years of existence, and here's how they did:

Season 1 ('92-'93): 10-70-4 , 24 pts.
Season 2 : 14-61-9, 37 pts.
Season 3 (only 48 games played due to lockout): 9-34-5, 23 pts; projected over a full season: 39 pts.
Season 4: 18-59-5, 41 pts.

I don't remember if they were going strictly with young players or what, but those early Sens records make ours look pretty good. Their fifth season they started to become more respectable, winning 31 games, and going at least .500 each season afterward.

Rick Bowness, the original coach of the modern-day Senators, was fired in January of the team's fourth season. Jacques Martin, one of Bowness' assistants, took over and has kept the job since.

Rick Bowness, the original coach of the modern-day Senators, was fired in January of the team's fourth season. Jacques Martin, one of Bowness' assistants, took over and has kept the job since.

That settles it. January of year four approaches. Fire MacLean, but now who to hire? Gallant, Murphy or Brown?

That settles it. January of year four approaches. Fire MacLean, but now who to hire? Gallant, Murphy or Brown?

If I remember right, the only reason Maclean is coaching is because McConell wanted him to until the labor problems were solved and he didn't want to bring in a new guy until then. McConell is a big Maclean fan, and I really don't see him going anywhere until next year. I think it is a positive that he is coaching now so he can develop the young guys and figure out who we want to keep for the long haul. Let him finish this year and he'll probably hire a coach next year. I'd rather be in the playoffs from 2006-202? than 2004 and then again 2009-. It's growing pains, but everybody has to go through it. I know it's frustrating because on paper we have the talent, but I still want to get one or two high picks. The success the Wild had last year kind of puts pressure on us, but I mean I think that had a lot more to do with the system than the talent. Next year MacLean will hire a new coach, hopefully a good one and we will be on our way.

That settles it. January of year four approaches. Fire MacLean, but now who to hire? Gallant, Murphy or Brown?

I was hoping that someone would catch onto that. However, I'm not sure if any one of those three has what it takes to succeed at the NHL level. I'd rather us find a coach from a periennally successful organization who can teach our young kids how to win. I know that's something the players themselves have to learn, but someone has to lead the way.

Firing MacLean as coach is preposterous.

Name one coach that would have prevented the injuries that have cripped the team throughout the season.

When your defense is missing 4 of the top 6, you will allow goals that should have been prevented, you'll miss the transition, you'll feel it all across the ice.

Nash is playing wonderful in a Sophomore Slump season with a diminished supporting cast. Zherdev is a delight to watch. Brathwaite has added some drama to the dressing room. Malhotra is showing that he's capable of great things. Vyborny continues to be great, even when he's not scoring in buckets. And so on and so on.

I'm glad you all think we should be in the playoffs and are supporting the team, but calling for MacLean's head is foolish. This season has signs for the future like no other and we're talking about how we should change it all up for now.

Sorry, but I'm in this for the long haul. I want to see a team built that can perform well in the long haul. I've followed the game, I've seen what it takes. I can only imagine what you would all be saying during the Dead Things era.

The Nash trade could have been a disaster.

Ron Tugnutt and the 33rd Overall Pick for the 20th Overall Pick

:lol:

Those are the bad trades?

We got Nash for nothing... Could have been... blah blah blah... any deal could be a disaster.

The Tugnutt deal wasnt a bad one either. Tug's play was slipping. It was time to give the reins to Denis, to see if he could handle it.

So basically you have the Marshall deal that was bad... and not a bad trade for every good one...

...The best team in four years was the first season. On paper, sure the last two years look better, but on ice, that team beats any of the other three. For all the moves he's made, the team isn't better...

Correct me if Im wrong, but the only long term injury I remember in year 1 was to Oliwa. Might have something to do with it.

hi

im knew to these boards, just registered

we have season tickets(for 3 years now) and Im a huge Jackets fan


anyway... Maclean is an AMAZING GM and a medicore coach. Hes lost a step since becoming a GM earlier in his career.

I say let Newell Brown be coach for the year than find a new coach in the offseason.

Even though the Sydor trade was a good trade, it still failed to adress what the CBJs need. They need a better defense corps. Yes, 4 of 6 are out with injury, but realisitcally, the defense is still under-par. IMO, Doug has not made many boneheaded moves, but he still is failing to adress areas that are lacking.

We got Nash for nothing

What exactly are you implying, that the switch of 2003 first rounders with Florida to select 1st overall was a steal??? Columbus would have got Rick Nash at 3rd overall anyhow because Florida wanted a stud defenseman on the blueline in Bouwmeester and Atlanta wanted a franchise goalie in Lethonen so if anything Maclean actually took a huge risk and should have stayed at 3rd overall to save $$$ on Nash's big contract but now instead hes getting paid 1st overall type salary/bonuses instead.

What exactly are you implying, that the switch of 2003 first rounders with Florida to select 1st overall was a steal??? Columbus would have got Rick Nash at 3rd overall anyhow because Florida wanted a stud defenseman on the blueline in Bouwmeester and Atlanta wanted a franchise goalie in Lethonen so if anything Maclean actually took a huge risk and should have stayed at 3rd overall to save $$$ on Nash's big contract but now instead hes getting paid 1st overall type salary/bonuses instead.

A rumor going around was that the Caps were willing to offer Oullet and a whole lot of other stuff (picks and such), to the Thrashers to pick Nash. Nash was very sought ever (and you can see why now), there's no way you can't say Atlanta wouldn't have traded down from their position and let someone else pick Nash.

We've beaten this trade to death. Dudley gave Atlanta picks in assurnce that they wouldn't trade down or take J-Bo. Dudley won the '03 lottery on one of his ping pong balls, so the other part of the deal didn't matter. Columbus got Nash for FREE.

A rumor going around was that the Caps were willing to offer Oullet and a whole lot of other stuff (picks and such), to the Thrashers to pick Nash. Nash was very sought ever (and you can see why now), there's no way you can't say Atlanta wouldn't have traded down from their position and let someone else pick Nash.

We've beaten this trade to death. Dudley gave Atlanta picks in assurnce that they wouldn't trade down or take J-Bo. Dudley won the '03 lottery on one of his ping pong balls, so the other part of the deal didn't matter. Columbus got Nash for FREE.


Exactly. Maclean has not made any bad trades.

Marshall a BAD trade??? I think not. Marshall is horrible and overpaid. He played well in NJ due to his supporting cast. He has ONE goal so far.. hes horrible...

hes never made a bad trade for us

Daryl is an amazing guy, even if hes not the most defensive defenseman he ALWAYS gives hi all and is one of our best for holding leads.

Marshall a BAD trade??? I think not. Marshall is horrible and overpaid. He played well in NJ due to his supporting cast. He has ONE goal so far.. hes horrible...

I think his argument is that we gave up a second-round pick to acquire Marshall.

I don't think that was a bad trade, however, as Marshall had some value at that point and did well for us for a couple years. It was only after he was proclaimed to be a "power forward" and placed on the second line that he became worthless, which really wasn't his fault at all.

I don't think anyone can argue that MacLean has made bad trades; the only goof up on his part was a trade he DIDN'T make--taking the second and fifth round picks that were offered at the trade deadline last year for Whitney; but, he probably thougt he could sign Whitney at that point, so I'm not too displeased.

It's hard to argue against a guy who got picks from:

--Jamie Pushor (who's obviously back, so we got a fourth-rounder for nothing here)
--Frantisek Kucera
--Petr Tenkrat
--Grant Marshall
--Lyle Odelein (plus Spacek, of course)
--Mattias Timander

Correct me if Im wrong, but the only long term injury I remember in year 1 was to Oliwa. Might have something to do with it.

I believe that is true. The team also got some stellar play from Tugnutt, so those are obviously two big reasons why that team had its success. As a fan looking at rosters that was this franchise's worst team -- easy. The teams of the last two years should have been better. Playoff caliber? Probably not, but definitely not last place in the west.

There's a couple other things I want to touch on while I'm rambling.

I'm in this for the long haul too. I think DM has done a good job as GM. Maybe with more time coaching, that'll improve too. We still haven't seen much of the results from the drafts yet. That'll start soon though as guys like Johnson, Jackman and Leclaire get closer to the pros. Hopefully that will help down the line.
I only hope the majority of the fans in Columbus will be patient.

The problem with this year's team is I can't pin down a problem to fix. Everyone not named Nash has been INCONSISTENT. Goalies are ubeatable one night, swiss cheese the next. The D, both when injured and not, has been the same way. Offensively, everytime we get to 3+ goals, we somehow manage to give up more. Everytime we give up two or less, the offense scores the same or less.

Also, as to the Tugnutt trade. If I recall correctly, the 20th pick was traded down to the 30th + Pandolfo, then that was traded down to 41. So, for Tugnutt, they picked up the rights to Pandolfo, Lindstrom (who they could have gotten at 33) and one or two extra picks, on top of saving money. I don't think that was such a bad deal.

I don't think anyone can argue that MacLean has made bad trades; the only goof up on his part was a trade he DIDN'T make--taking the second and fifth round picks that were offered at the trade deadline last year for Whitney...

I agree that MacLean has made few bad trades,

But I think he has made some very bad decisions on key issues. If we're going to talk about the early days, let's closely examine the decision to build this team around Marc Denis as our "goalie of the future" from Day 1. We only gave up a second-rounder, and didn't miss out on anybody earth-shaking as a result, so it wasn't a "bad trade" per se.

But that was the reason DM had to trade Tugnutt, and the reason he gave up two choices (a fourth and a ninth) for Chris Nielsen (which I thought was overpaying at the time, and I still do). And the reason we didn't draft a high-end goalie prospect until Leclaire. And, if rumors are true, the reason we took Leclaire over Blackburn (which may or may not have been a mistake).

But for me the bottom line is: the problem with this team is not talent!

To use injuries as an excuse for not equalling the record of our first season is unrealistic. Any of our d-men playing right now - Walser, Rohloff, Ericksson - would have been absolute mainstays on that first team. (Remember Timmander? Nummelin?) Heck, Pushor was a mainstay on that team! We won't even mention the forwards!

The success in our first season was based on two things. Everybody worked their butts off every night, and Ron Tugnutt stole at least half a dozen games for us in goal.

Our subsequent failure to live up to that, despite vastly improved talent (Nash, Sydor, Marchant, Cassels, Spacek, Richardson, etc., etc.) makes me believe we have problems with leadership, motivation, and organization.

This is why I am gradually coming to believe it is time for a total restructuring of our management.

The success in our first season was based on two things. Everybody worked their butts off every night, and Ron Tugnutt stole at least half a dozen games for us in goal.

Our subsequent failure to live up to that, despite vastly improved talent (Nash, Sydor, Marchant, Cassels, Spacek, Richardson, etc., etc.) makes me believe we have problems with leadership, motivation, and organization.

This is why I am gradually coming to believe it is time for a total restructuring of our management.

I also think that a key to our success in our first season was simply that, it was our first season. Nobody expects anything from anyone, nobody expects you to win so the players can just go out and have fun, if they lose who cares that is to be expected. That isn't the atmosphere anymore, we've brought in players and are Expected to have results. I think the person that epitomizes this is Sanderson. The guy will go out and play when he has confidence. When he feels pressure from expectations he amounts to a faster David Ling. Growing Pains.

DM is going to be the head coach for a while...reason is the CBA.

I think management really believes there is going to be a long work stoppage. Why pay a coach to do nothing next season? And if you don’t think there will be a work stoppage next year, go back and read the Sanderson quote from the beginning of the season. Here’s Sandy, by all accounts a good and level headed guy, saying (paraphrasing by memory here) there is no way the union will agree to a salary cap.

Now, if that’s what Sandy is saying, what do you think some of the more outspoken players are saying? According to a story I read on TSN.com a few weeks ago, Jeremy Roenick already has a deal to play in Germany..the same team he played for in the last strike.

No new coach until the CBA is settled…sometime in 2005!

Fire...as Coach...

Anybody else getting these continuing road results after 2 and a half years of trying to correct them needs to be relinquished. I mean supremely confident MacLean can bring us to the playoffs...as a GM and President...Not a Coach..

Their are a few coaches that have been mentioned here in the last year or so... A few that stick out, Brian Skrudland, Todd McLellan (Houston Areos, thanks Sam for mentioning this guy), Gary Agnew? Of Course my first choice, Larry Robinson. Lets add Paul Maurice and Bruce Cassidy to that list too... Their are a slew of them out there, Doug behind the Bench wasn't the answer last year (results the same as with King the first half of the year...) And obviously The Prez-GM behind the bench isn't moving the guys any faster or have them anymore concerned about their jobs here.

The Sad part is, if the road stays the same the second half of the season, then DM will be fired...not only as coach, but gm as well...I would hate to see that, considering what a talented team he has assembled in the last four years.... :teach:

Firing MacLean as coach is preposterous.

Name one coach that would have prevented the injuries that have cripped the team throughout the season.

When your defense is missing 4 of the top 6, you will allow goals that should have been prevented, you'll miss the transition, you'll feel it all across the ice.

Nash is playing wonderful in a Sophomore Slump season with a diminished supporting cast. Zherdev is a delight to watch. Brathwaite has added some drama to the dressing room. Malhotra is showing that he's capable of great things. Vyborny continues to be great, even when he's not scoring in buckets. And so on and so on.

I'm glad you all think we should be in the playoffs and are supporting the team, but calling for MacLean's head is foolish. This season has signs for the future like no other and we're talking about how we should change it all up for now.

Sorry, but I'm in this for the long haul. I want to see a team built that can perform well in the long haul. I've followed the game, I've seen what it takes. I can only imagine what you would all be saying during the Dead Things era.

Amen, Bro.

A rumor going around was that the Caps were willing to offer Oullet and a whole lot of other stuff (picks and such), to the Thrashers to pick Nash. Nash was very sought ever (and you can see why now), there's no way you can't say Atlanta wouldn't have traded down from their position and let someone else pick Nash.

We've beaten this trade to death. Dudley gave Atlanta picks in assurnce that they wouldn't trade down or take J-Bo. Dudley won the '03 lottery on one of his ping pong balls, so the other part of the deal didn't matter. Columbus got Nash for FREE.

Maxime Ouellet looks to be like a guy who will be a starter in this league but Kari Lehtonen is tagged as a premier Future franchise goaltender. Atlanta's GM Don Waddell had numerous offers too when they won the lottery for the #1 overall pick in 2001 and were actively shopping for a deal to get better but instead chose to keep it and that #1 overall pick ended up being Ilya Kovalchuk so I think its a safe bet that they learned their lesson and wouldn't have traded the #2 overall pick in 2002 to move down for a lesser rated prospect and some extra picks. Nash is a great player but great goaltending wins you championships and I think Atlanta would have chosen Lehtonen no matter what since they wanted a franchise goaltender and knew Columbus and Florida already had that in Denis and Luongo so Waddell basically just played head games w/ Maclean and Dudley forcing Maclean to not take any chances and trade up and Dudley to not take any chances and secure Bouwmeester.

It almost worked for Dudley, I would have gladly given up those Atlanta picks had Florida been in the playoffs and then switched up with Columbus but I guess Dudley did not know what kind of financial money troubles he would be getting into (or power struggles with Keenan for that matter) when he joined on during that offseason and the owners did not invest *ANY* $$$ into the team for a playoff run when we looked to be right in the thick of it with the Bruins, Islanders, Rangers, and Canadiens for those last 2 playoff spots and in fact did the opposite of spending to prepare for the upcoming labor war (CBA) so they had to trade off one of Florida's most expensive offensive vets in Sandis Ozolinsh (sure helped the Ducks playoff run LOL) before the All-Star Break and didn't replace his role until March by signing Igor Kravchuk (he played 0 NHL games and no training camp that season prior to signing :madfire: ). Maclean on the other hand spent a lot of money on vets before the start of the season to prevent any "flip-flopping" of picks from happening and go for your own playoff run but both teams ended up doing what they had not envisioned and finished at the bottom of the cellar. :cry:

I say keep and keep.

IMO, DM the GM is a no-brainer. Shrewd trader, and a good judge of young talent.

I think DM the GM trying to coach is asking/expecting too much from one person, over the long haul. But from what they've said, this was Mr. McConnell's decision---not to attemt to bring in a new coach heading into the CBA mess. So, if that's what Mr. McConnell wants,....

I don't think we'll lose DM the GM because of the performance of the team under DM the coach---I trust that Mr. McConnell is too level-headed for that. He wants to wait for the CBA situation to sort itself out before bringing in a new coach; fine by me.