Kobe > Michael Jordan?

Ar-too
03-26-2007, 12:56 PM
As ridiculous as it sounds, I think I agree with this article.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=hill/070326&sportCat=nba

Kobe can do everything Michael did, and even a few things Michael couldn't do.

Kobe is just as good a defender. His killer instinct is just as pronounced. He can shoot, finish and explode. And just like Jordan, the more he's pissed off, the more unstoppable he is.

At the very least, Kobe's scoring spree over the last week should put to rest any lingering doubts that he's the best player in the NBA. Yes, better than Steve Nash, who is the best point guard, but not the lethal force that Kobe is. Yes, better than Dwyane Wade, who is certainly closer to the Kobe-Jordan level than LeBron James, but D-Wade's game is not as polished as Kobe's.

Mods, I know we already have a Kobe thread, but I think this topic deserves its own considering what Kobe's been up to of late.

took420s
03-26-2007, 01:50 PM
2 pro Kobe threads :yo:


Kobe still has a lot of ball left in him, lets see how his career unfolds before we make statements like these. I will say if he continues his dominance for a few more years and possibly wins another title...He will go down as > MJ, but not as respected (even though MJ has as much dirty laundry as KB...it was just kept quiet while he was playing).


Placing 4th in MVP voting last year was a disgrace IMO.

Nalyd Psycho
03-26-2007, 02:44 PM
He's gotta lead a team to vistory before this can be concidered.

kidAcbj
03-26-2007, 03:09 PM
the article brought up some excellent points and i have to agree with all of them


i cant stand kobe bryant but i have to admit that at the pace hes goin he may end up being the best player ever

Live in the Now
03-26-2007, 03:22 PM
Is Kobe the best player ever, probably. Is he the best teammate, no. Will he have a better career than Jordan, no.

That's how I, as a Laker fan, feel about it.

KesselBuiltMyHotrod
03-26-2007, 03:35 PM
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/3174/kvjhc8.jpg

Plus the whole championships thing.

Of course, he's only what, 29? We'll see. But right now, no.

Dr.Funk
03-26-2007, 04:14 PM
As of now Kobe isn't even in MJ's league. When he retires who knows but not right now.

mr gib
03-26-2007, 06:55 PM
he's got a bunch of rings to go if you ask me

took420s
03-26-2007, 07:30 PM
As of now Kobe isn't even in MJ's league. When he retires who knows but not right now.

Oh he's definitely in MJ's league, but without a complete career its not fair to compare them.

If you want to compare Kobe at 28 vs. MJ at 28, now that's fair. MJ didn't start wining titles until he was Kobe's age, while KB already has 3.

No, Kobe has A LOT of ball left to hopefully get another ring and finally some NBA respect. Or he blows out his knee and he simply becomes remembered as another one of the greats...but not "the greatest". I could care less, just glad he's on my favorite team and I get to watch him play.

took420s
03-26-2007, 07:34 PM
Is Kobe the best player ever, probably. Is he the best teammate, no. Will he have a better career than Jordan, no.

That's how I, as a Laker fan, feel about it.

Everybody forgets that Jordan was considered a "ball hog" and not a good teammate until Phil, Pippen, and Rodman came along.

Championships change everything, if KB can just manage 1 more his image will completely change IMO.

Ar-too
03-26-2007, 07:37 PM
Oh he's definitely in MJ's league, but without a complete career its not fair to compare them.

If you want to compare Kobe at 28 vs. MJ at 28, now that's fair. MJ didn't start wining titles until he was Kobe's age, while KB already has 3.

No, Kobe has A LOT of ball left to hopefully get another ring and finally some NBA respect. Or he blows out his knee and he simply becomes remembered as another one of the greats...but not "the greatest". I could care less, just glad he's on my favorite team and I get to watch him play.
Kobe and Iverson are the most compelling players to watch of their generation (post-Michael and pre-Lebron). They do things noone else can do.

Dr.Funk
03-27-2007, 01:28 AM
Kobe and Iverson are the most compelling players to watch of their generation (post-Michael and pre-Lebron). They do things noone else can do.


Is it a coincidence that both have the same reputation?

Ar-too
03-27-2007, 09:46 AM
Is it a coincidence that both have the same reputation?

Honest question: What do you perceive their reputation to be? If you're just talking about ball hogging, okay, but I think they've both shown over the years that they're able to share the ball with capable players.

Kobe's much more than a ball hog and the problems he's had over the years go much deeper than that.

Iverson, on the other hand, made it to the Finals with the best group of players he ever had (Snow, Lynch, Hill, past his prime Deke, Bell, etc.). It's no coincidence that that was his apex as a player. Check out his assist numbers since he went to Denver. Check out his shots per game numbers since he went there. And it's not like his minutes have decreased substantially.

ACC1224
03-27-2007, 10:03 AM
Honest question: What do you perceive their reputation to be? If you're just talking about ball hogging, okay, but I think they've both shown over the years that they're able to share the ball with capable players.

Kobe's much more than a ball hog and the problems he's had over the years go much deeper than that.

Iverson, on the other hand, made it to the Finals with the best group of players he ever had (Snow, Lynch, Hill, past his prime Deke, Bell, etc.). It's no coincidence that that was his apex as a player. Check out his assist numbers since he went to Denver. Check out his shots per game numbers since he went there. And it's not like his minutes have decreased substantially.

Disgusting human beings.

Transported Upstater
03-27-2007, 11:09 AM
Kobe > Michael Jordan?

That's complete garbage. :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:

Kobe has never been the leader of a championship team. Jordan was the leader of SIX.

O'Neal was far more important in the playoffs than Kobe was.

thomasincanada
03-27-2007, 02:40 PM
That article reads more like a Kobe fans point of view as opposed to objective journalism. He made some assumptions about things that are wild guesses at best.

The only thing I agree with 100 percent in that article is yes, I am personally offended by the whole notion that Kobe would be considered better than Jordan at this stage. For me, it's not even that close right now.

At 28, Jordan knew full well that if he went out and tried to score 50 points a night the Bulls would get nowhere and he'd just wear himself out. Jordan made mediocre teammates seem like stars (Horace Grant, anyone?). It seems like Kobe hasn't figured that out yet and I'm guessing he'll burn out just in time for the playoffs again this year.

Porn*
03-27-2007, 05:44 PM
hell no... come on lol.

Troy McClure
03-28-2007, 01:26 PM
I'm going with no.

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/6870/rings8nq.png

vs.

http://www.jayquan.com/shaq_kobe_jpg.jpg

We all know it's Jordan.

ATG
03-28-2007, 01:32 PM
I'm going with no.

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/6870/rings8nq.png

vs.

http://www.jayquan.com/shaq_kobe_jpg.jpg

We all know it's Jordan.


:biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :handclap: exactly

took420s
03-28-2007, 03:20 PM
I'm going with no.

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/6870/rings8nq.png

vs.

http://www.jayquan.com/shaq_kobe_jpg.jpg

We all know it's Jordan.

:biglaugh:

That's good!

The Sanchise
03-29-2007, 05:56 PM
Jordan dominated his era and now Kobe is dominating his era. Right now Kobe is easily hands down the best ball player in the entire NBA and he may not be as good as Michael but I would say he is close to being one of the best players of all time. That is a hard discussion though because there were so many great players over the years.

IMO Kobe has probably 8 years left in the league and will probably win another title if not more.

Kobe was on a great team that threepeated and although Michael was a reat player I don't think anyone can say he carried a team with the likes of Pippen, Rodman and one of the best supporting casts I have ever seen on a championship team.

Right now MJ is still better but 8 years from now could be a different thing, Kobe was the youngest player ever to reach 20,000 career points including playoffs and 18,000 career regular season points this season (I believe those were the records). Which if he plays to the age of Jordan and the other hall of famers there is a VERY good chance he could be the highest scorer in NBA history, which is an amazing accomplishment.

BwayBshirt
03-29-2007, 06:07 PM
Jordan dominated his era and now Kobe is dominating his era. Right now Kobe is easily hands down the best ball player in the entire NBA and he may not be as good as Michael but I would say he is close to being one of the best players of all time. That is a hard discussion though because there were so many great players over the years.

IMO Kobe has probably 8 years left in the league and will probably win another title if not more.

Kobe was on a great team that threepeated and although Michael was a reat player I don't think anyone can say he carried a team with the likes of Pippen, Rodman and one of the best supporting casts I have ever seen on a championship team.

Right now MJ is still better but 8 years from now could be a different thing, Kobe was the youngest player ever to reach 20,000 career points including playoffs and 18,000 career regular season points this season (I believe those were the records). Which if he plays to the age of Jordan and the other hall of famers there is a VERY good chance he could be the highest scorer in NBA history, which is an amazing accomplishment.

umm, kobe 3-peated mainly because of shaq. they needed each other to win, but as of now it's obvious to anyone that shaq was far less dependant on kobe than vice versa. when kobe can get to the finals, much less win, champsionship no. 1 w/o a big guy who's anywhere in the area code like that then color me impressed.

as far as "hands-down" best player in the league i'll agree and he is the closest thing to jordan. but i have a feeling in no more than 3 years wade if healthy will be taking that crown.

jaydub*
03-29-2007, 11:03 PM
Everybody forgets that Jordan was considered a "ball hog" and not a good teammate until Phil, Pippen, and Rodman came along.

Championships change everything, if KB can just manage 1 more his image will completely change IMO.

Jordan had 3 titles when Rodman came to the bulls. Jordan is better easily. When Kobe leads a team to an NBA championship without Shaq this conversation can happen. Until then there is no comparison.

Transported Upstater
03-30-2007, 02:53 PM
I'm going with no.

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/6870/rings8nq.png

vs.

http://www.jayquan.com/shaq_kobe_jpg.jpg

We all know it's Jordan.

That is the best possible way to put it.

took420s
03-30-2007, 03:32 PM
but as of now it's obvious to anyone that shaq was far less dependant on kobe than vice versa.

You say this, yet you know damn well Wade (and the refs treatment of him) were the reason the Heat won last year. This whole taking away Kobe's 3 rings because he had Snaq is ridiculous.


but i have a feeling in no more than 3 years wade if healthy will be taking that crown

Wade is a creation of the refs. The guy cannot shoot from anywhere except under the basket. He's the best penetration guard in the league...but Kobe scores with efficiency from everywhere.

In 3 years D-Wheels will be out of the league due to the physical abuse he takes.

Dr.Funk
03-30-2007, 05:51 PM
Wade will never be the best player in the league not overall, not even at his position.

The guy can't even shoot the 3.

took420s
03-30-2007, 06:43 PM
Wade will never be the best player in the league not overall, not even at his position.

The guy can't even shoot the 3.


Last season I saw a shot chart for Wade, if its not a layup/dunk there's a good chance its not going in. This is why he is not a great choice for international play...the refs allow more contact and do not give him the NBA freethrow bonanza.

If Lebron decides to play defense, he could be the "best all around" in a few years.

BwayBshirt
03-30-2007, 06:58 PM
You say this, yet you know damn well Wade (and the refs treatment of him) were the reason the Heat won last year. This whole taking away Kobe's 3 rings because he had Snaq is ridiculous.




Wade is a creation of the refs. The guy cannot shoot from anywhere except under the basket. He's the best penetration guard in the league...but Kobe scores with efficiency from everywhere.

In 3 years D-Wheels will be out of the league due to the physical abuse he takes.

of course wade carried the heat last season. i wouldn't deny that. but shaq's also on his last legs and has been dating back to the beginning of last season. i'm talking about shaq during his best seasons. when he helped to make penny hardaway into something in orlando because there was crap around both of them. and don't give me some "oh, shaq was nothing in orlando w/o penny" garbage. anybody, and i mean ANYBODY who followed the magic will tell you that team had no business going to a final, much less being highly competitive with the knicks and pacers (i won't really include the bulls because of jordan's situation).

and as for the lakers, shaq was easily the best player on those teams when he wanted to be. w/o bryant, the lakers would have taken a little bit longer to find a good enough player to play san antonio with. w/o shaq, the spurs would have worked on one of the best dynasties in sports history.

BwayBshirt
03-30-2007, 07:01 PM
Wade will never be the best player in the league not overall, not even at his position.

The guy can't even shoot the 3.

yet he's still only in his 4th season. how can you write him off so quickly when he has shown the same great maturity at the nba as he did at marquette?

BwayBshirt
03-30-2007, 07:04 PM
Last season I saw a shot chart for Wade, if its not a layup/dunk there's a good chance its not going in. This is why he is not a great choice for international play...the refs allow more contact and do not give him the NBA freethrow bonanza.

If Lebron decides to play defense, he could be the "best all around" in a few years.

i'm not claiming wade is a better scorer than bryant, that will never be the case. but his defense is almost as good, his ball distribution is better, and he's just as clutch. they are more comparable than you're leading on.

Nalyd Psycho
03-31-2007, 01:43 AM
Jordan dominated his era and now Kobe is dominating his era. Right now Kobe is easily hands down the best ball player in the entire NBA and he may not be as good as Michael but I would say he is close to being one of the best players of all time. That is a hard discussion though because there were so many great players over the years.

The problem is, Kobe isn't hands down the best player. Legit arguments can be made for Duncan, Nash, Nowitski and Kobe. All have their strengths and weaknesses. All have valid reasons for the ranking.

Kobe's damn good, but not the player Kobe fans make him out to be.

took420s
03-31-2007, 12:06 PM
i'm not claiming wade is a better scorer than bryant, that will never be the case. but his defense is almost as good, his ball distribution is better, and he's just as clutch. they are more comparable than you're leading on.

I admit I'm not a Wade guy, dude is an awesome talent though. We'll see how he handles the team once Snaq is gone and Riley bails again...

The Sanchise
03-31-2007, 11:18 PM
umm, kobe 3-peated mainly because of shaq. they needed each other to win, but as of now it's obvious to anyone that shaq was far less dependant on kobe than vice versa. when kobe can get to the finals, much less win, champsionship no. 1 w/o a big guy who's anywhere in the area code like that then color me impressed.

as far as "hands-down" best player in the league i'll agree and he is the closest thing to jordan. but i have a feeling in no more than 3 years wade if healthy will be taking that crown.


I love everyone's logic towards Wade, Kobe is carried to three titles but Wade is dominant and wasn't carried at all.

Wade isn't even at the level of Lebron James right now but no Wade is just surrounded (past two years) with Shaq, Mourning, both Jones', Walker, Williams, Haslem, Kapono. Like seriously Miami has one of the best rosters I have ever seen and it was an insanely good one last year too.



Also if you read any sportswriter's at all with credibility or just aren't Kobe haters who actually come out and say they don't like Kobe and his attitude they all say he is the best right now. It's just pretty bad that the media and fans have to hate on a guy who is the best at his craft, like people hate Brady and Manning, people hate Crosby, and people hate Kobe.

BwayBshirt
04-02-2007, 11:55 PM
I love everyone's logic towards Wade, Kobe is carried to three titles but Wade is dominant and wasn't carried at all.

Wade isn't even at the level of Lebron James right now but no Wade is just surrounded (past two years) with Shaq, Mourning, both Jones', Walker, Williams, Haslem, Kapono. Like seriously Miami has one of the best rosters I have ever seen and it was an insanely good one last year too.



Also if you read any sportswriter's at all with credibility or just aren't Kobe haters who actually come out and say they don't like Kobe and his attitude they all say he is the best right now. It's just pretty bad that the media and fans have to hate on a guy who is the best at his craft, like people hate Brady and Manning, people hate Crosby, and people hate Kobe.


one of the best rosters you've ever seen?:biglaugh:

i'm sorry, are you on crack? 2 years ago maybe you have an argument there. last season? all due respect but you're out of your mind. wade basically strapped that team to his back and they rode him past detroit and dallas. anything anybody else did offensively practically 90% of the time was because of wade. haslem is the only one i'll give you as being flat-out good. we don't know jack yet about kapono.

mourning was a great player...BEFORE his kidney ailments. now he's just a good, not great, defensive player off the bench. same for e. jones. walker and williams have been past their prime or have seen the better part of their careers come and go well before they came to miami.

shaq had by far his worst season last year, it was the first year he started to show his age and injuries getting to him and i guarantee the reason he's looked much better this season is because he didn't have to start it off healthy. he had plenty of more time to rest, rehab, and make sure he was in decent shape to play.

by all rights (and every single person with any credibility media or fan will tell you this) the heat should have been d.o.a. vs. the pistons much less the mavs or any of the big dawgs out west. and of the recent nba champions they were undoubtedly the worst in a long, long time.

if you honestly believe they had one of the best rosters you've seen then your comments previously in this thread bear no merit.

Ar-too
04-04-2007, 01:54 PM
The follow-up article for anyone who cares:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=hill/070330&sportCat=nba

Nalyd Psycho
04-04-2007, 03:45 PM
A much more reasonable collumn, but, still missing the fundamental problem, compairing anyone to Jordan is just wrong.

Dr.Funk
04-04-2007, 05:42 PM
There will never be another player that will be both the best offensive and best defensive player in the league.

Troy McClure
04-04-2007, 06:40 PM
A much more reasonable collumn, but, still missing the fundamental problem, compairing anyone to Jordan is just wrong.

I think we're seeing that he got what he wanted: tons of web hits, tons of email, national attention, and now a follow-up article that will generate more of the same.

Detox
04-04-2007, 08:11 PM
I think we're seeing that he got what he wanted: tons of web hits, tons of email, national attention, and now a follow-up article that will generate more of the same.

Have to give it to her for writing a piece thats detailed and well-carried out rather then whaat we usually see in journalistic debates where the author will spout out a claim and leave nothing to support it

KesselBuiltMyHotrod
04-04-2007, 08:35 PM
Oh, it's a chick? That explains it.

God Bless Canada
04-16-2007, 01:51 PM
I don't think Kobe has Jordan's killer instinct or competitive streak. And that's no slight to Kobe. It's just that in those aspects, Jordan's unmatched in basketball. It's what elevated Jordan above his peers, and every other generation. It's why Jordan was so dominant in the playoffs. It's why he was the guy you wanted holding the ball in the waning seconds of a one-point game or a tie game.

Kobe's a brilliant player. But he's not in Jordan's class. And he never will be.

DamoTayo*
04-16-2007, 10:29 PM
SKILL WISE YES, CLUTCH WISE...HELL NO ...jordan won a series on his own when he was suppose to be lying on a hospital bed. kobe to jordan is like lemieux to gretzky in hockey.

espo*
04-17-2007, 09:32 AM
Kobe > Michael Jordan?

That's complete garbage. :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:

Kobe has never been the leader of a championship team. Jordan was the leader of SIX.

O'Neal was far more important in the playoffs than Kobe was.

So true.

Jordan was a superior player,the leading guy on teams that won 6 championships(teams that did'nt have an unbelievable centre like Shaq who like you said was the number one player on the team not Kobe)

Jordan with the far better career for sure and by a good margin.

Far more legndary career by far.

pelts35.com
04-17-2007, 10:44 AM
Had Kobe's ego not gotten in the way and could have co-existed with Shaq the responses in this thread might be different.

If he could have shared the spotlight the Lakers might have 5 or more championships and, instead Kobe is the star on a mediocre basketball team. I hope he is happy with that.

DamoTayo*
04-17-2007, 12:54 PM
The follow-up article for anyone who cares:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=hill/070330&sportCat=nba
Jemele Hill...where have you been all my life? lol

took420s
04-17-2007, 04:04 PM
Had Kobe's ego not gotten in the way and could have co-existed with Shaq the responses in this thread might be different.

If he could have shared the spotlight the Lakers might have 5 or more championships and, instead Kobe is the star on a mediocre basketball team. I hope he is happy with that.

If you knew anything about the Lakers situation during the Shaq trade your post would be a lot different.

Oh well, give Kobe all the blame if it works for you...

Dr.Funk
04-17-2007, 06:13 PM
If you knew anything about the Lakers situation during the Shaq trade your post would be a lot different.

Oh well, give Kobe all the blame if it works for you...


You should know by now that Shaq is god and can do no wrong.

took420s
04-17-2007, 07:06 PM
You should know by now that Shaq is god and can do no wrong.

Yeah I know...its just difficult to read the same BS over and over.

Thread should be locked because the original article was obviously written to generate Jordan>>>>Kobe emails...his follow up article proved it.

Playoffs are starting, let's see what happens.

Nas_Bert_Morr*
05-01-2007, 04:36 PM
Disgusting human beings.

Explain to me, without drawing the race card, how Kobe Bryant and Allen Iverson are "disgusting human beings"

Kobe was wrongly accused of **** where clearly a girl lied to try and get into his wallet. Dany Heatley was rightly convicted of vehicular homicide and five other charges.

Allen Iverson has always had a "bad boy" attitude, and has never gotten along with authority. Dominik Hasek beat up a kid in an inline hockey game, Todd Bertuzzi...well...., and Brett Hull and Jeremy Roenick have never minced words when criticizing the league or something else.

So what makes Kobe Bryant and Allen Iverson "disgusting human beings" and these other guys "athletes that made mistakes"? It wouldn't have anything to do with the tattoos, Air Force Ones and baggy jeans vs. clean cut, sneakers and slacks?

GKJ
05-01-2007, 07:05 PM
Let me know when Kobe wins 6 finals MVP's and we'll talk.

joe_shannon_1983*
05-18-2007, 09:45 PM
How on Earth can anyone consider Bryant to be anywhere near Jordan?

Just look at the following:

Regular Season MVP Awards:
Jordan = 5
Bryant = 0

Regular Season Scoring Titles:
Jordan = 10
Bryant = 2

All-NBA Teams:
Jordan = 11 (10-1st; 1-2nd)
Bryant = 7 (5-1st; 2-2nd)

Finals NBA Awards:
Jordan = 6
Bryant = 0

Championships:
Jordan = 6
Bryant = 3

These awards and honours go to the "best of the best". And Bryant gets hammered in every single one of them.