Final Team Canada Roster Set

CharlieGirl
12-16-2003, 04:21 AM
http://www.tsn.ca/world_jrs/news_story.asp?ID=64518&hubName=world_jrs

White among final six cuts
Canadian Press
12/16/2003

Veteran defenceman Ian White of the Swift Current Broncos was among the six players released from the Canadian junior hockey team on Tuesday morning.

The other players cut from the team were forwards Kyle Brodziak of the Moose Jaw Warriors and Corey Perry of the London Knights, goaltenders Jeff Drouin-Deslauriers of the Chicoutimi Sagueneens and Cam Ward of the Red Deer Rebels, and defenceman Mike Egener of the Calgary Hitmen.

The roster was reduced to the 22 players who will represent Canada at the 2004 world junior hockey championship in Finland.

White, who helped Canada win a silver medal at the 2003 world junior hockey championship in Halifax, was coming off an ankle injury when he arrived at selection camp. He was unable to practise with the other players or play in intrasquad or exhibition games.

Canadian team head coach Mario Durocher decided that White would not be ready to play for Canada when it opens the tournament on Dec. 26.

Canadian
12-16-2003, 04:37 AM
I guess the final roster looks something like this then.


2004 Canadian World Junior Team

Goaltenders (2)
Marc-Andre Fleury
Josh Harding

Defence (7)
Shawn Belle
Braydon Coburn
Josh Gorges
Kevin Klein
Derek Meech
Dion Phaneuf
Brent Seabrook

Forwards (13)
Tim Brent
Brent Burns
Jeff Carter
Jeremy Colliton
Sidney Crosby
Nigel Dawes
Stephen Dixon
Ryan Getzlaf
Daniel Paille
Mike Richards
Anthony Stewart
Maxime Talbot
Jeff Tambellini

littleD
12-16-2003, 04:40 AM
It's a shame that White wasn't over his injury yet. Returning players are usually key in short tournies like this.

Anyways, only 10 more days. :)

The Lehner
12-16-2003, 04:50 AM
I'm very surprised that Corey Perry got cut from the team - I didn't get to see the games against the OUA - am I the only surprised person?

V for Voodoo
12-16-2003, 04:59 AM
I'm very surprised that Corey Perry got cut from the team - I didn't get to see the games against the OUA - am I the only surprised person?

and Brodziak with an ever better performance at camp.

But hey, Durochers has his two QMJHL players in Talbot & Dixon instead of them. Great :shakehead

flamesfan01800
12-16-2003, 05:08 AM
and Brodziak with an ever better performance at camp.

But hey, Durochers has his two QMJHL players in Talbot & Dixon instead of them. Great :shakehead


here here. i think perry should of made it over one of these guys.

CharlieGirl
12-16-2003, 05:16 AM
here here. i think perry should of made it over one of these guys.
I thought Brodziak deserved a spot - more so than Perry.

Seachd
12-16-2003, 05:16 AM
How did Colliton make this team? Why are they ignoring the guys with actual skill, especially when they had better camps?

Mike8
12-16-2003, 05:28 AM
and Brodziak with an ever better performance at camp.

But hey, Durochers has his two QMJHL players in Talbot & Dixon instead of them. Great :shakehead

This is a fairly ridiculous implication. There have been several Q players cut, including Deslauriers today. Dixon and Talbot had strong camps, and their spots were deserved in my opinion.

I'm disappointed to see Brodziak cut and I'd rather have seen him there than a few players, but I'm not surprised. I'm very pleased to see Klein make the team.

V for Voodoo
12-16-2003, 05:35 AM
This is a fairly ridiculous implication. There have been several Q players cut, including Deslauriers today. Dixon and Talbot had strong camps, and their spots were deserved in my opinion.

I'm disappointed to see Brodziak cut and I'd rather have seen him there than a few players, but I'm not surprised. I'm very pleased to see Klein make the team.

We'll have a better indication when the dust settles, but i think the final cuts at forward were very poor. The fact that a guy like Brodziak was an unknown before camp certainly worked against him, and it appears that no matter the type of camp he put up, he was going home, because he was excellent by all accounts. I digress.

Teezax
12-16-2003, 05:36 AM
Goaltenders (2)
Marc-Andre Fleury
Josh Harding

Defence (7)
Shawn Belle
Braydon Coburn
Josh Gorges
Kevin Klein
Derek Meech
Dion Phaneuf
Brent Seabrook

Forwards (13)
Tim Brent
Brent Burns
Jeff Carter
Jeremy Colliton
Sidney Crosby
Nigel Dawes
Stephen Dixon
Ryan Getzlaf
Daniel Paille
Mike Richards
Anthony Stewart
Maxime Talbot
Jeff Tambellini

Flyers represent!!

DarkHorse
12-16-2003, 05:45 AM
How did Colliton make this team? Why are they ignoring the guys with actual skill, especially when they had better camps?

Character means quite a bit as well.
This isn't an all-star game. It's a tournament.

Predatore
12-16-2003, 06:02 AM
How would you guys compare this team to Canada's teams previous years?

I must admit that there are quite a few names there that I am unfamiliar with (Josh Gorges, Brent Burns, Tim Brent, Jeremy Colliton, Nigel Dawes, Stephen Dixon).
Is this year's team a bit weaker "on the paper" than in previous years or does it hold up pretty good?
thanks

DJ Spinoza
12-16-2003, 06:04 AM
To me, it looks like they went on a little more than just the exhibition games.

Glad Talbot, Dixon, and Fleury made it. I was a little worried about Fleury's chances...:p

Vyse64
12-16-2003, 06:05 AM
politics yet again :rant:
the politics of 2 French Canadian goalies happened again this year too i hope it blows up in their face like last year

Ticallion961
12-16-2003, 06:06 AM
Too bad about White

any thoughts on who the PP QB is gonna be

Slats432
12-16-2003, 06:07 AM
politics yet again :rant:
the politics of 2 French Canadian goalies happened again this year too i hope it blows up in their face like last year

Aside from being an Oilers fan, don't ya think that Harding could possibly be just as good as Jeff Drouin-Deslauriers?

Vyse64
12-16-2003, 06:12 AM
Aside from being an Oilers fan, don't ya think that Harding could possibly be just as good as Jeff Drouin-Deslauriers?

actually yes I do
from what I saw,heard, and read, JDD deserves to be the back up and yes and I did the same with Harding

but still I hope it blows up in thier faces

Munchausen
12-16-2003, 06:14 AM
politics yet again :rant:
the politics of 2 French Canadian goalies happened again this year too i hope it blows up in their face like last year

You seem to be struggling understanding the concept of "politics"...

RoadWarrior
12-16-2003, 06:15 AM
Goaltenders (2)
Marc-Andre Fleury
Josh Harding

Defence (7)
Shawn Belle
Braydon Coburn
Josh Gorges
Kevin Klein
Derek Meech
Dion Phaneuf
Brent Seabrook

Forwards (13)
Tim Brent
Brent Burns
Jeff Carter
Jeremy Colliton
Sidney Crosby
Nigel Dawes
Stephen Dixon
Ryan Getzlaf
Daniel Paille
Mike Richards
Anthony Stewart
Maxime Talbot
Jeff Tambellini

Flyers represent!!


All I can say is that Fluery had better get ready to do some handstands because were going to get outshot about 2 to 1 by the Russians. Burns, Tambellini, Getzlaf, Crosby and maybe Richards are the only offense we have. Phaneuf will be forced to play huge minutes. This is one team that's been damaged by the NHL not releasing players. Imagine Nash, Bouchard, Staal, Horton, Bergeron on the team.

Jeremy Colliton? He's supposed to shut down Ovechkin? LOL

CharlieGirl
12-16-2003, 06:21 AM
No surprises on the Captain and the Assistants:

Head coach Mario Durocher also announced that Daniel Paillé (Welland, ON/Guelph, OHL), will be the team’s captain. Assistant captains will be Tim Brent (Cambridge, ON/ Toronto St. Michael’s, OHL) and Maxime Talbot (St-Bruno, QC/ Gatineau, QMJHL).

Bud The Spud*
12-16-2003, 06:25 AM
politics yet again :rant:
the politics of 2 French Canadian goalies happened again this year too i hope it blows up in their face like last year

Isn't it possible that they truly believe Harding will be a better backup for the tournament? I really did think Drouin-Delauriers would be the backup though. Did anybody else expect the same?

Egil
12-16-2003, 06:32 AM
Isn't it possible that they truly believe Harding will be a better backup for the tournament? I really did think Drouin-Delauriers would be the backup though. Did anybody else expect the same?

To me, Deslauriers looked weak in the second intrasquad game. He had 0 rebound control, and got lucky that more goals wern't scored against him. And I don't think you want the CLEAR backup playing a very different style from the main guy, cause it simply causes confusion amongst the defense.

speeds
12-16-2003, 06:52 AM
the only cut that especially disappoints me is Brodziak.

He was a longshot going in, understood, but what I don't understand is why they bother invitiing him at all if they don't give him a fair chance to make the club. From what I've read it sounds like he deserved to make the squad as much as anyone, but it can't help to have been a 7th rounder.

nordique
12-16-2003, 06:53 AM
How would you guys compare this team to Canada's teams previous years?

I must admit that there are quite a few names there that I am unfamiliar with (Josh Gorges, Brent Burns, Tim Brent, Jeremy Colliton, Nigel Dawes, Stephen Dixon).
Is this year's team a bit weaker "on the paper" than in previous years or does it hold up pretty good?
thanks

Brent Burns has been playing in the NHL with the Wild, so he's pretty easy to check up on. Tim Brent is the star of the St. Mike's Majors and Anaheim property - their 2nd round pick in 2002 - not a big guy but a solid two-way player. Dawes is tiny (5'8") and is Rangers property, but is a scoring machine. Colliton was the Isles' 2nd round pick last year, good in the corners but not a huge offensive threat. Gorges is Shark property, a decent overall player, good passer. Dixon was a laaaaaate pick by Pittsburgh, plays for Cape Breton in the Q, good faceoff guy, quick, good passer, not a finisher.

Brock
12-16-2003, 06:55 AM
Brodziak is the only real surprise IMO.

If White is too injured to play and will hurt the team, then he's got to go, so no real surprise there unfortunately for him.

From all accounts and from the OUA Games, Mike Egener, Corey Perry, JDD and Ward seemed like appropriate cuts.

But Brodziak was fairly impressive and I'm a little baffled why he was cut, IMO he should have made the team over Colliton or Dixon.

Dr. Penguino
12-16-2003, 06:58 AM
why is everyone so surprised that Perry was cut....the kid can't skate. I had the opportunity to watch most of the weekend, and although he has a great set of hands, he had trouble keeping up with his linemates. I don't think offense will be an issue...what I am worried about is our defense (in particular our forwards coming back). Too many of the kids were just out there for a skate, only pushing it one way.

Brock
12-16-2003, 07:03 AM
why is everyone so surprised that Perry was cut....the kid can't skate. I had the opportunity to watch most of the weekend, and although he has a great set of hands, he had trouble keeping up with his linemates. I don't think offense will be an issue...what I am worried about is our defense (in particular our forwards coming back). Too many of the kids were just out there for a skate, only pushing it one way.

Which is probably the reason why Colliton made the team even though his camp was mediocore.

Colliton is a good two way forward and brings a lot of character to the team, things you can't properly grade until the real tournament begins.

Hyped
12-16-2003, 07:05 AM
Time for everyone to get their panties out of the knot they're in and start looking at what a solid team Canada has this year. This team, although young, has depth in every facet of the game. The only thing that may work against this team is their "inexperience", but it's even hard to say that because most have played in international tournaments before. I usually don't like to compare junior teams, but I wasn't too excited about last year's team and they brought home a silver (which I thought was unbelievable going in with the players they had). As far as I'm concerned, this year, the sky is the limit...

looooob
12-16-2003, 07:06 AM
and Brodziak with an ever better performance at camp.

But hey, Durochers has his two QMJHL players in Talbot & Dixon instead of them. Great :shakehead
10 WHLers made the team, which apparently might be the highest total ever

hard to accuse the coach of Q favouritism I would think?

HfxMoose
12-16-2003, 07:11 AM
I'm quite suprised to see Perry get cut and Deslauries as well. I thought both of these guys could provide alot for the team. Although Harding is a great goaltender as well and it was pretty much a toss up between JDD and Harding. The toughest cut to swallow was Ian White for me. It's to bad he's hurt he really could have brought alot of leadership to the team as well as his great offensive abilities. I'm pretty confident with the team we have. I think we can match up easily with any other team in the tournament. So congrats to everyone who made it (espically Crosby, Dixon, and Talbot) and GL in Finland!!!

GO CANADA GO!!!!

speeds
12-16-2003, 07:13 AM
10 WHLers made the team, which apparently might be the highest total ever

hard to accuse the coach of Q favouritism I would think?

depends. Maybe he didn't want it at 11?

gohabsgo2010
12-16-2003, 07:13 AM
Heh. Sad to see Perry go, but I'm happy to have him here to help out the Knights.

I don't know about Talbot and Brent as the 'A's, I think guys like Phaneuf and Stewart would have been better choices. Not a big deal, though.

I like our chances, and my bet is on Phaneuf becoming this year's fan favourite (Fleury doesn't count :p ).

ceber
12-16-2003, 07:13 AM
This is one team that's been damaged by the NHL not releasing players.

Will this generate any Canadian goodwill toward the two oft-maligned teams that _did_ release players?

Bshot
12-16-2003, 07:19 AM
Which is probably the reason why Colliton made the team even though his camp was mediocore.

Colliton is a good two way forward and brings a lot of character to the team, things you can't properly grade until the real tournament begins.

Good point, it seems that most people look for offence when trying to decide the "best" team. However, I remember back to last year with the Under 18 roster and people critizized Colliton for making the team saying he's all defence and they need offence, offence, offence. I think he ended up with 6 points in 7 games and was Canada's main penalty killer.

As for the backup goalie, I don't really think its such a big deal. They'll only get to play one game cause the team is Fleury's team so i really don't see why guys can be upset with Harding making it over JDD, honestly they could've taken anyone of the three and they'd do an alright job. I am really excited bout this team and am pumped about the puck being dropped Dec. 26.

elphy101
12-16-2003, 07:20 AM
10 WHLers made the team, which apparently might be the highest total ever

hard to accuse the coach of Q favouritism I would think?

And yet the guy that outscores all of them, can't?

Slats432
12-16-2003, 07:21 AM
Will this generate any Canadian goodwill toward the two oft-maligned teams that _did_ release players?

The only thing that Minny gets maligned for is style of play.

(And that is a marginal malignation :D if you ask me. I watched them last night on Centre Ice and came away enjoying their game. Although it looks like if you put enough pressure on their blueline, you can generate some chances...Doan, Langkow, Nagy were really cycling at times...)

But as far as the WJCs go, they are a stellar organization in seeing the benefit of letting the juniors go. Bravo Minny. :bow:

Brock
12-16-2003, 07:31 AM
Good point, it seems that most people look for offence when trying to decide the "best" team. However, I remember back to last year with the Under 18 roster and people critizized Colliton for making the team saying he's all defence and they need offence, offence, offence. I think he ended up with 6 points in 7 games and was Canada's main penalty killer.

As for the backup goalie, I don't really think its such a big deal. They'll only get to play one game cause the team is Fleury's team so i really don't see why guys can be upset with Harding making it over JDD, honestly they could've taken anyone of the three and they'd do an alright job. I am really excited bout this team and am pumped about the puck being dropped Dec. 26.

That is unless Fleury gets injured, but we won't even begin to think about that.

IMO Harding was the right choice. He is the reigning CHL goaltender of the Year and he came into this camp and performed well. He deserved his chance to play against the Ukraine on the 29th. :D

LaLaLaprise
12-16-2003, 07:32 AM
Everyone complains about the last few cuts each year. This is nothing new. Obviously those guys get paid to pick the team, we are not around the players like they are. Maybe Brodziak or Perry werent as willing to play a strickly defensive role as Colliton. None of us know that.

Also Jeff DD and Harding was a toss up. Flip a coin. I still have no confidence in Jeff DD though, i have seen him stink up the Q for too many games in 1.5 years.

Slats432
12-16-2003, 07:43 AM
Everyone complains about the last few cuts each year. This is nothing new. Obviously those guys get paid to pick the team, we are not around the players like they are. Maybe Brodziak or Perry werent as willing to play a strickly defensive role as Colliton. None of us know that.

Also Jeff DD and Harding was a toss up. Flip a coin. I still have no confidence in Jeff DD though, i have seen him stink up the Q for too many games in 1.5 years.

Just the type of guy I want to talk to....

Here is what I know...I look at the stats and I see JDD with some, iffy to say the least GGA and Sv % stats. Then I see him at Oilers camp and he looks like a seasoned veteran, on par with guys like Salo and Conklin.

I hear many people including writers and of course Oilers fans say "Well he is a good goalie on a bad team." Then I wonder what the truth is.

So what is it. Is he a top prospect? Is he the only goalie in the Oilers system so they have to pump him up? Do some people just want to overlook his deficiencies?

LaLaLaprise
12-16-2003, 07:48 AM
Just the type of guy I want to talk to....

Here is what I know...I look at the stats and I see JDD with some, iffy to say the least GGA and Sv % stats. Then I see him at Oilers camp and he looks like a seasoned veteran, on par with guys like Salo and Conklin.

I hear many people including writers and of course Oilers fans say "Well he is a good goalie on a bad team." Then I wonder what the truth is.

So what is it. Is he a top prospect? Is he the only goalie in the Oilers system so they have to pump him up? Do some people just want to overlook his deficiencies?

Thats a tough question. I was never a Jeff DD fan when he was 17, i thought he was hyped up far too much only because of his big size. He never really stood out in the Q. There are about 10 others goalies in the Q i would rather have on my team. That being said, whenever he goes to Pro camps or Canada camps he seems to play well. It is odd to say the least.

It also doesnt help that every time he plays in Halifax he seems to get lit up. He allowed a goal from half this year.

I wouldnt have any confidence in him, if he was forced into a game for Canada because he has never really impressed me.

That being said the Oilers seem to be high on him.

surixon
12-16-2003, 07:56 AM
Glad to see that Meech made it. On the side note to be fair I don't really see where Brodziak sp would of fit in on any lines as he seemed to be jumping all over the place in intersquad games. But I do agree he played well enough to make the team ahead of some of the defencive specialists. Perry Imo didn't have a great camp, but still managed to put up some points. I said it before and I will say it again we really don't have much fire power up front this year. We took too many grinders and defencive specialists. I wish we would have gone with some more pure skill guys like Locke, Perry etc..

LaLaLaprise
12-16-2003, 08:30 AM
Canada is going to try and win 1-0, 2-1 games.

We have a pretty mobile young D plus MAF and a few 2 way guys up front. I think Canada realized that we probably wont win the Gold this year so they went all out with 18 year olds.

Look out next year though.

I think almost the entire team can come back.

All Star United
12-16-2003, 08:33 AM
How do you think the line combos will end up?

Ticallion961
12-16-2003, 08:33 AM
Heh. Sad to see Perry go, but I'm happy to have him here to help out the Knights.

I don't know about Talbot and Brent as the 'A's, I think guys like Phaneuf and Stewart would have been better choices. Not a big deal, though.

I like our chances, and my bet is on Phaneuf becoming this year's fan favourite (Fleury doesn't count :p ).

I think a lot of the players could have been good choices for the A's, in regards to Talbot, he's a great leader for the Olympic, plays hard and gritty, good skater, kills penatlies and can play on the PP...a solid all around player that is a leader on Gatineau, as for Brent...i don't know, but i'm sure he has similar credentials

CharlieGirl
12-16-2003, 08:38 AM
Canada is going to try and win 1-0, 2-1 games.

When you look at the last 3 games Canada played last year, the scores were very close (3-2 loss to Russia, 3-2 win vs US, 5-3 win vs Finland) -not a bad tactic to focus on those types of games!

Kugel
12-16-2003, 08:43 AM
i thought harding was the second best goalie there. as for brodizak he shoulda made iit over colliton. as for perry, he look very bad. he wasnt very fast or strong on the puck, i was very disappointed with him, im glad he was cut. i agree with the D picks, egner wasnt good. talbot and dixion played well.

Campino
12-16-2003, 09:10 AM
This team sucks compared to previous years. We will be lucky to finish in the top 5 with this squad. There are far better players availble that weren't even invited to camp. Whoever picks these players screws over the QMJHL every year. Its like they don't want fast skaters that can put the puck in the net. Normally when you play on big ice its an advatange to have quicker guys. I have no problem keeping the big defense men from the WHL on the blueline. But in tournament like these you need players that can score goals and win games. When your so solid defensively, you don`t have to worry so much about the forwards and you can let them score. Having 18 players from the WHL invited, and 9 from the Q is just retarded. They didn't even take the top 9 players in the QMJHL anyone, theres lots of talent missing from team canada this year, that should be on the team. Just cuz most of them are french doesn`t mean they don`t deserve to represent thier country. Im english, and I don`t care much for most french people, but they still deserve to be on the team.

Brock
12-16-2003, 09:14 AM
This team sucks compared to previous years. We will be lucky to finish in the top 5 with this squad. There are far better players availble that weren't even invited to camp. Whoever picks these players screws over the QMJHL every year. Its like they don't want fast skaters that can put the puck in the net. Normally when you play on big ice its an advatange to have quicker guys. I have no problem keeping the big defense men from the WHL on the blueline. But in tournament like these you need players that can score goals and win games. When your so solid defensively, you don`t have to worry so much about the forwards and you can let them score. Having 18 players from the WHL invited, and 9 from the Q is just retarded. They didn't even take the top 9 players in the QMJHL anyone, theres lots of talent missing from team canada this year, that should be on the team. Just cuz most of them are french doesn`t mean they don`t deserve to represent thier country. Im english, and I don`t care much for most french people, but they still deserve to be on the team.

Your whole argument is thrown out the window because the head coach is from the QMJHL.

canucksfan
12-16-2003, 09:18 AM
For the most part I agree with the cuts. Ward was an obvious cut and same was Deslauries. Harding out performed both of them and he deserved the backup spot.

As for the defence, I would have liked it to see Ian White there but he still hadn't played a game so taking him would have been a huge gamble. I also think that Egener was an obvious cut.

The forwards I thought were hard to cut. I thought Perry was going to be a lock to make this team but he didn't play well in both of the OUA games. Brodziak I dont agree with because he had a solid camp. I would have taken him instead of Dixon.

Teezax
12-16-2003, 09:19 AM
I wouldn't worry so much about the team fellas, they'll be fine. Have we forgotten that Fleury is our goaltender?? Canadians are proud players, they will never go down without a fight, and i truly believe that if they come to play, every game, we have as good a shot as anyone in the tournament. Don't sell them short, remember it's Canada we're talking about. :bow: By the way has anyone gotten tickets for the World Championship games at the Bell Centre VS USA and Czech Republic, i hear you haver to buy oth games in a packaged deal? A buddy of mine got some tickets for both games, I'm just hoping they didn't sell out. Would love to see our superstars play in Montreal!

Pedrostallion
12-16-2003, 09:23 AM
On previous threads not one person that posted picked Dawes to make this team. You saw what he can bring over the last 2 televised games, offensive chances seem to follow the little guy everywhere. Some may be a bit busy eating their crow to respond but what do you think of him now? I see him on the top two lines with two bigger guys - seemed to have pretty good chemistry with Stewart and Richards.

For fun....(and i may be out to lunch) my lines are:

Getzlaf Carter Burns
Stewart Richards Dawes
Tambellini Crosby Brent
Colliton Paille Talbot

Dixon

Phaneuf Meech
Coburn Seabrook
Gorges Belle

Klein

Fleury
Harding

surixon
12-16-2003, 09:28 AM
How do you think the line combos will end up?
Getzlaf-Carter-Burns
Paille-Crosby-Tambellini
Stewert-Richards-Brent
Dawes-Talbot-Colliton

The only place on this lineup that I could see Brodziak making it is in Collitons spot. But there really is no way that he can take a spot of any of the left wings and I think that is where he played in the games vs the OuHA.

canucksfan
12-16-2003, 09:34 AM
Dawes played extremely well. I thought he had a chance to make it but would get cut. However, he deserves to be on the team. He played great both games. Here are my lines

Dawes Carter Stewart
Getzlaf Richards Burns
Paille Talbot Brent
Dixon Crosby Tambellini
Colliton

Colliton is the perfect guy to be the 13th forward he can play any position and he's a great pentaly killer.

My defence

Phaneuf Klein
Coburn Belle
Meech Seabrook
Gorges
There are six defencemen from the WHL and that is a record. The previous record was five.


Goalies
Fleury
Harding

Alex Kovalev
12-16-2003, 09:44 AM
You guys are also forgetting that too many offensive weapons is not going to help out on defense. Guys like Talbot, Brent, Dixon, Colliton will probably be our 2-way, defensive guys. Perry is a good player, but to me, from what I saw, seemed very easy to knock off the puck. Though I would have liked him to have made the team, along with Fehr, but the team needs to be balanced, and right now it looks like a solid squad.

Big McLargehuge
12-16-2003, 09:47 AM
3 Pens...me likey :)

LaLaLaprise
12-16-2003, 09:48 AM
The lines i keep hearing are:

Stewart/Richards/Dawes
Getzlaf/Carter/Burns
Paille/Talbot/Brent
Dixon/Crosby/Tambellini
Colliton

Meech/Phaneuf
Coburn/Seabrook
Belle/Klein
Gorges

ZombieMatt
12-16-2003, 09:59 AM
*sigh*

Every year this team is named, and every year people on these boards whine and complain about politics, not enough talent, they should have taken this player over that player...blah blah blah. And every year...the team does just fine. The reality of a single elimination tournament is that any of six teams can win it, and a huge component of it is based on synnergy, streakiness, and good fortune.

This is a very strong team. We have the best goaltender in the tournament, and I don't believe there can be an argument about that. Fleury has been facing the BEST players in the world, while everyone else has been facing kids or guys not good enough to make the NHL.

Our defence, as usual, will be very good. Every body keeps talking about Phaneuf being the anchor of this blueline, and it seems like we're all forgetting about Coburn, who was the best d-man available in this past draft to me, and someone who I feel sees the ice better than Phaneuf, which will be a big help on the ice surface.

Our forwards are not a bunch of guys with stone hands. Most of these guys are very capable of burying the puck into the back of the net. We do have some amazingly skilled players, and our forwards are very strong players. I can't imagine ANY defenceman is going to be able to do much about a monster like Anthony Stewart, for instance. Personally i think Stewart will play a massive role for us. He's a ridiculously strong guy built like a tank, who is very mobile, and I think that he could be the ultimate shut down man against Ovechkin, but that's just me.

Nigel Dawes is a nice player to find that not many know about. He has some wicked moves, and is extremely confident with the puck. He's willing to try something new, and can make defenders look foolish. He's small, but fast, and should excel on the ice surface.

Harding, Ward, or JDD....who cares? They're never going to see the ice.

I don't know, it just seems to me that many people are counting this team out before the tournament even begins. There are other good teams in the tournament for sure, but I'm not certain there is a team that has been selected with roles so much in mind.

That's just my two cents.

moosefan
12-16-2003, 10:15 AM
here here. i think perry should of made it over one of these guys.

Thing is with Talbot you have a guy who is good at bringing a team together outside the rink, he likes to crack jokes, does funny things, is a great on ice leader, great leader in the dressing room, makes tough situation a little easier on the guys, he is a very very valuble asset. Also Stephen Dixon is very underrated by most, I though he would go in the 2nd to 3rd round last year, he will prove his worth to everyone.

Mess
12-16-2003, 10:17 AM
Just a few points I would like to add for discussion..

What ends up surprising me a little each year is that everyone will agree that this is mainly a tourney where 19 year olds could/should make the biggest impact and the few younger players, are either exceptional and are brought along for the experience..

This year Team Canada has numerous 18 year olds, rather than following last years trend of mainly 19 year olds.. and they cut some pretty fine players like Staal and Horton to make that point last year and we all know the ending...Other than last tourney being in Canada, where the selection comittee felt they need a strong team, ...

Why the Philosophy change this year??
and
How can a player be good enough to play in the NHL at 18/19 and not be good enough to be the best among piers his own age for a Junior Tourney???

and on that same wave length ...This is the best under 20 kids from each country and does not have anything to do with how they project as prospects for the NHL, other than the exception I gave above where they actually are...Case in point ..Like this year Corey Perry and Jeremy Williams ... both these kids are leading the OHL and WHL in scoring...proving they are the best at the junior level than their piers at the same age range.. That holds true last year as well in regards to Corey Locke and Matt Foy....

Then why are these players not also good enough to compete against 19 & 18 year olds from other countries, particularly if Canada is considered a Strong Hockey Nation????

Third in a short tourney ...it may be all about CHEMISTRY and FAMILIARITY.... and what better example could you use than Locke and Foy last year as a pair you would take straight from their Junior team to the Tourney...Similar again this year lets say with Tyler Redenbach and Jeremy Williams who are 1 & 2 in the WHL and team mates.. on top of that ...the selection committee had a chance to view them against the Russians in the ReMAX Challenge and combined with Getzlaf was one of the strongest/dominant lines in that tourney as far as the WHL goes..You could use similar Chemistry arguments from the other two leagues as well....

So if Chemistry is so important ...why exclude the obvious ones???

I would interested to hear your responses..

ZombieMatt
12-16-2003, 10:26 AM
That's a really interesting question that you raise, Messenger, and I'm not really certain I have an answer.

Perhaps they were looking for styes that traditionally fit together? Or the players they were after were to be selected to play a certain role? I'm really not certain. It definitely is an interesting point.

elphy101
12-16-2003, 10:33 AM
Similar again this year lets say with Tyler Redenbach and Jeremy Williams who are 1 & 2 in the WHL and team mates.. on top of that ...the selection committee had a chance to view them against the Russians in the ReMAX Challenge and combined with Getzlaf was one of the strongest/dominant lines in that tourney as far as the WHL goes..You could use similar Chemistry arguments from the other two leagues as well....

Yep that's fair. One comment on that though. Kyle Brodziak was leading the WHL in scoring before he left for the WJ tryouts. It is weird that even though the WHL sent 10 players to the tournament. The top 3 scorers in the league don't get to go.

Mess
12-16-2003, 10:48 AM
Yep that's fair. One comment on that though. Kyle Brodziak was leading the WHL in scoring before he left for the WJ tryouts. It is weird that even though the WHL sent 10 players to the tournament. The top 3 scorers in the league don't get to go.

It was actually Tomas Fleischmann that was leading the league at the time the Selection camp was named and Williams and Brodziak.. right behind..

but if you look at the WHL as of today..

http://www.whl.ca/stats/statdisplay.php?type=top_scorers&id=0&leagueId=26

The only Team Canada representative is # 20 Nigel Dawes..and other than a few NON North Americans in the list ... Look at all the scorers many of which did not even get a after thought never mind an invite..

And little 5'8" Dawes is very fortunate because with the committee so fosused on size that the little guy must have snuck under the raider in this one.. other wise vitually the entire WHL would have been ignored at FORWARDS as we all know all about the 1st round drafted Dman that made team Canada for the Dub, and rightfully so..

That is what My point was ...in the previous post... Wouldn't the top players in each CHL league get the strongest consideration to represent Canada as a whole in a tourney where they prove day in and day out that they can compete and produce regardless of Height, Weight, skating etc???..

Each player must have something going for them that allows them to be successful at this level...and my point isn't about a certain CHL league in particular just the point as a whole..

Johnny
12-16-2003, 11:00 AM
On previous threads not one person that posted picked Dawes to make this team.


That is not true, dont like to toot my own horn or anything but I had him making my team on a thread started a couple months ago. http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?threadid=19730

Mess
12-16-2003, 11:19 AM
The thing is the CHL and WJHC are different levels of skill. You go from playing the best players in your age group from a few provinces and the odd out of country player to the best players from around the world.

Poor skating and lazy defensive play might not be a major problem in a Hull vs. Halifax game, but it is all to important on the big ice against quick Europeans. Top scorer doesn't always mean top player.

Point taken ...but you can't paint entire groups of players with the same brush... that might be true for a few here and there..

Then explain the Staal , Horton cuts from last year ....again not good enough to represent Canada but can play regularly in the NHL?? Poor skating and lazy defensive play could not have been there reason...

Vranattack
12-16-2003, 12:10 PM
I love the moaning becasue Dixon made it. The guy is fast which the team needs.

Dixon - Crosby - Tambellini

Pedrostallion
12-16-2003, 01:19 PM
That is not true, dont like to toot my own horn or anything but I had him making my team on a thread started a couple months ago. http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?threadid=19730


Sorry Johnny - didn't remember you doing that.....let me replace "not one person" with "the vast majority of people" to be more accurate.

Still, good to see the little guy proving people wrong.

PEli*
12-16-2003, 01:20 PM
and Brodziak with an ever better performance at camp.

But hey, Durochers has his two QMJHL players in Talbot & Dixon instead of them. Great :shakehead

Biased, much? Talbot is the best captain in the Q, has a good amount of talent and had a solid camp. Dixon had a great camp too. I'm sure you know more about coaching than Durochers but give the guy the benefit of the doubt this time, eh? When you coach next year, you can pick the team.

Don't take credit from two guys that had great camps because one of your favorite players didn't make the team. Making Canada's WJC team is a tough thing to do. If any of my favorite CHLers were at camp alone, I'd be happy.

Johnny
12-16-2003, 02:13 PM
Sorry Johnny - didn't remember you doing that.....let me replace "not one person" with "the vast majority of people" to be more accurate.

Still, good to see the little guy proving people wrong.

No need to apologize, and could not agree more that it is nice to see him prove people wrong, hopefully he continues to do so.

Doomsday Device
12-16-2003, 03:18 PM
While people are complaining about the lack of talent, this year's team has 12 already drafted first rounders (top 30 picks), the second most of any Canadian world junior team in history. Only the 1995 team, which got NHL players who were locked out, had more first rounders. So I think this talk of lack of talent isn't exactly true.

Sticky*
12-16-2003, 03:33 PM
On previous threads not one person that posted picked Dawes to make this team. You saw what he can bring over the last 2 televised games, offensive chances seem to follow the little guy everywhere. Some may be a bit busy eating their crow to respond but what do you think of him now? I see him on the top two lines with two bigger guys - seemed to have pretty good chemistry with Stewart and Richards.

For fun....(and i may be out to lunch) my lines are:

Getzlaf Carter Burns
Stewart Richards Dawes
Tambellini Crosby Brent
Colliton Paille Talbot

Dixon

Phaneuf Meech
Coburn Seabrook
Gorges Belle

Klein

Fleury
Harding


I don't know if you are a 'dub fan, and are a homer, but I can promise you that Klein will not be the 7th D. HE is much better than Meech or Gorges.

Mess
12-16-2003, 04:16 PM
While people are complaining about the lack of talent, this year's team has 12 already drafted first rounders (top 30 picks), the second most of any Canadian world junior team in history. Only the 1995 team, which got NHL players who were locked out, had more first rounders. So I think this talk of lack of talent isn't exactly true.

and nearly half of the 12 are Dmen and goaltenders..

V for Voodoo
12-16-2003, 05:07 PM
Biased, much? Talbot is the best captain in the Q, has a good amount of talent and had a solid camp. Dixon had a great camp too. I'm sure you know more about coaching than Durochers but give the guy the benefit of the doubt this time, eh? When you coach next year, you can pick the team.

Don't take credit from two guys that had great camps because one of your favorite players didn't make the team. Making Canada's WJC team is a tough thing to do. If any of my favorite CHLers were at camp alone, I'd be happy.

Let's not throw around accusations of bias when you're defending two players from the Q, Please.

Durochers is familiar with guys like Dixon and Talbot because they play in the Q, that much is fairly obvious. Brodziak is a player who has received very little exposure and probably was one of the lesser known players at camp, and he suffered because of it despite a performance that was worthy of making the team ahead of several players (including the two i targeted). I think it was a poor decision made based on familiarity, and I did not say it was a conspiracy to select Q players, it was simply a poor decision. I'll live with it, I don't have to agree with it. Fair enough?

Pedrostallion
12-16-2003, 05:29 PM
I don't know if you are a 'dub fan, and are a homer, but I can promise you that Klein will not be the 7th D. HE is much better than Meech or Gorges.

And I don't know if you actually read my post...... "for fun (and I may be out to lunch here)"

Evidently in your mind I'm out to lunch - that's cool with me. I didn't put too much thought into it really, more just jotted names down...for fun.

You must do well with air miles getting to be so familiar with Meech (Red Deer), Gorges (Kelowna) and Klein (Guelph) to say who is the best of the three. As for myself, it's hard for me to say that Klein is that much better than Meech or Gorges because I never have seen him play. From what I understand he brings a different type of game than the other two. If team Canada wants to have Klein in the line up more than one of the other guys then so be it. By the way, am a dub fan but I really could care less who does the job as long as it's done right and to the best of one's ability.

AEKaki
12-16-2003, 05:33 PM
and Brodziak with an ever better performance at camp.

But hey, Durochers has his two QMJHL players in Talbot & Dixon instead of them. Great :shakehead


are you on crack?
Talbot was VERY impressive at camp.
Dixon outplayed Perry as well.
I'm sorry if you think that Perry is god, but they did deserve it more then him. Some others didn't deserve it more then Perry though.

V for Voodoo
12-16-2003, 05:36 PM
are you on crack?
.
Are you 12 years old? How about addressing people normally.


Talbot was VERY impressive at camp.
Dixon outplayed Perry as well.
I'm sorry if you think that Perry is god, but they did deserve it more then him. Some others didn't deserve it more then Perry though.
'I think Perry is god'. Forget my question above, it is confirmed.

My post was specifically about Brodziak who I would argue had a better camp of the three.
If you read the thread, it's been discussed. I will live with the decision just fine, doesn't mean i agree with it.

Doomsday Device
12-16-2003, 05:42 PM
and nearly half of the 12 are Dmen and goaltenders..

Actually 7 of the 12 are forwards, and that's the second most already drafted 1st round forward selections behind 1995 as well.

As a clarification, by "already drafted" I mean players who were drafted previous to playing at the tournament.

Jag68Sid87
12-16-2003, 06:27 PM
If Mario Lemieux can get cut from the Canadian WJC team, me thinks Kyle Brodziak can get cut from the Canadian WJC team.

They can't take everybody.

John Agar
12-16-2003, 07:42 PM
ahead of Brodziak. The defensive specialist role re: Coliton doesn't wash with me as Brodziak is an extremely well balanced player, but with hands. We need to bring puck sense and bury the puck in the net. I don't want to see a bunch of role players skate around like ice-picks, with everyone lauding how hard they work. What matters is the scoreboard in the end. Remember Canada used role players in the Olympics and lost the previous time; they didn't make that mistake again as Gretzky went with skill, skill and more skill with puck sense.

I believe Coliton made it because he was on the under 18 team and they went with their "program" guys; team chemistry and all. Brodziak deserves to be there as his progress and stats are no fluke.

This is not a disaster, just a mis-deed on the integrity of the camp competition. Why not just do what the U.S. does then; though I don't agree with their system; hail to the spirit of real competition.

Jacob
12-16-2003, 09:32 PM
I'm glad the Penguins are well represented.

Kugel
12-16-2003, 09:47 PM
Point taken ...but you can't paint entire groups of players with the same brush... that might be true for a few here and there..

Then explain the Staal , Horton cuts from last year ....again not good enough to represent Canada but can play regularly in the NHL?? Poor skating and lazy defensive play could not have been there reason...

i think it was politics or somethign cause horton only got invited because of an injury. that is stupid horton was great and staal shoulda been on that team. i tihnk team canada should do what the great one did in the oylmpics, take the best players. they can adapt. it seemed to work for him. y not take horton as a checker, maybe this year he coulda got loaned to us.

canucksfan
12-16-2003, 09:59 PM
ahead of Brodziak. The defensive specialist role re: Coliton doesn't wash with me as Brodziak is an extremely well balanced player, but with hands. We need to bring puck sense and bury the puck in the net. I don't want to see a bunch of role players skate around like ice-picks, with everyone lauding how hard they work. What matters is the scoreboard in the end. Remember Canada used role players in the Olympics and lost the previous time; they didn't make that mistake again as Gretzky went with skill, skill and more skill with puck sense.

I believe Coliton made it because he was on the under 18 team and they went with their "program" guys; team chemistry and all. Brodziak deserves to be there as his progress and stats are no fluke.

This is not a disaster, just a mis-deed on the integrity of the camp competition. Why not just do what the U.S. does then; though I don't agree with their system; hail to the spirit of real competition.
Colliton made it ahead of Brodziak because he's a better defensive player than Brodziak and he's better suited for the role as the 13th forward. He can play all of the forward positions something Brodaizk cant do.

Team Canada does not have all role players. Their fourth most likely will be Dixon Crosby and Tambellini. This will be the best fourth line in the tournament. Crosby and Tambellini are two players that can bury the puck. Dixon is a good 2 way player. The only role players that are on the team are Paille, Colliton and Brent. When you pick a team like this you need a checking line.

As far as the Olympics is concerned the team had Peca and Nieuwendyk on the team. They could have picked two more skilled players but they chose to role players because you need to have a shut down line in a tournament like the Olympics and World Juniors.

Crosbyfan
12-16-2003, 10:39 PM
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by The Messenger
and nearly half of the 12 are Dmen and goaltenders..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually 7 of the 12 are forwards, and that's the second most already drafted 1st round forward selections behind 1995 as well.
__________________________________________________ ___________



Personally I think 5 out of 12 (12-7=5) is as close to "nearly half" as you can get without it being half or chopping people up!

BCCHL inactive
12-16-2003, 11:11 PM
How would you guys compare this team to Canada's teams previous years?

I must admit that there are quite a few names there that I am unfamiliar with (Josh Gorges, Brent Burns, Tim Brent, Jeremy Colliton, Nigel Dawes, Stephen Dixon).
Is this year's team a bit weaker "on the paper" than in previous years or does it hold up pretty good?
thanks

I can say something on the following...

Josh Gorges: Captain of the 2004 Memorial Cup host Kelowna Rockets. An excellent well-rounded defenceman who is both great in his own end while contributing offensively. There is not much that he cannot do. An excellent choice for Team Canada.

Brent Burns: Minnesota Wild - NHL ...enough said.

Nigel Dawes: He has an amazing goal-scoring talent. It seems that whatever he puts towards the net goes in. Put that together with a good defensive game, and you have a complete forward who possesses amazing puck skills.

The others play in the OHL and QMJHL, so I don't know much about them.


politics yet again :rant:
the politics of 2 French Canadian goalies happened again this year too i hope it blows up in their face like last year

Huh? I don't understand. Are you saying politics cost Jeff Drouin-Deslauriers the backup spot......or did you read the report wrong and think that there are 2 French-Canadian goaltenders on this team due to politics?

Your wording is very confusing.


Whoever picks these players screws over the QMJHL every year. Its like they don't want fast skaters that can put the puck in the net.

Give me a break. These fast skaters who can score in the Q are not chosen because they can't play a lick's worth of defence, and will likely get schooled at the international level. And it does not matter how big and solid the defencemen are...without help from the forwards, a team will not win games.

Team Canada has plenty of offence on this year's squad. Just because they aren't Quebecois doesn't mean they can't put points on the board.

I would much rather have scoring forwards who can play some defence as well, than to employ scoring forwards who are afraid to cross their own blue line simply because they play in a high-scoring league.



Getzlaf Carter Burns
Stewart Richards Dawes
Tambellini Crosby Brent
Colliton Paille Talbot


Paillé, the team captain and only returning forward, will not be on the fourth line.



Then explain the Staal , Horton cuts from last year ....again not good enough to represent Canada but can play regularly in the NHL??

When they were cut from Team Canada, they were not good enough to play in the NHL. A year later, they were. Players do improve from one year to the next....it's only common sense.

Your argument for Staal and Horton is moot because of the year's difference between them getting cut from the U20 national team and making the NHL.

Damien
12-17-2003, 12:01 AM
Just thought I'd throw in my lines.

Tambellini-Crosby-Dawes
Carter-Richards-Burns
Brent-Getzlaf-Stewart
Talbot-Paille-Colliton
Dixon


Phaneuf-Seabrook
Coburn-Belle
Klein-Gorges
Meech



Fleury
Harding

Mess
12-17-2003, 12:04 AM
When they were cut from Team Canada, they were not good enough to play in the NHL. A year later, they were. Players do improve from one year to the next....it's only common sense.

Your argument for Staal and Horton is moot because of the year's difference between them getting cut from the U20 national team and making the NHL.

With all due respect that is utter crap...

EVERYONE even posters on here knew that Staal and Horton would be high picks in the June draft... So they did not come out of no where like you are suggesting as all CBS and Redline rankings had them both top 10 picks...with some even having Staal #1 possibility..

Second your point about a year difference is well exaggerated... The WJC is in late December early January...and the CHL season is just a few months longer than that before the playoffs begin, where not all players because their teams are eliminated play... Then there is at least 4 months on no CHL hockey over the summer months till training camps start in September .. In actuality it is less than 6 months for the time of the tourney to the June 22 draft...

So your a lot can change over a year is a fairy tail in that there is more time off then on during this time....and are you saying that this is the time this kids suddenly developed over the summer, had growth spurts and grew 5 to 8 inches, put on 40 pounds of muscle and became better skaters, stick handlers etc... Just in time for the June draft where they came out of nowhere to become high draft picks and then go on to become NHL regulars...

That can't be what you are saying is it... If it is..then it contradicts the point that I also made that last year very few 18 year olds made the team and this year the opposite as lots of 18 and younger players, ignoring the 19 year olds that had the extra year of experience that you are stressing....

Mess
12-17-2003, 12:20 AM
Actually 7 of the 12 are forwards, and that's the second most already drafted 1st round forward selections behind 1995 as well.

As a clarification, by "already drafted" I mean players who were drafted previous to playing at the tournament.

There is no pleasing some people ...If it would have been 6 as you said then it would be half so that would make 5 of 12 nearly 1/2.. by my way of thinking as well..

and could it be that during many tourney's your "already drafted " stat is meaningless because when the team takes 18 year olds and younger players ...they are not eligible to be drafted untill June ...6 months after the Tourney like MA Fleury was, or Staal and Horton could have been had they not been cut....depending on when there birthday is...

So all you are saying is that some times when Team Canada is represented by older or returning players that the number drafted could go up, and also not all years are strong draft years and often the 1st round of the entry draft consists of large portions or Euro players that are not eligible to play for CANADA...

John Agar
12-17-2003, 03:37 AM
Colliton made it ahead of Brodziak because he's a better defensive player than Brodziak and he's better suited for the role as the 13th forward. He can play all of the forward positions something Brodaizk cant do.

Team Canada does not have all role players. Their fourth most likely will be Dixon Crosby and Tambellini. This will be the best fourth line in the tournament. Crosby and Tambellini are two players that can bury the puck. Dixon is a good 2 way player. The only role players that are on the team are Paille, Colliton and Brent. When you pick a team like this you need a checking line.

As far as the Olympics is concerned the team had Peca and Nieuwendyk on the team. They could have picked two more skilled players but they chose to role players because you need to have a shut down line in a tournament like the Olympics and World Juniors.

Brodziak is a well balanced player - Colliton is overated overall. Brodziak would have done just as well in a checking line role; but with hands.

And uh....Nieuwendyk...is not a role player; he is a well balanced player (two-way), with hands. Please check the NHL career statistics re: Joe Nieuwendyk = scorer;with a plus rating his whole career.

BCCHL inactive
12-17-2003, 03:44 AM
So your a lot can change over a year is a fairy tail in that there is more time off then on during this time....and are you saying that this is the time this kids suddenly developed over the summer, had growth spurts and grew 5 to 8 inches, put on 40 pounds of muscle and became better skaters, stick handlers etc... Just in time for the June draft where they came out of nowhere to become high draft picks and then go on to become NHL regulars...

Junior hockey players of the stature of what Staal and Horton were (highly touted draft picks) don't take the summer off. They go to different cities to work with different trainers, they go to CSB testing, which has a lot to do with where they go in the draft, they skate on a regular basis......they don't sit around the phones at home eating donuts like one Dustin Byfuglien.

I'm not saying that Staal and Horton got all their skill over the one summer....but if they didn't work their ***** off to put a little more muscle on, hone their skills on a regular basis, etc...after their junior season ended....they wouldn't have gone as high as they did in the draft.

They were NHL-ready after their first NHL training camps said so.....they were not NHL-ready at the 2003 Canadian U20 selection camp.



That can't be what you are saying is it... If it is..then it contradicts the point that I also made that last year very few 18 year olds made the team and this year the opposite as lots of 18 and younger players, ignoring the 19 year olds that had the extra year of experience that you are stressing....

Those 19 year-olds with the extra experience were the returnees who had a year of World U20 Championship experience....this year, there were only three of them, and one is gone with an injury. The best players period made the team this year. Next year, these 18 year-olds from this team will get every opportunity over an 18 year-old with no experience....no matter when CSB says they will get drafted.

PEli*
12-17-2003, 03:46 AM
Let's not throw around accusations of bias when you're defending two players from the Q, Please.

Durochers is familiar with guys like Dixon and Talbot because they play in the Q, that much is fairly obvious. Brodziak is a player who has received very little exposure and probably was one of the lesser known players at camp, and he suffered because of it despite a performance that was worthy of making the team ahead of several players (including the two i targeted). I think it was a poor decision made based on familiarity, and I did not say it was a conspiracy to select Q players, it was simply a poor decision. I'll live with it, I don't have to agree with it. Fair enough?

Sorry for going off.

Defending these two guys is fair. Whether they're Q players or not, what you said about Derochers is unfair. If Stan Butler was coaching and the two guys that made it were W players and somebody said something like you said, I'd still feel the same way.

There are always poor or questionable decisions made about players making the team. That's just a part of the WJC camp. There are so many deserving players and only so many roster spots. Was I happy when Pascal LeClaire was passed up for Alex Auld one year? No. I, like you, lived with it but didn't agree with it.

Doomsday Device
12-17-2003, 08:39 AM
There is no pleasing some people ...If it would have been 6 as you said then it would be half so that would make 5 of 12 nearly 1/2.. by my way of thinking as well..

and could it be that during many tourney's your "already drafted " stat is meaningless because when the team takes 18 year olds and younger players ...they are not eligible to be drafted untill June ...6 months after the Tourney like MA Fleury was, or Staal and Horton could have been had they not been cut....depending on when there birthday is...

So all you are saying is that some times when Team Canada is represented by older or returning players that the number drafted could go up, and also not all years are strong draft years and often the 1st round of the entry draft consists of large portions or Euro players that are not eligible to play for CANADA...

I pointed out that there were 7 forwards because in saying half were defenceman it seemed that you were implying that they were lacking at the forward position, which they aren't.

I also realize that there are multiple factors that play into the validity of the stat, including the fact that some guys are drafted largely on potential without much production. But, considering that last years draft year was considered to be extremely strong and 11 of these 12 players were drafted last year, this should indicate a fairly high talent level.

Anyways, I threw this stat out mostly for interest's sake not as a be all or end all.

Mess
12-17-2003, 09:48 AM
Junior hockey players of the stature of what Staal and Horton were (highly touted draft picks) don't take the summer off. They go to different cities to work with different trainers, they go to CSB testing, which has a lot to do with where they go in the draft, they skate on a regular basis......they don't sit around the phones at home eating donuts like one Dustin Byfuglien.

I'm not saying that Staal and Horton got all their skill over the one summer....but if they didn't work their ***** off to put a little more muscle on, hone their skills on a regular basis, etc...after their junior season ended....they wouldn't have gone as high as they did in the draft.

They were NHL-ready after their first NHL training camps said so.....they were not NHL-ready at the 2003 Canadian U20 selection camp..

Sure I am not disagreeing ..that they worked on improving themselves for the NHL...but most of that happened after they where drafted in June, not before... between the CHL playoffs ending and the June entry draft is not alot of time that they suddenly got drafted higher than they would have otherwise... They went 2 & 3 in the draft afterall..

but the point was they where cut from the WJC team with players their equals that where projected as high first round picks..The team chose smaller less physical players like Wellwood etc over them...

I just think its a no brainer and players like Staal, Horton, Coburn should have made the CANADA team... other countries simply select the team..Canada has a tryout camp and then regardless of their performance over their whole CHL career ...they base the selection on a pair of intra squad games and 2 UOA exhibition games... If a Junior star player has a bad couple of days he is cut from the team...We are lucky that MA Fleury had a good couple of days otherwise last year top 3 drafted players could have been cut, and PM Bouchard didn't have a good selection camp last year, but they just couldn't cut a player and send him back to the NHL...and that to me is why I am questioning the selection committee, when even enthusiastic posters on HF would have had all 3 (Staal, Horton, Coburn) on the team...the only factor to consider was that Horton was recovering from a broken Jaw at the time and really wasn't himself yet...but any other factor should have been irrelevant..IMO

You also mentioned defensive ablilities in an earlier post about Locke..yet Russia takes players like Kovalchuk and we know he has no defense either...

Maybe this is one of the reasons that Canada has not won gold in past years????

moosefan
12-17-2003, 10:10 AM
Sure I am not disagreeing ..that they worked on improving themselves for the NHL...but most of that happened after they where drafted in June, not before... between the CHL playoffs ending and the June entry draft is not alot of time that they suddenly got drafted higher than they would have otherwise... They went 2 & 3 in the draft afterall..

but the point was they where cut from the WJC team with players their equals that where projected as high first round picks..The team chose smaller less physical players like Wellwood etc over them...

I just think its a no brainer and players like Staal, Horton, Coburn should have made the CANADA team... other countries simply select the team..Canada has a tryout camp and then regardless of their performance over their whole CHL career ...they base the selection on a pair of intra squad games and 2 UOA exhibition games... If a Junior star player has a bad couple of days he is cut from the team...We are lucky that MA Fleury had a good couple of days otherwise last year top 3 drafted players could have been cut, and PM Bouchard didn't have a good selection camp last year, but they just couldn't cut a player and send him back to the NHL...and that to me is why I am questioning the selection committee, when even enthusiastic posters on HF would have had all 3 (Staal, Horton, Coburn) on the team...the only factor to consider was that Horton was recovering from a broken Jaw at the time and really wasn't himself yet...but any other factor should have been irrelevant..IMO

You also mentioned defensive ablilities in an earlier post about Locke..yet Russia takes players like Kovalchuk and we know he has no defense either...

Maybe this is one of the reasons that Canada has not won gold in past years????

I agree that Canada should stop bringing all role players over and try bringing their most skilled players. Last year I was at the World Junior and the SUmmer and Winter camps here in Halifax and Eric Staal did nothing but impress and he never made the team, Locke was great in the offensive zone as well but he got cut, Braydon Coburn last year should have made the team by far but he was cut as well. I find Canada does not take the best players, their selections consist of age, two way play and overall strength. Though I do not agree with you saying Horton should have been on the team last year, he was maybe the worst player on the ice in the Winter Camp.

Mess
12-17-2003, 11:53 AM
I agree that Canada should stop bringing all role players over and try bringing their most skilled players. Last year I was at the World Junior and the SUmmer and Winter camps here in Halifax and Eric Staal did nothing but impress and he never made the team, Locke was great in the offensive zone as well but he got cut, Braydon Coburn last year should have made the team by far but he was cut as well. I find Canada does not take the best players, their selections consist of age, two way play and overall strength. Though I do not agree with you saying Horton should have been on the team last year, he was maybe the worst player on the ice in the Winter Camp.

Right thats all I am saying that these role players are not working and they should take skill instead.. Its seems MORONIC to me that HIGHLY Skilled and either CBS ranked or drafted kids by the NHL should be AUTOMATIC's.. No offense intended but Jeremy Colliton types are not going to be the reason should Team Canada win...and CHL players of the year should be there instead...

and in regards to Horton I did qualify my response by saying recovering from an injury and not back to 100 % mentally and physically and therefor if excluded is understandable..

just like this year....Ian White was not healthy and even though the unwritten rule of.... if you played last year you are guaranteed a spot... There are lots of good young dmen to chose from and if he is not healthy then so be it...If they would have cut a more deserving player this year just to make room for White who may infact not even be ready for the tourney I would have been annoyed as well...