All Time Draft 1st Round- Les A's de Quebec @ Montreal Maroons

raleh
05-22-2007, 01:51 PM
Les A's de Quebec

GM: #66
Coach: Arbour

Joliat (A) - Morenz (C) - Mogilny
Stewart - Thornton - Bauer
Pulford - Barry - Madden
Lambert -Ridley - Enzicki
MacLean

Reardon - Quackenbush (A)
Konstantinov - St. Laurent
K. Jonsson - Tinordi
Pulford

Smith
Kerr
Mowers

Montreal Maroons

GM: raleh
Coach: Ted Nolan

Toe Blake (C) - Elmer Lach - Maurice Richard (A)
Kirk Muller (A)- Pierre Turgeon - Reggie Leach
Paul Kariya - Herbie Lewis - Blair Russel
Eddie Shack - Derek Sanderson - Mario Tremblay
Cliff Ronning

Sprague Cleghorn - J.C. Tremblay
Leo Boivin - Terry Harper
Ed Van Impe - George Owen
Brad Maxwell

Gerry Cheevers
Jim Henry
Hughie Lehman

raleh
05-22-2007, 01:59 PM
This is the matchup I had in mind when I selected Herbie Lewis for my third line. The Lewis - Muller - Russel line will be on the ice against Morenz and Joliat whenever possible. We'll use the "party line" against the Thornton line. I also think we'll probably put Boivin and Harper against Thornton to try to contain the physical aspect of that line.

This is the series where we decide whether Cleghorn gets an "A". If he stays out of penalty trouble he'll get it.

John Flyers Fan
05-22-2007, 02:12 PM
I worry about the Maroons 2nd line .... while they can put the puck in the net, it might be the worst defensive line in the ATD.

raleh
05-22-2007, 02:25 PM
Well it's a good thing that they were drafted to put the puck in the net then ;).

I know that line is a liability and have thought about tinkering with the lines, but I like having one freewheeling line. They're definitely high risk, but I honestly think they could be high reward too. They could score very quick goals and take some checking attention away from the punch line.

When they're on the ice I'm willing to exchange chances with any other 2nd line in the draft.

John Flyers Fan
05-22-2007, 02:33 PM
Well it's a good thing that they were drafted to put the puck in the net then ;).

I know that line is a liability and have thought about tinkering with the lines, but I like having one freewheeling line. They're definitely high risk, but I honestly think they could be high reward too. They could score very quick goals and take some checking attention away from the punch line.

When they're on the ice I'm willing to exchange chances with any other 2nd line in the draft.

Taking a look at your line-up, if you get a lead I would move Muller up to center the 2nd line and provide a defensive presence. With Kariya and Leach they'd still put th epuck in the net. Move Sanderson up to the 3rd line.

shawnmullin
05-22-2007, 02:44 PM
It's a tough match up for the Maroons in net because in many cases they could point to Cheevers as a clutch goalie, but in this case Smith is just as if not more clutch AND better in the regular season. Plus a longer and more consistent career.

I absolutely prefer Montreal's first line though. Mogilny stands out of the 6 players there IMO. Inconsistent and at times selfish. I like the 2nd line for Quebec. That's at first glance.... Montreal absolutely can't allow their 2nd line to play either of Quebec's top 2. That match up would be a disaster. Perhaps they should get very limited ES time and stay fresh for the PP because I'm not sure if there is a _good_ match up for them on the As.

Exciting series IMO. I think Montreal's top line could win it for them, but they have obstacles.

raleh
05-22-2007, 02:45 PM
I bet Cheevers and Smith fight by the end of the series.

shawnmullin
05-22-2007, 02:46 PM
I bet Cheevers and Smith fight by the end of the series.

Whose your money on? ;)

Murphy
05-22-2007, 03:32 PM
Money goaltender vs another money goaltender. I've never heard any other goaltenders described as "money" as often of these two.

Joliet vs Blake, Morenz vs Lach, some Montreal legends going head to head.

Richard vs Mogilny......uh oh.......

vancityluongo
05-22-2007, 06:00 PM
I really like Montreal here. The top line is wicked.

kruezer
05-22-2007, 06:05 PM
This series is really too close to call, I am definitely interested to see who is gonna be matching up who.

The first thing that struck me was that I prefer the Maroons D, but Billy Smith is much better than Gerry Cheevers IMO, so it will likely have to come down to forwards, and that is difficult to judge between to say the least.

raleh
05-22-2007, 06:05 PM
Geez...I'm looking at my roster and I'm wondering, what would happen if I dressed Maxwell as a forward? :sarcasm:

#66
05-22-2007, 06:25 PM
Money goaltender vs another money goaltender. I've never heard any other goaltenders described as "money" as often of these two.

Joliet vs Blake, Morenz vs Lach, some Montreal legends going head to head.

Richard vs Mogilny......uh oh.......I'm pretty sure that "Radar" would have the Rocket seeing more of Vlady and Pulford.

Another thing about Mogilny is that he's always produced well when playing with a great (LaLa) or at least a good center like Gomez.

reckoning
05-22-2007, 07:00 PM
How Quebec could win:

- Goaltending. I always felt that Cheevers "money" rep was a little overhyped, but Billy Smith is definitely the **** come playoff time. Huge advantage for the Aces here.

- Speed. The Aces top line may be the fastest in the draft, and the Maroons have some defenceman in Harper and Van Impe who are tough and defensively responsible, but very slow. That matchup could get ugly.

- Coaching/Team Discipline: I love Ted Nolan, but his hockey knowledge and strategies is miles behind Arbour's. The Maroons may have discipline problems as Sprague Cleghorn is always a danger to get carried away and end up with a game misconduct or a suspension. They also have Sanderson and Leach; I hope those two don't decide to drop by a bar on the way to the rink.

How the Maroons could win:

- Maurice Richard: Simply put, he's the best playoff performer in the games history. Managing to get him his two linemates from the Punch line was genius. We can speculate about how a hypothetical line may work, but you can't argue with a proven combination. Also, any laziness from Pierre Turgeon will be quickly fixed with an intense glare from the Rocket in the dressing room.

- Toughness: The Maroons defence is just plain mean. Cleghorn is hell to play against, while Boivin, Harper and Van Impe are all known for dishing out hard checks. They could wear down the smaller players on the Aces as the series goes along.

- Depth. As much as I like the Aces lineup, Jonsson, Ridley and Enzicki seem a notch below ATD calibre. Often a series comes down to the supporting cast, and the Maroons have a slight edge near the bottom of the rosters.

God Bless Canada
05-22-2007, 07:18 PM
Best series of the first round. raleh just scored huge points with the Smokies organization by calling his fourth line the "Party Line," which is the label I gave them in our evaluation. (And with Eddie "DUI King" shack, Derek "Life of the Party" Shack and Mario "Pom Pom" Tremblay, if the shoe fits, wear it).

Goaltending is a saw-off. Two goalies who staked their reputations on the playoffs. If I had to give the edge, I'd say it's Smith, but it's a negligible edge, and neither team will have a goalie who will hurt them.

I think raleh has the best first line in the draft. Period. Punch Line is one of the best ever. And in the playoffs, with Rocket Richard? That makes this team that much more dangerous.

I love the speed and skill of #66's first line, I have concerns about their toughness. I think they can be shut down by Harper and Boivin, especially if Mogilny pulls a disappearing act the moment things get tough.

In the same breath, I have serious concerns about raleh's second line. I think Muller would be a lock to move up, if not for the presence of Cliff Ronning as the 13th forward. I think the selection of Ronning, when raleh already had Turgeon, might be raleh's biggest mistake of the draft.

#66's biggest edge is coaching. Al Arbour is one of the best ever. One of the few to ever outcoach Scotty Bowman. And he's the #66 favourite. Ted Nolan's a good players coach, but he's in over his head here.

Much like the Portland-Vegas series, I'll let the debate between the GMs decide who gets my vote.

Nalyd Psycho
05-22-2007, 07:46 PM
Another thing about Mogilny is that he's always produced well when playing with a great (LaLa) or at least a good center like Gomez.

Actually, AlMo tends to score when his linemates are as quick or quicker than he is, not when they have skill. That said, I wouldn't worry about The Stratford Streak's skating.

raleh
05-22-2007, 11:37 PM
Just a few thoughts and clarifications about my team:

Coaching: I certainly didn't pick Nolan because I thought that he could outcoach guys like Arbour. However, check out who my captain is. He just happens to be one of if not the best coaches in the history of the league. I picked Nolan because he's the kind of coach who will let the players have a huge say in what happens. We'll be using Blake in a lot more situations than merely being the left wing on the best line in the draft. In key situations where the team is down and we need a goal, I want Leach out there with Lach and Richard with Blake calling the shots from the bench. Nolan is one of the few coaches that wouldn't be too proud to let this kind of situation happen. I also think that if he can build a decent relationship with the Rocket and Cleghorn we'll see fewer penalties. The Rocket will respond better to a players' coach than one who rides him and works him up like Irvin or Imlach.

Speaking of not being too proud, now would probably be the time to tinker with the lines. Muller is going to move up and play LW with Turgeon and Leach. He'll add a physical dimension to the line and do the dirty work. He'll also make the line more defensively responsible. Kariya will move down to third line duties, Herbie Lewis will step into the centre role for that line. I hate to do this as it breaks up my favorite combination on my team of Lewis-Muller-Russel, but it evens out the lines a little bit. Selecting Muller and Lewis, two guys who could play LW or C enabled me to do this, and I can't say that I didn't see it coming.

I think that the issues with my team are far less glaring than the ones with Quebec. The size of their first line makes it so that I don't have to use Boivin and Harper to contain them. As Reck pointed out, they're too slow for the job. I plan on using them against the Thornton line, and as far as I'm concerned, they will shut that second line down very effectively. Lewis will be on the ice whenever Morenz is, simple as that, Cleghorn too.
The defence here in Montreal is definitely the best we've ever had. We're going to dress Brad Maxwell for every game, he'll share PP time with Cleghorn and Owen. The gap between these two teams in defence is more lopsided in Montreal's favour than the goaltending is for Quebec. I will admit that Smith is the better goalie, in fact I passed up on Cheevers in order to select Smith in the last draft, but I don't think the difference is huge. Plus the punch line can score on just about anybody.

We don't feel as if we have to play a certain style to win this series. If we have to grind it out, our team is double tough and can muck with the best of them with Muller, Shack, Tremblay, Boivin, Harper, and Van Impe. If you want high scoring games, we have Richard, Lach, Leach, Kariya, and Turgeon. On the backend we have Maxwell, Cleghorn and Owen. Any type of game you want to play, we'll beat you at it.

Yes les A's have more speed. That's a given; The Sabres had more speed than the Senators did too...see where that got them?

reckoning
05-23-2007, 12:19 AM
Yes les A's have more speed. That's a given; The Sabres had more speed than the Senators did too...see where that got them?

That's only because the Senators, the representation of everything evil, were helped by Satan. Plus the Sabres had too many butterfingers (Afinogenov) who couldn't finish goals. I was thinking your defence might end up like the Flyers did in the `06 playoffs against Buffalo.

Who are you taking out of the lineup for Maxwell?

raleh
05-23-2007, 12:23 AM
That's only because the Senators, the representation of everything evil, were helped by Satan. Plus the Sabres had too many butterfingers (Afinogenov) who couldn't finish goals. I was thinking your defence might end up like the Flyers did in the `06 playoffs against Buffalo.

Who are you taking out of the lineup for Maxwell?

haha, I figured you were done for the night. Had I known you'd be around I never would have made a sabres joke. :sarcasm:

You're right about Maxwell. I've been trying really hard to find someone to take out, but I just can't. Possibly Van Impe, but I can't really justify that. I've actually seriously debated dressing him as a forward!

Nalyd Psycho
05-23-2007, 12:25 AM
Anything is better that Turgeon...

#66
05-23-2007, 06:58 AM
Some thoughts on how Les A's would try to win this series:

First and formost Les A's will try to shut down the Punch line, as we feel that the secondary scoring for the Maroons is one of their weaknesses. This would be done by using Pulford, Madden, Konstantinov and St. Laurent not only as a defensive unit but to also use Vlady to drive the Rocket crazy. Thus keeping him in the box for more minutes than Nolan would like. Putting the Vladinator with a defensive defenseman like St. Laurent will give him the ability to "roam" more often than opposing forwards would like. I think that we all know that one of the Rockets downfalls was his insane temper. Les A's will be looking to exploit that big time as well as making Cleghorn a target of our forecheck.

We also feel that a checking line consisting of Paul Kariya now gives us a mismatch for our top line. Not only is that top line going to be coming at Sprague Cleghorn and J.C. Tremblay with a lot of speed but they will also own the neutral zone without a true defensive unit of 5 against them. As much as people want to pick on their size, both Joliat and Morenz were known as firey types that drove to the net time and time again. Plus if Kariya moves up to play with Turgeon it would leave gaping hole that any of our lines can exploit.

I really have to disagree with reck about Enzicki. Not only was he a great tough guy from his time, leading the NHL in PIMs twice, but he has won three cups, had some pretty good point totals and played on the cup winning Leafs first line with Apps and Watson. He was also one of the better body checkers of his day. Coupled with Lambert and Ridley, my 4th line can go out to provide energy, take away center ice while winning board battles and chip in with the odd goal.

We also feel that Smith is twice the goalie that Cheevers was. Plus being coached by AA and put in a pressure situation of the the ATD playoffs he'll be at his best.

http://www.legendsofhockey.net/graphspot/one_cheevers05.jpg

raleh
05-23-2007, 01:21 PM
It's going to be pretty difficult for Les A's to play a matchup game without home ice in the series.

After much debate, we don't feel as if we need a 5 man defensive unit to contain the Morenz line. Herbie Lewis was drafted for the soul purpose of checking Morenz. Go back to the ATD thread where we drafted him, we've had him for that reason all along. In 1936 Lewis had the tough job of containing Charlie Conacher in the stanley cup finals. Not only did he do it, but he also produced reasonably well offensively. Lewis was known as one of the fastest skaters of his era. I'm not trying to compare his speed to Morenz who I consider to be the fastest skater of all time, but Herbie will be up for the challenge. Blair Russel was also a fine two way player. Kariya is a glaring weakness on what is as close to a checking line as we have with the recent moves, but we feel this move is acceptable against Les A's because of their glaring weakness on the top line; namely Mogilny.

The key matchup we'll be looking for is Lewis vs Morenz. Kariya will also be lingering and will have that top line looking over their shoulders in case he gets sprung free.

We like our chances with whatever matchup Arbour wants to try to throw out against the Rocket. But as I said earlier, without the last change, it's going to be tough for them.

It's playoff time! How often did Rocket or Cleghorn take big stupid penalties at this time of year? Very rarely I can assure you. They won't be goaded into it now.

#66, that's a sweet picture...Cheevers looks so old!

pitseleh
05-23-2007, 07:10 PM
The key for Montreal will be having their physical defense impose their will against Quebec's smaller top-6. If they can rough them up continually during the series, I can see them wearing out and having difficulty scoring. I don't think the depth is there (outside of Barry) to have a ton of secondary scoring.

Quebec will need to contain the Punch line. With Vladdy getting in Richard's face, I can see them goading him into a few penalties. They will also need to take advantage of Montreal's second line defensively. If they can keep them hemmed into their own zone, they should be able to score quite a few goals (even with Muller on that line).

raleh
05-23-2007, 09:36 PM
we feel that the secondary scoring for the Maroons is one of their weaknesses

Secondary scoring is most definitely NOT a problem for the Maroons. Our biggest problem is that all our second line cares about is scoring, hence the move to put Muller on the line. Turgeon wasn't terrible in every aspect of the game, he's got over 1300 regular season points. More importantly, he's got 97 playoff points in 109 games. Leach is a Conn Smythe winner who scored 24 points in 16 1976 post season games. Muller is less than 50 points shy of 1000, and Kariya has produced at over a point per game his whole career. Leach, Turgeon, and Kariya have all had at least one 50 goal season. Add that to Rocket and that makes 4 50 goal scorers on the ruster. Two of which actually step it up come playoff time. Muller has added 5 30 goal seasons. Blake has had 6 20 goal seasons and Lach has had 4, including one 30 goal season when 20 goals actually meant something. That's seven guys who can put the puck in the net on a regular basis.

This is not to mention the fact that Herbie Lewis had two 20 goal seasons, Sprague Cleghorn lead his team in points and had two seasons where he scored at a point per game, and George Owen lead the league in goals by a defenceman multiple times.

Scoring is not a problem for this team.