Phaneuf's hit on Olesz

big_steve
01-03-2004, 05:43 AM
I think it was. What do u think? Too bad a young guy like Olesz gotta suffer a concussion like that.

willie
01-03-2004, 05:44 AM
I think it was. What do u think? Too bad a young guy like Olesz gotta suffer a concussion like that.

Of course it was. There really is no debate.

Tiki
01-03-2004, 05:47 AM
Yes, it was a clean check. Too bad about the injury, but in North America that is most likely not a call.

monster_bertuzzi
01-03-2004, 05:47 AM
It was clean but i'm going to defend the ref because with the angle he had it must have looked like Phaneuf got the elbow up.

L3DZ3P
01-03-2004, 05:48 AM
It was a clean hit,no doubt.

PEli*
01-03-2004, 05:49 AM
It was completely clean but as monster_bertuzzi said, the ref's view of it was a lot different than the one we saw numerous times on slow mo replay.

Will Phaneuf now be suspended for the gold medal game? If you get a misconduct, you miss the next game, right?

flamesfan01800
01-03-2004, 05:50 AM
It was completely clean but as monster_bertuzzi said, the ref's view of it was a lot different than the one we saw numerous times on slow mo replay.

Will Phaneuf now be suspended for the gold medal game? If you get a misconduct, you miss the next game, right?

nope

Epoch
01-03-2004, 05:51 AM
Clean hit for sure.

L3DZ3P
01-03-2004, 05:51 AM
It was completely clean but as monster_bertuzzi said, the ref's view of it was a lot different than the one we saw numerous times on slow mo replay.

Will Phaneuf now be suspended for the gold medal game? If you get a misconduct, you miss the next game, right?
No Bob Mackenzie said will play monday.

leafaholix*
01-03-2004, 05:51 AM
Yes, very clean.

Lard_Lad
01-03-2004, 05:54 AM
No question it was clean. His elbow didn't get anywhere near horizontal until he was spinning away after the impact.

chicpea*
01-03-2004, 06:02 AM
Not only was the hit clean, but Phaneuf went out of his way to tuck his elbow in so Olesz wouldn't take it in the head. Still, Olesz did not look good.

finzup77r
01-03-2004, 06:07 AM
I thought I heard after this injury that Olesz had suffered a concussion before the WJC's and that he played his first game of the year earlier in the tourney, is this true, cause that would be really bad for a kid supposed top go in the top 10 in the draft

LaLaLaprise
01-03-2004, 06:13 AM
As Clean as Soap!

Feel sorry for Olesz though. But that should teach him not to dangle accross the blue line.

Snakeeye
01-03-2004, 08:55 AM
It was clean but i'm going to defend the ref because with the angle he had it must have looked like Phaneuf got the elbow up.

No, the referee was european. Therefore, body contact is a minor, and body contact that results in an injury is a major and a game misconduct. "Elbowing" was just the excuse to make the call.

ChemiseBleuHonnete
01-03-2004, 08:55 AM
Olesz is doing fine and is going to play the next game.

CeskyHokej
01-03-2004, 09:05 AM
No, the referee was european. Therefore, body contact is a minor, and body contact that results in an injury is a major and a game misconduct. "Elbowing" was just the excuse to make the call.

Wow. That is often the case but this time you can't really blame the ref. He led with his elbow and tucked it in at the last minute. So if you are the ref watching a guy come in with an elbow and the guy ends up lying on the ice with bruises on his face, what do you expect him to call? Bad call yes, blaming on "European" refs-no.

PEli*
01-03-2004, 09:07 AM
No Bob Mackenzie said he play monday.

That's awesome. I heard Miller and McGuire talking about that so I wasn't too sure.

Snakeeye
01-03-2004, 09:19 AM
Wow. That is often the case but this time you can't really blame the ref. He led with his elbow and tucked it in at the last minute. So if you are the ref watching a guy come in with an elbow and the guy ends up lying on the ice with bruises on his face, what do you expect him to call? Bad call yes, blaming on "European" refs-no.

You might have an argument for the original minor penalty. Even then I'm not sure I buy it.

The referee clearly upgraded the penalty based only on the condition of the player, not the severity of the "infraction."

I'm still going to blame the european referee for what the call ultimately was.

Sanderson
01-03-2004, 09:42 AM
If the Ref thinks it's Elbowing and Olesz get's hurt, than he has to give a Game misconduct, that's the way it works with IIHF rules. (at least in my experience)

It has nothing to do with the referee being European. It's true that some referees here give penalties for hits that seem legal, but most of them don't. There are plenty of hard hits with injuries and no penalties.

punchy1
01-03-2004, 09:52 AM
NHL and the rest I would say yes. IIHF I would say not unfortunately.

gerbilanium
01-03-2004, 10:10 AM
Someone please find me a link to this hit!!! Please please I beg

chicpea*
01-03-2004, 10:17 AM
Olesz is doing fine and is going to play the next game.
you can't be serious?! If that were me, I'd still be lying on the ice.

Lanny MacDonald*
01-03-2004, 10:25 AM
As the driven snow.

LaLaLaprise
01-03-2004, 10:35 AM
Olesz has a concussion. He wont be playing anytime soon.

chicpea*
01-03-2004, 10:55 AM
I think it may be the first time that we have had a unanimous decision here

i was thinking the same

Jacob
01-03-2004, 10:57 AM
The hit was clean by NHL standards. Blows to the head have to be done away with, but Phaneuf kept it "clean" according to the rulebook.

BTW, I will go on record: Dion Phaneuf will become the best defensemen in the league somewhere during the period of 2009-2014.
Maybe not best, but certainly most feared. I've never seen a guy cut down the angle that quickly, especially since Olesz seems to be pretty elusive. He was maneuvering in and out of the Canadian defense the previous game.

Jeff Shafer
01-03-2004, 11:00 AM
It was as clean as they get

King of Stankonia
01-03-2004, 11:02 AM
I think it may be the first time that we have had a unanimous decision here at HF (we must really hate the Czechs :p ) Clean Knockout blow by Phaneuf.



BTW, I will go on record: Dion Phaneuf will become the best defensemen in the league somewhere during the period of 2009-2014.

This is what I've been saying since the CHL prospects game last year, though not on these boards. He absolutely destroyed Marc-Antoine Pouliot who was caught with his head down. Both were clean hits but absolutely devastating. Anyone looking for the next Scott Stevens will turn to this kid. Wow.

Crosbyfan
01-03-2004, 11:27 AM
This is what I've been saying since the CHL prospects game last year, though not on these boards. He absolutely destroyed Marc-Antoine Pouliot who was caught with his head down. Both were clean hits but absolutely devastating. Anyone looking for the next Scott Stevens will turn to this kid. Wow.

Going into the game Dion was leading or at least in the running for top D in the tournament. I wonder if this penalty/incident will effect anything?

The only reason I refer to it as a penalty is because it was called that way; I don't believe it was even checking to the head after seeing the replay because the contact was high centre mid chest to braced shoulder, braced right through the legs. Because the contact was above Olesz centre of gravity and centred neither to the left or right, there was nowhere else for the head to go. A full faced mask would have reduced the concussion IMO

canucksfan
01-03-2004, 11:34 AM
Phaneuf's hit was clean and so far probably the best hit in this tournament.

gb701
01-03-2004, 11:40 AM
I think it may be the first time that we have had a unanimous decision here at HF (we must really hate the Czechs :p ) Clean Knockout blow by Phaneuf.

BTW, I will go on record: Dion Phaneuf will become the best defensemen in the league somewhere during the period of 2009-2014.

I think you are right in your prediction - and he will play in Calgary next year so there are some pros who better keep their head's up! Another Stevens is on his way into the league.

MaV
01-03-2004, 12:16 PM
The referee clearly upgraded the penalty based only on the condition of the player, not the severity of the "infraction."

Yes, and you know why? Because the IIHF rules. Basicly, if there is injury, it's a major.

Fedz
01-03-2004, 02:42 PM
Olesz has a concussion. He wont be playing anytime soon.

Can you prove this? I mean you sound like your the czech coach? I did not see this hit, I really dont know how bad it was, but my guess is its pretty bad, when everyone agrees it was huge. For all everyone knows hes dead,(although i doubt it and hope not), I dont believe anything tell i hear a press conference, or see a link.

Superstar Shane
01-03-2004, 02:49 PM
I'm sure we all know how good ESPN's hockey coverage is, but from ESPN.com (http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/story?id=1699588):
Phaneuf delivered a Scott Stevens-like hit on Czech forward Rostislav Olesz in the final minutes of the second period. Although the hit appeared to be a clean shoulder check, referee Thomas Andersson called a two-minute elbowing penalty against Phaneuf. Then, after Olesz collapsed in front of the Czech bench (he was removed on a stretcher), Andersson changed his call to a five-minute major and game misconduct. By tournament rule, the tournament directors can review the hit and add an additional one-game suspension as a disciplinary measure. After a few uneasy minutes, the directors ruled that there would be further punishment& [sic]
I looks like Phaneuf may sit out the gold medal game.

chicpea*
01-03-2004, 02:49 PM
Can you prove this? I mean you sound like your the czech coach? I did not see this hit, I really dont know how bad it was, but my guess is its pretty bad, when everyone agrees it was huge. For all everyone knows hes dead,(although i doubt it and hope not), I dont believe anything tell i hear a press conference, or see a link.

Here is a recap (http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/article.jsp?content=20040103_170814_3716) from the game. A little past halfway down there is a detailed look at the Phaneuf hit and an update on Olesz. He is having an overnighter in the hospital.

chicpea*
01-03-2004, 02:53 PM
I looks like Phaneuf may sit out the gold medal game.

that is pure bologna. it's already been reviewed and dismissed; the hit was clean. In fact, i'm watching it again atm on Coaches Corner and it's still clean. Dion will play.

nordique
01-03-2004, 02:53 PM
Clean Yes, Germ No!

Superstar Shane
01-03-2004, 03:23 PM
that is pure bologna. it's already been reviewed and dismissed; the hit was clean. In fact, i'm watching it again atm on Coaches Corner and it's still clean. Dion will play.
The question is not whether or not the hit was clean. It may very well have been (I didn't see it), but according to ESPN, there will be further disciplinary action. Unless you can provide some evidence to the contrary, I'm inclined to believe them.

Shane
01-03-2004, 03:28 PM
Does anyone have a video of the hit? I was at work and missed the game.

icarus
01-03-2004, 03:37 PM
The question is not whether or not the hit was clean. It may very well have been (I didn't see it), but according to ESPN, there will be further disciplinary action. Unless you can provide some evidence to the contrary, I'm inclined to believe them.

Well there was mention during the TSN broadcast of USA/Finland game that the hit had been reviewed and Phaneuf was not suspended.

icarus
01-03-2004, 03:38 PM
Does anyone have a video of the hit? I was at work and missed the game.

The game should be rebroadcast on TSN tonight. The hit occurred in the final five minutes of the second period.

chicpea*
01-03-2004, 03:52 PM
The question is not whether or not the hit was clean. It may very well have been (I didn't see it), but according to ESPN, there will be further disciplinary action. Unless you can provide some evidence to the contrary, I'm inclined to believe them.

Here (http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/article.jsp?content=20040103_170814_3716) (again) is the link I provided above. About 2/3 down it says:

"The Swedish referee officiating originally have Phaneuf a two-minute minor but changed it to an elbowing major and game misconduct. The International Ice Hockey Federation held a meeting about possible supplementary discipline but the referee, in his final game report, said that Phaneuf did not maliciously hit Olesz with the intent to hurt him and no further discipline was warranted."

The article is recently posted and confirms other reports I've heard talked of on the telly (tsn, sportsnet, cbc HNIC). I know espn has their ear to the ground, but i think the talk of further disciplinary action was from the 3rd period or directly after the game.
Hope that helps.
p.s. who knows for sure though? I sure hope he's not suspended - that would be an injustice - he'll probably get best d-man of the tourney.
p.p.s. if you want a link to the hit, try the HNIC page - they have replays of Coaches Corner and they showed it there today. It might not be up til tomorrow though

caber24
01-03-2004, 03:58 PM
clean shoulder hit... man that kid is going to be a beast on the calgary blueline.

chicpea*
01-03-2004, 03:58 PM
And this from a recap at slamsports:

"The International Ice Hockey Federation said it will not take further disciplinary action against Phaneuf. "

the full article can be found here (http://slam.ca/SlamResults040103/wjc_can_cze-cp.html).

Superstar Shane
01-03-2004, 04:34 PM
Don't you just love ESPN? :shakehead

BCCHL inactive
01-03-2004, 05:48 PM
Of course it was. There really is no debate.

If this was the NHL, you would be right. However, this is IIHF hockey. The IIHF has rules against checking to the head. Obviously the referee used Elbowing as his call, which was his mistake. If Andersson had have made a Check To The Head call, there would be no debate.



The referee clearly upgraded the penalty based only on the condition of the player, not the severity of the "infraction."

I'm still going to blame the european referee for what the call ultimately was.

Andersson had no choice but to make the penalty 5 and a Game Misconduct. That is IIHF rules if an infraction he called results in an injury. If Derek Herman, a Canadian referee, had have called Phaneuf for Elbowing, he would be forced to eject Phaneuf as well.

Phaneuf getting kicked out wasn't because the referee was European, it was because IIHF rules say that he had to get kicked out.

The hit was clean by NHL standards. Blows to the head have to be done away with, but Phaneuf kept it "clean" according to the rulebook.


Not according to the IIHF Rulebook. The IIHF has a Check To The Head rule, which the referee unfortunately did not call. The only reason we are debating this, is because the call was Elbowing.

eyeofthetiger
01-03-2004, 06:50 PM
The term is BODY CHECKING....BODY CHECKING...hockey allows the use of BODY CHECKING to separate the man from the puck...not from conciousness. IT was not a clean hit...well maybe it was a clean hit to the head which requires the referee to assess a penalty and if there is intent to injure perhaps suspension. It's the job of the player throwing the hit to do so cleanly and to the BODY. IF HEAD CHECKING becomes allowable even in the NHL it won't matter how big the players are they will not be able to sustain the injuries and continue playing. As most coaches, scouts, GM's etc. know it's hard enough to find good prospects for the NHL game without having them forced out of the game with injuries caused by CHECKING TO THE HEAD. Phaneuf delivered that hit to the HEAD of the opposing player not the body. There is no such thing as a clean hit to the HEAD anywhere in hockey...anywhere...including the NHL.

BCCHL inactive
01-03-2004, 06:55 PM
The term is BODY CHECKING....BODY CHECKING...IF HEAD CHECKING becomes allowable even in the NHL it won't matter how big the players are they will not be able to sustain the injuries and continue playing. As most coaches, scouts, GM's etc. know it's hard enough to find good prospects for the NHL game without having them forced out of the game with injuries caused by CHECKING TO THE HEAD. Phaneuf delivered that hit to the HEAD of the Finn not the body. There is no such thing as a clean hit to the HEAD anywhere in hockey...anywhere...including the NHL.

Theoretically, you are right...however, the NHL doesn't have a Check To The Head rule yet. In the NHL, Phaneuf's hit is as clean as a bell.

BTW, Canada was playing the Czech Republic this morning, not Finland. ;)

chicpea*
01-03-2004, 06:56 PM
I think it may be the first time that we have had a unanimous decision here at HF


hurray! we finally have some dissent. By the way, the hit was clean. ;)

eyeofthetiger
01-03-2004, 07:03 PM
Theoretically, you are right...however, the NHL doesn't have a Check To The Head rule yet. In the NHL, Phaneuf's hit is as clean as a bell.

BTW, Canada was playing the Czech Republic this morning, not Finland. ;)

They may be allowing this type of check in the NHL I can't say that they do...but it's not good for the game. Direct hits to the head will injure any player = big or small. The rising number of concussions in the NHL worries everyone. Discouraging hits of this nature is good for business...otherwise you'll be losing your product....Clean body checks delivered hard often produce injuries as well but that's part of the game...having your bell intentionally rung with a direct blow to the head isn't and has never been an integral part of the game of hockey in any country or any league.

eyeofthetiger
01-03-2004, 07:07 PM
hurray! we finally have some dissent. By the way, the hit was clean. ;)
Yeah...a clean hit to the HEAD. The kid had a big welt on his cheek as he lay on the ice barely able to figure out where the hell he was...as Pierre Maquire ranted about him diving....

Crosbyfan
01-03-2004, 07:28 PM
They may be allowing this type of check in the NHL I can't say that they do...but it's not good for the game. Direct hits to the head will injure any player = big or small. The rising number of concussions in the NHL worries everyone. Discouraging hits of this nature is good for business...otherwise you'll be losing your product....Clean body checks delivered hard often produce injuries as well but that's part of the game...having your bell intentionally rung with a direct blow to the head isn't and has never been an integral part of the game of hockey in any country or any league.

I just caught something on HNIC where Cherry and MacLean were showing a Lindros hit where a guy got a concussion. Don was saying this is how Eric has to play, too bad about the guy who got hit (seemingly genuine concern), but Eric had to get back to this style of play.

IT WAS SO OBVIOUSLY BOARDING! Eric should be suspended and Don's telling him that's the way he should play.

BCCHL inactive
01-03-2004, 07:30 PM
I just caught something on HNIC where Cherry and MacLean were showing a Lindros hit where a guy got a concussion. Don was saying this is how Eric has to play, too bad about the guy who got hit (seemingly genuine concern), but Eric had to get back to this style of play.

IT WAS SO OBVIOUSLY BOARDING! Eric should be suspended and Don's telling him that's the way he should play.

Boarding? I would have been embarassed as an official had Lindros' hit been called Boarding.

chicpea*
01-03-2004, 07:39 PM
Boarding? I would have been embarassed as an official had Lindros' hit been called Boarding.

yes. Lindros did not board him (lacouture I think) there.
IF he did, I'd be the first to be angry.

Crosbyfan
01-03-2004, 07:53 PM
Boarding? I would have been embarassed as an official had Lindros' hit been called Boarding.

The NHL site recap referred to it as "a hard but clean hit into the boards"
So obviously I'm missing something. I would describe it as "a hard but clean hit" if the boards weren't there, but they were and the guy was injured and it wasn't accidental. So what am I missing?

BCCHL inactive
01-03-2004, 07:59 PM
The NHL site recap referred to it as "a hard but clean hit into the boards"
So obviously I'm missing something. I would describe it as "a hard but clean hit" if the boards weren't there, but they were and the guy was injured and it wasn't accidental. So what am I missing?

An injury doesn't automatically make the hit illegal. By your logic, any hit into the boards should be considered Boarding.

RI Canuck
01-03-2004, 07:59 PM
Saw it on NHL2Night- it was clean.

gb701
01-03-2004, 08:39 PM
They may be allowing this type of check in the NHL I can't say that they do...but it's not good for the game. Direct hits to the head will injure any player = big or small. The rising number of concussions in the NHL worries everyone. Discouraging hits of this nature is good for business...otherwise you'll be losing your product....Clean body checks delivered hard often produce injuries as well but that's part of the game...having your bell intentionally rung with a direct blow to the head isn't and has never been an integral part of the game of hockey in any country or any league.

Sorry - you cannot expect a physical player to pull up from an otherwise totally clean hit just because he notices (if he does) that the other guy is not ready for it - which is what you are expecting. If you have played the game, you know it cannot happen that way.

Phaneuf moved to hit a puck carrier entering into the zone at speed who was starting a move towards the inside - he lead with his shoulder just like he has been (very successfully) taught - and he finished his check cleanly. The fact that the player had his head down at the time and took it to the chops is unfortunate but happens all the time. This was not an intentional "direct blow to the head" as you describe it.

Crosbyfan
01-03-2004, 09:04 PM
An injury doesn't automatically make the hit illegal. By your logic, any hit into the boards should be considered Boarding.

I'm thinking any hit into the boards that is dangerous due to the distance to the boards, angle (being more at right angles than squeezing the guy out) and how hard the hit was. This (the LIndros on Focht? hit) was a hard hit square to the boards. If he was further out from the boards it would have been worse (more chance to go headlong into the boards) What is the rule and how is it interpreted? I think any referee at the WJCs would call that simply because it was dangerous, regardless of whether an injury took place. The chances of injury are too high.

Crosbyfan
01-03-2004, 09:17 PM
Sorry - you cannot expect a physical player to pull up from an otherwise totally clean hit just because he notices (if he does) that the other guy is not ready for it - which is what you are expecting. If you have played the game, you know it cannot happen that way.

Phaneuf moved to hit a puck carrier entering into the zone at speed who was starting a move towards the inside - he lead with his shoulder just like he has been (very successfully) taught - and he finished his check cleanly. The fact that the player had his head down at the time and took it to the chops is unfortunate but happens all the time. This was not an intentional "direct blow to the head" as you describe it.

Exactly, but you can expect/require that a guy lets up from an "otherwise clean hit" when the proximity of the boards makes it dangerous. (this is with regard to the Lindros hit; I know you're referring to the Phaneuf hit which is totally different, your description was nicely stated)

BCCHL inactive
01-03-2004, 09:20 PM
I'm thinking any hit into the boards that is dangerous due to the distance to the boards, angle (being more at right angles than squeezing the guy out) and how hard the hit was. This (the LIndros on Focht? hit) was a hard hit square to the boards. If he was further out from the boards it would have been worse (more chance to go headlong into the boards) What is the rule and how is it interpreted? I think any referee at the WJCs would call that simply because it was dangerous, regardless of whether an injury took place. The chances of injury are too high.

The referee has the power of judgment to decide the degree of violence that each hit is delivered with.

I saw the Lindros hit a few times tonight, and I saw it as nothing but a common bodycheck with a result a-la "**** happens".

Any blame for a possible concussion would lie on the cement-like glass that Focht hit his head against.

Crosbyfan
01-03-2004, 09:32 PM
The referee has the power of judgment to decide the degree of violence that each hit is delivered with.

I saw the Lindros hit a few times tonight, and I saw it as nothing but a common bodycheck with a result a-la "**** happens".

And I think an open ice hit like that probably would not have been an injury but the boards made it highly likely.

Team_Spirit
01-03-2004, 09:39 PM
It was clean but team Canada game overall wasen't very clean . Team Canada hit and nobody step up from the others teams . The Americans better be physical or they'll be in trouble .

BCCHL inactive
01-03-2004, 09:39 PM
And I think an open ice hit like that probably would not have been an injury but the boards made it highly likely.

Maybe so....but that is a part of hockey. That is why we teach kids how to take hits along the boards.

Crosbyfan
01-03-2004, 09:40 PM
The referee has the power of judgment to decide the degree of violence that each hit is delivered with.

I saw the Lindros hit a few times tonight, and I saw it as nothing but a common bodycheck with a result a-la "**** happens".

Any blame for a possible concussion would lie on the cement-like glass that Focht hit his head against.

I thought (not sure) the glass had lots of give or the concussion could have been much worse. I know it varies a lot. Should be standardized.

FlyersGuy69
01-03-2004, 09:45 PM
on the Phaneuf hit, it's nothing new just ask Mark-Antoine Pouliot who he nocked into following week during CHL's Top Prospects game last year by Phaneuf.

Jacob
01-03-2004, 10:15 PM
The Lindros hit on Focht was clean. Focht is seemingly more injury prone than Eric himself.

Psycho Papa Joe
01-04-2004, 10:09 AM
It was a dirty hit, but IMO legal, but Phaneuf and the rest of the North American players should realize those types of hits are regularly penalized in Europe.

LaLaLaprise
01-04-2004, 12:07 PM
It was a dirty hit, but IMO legal, but Phaneuf and the rest of the North American players should realize those types of hits are regularly penalized in Europe.

How was it dirty?

Phaneuf sent a message to EVERYONE!! Dont try and dangle with the puck or deek me or I'm gonna put you in the hospital.

Psycho Papa Joe
01-04-2004, 12:15 PM
How was it dirty?

Phaneuf sent a message to EVERYONE!! Dont try and dangle with the puck or deek me or I'm gonna put you in the hospital.

Whenever you throw a hit that you know will hurt another player it's dirty in my books. You can still take the guy out of the play without sending him to the hospital. Legal or not, it's dirty IMO and shows the complete lack of respect players have for one another. But that's just me.

LaLaLaprise
01-04-2004, 12:18 PM
Whenever you throw a hit that you know will hurt another player it's dirty in my books. You can still take the guy out of the play without sending him to the hospital. Legal or not, it's dirty IMO and shows the complete lack of respect players have for one another. But that's just me.

Different players react different to hits.

Some players would have gotten up after the hit Phaneuf threw. Depends how the shoulder area hit the head.

Plus you are tought to skate with your head up, OLesz didnt, and he got creamed.

Better to get hit now by Phaneuf and learn, rather than having Stevens end your carrer once you make the NHL.

Sammy*
01-04-2004, 12:23 PM
Whenever you throw a hit that you know will hurt another player it's dirty in my books. You can still take the guy out of the play without sending him to the hospital. Legal or not, it's dirty IMO and shows the complete lack of respect players have for one another. But that's just me.
I dunno Joe. When I played hockey everytime I hit a guy I wanted to hurt him. I think you have to recognize their is a difference between wanting to hurt a guy & wanting to injure a guy.
Just my .02

Lard_Lad
01-04-2004, 12:26 PM
Whenever you throw a hit that you know will hurt another player it's dirty in my books.

And how, exactly, did Phaneuf "know" that he was going to hurt Olesz? Olesz is the one that screwed up by putting his head down.

whitesox_2000_22*
01-04-2004, 02:27 PM
They may be allowing this type of check in the NHL I can't say that they do...but it's not good for the game. Direct hits to the head will injure any player = big or small. The rising number of concussions in the NHL worries everyone. Discouraging hits of this nature is good for business...otherwise you'll be losing your product....Clean body checks delivered hard often produce injuries as well but that's part of the game...having your bell intentionally rung with a direct blow to the head isn't and has never been an integral part of the game of hockey in any country or any league.

The hit would have been SHoulder to Chest is Olesz was not amiring the puck....If you dont keep your head up u desreve to keep the snot knocked out of you....ask Kariya

King of Stankonia
01-04-2004, 04:32 PM
There seems to be a couple of mis-informational bits going around on this thread.

1. Olesz didn't come into the Canadian zone with his head down. Luckily, I knew I would be too tired to wake up at 8:00AM EST so I taped it and I watched the hit a bajillion times (that's a real number). Olesz had his head up and more likely than not, just didn't expect Phaneuf to tar and feather him like that. He was looking towards the net and could not have missed Phaneuf barreling along the "trolley tracks" to use a Cherry-ism. "Frozen like a deer in headlights" is probably the proper phrase.

2. Pierre McGuire never said anything about Olesz diving whatsoever. I'm the first to hate Pierre McGuire after this tournament of homerism, but he said nothing about Olesz diving. He had whined about Ladislav Smid and Jiri Hudler and had called their mishaps "boo-boos", but Olesz was left alone and actually almost praised by McGuire.

3. What exactly is a "clean" hit? If it's not hitting a guy where he can see you (i.e. in front) while he's carrying the puck without an elbow/stick all without charging, I don't know what is. To call that hit dirty is, to use a Balki-ism, "reedeekuloos".

ZombieMatt
01-04-2004, 05:41 PM
Is there an online clip of Phaneuf's hit on Olesz?

Thanks.

PEli*
01-04-2004, 05:45 PM
I would like to see it again as well. I've been looking but haven't found anything yet. If anybody has it, it'd be cool to see it again.

littleD
01-04-2004, 06:18 PM
How bad are his injuries, what are his injuries, etc.?

ZombieMatt
01-04-2004, 06:42 PM
Go to www.tsn.ca

In their audio/video section on the main page (just scroll down a little) there is a preview of the GOld Medal game. Click on that, and just under a minute into the vid there is a clip of the hit. They just show it once, but its the best I've found so far.

chicpea*
01-04-2004, 07:10 PM
To call that hit dirty is, to use a Balki-ism, "reedeekuloos".

That was just on the teep of my brain.

Marchy79
01-05-2004, 08:12 AM
Personally I realize the hit was Legally clean... But I hate to see this happen to a player who is just coming in to his own entering the draft next year. It's a shame to hear of a promising prospect get such a severe concussion at such a young age. This tournament is a tourney of goodwill, sure there is pride for your country... But there is no reason to crank the crap out of a player because you can. This tourney is important but it is not the NHL, IMHO, Phaneuf should have respected the fact he is in Finland, playing under different rules and regulations. Where it's fair to hit, but not to end careers before they start. Bad decision making by the young future star... But a good representation as to why the ornery Sutters love him so much.

I hope most of all, there will be no repurcussions to Olesz' game. That he will not feel any effects of this bad play, and become as good as he has been touted.

Personally, I will not give credence for hits like this, as hits like this have already robbed us of some great talent in the NHL, and should be banned... Losing guys like LaFontaine, and Allison made me feel this way for a long time, plus as a Canadian... it's kind of embarrassing, as the Czech's are obviously going to be overtly pissed off about it.