4 the hard way

based on the performance of shawn belle, nigel dawes , anthony stewart, and sidney crosby how would you rate their progress?


i think they will all continue to improve and to the marc andre fleury haters he'll bounce right back
the usa win is good for junior hockey next year in north dakota team usa will be the defending champs and the competition should be better can't wait! :D :D :D



p.s are there any good up and coming black players that might play for team usa any time soon :dunno:

based on the performance of shawn belle, nigel dawes , anthony stewart, and sidney crosby how would you rate their progress?


i think they will all continue to improve and to the marc andre fleury haters he'll bounce right back
the usa win is good for junior hockey next year in north dakota team usa will be the defending champs and the competition should be better can't wait! :D :D :D



p.s are there any good up and coming black players that might play for team usa any time soon :dunno:


I would think Robbie Earl would be on the radar for next year.

Gerald Coleman (USA)
Bobby Williams (Sweden)

Speaking of Shawn Belle... I was just looking over his numbers and found what I thought was some pretty interesting stuff...

- Of Canada's 27 even strength goals scored, Belle was on the ice for 9 of them. Only Stewart, Richards, and Dawe were on the ice for more. Considering the fact that he didn't get the ice time that other defensemen got, that's pretty impressive.

- Belle's +8 is tied with Gorges for tops among Canadian defenseman and only one dman in the tournament had a better +/- than those two.

- Throughout the entire tournament Belle was only on the ice for one even strength goal scored against the Canadians.

So, I guess that brings me to a question.... Has Belle progressed as much defensively as these stats and his junior stats suggest?

And, if he hasn't. Please lie to me. :D I'm having trouble coping with the fact the Devils got Parise because of an stupid move by the Blues' management of the early 90's.

It is another fallacy of the +/-.

If Phaneuf and Meech played almost every minute against every top line, it is obvious that their +/- will suffer.

Belle would be on the ice versus lesser players inflating his stats.

Sorry to burst your bubble. He may very well be a player, but not based on that.

Shawn Belle's a beast.

I've had the opportunity to see him play quite a few times this year on TV and he's much bigger and stronger then I expected.

Greatest skating prospect I've ever seen and that gives him the opporunity to rush the puck and create offense as he's got the speed to recover. His strength and super skating has played (and will play) a large role in his improvement defensively.

It is another fallacy of the +/-.

If Phaneuf and Meech played almost every minute against every top line, it is obvious that their +/- will suffer.

Belle would be on the ice versus lesser players inflating his stats.

Sorry to burst your bubble. He may very well be a player, but not based on that.

I understand that, but there is something to be said about the fact that only one goal was scored against your team in 6 games when he is on the ice, regardless of who you're playing against. Especially since no matter how a coach tries any defenseman will end up facing the other teams' top lines at some point.

I wasn't trying to suggest that Belle was better than Phaneuf.

Gerald Coleman (USA)
Bobby Williams (Sweden)


Coleman may very well get a look next year. Montoya ostensibly would be the starter, but Coleman would make a nice back-up. Any info on Williams?

Bobby Williams plays for Swift Current of the WHL.

He's eligible in the 2004 NHL draft.

http://www.whl.ca/stats/player.php?id=23871

Bobby Williams plays for Swift Current of the WHL.

He's eligible in the 2004 NHL draft.

http://www.whl.ca/stats/player.php?id=23871


I'm asking the obvious here, but how is a black guy named Bobby Williams a Swede?

I understand that, but there is something to be said about the fact that only one goal was scored against your team in 6 games when he is on the ice, regardless of who you're playing against. Especially since no matter how a coach tries any defenseman will end up facing the other teams' top lines at some point.

I wasn't trying to suggest that Belle was better than Phaneuf.

I agree with the other guy, you're reading too much into stats. Watch the games, comment on them, not just their stats.

I agree with the other guy, you're reading too much into stats. Watch the games, comment on them, not just their stats.

Statistics don't lie. People lie with statistics.

The FACT remains that he was on for only 1 even strenght goal against. Not a BAD indication of his defensive play, speed at getting back, coverage by teamates or luck, however you want to interpret it.

I'm asking the obvious here, but how is a black guy named Bobby Williams a Swede?
Not sure.

But there are a few minorities I've seen who play in Sweden...

Johnny Oduya... http://www.difhockey.se/spelarstats.php?id=387
Yared Hagos... http://www.timraik.nu/filer/laget/presentationsbilder/hagos.gif

Can't remember the others.

Statistics don't lie. People lie with statistics.

The FACT remains that he was on for only 1 even strenght goal against. Not a BAD indication of his defensive play, speed at getting back, coverage by teamates or luck, however you want to interpret it.

A better indication would be how he actually looked and played on the ice.

I'm asking the obvious here, but how is a black guy named Bobby Williams a Swede?


We do have black people in Sweden as well. But being named Bobby Williams which is not a swedish name, makes one a bit confused I agree.

We do have black people in Sweden as well. But being named Bobby Williams which is not a swedish name, makes one a bit confused I agree.



I was wondering if one of his parents was an American (or Canadian, or whatever) who had settled in Sweden. Do you have any insights on him?

Statistics don't lie. People lie with statistics.

The FACT remains that he was on for only 1 even strenght goal against. Not a BAD indication of his defensive play, speed at getting back, coverage by teamates or luck, however you want to interpret it.

Looking at the stats Crosby was on the ice for an amazing 0 goals against!!!!! WOW WHAT A AMAZING DEFENSIVE STOPPER HE MUST BE!!! Who cares about his offensive game when he can be a defensive specialist in the NHL!!!!

Looking at the stats Crosby was on the ice for an amazing 0 goals against!!!!! WOW WHAT A AMAZING DEFENSIVE STOPPER HE MUST BE!!! Who cares about his offensive game when he can be a defensive specialist in the NHL!!!!

YOU really are a mental power house!

+/- is even more unreliable in this tournament then it is in other play since they field of play isn't really balanced. I.E. Canada vs Austria...

I agree with the other guy, you're reading too much into stats. Watch the games, comment on them, not just their stats.

Since you're a 'Mental Power House' I would think you would be able to figure out that I wouldn't be asking for first hand accounts if I actually had the ability to watch the games. There is a reason why I have specifically asked if the stats are indicitive of his play, something that that Slats didn't answer at all.

Coleman may very well get a look next year. Montoya ostensibly would be the starter, but Coleman would make a nice back-up.

I highly doubt Coleman will get any consideration, he is a backup goalie in the OHL and certainly won't be a starter next year either...... unless he is traded. Coleman was given every opportunity to win the starting job in London (some would argue too many chances) and continually let in soft momentum killing goals.