What WAS your problem with Larry Murphy?

In my thread on "Most Beloved and Hated Leafs players since 1967," one of the more frequent names that came up was Larry Murphy.

WHY?

Here are my guesses:

A. Did he blast the team and the city ala Jimmy Carson and Edmonton?

B. Was the guy whom he was traded for (Dimitri Mironov, IIRC) such a beloved player?

Of all the teams he played for, the only fans who didn't like him were the Leafs fans.

Everywhere else he played (Kings, Caps, North Stars, Penguins, Red Wings), he was well-liked by their fans.

But what WAS your issue with him?

In my thread on "Most Beloved and Hated Leafs players since 1967," one of the more frequent names that came up was Larry Murphy.

WHY?

Here are my guesses:

A. Did he blast the team and the city ala Jimmy Carson and Edmonton?

B. Was the guy whom he was traded for (Dimitri Mironov, IIRC) such a beloved player?

Of all the teams he played for, the only fans who didn't like him were the Leafs fans.

Everywhere else he played (Kings, Caps, North Stars, Penguins, Red Wings), he was well-liked by their fans.

But what WAS your issue with him?


He was misplayed.

Coach Murphy used him as a shut-down defender when he was slow as molasses and unable to be the goto guy they needed.

Murphy wasn't good enough to lead the defense, and that is what was asked of him.

In Detroit, he lined up behind all star/Norris trophy calibre defenders, and could play to his strength, offense.

I didn't have a problem with him.. I often wondered why he was always booed by the fans..

He was on the team because his daddy coached it.

Mike Murphy is eleven years older than Larry.

Mike Murphy is eleven years older than Larry.

Shh.

In my thread on "Most Beloved and Hated Leafs players since 1967," one of the more frequent names that came up was Larry Murphy.

WHY?

Here are my guesses:

A. Did he blast the team and the city ala Jimmy Carson and Edmonton?

B. Was the guy whom he was traded for (Dimitri Mironov, IIRC) such a beloved player?

Of all the teams he played for, the only fans who didn't like him were the Leafs fans.

Everywhere else he played (Kings, Caps, North Stars, Penguins, Red Wings), he was well-liked by their fans.

But what WAS your issue with him?

His flaws REALLY stood out in Toronto, which led to all the booing. We all expected an offensive defenceman to play solid defensively. Not going to happen. Once booed into Detroit he showed us all what he can really do.

LINK (http://www.topix.com/hockey-players/larry-murphy/2007/09/murphy-among-nhls-most-hated-players)

Here's a link (not a great one, but still) to a site talking about why Murphy was so hated.

Basically the other posters have summed it up nicely. He came here highly touted (and expensive) and was a complete letdown. We traded him for nothing, he wins 2 cups. Then he brings the cup back to Toronto and rubs in it.

And according to the article (again, sorry, wasn't able to find the actual ESPN article) they claim that Murphy was on the "NHLs most hated players" list, which means he was hated by more than just Toronto fans.

edit: Haha. I'm an idiot. The link to the ESPN article is right on the page, and apparently his being hated in Toronto was enough to put him on it.

I was thrilled when we got him, and hoped he would make us a better team. Unfortunately, we were mired in mediocrity, and Larry couldn't change that.

the mistreatment of hall of famer Larry Murphy was Leaf fans' and media's most embarassing moment.

it also showed how overrated the "hockey knowledge" in this city is, when they actually thought that one of the best defensmen in the league was actually one of the worst.


and you know what? we haven't learned a thing since then - we continue to display our absolute ignorance of what a good defenseman looks like with our current mistreatment of the excellent defensemen on this team at the moment.

the mistreatment of hall of famer Larry Murphy was Leaf fans' and media's most embarassing moment.


Oh, I don't know about that.

he showed a lack of heart for the leafs, and didn't do anything impressive until he joined the redwings

Maybe if he didn't suck he would have been liked.

and didn't do anything impressive until he joined the redwings

yeah, those two cups with Pittsburgh as a top-pair defenseman before coming to the leafs, and then being the 3rd leaf dman in history to top 60 points in a season, weren't impressive in the least.

I didn't have a problem with Larry Murphy.
He wasn't used properly and that was a coaching issue.
Mike Murphy coached not to lose instead of coaching to win.

mironov was the man.




#15 :(

I didn't have a problem with him.. I often wondered why he was always booed by the fans..

That's how I saw it.

Mike Murphy never did learn how to use Larry Murphy period and he didn't play his best hockey in Toronto. The fans expected too much from him since he was the Leafs number one defensemen and one very expensive one too boot. His first season was a very good under Pat Burns/Nick Beverly but struggled with Murphy's system and he could never find his groove that year.

Larry Murphy was basically a Jason Allison on defense in that he put up a lot of points, but he was slow as hell and sometimes looked embarassingly bad out there. He was acquired to do a lot of things for us but had his limitations on defense and was getting older. He was put into a specific role in Detroit and did well there.

yeah, those two cups with Pittsburgh as a top-pair defenseman before coming to the leafs, and then being the 3rd leaf dman in history to top 60 points in a season, weren't impressive in the least.

note: how well did the leafs do with murphy as a defenceman? not too well, and fyi, he did more as a redwing after he went to detroit

Larry Murphy was basically a Jason Allison on defense in that he put up a lot of points, but he was slow as hell and sometimes looked embarassingly bad out there.

This.

Most of the holier-than-thou types who cluck their tongue and shake their finger at the Leaf fans for booing Murphy (looking at you, Ron MacLean) do so forgetting that when he was actually on Toronto, he was terrible.

see also: McCabe, Bryan

Larry Murphy was basically a Jason Allison on defense in that he put up a lot of points, but he was slow as hell and sometimes looked embarassingly bad out there. He was acquired to do a lot of things for us but had his limitations on defense and was getting older. He was put into a specific role in Detroit and did well there.

Well you keep that under your hat...2 cup winners in Pittsburgh and 2 cups in Detroit and a shoe-in for the HOF. Ya think Allison will be in the HOF?

You can rack his time in Toronto as playing on a crap team with a dope as a coach.

McCabe had a bad season last year on a bad team. He had a rough start this year, but since the end of November he's been like a +10, has only 57 penalty minutes on the season, and has been a between 23 and 30 minutes a night d-man. You can't ask much more of the guy.

People dump on him, but without him in the line-up this year, we're 10-14-4.

This.

Most of the holier-than-thou types who cluck their tongue and shake their finger at the Leaf fans for booing Murphy (looking at you, Ron MacLean) do so forgetting that when he was actually on Toronto, he was terrible.

yeah, Murphy was good enough to be a two-time cup winner immediately before coming to Toronto, and immediately after - as a TOP PAIR DEFENSEMAN.

but somehow, only in Toronto, he turned into a crappy defenseman who was worthless and had to be given away.

holier than thou my ass- toronto fans don't know jack about dmen,

yeah, Murphy was good enough to be a two-time cup winner immediately before coming to Toronto, and immediately after - as a TOP PAIR DEFENSEMAN.

but somehow, only in Toronto, he turned into a crappy defenseman who was worthless and had to be given away.

holier than thou my ass- toronto fans don't know jack about dmen,


Thanks for the laugh zeke, good one. :thumbu:

holier than thou my ass- toronto fans don't know jack about dmen,

The irony here is simply astounding.

As for the topic, Murphy got booed because he couldn't measure up to the expectations. He skated like an arthritic grandma and the fans lost patience.

The fact that he looked so much better on a far superior Wings team means absolutely nothing in relation to how he played in Toronto. Nothing at all.

yep, that's right pep, the fact that he played like a hall of famer everywhere else in his career, and also managed to put up elite numbers while in Toronto, means absolutely NOTHING regarding Leaf fans' and media's ability to evaluate defensmen when they booed him out of town.

obviously, he magically changed from an elite defenseman into a barely capable NHLer in the barely two seasons he was in Toronto (barely capable, of course, only DESPITE still somehow posting elite numbers), and then magically changed back into an elite defensemen upon leaving.

yep, that's right pep, the fact that he played like a hall of famer everywhere else in his career, and also managed to put up elite numbers while in Toronto, means absolutely NOTHING regarding Leaf fans' and media's ability to evaluate defensmen when they booed him out of town.

obviously, he magically changed from an elite defenseman into a barely capable NHLer in the barely two seasons he was in Toronto (barely capable, of course, only DESPITE still somehow posting elite numbers), and then magically changed back into an elite defensemen upon leaving.

The fans and media didn't make him skate like a tortoise. He went from trying to carry the load for a crappy Leaf team to a great Red Wing team. No magic involved, just a better role for Murphy.

Murphy was one of many such acquisitions the Leafs have made over the years, searching for the elusive elite talent they rarely seem to have in the lineup. And as usual, they got the aging name on the downside of his career. They've done this over and over again since then, too.

I notice you made little mention of Murphy's skating or play other than to show he put up points. And of course, lots of points must mean you're supplying "elite" play, right? You're so busy trying to slag the fans you didn't have time, I guess.

yeah, Murphy was good enough to be a two-time cup winner immediately before coming to Toronto, and immediately after - as a TOP PAIR DEFENSEMAN.

but somehow, only in Toronto, he turned into a crappy defenseman who was worthless and had to be given away.

holier than thou my ass- toronto fans don't know jack about dmen,

Did you actually watch the Leafs in 1997?

For all your cup talk, I can tell you Murphy played on a team with the Samuelssons and Paul Coffey on defense in Pittsburgh, with Barrasso in net and Lemieux, Stevens, Jagr, Francis, Recchi and others up front, so I don't think he was doing it alone, and in Detroit, his peers on defense included guys like Nicklas Lidstrom, Vladimir Konstantinov for the first cup, the all time great Slava Fetisov, Bob Rouse and a couple of decent two way guys in Yzerman and Fedorov.

If Murphy was really so great in Toronto, why was he GIVEN AWAY? Wouldn't he have brought back something in a trade?

Murphy didn't want to be in Toronto and made no effort to hide that fact and played like crap regardless of what he did elsewhere.

Funny thing is Fletcher got more for trading Gill than he did trading Murphy, which was nothing.

yep, that's right pep, the fact that he played like a hall of famer everywhere else in his career, and also managed to put up elite numbers while in Toronto, means absolutely NOTHING regarding Leaf fans' and media's ability to evaluate defensmen when they booed him out of town.

obviously, he magically changed from an elite defenseman into a barely capable NHLer in the barely two seasons he was in Toronto (barely capable, of course, only DESPITE still somehow posting elite numbers), and then magically changed back into an elite defensemen upon leaving.

Right, because hockey is all about numbers. How about the fact that with this elite defenseman, the Leafs were in last place for most of January 1997? How come he was given away for free at the deadline by Cliff Fletcher? You obviously don't remember him play because he was more painful to watch than Jason Allison. The guy looked like he was skating in concrete while everyone else had rocket packs on. It's a lot easier to be great at being an offensive defenseman when you have adequate support from the likes of Yzerman, Feds, Lidstrom, Shanahan, etc in Detroit, and Lemieux, Jagr, Coffey, Francis, Recchi, Stevens, etc in Pittsburgh.

Murphy didn't want to be in Toronto and made no effort to hide that fact and played like crap regardless of what he did elsewhere.

Funny thing is Fletcher got more for trading Gill than he did trading Murphy, which was nothing.

Which kind of says something about his value around the league at the time.

Which kind of says something about his value around the league at the time.

I never watched Murphy played in leafs, but hows 61 pts in 82 games and 39 pts in 69 games "BAD" ?

I guess we should trade our whole D for nothing this offseason then

I never watched Murphy played in leafs, but hows 61 pts in 82 games and 39 pts in 69 games "BAD" ?

I guess we should trade our whole D for nothing this offseason then

It was his defensive lapses that made the fans turn on him. He just wasn't fast enough to play the huge minutes that he was playing against the other teams best players.

The fans and media didn't make him skate like a tortoise. He went from trying to carry the load for a crappy Leaf team to a great Red Wing team. No magic involved, just a better role for Murphy.

Murphy was one of many such acquisitions the Leafs have made over the years, searching for the elusive elite talent they rarely seem to have in the lineup. And as usual, they got the aging name on the downside of his career. They've done this over and over again since then, too.

I notice you made little mention of Murphy's skating or play other than to show he put up points. And of course, lots of points must mean you're supplying "elite" play, right? You're so busy trying to slag the fans you didn't have time, I guess.

thank you, thank you, for proving my point perfectly.

the classic toronto fan logic when it comes to dmen - this guy has ONE flaw that makes him look bad at some points, so let's ignore all the assets he built his hall of fame career on, and just focuse on that ONE WEAKNESS.

because if he's not perfect, then he's not good enough to play for the mighty Maple Leafs - even if he's hall of fame worthy everywhere else.

Yes, Larry Murphy was not a great skater, and never was at any point in his career, but this didn't stop him from being a hall of fame defenseman, and an integral top-pair defenseman on 4 cup winners.


I find it funny that you think pointing to one weakness of him as a player actually is a relevant reason to ignore evertyhing else he brought to the table, both offensively and defensively. You couldn't have proved my point more perfectly.

I never watched Murphy played in leafs, but hows 61 pts in 82 games and 39 pts in 69 games "BAD" ?

I guess we should trade our whole D for nothing this offseason then

Hi. Just came over from leafs.chat and I'll make my first post on one of my favourite topics, Larry Murphy.

I watched Murph as a Junior and with the leafs. He always was about the same. Very strong but slow, a great quarterback with a decent shot.

Given some surrounding players to score when he fed them, and to cover up for him when he made glaring errors, he was very valuable.

In Toronto, his mistakes, and he always made some dandies throughout his career, were dwelled upon, and the fact that he was probably the highest paid leaf and they still didn't win anything, brought the boo-birds out.

Now I'm not saying McCabe is equal to Murph, and he drives me crazy with his lapses, but given what I have just said, perhaps if McGiveaway played for Detroit, he would look a lot better. Or, if leafs won two cups, he'd look a lot better.

Matter of fact, so would I.

Yes, Larry Murphy was not a great skater, and never was at any point in his career, but this didn't stop him from being a hall of fame defenseman, and an integral top-pair defenseman on 4 cup winners.

I find it funny that you think pointing to one weakness of him as a player actually is a relevant reason to ignore evertyhing else he brought to the table, both offensively and defensively. You couldn't have proved my point more perfectly.

The expectations of him coming into to Toronto were that he was going to be that top-pairing guy that the Leafs hadn't had since Borje Salming (and one could argue still haven't truly seen since Sweden's underwear king left). He was just at the point in his career where he couldn't play that big-time role and the fans directly took it out on Murphy, unfairly or not.

The fans at that point were used to everything turning to gold that Fletcher & Burns touched, so when the wheels started falling off, they went after the newest guy and one of the more noticeable underachievers. Guys like Dougie were given a free pass because they'd been here so long.

Regardless of what Murphy's career had been to that point when he joined the Leafs, he was no longer that player (still good, but not great) and he never lived it down.

He was the new guy, he was one of the highest paid players (if not, the highest paid player) on the team, he played a ton of minutes, he made some very glaring errors and the team was on the downfall. He was a prime target for fickle fans.

Hi. Just came over from leafs.chat and I'll make my first post on one of my favourite topics, Larry Murphy.

I watched Murph as a Junior and with the leafs. He always was about the same. Very strong but slow, a great quarterback with a decent shot.

Given some surrounding players to score when he fed them, and to cover up for him when he made glaring errors, he was very valuable.

In Toronto, his mistakes, and he always made some dandies throughout his career, were dwelled upon, and the fact that he was probably the highest paid leaf and they still didn't win anything, brought the boo-birds out.

Now I'm not saying McCabe is equal to Murph, and he drives me crazy with his lapses, but given what I have just said, perhaps if McGiveaway played for Detroit, he would look a lot better. Or, if leafs won two cups, he'd look a lot better.

Matter of fact, so would I.

Good post, welcome to HF, hopefully you'll enjoy it. Feel free to PM any questions to myself or the other Leaf mod's.

thank you, thank you, for proving my point perfectly.

the classic toronto fan logic when it comes to dmen - this guy has ONE flaw that makes him look bad at some points, so let's ignore all the assets he built his hall of fame career on, and just focuse on that ONE WEAKNESS.

because if he's not perfect, then he's not good enough to play for the mighty Maple Leafs - even if he's hall of fame worthy everywhere else.

Yes, Larry Murphy was not a great skater, and never was at any point in his career, but this didn't stop him from being a hall of fame defenseman, and an integral top-pair defenseman on 4 cup winners.


I find it funny that you think pointing to one weakness of him as a player actually is a relevant reason to ignore evertyhing else he brought to the table, both offensively and defensively. You couldn't have proved my point more perfectly.

All that, and you STILL haven't actually addressed his play here. Who said anything about perfection? Why did they have to give him away if he was so great?

He was too old and slow to carry the mail for a bad team. That's what it comes down to. Detroit was much better and, surrounded by that talent, he was obviously able to succeed. This has nothing at all to do with how he played in Toronto, much as you'd like it to.

It's hilarious how you think you've proven some kind of "point", other than that you'll defend any Leaf player no matter how they play or what happens with the team. You're the guy who went on and on about how a defence with Aki Berg and Cory Cross was one of the best in the league, remember?

I never watched Murphy played in leafs, but hows 61 pts in 82 games and 39 pts in 69 games "BAD" ?

I guess we should trade our whole D for nothing this offseason then

You answered your own question, you never watched Larry Murphy play.

Imagine Bryan McCabe vs the Flyers in 2004 with Jason Allison's skating ability and you'd have a good idea of how bad he was in Toronto.

The expectations of him coming into to Toronto were that he was going to be that top-pairing guy that the Leafs hadn't had since Borje Salming (and one could argue still haven't truly seen since Sweden's underwear king left).

Nobody expected a top pairing guy like Salming. You don't really get those kinds of players when the guy going the other way is Dimitri Mironov.

I always thought Larry Murphy was simply misused in Toronto. He shouldn't have been the #1 d-man on a weak defensive club. He got put out there in all the situations where you needed a stopper and that was never his game.

Personally, I thought Schneider was the one who deserved the boos, and he never got them.

I always thought Larry Murphy was simply misused in Toronto. He shouldn't have been the #1 d-man on a weak defensive club. He got put out there in all the situations where you needed a stopper and that was never his game.

Personally, I thought Schneider was the one who deserved the boos, and he never got them.


Agreed on your comment regarding Murphy. I actually liked Schneider when he was here, he was inconsistent, but I loved his all around game when he decided to play.

I always thought Larry Murphy was simply misused in Toronto. He shouldn't have been the #1 d-man on a weak defensive club. He got put out there in all the situations where you needed a stopper and that was never his game.

Personally, I thought Schneider was the one who deserved the boos, and he never got them.

He was another guy that Fletcher brought in that didn't want to be in Toronto.

Agreed on your comment regarding Murphy. I actually liked Schneider when he was here, he was inconsistent, but I loved his all around game when he decided to play.

To me, Schneider always looked disinterested. It didn't help that he had that abdominal injury that took him out for the better part of a year.

He's still playing, so obviously he had something to bring to the table. I just never felt we saw it.

To me, Schneider always looked disinterested. It didn't help that he had that abdominal injury that took him out for the better part of a year.

He's still playing, so obviously he had something to bring to the table. I just never felt we saw it.

I acutally liked Schneider back then.. I was like *** are they doing when they traded him for karpovtsev... and then we got mccabe for karps... fortunately... or not..

All that, and you STILL haven't actually addressed his play here. Who said anything about perfection?

what do you mean I haven't addressed his play here - he was excellent here, and clearly our best defenseman. the third leaf defenseman in history to put up over 60 points, and despite apparently being an awful defensemn, somehow managed to keep an even +/- rating here on an awful team.

Why did they have to give him away if he was so great?

You seem to have real trouble grasping the fact that players can be overrated and underrated in the league, and that GMs make bad deals all the time.

Pointing to his apparent trade value at the time is ridiculous - Detroit was laughing all the way to the bank on that one.



He was too old and slow to carry the mail for a bad team. That's what it comes down to. Detroit was much better and, surrounded by that talent, he was obviously able to succeed. This has nothing at all to do with how he played in Toronto, much as you'd like it to.[/qutoe]

Larry Murphy was Larry Murphy wherever he played - the problem was that the leaf team around him stunk.

And, as they've proven time and time again - leaf fans will scapegoat their best defensemen, when they're the last problem on the team.

[quote]It's hilarious how you think you've proven some kind of "point", other than that you'll defend any Leaf player no matter how they play or what happens with the team.

I didn't need to prove anything - you've done it all yourself.

You're the guy who went on and on about how a defence with Aki Berg and Cory Cross was one of the best in the league, remember?

Another classic toronto fan piece of logic - according to leaf fans, no team can have a good defense corps with players like Cross, Berg, Lumme or Eriksson as the 6th/7th defensmen on the team. when, of course, they've been part of other good defense corps.

Which defense corps are you claiming I was referring to, btw?

99-00? (Berard, Kaberle, Yushkevich, Karpotsev, Markov, Cote, Cross)
00-01? (Kaberle, McCabe, Yushkevich, Markov, Manson, Cross, Berg)
01-02? (McCabe, Kaberle, Yushkevich, Pilar, Lumme/Manson, Cross, Berg, Eriksson)
02-03? (McCabe, Kaberle, Svehla, Wesley, Housley, Lumme, Berg)
03-04? (McCabe, kaberle, Leetch, Klee, Pilar, Johansson, Marchment, Berg)

Who did Murphy pair up with in Pittsburgh and Detroit, as opposed to who he paired up with in Toronto?

That could answer your question right there. A lot of guys are as good as their ice mates.

Toronto fans, in general, have a tendency to dwell on D-men mistakes and skating. Glaring errors and skatings are two very easy things to see, and relatively easy to "prove". It doesn't matter if you put up points or play well consistently, if you do one or the other (god forbid both) you're run out. We're seeing it with McCabe, we saw it with Antro and Murphy. Yusky sat through it and I still believe it was a huge part in Jason Smith's departure. Murphy was far from perfect, but he was still extremely effective offensively. His role was too much, and he was hung out to dry by the media and coaching staff. He was brining Jonsson along nicely as his partner early in his career too. It's taken some of these players many years to come through the media crap (Antro, Yusky), while Murphy never really stayed that long. He controlled the flow of the game excellently, but was not strong defensively. He shouldn't have been asked to be, he was more than capable of playing an Ozlinish type role. It's clear he was useful, he has the numbers and cup rings to prove it, he just wasn't put in a position to succeed and the constant harping hurt his play.

Murphy was far from perfect, but he was still extremely effective offensively.

I don't think he was particularly effective. During the second year he was here we were a last place team for much of the year and finished 4th last. In the first year he was here he was part of a team that got shutdown offensively by the Blues. He just put up a lot of points, but was part of a dysfunctional team with the saddest transition game. The guy leeched a lot of points off the PP, but he was hardly a dynamic offensive force.

what do you mean I haven't addressed his play here - he was excellent here, and clearly our best defenseman. the third leaf defenseman in history to put up over 60 points, and despite apparently being an awful defensemn, somehow managed to keep an even +/- rating here on an awful team.


I don't think you've really addressed his play at all. Murphy was slow and he often let guys get around and behind him. He coughed up the puck on a regular basis and was too slow to carry the puck to help the transition game. He was good on the PP. It's kind of interesting that our 'best defenseman' was given away for nothing. I don't think that happens a lot does it? And it's interesting the Leafs did far better defensively when they brought guys like Jason Smith and a spare part like Craig Wolanin in after Murphy left town.

I don't think he was particularly effective. During the second year he was here we were a last place team for much of the year and finished 4th last. In the first year he was here he was part of a team that got shutdown offensively by the Blues. He just put up a lot of points, but was part of a dysfunctional team with the saddest transition game. The guy leeched a lot of points off the PP, but he was hardly a dynamic offensive force.
You usually judge players offensively by numbers. It's hard to create when their isn't much around. The problems in Toronto were far greater than him, but he still managed to produce well. He "leeched" points throughout his career. He was a set-up man. He could QB the PP and find the open man. It's how he was effective offensively.

I don't think he was particularly effective. During the second year he was here we were a last place team for much of the year and finished 4th last. In the first year he was here he was part of a team that got shutdown offensively by the Blues. He just put up a lot of points, but was part of a dysfunctional team with the saddest transition game. The guy leeched a lot of points off the PP, but he was hardly a dynamic offensive force.

Ok, now apply that logic to Sundin and Antropov this year.

Doesn't work does it? Shall we apply it to Ovechkin last year? If any skater is good enough to lift a team up on his own, it's Ovechkin, right? Oh wait, Washington spent pretty much the entirety of last year in the bottom 5.

Ok, now apply that logic to Sundin and Antropov this year.

Doesn't work does it? Shall we apply it to Ovechkin last year? If any skater is good enough to lift a team up on his own, it's Ovechkin, right? Oh wait, Washington spent pretty much the entirety of last year in the bottom 5.

Coupled with his actual play and I will tell you he was much closer to Jason Allison's garbage points than Ovechkin, Sundin and Antropov. Don't make me laugh.

so as far as i got from this thread...

zeke= likes murphy

everyone else = didn't like murphy

me= thought murphy was useless as a leaf, slow and didn't product like we wanted him to... can we close this thread now? i can't believe it's still going on

Murphy showed a complete lack of heart while playing for the Leafs.

One play that really sticks out for me is when a guy on the other team had a breakaway and Murphy was chasing him. The guy was at about the hash marks and Murphy gave up, stopped skating and just hung his head while the guy went in to score.

I didn't like Murphy before he came to the Leafs, and I didn't like him on the Leafs. And his importance those Cup winning Detroit teams is overstated. He's one of the more overrated defencemen in NHL history in my opinion.

so as far as i got from this thread...

zeke= likes murphy

everyone else = didn't like murphy

me= thought murphy was useless as a leaf, slow and didn't product like we wanted him to... can we close this thread now? i can't believe it's still going on

you forgot one little category:

REST OF THE HOCKEY WORLD = LOVES MURPHY

I can't help but wonder how Leafs fans would have felt about Phil Housley.

leaf fans have managed to hate all of Murphy, Leetch, and Housley. all Hall of Fame type defensemen.

it's quite the accomplishment.

leaf fans have managed to hate all of Murphy, Leetch, and Housley.

I meant if Toronto had Phil Housley in his prime years, when he was such a fantastic player on the ice.

From 1983-1993 (his very best years) when he was a fast skater, great power-play QB, and precise passer.

I meant if Toronto had Phil Housley in his prime years, when he was such a fantastic player on the ice.

From 1983-1993 (his very best years) when he was a fast skater, great power-play QB, and precise passer.

Housley stunk too. Both Housley and Murphy played in an era where defence was an afterthought.

In order to survive in today's NHL, both would have had to alter their games drastically. Housley demonstrated he was not able to do that and we saw that very clearly in his last few years in the NHL playing in a more defensive era.

I meant if Toronto had Phil Housley in his prime years, when he was such a fantastic player on the ice.

From 1983-1993 (his very best years) when he was a fast skater, great power-play QB, and precise passer.


well, it took about 8 years for Leaf fans to warm up to kaberle, so that's a decent measuring stick.

Housley stunk too. Both Housley and Murphy played in an era where defence was an afterthought.

In order to survive in today's NHL, both would have had to alter their games drastically. Housley demonstrated he was not able to do that and we saw that very clearly in his last few years in the NHL playing in a more defensive era.

To back this point up, Housley racked up a crap load of points in a very weak era of NHL hockey. That is the sole reason anyone would consider him for the Hall of Fame.

To get a better idea of his actual NHL worth, consider that he played for 8 teams in his final 11 seasons and was essentially waiver wire fodder by the time he was 33 years old.

I consider Larry Murphy to be in a similar class. He was a bit better than Housley but not by much.

Housley racked up a crap load of points in a very weak era of NHL hockey.

So did Paul Coffey, yet he doesn't recieve much negativity.

you forgot one little category:

REST OF THE HOCKEY WORLD = LOVES MURPHY

Murphy's one of those guys that at the end of his career and once he retires, everyone looks at his points and then puts him in the Hall of Fame.

But he was never particularly highly valued during his career.

At the age of 28 he was traded with Mike Gartner for Dino Ciccarelli and Bob Rouse. If you figure that Gartner and Ciccarelli roughly even each other out, you're left with Murphy for Rouse.

At the age of 29 he was traded for lesser lights such as Chris Dahlquist and Jim Johnson (who went on to score a whopping 23 NHL goals combined following that trade).

At the age of 34 he was traded for the immortal Dmitri Mironov.

And finally at the age of 36 he was dumped for future considerations.

So did Paul Coffey, yet he doesn't recieve much negativity.

Coffey's another one you can throw on that list if you want. Although he was a notch above either Murphy or Housley.

I don't know why he doesn't receive more negativity though. He was shuffled around between 8 teams in his final 10 years in the league.

For that matter, what do all of Murphy, Housley and Coffey have in common? They all racked up huge amounts of points in the 80's. And all of their careers went downhill in a hurry once the defensive era came in and teams demanded a more complete game from their defencemen.

Yeah, Murphy's career went so far downhill that he only managed to win 4 cups in the 90s, as a top-pair defenseman.

my problem with larry no matter where he played was the turtle slow pace at which he palyed as well as that stupid s**** eating grin he always had on his face.....

beyond that I'm sure jesus loved him too ;)

Yeah, Murphy's career went so far downhill that he only managed to win 4 cups in the 90s, as a top-pair defenseman.

Yes keep repeating this with no regard for what he did in a Leaf uniform, or the hockey powerhouses he played on for those cups.

well, it took about 8 years for Leaf fans to warm up to kaberle, so that's a decent measuring stick.

Maybe in your world. Kaberle was regarded very highly by management and fans early in his career. Notice how Quinn wouldn't trade him for Eric Lindros in 2001? He had a tough stretch somewhere around 2003 or 2004 in the playoffs, but he's always been appreciated.

Yeah, Murphy's career went so far downhill that he only managed to win 4 cups in the 90s, as a top-pair defenseman.

He was also traded three times in the 90's in what should have been the prime of his career. Those three trades combined garnered Chris Dahlquist, Jim Johnson, Dmitri Mironov and future considerations.

If he was as valuable as you say, don't you think trading him three times would have resulted in more than that collection of misfits?

People rag on the Leafs for dumping him, but both Minnesota and Pittsburgh dumped him for garbage as well.

Murphy's one of those guys that at the end of his career and once he retires, everyone looks at his points and then puts him in the Hall of Fame.

But he was never particularly highly valued during his career.

At the age of 28 he was traded with Mike Gartner for Dino Ciccarelli and Bob Rouse. If you figure that Gartner and Ciccarelli roughly even each other out, you're left with Murphy for Rouse.

At the age of 29 he was traded for lesser lights such as Chris Dahlquist and Jim Johnson (who went on to score a whopping 23 NHL goals combined following that trade).

At the age of 34 he was traded for the immortal Dmitri Mironov.

And finally at the age of 36 he was dumped for future considerations.

Finally a voice of reason.

Murphy was a good offensive defenseman who had brutal skating ability and was an absolute horrible fit for the Toronto Maple Leafs, who needed guys to replace defensive minded guys like Rouse and Lefebvre. Murphy was an offensive defenseman who put up a lot of junk points but didn't exactly make the transition game go, coughed up the puck a lot, got out of position often and didn't use his frame at all for any sort of physical game.

If Murphy was so damn valuable, why was he constantly on the move for better defensive defensemen who put up a fraction of the points he did?

The Kings traded a 22 year old 6'2" defenseman who had put up 76, 66 and 62 points his first three years for a defensive guy like Brian Engblom and another guy.

Then he's traded like Leaf Army points out for what amounts to Bob Rouse to Minnesota.

Then he's traded to Pittsburgh for a minor leaguer and defensive defenseman Jim Johnson.

This is all in his prime. Guys like Coffey and Housley didn't start moving around until later in their careers, and they were still traded for substantial returns. Coffey netted Edmonton a lot of youth from Pittsburgh, and was later packaged with Primeau to get a young Brendan Shanahan. Housley was traded for Winnipeg's franchise player Dale Hawerchuk.

Then Murphy comes to Toronto for all of Dimitri Mironov. I mean, wouldn't Pittsburgh have received something more than Mironov if Murphy was so great? Pittsburgh had also traded for Sergei Zubov that year. Why didn't they keep the fantastic Murphy around to pair up with Zubov?

Then the legendary Cliff Fletcher gets all of nothing back for Murphy. If he was rebuilding, wouldn't any asset from Detroit have made some sense to get back?

Murphy won some cups, he played a role and fit in well, but he wasn't a number one defenseman. He had major flaws that were all exposed in Toronto. He sucked the way McCabe sucks on his worst night, coupled with Aki Berg's consistency for crappiness, coupled with Jason Allison's ability to get his name on the scoreboard while affecting nothing for the better while as fast as glue. The guy flat out sucked here.