Daniel Carcillo for Clarke MacArthur and Maxim Afinogenov

Over payment from the Sabres, unless they are going to take Morris back or something.

I think Carcillo + 4th for Afinogenov would get it done.

it would be that easy? DONE

Why would Phoenix do this?

It's not like they need the offensive depth. Carcillo add's a special element to the team.

Well - I'm sure the value is there - but I don't see the Yotes with needing to do this. I think he's a fan favorite there and is an element that the team needs.

Ya know......Carcillo is going no where. He is too important to this team's future...maybe not on the level of Turris or Mueller but he is still a key component to the Coyotes organization. Pass big time.

I don't know that the value is terrible, but I don't see Phoenix trading away Carcillo. They might be able to use Max, but I don't know that they can afford him, and if they could, I'd prefer that money be spent on a top four defenseman.

Carcillo aint going anywhere, he's a staple on the team.

Value is not bad, but as others have said, Carcillo is worth more to Phoenix than his real trade value would suggest.

Others have already nailed it. The value is good for Phoenix, but no way they do that deal. Carcillo is and will be more important to the Coyotes than Afinogenov and MacArther would be. The Coyotes have already made moves with Carcillo's development in mind. The organization thinks so highly of him that they went out and traded for Brian McGrattan, then signed Todd Fedoruk. The idea being that Carcillo can now focus on playing hockey, rather than all of the rough stuff. People who don't follow him closely assume that his game is only about being a tough guy. They don't realize how talented Danny is. Our team captain believes that Carcillo could be a 25 goal scorer, some day. Shane Doan hasn't seen a whole lot of those come through Phoenix, so that's a pretty nice compliment.

Others have already nailed it. The value is good for Phoenix, but no way they do that deal. Carcillo is and will be more important to the Coyotes than Afinogenov and MacArther would be. The Coyotes have already made moves with Carcillo's development in mind. The organization thinks so highly of him that they went out and traded for Brian McGrattan, then signed Todd Fedoruk. The idea being that Carcillo can now focus on playing hockey, rather than all of the rough stuff. People who don't follow him closely assume that his game is only about being a tough guy. They don't realize how talented Danny is. Our team captain believes that Carcillo could be a 25 goal scorer, some day. Shane Doan hasn't seen a whole lot of those come through Phoenix, so that's a pretty nice compliment.

Even if they have brought in McGrattan and Fedoruk, this would not be the first time that a team has tried to get Carcillo to restrain himself and it wont be the last.

Even if they have brought in McGrattan and Fedoruk, this would not be the first time that a team has tried to get Carcillo to restrain himself and it wont be the last.

There are HHOFers who always played right on the edge, often crossing it.

There are HHOFers who always played right on the edge, often crossing it.

So what Carcillo is never going to be a hall of famer.

RT's point is that having a temper never stopped those guys from being pretty good hockey players.

RT's point is that having a temper never stopped those guys from being pretty good hockey players.

Who played in much different times than Carcillo does. Carcillo makes Avery look like a Lady Byng candidate.

Why do Pittsburgh fans always want to tell Coyotes fans who Dan Carcillo is? How many times have you seen him play in the NHL versus how many times we have? Most of the time you guys have no clue what you are talking about, anyway. Always claiming he's a dirty player when he's clearly not. He doesn't cheapshot or attempt to injure. His problems come from not backing down when he should. Especially when it comes to officials. If he could stop abusing officials, he'd cut his penalty minutes in half. The concern has never been how he treats other players. He plays hard and likes to fight. There's nothing wrong with that. Our coaching staff likes that. The reason he's run into problems at the NHL level, so far, is because he doesn't show any respect to officials who resent him for it. They don't even like it when veteren players show them up. When a rookie does it, he gets tossed. It was that simple. I think Danny will learn to show more respect to the officials as he grows up and gains experience and the officials will learn to respect Danny more as he grows up and gains experience. This problem takes care of itself, in my opinion.

Why do Pittsburgh fans always want to tell Coyotes fans who Dan Carcillo is? How many times have you seen him play in the NHL versus how many times we have? Most of the time you guys have no clue what you are talking about, anyway. Always claiming he's a dirty player when he's clearly not. He doesn't cheapshot or attempt to injure. His problems come from not backing down when he should. Especially when it comes to officials. If he could stop abusing officials, he'd cut his penalty minutes in half. The concern has never been how he treats other players. He plays hard and likes to fight. There's nothing wrong with that. Our coaching staff likes that. The reason he's run into problems at the NHL level, so far, is because he doesn't show any respect to officials who resent him for it. They don't even like it when veteren players show them up. When a rookie does it, he gets tossed. It was that simple. I think Danny will learn to show more respect to the officials as he grows up and gains experience and the officials will learn to respect Danny more as he grows up and gains experience. This problem takes care of itself, in my opinion.

Maybe because other people have seen Carcillo be unable to control himself before despite being asked by management to do so? meanwhile you guys continue to preach to us how he is going to settle down and work on his hockey skills etc, the fact that Carcillo has skills isnt a new revelation hence why people have tried to settle him down in the past and it hasnt worked. I also didnt suggest he cheapshots or anything like that, many of his penalties are just completely stupid yet he still hasnt learned that.

Maybe because other people have seen Carcillo be unable to control himself before despite being asked by management to do so? meanwhile you guys continue to preach to us how he is going to settle down and work on his hockey skills etc, the fact that Carcillo has skills isnt a new revelation hence why people have tried to settle him down in the past and it hasnt worked.

The question though is do you want Carcillo to settle down? He's at his best when he's driving people nuts. Carcillo reminds me a lot of a young Rick Tocchet. If you look at Tocchet's progession as a player, he was a very similar style player to that of Carcillo. Carcillo will settle down a bit as he gets older.

As well, I don't know where the Avery comparisons come from. Unlike Avery, Carcillo does not go out looking for the smallest player on the ice to fight with. Avery does. Carcillo doesn't need to hide behind anyone and does his own dirty work. Avery doesn't. Carcillo is a legitimate tough guy with a good skill set. I have to agree with RT in that Fedoruk and McGrattan being brought in will lighten the load on Carcillo and he will be able to focus on playing hockey.

The question though is do you want Carcillo to settle down? He's at his best when he's driving people nuts. Carcillo reminds me a lot of a young Rick Tocchet. If you look at Tocchet's progession as a player, he was a very similar style player to that of Carcillo. Carcillo will settle down a bit as he gets older.

As well, I don't know where the Avery comparisons come from. Unlike Avery, Carcillo does not go out looking for the smallest player on the ice to fight with. Avery does. Carcillo doesn't need to hide behind anyone and does his own dirty work. Avery doesn't. Carcillo is a legitimate tough guy with a good skill set. I have to agree with RT in that Fedoruk and McGrattan being brought in will lighten the load on Carcillo and he will be able to focus on playing hockey.

Ofcourse you want him to settle down the idiot racks up penalty minutes on stupid crap like pushing around officials. If the Avery comparison was directed at me I wasnt comparing them at all I was saying that Carcillo makes Avery look like a Lady Byng winner because of all the stupid penalties he takes, Carcillo is far from worthy of being compared to Avery, Avery is much more effective and beneficial to a team than a guy who had 324 penalty minutes in 57 games. I really dont see how so many on HF have this mancrush on a guy who takes 324 penalty minutes in 57 games to put this in perspective Avery had 154 in 57 games. These 324 penalty minutes also were for a team ranked 24th in the league in pk percentage.

Ofcourse you want him to settle down the idiot racks up penalty minutes on stupid crap like pushing around officials. If the Avery comparison was directed at me I wasnt comparing them at all I was saying that Carcillo makes Avery look like a Lady Byng winner because of all the stupid penalties he takes, Carcillo is far from worthy of being compared to Avery, Avery is much more effective and beneficial to a team than a guy who had 324 penalty minutes in 57 games. I really dont see how so many on HF have this mancrush on a guy who takes 324 penalty minutes in 57 games to put this in perspective Avery had 154 in 57 games. These 324 penalty minutes also were for a team ranked 24th in the league in pk percentage.

HE WAS A ROOKIE. ROOOOOKIEEEEEE. :shakehead

HE WAS A ROOKIE. ROOOOOKIEEEEEE. :shakehead

Since when was being a rookie an excuse for pushing around officials? have you even seen his penalty numbers before he hit the NHL? its not like this was his first season of hockey and didnt know the rules lol.

Maybe because other people have seen Carcillo be unable to control himself before despite being asked by management to do so? meanwhile you guys continue to preach to us how he is going to settle down and work on his hockey skills etc, the fact that Carcillo has skills isnt a new revelation hence why people have tried to settle him down in the past and it hasnt worked. I also didnt suggest he cheapshots or anything like that, many of his penalties are just completely stupid yet he still hasnt learned that.

You haven't seen a thing. He played a couple of partial seasons for your minor league affiliate and not one single game for your team. Quit acting the expert.

You haven't seen a thing. He played a couple of partial seasons for your minor league affiliate and not one single game for your team. Quit acting the expert.

So because I say Carcillo has skills but takes stupid penalties I have now proven I have not seen a thing lol..

Since when was being a rookie an excuse for pushing around officials? have you even seen his penalty numbers before he hit the NHL? its not like this was his first season of hockey and didnt know the rules lol.

Being a rookie excuses mistakes. You're telling me you've been hanging around a website called hockeysfuture for this long and have never heard of rookie mistakes. Guys settle down, learn, and get better. Thats generally how things have always worked. You know this just as well as everyone else, as it's plainly common knowledge. You just refuse to acknowledge it because your team got hosed in a trade and gave up on a badass player for a big worthless teddy bear. I'm sorry that your team made a terrible trade. Get over it.

So because I say Carcillo has skills but takes stupid penalties I have now proven I have not seen a thing lol..

How many hockey games have you watched this particular player play in? Maybe none? None at all? Just going off of his stat lines and second hand info?

Sometimes rookies improve there weak points over time. Why should Carcillo be any different?

Being a rookie excuses mistakes. You're telling me you've been hanging around a website called hockeysfuture for this long and have never heard of rookie mistakes. Guys settle down, learn, and get better. Thats generally how things have always worked. You know this just as well as everyone else, as it's plainly common knowledge. You just refuse to acknowledge it because your team got hosed in a trade and gave up on a badass player for a big worthless teddy bear. I'm sorry that your team made a terrible trade. Get over it.

Lmao since when are things like pushing around officials rookie mistakes? you dont acknowledge the fact that Carcillo has been asked to settle down many times before and he hasnt done it. Theres a difference between the rookie mistakes that guys make when they are adjusting to the NHL game and a guy who comes in and takes 324 penalty minutes in 57 games. Rookie mistakes are about adjusting to the NHL level of skill and speed not adjusting to the rules of a game you have already been playing for years. Also Pittsburgh got what we needed out of that trade protection for Sid I would never go back on that deal, not atleast until Carcillo proves he isnt a moron.

How many hockey games have you watched this particular player play in? Maybe none? None at all? Just going off of his stat lines and second hand info?

Sometimes rookies improve there weak points over time. Why should Carcillo be any different?

Sometimes rookies show a willingness to improve on their faults, Carcillo has been asked to work on cutting down penalties before and yet he hasnt. You keep trying to use the rookie excuse but rookies know you dont yap back at officials, rookies know you dont shove around officials they have been playing the game for years and Carcillo has been racking up stupid penalties for years he knew full well the NHL would be no different its no excuse. Oh wait sorry I didnt know you cant shove officials in the NHL im a rookie, yeah right.

The NHL needs more guys like Carcillo IMO

The NHL needs more guys like Carcillo IMO

IMO teams can bring in all the Carcillos they want so the Pens powerplay can torch their stupid penalties all night.

Don't worry about it RT he's just a bitter fan who's team gave up a future 25 goal scorer and one of the better pound for pound fighters in the league, as well as a 3rd round pick. As you put it, Laraque is just a plain o teddy bear who doesn't want to hurt people so he hugs them all the time. There's no reasoning with him so I suggest you stop wasting your time and just let it play out. Most of the other Pens fans that were talking like him have seemed to vanished unlike this one.

Don't worry about it RT he's just a bitter fan who's team gave up a future 25 goal scorer and one of the better pound for pound fighters in the league, as well as a 3rd round pick. As you put it, Laraque is just a plain o teddy bear who doesn't want to hurt people so he hugs them all the time. There's no reasoning with him so I suggest you stop wasting your time and just let it play out. Most of the other Pens fans that were talking like him have seemed to vanished unlike this one.

Theres no reasoning with me yet I bring up valid points such as the fact that Carcillo has been asked in the past to tone down his actions and yet all I get in response is some excuse of how they are rookie mistakes despite the fact he has been making them his whole career? ill be thrilled for Danny if he someday gets his penalty minutes down to like 150-200 odd and puts up 25 goals, until then I dont see what they hype is in a guy who puts up such stupid penalty numbers.

IMO teams can bring in all the Carcillos they want so the Pens powerplay can torch their stupid penalties all night.

as much as that would make me happy, I would also like to see the pens with a carcillo type player as well. NHL has gotten way too pacified, there needs to be more quality players with mean streaks, on a seperate topic the instigator penalty needs to get dumped in the garbage where it belongs.

Wait, wait, wait...hold the phone...are you saying a teenager didn't do what he was told? :shakehead

as much as that would make me happy, I would also like to see the pens with a carcillo type player as well. NHL has gotten way too pacified, there needs to be more quality players with mean streaks, on a seperate topic the instigator penalty needs to get dumped in the garbage where it belongs.

Quality players with mean streaks yes, quality players with stupid streaks no. I think everyone here can agree the instigator needs to go though :)

Wait, wait, wait...hold the phone...are you saying a teenager didn't do what he was told? :shakehead

Wait, wait, wait, were you trying to use the fact he was a rookie as an excuse for shoving around an official? :shakehead

Quality players with mean streaks yes, quality players with stupid streaks no. I think everyone here can agree the instigator needs to go though :)

I think you are being a little harsh on the guy and yes I think Phoenix is pumping up his value to astronomical heights but he isnt a Hollweg or anything. Sometimes passionate players are what the league needs, it makes things interesting. He seems to be one of the few throwback players in a time where there are way too many "new NHL'rs". Plus the fans love him, he sells tickets and keeps interest in a team that really needs all the support it can get, I hardly see that as a bad thing, and if they "tamed" him you might run the risk of just homogenizing him into a regular NHL that really isnt nearly as interesting as he once was.

I personally think Carcillo showed that he was willing to tone down at the end of the season when he was racking up some goals. He also personally said that he needs to calm him game down in some interviews on the official Coyotes website.

I don't know about you but when a player personally admits he needs to calm his game down, I think he intends to do so, regardless of what he did in the past.

I personally think Carcillo showed that he was willing to tone down at the end of the season when he was racking up some goals. He also personally said that he needs to calm him game down in some interviews on the official Coyotes website.

I don't know about you but when a player personally admits he needs to calm his game down, I think he intends to do so, regardless of what he did in the past.

It will be cool if he does, I love his character I like what he brings APART from the stupid penalties, I am just very skeptical about whether he can do it or not, I am by no means bitter about the deal I am happy for any former Penguin or part of the Pens organization that does well, aslong as it isnt against us ;)

I think you are being a little harsh on the guy and yes I think Phoenix is pumping up his value to astronomical heights but he isnt a Hollweg or anything.

Where did you get this comment from, I see him as a 20+ goal scoring agitator. If Carcillo didn't get injured last year he was on his way to coming close to those numbers as a rookie I see no Phoenix fan pumping his value much past that. Just defending him as a sane person who has showed a willingness to calm his emotions down down and concentrate more on the offensive side of the game. Some other people fail to realize this.

Where did you get this comment from, I see him as a 20+ goal scoring agitator. If Carcillo didn't get injured last year he was on his way to coming close to those numbers as a rookie I see no Phoenix fan pumping his value much past that. Just defending him as a sane person who has showed a willingness to calm his emotions down down and concentrate more on the offensive side of the game. Some other people fail to realize this.

Earlier in the thread when people were actually talking about the trade value....

Earlier in the thread when people were actually talking about the trade value....

I just read the thread over again and all I see is people arguing about the same thing as when Carcillo was traded to Phoenix in the first place. He will never be a good player because he is a psychopath yadda yadda so on and so forth. It gets kind of old. I guess we will just have to look at this a few years from now, which most of the threads on these boards arguments end up being anyways.

Wait, wait, wait, were you trying to use the fact he was a rookie as an excuse for shoving around an official? :shakehead

Yup. He was young and dumb and pushed one official, one time, and will almost certainly never do it again during the rest of his entire career.

Theres no reasoning with me yet I bring up valid points such as the fact that Carcillo has been asked in the past to tone down his actions and yet all I get in response is some excuse of how they are rookie mistakes despite the fact he has been making them his whole career?

He's been young his whole career, and in the NHL for all of one year. With him actually begining to get it, understanding what he can and can't do, and begining to tone it down and focus on hockey during the last little bit of that season. This is something you'd know if you actually watched him play, instead of just making **** up in your head. For instance, in the last five games of the season, he saw an increase in minutes and scored five goals, while recieving only sixteen minutes in penalties(which seems like a lot but is like 200PIMs below his pace to that point). I'd say that five goals in his last five games, and a significant drop in his penalty rate bodes well for the future of a young rookie. Like maybe he's going in the right direction and is actually capable of learning and improving. Like he's a human being and not the crazed, dumb, animal incapable of ever changing like you seem to think he is.

Hows that for your little argument about him being asked to change, and not changing? Coyotes asked him to change, and he sure did. At least to close out the season.

He's been young his whole career, and in the NHL for all of one year. With him actually begining to get it, understanding what he can and can't do, and begining to tone it down and focus on hockey during the last little bit of that season. This is something you'd know if you actually watched him play, instead of just making **** up in your head. For instance, in the last five games of the season, he saw an increase in minutes and scored five goals, while recieving only sixteen minutes in penalties(which seems like a lot but is like 200PIMs below his pace to that point). I'd say that five goals in his last five games, and a significant drop in his penalty rate bodes well for the future of a young rookie. Like maybe he's going in the right direction and is actually capable of learning and improving. Like he's a human being and not the crazed, dumb, animal incapable of ever changing like you seem to think he is.

Hows that for your little argument about him being asked to change, and not changing? Coyotes asked him to change, and he sure did. At least to close out the season.

Your treating 5 games as if its a good enough sample size to support an argument, enough said.

Your treating 5 games as if its a good enough sample size to support an argument, enough said.

I didn't just grab some random five games. It's the LAST five games. The most recent. That's the point.

I didn't just grab some random five games. It's the LAST five games. The most recent. That's the point.

Again 5 games is not a big enough sample size to prove anything.

It proves nothing. It suggests he was beginning to change towards the end of the season. He just ran out of games to play.

BTW, speaking of five game sample sizes. His five most penalized games account for 40% of his total penalties in minutes. If you can contain him in just those five games alone, and keep him from totally going over the edge, just those five times, you'd cut his PIMs nearly in half, right there. So even if he's plays right on the edge, even crossing it here and there, all you'd have to do is keep him from totally losing his mind, just a few times a year, and you'd see he penaly numbers come crashing way down towards earth. It doesn't seem that hard. I think age and experience alone will greatly solve the problem. That and having Wayne Gretzky telling you to knock it off won't hurt either, I'm sure.

I don't think most of his PIMs left the team short handed (I might be wrong, but I'm willing to bet atleast 50% of the PIMs came in offsetting majors and the misconducts which inflated his total).
There is no question that he needs to become more disciplined to be at his best. However, even if he never improved at all in that regard, I'd still take his production and passion as a fourth liner. Even with all the games he got tossed early, his stats project to 18gs and 34pts over a full season. With no improvement in skill or PIM total. That's very solid for a 4th liner.
The question is can he develop into more than that and be a top 6 player or dependable 3rd liner. No question in my mind he can, though there are reasons to doubt he will.