Eklund: Bruins Shopping for D

Purely for discussion purposes...

The Bruins are in the market for a D-man and have had talks with Edmonton I am told...

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=16756&blogger_id=1

Who would you guys try to nab from the Oil?

Sheldon Souray.:sarcasm:

This would be perfect
1st round pic in 09 for

Lubomir Visnovsky
GP G A P +/-
82 8 33 41

Just what we need

Most won't like this.......but...............my gut tells me if Kessel can bring a top 4 Dman he will be gone.

Too many forwards and something just doesn't seem right...

Most won't like this.......but...............my gut tells me if Kessel can bring a top 4 Dman he will be gone.

Too many forwards and something just doesn't seem right...


This may be, but I don't think it'll be Edmonton in that case. They just don't have any blueliners that would make the bruins any better than they are currently and none that are worthy of a Kessel-type return.

If we trade Kessel, it better be for someone young and of equal value. Visnovsky does not fit into that category.

Most won't like this.......but...............my gut tells me if Kessel can bring a top 4 Dman he will be gone.

Too many forwards and something just doesn't seem right...

I've had the same feeling Wally, I just keep trying to push it out of my head...:banghead:

I would love to add Souray....

Most won't like this.......but...............my gut tells me if Kessel can bring a top 4 Dman he will be gone.

Too many forwards and something just doesn't seem right...

I've had the same feeling Wally, I just keep trying to push it out of my head...:banghead:

For the most part, I agree - but two things with this (and maybe I don't have my facts straight):

1) Doesn't Edmonton have decent forward depth as it is?

2) I see most of our prospects as good second/third line players once they hit their peaks - Kessel (at least to me) is one of the only 'kids' that has upper-echelon talent; he just needs to put it all together... (but that's just me)

See, when I think of our forward log-jam, I don't see Kessel as something that is clogging up the lines, the ranks, the flow...whatever...

If I'm not making sense, just let me know.

Cheers,

This would be perfect
1st round pic in 09 for

Lubomir Visnovsky
GP G A P +/-
82 8 33 41

Just what we need

Not impossible, but I really doubt Edmonton would move him. They just got him from LA in June for Stolle and Greene.

I bet Boston is indeed looking for D, but this talk of Edmonton is just that. I'm sure Chia has had a D-man conversation with just about every team out there. We do have a lot of forwards stockpiled, it seems.

Most won't like this.......but...............my gut tells me if Kessel can bring a top 4 Dman he will be gone.

Too many forwards and something just doesn't seem right...

I have the same feeling Wally...we have a glut of forwards and some (Sobotka and Noke, especially) seem ready and too talented for Providence; however that's where they'll end up if we have Schaefer, Yelle, Axe, in Boston. If those guys are immovable, or don't bring back what we need, I see Kessel moving as well.

well to be honest, I'd be shopping looch. As much as I love him they need to look at the club and say ok, we have Krejci, Lucic, Kessel, Stuart all due for a big raise. One of them is the odd man out, and Lucic has the highest trade value out of all of them with the smallest ceiling.

well to be honest, I'd be shopping looch. As much as I love him they need to look at the club and say ok, we have Krejci, Lucic, Kessel, Stuart all due for a big raise. One of them is the odd man out, and Lucic has the highest trade value out of all of them with the smallest ceiling.

from a point/production view I absolutely agree that Lucic has the lowest ceiling.

But from the view of trying to establish a team identity I would submit Looch has the highest ceiling of those named and it would need to be a king's ransom to get Neely to buy in to a deal.

well to be honest, I'd be shopping looch. As much as I love him they need to look at the club and say ok, we have Krejci, Lucic, Kessel, Stuart all due for a big raise. One of them is the odd man out, and Lucic has the highest trade value out of all of them with the smallest ceiling.
Um, no.

For a reason look no further than the 'Town Hall Meeting' with STHs last week.

kthx

from a point/production view I absolutely agree that Lucic has the lowest ceiling.

But from the view of trying to establish a team identity I would submit Looch has the highest ceiling of those named and it would need to be a king's ransom to get Neely to buy in to a deal.

Wally beat me to it. Lucic is becoming the face of the franchise and that goes beyond what he can do on the ice. I think Lucics production on the ice is extremely limited - he isnt a great skater and I cant see him scoring 30 goals. His physical play is his strength. Kessel is the obvious one to trade - huge ceiling and Kessel oozes the "if I got him in my system he would net 40" that GM's love.

Um, no.

For a reason look no further than the 'Town Hall Meeting' with STHs last week.

kthx

This game is all about asset management. If Edmonton offered Schremp, Petry and Vis we'd take it in a second. We have to look at it as a business and the team just can't afford all the young guys over the next few years.

Souray is not a puck-mover. He got a big shot. Chara has a bigger shot. Useless for us.

Visnovsky is a puck-mover, but with the cap consideration, we need to free about 5$M in cap space to bring him in. Wont be him too.

Smid seem a better fit, low cap hit. And a puck-moving defenseman. Personnally, i am not ready to trade Phil for Smid, but i'm a big kessel fan.

that would be pretty ironic i think to add souray, after acquiring ryder and all. im not a big fan of souray in terms if playing defense, but i think he MIGHT have a better shooting % than wideman :sarcasm: he might!

i also fear that kessel could be going. hes great bait, and boston has an abundance of forward depth. scary thoughts!

This game is all about asset management. If Edmonton offered Schremp, Petry and Vis we'd take it in a second. We have to look at it as a business and the team just can't afford all the young guys over the next few years.
I'm glad you aren't wearing PC's GM hat.

well to be honest, I'd be shopping looch. As much as I love him they need to look at the club and say ok, we have Krejci, Lucic, Kessel, Stuart all due for a big raise. One of them is the odd man out, and Lucic has the highest trade value out of all of them with the smallest ceiling.


Doesn't mean anyone is the odd man out. Kessel & Krejci are due 09/10, where Lucic/Stuart are due 10/11.

In 09/10;

Axelsson - UFA
Alberts - UFA
Yelle - UFA
Hnidy - UFA
Thomas - UFA
Fernandez - UFA
Reich - UFA

That's over $10M in UFA. Some will be signed again, some will not (if they aren't moved ahead of time). There are also a few others who could be dangled at the deadline to shed a little bit of cash for off-season RFA's - not to mention the salary cap may rise again.


If anything, we trade for a D based on the need for the positional strength, rather than dollar figures.

What if it was Visnovsky and Schremp coming back for Kessel and Schaefer (salary)?

Visnovsky is the top four defenseman, and Kessel is an overpayment to get him, but not if Schremp (Kessel minus the wheels) is coming back.

This game is all about asset management. If Edmonton offered Schremp, Petry and Vis we'd take it in a second. We have to look at it as a business and the team just can't afford all the young guys over the next few years.

Lucic isn't going anywhere.

Doesn't mean anyone is the odd man out. Kessel & Krejci are due 09/10, where Lucic/Stuart are due 10/11.

In 09/10;

Axelsson - UFA
Alberts - UFA
Yelle - UFA
Hnidy - UFA
Thomas - UFA
Fernandez - UFA
Reich - UFA

That's over $10M in UFA. Some will be signed again, some will not (if they aren't moved ahead of time). There are also a few others who could be dangled at the deadline to shed a little bit of cash for off-season RFA's - not to mention the salary cap may rise again.


If anything, we trade for a D based on the need for the positional strength, rather than dollar figures.

Umm noo? Kessel,Krejci are RFA's after this season.

Lucic isn't going anywhere.
Visnovsky won't be flipped either.

This game is all about asset management. If Edmonton offered Schremp, Petry and Vis we'd take it in a second. We have to look at it as a business and the team just can't afford all the young guys over the next few years.

It's also about marketing. You trade Lucic, even for a better return, it will leave the city scrating their head. Especially if the names of the players are not very well know.

Example:

Is Lucic a better player than Savard? No. Does Lucic sell more tickets than Savard? Absolutly.

Lucic is the kind of guy that will do the talk show ciruit in this city for years to come. He will be the one they push into the media spotlight because he is what the Bruins want to regain, the image that they once had.

By this analysis, I would say Kessel would be traded way before Lucic. Kessel like it or not is that type of player this town loves to hate. He has great moves but is not a physical presence who has been known to take nights off. Sure he may put more numbers up on the board than Lucic, but he has character flaws. If we know anything about this town is that character flaws do not bode well for popularity in this town. It may work in Montreal, but not here.

I doubt Lowe is looking to move Visnovsky after aquiring him only a few months ago.

If there were any truth to the rumor (we are talking Eklund here), I'd guess these "talks" would have the makings of a minor deal involving a guy like Grebeshkov.

well to be honest, I'd be shopping looch. As much as I love him they need to look at the club and say ok, we have Krejci, Lucic, Kessel, Stuart all due for a big raise. One of them is the odd man out, and Lucic has the highest trade value out of all of them with the smallest ceiling.

You're kidding me....

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h135/Dustingood1/Permabanned.gif

1. The only player that fits a need, on Edmonton, is Tom Gilbert.
2. Tom Gilbert makes 4m/yr.
3. Tom Gilbert isn't worth a Kessel.
4. Unless 4m+ is going out, it isn't happening.
5. Vancouver would be a better partner.
6. Stop reading Dwayne Keith Klessel and his dog.

I don't see Kessel as part of the log jam at forward. I would say the log jam is amongst fourth liners, with Schaeffer, Axelson, Thornton and the youngsters. Also I don't get the point of trading Kessel for defense. Our biggest weaknesses are goal scoring and transition D. If we trade Kessel for a puck mover on the back end, we might fill one weakness, but further inhibit our scoring. Kessel is the closest thing we got to gamebreaking offensive talent and although he hasn't gotten there yet, he is already one of our better goal scorers. I think Kessel has much more confidence after the playoffs and worlds so he is bringing back a Shea Weber type defenseman(which he won't), I wouldn't move him. I would look at maybe moving Kobasew + and see what we get.

With regards to which forwards to move, I think we need to consider unique roles that some young players fill for the team, and consider them moveable only under duress. Kessel has by far the highest offensive upside, Lucic a unique and desired big player game, Krecji, top 2 Center potential. I don't see readily available replacements for those guys. The prospects I think are at risk are the smaller speedsters, Marchand, Sobotka, Noki, Hamill, Karsums types. Nate Thompson is a definite, I had read if he doesn't make the club he needs to clear waivers to go down. We could lose 1 or 2 of those guys without batting an eyelash because we have ready replacements.

However, given that all these guys make entry level salaries and the Bruins have little cap space, moving of some contracts is necessary to field room for a top 4 defenseman. Perhaps Ferrence or Hnidy as part of upgrading defense (the defenseman + a prospect). Personally I don't think the Bruins will be looking for 1 for 1 swaps generally, but are looking to upgrade by trading multiple players for the best player.

If PC is shopping for a D man, he'll be chatting with most clubs, I'm not going to speculate on an Edmonton-only scenario given the little credence I give to Eklands sources. (personally I think he went to water boy school, and those are his contacts)

Umm noo? Kessel,Krejci are RFA's after this season.

Exactly. I said Kessel and Krejci are due in 09/10, which is after this season.

I think many here underrate Lucic's offensive potential. The kid will never pot 50 goals in 50 games like Neely, but IMO, he's a lock to eventually put up 20-25-45, and may top out even better, say 25-30-55.

After January 1, he put up 19 points in 43 games, a 36 point pace, and he was 19 years old. 19 years old..... Most players don't even have a sniff of the NHL at 19 years old. With his work ethic, I expect substantial improvement.

Just saying look at David Krejci, Mark Stuart, and Phil Kessel to maybe be changing their settings in the near future for a top tier puck moving defenseman.

Just saying look at David Krejci, Mark Stuart, and Phil Kessel to maybe be changing their settings in the near future for a top tier puck moving defenseman.

I could see it for sure, as it's becoming obvious we wont be able to compete with the RFA offer sheets that could be thrown at these guys. Especially Mark Stuart (very underrated). I just think we'd get a much better return for looch then any of these guys.

Just saying look at David Krejci, Mark Stuart, and Phil Kessel to maybe be changing their settings in the near future for a top tier puck moving defenseman.


How can we afford a top tier defenseman? I wouldn't be happy about any of those guys being traded, but would depend on the return obviously.

How can we afford a top tier defenseman? I wouldn't be happy about any of those guys being traded, but would depend on the return obviously.

probably a young puck mover with controled cap hit. LA have a lot of young dman (Hickey, Johnson, Doughty)

I could see it for sure, as it's becoming obvious we wont be able to compete with the RFA offer sheets that could be thrown at these guys. Especially Mark Stuart (very underrated). I just think we'd get a much better return for looch then any of these guys.
Mark Stuart's current contract is up at the end of the 2010 season. This is not an issue now.

What about making a pitch to Toronto for Kaberle? He has a reasonable contract at $4.5and the Leafs could take a couple of prospects off of our hands along with some of our salary in the form of Schaefer.

What about making a pitch to Toronto for Kaberle? He has a reasonable contract at $4.5and the Leafs could take a couple of prospects off of our hands along with some of our salary in the form of Schaefer.

We have to come up with close to the full 4.5.


The B's are near the max. So prospects and picks won't get deals done.

Just saying look at David Krejci, Mark Stuart, and Phil Kessel to maybe be changing their settings in the near future for a top tier puck moving defenseman.

That would have to be a no bull****, bonafide "top tier" puck mover. All of the Lucic discussions aside, those are the top three young talents this team has.

Call me crazy, but the player I think would have the biggest long term loss impact out of those 3 is Stuart. He will be a stud defenseman in this league for a long, long time IMO.

I personally think the chances of this happening are zero (I'll come back and say I was wrong if I have to, too).

That would have to be a no bull****, bonafide "top tier" puck mover. All of the Lucic discussions aside, those are the top three young talents this team has.

Call me crazy, but the player I think would have the biggest long term loss impact out of those 3 is Stuart. He will be a stud defenseman in this league for a long, long time IMO.

I personally think the chances of this happening are zero (I'll come back and say I was wrong if I have to, too).

I agree on Stuart... unless Kessel finally comes out of his shell. But I really see the Bruins trying get rid of one of these guys (or a combo of them) in order to bring in another top player to the point. It honestly doesn't make sense to me but the current roster makes no sense otherwise. The Bruins are planning something and like it or not (as history proves) we have no say in what will be done. I hope the B's go into and out of camp without making any big trades and then just re-evaluate the team after the preseason and then again at the mid-season point.

I agree on Stuart... unless Kessel finally comes out of his shell. But I really see the Bruins trying get rid of one of these guys (or a combo of them) in order to bring in another top player to the point. It honestly doesn't make sense to me but the current roster makes no sense otherwise. The Bruins are planning something and like it or not (as history proves) we have no say in what will be done. I hope the B's go into and out of camp with making any big trades and then just re-evaluate the team after the preseason and then again at the mid-season point.


So the bruins are aiming a veteran player (like Kaberle) or a young player/prospect (like Doughty)?

I cant see how they can bring a veteran player with no cap room. even if they trade/waiver schaeffer

I agree on Stuart... unless Kessel finally comes out of his shell. But I really see the Bruins trying get rid of one of these guys (or a combo of them) in order to bring in another top player to the point. It honestly doesn't make sense to me but the current roster makes no sense otherwise. The Bruins are planning something and like it or not (as history proves) we have no say in what will be done. I hope the B's go into and out of camp with making any big trades and then just re-evaluate the team after the preseason and then again at the mid-season point.

I just can't see where you are coming from, why would the Bruins trade away their future stars? It makes no sense.

I just can't see where you are coming from, why would the Bruins trade away their future stars? It makes no sense.

I truely can't understand this either, but with the rumors, word of mouth and other small hints I've heard and seen... all signs point at these players (most intrest shown in Kessel of course). There is no secret that the Bruins are willing to trade away future talent if the deal makes sense to them, so honestly anyone can specualte on who/why/when... But in the end no one knows. I honestly hopes this doesn't happen since I see Stuart and Kess tas great stars of the future for the black & gold and just think they still need time (haven't seen enough of Krecji yet). But time is running out on Kessel to meet expectations (remember the next-Crosby comparisson?) and the Bruins are starting to think of what they can get for him now before his value drops.

We have to come up with close to the full 4.5.


The B's are near the max. So prospects and picks won't get deals done.

GW is right, salary will be the x-factor in any possible deal...

I truely can't understand this either, but with the rumors, word of mouth and other small hints I've heard and seen... all signs point at these players (most intrest shown in Kessel of course). There is no secret that the Bruins are willing to trade away future talent if the deal makes sense to them, so honestly anyone can specualte on who/why/when... But in the end no one knows. I honestly hopes this doesn't happen since I see Stuart and Kess tas great stars of the future for the black & gold and just think they still need time (haven't seen enough of Krecji yet). But time is running out on Kessel to meet expectations (remember the next-Crosby comparisson?) and the Bruins are starting to think of what they can get for him now before his value drops.

Kessel is only 21 this year, no need to press the panic button just yet. IMO I don't see them dealing any one of those guys let alone a combo of them.

What rumours and hints have you been hearing and seeing? Eklund doesn't count for obvious reasons.

Kessel is only 21 this year, no need to press the panic button just yet. IMO I don't see them dealing any one of those guys let alone a combo of them.

What rumours and hints have you been hearing and seeing? Eklund doesn't count for obvious reasons.

I don't think anybody is pressing a panic button. But the kid so far doesn't seem to fit the mold in regard to playing without the puck or simply making contact. He may turn out to be a prolific scorer though. That remains to be seen. The linchpin will be what is he looking for in his next contract?
Some think anywhere from 4 to 5 million per year. That, in a salary cap world, may be to steep for a franchise alreadynear the Cap with other needs to fill next year.

I don't think anybody is pressing a panic button. But the kid so far doesn't seem to fit the mold in regard to playing without the puck or simply making contact. He may turn out to be a prolific scorer though. That remains to be seen. The linchpin will be what is he looking for in his next contract?
Some think anywhere from 4 to 5 million per year. That, in a salary cap world, may be to steep for a franchise alreadynear the Cap with other needs to fill next year.

He definatley showed that he can score this year in the playoffs. As for his next contract, it's pretty hard to tell right now but if puts up 25-30 goals for sure he's 4-5 million/year. I agree with you that he is soft, he droves me friggen nuts during the season when he would get bumped off the puck easily but i found near the end of the season this was happening less. He definately is not the model big strong Bruin but this kid has hands and is extremely talented.

He definatley showed that he can score this year in the playoffs. As for his next contract, it's pretty hard to tell right now but if puts up 25-30 goals for sure he's 4-5 million/year. I agree with you that he is soft, he droves me friggen nuts during the season when he would get bumped off the puck easily but i found near the end of the season this was happening less. He definately is not the model big strong Bruin but this kid has hands and is extremely talented.


yup................and the Bruin's have about 4 months to figure that out.
Tough to do with a sample size of one.

I truely can't understand this either, but with the rumors, word of mouth and other small hints I've heard and seen... all signs point at these players (most intrest shown in Kessel of course). There is no secret that the Bruins are willing to trade away future talent if the deal makes sense to them, so honestly anyone can specualte on who/why/when... But in the end no one knows. I honestly hopes this doesn't happen since I see Stuart and Kess tas great stars of the future for the black & gold and just think they still need time (haven't seen enough of Krecji yet). But time is running out on Kessel to meet expectations (remember the next-Crosby comparisson?) and the Bruins are starting to think of what they can get for him now before his value drops.

You have heard hints that the B's want to trade Krejci, Kessel, and Stuart? I'd check the reliability of those sources. I think Kessel could be dealt but it would have to be for a young d-man with Top 2 potential, IMO. And maybe you haven't seen enough of Krejci, but I have, and I think the B's have as well (why do you think Kalus is in Minny now instead of Krejci).

This will sound like heresy to some, but at this point, I would not be suprised if the B's value Krejci more than they do Kessel. He's not going anywhere unless it's for a top-tier d-man, and that's unlikely.

yup................and the Bruin's have about 4 months to figure that out.
Tough to do with a sample size of one.


It's also tough to do based upon stats built up over the first half of a season. Even if he puts up 15 before January, what's that really gonna' tell ya? Not much, I'm afraid. Boyes didn't "fit the mold" (although I was in favor of trading him) but would he have clicked for 40 if still with us? Dunno.

If Chia dishes Phil, even if it's for good value, and he pumps in 40 somewhere, it'll be tough to live down when the hindsight brigade gnashes teeth over losing not one, but two, top goalscorers because they didn't fit into a certain mold.

Glad I'm not a GM.

It's also tough to do based upon stats built up over the first half of a season. Even if he puts up 15 before January, what's that really gonna' tell ya? Not much, I'm afraid. Boyes didn't "fit the mold" (although I was in favor of trading him) but would he have clicked for 40 if still with us? Dunno.

If Chia dishes Phil, even if it's for good value, and he pumps in 40 somewhere, it'll be tough to live down when the hindsight brigade gnashes teeth over losing not one, but two, top goalscorers because they didn't fit into a certain mold.

Glad I'm not a GM.


The Bruins may end being between a rock and hard place trying to figure out this kid.

In regard to Boyes, I didn't like the trade. He struck me as a Gregg Sheppard/Dave Poulin type of player. The kind that you can use in all situations. I would have rather kept him and it has nothing to do with his great year last year. I didn't see that coming.

Kessel reminds me of Dmitri Kvartalnov. Soft. No "D". Could go either way. I guess it's up to the kid.

Anyone wanting Souray here has not watched a single game in their lives. :cry:

I don't see Kessel as part of the log jam at forward. I would say the log jam is amongst fourth liners, with Schaeffer, Axelson, Thornton and the youngsters. Also I don't get the point of trading Kessel for defense. Our biggest weaknesses are goal scoring and transition D. If we trade Kessel for a puck mover on the back end, we might fill one weakness, but further inhibit our scoring. Kessel is the closest thing we got to gamebreaking offensive talent and although he hasn't gotten there yet, he is already one of our better goal scorers. I think Kessel has much more confidence after the playoffs and worlds so he is bringing back a Shea Weber type defenseman(which he won't), I wouldn't move him. I would look at maybe moving Kobasew + and see what we get.

You are not kidding. We can not trade a top six forward without getting one back, not the Bruins any way. Trading Kessel could not be for a defenseman where there still remains a log jam with Schaf, Axe, Thorn and Reich.

I agree on Stuart... unless Kessel finally comes out of his shell. But I really see the Bruins trying get rid of one of these guys (or a combo of them) in order to bring in another top player to the point. It honestly doesn't make sense to me but the current roster makes no sense otherwise. The Bruins are planning something and like it or not (as history proves) we have no say in what will be done. I hope the B's go into and out of camp without making any big trades and then just re-evaluate the team after the preseason and then again at the mid-season point.

I think we saw him coming out of his shell with his play in the Playoffs and then with Team U.S.A. I'm hoping he builds on that and now has the confidence to put forth that kind of effort on a consistent basis. I still just don't see the merits in trading a 21 year old with elite offensive abilities on a goal-starved team, that lacks quality depth at the wings. The defensemen I might consider trading for him for we most likely couldn't afford anyways.

It's also tough to do based upon stats built up over the first half of a season. Even if he puts up 15 before January, what's that really gonna' tell ya? Not much, I'm afraid. Boyes didn't "fit the mold" (although I was in favor of trading him) but would he have clicked for 40 if still with us? Dunno.

If Chia dishes Phil, even if it's for good value, and he pumps in 40 somewhere, it'll be tough to live down when the hindsight brigade gnashes teeth over losing not one, but two, top goalscorers because they didn't fit into a certain mold.

Glad I'm not a GM.

I'm glad to see Boyes slide into the discussion. Anyone thinking of dishing Kessel because he's been underachieving, needs to realize that after 2 years of pro hockey Boyes had played 1 whole game in the NHL, with zero points. And since Boyes was a Junior player, I assume he played until 19 as a junior, so was actually a year older than Phil after 2 years pro. The lockout had a lot to do with it, but it wasn't until Boyes 4'th year of pro that he made a full-time lineup.

It's way too early to give up on Kessel IMO.

well to be honest, I'd be shopping looch. As much as I love him they need to look at the club and say ok, we have Krejci, Lucic, Kessel, Stuart all due for a big raise. One of them is the odd man out, and Lucic has the highest trade value out of all of them with the smallest ceiling.

Maybe from a points per game standpoint he has the lowest ceiling, but this game isn't all about points.

Just look at Chara. There are lots of dmen out there who offer much more flair and offensive creativity, but it's his physical presence and intimidation that make him more of an impact player than a guy like Markov or Kaberle. The same could eventually be true of Lucic vs Krejci/Kessel.

Many, many people were shocked by Looch last year. Get use to it. This guy will be a PLAYER. He WILL score goals. He will be a 25-35 goal guy in the league. He may even hit 40 a couple of times. He will play on the top of the crease on the power play and bang in alot of goals. He will be MUCH better than McCarty or Neil with out question. Never trade this guy!!!!!!

Edmonton has several puck movers who could fit in well here...

Grebeshkov and Smid in particular are young (cheap) improving players with top4 experience. But I wouldn't want to give up any of our good young forwards for one of them.

Another guy that could make sense is Staios. He's not great offensively, but he is excellent at puck retrieval and above average at the all-important first pass. And I bet he could be had for someone like Axe/Schaefer.

Edmonton has several puck movers who could fit in well here...

Grebeshkov and Smid in particular are young (cheap) improving players with top4 experience. But I wouldn't want to give up any of our good young forwards for one of them.

Another guy that could make sense is Staios. He's not great offensively, but he is excellent at puck retrieval and above average at the all-important first pass. And I bet he could be had for someone like Axe/Schaefer.

In a logical world, we could get Staios here, but NO WAY Edmonton trades him now. Not a chance. The way their defense is built, Staios is their biggest and most defensively sound d-man BY A LONG SHOT. They won't have a guy there that can kill penalties once he's gone.

Smid, I actually see a lot of good in, although calling him a "puck-mover" isn't totally... It isn't inaccurate per se, but it may be similar to calling Boynton a puck-mover. He's definitely not bad... But not great either. I wouldn't give up much for him.

Grebeshkov is one of the most creative dummies I've seen on a defense in some time. Tenacious too. I like him. But as Bruins fans, we'd have difficulty accepting his occasional-frequent giant brain farts.

Many, many people were shocked by Looch last year. Get use to it. This guy will be a PLAYER. He WILL score goals. He will be a 25-35 goal guy in the league. He may even hit 40 a couple of times. He will play on the top of the crease on the power play and bang in alot of goals. He will be MUCH better than McCarty or Neil with out question. Never trade this guy!!!!!!

Yeah, but you gotta admit:
We gotta get rid of this guy. I mean, you know... He's pretty lousy. I mean, he's totally peaked already. Dump the bum now while his value is high.

In a logical world, we could get Staios here, but NO WAY Edmonton trades him now. Not a chance. The way their defense is built, Staios is their biggest and most defensively sound d-man BY A LONG SHOT. They won't have a guy there that can kill penalties once he's gone.

Smid, I actually see a lot of good in, although calling him a "puck-mover" isn't totally... It isn't inaccurate per se, but it may be similar to calling Boynton a puck-mover. He's definitely not bad... But not great either. I wouldn't give up much for him.

Grebeshkov is one of the most creative dummies I've seen on a defense in some time. Tenacious too. I like him. But as Bruins fans, we'd have difficulty accepting his occasional-frequent giant brain farts.

Thanks for the insight, MMB.

With Grebeshkov, the brain-farts wouldn't bother me. That generally comes with the territory when you're talking about young, developing offensive dmen. I was a big supporter of Wideman when he first came here for that very reason, and I'd love it if Chiarelli was able to get the next Wideman (as long as this one doesn't cost Kessel).

Maybe from a points per game standpoint he has the lowest ceiling, but this game isn't all about points.

Just look at Chara. There are lots of dmen out there who offer much more flair and offensive creativity, but it's his physical presence and intimidation that make him more of an impact player than a guy like Markov or Kaberle. The same could eventually be true of Lucic vs Krejci/Kessel.

Chara is not a good comparison.
1) Chara is a defenseman and offense isn't as necessary (but he just happens to be one of the best anyway)
2) Chara is a beast DEFENSIVELY

So... Chara is one of the best IN THE LEAGUE at his position offensively- Lucic will never be able to say that.

Chara is one of the best IN THE LEAGUE at his position defensively- I think Lucic's skating flaws will keep him from being able to say that too.

Lucic is tough. He can fight. He can hit. He's a leader and popular and I don't want to trade him.

But I still contend he's vastly overrated by people on this board.

If what we give up is any of: Kessel, Krejci, Lucic,

and what we get is any of: Smid, Staios, Souray,

I'd just assume that we give the job to Lashoff instead

Chara is not a good comparison.
1) Chara is a defenseman and offense isn't as necessary (but he just happens to be one of the best anyway)
2) Chara is a beast DEFENSIVELY

So... Chara is one of the best IN THE LEAGUE at his position offensively- Lucic will never be able to say that.

Chara is one of the best IN THE LEAGUE at his position defensively- I think Lucic's skating flaws will keep him from being able to say that too.

Lucic is tough. He can fight. He can hit. He's a leader and popular and I don't want to trade him.

But I still contend he's vastly overrated by people on this board.

You add 20 goals to that (which is completely possible for the kid) and he isn't overrated, he's a vital part of the organization.

It's his offensive ability, coupled with his physical presence that makes him the perfect guy to open up the ice for your skilled players, and players like that are a rareity. So while many say he is overrated, I say he isn't valued for the right reasons by many.

Is he the next Cam Neely, I doubt it. Is he replaceable on this team... no.

No one in our organization can do what he does. Thornton can fight, but he won't be riding shotgun with Savard anytime soon. Kessel, Ryder, Kobasew, Axe, Sobotka... they can score, they can play D, some of them can even dish out the odd hit, but they aren't going to intimidate any dillholes on the ice from running Bergeron when he comes back.

Looch has the potential to be a top enforcer in this league, but an enforcer that can still play the game adequitly to fit on a scoring line. Too many people underrate that value, a value made more so by the fact that we are talking about Bruins fans.

Here's a question for everyone..

Is our defense better or worse then Toronto's.

Because I think its better, yet today I read an article in the London Free Press where Wilson stated they are deep at defense and that guys are going to be fighting for jobs.

It says Kaberle, Kubina and Finger are safe bets with Stralman, White, Van Ryn, Frogren, Colaiacovo and Kronwall going for the remaining spots. Oh and they say don't count out Schenn, but he has to knock their socks off at camp.

Personally I think our defense is better, yet I keep reading and hearing rumors that were looking at trading to fill a spot on our defense.

Just food for thought.

Most won't like this.......but...............my gut tells me if Kessel can bring a top 4 Dman he will be gone.

Too many forwards and something just doesn't seem right...



In other words, you mean Kessel for Niskanen.

- hub

This whole conversation just reminds me how much I miss Ray in Black'n'Gold...

I'm wary of them moving Kessel for a puck moving d-man as I think he is singularly the forward who would most benefit from a really good 1st pass d-man. The transition game would be great. How many off man breaks would he get in a game with his speed coming off the boards to the middle of the ice with a hash marks to centre ice tape to tape pass.

Kessel and Lucic, through styles at the complete opposite ends of the spectrum, will begin, over the next year or two, to force teams to approach and defend the B's differently. Krejci could easily become the best of the youngins but I think these two will make for some awfully great games over the next years.

Exactly. I said Kessel and Krejci are due in 09/10, which is after this season.

I understand but I kind looks like you mean they are RFA's AFTER 9/10 and you mean they are RFA's before the season starts.

Chara is not a good comparison.
1) Chara is a defenseman and offense isn't as necessary (but he just happens to be one of the best anyway)
2) Chara is a beast DEFENSIVELY

So... Chara is one of the best IN THE LEAGUE at his position offensively- Lucic will never be able to say that.

Chara is one of the best IN THE LEAGUE at his position defensively- I think Lucic's skating flaws will keep him from being able to say that too.

Lucic is tough. He can fight. He can hit. He's a leader and popular and I don't want to trade him.

But I still contend he's vastly overrated by people on this board.

And I still contend that you underrate the other aspects of his game. Being a 25 goal, 65point guy, who is also the most physically intimidating top6 forward in the game, will be one of the best players at his position. Just not in terms of goals or assists. Imagine a 6'5", 230lb, heavy-weight fighting version of Brendan Morrow. Not an elite scorer, but an impact player nonetheless.

In other words, you mean Kessel for Niskanen.

- hub

Hey Hub,

What's the word on this kid ? I looked at his stats and they seem pretty good for a 21 year old.

http://stars.nhl.com/team/app/?service=page&page=PlayerDetail&playerId=8471702

Is there a deal in the works ?

In other words, you mean Kessel for Niskanen.

- hub

Pot. Meet stirrer. ;)

In other words, you mean Kessel for Niskanen.

- hub


oh boy.

THAT is going to be a good one to toss around here.

Niskanen (dallas) has some real nice numbers for a D man..

Young, skilled.. Zubovian mold..

Hey Hub,

What's the word on this kid ? I looked at his stats and they seem pretty good for a 21 year old.

http://stars.nhl.com/team/app/?service=page&page=PlayerDetail&playerId=8471702

Is there a deal in the works ?

From what I've read there...nice...but does anyone know his cap hit ?

From what I've read there...nice...but does anyone know his cap hit ?

850K

http://www.nhlnumbers.com/overview.php?team=DAL&season=0809

Nishkanen =

ASSETS: Is an incredible athlete and superb skater. Owns huge offensive upside, but may also develop into an all-around defender that plays in all game situations.

FLAWS: Must still add more bulk to his 6-0 frame in order to better handle the physical pounding of the NHL game. Needs to improve his level of consistency.

CAREER POTENTIAL: Top four defenseman.

http://www.forecaster.ca/thestar/hockey/player.cgi?5324

7,5C On Hockeyfuture.

what about Kessel for Edler?

Sheldon Souray.:sarcasm:

Please noooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!

I don't think we have the cap space for that millstone anyways.

In other words, you mean Kessel for Niskanen.

- hub

If Dallas would do it, I think that's a deal the Bruins would say 'YES' to. Niskanen is exactly the type of D-man we need, and it's a fair swap of young, talented kids.

Kessel, Krejci and Lucic are not going anywhere for a D unless it is for a Shea Weber or Brent Burns type. These Dmen from the Oilers people are talking about like Smid, I would only give up an Axelsson or Scheafer for them with a b prospect like Thompson, otherwise no way do the B's move a top young forward.

I wouldn't mind taking a long look at Stralman either. Kids damn good. I wouldn't want to move a Kessel for him, but a Krejci I could see. We're far deeper at center then we are with young top line wingers.

I know Toronto is an unlikely trading partner, but hey it isn't like it's never happened before.

As for Kessel/Niskanen, not my cup of tea. I can't really see Dallas being interested in that either. They aren't short on scoring forwards and have both Zubov and Boucher near retirement. They'll be looking to keep any top end young defensemen.

In other words, you mean Kessel for Niskanen.

- hub

I think a few of us brought up this type of deal last year. Kessel's playoff performance, however, has me re-thinking it. Niskanen though is young, cheap and will likely be a top 3 defenseman for the next decade. Kessel, however, has the potential to be a 35 goal winger for the next decade. Decide which has more value and then decide on the trade.

The only thing that would shock me about this deal is Kessel's BFF Blake Wheeler coming here likely had something to do with Phil and it would be strange to deal him, but then again a GM's shelf life is short and if PC thought it would thrust us to the top of the East by having a stronger, more balanced D then he does it.

our issue last year was scoring, I don't think the thrill goes anywhere.

Chara is not a good comparison.
1) Chara is a defenseman and offense isn't as necessary (but he just happens to be one of the best anyway)
2) Chara is a beast DEFENSIVELY

So... Chara is one of the best IN THE LEAGUE at his position offensively- Lucic will never be able to say that.

Chara is one of the best IN THE LEAGUE at his position defensively- I think Lucic's skating flaws will keep him from being able to say that too.

Lucic is tough. He can fight. He can hit. He's a leader and popular and I don't want to trade him.

But I still contend he's vastly overrated by people on this board.


That will tend to happen when after being given no chance to make the big club as an 18yr old (conventional wisdom), the player not only makes the team, but contributes to changing the culture surrounding it.

Lucic will never be the most skilled guy (although I think his puck-handling and hands are actually very good), but he brings a lot of intangibles. I see him maxing out in the 25-30 goal range if he can continue to improve his skating (and gets PP time in front of the net). Realistically, he's probably closer to 20 goals, but that's more than enough when you consider how intimidating he can be. There is more than one way to change the flow of a game.



ps I think this is "make or break" time for Phil with the B's. What he did in the playoffs and in the WC's really showed what he is capable of doing. The question is whether or not he has the drive to go with that ability. I tend to forget how young he still is when sizing him up, but because of his contract status after this season, I think he needs to show that he is starting to get it.

Thanks for the insight, MMB.

With Grebeshkov, the brain-farts wouldn't bother me. That generally comes with the territory when you're talking about young, developing offensive dmen. I was a big supporter of Wideman when he first came here for that very reason, and I'd love it if Chiarelli was able to get the next Wideman (as long as this one doesn't cost Kessel).

Oh I agree. Like I said, I LIKE Grebeshkov.

His screw-ups were happening a little more frequently than a typical young d-man... But he shows gusto and like I said, the cat does some pretty creative stuff. He'd compliment the corps here well if Julien was able to settle him down.

I don't know what Edmonton would want for him is the only thing. Something like Alberts straight up seems to make quite a bit of sense for both sides actually.

Oh I agree. Like I said, I LIKE Grebeshkov.

His screw-ups were happening a little more frequently than a typical young d-man... But he shows gusto and like I said, the cat does some pretty creative stuff. He'd compliment the corps here well if Julien was able to settle him down.

I don't know what Edmonton would want for him is the only thing. Something like Alberts straight up seems to make quite a bit of sense for both sides actually.


I am with both of you. I would take grebeshkov too. we already have a damned tough team...but you cant punch the puck into the net so....we need some offensive creativity out there. It is the only way we will finally overpower the scabs. we need more goals!!!

Just saying look at David Krejci, Mark Stuart, and Phil Kessel to maybe be changing their settings in the near future for a top tier puck moving defenseman.

Personally I see all three of them as core players in the future of the hockey club on top of being vital in the present.

The Kessel trade stuff always boggles the mind. "He is not a true Bruin", "he is not physical enough" are the cries I hear from people. You can not win with only "hard working and physical", at some point you need pure, unbridled talent. You need game breaking players and he has all the potential to be just that.

what about Kessel for Edler?

No....Edler got exposed late in the year as he played more and more minutes.

Kessel has the skill set to be a 40 goal scorer in the league, Edler IMO will max out as a #3/4 guy.

Personally I see all three of them as core players in the future of the hockey club on top of being vital in the present.

The Kessel trade stuff always boggles the mind. "He is not a true Bruin", "he is not physical enough" are the cries I hear from people. You can not win with only "hard working and physical", at some point you need pure, unbridled talent. You need game breaking players and he has all the potential to be just that.

I couldn't say it better ;)

I think all the Kessel rumors are because a lot of teams have interest and PC is of course going to listen.

I had a dream last night about Kessel scoring a goal vs Montreal and he had an afro-type haircut as he was celebrating with the team. I've been hard on him, but I think they should keep him, especially after my dream :)

He could be the goal scorer that we need now that Murray is gone

I think all the Kessel rumors are because a lot of teams have interest and PC is of course going to listen.

I think that's half of it.

I think the other half is that the Bruins realize he's going to cost them some money and they're not sold that he is, or will, deliver the value for that money. His game is far from well-rounded, he's prone to defensive issues and he's due some decent cash in the near future. He's one of those guys, in a cap world, that teams are forced to make tough decisions on more quickly than in the past.

I think that's half of it.

I think the other half is that the Bruins realize he's going to cost them some money and they're not sold that he is, or will, deliver the value for that money. His game is far from well-rounded, he's prone to defensive issues and he's due some decent cash in the near future. He's one of those guys, in a cap world, that teams are forced to make tough decisions on more quickly than in the past.

Murphy's Law dictates that he has a breakout year, scores 28, maybe due to riding shotgun with Ryder and Savard, and makes it a very tough call as to what to do with him (for everyone except Hub) come the deadline.

In other words, you mean Kessel for Niskanen.

- hub

:laugh:

I don't think you want to go here.

I would only trade Kessel if we got a good young D-man in return.....someone mentioned Brent Burns, although I do believe Burns will ultimately be the superior player.

The on guy I really DO NOT want to see get traded is Krejci. This kid could be something special, but we haven't seen enough of him yet to determine that. Have to wait and see.


Out of Krecji, Kessel and Lucic, I believe that Krecji could end up to be the best of the three.

I think that's half of it.
I think the other half is that the Bruins realize he's going to cost them some money and they're not sold that he is, or will, deliver the value for that money. His game is far from well-rounded, he's prone to defensive issues and he's due some decent cash in the near future. He's one of those guys, in a cap world, that teams are forced to make tough decisions on more quickly than in the past.

True, but I can't imagine PC is desperate or actively shopping him. I'm sure he has thrown Phil's name out their to some GM's if he is trying to land a really valuable player. If he is offering Phil for a Shea Weber type, then I wouldn't be too upset. One the other hand, if PC doesn't see the need for a guy with Phil's offensive skills, then I would question his ability as a GM. If we had signed Hossa long term, I could understand moving Kessel to help shore up other areas, but I think Kessel's offensive talents are needed on this team. Despite bringing in Ryder and Bergeron coming back, I don't think we be a offensive juggernaut by any means and losing Kessel compounds our scoring woes. The Bruins have a ton of young talent in both the NHL and prospects and I like that PC has brought a lot of size to the system, but we need guys that can flat out score. No one else either on the Bruins or in system I would say have 40 goal potential. We have a lot of great playmakers, like Savard, Krejci, Hamill. Good two way forwards or gritty forwards like Bergeron, Kobasew, SOB, Nokie, Lucic, Marchand. But we don't have a lot of pure scorers, and the scorers we do I would label as 2nd tier scorers (under 30-35 goals max potentially) , such as Sturm, Ryder, Soderberg, Wheeler, Colborne.

True, but I can't imagine PC is desperate or actively shopping him. I'm sure he has thrown Phil's name out their to some GM's if he is trying to land a really valuable player. If he is offering Phil for a Shea Weber type, then I wouldn't be too upset. One the other hand, if PC doesn't see the need for a guy with Phil's offensive skills, then I would question his ability as a GM. If we had signed Hossa long term, I could understand moving Kessel to help shore up other areas, but I think Kessel's offensive talents are needed on this team. Despite bringing in Ryder and Bergeron coming back, I don't think we be a offensive juggernaut by any means and losing Kessel compounds our scoring woes. The Bruins have a ton of young talent in both the NHL and prospects and I like that PC has brought a lot of size to the system, but we need guys that can flat out score. No one else either on the Bruins or in system I would say have 40 goal potential. We have a lot of great playmakers, like Savard, Krejci, Hamill. Good two way forwards or gritty forwards like Bergeron, Kobasew, SOB, Nokie, Lucic, Marchand. But we don't have a lot of pure scorers, and the scorers we do I would label as 2nd tier scorers (under 30-35 goals max potentially) , such as Sturm, Ryder, Soderberg, Wheeler, Colborne.

There's really ne debate that the Bruins, like any team, need scoring, and Phil can score. Consistently? We don't know, but he can score.

The issue though is a financial one. Not to bring up a sore topic, but think back to the Thornton deal. Yes on paper MOC got screwed, but one upside to that deal was that at the time, it gave them flexibility to spend a bit more the following year.

So when it comes to Phil, you have to consider not just what he brings, but whathis salary prevents you from doing. He might be worth $5 mil a season after this year, but in a cap world with a thin defense and zero skating on defense, and maybe a goalie issue, will that $5 mil be better spent?

To me, this whole trade Kessel debate as been too heavy on the player and not heavy enough on the salary. At this point in time he's an unknown commodity with a potential huge upside. In a non-cap world or with a small contract, that's a great asset. In a cap world, you can only have so many players that aren't known commodities.

Let me give a real-life analogy: Can you do a monthly budget with any confidence if you don't know what your plans are for each of the weekends?

There's really ne debate that the Bruins, like any team, need scoring, and Phil can score. Consistently? We don't know, but he can score.

The issue though is a financial one. Not to bring up a sore topic, but think back to the Thornton deal. Yes on paper MOC got screwed, but one upside to that deal was that at the time, it gave them flexibility to spend a bit more the following year.

So when it comes to Phil, you have to consider not just what he brings, but whathis salary prevents you from doing. He might be worth $5 mil a season after this year, but in a cap world with a thin defense and zero skating on defense, and maybe a goalie issue, will that $5 mil be better spent?

To me, this whole trade Kessel debate as been too heavy on the player and not heavy enough on the salary. At this point in time he's an unknown commodity with a potential huge upside. In a non-cap world or with a small contract, that's a great asset. In a cap world, you can only have so many players that aren't known commodities.

Let me give a real-life analogy: Can you do a monthly budget with any confidence if you don't know what your plans are for each of the weekends?

Good point, but if it really is a financial concern I would wait till at least the halfway point of the season to see how he plays and analyze the finincial status. If Phil is still just showing flashes of his brillance, and not consistently...then maybe PC's hand will be forced to move him. I think season three is when a lot of players have their breakout years and after his play in the playoffs and for Team U.S.A., I think their is reason to be optimistic that he is ready to bring it on a consistent basis. I think their will still be a market for him at the deadline and I would like to see PC at least give Phil half the season to prove he will be worth his new contract, which we know will be significantly higher than his current one. I don't know about 5 million, but a lot depends on his play this year and if he signs prior to becoming an RFA. If he shows that can play up to his potential consistenly I would have no quams giving him a hefty increase.

I say a huge NO to trading krejci. he will be a pretty good player and we will need some of those. lucic is a great guy as far as sending a message, but he will never be a goal scorer (15-25 at the most). So we need guys like krejci and kessel (if he ever pans out which i believe he will).

so why does every body want to get rid of our young talent?

I say a huge NO to trading krejci. he will be a pretty good player and we will need some of those. lucic is a great guy as far as sending a message, but he will never be a goal scorer (15-25 at the most). So we need guys like krejci and kessel (if he ever pans out which i believe he will).

so why does every body want to get rid of our young talent?

I'm not sure.

I like 'em all! ;)

so why does every body want to get rid of our young talent?

Having 12 3'rd/4'th line forwards is of limited value to the Bruins, some of that surplus should be turned into upgrades in positions. For example, trade 2 or 3 of the 12 for a 3/4 defenseman, still leaving us with 9-10 3'rd/4'th line players.

see the funny thing about our defense is IT IS NOT BAD, we stopped as many pucks last year as Montreal who finished first, that was while learning the system and having some awful breakdowns that padded that stat. Offense is where we struggled last year not defense, it was our defense that got us to the playoffs, why would we trade our best natural goal scorer for more defense, puck mover or not, that player will not produce points the way Kessel is capable of doing. Our team needs to develop not get traded for short term fixes or to create a strength on D by creating a weakness offensively. I don't understand why everyone seems to think our D is so bad that we need to fix it, especially thinking that we need to get rid of Kessel to do so.

see the funny thing about our defense is IT IS NOT BAD, we stopped as many pucks last year as Montreal who finished first, that was while learning the system and having some awful breakdowns that padded that stat. Offense is where we struggled last year not defense, it was our defense that got us to the playoffs, why would we trade our best natural goal scorer for more defense, puck mover or not, that player will not produce points the way Kessel is capable of doing. Our team needs to develop not get traded for short term fixes or to create a strength on D by creating a weakness offensively. I don't understand why everyone seems to think our D is so bad that we need to fix it, especially thinking that we need to get rid of Kessel to do so.

perhaps you are forgetting what players often begin the rush up the ice?

i dont think the defense is bad, it is average. but, the system makes them look better, and at the same time its taking away from the offense i feel. the offense i think will fare MUCH better than last year (given they stay healthy), and will be an above average offense. boston has a 1 solid first pairing guy in chara, 1 solid second pairing guy in wideman, and a bunch who would be better off as a 5-6. they would benefit much more by getting a fast defenseman with some shot accuracy, cuz it aint wideman.

perhaps you are forgetting what players often begin the rush up the ice?

i dont think the defense is bad, it is average. but, the system makes them look better, and at the same time its taking away from the offense i feel. the offense i think will fare MUCH better than last year (given they stay healthy), and will be an above average offense. boston has a 1 solid first pairing guy in chara, 1 solid second pairing guy in wideman, and a bunch who would be better off as a 5-6. they would benefit much more by getting a fast defenseman with some shot accuracy, cuz it aint wideman.

First off I said the D brought in wouldnt produce the points that Kessel is capable of, the way you bolded was misleading. Ward is also a very good top 4 defenseman, and Ference was very solid prior to his injury. Is it a great top 4 certainly not, but it is not our weakness. The defense would benefit from a puck mover, but I don't think it is the need everyone makes it out to be, last year we took the #1 seed in the east to 7 games without Bergeron and Kobasew along with several key players playing injured. The goal of the D is to keep pucks out of our net, our D has been good at that the problem with O was not our lack of puck mover it was a lack of guys that could finish, toward the end of the year when we had the system down we were out shooting our opponents but we were still having trouble scoring. Giving up Kessel or any of our other top young guys is not going to fix this it is just an offensive talent to the back end which makes us just as one dimensional as we were last year.