Pronger's 99-00 season

79gp, 14g, 48a, 62p, +52

Next highest +/- on St. Louis was a +27.

How unreal was this Pronger this season? The best season by a defenseman in the past decade?

79gp, 14g, 48a, 62p, +52

Next highest +/- on St. Louis was a +27.

How unreal was this Pronger this season? The best season by a defenseman in the past decade?

Well, he did win the Hart (the only defensemen to do so since Orr), which is a pretty good indication that it was a special, special season.

79gp, 14g, 48a, 62p, +52

Next highest +/- on St. Louis was a +27.

How unreal was this Pronger this season? The best season by a defenseman in the past decade?

He was unreal in the regular season. He was also "unreal" during those playoffs, especially all the whining and crying. It was quite the spectacle. :laugh:

and this was in an era where the best forwards struggled to get a pt/game.

Are you talking about Points or +/-?

Al McInnis had 102 Points in 90-91 which is in the same decade
He also had 82 points in 93-94

Lidstrom had 20 G and 53 A in 99-00

As for +/- that is a useless stat...

Are you talking about Points or +/-?

Al McInnis had 102 Points in 90-91 which is in the same decade
He also had 82 points in 93-94

Lidstrom had 20 G and 53 A in 99-00

As for +/- that is a useless stat...

Oh, well, thanks for ruining the thread. :sarcasm:

That season was monstrous for the big man....

79gp, 14g, 48a, 62p, +52

Next highest +/- on St. Louis was a +27.

How unreal was this Pronger this season? The best season by a defenseman in the past decade?

He played over 30 minutes a game on average. Nobody has accomplished that feat since. Remarkably, Pronger averaged even more TOI/G the season before that!

Are you talking about Points or +/-?

Al McInnis had 102 Points in 90-91 which is in the same decade
He also had 82 points in 93-94



It was much easier to score during those years than in 1999-00. 99-00 was the height of the dead puck era.

Lidstrom had 20 G and 53 A in 99-00

And yet Pronger won the Norris in convincing fashion, as well as the Hart.

As for +/- that is a useless stat...

Not totally useless when one player's is so much higher than everyone else, especially when that player plays against the highest scorers from other teams .

Oh, well, thanks for ruining the thread. :sarcasm:

I thought I ruined the thread by referring to Pronger's monster playoffs that year. :D

I thought I ruined the thread by referring to Pronger's monster playoffs that year. :D

I just look up what he got in the playoffs. yeah, your comment was pretty thread-ruining too.

Pronger deserved every piece of hardware he got that year, he was lights out, hands down the best player of that year, period.

Rob Blake on the other hand...

Pronger was amazing back then, just dominant.

Don't forget that in 2005-06 Nik Lidstrom had 80 points in 80 games, just unreal for a defenceman. He was also +21.

Pronger deserved every piece of hardware he got that year, he was lights out, hands down the best player of that year, period.

Rob Blake on the other hand...

Jagr deserved the hart that year, won the scoring title playing with Kip Miller and Jan Hrdina while missing around 20 games.

Don't forget he was on the cover of NHL 2000...

He was unreal in the regular season. He was also "unreal" during those playoffs, especially all the whining and crying. It was quite the spectacle. :laugh:

i will never forget the series preview in the post-dispatch saying how pronger will neutralize the sharks forwards with "legal crosschecks." that's how good pronger was that year!

Back then I always thought he was the best dman

i will never forget the series preview in the post-dispatch saying how pronger will neutralize the sharks forwards with "legal crosschecks." that's how good pronger was that year!

And from that moment, Pronger Physics™ was born.

Yeah, in his prime Pronger was as good as any.

Plus minus is a useless stat, but Lidstrom being +400 and counting for his career is just straight up ridiculous. NHL 09-esque

Are you talking about Points or +/-?

Al McInnis had 102 Points in 90-91 which is in the same decade
He also had 82 points in 93-94

Lidstrom had 20 G and 53 A in 99-00

As for +/- that is a useless stat...

Not when it's 52.

IMO, that wasn't the best hockey of his career. The 2006 playoffs were. Not sure if I've ever seen a better post-season by a defenseman.

Don't forget that in 2005-06 Nik Lidstrom had 80 points in 80 games, just unreal for a defenceman. He was also +21.
And then he got *****slapped by Pronger in the playoffs. :yo:

I'm not saying that Pronger's season was a fluke or he didn't earn it he certainly was a force on the ice. The best player league wide I could understand some debate about so I won't argue that. His season was realistically almost a carbon copy of MacInnis' from the previous year. The only big difference is +/- which considering he averaged over 30 mins a game and the team as a whole gave up over 40 goals less well simple math takes care of that. Lets not discount Turek's performance that year.

Now that's a rudementary view for sure. But there are more factors than individual play that go into +/- and to take that stat from his year with caution. While certainly Norris quality season I'm not sure if I could say it was the best out of that decade.

Are you talking about Points or +/-?

Al McInnis had 102 Points in 90-91 which is in the same decade
He also had 82 points in 93-94

Lidstrom had 20 G and 53 A in 99-00

As for +/- that is a useless stat...

Didn't Leetch reach 104 pts. or something like that in 93-94?

Are you talking about Points or +/-?

Al McInnis had 102 Points in 90-91 which is in the same decade


As for +/- that is a useless stat...
It's not when the question was about the last decade.

Pronger's Hart and Norris exploits were largely recognzied not just due to his gaudy numbers but the fact he led the Blues to the best record that year (114 pts.) with a respectable, but not outstanding group of forwards. He had MacInnis to guide him, good two-way forwards but the D outside that pairing consisted of journeymen like Todd Rierden, Ricard Persson and grizzled vets like Jeff Finley and Dave Ellett. Nothing too impressive. And then Roman Turek in net who, no offense to him, was nothing special after St. Louis traded him to Calgary. The dominance of their system under Quenneville, helmed by the Pronger-MacInnis wrecking crew made everyone else look good. Pronger proved he could carry a team then, but had to answer his critics in 2006 when he put in what would have been a Conn Smythe performance had the Canes not won. Hell, even then he should've gotten it over Ward.

Pronger's dominance was marred only a bit because the Blues choked to San Jose in 2000 then could never get by the Wings, then were overtaken by upstart Canuck and Sharks teams before the prime of that Blues group ended (an era that began in 1997 when Keenan's ass was shown the door and 2004). Yet the Blues only gave up 165 goals, which was stingy even for then! That's nearly exactly 2 goals per game allowed which would be the second best team G.A.A. marks since 1957 (NJ's 164 GA in 82 GP in 03-04 is the best). So you can see why Pronger was such a unanimous winner in 2000. Jagr was every bit as deserving I believe, but maybe his notorious "attitude," plus missing 20 games and him winning all the scoring accolades made voters ignore him in favour of the sensational, out of left field year by Pronger (though not a shock if you'd watched him progress since arriving in St. Louis).

it's not a coincidence that his two best offensive seasons came with MacInnis and Niedermayer

Pronger's Hart and Norris exploits were largely recognzied not just due to his gaudy numbers but the fact he led the Blues to the best record that year (114 pts.) with a respectable, but not outstanding group of forwards. He had MacInnis to guide him, good two-way forwards but the D outside that pairing consisted of journeymen like Todd Rierden, Ricard Persson and grizzled vets like Jeff Finley and Dave Ellett. Nothing too impressive. And then Roman Turek in net who, no offense to him, was nothing special after St. Louis traded him to Calgary. The dominance of their system under Quenneville, helmed by the Pronger-MacInnis wrecking crew made everyone else look good. Pronger proved he could carry a team then, but had to answer his critics in 2006 when he put in what would have been a Conn Smythe performance had the Canes not won. Hell, even then he should've gotten it over Ward.

Pronger's dominance was marred only a bit because the Blues choked to San Jose in 2000 then could never get by the Wings, then were overtaken by upstart Canuck and Sharks teams before the prime of that Blues group ended (an era that began in 1997 when Keenan's ass was shown the door and 2004). Yet the Blues only gave up 165 goals, which was stingy even for then! That's nearly exactly 2 goals per game allowed which would be the second best team G.A.A. marks since 1957 (NJ's 164 GA in 82 GP in 03-04 is the best). So you can see why Pronger was such a unanimous winner in 2000. Jagr was every bit as deserving I believe, but maybe his notorious "attitude," plus missing 20 games and him winning all the scoring accolades made voters ignore him in favour of the sensational, out of left field year by Pronger (though not a shock if you'd watched him progress since arriving in St. Louis).

To be fair MacInnis only played 61 games that year which did help Pronger stand out more. By that point in his career he was split apart from Al. Not saying they wouldn't be out there from time to time but they pretty well each controlled half a game.

Didn't Leetch reach 104 pts. or something like that in 93-94?

Leetch scored 102 pts (22g, 80a) in the 91-92 season. In 92-93 he only played 36 gms, and had 36 pts (6g, 30a). In 93-94 he came back and had 79 pts (23g, 56a).

Meh, I would give it to Jagr
The pens had a disastorous record with him out of the lineup compared to him in it, plus he had something ridiculous like 96 points in 63 games, which was stupid numbers in the dead puck era

He also played in career game number 1000 today.

This was pre-wrist injury and before he became an *******. He used to be a smart defenseman, a leader, and people hated to face him. Now he simply swings his stick and elbows around and complains half the game.

How the Mighty have fallen.

I meant of the the last ten years, so not necessarily back to the early 90s.

And I normally don't put much trust in +/-, however it is very telling when Pronger is +25 higher than the next highest +/- on the team.

When combining that fact with 64 points in an era when many forwards struggled to hit that mark, I think Pronger's season was quite an accomplishment.

79gp, 14g, 48a, 62p, +52

Next highest +/- on St. Louis was a +27.

How unreal was this Pronger this season? The best season by a defenseman in the past decade?

Pronger was great, but Jagr was the real mvp that season.

IMO, that wasn't the best hockey of his career. The 2006 playoffs were. Not sure if I've ever seen a better post-season by a defenseman.


i was going to mention this... i have to say that i agree completely.

Pronger was a beast back then, but there where a lot of good d-men.
Kinda like how there are a lot of good young forwards now.