Victoria Salmon Kings ECHL

We are looking forward to next years new club Victoria Salmon Kings. We have a new arena under construction but its behind schedule so dont know what will happen. Our coach is Bryan Maxwell. Thats it. Not aware of any NHL afficiations yet. But we are still happy to be in the league and getting some pro hockey finally.

Cheers

Funny...I know a few people in Victoria, and they say the whole city is pissed off that they didn't get a WHL team, and that they could care less about the ECHL.

Funny...I know a few people in Victoria, and they say the whole city is pissed off that they didn't get a WHL team, and that they could care less about the ECHL.

Agreed.

Agreed.

Well I will attend the games because its the only game in town. Certainly the WHL would be the first choice of everyone. A lot of us are not too sure about the hockey knowledge of the ownership etc and are kind of in a wait and see mode. Could be they were in a panic mode to get a tennant for the new arena because the WHL would not agree to an expansion team or franchise transfer until after the arena was built and without that guarentee the brass went elsewhere. I predict that the ECHL will last a couple of years, then fold due to expenses and the WHL will eventually get here.

Well I will attend the games because its the only game in town.

You do have the BCHL. The Salsa just moved into the brand new Bear Mountain Arena. Don't sell the BCHL short just because it is Junior A hockey. It is a very entertaining product.



I predict that the ECHL will last a couple of years, then fold due to expenses and the WHL will eventually get here.

If by "eventually", you mean at least 7-10 years, I can go with that.

The WHL now has perfect alignment, and the league has no plans to expand anytime soon. The only hope for any non-WHL city to get a team, is relocation of another team. Relocation is possible with teams like Prince Albert, Moose Jaw and Swift Current, but they will consider markets in the WHL's Eastern Conference (Edmonton, Winnipeg, or maybe a city in Idaho, Montana or North Dakota) before coming west. The WHL doesn't want to have to move Kootenay back to the Central Division.

You do have the BCHL. The Salsa just moved into the brand new Bear Mountain Arena. Don't sell the BCHL short just because it is Junior A hockey. It is a very entertaining product.

Yes I have been to a few Salsa games. But BCHL doesn't hold the interest that a pro team or the WHL would. We only go there because its all we have. Also I am very close to the new arena whereas Bear Mountain is a drive for me. Its a pretty nice rink though. The Salso should improve now that they finally have their own digs.




If by "eventually", you mean at least 7-10 years, I can go with that.

The WHL now has perfect alignment, and the league has no plans to expand anytime soon. The only hope for any non-WHL city to get a team, is relocation of another team. Relocation is possible with teams like Prince Albert, Moose Jaw and Swift Current, but they will consider markets in the WHL's Eastern Conference (Edmonton, Winnipeg, or maybe a city in Idaho, Montana or North Dakota) before coming west. The WHL doesn't want to have to move Kootenay back to the Central Division.

You do have the BCHL. The Salsa just moved into the brand new Bear Mountain Arena. Don't sell the BCHL short just because it is Junior A hockey. It is a very entertaining product.

Yes I have been to a few Salsa games. But BCHL doesn't hold the interest that a pro team or the WHL would. We only go there because its all we have. Also I am very close to the new arena whereas Bear Mountain is a drive for me. Its a pretty nice rink though. The Salso should improve now that they finally have their own digs.




If by "eventually", you mean at least 7-10 years, I can go with that.

The WHL now has perfect alignment, and the league has no plans to expand anytime soon. The only hope for any non-WHL city to get a team, is relocation of another team. Relocation is possible with teams like Prince Albert, Moose Jaw and Swift Current, but they will consider markets in the WHL's Eastern Conference (Edmonton, Winnipeg, or maybe a city in Idaho, Montana or North Dakota) before coming west. The WHL doesn't want to have to move Kootenay back to the Central Division.

The WHL wont even discuss a frinchise until you have and arena completed and ownership in place.

Good luck with the franchise. I was visiting family in early February and was glad there was a picture on the fence to tell me that the big hole in the ground was to be a future arena. ;)

ECHL now officially will be on the west coast...long road trips for most teams, rather unusual move for a semi-semi-pro league.

I guess San Diego and Long Beach have moved off the west coast since I was last there then. Not to mention Bakersfield, Las Vegas, Anchorage, Fresno and Boise.

I guess San Diego and Long Beach have moved off the west coast since I was last there then. Not to mention Bakersfield, Las Vegas, Anchorage, Fresno and Boise.

Last I heard the season tickets were going pretty well. somewhere around 2 or 3 thousand and we dont even have any players yet, just a coach. the new arena will not be ready till Nov 15 so the club will have to open with a nice road trip.

The WHL now has perfect alignment, and the league has no plans to expand anytime soon. The only hope for any non-WHL city to get a team, is relocation of another team. Relocation is possible with teams like Prince Albert, Moose Jaw and Swift Current, but they will consider markets in the WHL's Eastern Conference (Edmonton, Winnipeg, or maybe a city in Idaho, Montana or North Dakota) before coming west. The WHL doesn't want to have to move Kootenay back to the Central Division.


I'm still hearing rumours of Tri-Cities moving to Edmonton very very soon... as in for next season. The denials from Tri-Cities are to be expected considering the team is trying to sell playoff tickets and not piss off their fans.

There definitely is the fan base in Edmonton and I'm sure they could find an arena somewhere in town next year that might not be in use much... ;) .

I cannot see the tri-cities rumor as happening as the ownership group is LOCAL and they want the team to work. they knew going into it that it would take more than one year to fix the problems that prior owners caused. I see my own seattle thunderbirds leaving first (and they also have local ownership now too)

as for the new victoria team, I don't know if it will be enough to make it profitable but there will be A LOT of people coming up from the Seattle/Tacoma area to see them play, as Victoria is a lot closer than Boise. too bad the old WCHL allowed an owner to own 2 teams or else tacoma would have a team in the ECHL now too.

I'm still hearing rumours of Tri-Cities moving to Edmonton very very soon... as in for next season. The denials from Tri-Cities are to be expected considering the team is trying to sell playoff tickets and not piss off their fans.

There definitely is the fan base in Edmonton and I'm sure they could find an arena somewhere in town next year that might not be in use much... ;) .

I cannot see the tri-cities rumor as happening as the ownership group is LOCAL and they want the team to work. they knew going into it that it would take more than one year to fix the problems that prior owners caused. I see my own seattle thunderbirds leaving first (and they also have local ownership now too).

I thought two of the owners of Tri-Cities were Glen Sather and Brian Burke? Not what I would call local ownership.

they are only two of a group of owners. I have been told that some former players who settled in the area are also in the group.
I thought two of the owners of Tri-Cities were Glen Sather and Brian Burke? Not what I would call local ownership.

Funny...I know a few people in Victoria, and they say the whole city is pissed off that they didn't get a WHL team, and that they could care less about the ECHL.


If I lived in Victoria and these fans didn't want to support the ECHL team because they were bent about not getting a WHL team... well I wouldn't want them supporting the WHL team anyway. That's a pretty ridiculous mindset anyway and they shouldn't sell the ECHL short. It's more entertaining than people probably realize and the product has only gotten better since I started following it 4 years ago.

If I lived in Victoria and these fans didn't want to support the ECHL team because they were bent about not getting a WHL team... well I wouldn't want them supporting the WHL team anyway. That's a pretty ridiculous mindset anyway and they shouldn't sell the ECHL short. It's more entertaining than people probably realize and the product has only gotten better since I started following it 4 years ago.

The thing with Victoria is that they were victim of the worst WHL owner imaginable. After his mis-managment resulted in fans abandoning the team, he moved it to Prince George, where we are seeing the same slow diminishing attendance due to this joke's inability to run a team that is not his own family show.

Since the Cougars left Victoria in 1994, the city has been starving for WHL hockey, and instead they get the ECHL....a league where 20 year-old WHL cuts can get jobs.

If I lived in Victoria and these fans didn't want to support the ECHL team because they were bent about not getting a WHL team... well I wouldn't want them supporting the WHL team anyway. That's a pretty ridiculous mindset anyway and they shouldn't sell the ECHL short. It's more entertaining than people probably realize and the product has only gotten better since I started following it 4 years ago.

well as I said earlier, the season ticket sales are going well and they already have a downtown office and sell the usual shirts, hats etc etc. They will be ok at first because of the novelty of a new team and a new arena. We will see how long the good fan base lasts over the years. They should support it but most people are more interested in major junior . The like to see the top prospects etc.

If I lived in Victoria and these fans didn't want to support the ECHL team because they were bent about not getting a WHL team... well I wouldn't want them supporting the WHL team anyway. That's a pretty ridiculous mindset anyway and they shouldn't sell the ECHL short. It's more entertaining than people probably realize and the product has only gotten better since I started following it 4 years ago.

i agree but it is the canadian mindset. they tend to belittle the hockey that they don't know about. I'm sure once they see the ECHL they will see it for what it is good hockey.

i agree but it is the canadian mindset. they tend to belittle the hockey that they don't know about. I'm sure once they see the ECHL they will see it for what it is good hockey.

It's not that we don't know about it. Honestly, can you blame Victoria fans for wanting the WHL back? Not only did the Cougars owner screw them out of a team by his lack of hockey ownership skills, the WHL is better hockey. 20 year-old WHL cuts get ECHL jobs. That speaks for itself.

It's not that we don't know about it. Honestly, can you blame Victoria fans for wanting the WHL back? Not only did the Cougars owner screw them out of a team by his lack of hockey ownership skills, the WHL is better hockey. 20 year-old WHL cuts get ECHL jobs. That speaks for itself.

I didn't say that the WHL wasn't better. I said it was good hockey. sounds like victoria had got screwed over like tacoma did. At least you are getting the ECHL where they are trying to get somewhere rather than the WCHL Which you originally were going to get where the players either had been there or were never going to get there. you would be surprised at how many sabercat fans refused to go to seattle because "they are just kids" and said the sabercats were better hockey (THEY WERE WRONG!)

I didn't say that the WHL wasn't better. I said it was good hockey. sounds like victoria had got screwed over like tacoma did. At least you are getting the ECHL where they are trying to get somewhere rather than the WCHL Which you originally were going to get where the players either had been there or were never going to get there. you would be surprised at how many sabercat fans refused to go to seattle because "they are just kids" and said the sabercats were better hockey (THEY WERE WRONG!)

Dont get the idea that we dont want the ECHL. We do. Ticket sales are going great for a team with no players and no rink yet. It will be supported and will be given a chance to win over the fans. We'll see what happens. Who knows how the owners will turn out etc etc., but for now we are behind the team.

The only complaint I have about the team is about the name and logo. I don't know one person who will rock a Salmon King jersey. It's a cartoon fish with a crown, ANYTHING else would have been better. But regardless of the logo I'll go watch the games. I know quite a few people that have purchased club seats and season tickets. Should be quite entertaining.

One of my fondest memories in hockey is from 1994 on my birthday when I saw the Victoria Cougars play the Portland Winter Hawks, in Memorial Arena. I was sad to see the Cougars leave.

Whoever said don't sell the Victoria Salsa out is right. It is exciting hockey, as these kids DO have something to play for; college scholarships. Kyle Greentree was the ONLY player to put up more points than this year's 20th overall pick in the entry draft, Mr. Travis Zajac. Greentree was a blast to watch. Now, he's headed off to Alaska-Fairbanks to play college hockey. Even on their worst nights, the Salsa played entertaining hockey. Bear Mountain Arena is beautiful, and the atmosphere is pretty spectacular too (at least at the end of the season!).

I found that as soon as people found out that we were getting a new semi-pro team, they jumped on the bandwagon without even really knowing what it is they were jumping on to. A LOT of people got season tickets based on the hype. It'll be interesting to see how much of a fan base the Salsa lose this upcoming season.

My bet: they won't lose a lot. With the Salmon Kings not playing their home opener in Save On Foods Arena/Centre til at least November, the fan base will stray, much like the Salsa's did waiting for Bear Mountain to open (JDF only held 1000 max in the bleachers, but I don't think they averaged more than 600-700/game when they played there).
I haven't heard ANYTHING about the team since they announced their cheezy name and logo, and the website doesn't help much either.

Personally, I'd rather have the WHL here. More exciting hockey with more on the line.

If I lived in Victoria and these fans didn't want to support the ECHL team because they were bent about not getting a WHL team... well I wouldn't want them supporting the WHL team anyway. That's a pretty ridiculous mindset anyway and they shouldn't sell the ECHL short. It's more entertaining than people probably realize and the product has only gotten better since I started following it 4 years ago.

You have to give Victoria fans a break here. They know what the WHL is all about, but know very very little about the ECHL. Just that it is a tier lower than the AHL, which is the top farm team, so generally, the ECHL is the place where late rounders get sent if they don't adjust to the AHL game very quickly. So for most people, the guys they are watching aren't going to be making it big in the NHL. They'll be primarily 4th liners, maybe 3rd liners.

As for the WHL, it's a chance to support the big time up and comers. Where they would see a Gilbert Brule of the Giants come play or Dion Phaneuf, guys that are headed to the NHL as likely vital cogs in their games.

Personally, I hope that if Victoria ever does get a WHL team, it will be through expansion. The Prairies deserve to have Major Junior A hockey and it would be a shame to see the Raiders, Warriors, Broncos move out.

Also, I hope one day, the WHL will cut down on the travel for these kids and perhaps split into a 10 - 12 team BC / US league and a 10 - 12 team Alberta/Sask/Manitoba league. But, that would take time and likely a reduction in schedule, not to mention a rule change in the NCAA that would allow players who play in the CHL to one day receive College Scholarships.

not to mention a rule change in the NCAA that would allow players who play in the CHL to one day receive College Scholarships.

That will never happen as long as CHL teams keep paying their players. The CHL is technically a semi-pro league under NCAA regulations, and they only give scholarships to amateur players.

That will never happen as long as CHL teams keep paying their players. The CHL is technically a semi-pro league under NCAA regulations, and they only give scholarships to amateur players.

I know, but when you consider that players only get like $100 per week, there has to be some way that the CHL can allow these kids, who are away from their homes and families to have some pocket money for some entertainment.

Maybe an agreement can be made so that instead of paying the players $100 bucks, the CHL provides things like movie tickets, coupons for DVD rentals, etc. The kind of stuff 16-20 year olds do with their $100 bucks.

I know, but when you consider that players only get like $100 per week, there has to be some way that the CHL can allow these kids, who are away from their homes and families to have some pocket money for some entertainment.

Maybe an agreement can be made so that instead of paying the players $100 bucks, the CHL provides things like movie tickets, coupons for DVD rentals, etc. The kind of stuff 16-20 year olds do with their $100 bucks.

Rookies get around $100/month. The most veteran players get paid about as much as a regular part-time, minimum wage job pays.

Having had family members billet Major Junior players before, I can tell you that things like movie tickets, DVD rentals, etc are not what most 16-20 year-old elite hockey players do with $100+ to occupy their free time.

Honestly, most of these players have parents who fuel their bank accounts with unlimited funds. (From what I have seen with the players my family members have billeted.) If their funds from the team aren't enough, they will have no problem getting money for whatever they want/need.

The WHL also has a good education program. For every year played in the league, the WHL pays for one year tuition and books at a Canadian post-secondary institution (I would think the OHL and QMJHL have something similar, if not the same). If your hockey career doesn't take off after a Major Junior career, the league will set you up with a good education. Some say that is more of a guarantee than going to the NCAA.

The only complaint I have about the team is about the name and logo. I don't know one person who will rock a Salmon King jersey. It's a cartoon fish with a crown, ANYTHING else would have been better. But regardless of the logo I'll go watch the games. I know quite a few people that have purchased club seats and season tickets. Should be quite entertaining.

Funny, almost everyone I've talked to, including those on other forums, like the Salmon Kings jersey. At any rate, most ECHL teams have "cartoonish" images in their logos.

Doing a fast lookthrough, I'd say that every team but the Dayton Bombers, Johnstown Chiefs, Wheeling Nailers, Toledo Storm, Greensboro Generals, and Roanoke Express use that sort of imagery.

Most people I know from Victoria HATE the name and logo, but say that it won't stop them from going to games.

The Save-On Foods Centre also isn't helping anything.

The Save-On Foods Centre also isn't helping anything.

Well they certainly won't be the only ECHL team with a grocery store chain with naming rights to their arena - the Grrowl play in the Bi-Lo Center, and the Falcons are in the Save Mart Center. Don't know about the Falcons, but the fans in Greenville don't seem to have a problem with the name...

I'm in Victoria, and when the team name and logo were released, I honestly didn't hear one good thing about them. I GUESS I can live with Salmon Kings, but good god, the logo is so freakin cheesy. The colours, the font, the cartoon fish wearing a crown.........brutal. It's just a huge step down from the classic "Cougars" name and logo back when we had the Dub in town.

I seriously hope the Steelies have a few games up in Victoria. I've only been once (and I was pretty young then) and i'd love to see Victoria again if I can, especially to watch a game up there.

The WHL now has perfect alignment, and the league has no plans to expand anytime soon. The only hope for any non-WHL city to get a team, is relocation of another team. Relocation is possible with teams like Prince Albert, Moose Jaw and Swift Current, but they will consider markets in the WHL's Eastern Conference (Edmonton, Winnipeg, or maybe a city in Idaho, Montana or North Dakota) before coming west. The WHL doesn't want to have to move Kootenay back to the Central Division.
I think we talked about this in another forum, but moving the Ice to Victoria would make the "perfect alignment" even more so. No more of that Kootenay playing central teams in the BC division garbage.

I seriously hope the Steelies have a few games up in Victoria. I've only been once (and I was pretty young then) and i'd love to see Victoria again if I can, especially to watch a game up there.

golfmade - circle March 9-12 on your calendar then. The Steelheads will play the Salmon Kings on the 9th, 11th, and 12th.

Well it looks as if our arena won't be built on time , and there is news that we won't be allowed to play in the arena up town because a Junior league team plays in there and they have the rights to Arena, so i'm not even sure if we'll even see a Salmon King game in Victoria in 2004.

I'm sure you'll at least get a few game toward the end of the season, or is it really that bad? That would suck.

People in Victoria need to be more open to things. It seems that from what people are saying, they don't want to give the ECHL a chance. In Atlantic City, our team might be gone next year, so if I was in Victoria, I'd feel lucky, because at least you have a team, regardless of the league.

People in Victoria need to be more open to things. It seems that from what people are saying, they don't want to give the ECHL a chance. In Atlantic City, our team might be gone next year, so if I was in Victoria, I'd feel lucky, because at least you have a team, regardless of the league.

Why would they want to give the ECHL a chance when they were robbed of a WHL team by the world's cheapest owner? Hell, people would rather watch Victoria's BCHL team, and that's Jr.A hockey.

Why aren't they giving the ECHL a chance? I bet more then half of the people in Victoria have never seen an ECHL game. And who's to say WHL is better hockey then ECHL? People need to be more open is all I'm saying.

Why aren't they giving the ECHL a chance? I bet more then half of the people in Victoria have never seen an ECHL game. And who's to say WHL is better hockey then ECHL? People need to be more open is all I'm saying.

They have no reason to be open. They know what they want...the WHL.

And I will say that WHL hockey is better than the ECHL. Some players who are cut from WHL teams get jobs in the ECHL. For example...2 seasons ago, the Prince George Cougars cut Devin Wilson. No other WHL teams wanted him, but he got on with the Anchorage Aces as a 19 year-old WHL reject after playing a few weeks in the Prince George beer leagues. Last season, he left the ECHL for a chance to play as a 20 year-old with Everett, a WHL expansion team.

You can't judge the skill level of an entire league 2 players. For years, the Aces were at the bottom of the WCHL, so, that's not really a good comparison. Look at a team like... well, my team, Atlantic City. 2003 Kelly Cup Championship and the majority of the team (with the exception of a few vets) were all called up to the AHL. Two from that team made it into the NHL.

Well, as it stands now, we won't be seeing an ECHL game for awhile.
I am all for the Salsa/Bear Mountain for not allowing the Salmon Kings to play in the arena (did they really say no?)...hell they had to endure Archie Browning and JDF while being bounced between Memorial and finally waiting for Bear Mountain. Why should they (and the JDF minor hockey) lose out on ice slots because the stupid Save on Foods Centre isn't finished on time (like I'm sure we all predicted AGES ago). I'm aware I don't sound that enthused, but do I really have any reason to be? Maybe the Salmon Kings can play at Archie Browning?

You can't judge the skill level of an entire league 2 players. For years, the Aces were at the bottom of the WCHL, so, that's not really a good comparison. Look at a team like... well, my team, Atlantic City. 2003 Kelly Cup Championship and the majority of the team (with the exception of a few vets) were all called up to the AHL. Two from that team made it into the NHL.

I wasn't using 2 players to judge the skill level of an entire league. I used one player (Devin Wilson) as an example of a situation that happens numerous times every season...a 19-20 year-old player gets cut from a Junior team and makes an ECHL team that same season.

A lot of CHL (WHL, OHL, QMJHL) teams can claim that two players from any given roster made the NHL. The 1996/97 Prince George Cougars (Former Victoria Cougars - WHL) featured the following...

Zdeno Chara - Ottawa
Eric Brewer - Edmonton
Ronald Petrovicky - Atlanta
Joel Kwiatkowski - Washington
Blair Betts - New York Rangers
Tyler Bouck - Vancouver
Chris Mason - Nashville


And I wasn't using 2 players to judge the skill level of an entire league. I used one player (Devin Wilson) as an example of a situation that happens numerous times every season...a 19-20 year-old player gets cut from a Junior team and makes an ECHL team that same season.

http://www.echl.com/alumni/

That's not up-to-date. Quite a few guys have been signed this offseason by NHL teams.

a 19-20 year-old player gets cut from a Junior team and makes an ECHL team that same season.

Yes, but the example you gave was of a mediocre at best team in the WCHL at the time, not the ECHL. The ECHL has only been in the west since the start of last winter.

Yes, but the example you gave was of a mediocre at best team in the WCHL at the time, not the ECHL. The ECHL has only been in the west since the start of last winter.

It is still the same calibre of hockey, hence the merge of the two leagues.

Just because my one example didn't include a top team doesn't mean junior cuts can't get jobs elsewhere in the league.

Want another example?

Jeremy Chadsey. He played his entire junior career with the Quesnel Millionaires, a consistant basement team in the BCHL (Jr.A...one step below the WHL). He scored 41 points in 57 games in his final year with Quesnel. Not even an NCAA Division III school wanted him....but the ECHL was there to break his fall. Sure, he ended up playing for teams in the Central and United leagues too last season, but an ECHL team (Texas) took a guy who was a 2nd-3rd line Jr.A player as a 20 year-old, and got him started in Tier 3 pro hockey in the USA. Chadsey will never get a sniff of an NHL contract.

Why would Victoria want to watch third-tier pro hockey instead of first-tier junior hockey?

OK. This is the point where I step in and point out that Van is absolutely clueless. Read the article Holly put up on the increasing number of former ECHLers making it to the NHL. Watch a Kelly Cup game. They are rebroadcast from time to time, after all. Of course the ECHL isn't going to be NHL caliber, but it's very good as what it is - a AA level minor league. At the AA level, talent is STILL BEING DEVELOPED. So your two examples didn't do great in the WHL. Big whoop. I know of people who didn't too great playing high school sports who then turn into collegiate stand-outs. There's entirely too much going on in the background in athletics for one to dismiss a player because they didn't stand out on a single team. So yeah, they went to the ECHL. But which teams took them? Chadsey went to the Wildcatters, who tend to have trouble getting players in that they aren't affiliated with an NHL team and they're one of the newer teams in the league. Just as in the NHL, some teams take what they can get. That's hardly an indictment of the league.

I realize that most Canadians like to think of themselves as hockey studs, but the view you have of the league is one that's rapidly becoming outdated. Increasingly, NHL teams are putting prospects in the ECHL before moving them up to the AHL to see how they adjust to pro hockey. Meanwhile, the ECHL is tightening its rules so that number of career minor leaguers are limited. Lastly, for every Chadsey you mention, there's another Ruslan Fedotenko out there. The ECHL vs. the WHL? Men vs. boys. I guarantee the ECHL is faster and harder hitting. Like I said, actually give the product a chance before you mouth off on something you've yet to experience.

The ECHL vs. the WHL? Men vs. boys. I guarantee the ECHL is faster and harder hitting. Like I said, actually give the product a chance before you mouth off on something you've yet to experience.

You guarantee? How many years have you been watching the WHL?

I've watched some ECHL hockey on the NHL Network, and I gotta be honest. Canadian Major Junior is much more entertaining. I would rather watch future stars like Gilbert Brule, Sidney Crosby, etc over the ECHL anyday of the week.

In 1996, I attended the WHL all-star game....Jarome Iginla, Richard Zednik (was injured for the game), Sheldon Souray, Daymond Langkow, Chris Phillips, Wade Redden, Mike Leclerc, Curtis Brown, Peter Schaefer....all playing in the NHL at better than 3rd line calibre. Not to mention others over the years like Eric Brewer, Marian Hossa, Zdeno Chara, Shane Doan, Ryan Smyth, and many, many more.

Take a look at players at the upcoming World Cup...the following played in the CHL (WHL, OHL, LHJMQ):

Canada (24)
Brodeur - St.Hyacinthe - LHJMQ
Luongo - Val-d'Or, Acadie Bathurst - LHJMQ
Théodore - St.Jean, Hull - LHJMQ
Bouwmeester - Medicine Hat - WHL
Brewer - Prince George - WHL
Foote - Sault Ste. Marie - OHL
Hannan - Kelowna - WHL
Jovanovski - Windsor - OHL
Niedermayer - Kamloops - WHL
Redden - Brandon - WHL
Regehr - Kamloops - WHL
Doan - Kamloops - WHL
Draper - Ottawa - OHL
Gagné - Beauport, Québec - LHJMQ
Iginla - Kamloops - WHL
Lecavalier - Rimouski - LHJMQ
Lemieux - Laval - LHJMQ
Maltby - Owen Sound - OHL
Marleau - Seattle - WHL
Morrow - Portland - WHL
Richards - Rimouski - LHJMQ
Sakic - Swift Current - WHL
Smyth - Moose Jaw - WHL
Thornton - Sault Ste. Marie - OHL

The only Canadian players who didn't come out of the CHL are Dany Heatley (University of Wisconsin) and Martin St.Louis (University of Vermont).


USA (7)
Esche - Detroit/Plymouth - OHL
Hatcher - North Bay - OHL
Schneider - Cornwall - OHL
Gomez - Tri City - WHL
Konowalchuk - Portland - WHL
Langenbrunner - Peterborough - OHL
Modano - Prince Albert - WHL

The rest of Team USA took the NCAA route, occasionally leading through Canadian Jr.A hockey, such as the BCHL, where Brett Hull played in Penticton before moving onto US College.


Russia (2)
Tverdovsky - Brandon - WHL
V.Bure - Spokane - WHL

Slovakia (11)
Budaj - St.Mikes - OHL
Stana - Moose Jaw, Calgary - WHL
Bartecko - Chicoutimi, Drummondville - LHJMQ
Mezei - Belleville - OHL
Obsut - Swift Current, Edmonton/Kootenay, Medicine Hat - WHL
Suchy - Sherbrooke, Chicoutimi - LHJMQ
Chara - Prince George - WHL
Hossa - Portland - WHL
Nagy - Halifax - LHJMQ
Radivojevic - Belleville - OHL
Zednik - Portland - WHL

Czech Republic (2)
Kubina - Moose Jaw - WHL
Vasicek - Sault Ste. Marie - OHL

Finland
None

Germany (3)
Kolzig - New Westminster, Tri City - WHL
Leask - Toronto, Hamilton, Guelph, Oshawa - OHL
Benda - Oshawa - OHL

Sweden
None


Players with ECHL experience (8)
Vokoun (CZE)
Obsut (SVK)
Lasak (SVK)
Khavanov (RUS)
Laaksonen (FIN)
Kolzig (DEU)
Leask (DEU)
Benda (DEU)

The CHL outscores the ECHL 49-8. Before you point out that the CHL is 3 leagues, here are the numbers broken down...

WHL - 24
OHL - 15
LHJMQ - 10

All three individual leagues have more representation at the World Cup, and the WHL alone has three times the ECHL's representation at the World Cup....and 4 of those with ECHL experience are not currently in the NHL.

So anybody asking themselves why people in Victoria would rather watch the WHL than the ECHL needs to take a look at how many great hockey players come out of the WHL compared to the ECHL.

So anybody asking themselves why people in Victoria would rather watch the WHL than the ECHL needs to take a look at how many great hockey players come out of the WHL compared to the ECHL.

And also consider which has been around longer. Of course "more great hockey players" will come out of a league that's 36 years old as opposed to 16 years old. Especially when, to be honest, the ECHL has only recently gotten serious about changing its image.

And also consider which has been around longer. Of course "more great hockey players" will come out of a league that's 36 years old as opposed to 16 years old. Especially when, to be honest, the ECHL has only recently gotten serious about changing its image.

As long as the ECHL stays a third-tier pro league, it will never produce near the amount of top NHL players as Canadian Major Junior and the NCAA.

Watching Major Junior hockey is all about seeing the top prospects develop and get drafted. That is something the ECHL cannot and never will provide.

Look at Winnipeg. The people there want to get rid of the AHL in favour of the WHL.

As long as the ECHL stays a third-tier pro league, it will never produce near the amount of top NHL players as Canadian Major Junior and the NCAA.

Watching Major Junior hockey is all about seeing the top prospects develop and get drafted. That is something the ECHL cannot and never will provide.

Look at Winnipeg. The people there want to get rid of the AHL in favour of the WHL.

I think you're failing to understand the entire purpose of a minor league pro team. They don't produce the talent like the WHL or the NCAA does. They take that talent and then refine it. A good many of your WHLers going into the NHL are, increasingly, stopping off in the ECHL first.

I think you're failing to understand the entire purpose of a minor league pro team. They don't produce the talent like the WHL or the NCAA does. They take that talent and then refine it. A good many of your WHLers going into the NHL are, increasingly, stopping off in the ECHL first.

The WHLers going to the ECHL are those who were not good enough to sign on with an NHL club after their junior career was over. It is a rare case that such a player gets to the NHL through that route...and they don't become the great players that everybody wants to pay to see.

The whole point Victoria is trying to make, is that they don't want to see chances taken on "refining talent". They want to see the exciting young prospects who will go on to be NHL stars.

They want to see the exciting young prospects who will go on to be NHL stars.

Which you're seeing more and more in the ECHL. Ruslan Fedotenko, Alex Auld, David Aebischer, Tomas Vokoun, Steve Poapst, and Sean Pronger as NHL stars. All were once "exciting young prospects" playing in the ECHL.

Which you're seeing more and more in the ECHL. Ruslan Fedotenko, Alex Auld, David Aebischer, Tomas Vokoun, Steve Poapst, and Sean Pronger as NHL stars. All were once "exciting young prospects" playing in the ECHL.

None of those players are NHL stars. Auld, Vokoun and Aebischer have the potential. They are all goaltenders, who always take longer to develop than players.

Poapst and S.Pronger are 4th line NHL players. Fedotenko is 2nd-3rd line material. He's not a star either.

When I say NHL stars, I mean guys who will dominate the game in the NHL...not the players who will spend their career bouncing between the NHL and AHL.


Just look at the top NHL talent that comes out of the CHL. Why would any sane hockey fan choose the ECHL over that?

If Victoria fans didn't want the team then why did the city go ahead with it?

If Victoria fans didn't want the team then why did the city go ahead with it?

The city approved building the new 7,500-seat arena because when Toigo sold the Tri City Americans, the expansion franchise he was getting was supposed to go to Victoria (if I remember correctly). Vancouver got the franchise instead. I also seem to recall Tri City moving to Victoria as possibly being part of that, but it was a long time ago and I don't quite remember.

The Salsa (BCHL) could never fill a 7,500-seat arena (they were getting their own new 2,300-seat arena anyway), so a tenant for the new building was needed. When the only option left was ECHL, what choice did Victoria have?

Victoria built the big new arena for the WHL.

When the only option left was ECHL, what choice did Victoria have?

Oh, I don't know - the FHL, oh he who is ignorant to minor league hockey?

Oh, I don't know - the FHL, oh he who is ignorant to minor league hockey?

Don't give me the ignorance crap. You need to realize that "minor league hockey" does not do well in Canada. Aside from the NHL, the CHL is by far the most popular league in the country.

Look at AHL teams in Canada. With the exception of St.John's (who are moving to Toronto next season), the AHL draws horrible. The reason the Maple Leafs are moving St.John's is because they have no maritime opponents left. The AHL used to have teams in Cape Breton, Fredericton and Saint John. Look at Winnipeg...they desperately want to get rid of the Moose in favour of a WHL team. This season, Edmonton and Toronto will have their AHL affiliates playing in the same building, and those games will be attended by those who can't afford to attend the NHL games.

Face it. In Canada, if it's not the NHL, it's junior hockey. People here would simply rather see up-and-coming superstars than guys who couldn't make it after junior.

Or maybe juniors is more popular in Canada because the majority of the players are CANADIAN? The minor's have a more diverse range of players, a lot of Americans out of college are in the ECHL.

Or maybe juniors is more popular in Canada because the majority of the players are CANADIAN? The minor's have a more diverse range of players, a lot of Americans out of college are in the ECHL.

That has something to do with it, but not as much as the CHL allowing its fans to see more future NHL superstars than any other league can. Not even the NCAA produces as many bonafide NHL stars as the CHL.

That has something to do with it, but not as much as the CHL allowing its fans to see more future NHL superstars than any other league can. Not even the NCAA produces as many bonafide NHL stars as the CHL.
You can't prove that... and even if it is higher in numbers, that's because the CHL has been around longer then the ECHL, and just recently, as garnetpalmetto said, has the ECHL been more focused to develop better hockey players.

You can't prove that... and even if it is higher in numbers, that's because the CHL has been around longer then the ECHL, and just recently, as garnetpalmetto said, has the ECHL been more focused to develop better hockey players.

It's not because the CHL has been around longer, it is because the CHL's purpose is to develop 16-20 year-olds for the NHL. The ECHL's purpose is for those who don't succeed in junior and college hockey to have a place to play in a last-gasp attempt to have a successful career. The youngest guys you see in the ECHL are the 19-20 year-olds who get cut from junior teams.

Ask anybody in Winnipeg why they would rather have a WHL team than an AHL team. It's the same reason why people in Victoria would much rather see the WHL than the ECHL.

it is because the CHL's purpose is to develop 16-20 year-olds for the NHL.

So if the CHL is generating enough rejects that there's enough to populate an entire league as you claim, isn't it failing in it's purpose?

Look, I realize that anything non-Canadian is probably "FOREIGN" and "EVIL" to you. Of course truely gifted players aren't going to be in the ECHL. Again (uh oh, I'm about to bring in something non-Canadian, so watch out) it's like the sport with the most developed minor league structure, baseball. If you have a player in college who's a true standout, the odds are pretty good he may either A) Skip the minors altogether or B) Have a very accelerated trip through the minors, skipping over some levels entirely. But those genuinely gifted players are few. In the hockey world these are the franchise-playing top liners. The majority of players need more dvelopment. While not having that natural gift they're still talented enough to one day play th egame at the major league level. And sometimes these players have the ability to transcend all expectations and become that top-line player whose work ethic makes him a player any team would have. You laugh at Ruslan Fedotenko being a former ECHLer, but that former ECHLer won Game 7 for the Bolts. You call ECHLers failures, yet in 16 years, 255 players have gone on to the NHL. And as much as it hurts you to recognize it, they aren't fill-ins and this year, one of them was even a finalist for the Calder Trophy. Using the baseball analogy, they may not be a Nomar and they may never be a Nomar, but they very well could be a Jack Wilson.

THAT's the point of the ECHL. Not to give career minor leaguers a last chance - that's what the SPHL, FHL, and some of the lesser overseas leagues are for, considering the ECHL's now tougher rules on veterans - but to give players with decent potential the ability to make it. Are you going to see the next Gretzky in the ECHL? In all honesty, probably not. But then again, how many teams in the CHL can honestly claim to have the next Gretzky?

Finally, I point to HollyG's article regarding the 2003-04 ECHL to NHL graduates:
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article.php?sid=7141&mode=threaded&order=0

Taking graduates from previous years into account as well, a total of 115 ECHL players played in the NHL in 2003-04, including 31 goaltenders. There were 53 former ECHL players on NHL opening-day rosters, and there was a former ECHL player on each of the 30 teams in the NHL in 2003-04.

Being a developmental league means that the ECHL has a focus on young, upcoming players, ensuring that the league continues as a home for players with aspirations of furthering their professional careers, rather than a place for players in the twilight their careers. As such, each team is restricted to four veteran players, defined as an individual who has played 288 regular season games of professional hockey.

With affiliations with 21 of the 30 NHL teams last year and a similar number expected this season, the number of graduates to the NHL seems likely to remain at a similar level in 2004-05, assuming that the parent league plays a full season.

This steady increase in graduations of ECHL players no doubt reflects the growing confidence of NHL organizations in the talent that is developing in the league. As more big-name NHL players emerge from the ECHL, the league will continue to gain recognition.

Your own myopic view aside I know QUITE a few people in Victoria excited to have the ECHL back and when asked if they'd rather have a WHL team their response was usually something akin to "Well, I didn't know anything about the E going into it so I had my doubts. But as I learned more about the league, I'm getting excited." YOU may wish the Salmon Kings to fail, but we don't always get what we wish. If I were you, I'd prepare myself for that possibility.

Edit: added link per copyright regulations

If I may jump into the debate:

First off I'll point out that I agree that the CHL is more appealing than the ECHL or minor league hockey altogether to the majority of Canadians. I believe the reason behind this is as Van pointed out, people here want the NHL and if that is not an option they prefer watching players who have a higher chance of getting to it.

I also think the ECHL has its place. It is the top AA league and is slowly redefining itself to be a more developmental league. Yet the point that the CHL has produced more NHL players than the ECHL because of its 20 year head start is meaningless. Rather one should look at any given current CHL roster and any given current ECHL roster and compare the number of "future NHLers" (used loosely to describe players who hockey experts expect to play in the NHL someday). It is clear that the CHL holds more overall.

Garnet's rebuttal that the CHL is failing because the league produces enough players to fill a minor league is also a fallacy. There are enough CHL no goods to fill the most part to the ECHL, some CenHL, a little UHL and surprisingly some Cdn University teams. But this doesn't mean anything towards whether the people in Victoria or Canada as a general want ECHL or CHL. The top talent of the CHL is greater than the top talent of the ECHL and will likely be that way for many years to come.

I took a look at the all-time ECHL's NHL alumni page and if one were to create an "all-star" team, I mean full 23 man roster, one would come up with a team with decent goaltending and perhaps an NHL calibre 1st and possibly 2nd line and then AHL calibre 3rd and 4th lines.

I think goaltenders are not quite useful for our debate because if a team has 5 goalies signed to contract 1 of them will be in the ECHL in all likelihood. Because most teams have their 2 set NHLers a AHL vet and an AHL prospect goalie meaning if there is another goaltending prospect of 20yrs + he will play in the ECHL.

With positional players we see the real meat of the debate. I'm not going to spend my time conceiving that all-star team myself but Fedotenko, Boguniecki, Boughner, Fedoruk, Oliwa, Tyson Nash and a few others jump out as the best alumni in the ECHL's lifetime. Now this is where the CHL blows the ECHL away. Look at the last 5 years alone and the players that have graduated to from the CHL to the NHL are far better. No one can deny that. It is not just because there are more CHL teams. The ECHL even has a greater pool of players to choose from than the CHL teams do. CHL teams can only have 2 imported players. And the ECHL teams have access in one way or another to every player that goes thru the CHL and more.

Furthermore if one takes that ECHL alumni all-star team and removes any players who did not play an entire season worth of games in the ECHL it gets all the more weaker. Now fill in that roster with other alumni and then again remove all players who did not play at least half a season in the NHL. That team starts to look pretty ordinary. CHL fans are guaranteed to see their top players for at least a full season usually three.

CHL fans get to see there top players develop and then lose them to the NHL, which is the point of the league. ECHL fans get to see the absolute cream of the crop players play a few games and move on to the NHL and the top players move on to the AHL. This happens in mid-season most the time. Fedotenko played only 8 games, even Fedoruk only played 18 ECHL games. So really ECHL fans aren't actually getting to watch their stars develop, they merely get a glimpse.

Overall I think this is why Canadians prefer the CHL to minor hockey. I'm sure Victorians are happy to have the Salmon Kings because it is better than no team at all (I'm rudely ignoring the Salsa). However they would prefer the WHL in all likelihood given the option of the two.

So if the CHL is generating enough rejects that there's enough to populate an entire league as you claim, isn't it failing in it's purpose?

Look, I realize that anything non-Canadian is probably "FOREIGN" and "EVIL" to you. Of course truely gifted players aren't going to be in the ECHL. Again (uh oh, I'm about to bring in something non-Canadian, so watch out) it's like the sport with the most developed minor league structure, baseball. If you have a player in college who's a true standout, the odds are pretty good he may either A) Skip the minors altogether or B) Have a very accelerated trip through the minors, skipping over some levels entirely. But those genuinely gifted players are few. In the hockey world these are the franchise-playing top liners. The majority of players need more dvelopment. While not having that natural gift they're still talented enough to one day play th egame at the major league level. And sometimes these players have the ability to transcend all expectations and become that top-line player whose work ethic makes him a player any team would have. You laugh at Ruslan Fedotenko being a former ECHLer, but that former ECHLer won Game 7 for the Bolts. You call ECHLers failures, yet in 16 years, 255 players have gone on to the NHL. And as much as it hurts you to recognize it, they aren't fill-ins and this year, one of them was even a finalist for the Calder Trophy. Using the baseball analogy, they may not be a Nomar and they may never be a Nomar, but they very well could be a Jack Wilson.

THAT's the point of the ECHL. Not to give career minor leaguers a last chance - that's what the SPHL, FHL, and some of the lesser overseas leagues are for, considering the ECHL's now tougher rules on veterans - but to give players with decent potential the ability to make it. Are you going to see the next Gretzky in the ECHL? In all honesty, probably not. But then again, how many teams in the CHL can honestly claim to have the next Gretzky?

Finally, I point to HollyG's article regarding the 2003-04 ECHL to NHL graduates:
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article.php?sid=7141&mode=threaded&order=0



Your own myopic view aside I know QUITE a few people in Victoria excited to have the ECHL back and when asked if they'd rather have a WHL team their response was usually something akin to "Well, I didn't know anything about the E going into it so I had my doubts. But as I learned more about the league, I'm getting excited." YOU may wish the Salmon Kings to fail, but we don't always get what we wish. If I were you, I'd prepare myself for that possibility.

Edit: added link per copyright regulations


Non Canadian is foreign and evil? Give your head a shake. That sounds really funny coming from an American.

1) I came here to discuss hockey, not the political stereotypes of Americans that have been perpetuated by the fouled-up policies of this administration

2) That being said, just because I happened to have been born in the United States hardly means I'm some xenophobic redneck who proudly states that he's never applied for a passport. If you think so, you've sorely missed the mark.

3) In regards to my comment, I have repeatedly seen users not only here but on other boards dismiss the ECHL as some barely evolved beer league for the simple reason that it didn't originate in Canada.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned so far is rivalries. As a person living in Victoria, I drool over the thought of a WHL team in town. A large part of this is obviously the superior (although often undeveloped) talent. However, just thinking of the rivalries we would develop with teams such as Vancouver, Seattle, Kelowna, etc. really puts the WHL head and shoulders over the ECHL for Victoria. I don't know too many people around here that are going to get excited for a Victoria/Fresno or Victoria/Bakersfield matchup.

you got it cds. This business that we dont like echl because its american is really stupid. What we do like is good hockey. Who cares where it comes from. Nobody said we wouldn't give the ECHL a shot. I can say that I will attend some games for sure because I am a hockey fan. To put things in perspective...At training camp they had a local fireman who hasn't played in a few years. I think they only had 17 players at camp. I'll chalk this up to growing pains and hope things improve.