Strikeforce: Carano vs. Cyborg (August 15)

http://www.strikeforce.com/assets/caranocyborg_726x200.jpg

Live on Showtime from the HP Pavilion in San Jose, CA



Main Card

Main Event for the vacant Strikeforce 145lb Female Championship
Gina Carano (http://sherdog.com/fighter/Gina-Carano-16535) 7-0 vs. Cristiane Santos (http://sherdog.com/fighter/Cristiane-Santos-14477) 7-1
For the Interim Strikeforce Lightweight Championship
Gilbert Melendez (http://sherdog.com/fighter/Gilbert-Melendez-5545) 15-2 (Champion) vs. Mitsuhiro Ishida (http://sherdog.com/fighter/Mitsuhiro-Ishida-2225)1 18-5-1
For the Strikeforce Light-Heavyweight Championship 2
Renato Sobral (http://sherdog.com/fighter/Renato-Sobral-274) (Champion) 35-8 vs. Gegard Mousasi (http://sherdog.com/fighter/Gegard-Mousasi-7466) 25-2-1
Jesse Taylor (http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Jesse-Taylor-17389)3 13-3 vs. Jay Hieron (http://sherdog.com/fighter/Jay-Hieron-9267)4 17-4



Preliminary Card


Fabricio Werdum (http://sherdog.com/fighter/Fabricio-Werdum-8390) 11-4-1 vs. Mike Kyle (http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Mike-Kyle-3619)5 12-6-1
Isaiah Hill (http://sherdog.com/fighter/Isaiah-Hill-15627) 4-6-1 vs. Alex Trevino (http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Alexander-Trevino-21209) 3-0
Mike Cook (http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Mike-Cook-18704) 7-4 vs. Scott Lighty (http://sherdog.com/fighter/Scott-Lighty-27912) 4-0
James Terry (http://sherdog.com/fighter/James-Terry-17906) 6-1 vs. Zac Bucia (http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Zak-Bucia-23430) 3-2
David Douglas (http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/David-Douglas-12345) 4-1 vs. Justin Wilcox (http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Justin-Wilcox-16879) 5-3




1Mitsuhiro Ishida is replacing the injured Josh Thomson. (http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=9257&zoneid=2) (7/29)
2This bout was previously scheduled to take place on the August 1st "Affliction: Trilogy" card. (http://mmajunkie.com/news/15648/renato-babalu-sobral-to-defend-strikeforce-title-against-gegard-mousasi-on-aug-15.mma) (7/27)
3Jesse Taylor replaces the AWOL Nick Diaz (http://mmajunkie.com/news/15799/jesse-taylor-steps-in-for-nick-diaz-at-strikeforce-carano-vs-cyborg.mma) (8/10)
4Jay Hieron replaces the injured Joe Riggs (http://mmajunkie.com/news/15672/jay-hieron-replaces-joe-riggs-meets-nick-diaz-for-strikeforce-welterweight-title-on-aug-15.mma) (7/29)
5Alistair Overeem was forced to pull out of this fight with a previous injury. (http://mmajunkie.com/news/15586/lingering-injury-forces-alistair-overeem-out-of-aug-15-strikeforce-heavyweight-title-fight.mma) (7/21)

its a great card... to bad i cant watch it =(

I'm really looking forward to this card, especially since they added Diaz/Hieron. Hopefully they have a legit LW on call in case the punk can't go, GOMI :amazed:, even with fighters having to pull out they've done a hell of a job putting together a GREAT card.

This is an incredible card. I'm going to be keeping a close eye on Mousasi. He's a hot prospect and it will be interesting to see how moving up in class will affect his overall game. Babalu is a good test for him and while I like Babalu, it's always exciting when new blood is on the upswing. Not to say 205 needs it but guys like Jon Jones and Gegard Mousasi have 205 on notice just as Sokoudjou did last year and it's most interesting when it comes time to make or break.

Gina is a total babe but got the feeling that Cyborg is going to wreck her. She's the old Wanderlai of female mma and I really hope both fighters make weight. Cyborg is relentless but Gina will test her better than just about anybody.

I'm rooting for Diaz but he should be fighting at 185

Mitsuhiro Ishida is stepping in to replace Thomson, who couldn't get medical clearance.

http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=9257&zoneid=2

It'll be an interim title fight so it still can potentially go five rounds. It's also a rematch, Ishida won a decision over Melendez in Japan a couple years ago.

Mitsuhiro Ishida is stepping in to replace Thomson, who couldn't get medical clearance.

http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=9257&zoneid=2

It'll be an interim title fight so it still can potentially go five rounds. It's also a rematch, Ishida won a decision over Melendez in Japan a couple years ago.
They've did a good job of getting solid replacements for the guys who went down with injury. The main card for this event looks better then UFC 101's does. The undercard isn't as strong but chances are we won't see them anyhow with 4 title fights on the card. I'll be pulling for Diaz, Melendez, Gina and Babalu although I'm a big Mousasi fan too.

They've did a good job of getting solid replacements for the guys who went down with injury. The main card for this event looks better then UFC 101's does. The undercard isn't as strong but chances are we won't see them anyhow with 4 title fights on the card. I'll be pulling for Diaz, Melendez, Gina and Babalu although I'm a big Mousasi fan too.

Yeah, I'm not sure who I'm rooting for in the Sobral/Mousasi fight. Tough one, I like them both.

Two weeks out. Chances Werdum will have an opponent?

Two weeks out. Chances Werdum will have an opponent?
I think they'll find someone for him, it just won't be as glamorous as the other replacements.

At this point I think Buentello is probably the best option, not a great fight but I think he's the biggest name still available.

At this point I think Buentello is probably the best option, not a great fight but I think he's the biggest name still available.
Still disappointed that Roger Gracie was unwilling/unable to sign on for this fight. :(

Also, the Erin Toughill fight has been scrapped (http://mma.fanhouse.com/2009/07/30/erin-toughill-off-august-strikeforce-card/), and she'll be on hand for a reserve replacement in case Carano or Cyborg go down between now and August 15th. Too bad Strikeforce couldn't find an opponent since they'll need to start looking past Cyborg/Carano if they really want women's MMA to become something.

Is anyone showing this in Canada? I don't think I can even order Showtime from my cable provider.

Adding Babalu/Mousasi piqued my interest a little more after Overeem had to pull out.

Still disappointed that Roger Gracie was unwilling/unable to sign on for this fight. :(




That dude has pulled out of more fights than I think I've been able to watch. I don't understand it, his ground game is second to none.

That being said I'm thinking about going up to San Jose and proposing marriage to Gina BEFORE the fight because I'm not sure I'll be interested in her after Nogueria with a wig Evangalista Cyborg gets done with her. I think I'd rather fight Phil "I'm the best EVA" Baroni.

On a serious note, this card is definitely stacked, . Scott Coker should be congratulated for putting on what should be a great show.

I think they'll find someone for him, it just won't be as glamorous as the other replacements.

ugh

http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=9280&zoneid=13

“We’ve agreed to fight Mike (Kyle). As I sit hear speaking to you, that’s the fight,” Werdum’s manager, Richard Wilner, told MMAWeekly.com early Monday afternoon. Wilner said he even confirmed with Strikeforce CEO Scott Coker that the fight was on after seeing several online reports to the contrary.

I hope Werdum chokes him unconscious.

ugh

http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=9280&zoneid=13



I hope Werdum chokes him unconscious.
I can't believe Kyle still gets licensed in the US...let alone California. :shakehead

Has Gegard ever had a fight in the cage? Babalu is a tough fight for anyone, yet alone someone who will be making his cage debut. Don't get me wrong, Gegard has looked like the next big thing, but if he isn't used to the cage he might be in for a long night.

Has Gegard ever had a fight in the cage? Babalu is a tough fight for anyone, yet alone someone who will be making his cage debut. Don't get me wrong, Gegard has looked like the next big thing, but if he isn't used to the cage he might be in for a long night.

nothing high-profile but he did do a couple fights in HCF (Canada) that were in a cage, about 2 years ago.

http://www.mmaroot.com/gegard-mousasi-vs-damir-mirenic-hcf-video/
http://www.mmaroot.com/gegard-mousasi-vs-evangelista-cyborg-santos-hcf-video/

But yeah, he's definitely less experienced than Babalu in that respect. Whether it will make a big difference, I don't know. To me the big factor is whether Babalu is disciplined in his approach, if he gets baited into standing and trading then I think Mousasi will drop him, but he should be able to use his grappling to get the win if he sticks with it.

nothing high-profile but he did do a couple fights in HCF (Canada) that were in a cage, about 2 years ago.

http://www.mmaroot.com/gegard-mousasi-vs-damir-mirenic-hcf-video/
http://www.mmaroot.com/gegard-mousasi-vs-evangelista-cyborg-santos-hcf-video/

But yeah, he's definitely less experienced than Babalu in that respect. Whether it will make a big difference, I don't know. To me the big factor is whether Babalu is disciplined in his approach, if he gets baited into standing and trading then I think Mousasi will drop him, but he should be able to use his grappling to get the win if he sticks with it.

Thanks.

IDK, the only fights on this card I really care about are the Diaz/Hieron and Sobral/Mousasi fights.

WAR Diaz!

and I am pulling for Sobral to win.

Is anyone showing this in Canada? I don't think I can even order Showtime from my cable provider.

Adding Babalu/Mousasi piqued my interest a little more after Overeem had to pull out.

Would love to know this too. Looks like it's Justin.tv time...

I'm psyched for Babalu/Mousasi

Oh, and I third for how to watch in Canada

To my fellow countrymen, I think it will air on PPV. The last card (Sheilds/Lawler) was only availble on PPV up our way. I think it was about 10 dolla cheaper than the UFC events if my memory serves me.

To my fellow countrymen, I think it will air on PPV. The last card (Sheilds/Lawler) was only availble on PPV up our way. I think it was about 10 dolla cheaper than the UFC events if my memory serves me.

Yeah, I was searching the guide for it the other day - PPV indeed.

Don't get me wrong, I think Gina's as hot as the next guy, but I think she belongs in a centerfold mag and not in a ring. I'm not trying to sound sexist, but at this point women's MMA just isn't exciting...yet. The compelling matchups aren't there and really, very few of the fights have been great fights. I don't really care who wins this fight.

Card had some updates today, aside from some of the prelim bouts, Werdum/Kyle appears to be dropped from the televised action.

Diaz vs Heiron might be off, Diaz missed his pre fight drug test. Apparently he was up in the mountains training, he's got until 3pm to get to LA and submit a sample to the CSAC today. You're on the clock Nick.

If he drops out, his replacement will be Jesse Taylor. Not bad.

Official, Diaz now off the card and not licensed by the CSAC, strange situation, you can check it out over at BE.

So we go from Diaz vs Shields to Diaz vs Heiron to Heiron vs Taylor? Yikes.

Diaz is a piece of **** and probably knew he would fail his drug test if he submitted a sample.

Diaz is a piece of **** and probably knew he would fail his drug test if he submitted a sample.

Close enough I suppose

"They changed it without any notification," said Gracie. "No one had any time. The old guys were doing things based off of California law, and I knew California law didn't change. He's licensed... it's legal. They're own legal team came out with a ruling that said (compassionate use was allowed). Then all of a sudden they're saying we're doing drug tests, and cannabis is included, it's not just performance enhancers. To flush it out of his system, it takes 10 days, and we don't have that."

I love the CSAC!

Official, Diaz now off the card and not licensed by the CSAC, strange situation, you can check it out over at BE.

So we go from Diaz vs Shields to Diaz vs Heiron to Heiron vs Taylor? Yikes.
Initially Riggs/Diaz*

Initially Riggs/Diaz*

Semantics semantics :sarcasm:

Semantics semantics :sarcasm:
Yeah yeah. :naughty:

Though as much as we'd like to see Shields/Diaz, I doubt we ever do.

Yeah yeah. :naughty:

Though as much as we'd like to see Shields/Diaz, I doubt we ever do.


It was probably just wishful thinking on my part. I don't really know which side to believe in this story now, on one hand you have Diaz and his Gracie camp saying there was a gentleman's agreement not to test for pot because of his medicinal card and on the other hand you have the CSAC saying or at least not saying that is the case.

And then I just found this gem.......

The promoter of a mixed martial arts card March 7 in Tulare, Calif., confirmed Friday that one of the competitors was allowed to fight despite testing positive for Hepatitis C and having no test results on file for HIV.

Close enough I suppose

"They changed it without any notification," said Gracie. "No one had any time. The old guys were doing things based off of California law, and I knew California law didn't change. He's licensed... it's legal. They're own legal team came out with a ruling that said (compassionate use was allowed). Then all of a sudden they're saying we're doing drug tests, and cannabis is included, it's not just performance enhancers. To flush it out of his system, it takes 10 days, and we don't have that."

I love the CSAC!

:laugh:

I picture the Diaz brothers spending most of their time hanging around puffing on joints the size of parking meters and can't feel terribly sorry that this has come back to bite those morons. However, what business of it of the CSAC that a fighter may have consumed cannabis (or alcohol, or double-mocha-frappucino, or whatever)? Is the CSAC supposed to be ensuring a fair athletic competition, or are they enforcing a moral standard? This is pure BS, IMO.



Wait... they said compassionate use is allowed? Maybe they could find a shady eye doctor willing to state that Diaz needs marijuana for his glaucoma?

:laugh:



Wait... they said compassionate use is allowed? Maybe they could find a shady eye doctor willing to state that Diaz needs marijuana for his glaucoma?


And Diaz has a compassionate use card, which is why this whole hullabaloo gets confusing and muddled.

Has that Hep C thing been confirmed? Christ.

Has that Hep C thing been confirmed? Christ.


Here ya go, f'ing scary stuff man......

http://www.latimes.com/features/health/la-sp-mma-failed-test8-2009aug08,0,6990641.column

Brodie Farber: I have absolutely no interest in watching women fight. I’ll be sure to tune into a different channel during that time.

Which begs the question, does anyone have any interest in watching Brodie Farber fight?

Which begs the question, does anyone have any interest in watching Brodie Farber fight?

Who's Brodie Farber? :laugh:

Who's Brodie Farber? :laugh:

This guy.
http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Brodie-Farber-6123
http://www.cdn.sherdog.com/_images/pictures/7/6711.jpg

Holy crap, stop the presses. Both Gina and Wanderlei with a wig Cyborg made weight.

And the fun continues with the Heiron fight. Taylor didn't make weight and has an hour to make it.

MAIN CARD

* Gina Carano (143) vs. Cristiane "Cyborg" Santos (144.5)
* Champ Renato "Babalu" Sobral (201) vs. Gegard Mousasi (204)
* Champ Gilbert Melendez (155) vs. Mitsuhiro Ishida (155)
* Mike Kyle (219) vs. Fabricio Werdum (228)
* Jay Hieron (169) vs. Jesse Taylor (172)*

PRELIMINARY CARD (un-aired)

* Mike Cook (205) vs. Scott Lighty (202)
* David "Tarzan" Douglas (156) vs. Justin Wilcox (154)
* Zak Bucia (170) vs. James Terry (169)
* Isaiah Hill (156) vs. Alex Trevino (156)


Does anyone else find it weird that so many fighters came in so comfortably below the weight limit? Babalu looked surprised that he was 201.

Does anyone else find it weird that so many fighters came in so comfortably below the weight limit? Babalu looked surprised that he was 201.

That was weird. Why cut that weight if you don't have to? :dunno:

Which begs the question, does anyone have any interest in watching Brodie Farber fight?

I'm not sure I'd watch that fight if it was available in Canada either. I've enjoyed several of Gina's previous bouts, but I couldn't bear to see the Axe Murderer break her beautiful face with those clubbing fists of his. It makes me cringe just thinking about it.

Does anyone else find it weird that so many fighters came in so comfortably below the weight limit? Babalu looked surprised that he was 201.

Not sure if it was the weight or something else, but something definitely attracted his attention.

http://www.cdn.sherdog.com/_images/pictures/20090814052701_05sobral.JPG

EDIT - yeah, I caught a replay of the weigh-in. He definitely seemed surprised with the weight. Plus that guy telling him he had to take his pants off (he was going to step on the scale with them on).

I'm not sure I'd watch that fight if it was available in Canada either. I've enjoyed several of Gina's previous bouts, but I couldn't bear to see the Axe Murderer break her beautiful face with those clubbing fists of his. It makes me cringe just thinking about it.

Or it could end up like Wanderlei/CroCop. Wild Chute Boxe brawler picked apart by a more technical stand-up fighter.

Which begs the question, does anyone have any interest in watching Brodie Farber fight?

Well, it was sweet watching Rory Markham knock him out with a sick head kick.

Holy crap, stop the presses. Both Gina and Wanderlei with a wig Cyborg made weight.

And the fun continues with the Heiron fight. Taylor didn't make weight and has an hour to make it.

Hahahahahahaha.

Gina looked so hot at that weigh in,, WOW

I'm not watching the Carano vs Santos fight.

I can't stand joke sideshow freak fights.

Womens MMA like all womens sports is a joke plain and simple.

Babalu vs Mousasi is the real main event here.

Thank god I'm not paying for this

I just don't see any way that Carano doesn't get mangled by Cyborg...

I'm not watching the Carano vs Santos fight.

I can't stand joke sideshow freak fights.

Womens MMA like all womens sports is a joke plain and simple.

Babalu vs Mousasi is the real main event here.

Thank god I'm not paying for this

Just curious, have you ever seen a women's fight?

Jay Hieron beats Jesse Taylor BTW.

Jay Hieron beats Jesse Taylor BTW.

Nice.

is everyone streaming this like me?

no way im payin 50$

I'm not watching the Carano vs Santos fight.

I can't stand joke sideshow freak fights.

Womens MMA like all womens sports is a joke plain and simple.

Babalu vs Mousasi is the real main event here.

Thank god I'm not paying for this

Brodie Farber posts on HFboards!

Gina looked quite nice at weigh ins

Well that didn't take long. Werdum pwned Kyle.

4-1 so far tonight on my picks.

if werdum could ever cut to 205 he'd be awesome.

Brodie Farber posts on HFboards!

LOL!!!!

Did I hear Mauro mention Kharitonov?

Damn that reporter is hot!!

Oh god Jenn Brown and Gina on screen together...NO FAIR!!

kinda cool how they show you a computer simulation of the move they are talking about, in that case the clinch knee, to educate the new fans... someones got to.

Anybody else not like announcing the fighter's name before the fight?

Anybody else not like announcing the fighter's name before the fight?

nope, never had a problem with it. some people don't know the guys name, and it's good to get energy before the fight. it's like a hockey game where all the players dont skate out onto the ice for a little introduction, or the anthem. itd be weird if the players just went straight to the bench, the 12 players skate out and they drop the puck 6 seconds later

Why in the hell did I pick Ishida???

ichida knows he's screwed, 5 rounds its only a matter of time. melendez is visibly the bigger stronger and more skilled.

Looks like he should be fighting at 145.

Hopefully I'll be 5-1 after this fight.

yup, what i thought

I almost feel like Joe Beninati is doing the announcing.

Nice. Officially 5-1.

That was eh. Ishida shouldn't be fighting at 155 he's too small.

Nice. Officially 5-1.

do you have your picks up earlier in the thread?

who do you have in Gina vs. cyborg, Babalu vs. mousassi?

do you have your picks up earlier in the thread?

who do you have in Gina vs. cyborg, Babalu vs. mousassi?

In the MMA game thread.

Picked Cyborg and Mousassi.

That was eh. Ishida shouldn't be fighting at 155 he's too small.

It was a terribly boring fight if you ask me.

hahaha, 100 to 20 strikes, 38 to 10 power strikes.

This crowd sucks, too. Might just be them muting the crowd or something, but I hear zero energy from them.

i think strikeforce is gunna give cyborg a bonus if she doesnt make carano too ugly, broken nose = no bonus

did i hear that it was gunna be 5 5 minute rounds for the ladies, it used to be 3 minute rounds

The Axe Murderess looks angry.

Even the reporter is scared of her.

This better be a good fight!!

this will be an awesome fight no doubt, ther's no way it can;t be, jsu tto make it interesting, im going with sobral, and ill take carano. i want babalu to wn for nostalgia and cause it was funny when he choked that guy extra long. and i want gina becasue of hotness.

Sweet Babalu has Metal Mullisha on his Gi top.

why did babalu weight in at 201, thats weird

Even the reporter is scared of her.


I found out she was training within walking distance of my apartment, crazy stuff.

I found out she was training within walking distance of my apartment, crazy stuff.

I'm guessing you avoided dark alleys and transvestites then.

Hahaha that sly little look from Mousasi during the instructions was great.

Big John is getting fat.

I'm guessing you avoided dark alleys and transvestites then.

If I didn't before I sure as hell will now.

Let's go Babalu!

Atta boy Gegard!!! DAYUM!!!

Crap.... poor Babalu :(

HOLY F

That was crazy stuff.

Mousasi!

I'm a fan of Babalu though :(

ohhhhhhhh sheeaattttttttttttttttttttt. time for the ufc gegard. anderson, machida.

apparently his manager didnt tell gegard ufcs offer acurately and it was more than strkeforce

Ho.

Ly.

F*.

Ck.

That was Fedor-esque, from the fight to his reaction after the fight. wow.

Do people know who he is now? Too bad he's sponsored by M-1. It was on his banner.

ohhhhhhhh sheeaattttttttttttttttttttt. time for the ufc gegard. anderson, machida.

apparently his manager didnt tell gegard ufcs offer acurately and it was more than strkeforce

The UFC didn't make an offer.

That was Fedor-esque, from the fight to his reaction after the fight. wow.

just notcied in the ref cam mousasi stopped, big john hadnt stepped n yet, mousasi just saw babalu was out, anyone else notice this?

The UFC didn't make an offer.

oh i guess it was a sherdog rumour.

That was Fedor-esque, from the fight to his reaction after the fight. wow.

It was almost no emotion, dare I say Fedor like as well. Also I believe I called that. :yo::yo::handclap:

Just absolute annihilation.

My God.

I did not see that coming.

Mousasi doesn't even look like he cares he won. Talk about cold, cold, cold.

Scary dude.

just notcied in the ref cam mousasi stopped, big john hadnt stepped n yet, mousasi just saw babalu was out, anyone else notice this?



oh i guess it was a sherdog rumour.
Yeah he stopped punching about a half second before Big John stopped it

Yeah he stopped punching about a half second before Big John stopped it

Classy move, too.

The UFC didn't make an offer.


Like hell they didn't. Gegard got F'd in the A by M-1 BIG TIME..... He lost out on about 100k per.

I can't wait until M-1 folds. Maybe that's wishful thinking but with their struggles with their event maybe that's a sign of problems to come.

Like hell they didn't. Gegard got F'd in the A by M-1 BIG TIME..... He lost out on about 100k per.

Joe Silva went on the record, a couple days after the rumor broke. He said their offer would have been more than the rumored $40K/fight or whatever, but that they hadn't gotten to the point of making an offer yet.

Man that dude got knocked the **** out.

Joe Silva went on the record, a couple days after the rumor broke. He said their offer would have been more than the rumored $40K/fight or whatever, but that they hadn't gotten to the point of making an offer yet.

joe silva said they wuld have honored afflictions contract which was 125 per (no win bonus), he got 40k/40k for win at strikeforce. so 45-85k per depending whether he won/lost

Anyone else think the crowd sucks tonight? Very mellow San Jose crowd.

Joe Silva went on the record, a couple days after the rumor broke. He said their offer would have been more than the rumored $40K/fight or whatever, but that they hadn't gotten to the point of making an offer yet.


I'll have to see if I can find it but Dana said something to the effect of we would have honored his Affliction contract. M-1 told Gegard the UFC was going to offer 40/40

"Not only did we not make an offer, but we would’ve assumed his Affliction contract and its terms. So whatever Affliction was paying him, that’s what we would’ve honored, and it was considerably more than 40/40," Joe Silva said."

M-1 are sleezy sleezy sleezy people.

considering the fame he would have got in the ufc it definatley costs him a few hundred thousand probably, the quicker he jumps to ufc the more succesful he'll be.


alright time for carano chat. shes hot.

Man, I would like to slip one past Carano's guard.

Man, I would like to slip one past Carano's guard.


Hell she can keep me in her guard and put me in a triangle all day ;)

Hell she can keep me in her guard and put me in a triangle all day ;)

She can ground and pound me all she wants.

Hell she can keep me in her guard and put me in a triangle all day ;)

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f61/hot-carano-pics-1033197/ u can see a little camel toe in some pics

I would prefer her to have full mount, though.

Cyborg is what I think of when I think of a woman's prison.

I would prefer her to have full mount, though.

i would prefer pile driver.

cyborg looks like she eats kids for breakfast :laugh:

I could do without the cornrows but she's welcome to bring the vaseline with her.

Plz don't hit Gina in the face too hard, Cyborg <3

Liquid will sleep with you if you leave her alone.

I could do without the cornrows but she's welcome to bring the vaseline with her.

She can use that mouth-guard on me if she wants. Just sayin'.

I feel like they are polishing Gina's face up because it's the last time it will ever look like that :(

Cyborg is what I think of when I think of a woman's man's supermax prison.

fixed.

if gina loses with no damage to her face it's a win.

i know cyborgs gunna wanna pound her face in extra hard

is cyborg really mike tyson in disguise

They should really let Randy Couture fight Cyborg. He's fighting his brother soon...

Liquid will sleep with you if you leave her alone.

Scarier, that or jumping out of a plane with no parachute?

caranos got this one,

Scarier, that or jumping out of a plane with no parachute?

Is it just me, or does Cyborg remind anyone else of the giant Amazonian women from that Futurama episode?

Death by snu-snu!

Insane first couple of minutes

Carano looks pretty gassed :(

this us wildly entertaining.

this just feels wrong watching this

****ing ********

Why in the hell didn't Big John ref that? Crazy fight though, but what I expected.

Poor Gina....

Gina we still love you, stop fighting and just marry me.

Entertaining fight though!!!!!

Unfortunately exactly what I saw coming.

OK now I agree with the stoppage. Just unfortunate it had to happen when it did.

her face looks alright, that's a win!

cyborg is on roids, carano should feel fine.

stoppage was fine, i feel it would have been earlier but the ref know the bell was coming so i think he held off seeing if it bell would ring.

I love the look of girls who wake up next to me when they are tired with no make-up. I will love the look when Gina wakes up next to me with bruises and a busted up face.

OK now I agree with the stoppage. Just unfortunate it had to happen when it did.

I actually thought the stoppage was a bit late. I realize it's a big fight and all, but she ate a lot of punches there. Should've been stopped two or three punches earlier.

her face looks alright, that's a win!




Just wait until tomorrow. That last punch is going to leave a nice black eye.

So I decided to watch the Gina/Cyborg bout because they actually both made weight, which was shocking in that of itself. Boy was that a poor decision! I felt my MMA IQ drop a few points watching that so called display of mixed martial arts. Neither one had any sort of stand up skill and my god what were they doing on the ground? Nevermind stopping MMA for women because we don't want to see women fight, just stop it because they don't even know how. I think I saw more technical skills back in UFC 1

If the ref was just going to let her get pounded on, he might as well just let the bell right first instead of waiting til less than a second is left in the round.

Just wait until tomorrow. That last punch is going to leave a nice black eye.

i jsut dont think there's any cuts or broken nose. a bruise will fade.

Crazy fight....Cyborg's just a beast. Who can beat her?

i jsut dont think there's any cuts or broken nose. a bruise will fade.

Good point!

Man did Gina mess Cyborg up though, oh wait that's just her face.

DAMN.....if only Gina hadn't gotten off Cyborg when she had dominate position. She was pounding Cyborg pretty good and then got off her for some reason. :rant:

That was a beatdown, I'm so sorry Gina :cry:

Btw, Mousasi is a friggin beast, just shows how training with Fedor can make you fight, Mousasi vs Andersson Silva, make it happen Dana.

Good point!

Man did Gina mess Cyborg up though, oh wait that's just her face.

ahahah, man i htought cyborg was gunna win in the quickly after the first few seconds, but then twice cyborg tried to take gina down and ended up in an unfavorable position, gina got full mount both times i thought.

gina should have stayed on top.

Lol apparently gina is still unavailable cause she's getting looked at by doctors, in other words she go knocked the **** out!

Gina is 2 much celebrity, and nt enough fighter imo.

Gina has always been more of a slow methodical fighter who picks her spots but cyborg is just to fast and aggressive for that.

It hardly seems fair to have them in the same division even though they are the same height and weight class. Cyborg seems so much bigger.

That stoppage was at like 4:59:998 lol the round ended at the same exact moment he decided to jump in.

HAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

WHAT
A
GOD
DAMN
JOKE

are you kidding me

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

that was the worst display of MMA I have seen in a long time.

jesus christ that was horrible.

both were gassed to hell after 4 minutes and both had no skills.

what a joke. I feel bad for anyone to who paid to see this.

thank god. womens MMA is irrelevant again.

Gina made a really big mistake by getting up when she was pounding Cyborg, goes to show you how opportunist you have to be to win, it also shows that she's a one trick pony relying on one art of fighting (And even in her own style, she got owned).

I hope this loss makes her a better fighter because this fight was so one sided that it will eventually end woman's MMA.

I don't think Rosenthal made a mistake, but if he did it was in waiting too long. Sloppy fight. For some reason I was surprised that Cyborg didn't enter the ring to "Sandstorm".



Mousasi was the real show here. What a freaking massacre. How does a jiu-jitsu legend get himself into so much trouble on his back in the opening seconds of a fight? Holy crap Babalu looked like a chump.

Melendez looked great as well. What a crushing beat-down.

One thing i thought of was:

After this fight no matter who won. Who the hell are they gonna fight next? Cyborg will be champion for like 15 years and never fight anyone but Gina because no one else is even close to as good as them.....

Seriously

that was pathetic. what a god damn joke

Mousasi looked real good. he looks to have very heavy hands.

much respect to him for not pounding on Sobral once he realized he had him out...I wish more fighters would do that.

I also noticed another thing, neither women have much skills really a side from swinging their hands, I mean they were both gassed with 2 mins in, sloppy striking, Cyborg shoots for a takedown and Gina somehow ends up in a full mount only to give it up 5 seconds later (As if she was doing so well in the standup lol).

I hate to admit it but Dana is right sometimes, and this is one of those times, I truly believe woman's MMA has taken a huge blow tonight.

Gina made a really big mistake by getting up when she was pounding Cyborg, goes to show you how opportunist you have to be to win, it also shows that she's a one trick pony relying on one art of fighting (And even in her own style, she got owned).

I hope this loss makes her a better fighter because this fight was so one sided that it will eventually end woman's MMA.

That is why she got off. Her gameplan was to stand up and fight from the outside. They knew manwoman was much stronger. Which she was. She was afraid of a reversal and being pinned under Cyborg's adam's apple.

That is why she got off. Her gameplan was to stand up and fight from the outside. They knew manwoman was much stronger. Which she was. She was afraid of a reversal and being pinned under Cyborg's adam's apple.

She was getting he face smashed in the stand-up, when you're on top like that, take advantage of it and pound as much as you can, who knows, maybe one of those shots land hard and knock Cyborg out.

But then again, they're women so ;)

She was getting he face smashed in the stand-up, when you're on top like that, take advantage of it and pound as much as you can, who knows, maybe one of those shots land hard and knock Cyborg out.

But then again, they're women so ;)

Im getting a little tired of all the woman bashing on here. Either one of those ladies would kick anyone's ass whose is talking about it on here. That much I am sure of. Cyborg is a beast. No woman that is on the scene right now can beat her.

It wasn't pathetic but I see what some people are saying about women's MMA. The talen level isn't up to par with the guys and the divisons have a definite lack of depth. Kind of the same problem in boxing. Ali and not much else. But both girls came to fight and I don't think people should make that big of a stink about the talent. I mean (no offense intended) but women's bball isn't the same talent as the guys obviously. All of that being said both girls would pwn me in 10 seconds or less and I have a ton of respect for them. Some of the bashing on here is stupid, no one talking about them has ever felt the nerves of going into a cage.

And if this is your first time seeing Gegard, he's that good. Nothing lucky about it. He just makes people look bad. I mean this is just f***ing sick.

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Im getting a little tired of all the woman bashing on here. Either one of those ladies would kick anyone's ass whose is talking about it on here. That much I am sure of. Cyborg is a beast. No woman that is on the scene right now can beat her.

I take it you're a girl or a supporter of feminism ;)

Either way, I'm not bashing woman's mma, in fact I was very excited about this fight, but facts are facts, a side from these two there aren't any good female fighters out there, and this fight being so one sided did not help either, not to mention that hardcore mma fans who actually watch the sport often will agree on the lack of skills these two women showed tonight.

I take it you're a girl or a supporter of feminism ;)

Either way, I'm not bashing woman's mma, in fact I was very excited about this fight, but facts are facts, a side from these two there aren't any good female fighters out there, and this fight being so one sided did not help either, not to mention that hardcore mma fans who actually watch the sport often will agree on the lack of skills these two women showed tonight.

I didnt mean to come off like I was attacking you. I agree with your assessment of the fight. I just get tired of the ignorant comments about woman's mma. I am not a feminist or a female btw. Just an mma fan.

And if this is your first time seeing Gegard, he's that good. Nothing lucky about it. He just makes people look bad. I mean this is just f***ing sick.

The difference between the Mousasi of tonight and the Mousasi of the other nights is that tonight, he beat a solid LHW with ease, I think training with Fedor is paying off, not to mention that he's an amazing striker, and ONLY 24 :amazed:

This guy would be a perfect matchup against Andersson Silva, and I would have no problem picking Mousasi for the win.

That is why she got off. Her gameplan was to stand up and fight from the outside. They knew manwoman was much stronger. Which she was. She was afraid of a reversal and being pinned under Cyborg's adam's apple.

She shouldn't have been afraid of a reversal the mount is an extremely dominate position. she should have kept raining down the blows until cyborg either gave her back up or moved to half guard.

if you have the mount you rain down blows like no tomorrow

Like you said only 24. Can you say unlimited potential?

She shouldn't have been afraid of a reversal the mount is an extremely dominate position. she should have kept raining down the blows until cyborg either gave her back up or moved to half guard.

if you have the mount you rain down blows like no tomorrow

I think the real reason Gina got up was because she felt something poking her.

Crazy fight....Cyborg's just a beast. Who can beat her?

Gina with a better game plan. She's stronger than Cyborg (she reversed most of the takedown attempts and landed on top), she's just tentative and that's bad. It's part of her shy personality. If she can fix her head, she could easily beat Cyborg. She did too much covering up and that's not going to stop someone from hitting you.

Awful card, from the production to the one sided fights.

Awful card, from the production to the one sided fights.

It was better than the last ufc card.

Gina with a better game plan. She's stronger than Cyborg (she reversed most of the takedown attempts and landed on top), she's just tentative and that's bad. It's part of her shy personality. If she can fix her head, she could easily beat Cyborg. She did too much covering up and that's not going to stop someone from hitting you.

She should ditch Xtreme Couture and join Greg Jackson is she want's to beat Cyborg.

She should ditch Xtreme Couture and join Greg Jackson is she want's to beat Cyborg.

I dont think it will matter much. She is waaaaaay outmatched in the strength and stamina dept.

I dont think it will matter much. She is waaaaaay outmatched in the strength and stamina dept.

You're underestimating what skills can do.

You're underestimating what skills can do.

Did Mir have better skills than Lesnar? Did Randy? Sometimes brute force is enough.

Did Mir have better skills than Lesnar? Did Randy? Sometimes brute force is enough.

Now hand on a sec, Mir was about 30-35 pounds smaller and Couture was 50+ pounds smaller, the size difference between Gina and Cyborg is not that significant, Cyborg is no more than 5-10 pounds bigger, which is something beatable with the right game plan.

If Gina learns to be well rounded and not stick to one art then she has a shot, other than that I don't see anyone beating Cyborg for a long time.

Awful card, from the production to the one sided fights.
agreed.

it seemed like amateur hour. other than the Sobral/Mousasi fight, it was a bunch of 2nd tier fights.

even the main event was very sloppy. they both fought hard but the take downs were sloppy as were the sub attempts.

before tonight, I didn't have a big urge to watch Strikeforce and that hasn't changed much after tonight. however, I will watch when Fedor fights.

I am a big fan of Mauro Ranallo too...so it was good to hear him calling fights again. the showtime dude should go.

I can't wait until M-1 folds. Maybe that's wishful thinking but with their struggles with their event maybe that's a sign of problems to come.

typical North American way of thinking. You want all the best to be in your league. Hockey? NHL only. Basketball? NBA only. MMA? UFC only.

The competition only makes the product better, didn't you know?

I don't think Rosenthal made a mistake, but if he did it was in waiting too long. Sloppy fight. For some reason I was surprised that Cyborg didn't enter the ring to "Sandstorm".



Mousasi was the real show here. What a freaking massacre. How does a jiu-jitsu legend get himself into so much trouble on his back in the opening seconds of a fight? Holy crap Babalu looked like a chump.

Melendez looked great as well. What a crushing beat-down.


:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

typical North American way of thinking. You want all the best to be in your league. Hockey? NHL only. Basketball? NBA only. MMA? UFC only.

The competition only makes the product better, didn't you know?

If the best fighters are in multiple promotions, it's harder for good fights to be put together. Look at boxing. It doesn't matter if the UFC has events in America or all over the world. The main thing is whether the best fights possible are consistently put together.

Gina with a better game plan. She's stronger than Cyborg (she reversed most of the takedown attempts and landed on top), she's just tentative and that's bad. It's part of her shy personality. If she can fix her head, she could easily beat Cyborg. She did too much covering up and that's not going to stop someone from hitting you.

Agreed.

I actually thought it was a pretty good fight. A lot of action. However, how long have Carano's other fights been? I feel like this may have been one of her first 5 min. round fights which is something that definitely helped Cyborg. Cyborg is quite the creature. I give Carano a big chance next year.

typical North American way of thinking. You want all the best to be in your league. Hockey? NHL only. Basketball? NBA only. MMA? UFC only.

The competition only makes the product better, didn't you know?

I was posting on a Strikeforce thread so obviously I don't think UFC only. I also watch DREAM and K-1, check the Japanese thread if you don't believe me. I'll watch any MMA. My only frustration is that fighters like Gegard and Fedor aren't fighting the best. The talent gap between SF and UFC's heavyweight divisions might not be that big but the light heavy division is. Can you imagine Gegard in the UFC LH? The matchups are endless. My initial post may have been a little harsh but I'm just worried MMA is going to turn into boxing, a bunch of meaningless belts without knowing who the best is.

Either way, I'm not bashing woman's mma, in fact I was very excited about this fight, but facts are facts, a side from these two there aren't any good female fighters out there...

Sarah Kaufman (http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/sarah-kaufman-16524) is pretty good. She fights one division below Gina and Cyborg though, so the chances of Strikeforce tracking down decent fights for her and promoting them are slim to nil. Megumi Fujii (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9i43EAggzhk) is pretty badass... but she's only 115lbs and fights in Japan.

The production was brutal. I'm glad I d/l it so I could ff through the between-fight banter. Also, what was with those "keys to victory?"

I really have to give Gegard major props for the beating he layed on Babalu and the respect he showed when Babalu went limp. There is a lot of guys who would've kept throwing shots til the ref stopped them.

What is the length of the contract he signed with Strikeforce? A Machida/Mousasi fight down the road would be epic.

I really have to give Gegard major props for the beating he layed on Babalu and the respect he showed when Babalu went limp. There is a lot of guys who would've kept throwing shots til the ref stopped them.

What is the length of the contract he signed with Strikeforce? A Machida/Mousasi fight down the road would be epic.

I was extremely impressed with that as well - major props to Mousasi. I wish more fighters would show that kind of respect for their fellow athletes.

I was also surprised at Babalu's showing, honestly. He looked tentative and nonchalant out there. It didn't seem like he was in the zone mentally at all, based on how he was carrying himself during the fight.

Im getting a little tired of all the woman bashing on here. Either one of those ladies would kick anyone's ass whose is talking about it on here. That much I am sure of..
Lol, that is absurd. These ladies are great fighters, for WOMEN. It is a completely different ballgame fighting a man. Let's keep things in perspective here.

Lol, that is absurd. These ladies are great fighters, for WOMEN. It is a completely different ballgame fighting a man. Let's keep things in perspective here.

Pretty sure either Carano or Cyborg would **** you up. Just sayin'.

Pretty sure either Carano or Cyborg would **** you up. Just sayin'.
I'm not exactly sure why someone would want to form an opinion on something they quite frankly have no idea about. Pure speculation is all it would be. I have no doubt that there are plenty of people on these boards who would wreck either of these two. They were sloppy when fighting each other, imagine how bad they'd look against any guy who is an even somewhat capable fighter who would have 50+ pounds on them and a tremendous strength/striking/wrestling/advantage. They are tough, for girls.

Ishida has filed a complaint with the CSAC claiming that Gilbert Melendez greased.

f4wonline.com

I'm not exactly sure why someone would want to form an opinion on something they quite frankly have no idea about. Pure speculation is all it would be. I have no doubt that there are plenty of people on these boards who would wreck either of these two. They were sloppy when fighting each other, imagine how bad they'd look against any guy who is an even somewhat capable fighter who would have 50+ pounds on them and a tremendous strength/striking/wrestling/advantage. They are tough, for girls.
why would they be allowed to fight someone that has 50 lbs on them? They don't let anyone do that.

why would they be allowed to fight someone that has 50 lbs on them? They don't let anyone do that.
I was just responding to someone who had said these two would beat the hell out of anyone posting on here, and I strongly disagree. I think any decent sized guy who is pretty athletic who has been in some fights would take either of these two without too much trouble.

If we're talking these girls fighting a guy in a similar weight class, could you imagine what someone like Brown, Faber or BJ Penn (at 155) would do to these two? Dear God. Again, I don't mean to take anything away from them and I certainly have a lot of respect for what they do, but they are great fighters, for women.

why would they be allowed to fight someone that has 50 lbs on them? They don't let anyone do that.

...except in the men's HW division.

The competition only makes the product better, didn't you know?
I just had this discussion with someone else and couldn't disagree more. How would hockey be better if you split the top talent from around the world into say 3-4 leagues. That would be terrible for the fans. It's even worse in a one-on-one sport because if you have say 4 organizations, then you have 4 champions at each weight class, and thus the "who's better than who" debates go on and on forever. One organization puts all those questions to rest, and offers by far the best possible fights. It's pretty much common sense that all of the best fighters in one organization equals much better fights than if the fighters are spread throughout 3 or 4 of them. I really don't even see how that's debatable.

I was just responding to someone who had said these two would beat the hell out of anyone posting on here, and I strongly disagree. I think any decent sized guy who is pretty athletic who has been in some fights would take either of these two without too much trouble.

If we're talking these girls fighting a guy in a similar weight class, could you imagine what someone like Brown, Faber or BJ Penn (at 155) would do to these two? Dear God. Again, I don't mean to take anything away from them and I certainly have a lot of respect for what they do, but they are great fighters, for women.

These are professional fighters. Do you have any idea how big of a difference there is between a professional fighter and some noob who thinks he is tough because he beat up a couple of guys in a row? You have no idea.

http://http://www.fugly.com/pictures/16208/head_up_ass.html

These are professional fighters. Do you have any idea how big of a difference there is between a professional fighter and some noob who thinks he is tough because he beat up a couple of guys in a row? You have no idea.

http://http://www.fugly.com/pictures/16208/head_up_ass.html

I think we're being invaded by http://www.thefistfactory.com/Images/sherdog.jpg

These are professional fighters. Do you have any idea how big of a difference there is between a professional fighter and some noob who thinks he is tough because he beat up a couple of guys in a row? You have no idea.
Absolutely. A guy like Brown, Faber, Penn, etc. would wreck an athletic guy in a matter of seconds. No question about it. But do you realize how big a difference there is between a man and a woman? That is my point here.

I just had this discussion with someone else and couldn't disagree more. How would hockey be better if you split the top talent from around the world into say 3-4 leagues. That would be terrible for the fans. It's even worse in a one-on-one sport because if you have say 4 organizations, then you have 4 champions at each weight class, and thus the "who's better than who" debates go on and on forever. One organization puts all those questions to rest, and offers by far the best possible fights. It's pretty much common sense that all of the best fighters in one organization equals much better fights than if the fighters are spread throughout 3 or 4 of them. I really don't even see how that's debatable.

Totally agree :nod:

Took this beauty from MMAmania, quite shocking:

Gegard Mousasi: $2,000 (no win bonus)
Renato Sobral: $75,000
Mousasi defeated Sobral via technical knockout (strikes) at 1:00 of round one

It isn't a typo either, he really only got 2,000 from Strikeforce for that fight. Surely there has to be more to the story.

Took this beauty from MMAmania, quite shocking:



It isn't a typo either, he really only got 2,000 from Strikeforce for that fight. Surely there has to be more to the story.

And UFC are the bad guys !!! :laugh:

I'm guessing he's probably under contract with Dream or M-1, and they're paying his salary, with Strikeforce then compensating his employer for his services.

And UFC are the bad guys !!! :laugh:

For a minutes work. That's approaching your hourly rate Benson.

For the fans, having fights be unavailable for the time being due to fighters being in different companies might be a little disappointing.

For the fighters, having more than one viable employment option is a very, very good thing.


I also think it's a good thing that there are other organizations with reasonable-calibre competition, so that UFC isn't scouring Backyardcagefights.com and Imgonnakickyourass.com for their next big star. I mean, I do kind of look at it kind of like developmental leagues, which probably isn't the way Strikeforce would like to see themselves, but I think that's the reality: guys who build enough of a reputation will get signed by UFC on their next contract, and Strikeforce will find somebody else.

Mousasi and Fedor will fight in UFC sooner or later.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news;_ylt=AuieotmKN_6GCOJTT1Aelac9Eo14?slug=mmajun kie-Ishida_alleges_Melendez_greased&prov=mmajunkie&type=lgns

Ishida claims Melendez Greased.

I'm guessing he's probably under contract with Dream or M-1, and they're paying his salary, with Strikeforce then compensating his employer for his services.

Yeah, remember how Fedor "only" made $300K at Affliction 1 compared to Sylvia's $800K, then later it turned out he really pocketed like $3M or something? Obviously Mousasi got way more than $2K to fight, obviously it won't be Fedor money but I'd be almost certain that it's more than $50K.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news;_ylt=AuieotmKN_6GCOJTT1Aelac9Eo14?slug=mmajun kie-Ishida_alleges_Melendez_greased&prov=mmajunkie&type=lgns

Ishida claims Melendez Greased.

Perhaps he thinks Melendez greased his groin to allow him to sprawl, since almost all of Ishida's takedown attempts were single-legs that Melendez simply sprawled out of.

Yeah, remember how Fedor "only" made $300K at Affliction 1 compared to Sylvia's $800K, then later it turned out he really pocketed like $3M or something? Obviously Mousasi got way more than $2K to fight, obviously it won't be Fedor money but I'd be almost certain that it's more than $50K.

Exactly.

Exactly.

You guys are probably right about it, but 2G seems pretty weak, even in that case. If it is exactly how you guys see it, compensation from Strikeforce on top of his payment from M1, they could've at least thrown him 20G, IMO.

Depending on how taxes work for both the promoter and the fighter, it might not be. If the guy's getting paid that's all that matters, really.

Ok, I'm finally back. Caught all the important fights the next day, and can't say I'm surprised at any of the outcomes.

Gina/Cyborg looked sloppy and seemed like it could have gone either way going into the fight. I still stand by what I say, women's MMA just isn't there yet. There aren't enough compelling fights yet to continually sell cards. They've shown many highlights on Inside MMA of talented women fighters, but as a whole, the division is just not worthy of much attention yet.

Mousasi/Babalu was a work of art. I had four friends at the fight, none of whom had seen any of Mousasi's work in Japan, so they all got big "I told you so's" from me. Also, regarding Mousasi to the UFC, keep in mind that his personal goals right now require him to stay away from non-exclusive contracts. He's stated that he wants to try to box in the next year. Strikeforce's flexibility and connection with Showtime make that more possible than anything the UFC wants to offer. At 24, I think he'll eventually be in the UFC, so there's not so much urgency. And before people start calling on him to head there to fight Machida, I'd like to see him put up another big win or two at 205 before we start making comparisons.

Ishida/Melendez went down exactly how I predicted. I thought that if Melendez had the benefit of a 3x5 scoring system when the two fought in Pride, he would have taken their first fight as well.

Werdum choked out Mike Kyle? You don't say.

Could have gone either way on JT vs. Hieron, figured that Taylor's wrestling pedigree would have him ekeing out a somewhat boring decision. In any case, I don't buy the hype on Hieron, his striking is extremely clean and he's a great athlete, but when it comes to the end of the day his wins are against middle to sub-par competition. Diaz would have been a great and better test.