UFC 105 - 3PM EST - Discussion thread (MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS)

http://www.extremejohn.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/ufc-105-predictions.jpg

MAIN CARD
Randy Couture vs. Brandon Vera
Dan Hardy vs. Mike Swick
Michael Bisping vs. Denis Kang
Matt Brown vs. James Wilks
Ross Pearson vs. Aaron Riley

PRELIMINARY CARD
Terry Etim vs. Shannon Gugerty
John Hathaway vs. Paul Taylor
Nick Osipczak vs. Matthew Riddle
Paul Kelly vs. Dennis Siver
Alexander Gustafsson vs. Jared Hamman
Roli Delgado vs. Andre Winner

All 5 of the of the main card fights have the potential to be very exciting. I'm really looking forward to Kang handing Bisping his 2nd loss in a row (fingers crossed).

What's everyones' thoughts on Randy/Vera? I'm leaning heavy towards Vera but I have a hard time betting against Randy. Can Vera keep the distance and pick him apart?

I'm glad this one is on Spike. I couldn't justify dropping $50 on it.

What time is this on? Eastern....?

Im looking forward to Swick vs Hardy

I'm glad this one is on Spike. I couldn't justify dropping $50 on it.

Same here. Even though I'm a pretty big Vera/Kang fan, this card isn't worth the PPV charge. That being said, it's a very good free card.

What time is this on? Eastern....?

Im looking forward to Swick vs Hardy

I think you can watch it live @ 3 pm EST (Sportsnet for Canadian viewers) or on tape delay @ 9 pm EST.

I'm quite interested in all 3 of the main fights. Hopefully this is the fight that brings out Vera's full potential (but I've been hoping for that for quite some time), the guys has the skills to be a champion, if he can ever get his head on the game completely.

Hopefully Etim has a nice finish and gets shown on the broadcast, the kid seems to get better each time he fights.

vBookie events are up.

Same here. Even though I'm a pretty big Vera/Kang fan, this card isn't worth the PPV charge. That being said, it's a very good free card.



I think you can watch it live @ 3 pm EST (Sportsnet for Canadian viewers) or on tape delay @ 9 pm EST.

I'm quite interested in all 3 of the main fights. Hopefully this is the fight that brings out Vera's full potential (but I've been hoping for that for quite some time), the guys has the skills to be a champion, if he can ever get his head on the game completely.

Hopefully Etim has a nice finish and gets shown on the broadcast, the kid seems to get better each time he fights.


That's actually awesome that Sportsnet is showing it live at 3, don't have to stay in saturday night to watch this card. It's on Spike at 8pm EST, though not at 9.

As for the main fight, i'm taking Vera over Couture. Spike has been showing some of Vera's fights on TV over the past few days and I forgot how scary this guy can be.

Should we come up with a separate discussion thread for USA and Canadian viewers?

It's a serious test for Vera too... and a kind of strange one in that it's hard to knock either fighter down the rankings if they lose. Randy Couture is legit.

That's actually awesome that Sportsnet is showing it live at 3, don't have to stay in saturday night to watch this card. It's on Spike at 8pm EST, though not at 9.


Unfortunately it looks like only Sportsnet East and Ontario are airing it live :rant: Out west I can't catch until it's on SPIKE at 5 in the evening local time, since I don't get either of those channels. I have no clue why it's not live on S-Pac, they're showing two hours of DARTS instead :help:

Unfortunately it looks like only Sportsnet East and Ontario are airing it live :rant: Out west I can't catch until it's on SPIKE at 5 in the evening local time, since I don't get either of those channels. I have no clue why it's not live on S-Pac, they're showing two hours of DARTS instead :help:

I'd watch that closely, I wouldn't be surprised if that changes. I've found them to be lacking in their TV listings updates quite regularly.

God, I hope so.

Late breakfast and live MMA wouldn't be a bad way to start a Saturday.

Vera's a talented guy, but something about him rubs me the wrong way, so I hope Randy can get inside and rough him up for three rounds.

Other than that I'm hoping Hardy can pull of the upset and cheering for Kang (gotta go with the hometown boy).

Should we come up with a separate discussion thread for USA and Canadian viewers?

Maybe just spoiler tags until it airs everywhere?

I'm interested to see if Vera uses all his tools for this fight. People seem to forget that he's a world class wrestler and has a very sick BJJ game. Lately he's looked like a straight Muay Thai guy, I'd like to see him use everything to keep Randy off guard.

It's going to be interesting to watch it play out, Vera holds an advantage on the feet, but he's also very capable in the areas which are the Naturals' strength (Clinch game and Rastl'n). I know Sosynzki is no Randy, but Vera showed how good his TDD was in that fight. I have high hopes for Brandon, I think this could be the fight that gets him going towards a shot at the title. Mind you my views are extremely slanted in Veras' favour.

In regards to the Bisping/Kang fight, I can't see anyway Bisping wins this fight, Kang is just better in every aspect of the game. Hopefully his training at ATT helps remove the brain farts, like when he dominated Belcher and then dove neck first into a choke. :shakehead

I'm a big fan of Hardy but I don't know how he can beat Swick at this point in his career, Swick is too experienced for him, IMO. This is a win win fight for Hardy though, even if he loses but puts on a good showing he's gonna gain alot more respect.

God that's a weak card. Didn't Couture retire after the Lesnar fight? Wasn't he done with the UFC?

I hope Matt Brown tears James Wilks apart. That should be a very entertaining match.

I hadn't followed anything about this card, but I looked at the list of fighters and said "oh, they're in England again."

I don't know if Terry Etim is especially good, but he's just flat-out entertaining. You just have to like him.

A lot of the fighters on this card have had exciting fights recently. Putting a group like this on free TV could win the UFC some new fans.


God that's a weak card. Didn't Couture retire after the Lesnar fight? Wasn't he done with the UFC?

Did you honestly forget the Couture-Nogueira fight, or are you just trying to be a tool?

Did you honestly forget the Couture-Nogueira fight, or are you just trying to be a tool?

All he does is troll anything that has a remotely North American aspect to it (whether it be the UFC or the NHL). Don't know how he still hasn't been banned.

I hadn't followed anything about this card, but I looked at the list of fighters and said "oh, they're in England again."

I don't know if Terry Etim is especially good, but he's just flat-out entertaining. You just have to like him.

A lot of the fighters on this card have had exciting fights recently. Putting a group like this on free TV could win the UFC some new fans.




Did you honestly forget the Couture-Nogueira fight, or are you just trying to be a tool?

Wow completely forgot about that fight. I need a vacation! Anyway, should be a easy win for Randy, he is super skilled, very tough and and one of the most experienced fighters out there.

All he does is troll anything that has a remotely North American aspect to it (whether it be the UFC or the NHL). Don't know how he still hasn't been banned.

Ha! Don't worry, i will be around longer then you will. :p:

Wow completely forgot about that fight. I need a vacation! Anyway, should be a easy win for Randy, he is super skilled, very tough and and one of the most experienced fighters out there.

One thing is certain, I bet the winner of this fight won't be thinking it was "easy". It's going to be a very close fight and I would imagine both guys are gonna get tagged a few times.

I think it's a smart move by Dana and the UFC to make this free on Spike. Strikeforce just came in and put the number one fighter in the world on national television for free. It's smart that they put this free on Spike. As good as the UFC is, they always seem to have this elite connotation to it that others like Strikeforce, Sengoku, DREAM, etc have, which are free, and have some really good fights and fighters as well. So it's good that the UFC shows they're willing to take the hit to show the MMA fans what they're missing if they're already not watching the UFC.

One thing is certain, I bet the winner of this fight won't be thinking it was "easy". It's going to be a very close fight and I would imagine both guys are gonna get tagged a few times.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. It's a pretty confusing division lately, no real clarity on the top-10 pecking order. You can make compelling arguments that both fighters belong in the top-10, but with out either of them fighting a top-10 LHW recently it's hard to say where. And if it's close, it's hard to say that even the loser doesn't belong in the discussion still. Same goes for the Ortiz/Griffin fight.

I'd rank the UFC LHW division something like this:


Machida
Rua
Jackson
Evans
A. Silva
Vera
Couture
Ortiz
Griffin
T. Silva

Just outside the top 10 (for now) - Liddell, Cane, Jardine, Nogueria

Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. It's a pretty confusing division lately, no real clarity on the top-10 pecking order. You can make compelling arguments that both fighters belong in the top-10, but with out either of them fighting a top-10 LHW recently it's hard to say where. And if it's close, it's hard to say that even the loser doesn't belong in the discussion still. Same goes for the Ortiz/Griffin fight.

I'd rank the UFC LHW division something like this:


Machida
Rua
Jackson
Evans
A. Silva
Vera
Couture
Ortiz
Griffin
T. Silva

Just outside the top 10 (for now) - Liddell, Cane, Jardine, Nogueria

I have it:

Shogun
Machida
A. Silva
Rampage
Evans
T. Silva
Vera
Couture
Ortiz
Griffin

You guys really like Vera, eh? I take it that's assuming there's no way Hendo's back either.

I have it:

Shogun
Machida
A. Silva
Rampage
Evans
T. Silva
Vera
Couture
Ortiz
Griffin

Evans is ahead of Rampage IMO

I just don't really conisder Henderson as a regular in this division.

And I think Rampage is a hair above Evans for now, until Evans proves otherwise.
Posted via Mobile Device

You guys really like Vera, eh? I take it that's assuming there's no way Hendo's back either.

Yeah i don't get it either. What has very done to be in the top 10 of any thing? Beat Frank Mir 3 years ago?

Here i will post his wiki page so you guys can see his record on the bottom.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Vera

Besides Frank Mir he has lost to all the experienced fighters he faced.

If Randy loses it will only be due to age catching up to him.

Only really interested in Swick/Hardy.

Oh, and only live on the two Sportsnet regions as mentioned ITT. That's them trying to force you to order all 4 channelsM
Posted via Mobile Device

Yeah i don't get it either. What has very done to be in the top 10 of any thing? Beat Frank Mir 3 years ago?

Here i will post his wiki page so you guys can see his record on the bottom.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Vera

Besides Frank Mir he has lost to all the experienced fighters he faced.

If Randy loses it will only be due to age catching up to him.

If Randy wins it's because he's still a top fighter in the sport. If he loses it's because Vera has that much potential. I think he deserves some slack, as the HWs were simply too big for Vera, and it takes time to adjust to a lower weight class IMO. If he loses to Couture, then goes and loses to someone like Jardine again, then I take everything back. I'm just optimistic about him.
Posted via Mobile Device

Yeah i don't get it either. What has very done to be in the top 10 of any thing? Beat Frank Mir 3 years ago?
.

Maybe you should try actually watching him fight rather than reading about him on wikipedia. He fought in the heavyweight division for too long when he should have been fighting as LHW. I remember seeing an interview with him one time where Vera basically said the reason he liked fighting at heavy was because he liked eating junk food and didn't want to cut weight. The guy has a lot of talent, and I think he's gonna surprise a lot of people tomorrow who don't know much about him.

Evans is ahead of Rampage IMO

There's no way Rashad is above Rampage. Rampage has only lost one fight in the last 4 years (fighting mostly all top tier guys) and a lot of people (myself included) think he won that fight.

If Randy wins it's because he's still a top fighter in the sport. If he loses it's because Vera has that much potential. I think he deserves some slack, as the HWs were simply too big for Vera, and it takes time to adjust to a lower weight class IMO. If he loses to Couture, then goes and loses to someone like Jardine again, then I take everything back. I'm just optimistic about him.
Posted via Mobile Device

Well said.

He had never cut weight in his life, so it was only natural that it was going to take him a while to get comfortable at 205. His only loss at 205 thus far was against Jardine (solid fighter) and it was a very close fight. If Vera were to fight him again now that he is comfortable with the weight cut, I think he takes the fight fairly easily.

While he didn't finish his last fight I thought he looked incredible, he dominated the Polish Experiment from start to finish while taking next to no damage. Krystoff is a very good fighter, to tool him the way he did tells me that Vera is finally on his way to living up to all that potential.

I know the in thing to do now is talk about how over-rated Vera is and how Randy is over the hill, but I'll stay off that trash wagon. Make no mistake about it, Vera and Randy are top 15 LHWs (top 10 in my eyes) and this is a very relevant fight.

All aboard the Brandon Vera War Wagon, choo choo.

Vera's got a ton of potential at LHW. I just don't think he deserves a spot in the top-10, until he beats someone a little tougher or strings together more than 2-wins in a row... both of which could happen tomorrow, but until that point, what's he done to warrant that kind of ranking?

Almost forgot, did anyone else catch the weigh-ins? The Kang/Bisping square off was outstanding, about as in each others face as you could be. :handclap:

Vera's got a ton of potential at LHW. I just don't think he deserves a spot in the top-10, until he beats someone a little tougher or strings together more than 2-wins in a row... both of which could happen tomorrow, but until that point, what's he done to warrant that kind of ranking?

Can't really argue that.

Hopefully he makes his mark tomorrow. I really hope he comes through, he is one of the few fighters at 205 (along with Cane) that have the standup ability to give Machida problems. That being said, he's a few wins away from even worrying about that.

Vera's got a ton of potential at LHW. I just don't think he deserves a spot in the top-10, until he beats someone a little tougher or strings together more than 2-wins in a row... both of which could happen tomorrow, but until that point, what's he done to warrant that kind of ranking?

I'd consider my rankings to be more where I see fighters at right now, moreso than where they've had the opportunity to establish themselves. Not all of them have been getting fights in the division, have just recently returned, etc.

Almost forgot, did anyone else catch the weigh-ins? The Kang/Bisping square off was outstanding, about as in each others face as you could be. :handclap:

I missed it live. I'm going to watch it in the next hour or so.

It was a pretty uneventful weigh-in, but the Kang/Bisping faceoff was epic. I don't know if I'm being a Canadian homer but I just can't see anyway Bisping beats Kang. Now that Kang is back at ATT on a full time basis I think he's gonna string a few impressive victories off in a row.

Only really interested in Swick/Hardy.

Oh, and only live on the two Sportsnet regions as mentioned ITT. That's them trying to force you to order all 4 channelsM
Posted via Mobile Device

Anyone know if it will be on Sportsnet HD?

Maybe you should try actually watching him fight rather than reading about him on wikipedia. He fought in the heavyweight division for too long when he should have been fighting as LHW. I remember seeing an interview with him one time where Vera basically said the reason he liked fighting at heavy was because he liked eating junk food and didn't want to cut weight. The guy has a lot of talent, and I think he's gonna surprise a lot of people tomorrow who don't know much about him.

God forbid facts get in the way of a MMA discussion. Where he has fought and what you personally think of how good he is doesn't defeat the fact that he hasn't done **** yet. That Dana White koolaid must be tasty.

Skip this, watch the Cotto/Pacquiao fight.

Will be money well spent, guaranteed.

Oh, and for people curious on the Couture/Vera outcome, if it goes to the ground it's an easy UD for Randy.

I don't have a crystal ball! But that's my fair prediction.

God forbid facts get in the way of a MMA discussion. Where he has fought and what you personally think of how good he is doesn't defeat the fact that he hasn't done **** yet. That Dana White koolaid must be tasty.

I hope you're more useful elsewhere in the HFBoardsiverse than you are here.

Anyone know if it will be on Sportsnet HD?

I'm not sure though it's definitely worth checking. It's weird though, it turns out I actually get Sportsnet Ontario, but the schedule on my TV says that they're airing other content at noon today instead of 105. I'm not sure if it's just not up to date or if they're actually regionally blocking things as well. :(

I think you can watch it live @ 3 pm EST (Sportsnet for Canadian viewers) or on tape delay @ 9 pm EST.

Ok, I'm in BC... and as far as I can tell, I can only watch this on Spike at 5pm (Pacific time). It looks like Sportsnet Pacific has soccer (!) and darts (!!) on during when the live event ought to be running.

Sportsnet Ontario and East have the event live (and replay it again at 8pm Eastern time), but Sportsnet West doesn't air it until 8pm Mountain time, and Sportsnet Pacific is only airing it at 8pm Pacific.


Screw you, Sportsnet! I'll watch it on Spike.

edit to add:
Sportsnet's schedule
http://www.sportsnet.ca/tvschedule/

While looking for TV coverage I noticed this.
http://www.sportsnet.ca/mma/2009/11/13/vera_couture/
Randy says that cutting to 205 was easy, because he's only walking around at 216... and that beefing up to 220+ for fights at heavyweight is a lot of work and not much fun for him.

On Bell ExpressVu, my guide is showing it in HD on channel 846.

Skip this, watch the Cotto/Pacquiao fight.

Will be money well spent, guaranteed.

Oh, and for people curious on the Couture/Vera outcome, if it goes to the ground it's an easy UD for Randy.

I don't have a crystal ball! But that's my fair prediction.

I'm going to be watching both UFC (at 3PM EST, live, via HQ stream) and the Pac/Cotto fight... If I had to choose I'd definitely watch the boxing match though.


Anyone who wants the stream link (it is a paid stream) check my profile page. Stop PMing me you basterds.

I'm going to be watching both UFC (at 3PM EST, live, via HQ stream) and the Pac/Cotto fight... If I had to choose I'd definitely watch the boxing match though.

Yaki, hook up the HQ stream link. Pm me.

Ah, should've known.

I'm in Ontario, but I don't 105 live on the regular Sportsnet (ch. 27 on Rogers). So eff UFC today then lol.
Posted via Mobile Device

Ah, should've known.

I'm in Ontario, but I don't 105 live on the regular Sportsnet (ch. 27 on Rogers). So eff UFC today then lol.
Posted via Mobile Device

yeah I'm getting the countdown show on Sportsnet Ontario too, so I'm stuck watching a stream. :-\

yeah I'm getting the countdown show on Sportsnet Ontario too, so I'm stuck watching a stream. :-\

What the **** is going on with Sportsnet? This is bull. Stupid useless channel.

.......And it's on now.

Same thing in Calgary.

Never ending propoganda cycle.

Sportsnet got some splain' to do.

Same thing in Calgary.

Never ending propoganda cycle.

Sportsnet got some splain' to do.

Sportsnet West isn't showing it until the evening, if you get Sportsnet East or Ontario, try that. I've got it on Ontario now, but it's 20 minutes behind the live results, so be careful of spoilers :D. I'll refrain from posting any.

First fight was just a domination. Great job of controlling the center line of his opponent by Pearson.

Good performance by Brown, although he could have finished him but made a mistake that could have cost him against a more proficient fighter. That 6 punch combo was tight, solid start to the body and then just teed off. Wow, I thought that kimura was going to finish it but Brown survived well and then it was basically all over.

I'm becoming a pretty big Brown fan. He's never going to win a title in the UFC but he's fun to watch without having to fight like an idiot to do so.

And, can Delgado finally be done after this? Does Joe Silva just love that he's got such long arms and legs?

Holy **** what a KO.


Not sure what the ref was doing... In that situation you have to tackle Winner, not kneel next to him and put your arm in...

I like that the ref told him to go get his sponsor shirt before they announced him the winner.

Let's go KANG

Let's go KANG

Only way I see Bisping winning this is by decision, he's no submission threat and I don't think he hits hard enough to put Kang out. Kang should be able to use his wrestling to control the action if he's smart.

e: huh, I knew Kang had mixed heritage but I always thought he gave his nationality as Canadian, not French.

I think Kang is gonna win this. He is vastly underrated.

I think the UFC always uses where you're born, unless you're an army brat or something. I think I remember PRIDE billing him as just Korean a few times. Probably depending on if he was fighting a Japanese fighter or not.

Bisping is doing a decent job here, I'm a bit surprised. I figured he was going to just give his back up from the mount.

Kang showing why he never made it big in Pride. Just doesn't have the killer instinct.

When Bisping throws his jab he's just opening himself up for the right every time.

Kang looks worse and worse every time i see him fight.

Ugh, Kang...

Beautiful lead right...


Great fight. Solid dirty boxing, some good rallying counters in the second by Swick, some great exchanges, good grappling along the cage....

Neither of those guys are ready for a title shot.

Never saw any of the other fights yet, except for Bisping/Kang, and dang... Kang has been a huge disappointment in the UFC. It looked like he gave up in that fight... the will to win just wasn't there.

Hardy has the skills...just doesn't have the brains it seems.

Surprising :sarcasm:

What is the uproar about? I would give that fight to neither of them if I could. Yeah Vera you got a mount, and you didn't land a single strike while you had him mounted, and then you let him get up and tag you with a few punches upon getting up. Vera landed a few good kicks, Randy landed more than a few good dirty boxing strikes. Randy dominated octagon control and the pacing of the fight. It could have went either way, 29-28 depending on what you think determines rounds.

I had it

Round 1- Randy
Round 2- Vera
Round 3- Randy

Brandon Vera - "Thanks JUDGES!" Hahaha.

I agree with the decision though, Vera was outmatched for most of the fight.

I usually don't mind Joe Rogan but he just seemed like a dope watching his first MMA fight tonight. Vera landing a kick does not a win make.

Couture controlled the fight, dictated the pace, and probably landed as many strikes.

I gave the first and third round to Couture, with Vera getting the second. The third was close but I don't feel that Vera sitting on Randy in the mount and doing absolutely nothing should count for much.

Pretty dull fight, though. Man, does Couture look fragile as he gets older. The days when it was impossible to knock him down seem like ancient history now.

You know it's bad when someone wins a decision then the first thing they talk about is how bad judging has been lately.

Congratulations to Randy I guess? He looked terrible tonight and shouldn't have won that decision.

Plain and simple, you shouldn't be able to win a fight by pushing a guy up against a cage for 10 minutes and inflicting minimal damage. Vera hurt Randy bad more than once, and then Randy used his strength advantage to pin Vera against the cage and pray for the decision. I knew this would happen as soon as the fight ended.

Another contradiction by MMA judges too. Machida beat Shogun for doing more to "finish the fight", despite Shogun controlling the pace of the fight the entire time. Vera loses by decision despite clearly doing more to finish the fight, while Randy the snuggie bear cuddled with Vera for 3 rounds.

**** me I hate MMA judging, casual fans who watched 104 & 105 must be starting to get turned off by the sport after 2 horrible main events.

I usually don't mind Joe Rogan but he just seemed like a dope watching his first MMA fight tonight. Vera landing a kick does not a win make.

Couture controlled the fight, dictated the pace, and probably landed as many strikes.

I gave the first and third round to Couture, with Vera getting the second. The third was close but I don't feel that Vera sitting on Randy in the mount and doing absolutely nothing should count for much.

Pretty dull fight, though. Man, does Couture look fragile as he gets older. The days when it was impossible to knock him down seem like ancient history now.

Let them complain. Couture controlled this fight from start to finish minus the couple shots Vera landed in the 2nd. Vera did absolutely nothing up against the cage. The knees, elbows, and punches that Couture was throwing in the clinch all add up.

Let them complain. Couture controlled this fight from start to finish minus the couple shots Vera landed in the 2nd. Vera did absolutely nothing up against the cage. The knees, elbows, and punches that Couture was throwing in the clinch all add up.

Machida got a lot of credit from the judges for stuffing all of Shoguns takedown attempts. Why is Vera receiving no credit at all for his work in this fight? Even Randy himself said it in the interview after the fight, Veras takedown defense was rock solid tonight. It's almost like that because it was Randy Couture doing absolutely nothing while having a guy pinned up against the cage its seen as "octagon control", but if that was anyone else it would be seen a lot differently.

It's a sad day for MMA when you can win a fight doing what Randy Couture did tonight. It pisses me off even more that I can see the UFC handing Randy yet ANOTHER unwarranted title shot.

Well both of the co-main event winners will/would get destroyed in the title fight.

I think it'd be hilarious if Kerry Vera gets a BS decision win over Kim Couture(even though they're not married anymore) next week.

Machida got a lot of credit from the judges for stuffing all of Shoguns takedown attempts. Why is Vera receiving no credit at all for his work in this fight? Even Randy himself said it in the interview after the fight, Veras takedown defense was rock solid tonight. It's almost like that because it was Randy Couture doing absolutely nothing while having a guy pinned up against the cage its seen as "octagon control", but if that was anyone else it would be seen a lot differently.

It's a sad day for MMA when you can win a fight doing what Randy Couture did tonight. It pisses me off even more that I can see the UFC handing Randy yet ANOTHER unwarranted title shot.

UFC judging needs an overhaul, that's pretty much all there is to it. I didn't like the decision, but Couture did everything to give himself a win in the judges eyes.

It's a sad day for MMA when you can win a fight doing what Randy Couture did tonight. It pisses me off even more that I can see the UFC handing Randy yet ANOTHER unwarranted title shot.

It would be a sad day if Vera won a fight for landing a few good strikes and letting Randy hug him for 15 minutes as well. I'd almost be inclined to call it a 29-29 draw (Rd 1 draw, Rd 2 to Vera, Rd 3 to Randy) but they hate scoring 10-10 rounds, and in Round 1 Vera did squat after the first 15 seconds so it's tough to give him that one.

Vera and Kang are kindred spirits, million-dollar talent but too flaky to put it all together. The fight was there for Vera to take but he didn't maintain distance from Randy.

It would be a sad day if Vera won a fight for landing a few good strikes and letting Randy hug him for 15 minutes as well. I'd almost be inclined to call it a 29-29 draw (Rd 1 draw, Rd 2 to Vera, Rd 3 to Randy) but they hate scoring 10-10 rounds, and in Round 1 Vera did squat after the first 15 seconds so it's tough to give him that one.

Vera and Kang are kindred spirits, million-dollar talent but too flaky to put it all together. The fight was there for Vera to take but he didn't maintain distance from Randy.

Vera did serious damage to Couture twice in that fight with hard kicks, AND got a mount on Randy. We're talking about fighting here, where the guy who does the most damage should win the fight. MMA judging needs a complete overhaul. In Pride judging this fight would have gone to Vera easily.

UFC judging needs an overhaul, that's pretty much all there is to it. I didn't like the decision, but Couture did everything to give himself a win in the judges eyes.

And I can't wait to see him get destroyed by a top tier LHW that the UFC will no doubt set him up with. Randys standup game looked brutal tonight, it's almost like every decent shot that Vera landed rocked Randy.

At least Hardy has a ridiculously strong chin and is an exciting guy to watch, so i'm looking forward to his fight with GSP. Randy has nothing left in the tank and is going to get dismantled in his next fight.

Yeah but at the same time PRIDE judges were known to give fights to guys who would lose the first 18 minutes and win the last two.

And I can't wait to see him get destroyed by a top tier LHW that the UFC will no doubt set him up with. Randys standup game looked brutal tonight, it's almost like every decent shot that Vera landed rocked Randy.

At least Hardy has a ridiculously strong chin and is an exciting guy to watch, so i'm looking forward to his fight with GSP. Randy has nothing left in the tank and is going to get dismantled in his next fight.

If Couture gets a title shot against Machida, it'll be over within 2 minutes. You could pretty much say that with regards to whoever Couture's next opponent is. Unless White sticks him in there with a complete can.

Hardy is going to get mauled by GSP, imo. He'll take him down at will. GSP's strength and wrestling is just on another level compared to Swick.

Vera did serious damage to Couture twice in that fight with hard kicks, AND got a mount on Randy. We're talking about fighting here, where the guy who does the most damage should win the fight. MMA judging needs a complete overhaul. In Pride judging this fight would have gone to Vera easily.

You were complaining about Couture doing nothing in the clinch (which he got at will and maintained throughout the fight) but you want to give Vera points for getting the mount???

That was the saddest full-mount I might have ever seen, and it lasted for about 10 seconds. And he didn't throw a single punch!

Sad to say, but you summed up everything Vera did in that fight in your first sentence; two good kicks and a mount. It wasn't a great fight from either guy, but Couture at least imposed his gameplan, pushed Vera around, and landed some strikes from the clinch.

It was a boring fight, but Couture did enough to win it.

If Couture gets a title shot against Machida, it'll be over within 2 minutes. You could pretty much say that with regards to whoever his next opponent is. Unless White sticks him in there with a complete can.

Hardy is going to get mauled by GSP, imo.

I would like to see Couture get Coleman next, but I think White is gonna stick Couture up against the winner of Shogun / Machida and milk that main event for whatever he can.

I'd assume Dana/Joe were hoping Vera would pull this out. Not that he wouldn't get owned by the Machida/Shogun winner, but it's new blood in a title fight. And they'd just act like his failed hyped up heavyweight run never happened.

it was either a draw or a Vera win... Couture did absolutely nothing, but clinch all match long.
Vera threw a few good punches and his kicks hurt Couture bad.
overall a disapointing fight in an already weak card.

now lets hope Griffin gets destroyed next week.

It's getting harder and harder to be an MMA fan these days. Been a fan since very early in the sport and I'm at the point where if something isn't done very soon to this joke of a system I'm not spending another dime on it.

Randy goes with the 'Hug and Pray' strategy and gets the win?

what a crap main event. The first round was basically randy leaning on vera the entire time. He might have kneed him twice so I guess he deserves the round. He did get a 5 second takedown.
The second round was at least a little better, Vera lands a couple good body kicks and then gets leaned on for most of the round, I guess you can give that to Vera.

The third randy is leaning on vera again. At least this round he finally decided to actually throw punches while hes leaning on Vera and I think that wins him the round.

I wish they could both get a loss for that.

Randy goes with the 'Hug and Pray' strategy and gets the win?pretty much. I guess it beats the "Get Hugged and Pray" style.

1st - Couture
2nd - Vera
3rd - Couture

I really don't know how people didn't see that coming to be honest. Couture controlled the entire fight except for the .... maybe 1:30 of the fight that wasn't fought in the clinch. Was that enough to win the fight for Vera? Hardly.

Brandon Vera has a ten cent head. All the physical skills you could ever want in a fighter, but no idea how to counter Couture's most elementary plan to control the octagon, not get knocked out, and dirty box enough to keep his clinch.

At the end of the day, Couture controlled 13 minutes of that fight. Also of note is that during the other 1:30 of actual fighting time, Vera did manage to rock Couture with a body shot.... but ultimately what does that matter if you lose the rest of the fight?

Every time Couture would lose the clinch, Vera would throw a wildly stupid shot and allow Couture to sneak back in there for the clinch. Couture is a wildly superior grappler and he had that fight on points simply by virtue of octagon control.

If you want to blame anybody for the pace of that fight, then blame the official and blame Vera for not adjusting. Couture's game plan was transparent even from home. If neither the official or Vera cared enough to try to break Couture's clinch, they why should Vera win the fight? Because of a bullshat mount at the end of the fight when Couture was already looking up at the clock? He didn't land one single blow from that position. Again, 1 takedown does not equate to 4:30 of octagon control.

Was it boring as hell? Yes. Was it a Couture win? Yes. Nowhere NEAR as bad of a judges decision as Machida vs. Rua. Not even in the same universe.

What this proved to me is that Couture is done. All he has left is his clinch game and even while in it, he can't do enough damage to end a fight. He was woefully ineffective in the striking game. Had he been fighting a guy even remotely smart enough to counter Couture's clinch and keep him on the perimeter, he would have been knocked out in the second round of this fight.

I guess Couture gets the win based on "octagon control"? Because he didn't do anything of any significance.

I hated the decision, even though by the current judging standards it's probably the right one.



I did enjoy some of the other fights, though.

Ross Pearson was OUTSTANDING! in his fight. Just a terrific display of MMA striking.

Brown vs Wilks was fun as well.


I know everybody hates Michael Bisping, but I enjoyed seeing him kick the crap out of Kang. Bisping's guard in the first round was a lot better than I expected. In the second, he just destroyed Kang, and Bisping hasn't destroyed anybody in years. After all the abuse he took after getting his head punched off by Henderson, this has to feel really good for him.

As for Kang, I feel kind of let down. Based on the amount of hype for Kang, I'd expected a lot better. His performance tonight was ... well, either Michael Bisping has magically transformed into the new master of ground and pound offense, or a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu black-belt just doesn't mean what it used to. Kang's new nickname might be "Mrs Bisping" after tonight.

What else ... a couple of flash knockouts...

Oh yeah, Swick and Hardy. Hardy's fists seem to be coated with gunpowder or something. It seems like he's able to hurt people with the most innocent looking shots.

Swick showed very little. Remember a few months ago how the rumor was that Kampmann and Swick were going to fight for a shot at GSP? And then Kampmann and Swick both immediately go out and lose their next matches in pretty ignominious fashion.

With Hardy, at least there's the remote possibility that one of those gunpowder fists might catch GSP and turn the tables in that fight. If it had been Swick, I don't think there's anything you can say to sell a Swick-GSP match.

Yeah but at the same time PRIDE judges were known to give fights to guys who would lose the first 18 minutes and win the last two.

Couture doesn't win if they're fighting under PRIDE rules:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixed_martial_arts_rules#Judging_Criteria_2
Judging Criteria

If the match reaches its time limit then the outcome of the bout is determined by the three judges. The fight is scored in its entirety and not round-by-round. After the conclusion of the bout, each judge must decide a winner. Matches cannot end in a draw. A decision is made according to the following criteria in this order of priority:

1. the effort made to finish the fight via KO or submission,
2. damage given to the opponent,
3. standing combinations and ground control,
4. takedowns and takedown defense,
5. aggressiveness, and
6. weight (in the case that the weight difference is 10 kg/22 lb or more).

1st - Couture
2nd - Vera
3rd - Couture

I really don't know how people didn't see that coming to be honest. Couture controlled the entire fight except for the .... maybe 1:30 of the fight that wasn't fought in the clinch. Was that enough to win the fight for Vera? Hardly.

Brandon Vera has a ten cent head. All the physical skills you could ever want in a fighter, but no idea how to counter Couture's most elementary plan to control the octagon, not get knocked out, and dirty box enough to keep his clinch.

At the end of the day, Couture controlled 13 minutes of that fight. Also of note is that during the other 1:30 of actual fighting time, Vera did manage to rock Couture with a body shot.... but ultimately what does that matter if you lose the rest of the fight?

Every time Couture would lose the clinch, Vera would throw a wildly stupid shot and allow Couture to sneak back in there for the clinch. Couture is a wildly superior grappler and he had that fight on points simply by virtue of octagon control.

If you want to blame anybody for the pace of that fight, then blame the official and blame Vera for not adjusting. Couture's game plan was transparent even from home. If neither the official or Vera cared enough to try to break Couture's clinch, they why should Vera win the fight? Because of a bullshat mount at the end of the fight when Couture was already looking up at the clock? He didn't land one single blow from that position. Again, 1 takedown does not equate to 4:30 of octagon control.

Was it boring as hell? Yes. Was it a Couture win? Yes. Nowhere NEAR as bad of a judges decision as Machida vs. Rua. Not even in the same universe.

What this proved to me is that Couture is done. All he has left is his clinch game and even while in it, he can't do enough damage to end a fight. He was woefully ineffective in the striking game. Had he been fighting a guy even remotely smart enough to counter Couture's clinch and keep him on the perimeter, he would have been knocked out in the second round of this fight.

Very well put.

The bolded part in particular I wanted to comment on. People who are saying Vera won that fight are basically pinning it all on that one kick. Is that how fights should be judged? The guy who lands the best strike is the winner? To me, if you are going to win a fight based on one kick or punch, it should be caused you knocked the other guy out. Vera did nothing other than that. NOTHING.

Its funny about Couture, too. . .Spike showed the Gonzaga fight today and looked so much stronger in the clinch and so much more explosive in his takedowns. That fight was only two years ago, did Couture did that old that quickly???

Couture doesn't win if they're fighting under PRIDE rules:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixed_martial_arts_rules#Judging_Criteria_2

I wouldn't be so sure, to be honest. I don't think either fighter made much effort to finish the fight in the rounds that Couture took. I think the 2nd round was a big round for Vera, but it wasn't enough to eclipse Couture having dominated the other two positionally. Overall, a disappointing effort by anyone's standards by both fighters in which neither deserved to win.

It would have done too much good for Vera to have won that fight for his career. As is always said, to be a legend you have to beat one. Had Vera won that match, it would have catapulted him into immediate contention and he's not there.

Hopefully, somebody will get to Couture and tell him that fight was an embarrassment and if he wants to come out with the same game plan next time he may as well stay at home and not tarnish his legacy by the vertical lay and pray we just witnessed.

Hopefully, somebody will get to Couture and tell him that fight was an embarrassment and if he wants to come out with the same game plan next time he may as well stay at home and not tarnish his legacy by the vertical lay and pray we just witnessed.

Or they'll remind him that he's bigger than most fighters in the LHW division, so he should use this "strategy" because he won a decision with it. :laugh:

People used to huck garbage at Josh Koscheck for winning fights like that.

People here were mad when Brock Lesnar basically just rolled Heath Herring around for 15 minutes. People here were mad when Kenny Florian pranced around Roger Huerta for 15 minutes. People here were mad when Bisping backpedalled and threw pat-pat jabs at Chris Leben for 15 minutes.

And those fights were freakin Space Mountain excitement compared to tonight's main event.

Or they'll remind him that he's bigger than most fighters in the LHW division, so he should use this "strategy" because he won a decision with it. :laugh:

I would love to see him try to employ that strategy against Spider Silva or either of Rua or Shogun. It would be a blood bath.

I would love to see him try to employ that strategy against Spider Silva or either of Rua or Shogun. It would be a blood bath.

Either of them? :)

Bisping looked fantastic tonight. I was fully expecting Kang to dominate him (and he did on round 1), but Bisping was BRUTAL in round 2. Just no remorse. Good for him. He's a cocky ****, but he put on a good show tonight and showed a lot of heart.

Randy v. Vera:
I agree that Vera wins under Pride rules, but under a 10-point must system, I don't have a problem with the decision. Randy really seems made for 5 rounders. He may have lost some explosiveness, but when they broke after the end of the third, Vera immediately doubled over and Couture casually walked back to his corner.

Hardy v. Swick:
Great performance by Hardy, but neither of these guys are ready for GSP. I really like Hardy. It's a shame that the rest of the division is so far behind GSP. If they weren't desperate for a #1 contender, he could have a few more fights before getting a shot. He'd still probably get beat handily, but the guy's got some room to improve and a couple of more fights would go a long way for him in that regard.

Bisping v. Kang:
Props to Bisping for bouncing back, but man did Kang look bad on the ground. He looked brutal off his back for a BJJ black belt.

what a crap main event. The first round was basically randy leaning on vera the entire time. He might have kneed him twice so I guess he deserves the round. He did get a 5 second takedown.
The second round was at least a little better, Vera lands a couple good body kicks and then gets leaned on for most of the round, I guess you can give that to Vera.

The third randy is leaning on vera again. At least this round he finally decided to actually throw punches while hes leaning on Vera and I think that wins him the round.

I wish they could both get a loss for that.

My thoughts exactly. Vera had no game plan. It's clear he doesn't have the mind of a winner. Couture no longer has the body of one. He executed his gameplan, which was 100% defensive.

Anyone know what the fight of the night was? I really enjoyed Bisping-Kang...

Anyone know what the fight of the night was? I really enjoyed Bisping-Kang...

Bisping v. Kang was fight of the night

Glad this one was a free card. That said, aside from the Couture/Vera stinker, the rest of the event was pretty decent. They even threw in a couple of good undercard fights.

Bisping v. Kang was fight of the night
FYI - last night at the bar there was a group of girls doing a "snuggie" pub crawl. Each of them were wearing snuggies.

Glad this one was a free card. That said, aside from the Couture/Vera stinker, the rest of the event was pretty decent. They even threw in a couple of good undercard fights.



Delgado got ROCKKKKKKKKEEEDDDDD.

FYI - last night at the bar there was a group of girls doing a "snuggie" pub crawl. Each of them were wearing snuggies.

I have been wondering for weeks what's going on in DFA's avatar... but now I know that this is the biggest thing since the Slap Chop!

Delgado got ROCKKKKKKKKEEEDDDDD.

He sure did.

Extra punches that Winner threw, though, were straight up bush league.

I wonder if Vera's wife tried to give him a hug after his fight... if so I bet he frantically shoved her away and then dug for underhooks.

She'll have a chance to get revenge for him next weekend, I guess. Although when they showed Randy arriving at the arena yesterday I noticed he already has a different blonde a decade his junior hanging off his arm, so maybe he's not too concerned about how Kim does anymore. :laugh:

He sure did.

Extra punches that Winner threw, though, were straight up bush league.

Unnecessary for sure, and unfortunate... but I can't blame him too much. It seemed like it all happened pretty fast, and guys in that situation are going to get in there and throw punches as fast as possible. It happens... guys with a lot more experience than Andre Winner will jump in and throw punches because they just don't know that the fight is over. Unlucky for Delgado in this situation that the referee was directly behind Winner and wasn't in position to get between them fast enough to keep him from taking unneeded harm.

When Henderson did it, on the other hand... it seemed like he had about a half hour to think it over, and he did it anyway, and he admitted as much after the show. To me, that's bush.

I'm with the crowd that thought Vera got screwed, ever so slightly, but screwed none the less. Randy controlled the majority of the fight but all he did was pin him against the cage. He was unable to get a takedown, he didn't land any real big shots, but he got the win for control and conrtrol alone. Vera rocked him, rocked may be a stretch, in each round. I had it a round each heading into the 3rd, a round I thought Vera won. The round was pretty uneventful, but Vera landed a few good shots and that takedown should've been enough to take that round, regardless of the lack of damage from the mount. He scored the takedown, plain and simple.

I had a feeling Randy/Vera was gonna be a stinker, you had to figure their styles were going to neutralize each other, which it did. At the end of the day the fight should've been scored a draw or a Vera win, Randy didn't win that fight.

I really didn't think Bisping had any chance of winning that fight but he proved me wrong. I overlooked the heart factor, which Bisping has and Kang doesn't. Kang dominated that first round but as soon as he got touched a few times he basically quit. Kang being Kang, you can see him just assume the fetal position as soon as he got tagged, he wanted out and that's what he got.

Hardy looked good but giving him a titleshot is a bad moved, he simply isn't ready.

He sure did.

Extra punches that Winner threw, though, were straight up bush league.

Yeah, 90% of the time I don't think the ground punches are bad as they're necessary to finish a guy off, but Delgado was out cold. So the extra punches were totally unnecessary. But, it was in the heat of the moment, so I won't hold that against him.

He sure did.

Extra punches that Winner threw, though, were straight up bush league.
totally agree. I am so sick of hearing the excuse that "oh, these guys are in kill mode, and they don't stop until the ref stops it.". these guys are professional fighters and the highest level. they should be able to tell when a guy is out cold and completely defenseless. I see other fighters like Marquardt knock guys into the following week and he is able to pull up when a guy is out. it's lame and usually Rogan defends these guys but said something twice about it those last few punches being unnecessary.

Glad this one was a free card. That said, aside from the Couture/Vera stinker, the rest of the event was pretty decent. They even threw in a couple of good undercard fights.

agreed. the Couture/Vera fight being a stinker is an understatement. I found myself getting angry watching it. all Couture did was stall while pinning Vera against cage. I went into the fight being neutral but as the fight went on, and my frustration grew, I was hoping Couture would get KO'd.


the shocker of the night for me, was how bad Denis Kang looked against Bisping. he looked real good in the 1st round but after that, he just folded up. I am still convinced that Bisping is nothing more then a middle of the pack fighter. it's just a shame that Dana pushes him so much cause he is his bridge to the UK.

I was really impressed with Ross Pearson, he looked awesome.

Unnecessary for sure, and unfortunate... but I can't blame him too much. It seemed like it all happened pretty fast, and guys in that situation are going to get in there and throw punches as fast as possible. It happens... guys with a lot more experience than Andre Winner will jump in and throw punches because they just don't know that the fight is over. Unlucky for Delgado in this situation that the referee was directly behind Winner and wasn't in position to get between them fast enough to keep him from taking unneeded harm.

When Henderson did it, on the other hand... it seemed like he had about a half hour to think it over, and he did it anyway, and he admitted as much after the show. To me, that's bush.

When Henderson did it, Bisping actually deserved it. :sarcasm:

Yeah, 90% of the time I don't think the ground punches are bad as they're necessary to finish a guy off, but Delgado was out cold. So the extra punches were totally unnecessary. But, it was in the heat of the moment, so I won't hold that against him.
His freaking mouthguard was popping out of his mouth. It definitely looked shady as hell.

I really enjoyed the Brown / Wilks fight, those kimura and kimura reversals were great.

I thought what Gustafsson did was a bit cheesy, too. Come out swinging after a touch up after you poke someone in the eye. Ultimately it's Hamman's fault for not taking his time and making sure he was ok, but damn.

His freaking mouthguard was popping out of his mouth. It definitely looked shady as hell.

If I remember correctly, I think that was actually Winner's mouthguard, no?

If I remember correctly, I think that was actually Winner's mouthguard, no?
That was the Gustavson fight. Delgado's mouthguard was in his mouth still, but fully poking out.