Wec 49

Anyone catch this?

I missed some of the middle fights but wow Varner got screwed. I can't stand Jamie Varner but how in the hell did they score that a draw? Varner clearly won the first two rounds (and Shalorus was also deducted a 1 point for his second groin shot). You could give Shalorus the 3rd round for the takedown but other than the leg kicks the only thing he deserves credit for is his good chin and heart....Rosenthal also screwed Varner by not deducting Shalorus again in the 3rd round for another nasty groin kick.

Ugh. I hate standing up for Varner.

Surprised there was no thread on this. Leave it to Cecil Peoples to screw up a fight :laugh:

Strange how he came out and said leg kicks don't win fights in Shogun/Machida 1, and then he scores the fight as a win for Shalorus (before the point deduction).

How these ****ing idiot judges still have jobs is beyond me

That was an excellent night of fights. The Wineland, Horodecki, and Hominick fights were outstanding. WEC consistently puts on the best cards in MMA, as far as I'm concerned.

Anyone catch this?

I missed some of the middle fights but wow Varner got screwed. I can't stand Jamie Varner but how in the hell did they score that a draw? Varner clearly won the first two rounds (and Shalorus was also deducted a 1 point for his second groin shot). You could give Shalorus the 3rd round for the takedown but other than the leg kicks the only thing he deserves credit for is his good chin and heart....Rosenthal also screwed Varner by not deducting Shalorus again in the 3rd round for another nasty groin kick.

Ugh. I hate standing up for Varner.

Disagree on the Rosenthal call.

He shouldn't have taken the first point off. The first nut shot was only a glancing blow. The second and third were hard shots. The point should have been taken off after the third shot and only one point should have been removed.

I had the fight scored like this:

10-9 Varner
9-9 Draw
10-9 Kamal

Varner is lucky he got the one point removed. He would have lost the fight otherwise. He had a very good first round, but Kamal won everything else after. The 2nd round was very close, but I gave the edge to Kamal for the damage he did to Jamie. Jamie landed more shots, but Kamal landed the heavier blows. He also dominated the ring presence and pace of the entire fight. Look at Varner's leg, face, hand and foot and tell me you think he won that fight.

Also, KenFlo was embarrassingly bad on commentary tonight. Biased to the point of ridiculous on a number of fights. Bad night for him, as he's usually sharp and keeps the bias toned down a bit. Not tonight, though.

His laughable assessment of a 30-26 Varner "EASILY" win capped off his night of fail.

Disagree on the Rosenthal call.

He shouldn't have taken the first point off. The first nut shot was only a glancing blow. The second and third were hard shots. The point should have been taken off after the third shot and only one point should have been removed.

I had the fight scored like this:

10-9 Varner
9-9 Draw
10-9 Kamal

Varner is lucky he got the one point removed. He would have lost the fight otherwise. He had a very good first round, but Kamal won everything else after. The 2nd round was very close, but I gave the edge to Kamal for the damage he did to Jamie. Jamie landed more shots, but Kamal landed the heavier blows. He also dominated the ring presence and pace of the entire fight. Look at Varner's leg, face, hand and foot and tell me you think he won that fight.

Well yeah, the first one was a glancing blow, which is why he got a warning. The second one was a hard nut shot, after he'd already been warned once that round, which is why he got a point deducted. The third one was the worst of all, straight down the pipe like he was punting a football, after being warned TWICE and already having a point deducted -- which is why Shalorus was really, really fortunate not to have a second point deducted. Honestly if you've already been warned twice and lost a point and keep throwing high inside leg kicks, you're playing with fire. (Since it's World Cup season, I'd compare it to getting a yellow card midway through a match -- even if you think it wasn't warranted, you know you're on notice at that point so you have to be a lot more careful with your challenges, or risk being sent off)

Also I don't see how either of the first two rounds were anything but Varner's, Shalorus landed good leg kicks, sure, but Varner tagged him repeatedly with good counters and hard shots, and had him doing the chicken dance at least once in either round. Full credit to Shalorus for having a granite chin but those are still hard, hard power punches that have to weigh heavily on the scorecard. Third round was pretty clear for him so I think 29-27 Varner was the correct decision. I dunno what fight the judge who scored all three for Shalorus was watching. I actually had left the room because I thought the outcome was a foregone conclusion, I only found out it ended up a draw afterwards.

other stuff:
- Hominick/Jabouin was just great, a definite FOTY candidate. One of the best finishing sequences I've seen. Would love to see Hominick fight either Garcia or the Korean Zombie next.
- LOL at Yves Lavigne reffing the Grispi/Davis match. He made sure the guy was really out from the guillotine this time before calling the fight :laugh:.
- Horodecki/Downes made me think I'd tuned in to Teen Fighting Championships by accident.
- The body shot by Wineland to finish his fight was sick. That poor guy was already on wobbly legs and he just crumpled.

What a fight between Hominick/Jabouin! I've been a big supporter of the Machine for quite some time, I'm glad he finally got a Co-main slot and came through with a great performance!

The Main event was a close fight but I thought Varner won pretty clearly (with the point deduction), this coming from a Varner hater. I might be mistaken but I thought one judge scored it 30-27 Kamal, which is ridiculous, even worse when you factor in the point deduction.

I hope Hominick gets his wish and ends up fight Garcia next, that should be a war. A war Hominick should win with technique.

EDIT: Looks like i was incorrect, 29-27.

Well yeah, the first one was a glancing blow, which is why he got a warning. The second one was a hard nut shot, after he'd already been warned once that round, which is why he got a point deducted. The third one was the worst of all, straight down the pipe like he was punting a football, after being warned TWICE and already having a point deducted -- which is why Shalorus was really, really fortunate not to have a second point deducted. Honestly if you've already been warned twice and lost a point and keep throwing high inside leg kicks, you're playing with fire. (Since it's World Cup season, I'd compare it to getting a yellow card midway through a match -- even if you think it wasn't warranted, you know you're on notice at that point so you have to be a lot more careful with your challenges, or risk being sent off)

Also I don't see how either of the first two rounds were anything but Varner's, Shalorus landed good leg kicks, sure, but Varner tagged him repeatedly with good counters and hard shots, and had him doing the chicken dance at least once in either round. Full credit to Shalorus for having a granite chin but those are still hard, hard power punches that have to weigh heavily on the scorecard. Third round was pretty clear for him so I think 29-27 Varner was the correct decision. I dunno what fight the judge who scored all three for Shalorus was watching. I actually had left the room because I thought the outcome was a foregone conclusion, I only found out it ended up a draw afterwards.

other stuff:
- Hominick/Jabouin was just great, a definite FOTY candidate. One of the best finishing sequences I've seen. Would love to see Hominick fight either Garcia or the Korean Zombie next.
- LOL at Yves Lavigne reffing the Grispi/Davis match. He made sure the guy was really out from the guillotine this time before calling the fight :laugh:.
- Horodecki/Downes made me think I'd tuned in to Teen Fighting Championships by accident.
- The body shot by Wineland to finish his fight was sick. That poor guy was already on wobbly legs and he just crumpled.

A lot of people on Bloody Elbow had the 2nd and 3rd scored for Kamal (as I did). It's not that hard to score it that way. He was landing far more damaging shots than Varner was. All three rounds were fairly close, with the 2nd being the closest. Round 1 was pretty much Varner and round 3 was pretty much Kamal. The main round of debate will be the 2nd round, but I thought Kamal was landing the better/tougher shots throughout.

Again: Look at how badly Varner was beat up to see who really won that fight.

Broken foot. Broken hand. Busted up face. Kamal looked like he could go another few rounds.

The first nut shot was so weak. That's the main reason I was happy to see only one point deducted. Truly barely touched him. Varner got some breathing time and the fight continued. Second one warranted a warning and the third one a point. That's how I viewed it.

I had the main event scored a draw as well, so I thought it was the right call. Really good fight though.

Again: Look at how badly Varner was beat up to see who really won that fight.

Broken foot. Broken hand. Busted up face. Kamal looked like he could go another few rounds.

That makes no sense. Breaking your hand/foot on your opponent doesn't count as getting beat up....

I think Kamal also broke his hand, I'm interested to see the medical suspensions that come from this event. I think it was in the 2nd round, he kept looking at his one thumb and shaking his hand occasionally.

The first nut shot was so weak. That's the main reason I was happy to see only one point deducted. Truly barely touched him. Varner got some breathing time and the fight continued. Second one warranted a warning and the third one a point. That's how I viewed it.

The first one was a glancing shot without a doubt, but it was a shot to the groin.. He was warned as he should be, when the 2nd one came the point was deducted, which was the proper call. The 3rd one was the worst and he definately should've been docked another point, maybe even DQ'd.

Again, I hate Varner but I can't let it cloud my judgement.

The first one was a glancing shot without a doubt, but it was a shot to the groin.. He was warned as he should be, when the 2nd one came the point was deducted, which was the proper call. The 3rd one was the worst and he definately should've been docked another point, maybe even DQ'd.

Again, I hate Varner but I can't let it cloud my judgement.

I've seen so many fights where a second nut shot does not warrant a point off. I thought Rosenthal was quick to deduct one there, especially after what a minor tap the first one was. Varner's a good actor and was *****ing and moaning in the third round for another point, so I highly doubt he was as hurt as he was portraying.

Again: Look at how badly Varner was beat up to see who really won that fight.

Broken foot. Broken hand. Busted up face. Kamal looked like he could go another few rounds.

This isn't a logical argument. Judges don't look at a broken hand or foot (as if you can credit Shalarous with either) and only look at the facial damage to a small degree when scoring fights. Even if the latter does have some footing, it's a 10 point must system where each round is scored individually, so damage accumulated would only have weight in the final round--which most feel Shalarous won anyways.

I had it 29-27 Varner. His boxing was incredibly crisp, and two wobbly/knockdown punches in a division that doesn't feature many knockouts/knockdowns was impressive. I'm not a fan of Varner, and until I saw the replays on the cup shots, I thought he was faking, but to me it was clear as day that he won the fight. Worst case scenario, I could at least see someone scoring it 28-28, but 29-27 for Shalarous is beyond absurd.

Another point, that Florian aptly made, is that very few guys wear the more protective metal thai cups. Seems like about once per event someone gets a cup shot, and--as most of us can surely attest--such a blow will always have lingering effects, regardless of a 5 minute recover time. Same thing goes for an eye poke, but only for the lingering effects. Now, I know it's more comfortable to wear a standard cup, but unless you get a repeat offender--like Shalarous last night--then the offending fighter will only be given a warning, which is a small consolation for the guy who just had his sensitive spot flogged.

Of course, sometimes extemporaneous retribution is the best solution :biglaugh:
http://i41.tinypic.com/v2sl83.jpg

I saw the fight as a draw, but could have also seen a majority decision going to Varner.

Regarding Lavigne waiting too long before stopping... I still maintain it's better for the officials to air on the side of caution in these situations. That was ugly.

Well yeah, the first one was a glancing blow, which is why he got a warning. The second one was a hard nut shot, after he'd already been warned once that round, which is why he got a point deducted. The third one was the worst of all, straight down the pipe like he was punting a football, after being warned TWICE and already having a point deducted -- which is why Shalorus was really, really fortunate not to have a second point deducted. Honestly if you've already been warned twice and lost a point and keep throwing high inside leg kicks, you're playing with fire. (Since it's World Cup season, I'd compare it to getting a yellow card midway through a match -- even if you think it wasn't warranted, you know you're on notice at that point so you have to be a lot more careful with your challenges, or risk being sent off)

Also I don't see how either of the first two rounds were anything but Varner's, Shalorus landed good leg kicks, sure, but Varner tagged him repeatedly with good counters and hard shots, and had him doing the chicken dance at least once in either round. Full credit to Shalorus for having a granite chin but those are still hard, hard power punches that have to weigh heavily on the scorecard. Third round was pretty clear for him so I think 29-27 Varner was the correct decision. I dunno what fight the judge who scored all three for Shalorus was watching. I actually had left the room because I thought the outcome was a foregone conclusion, I only found out it ended up a draw afterwards.

other stuff:
- Hominick/Jabouin was just great, a definite FOTY candidate. One of the best finishing sequences I've seen. Would love to see Hominick fight either Garcia or the Korean Zombie next.
- LOL at Yves Lavigne reffing the Grispi/Davis match. He made sure the guy was really out from the guillotine this time before calling the fight :laugh:.
- Horodecki/Downes made me think I'd tuned in to Teen Fighting Championships by accident.
- The body shot by Wineland to finish his fight was sick. That poor guy was already on wobbly legs and he just crumpled.
Completely agree on both of those points. I may get slammed for saying this but WEC puts on the most consistently good shows (I know it's not really fair to UFC with the volume though) and there's always something to talk about afterwards.

Also, KenFlo was embarrassingly bad on commentary tonight. Biased to the point of ridiculous on a number of fights. Bad night for him, as he's usually sharp and keeps the bias toned down a bit. Not tonight, though.

His laughable assessment of a 30-26 Varner "EASILY" win capped off his night of fail.

Yeah that surprised me as well.

A lot of people on Bloody Elbow had the 2nd and 3rd scored for Kamal (as I did). It's not that hard to score it that way. He was landing far more damaging shots than Varner was. All three rounds were fairly close, with the 2nd being the closest. Round 1 was pretty much Varner and round 3 was pretty much Kamal. The main round of debate will be the 2nd round, but I thought Kamal was landing the better/tougher shots throughout.

Again: Look at how badly Varner was beat up to see who really won that fight.

Broken foot. Broken hand. Busted up face. Kamal looked like he could go another few rounds.

The first nut shot was so weak. That's the main reason I was happy to see only one point deducted. Truly barely touched him. Varner got some breathing time and the fight continued. Second one warranted a warning and the third one a point. That's how I viewed it.

I gotta agree with the colonel. No way Varner loses that fight. He won the first two rounds even without the point deduction. He lost the third because he couldnt use his right hand anymore. There should have been a second point deducted for the third nut shot. And one judge had it 29-27 for Kamal. How does that happen?

It was embarrassing, but the rest of the card was very good. Best card I have seen in almost a year.

It's not really that hard of a fight to judge. Varner clearly won Round 1. Kamal clearly won the 3rd. Obviously, Kamal got a point deducted.

The only thing open to interpretation was the 2nd round, which I had for Kamal Shalorus but others had for Varner. Could really have gone either way. To be honest it should probably be a 10-10 round, take away 1 pt for the low blow and you have.. 29-28 Varner overall.