Nazem Kadri VS. Magnus-Paajarvi Svensson

1. John Tavares
2. Victor Hedman
3. Matt Duchene
4. Evander Kane
5. Brayden Schenn
6. Oliver-Ekman Larsson
7. Nazem Kadri
8. Scott Glennie
9. Jared Cowen
10. Magnus-Paajavri-Svensson

Who do you think is better right now and/or has better potential?

Would you have drafted MPS instead of Kadri?

long run i think mps will be better.

I would have drafted MPS over Kadri but Kadri has grown on me since then. I miss the presence of a super skilled Swedish forward since Sundin left, but if Kadri can play a Duchene/Toews type franchise center role for us, that trumps the Hossa like scoring winger.

Yeah I remember being so disappointed when we selected Kadri over MPS, partly because we have a pretty good track record of successful Swedes on the Leafs, and also because MPS was so highly regarded before the draft.

I guess time will tell, but here's hoping Kadri.

I'd put money on MSP, but Kadri's good as well.

I was one of the only ones around here who actually wanted to draft Kadri, so my money is on him.

We needed a young, skilled, high potential center and so that's what Burke got, we literally had no center depth and to this day we still don't really have any.

Also I was extremely happy when BB drafted Kadri, TSN kept saying that we were gonna draft Cowen and I literally prayed that Burke would get us a forward instead.

Yeah, I was hoping for the same. Anyone but Cowen. Not that he's a bad player, but even then we already had a set D, and were in desperate need of some forward talent.

MPS for both questions, but I'm happy with Kadri.

Oh, and I'd have drafted MSP. Never bothered me that he'd be staying in the Eliteserien, as it's great for his development to be playing against men in a league.

they both are going to be good but I like the edge that Kadri plays with. So I would go with Kadri.

they both are going to be good but I like the edge that Kadri plays with. So I would go with Kadri.


Kadri is more of a well rounded player, while MPS is more of a player who has the potential brilliant sniper.

Oh and my answer to that, would've have been MPS, i loved tavares and would've loved if schenn came here but since both were out of the question and as well kane gone, It'd been definitely MPS.

MPS is better at the moment, IMO. The difference isn't that huge though. If I could go back and choose one to draft, it would definitely be Magnus (and then look for centre help elsewhere). However, at the moment, I would not trade Kadri for MPS due to organizational need at the centre position.

they both have 75,80pt potential, but we needed a centre!
i would of drafted MPS though.

they both have 75,80pt potential, but we needed a centre!
i would of drafted MPS though.

our LW out-look is like this:

LW
Kulemin
Caputi
Mueller
Brown
----------
C
Bozak
Grabovski
Mitchell
Hanson

I think if Burke were to re-do the draft TODAY, he would chose MPS, as would I

Kadri.. for two reasons.

A) We need centre depth.
B) Kadri has a great personality for a troubled franchise, MPS doesn't talk.

The difference between the two isn't big enough to make me want to have a top 6 winger instead of a centre.

i am still a little stumped at how far MPS went down. I think Kadri who was 7 and MPS was as highs 3 or 5, got switched up a bit. Kadri even fell to over 10 close to the draft and MPS held around 5. I wonder what was decided that bolted Kadri back to 7 and MPS down so much. I think Kadri had good playoffs but still don't know how MPS dropped. Did anybody read why?

At the time of the draft, I *REALLY* wanted MPS, but thought he'd be off the board by the time we picked. When he was on the board but we took Kadri instead, I was not pleased. While I've warmed to Kadri somewhat, I still see him as a bit of a puckhog whose game might not translate quite as well to the NHL level, while MPS IMO has the size and speed to be an excellent winger. I'd still prefer MPS, but not by as much as before, as Kadri's excellent season plus bulking up has raised his stock in my books.

I think everyone wanted MPS on the day.

I'll back our scouting staff and go Kadri

I think everyone wanted MPS on the day.


I think everyone wanted MPS because of the MSP4LYFE hype train. Where did he go anyway? To the Edmonton boards?

I'm not trading Kadri for Paajarvi-Svensson.

Just to say how much I value Kadri. I don't know who will be better long term, to be honest.

Kadri

Kadri.. for two reasons.

A) We need centre depth.
B) Kadri has a great personality for a troubled franchise, MPS doesn't talk.

The difference between the two isn't big enough to make me want to have a top 6 winger instead of a centre.

This is one of my favorite things about Kadri. I like the grit he plays with and he's very competitive. I was worried about our center depth and picking Kadri helps that immensely. Kadri has a lot of things I'd look for when selecting the future face of my offensive core.

Not to mention, how great is it for the youths in the multicultural hub that is Toronto to see a minority play in the spot-light?

I think MPS, but I'm more than happy with Kadri.

I think it's closer than some people realize, but Kadri has the perfect attitude to survive the Toronto media, and plays with that edge we love here.

our LW out-look is like this:

LW
Kulemin
Caputi
Mueller
Brown
----------
C
Bozak
Grabovski
Mitchell
Hanson

I think if Burke were to re-do the draft TODAY, he would chose MPS, as would I
Why?

First rule of drafting is you never draft for immediate need.

I stopped caring about who will be better, I like MPS as a hockey player more though.

our LW out-look is like this:

LW
Kulemin
Caputi
Mueller
Brown
----------
C
Bozak
Grabovski
Mitchell
Hanson

I think if Burke were to re-do the draft TODAY, he would chose MPS, as would I

Center is also a huge need.

Any team that wants to go far, needs strong centers.

I too wanted MPS at the draft. Since I've done a complete 180. Kadri hs improved by leaps and bounds over the last year and put on 15+ pounds (ive heard). Finished only a handfull of points behind Hall and Sequin on a less talented team. Factor in our organizational needs and the race is no longer even close. Kadri is exactly what we need right now not to mention he is a local boy!.

Kadri, I've always thought MPS was always way overrated around these boards. Both are solid prospects but I like Kadri game more and we need a potential #1 centre.

I don't think there is any point of this topic, both GMs and even fans are happy with who they got and I think they will both turn out to be solid NHL'ers.

Not gonna lie,this video makes me sad :(

oehXP_zJYmk

But then I watch this
JEhJp6YlFR8

Fitting they both wear #91.

MPS seems like Stalberg with much better hands, hockey sense and a knack to finish.

Kadri seems like a quick shift playmaker with a good shot combined with his fantastic stickhandling and more physical than MPS.

It would be awesome if we could have both so we don't have to have this debate.

As an Oilers fan (Not trolling) I was pretty shocked that MPS fell to the 10th pick, some mock drafts had him as high as #3 and he somehow fell to the Oil at #10. :amazed:

There was speculation that MPS didn't have the "hands" to succeed as an NHLer, which was why some teams were afraid to draft him. But after this past season, an improved SEL season, a dominant WJC and being named Tournament all-star team while being the leading goal scorer for the Swedish Men's National Team, his stock must have risen! He's already been playing against men for 3 years now, while Kadri has had 1 game against the Sharks this season.

This is only part of my argument, MPS is bigger, stronger and faster than Kadri but Kadri should turn out to be a good center for the leafs. :thumbu:

Kadri is more of a well rounded player, while MPS is more of a player who has the potential brilliant sniper.

Nope he's unlikely to be a sniper, but I'd say he can become a Ales Hemsky type player because he holds on the puck for so long and can dominate games alone with his speed.

Both players are actually pretty equal in terms of talent.

MPS is faster, great skill with the puck, nice shot, he's a finesse type of player, and as someone mentioned good hockey IQ.

Kadri is more physical, not afraid to lay down the body, great in shootouts, good on the PP, he also has a nice shot.

I have a feeling this debate will be the next great hockey debate. (you know, like ovie/sid...tyler/taylor...) :laugh:

I guess a lot more people in North America have access to Swedish TV than one might think.

Love how some people are upset because we didn't draft local kid Seguin, but when we actually draft a talented local kid, we are upset? Yeah, yeah there's a difference Seguins gonna be a "Super Star Franchise player who's talent will rival that of Sid Crosby".

i am more glad that we had drafted nazem kadri because that is a near player and a muslim. praise allah :handclap:

i am more glad that we had drafted nazem kadri because that is a near player and a muslim. praise allah :handclap:

OMG Please don't.

The thing I love about Kadri is that the puck always seems to be around him and he loves it on his stick. The kid is dynamic with it, knows when to shoot, where to shoot it and when to pass it. He can play all 3 forward positions, is improving on the faceoff circle, dedicated to getting bigger, stronger, faster and filling out his defensive game. Oh and he loves to lay guys out with the big hit.. he can literally do it all! How this translates to the NHL game remains to be seen but he definitely has all the necessary tools.

As for MSP, I remember hearing about his dynamic skill when he was 15-16 but I've only seen highlights of his game and his WJC's.. I haven't seen nearly as much of MSP as Kadri for obvious reasons (I live in London) but I was real real happy the day Burke called Nazem's name in Montreal!!

Love how some people are upset because we didn't draft local kid Seguin, but when we actually draft a talented local kid, we are upset? Yeah, yeah there's a difference Seguins gonna be a "Super Star Franchise player who's talent will rival that of Sid Crosby".

Who ever thinks that is dreaming imo.. Seguin has the potential to be a good player but imo, no where close to Sid.

dale hunter thinks kadri can be as impacting as anyone from that draft.i like the fact he skates for the puck....the edge he carries around will benefit him years to come

I've fallen in love with Kadri's game. Such a tallented, flashy guy that plays with heart and grit.

MPS has been pimped out on these boards, way before the draft... even moreso than Kadri...

At the draft, I would rather have MPS, but now I'm warming up to Kadri and definately wouldn't trade him for MPS.

Ok, I'm gonna be honest. I had no idea who Kadri was before the draft, and had heard alot of media hype over MPS. That is the only reason I was dissapointed. I know there's alot of people out there like me who don't want to admit it.

Not gonna lie,this video makes me sad :(

oehXP_zJYmk

makes me depressed, looks better than kadri's video but burke picked and I hope he did a good job. Kadri is pretty damn good too.

Ok, I'm gonna be honest. I had no idea who Kadri was before the draft, and had heard alot of media hype over MPS. That is the only reason I was dissapointed. I know there's alot of people out there like me who don't want to admit it.

I will admit it as well, to be honest I didn't know too much about kadri before the draft. All I knew about him was "he was Tavares linemate"...and "Kadri's points were inflated by having tavares on his line".

It is refreshing to know that once Tavares made the big leagues, Kadri still dominated in the minors without his help.

Also, it is nice to see people being honest in this thread opposed to the kadri fanboyism that we all have deep down lol.

OMG Please don't.

Writes the person with the Hitler avatar?

i am still a little stumped at how far MPS went down. I think Kadri who was 7 and MPS was as highs 3 or 5, got switched up a bit. Kadri even fell to over 10 close to the draft and MPS held around 5. I wonder what was decided that bolted Kadri back to 7 and MPS down so much. I think Kadri had good playoffs but still don't know how MPS dropped. Did anybody read why?

he dropped because his hands were/are suspect. (i.e. no goal scoring touch)

1. John Tavares
2. Victor Hedman
3. Matt Duchene
4. Evander Kane
5. Brayden Schenn
6. Oliver-Ekman Larsson
7. Nazem Kadri
8. Scott Glennie
9. Jared Cowen
10. Magnus-Paajavri-Svensson

Who do you think is better right now and/or has better potential?

Would you have drafted MPS instead of Kadri?

A badly beaten up topic over the last year. Will be interesting to see at the 40 game mark so long as both are in the NHL.

he dropped because his hands were/are suspect. (i.e. no goal scoring touch)

Teams wanted to pick him but they wern't sure whether to say Magnus-Paajavri-Svensson or Magnus-Svensson-Paajavri :laugh:

Kadri.. for two reasons.

A) We need centre depth.
B) Kadri has a great personality for a troubled franchise, MPS doesn't talk.

The difference between the two isn't big enough to make me want to have a top 6 winger instead of a centre.

MPS isn't too fluent in English, although before Canada vs. Sweden World Junior gold medal game in Ottawa, he was trash talking Canada!

An old quote from a young Swedish player about the Canadian players “crapping in their pants” if they fall behind by two goals in front of their large home crowd, took on new life Sunday on the eve of the finale.

Canadian winger Cody Hodgson was asked if he thought the quote, uttered days ago by Swedish forward Magnus Svensson Paajarvi, was bulletin board material.

Read more: http://www.nationalpost.com/sports/story.html?id=1143582#ixzz0xREzGUe6

Who ever thinks that is dreaming imo.. Seguin has the potential to be a good player but imo, no where close to Sid.

Well with the way he is talked about here it sure as hell seems like it.

I like Kadri... It was good that we picked him.. I just hated if we chose Cowan we had alot of D... and so adding him wasn't gonna be worth it..

I guess a lot more people in North America have access to Swedish TV than one might think.
Obviously few have seen many of his SEL games, but I'm sure plenty, like me, have watched him at the 2010 World Cup, 2010 WJC, 2009 WJC, etc., and he looked GREAT in these tournaments.

There is no way that Kadri would have received the HF fan boy support that MPS received because he doesn't fit the stereotypical image of what a hockey player looks like nor his background. Kadri probably still suffers from this but the minds of the fan boys aren't really important anyhow.

Both players look to be pretty solid. I'm happy with MPS, but as an Oiler fan I'm not going to lie and say I wouldn't love a center prospect like Kadri.

As it sits right now, you can't really go wrong with either. One could end up being a stud and one a bust, no one can say at this point in time.

Either way, it will be exciting to see what they both do over the next few years as they develop.

I gotta say, 90% of those shots MPS scored on from the outside in that previous video, wouldn't score in the NHL. If he wants to be successful, he needs to go to the net hard (which he has been doing). Only a select few players can score from the outside like that. We have one already.

I would not trade Kadri for MPS, so I will go with Kadri. Never was a fan of MPS

Both players look to be pretty solid. I'm happy with MPS, but as an Oiler fan I'm not going to lie and say I wouldn't love a center prospect like Kadri.

As it sits right now, you can't really go wrong with either. One could end up being a stud and one a bust, no one can say at this point in time.

Either way, it will be exciting to see what they both do over the next few years as they develop.

This. Except I'm a Leaf fan so I would have said, I'm happy with Kadri, but as a Leaf fan I'm not going to lie and say I wouldn't love a LW prospect like MPS. But I agree, they both look like they're going to be pretty solid. :nod:

I think MPS has the higher offensive ceiling (70+ points), whereas Kadri fits the bigger organizational need.

I see Paajarvi as a future 1st line winger, and Kadri as a 2nd line center with the potential to be a top-line guy.

Neither team should trade for the other now, despite their needs on the current roster.

At the time of the draft I wanted MPS at 7. Was really worried we take Cowen and wanted no part of it. Always had some reservations about MPS' hands...still do. But I think he'll be a front line player on speed alone. I didn't like the Kadri selection but he's definately won me over, and right now I like him better than MPS but it's damn close.

At the time of the draft I wanted MPS at 7. Was really worried we take Cowen and wanted no part of it. Always had some reservations about MPS' hands...still do. But I think he'll be a front line player on speed alone. I didn't like the Kadri selection but he's definately won me over, and right now I like him better than MPS but it's damn close.

All of those suspicions are out the window after the year he just had (SEL, WJC, World Championships).

Although, he'll be more of a pure playmaking winger in the mold of Ales Hemsky.

But then I watch this
JEhJp6YlFR8

I just watched this while listening to Avenged Sevenfold's Save Me and it fits so perfectly. :yo:

Looking short term and who have the best chance to reach his full potential I would go with the one-way winger who have taken some big steps in his development in getting there so MPS it would be then.

But long term and the player who will find it tougher to reach his more dynamic potential but would become a better player if he do I would go with Kadri.

I am perfectly happy with Burkes pick and I do believe he will reach his potential of becoming a 2-way, play making centre who score goals and plays with some grit in all situations.

I just watched this while listening to Avenged Sevenfold's Save Me and it fits so perfectly. :yo:

LOL - this gave me an idea.. I really liked the song With a Woman Like You by Hi-Fly with the Kadri video.. but than again, what highlight video isn't it good with lol!!

EDIT - Locked by Hi-Fly is even better!!

Kadri is really impressive. He creates almost all of his points, rather than just benefitting from a strong team. He's a leader, he's gritty, he's in your face nasty when he needs to be.

He's not huge, but he is not a little guy, as some have implied. I think he embodies everything you want in a number one center. If he puts it together at the NHL level, I think his results will be even greater than his considerable talent because of his fierce competitiveness.

This is the kind of guy you want in a playoff series.

Comparing him to another prospect when between them they have played one NHL game is a toughy, but I like our guy.

what is actually more intersting, is that the teams that did pass on MPS (Toronto, Ottawa, Dallas) are no strangers to scouting/drafting swedes.

But really, a lot is being made about nothing, I mean, its hard to critique someone who hasnt played 1 game yet.

(yes i know kadri played the game against sj)

A badly beaten up topic over the last year. Will be interesting to see at the 40 game mark so long as both are in the NHL.

Definately. IMO, both will be playing in the top 6 for their respective clubs next season.

our LW out-look is like this:

LW
Kulemin
Caputi
Mueller
Brown
----------
C
Bozak
Grabovski
Mitchell
Hanson

I think if Burke were to re-do the draft TODAY, he would chose MPS, as would I

You never draft based on need, that's rule #1.

I would love to revisit this thread in a few years when we might have a clear cut answer.

I think Kadri will adapt to the NHL better than MPS and that is a huge advantage. But only time can tell when comparing players with 1 NHL game between them.

i am more glad that we had drafted nazem kadri because that is a near player and a muslim. praise allah :handclap:

Does it really matter what religion he is or what he believes in? The man can handle a puck, and has the abilities to be a star in this league. Why does it matter if he's black, white, brown, yellow, orange, purple, green?

Does it really matter what religion he is or what he believes in? The man can handle a puck, and has the abilities to be a star in this league. Why does it matter if he's black, white, brown, yellow, orange, purple, green?

While I agree with the sentiment, I don't want no Purpies on my team. I hear they steal money when you aren't looking and they're lazy.

While I agree with the sentiment, I don't want no Purpies on my team. I hear they steal money when you aren't looking and they're lazy.

"To hell with purple people! - Unless they're suffocating - then help'em. ..."

You never draft based on need, that's rule #1.

Also, even according to that list, how are we better at centre than LW?

"To hell with purple people! - Unless they're suffocating - then help'em. ..."

Best stand-up ever.:laugh:

Pääjärvi is better and will stay better IMO, especially being out of the Toronto spotlight.

I would pay more then a penny for Thommie Bergmans thoughts on MPS. He has been a fantastic scout for us in Europe.

At the time of the draft, I hadn't even considered Kadri at 7, and was a little surprised at the pick. But we all saw the video with Burke and Murray moments before the selection, so we knew their guy was coveted by another GM. I certainly wasn't upset though. I had taken a few freinds not as familiar with the OHL to see Tavares and the Knights play in Guelph. They didn't know who Kadri was but were way more impressed with him then Tavares.

At the draft I wasn't interested in drafting MPS, and was a little relieved that our GM wasn't the only one to pass on him. Who knows who will end up the better player, but I would be more then willing to bet a big chunk of change on Kadri. I think this guy is extremely talented, and once he gets comfortable with himself in the NHL, he will be great.

Pääjärvi is better and will stay better IMO, especially being out of the Toronto spotlight.

Edmonton doesn't have a track record of draft picks exceeding or even meeting expectations. It's probably easier to remain anonymous in Toronto than it is there.

MSP for sure

But then I watch this
JEhJp6YlFR8

awesome video

Nope he's unlikely to be a sniper, but I'd say he can become a Ales Hemsky type player because he holds on the puck for so long and can dominate games alone with his speed.

Well lets see, i see on him on the other light i believe.

At the draft there was questions about MPS finishing skills. He had a weak WJC and a ho hum time in the SEL. However after being drafted he proved why he should have gone top 5 and had a really great WJC along with great numbers in the SEL.

I thought MPS should have went higher on draft day, and yeah I think in the long run offensively MPS will be better then Kadri.

However, Kadri is much more of a Brian Burke player. Skilled, likes to mix it up, goes to the dirty areas. Is a leader, lots of confidence, is known to raise his game when they really matter (playoff totals are just sick).

Yeah if Kadri develops in the vien of a Toews, and MPS as Forsberg. I'd be very happy for both players, and I'd be happy that we got what we really needed a BB#1 centre.

Teams wanted to pick him but they wern't sure whether to say Magnus-Paajavri-Svensson or Magnus-Svensson-Paajavri :laugh:

...and i thought it was the MPS vs MSP vs PMS issue

Kadri, But rather than Kadri i think I would've drafted Ryan Ellis. (love the way he plays.)

I'm really liking that Burke is acquiring players who perform well in the post-season: Kadri in the OHL, Kessel with the Bruins, Versteeg with Chicago. That bodes well for me.

Though from MPS's international play, he's no slouch when the games matter. I'd still rather have Kadri due to the intangibles he brings.

I will admit it as well, to be honest I didn't know too much about kadri before the draft. All I knew about him was "he was Tavares linemate"...and "Kadri's points were inflated by having tavares on his line".


Actually Kadri was better off without Tavares, since Kadri was the go-to guy in London, when Tavares arrived Kadri had a complimentry role and his Numbers declined

Kadri had 45 points in 29 games BEFORE Tavares (87 point pace)

33 points in 27 games WITH TAVARES (68 point pace)

Finished season with 78 points in 56 games in the Regular season.

Go Figure!

...and i thought it was the MPS vs MSP vs PMS issue

hahah the who spread the MPS mania had his name is MSP4LYFE. Miss the dude where he is

hahah the who spread the MPS mania had his name is MSP4LYFE. Miss the dude where he is

Banned, probably.

I would love to revisit this thread in a few years when we might have a clear cut answer.

I think Kadri will adapt to the NHL better than MPS and that is a huge advantage. But only time can tell when comparing players with 1 NHL game between them.

Why is that?

MPS all ready has a bit more of an advantage, he already plays in a league with grown men opposed to Kadri.

Why is that?

MPS all ready has the greater advantage, he already plays in a league with grown men opposed to Kadri.

So did Wallin!

Why is that?

MPS all ready has the greater advantage, he already plays in a league with grown men opposed to Kadri.

SEL hockey isn't exactly known for its rugged play.

hahah the who spread the MPS mania had his name is MSP4LYFE. Miss the dude where he is

Banned, probably.

Yup.. but guaranteed he still lurks!! He and I are in the same keeper league.. I'll tell him you guys miss him LOL

i am more glad that we had drafted nazem kadri because that is a near player and a muslim. praise allah :handclap:

OMG Please don't.

Writes the person with the Hitler avatar?

I thought that was also strange. I know it's the family guy stupid Hitler... but it is still Hitler lol.

At the draft I along with most of Leafs nation were hoping that Burke could pull a rabbit out of his ass and somehow get us Tavares. When he didn't I was hoping for Luke's brother.. and then he was taken. So then I had thoughts of Cowen and Schenn on the back end for years to come but those were just thoughts and I wanted Kadri! And then that Burke and Murray shot was priceless and we got ourselves Kadri! One of my buddies was pretty upset though that we didn't draft mps.

I think Kadri will be better and I would have taken him for sure.

Kulemin - Bozak - Kessel
MPS - Grabovski - Versteeg

or

Kulemin - Bozak - Kessel
Versteeg - Kadri - Armstrong

I think kadri is kind of like Marc Savard with a tough edge.

MPS is sort of like Mats.

I'd take MPS. That's not to say I'm not excited to see what Nazem can bring to the table.

hahah the who spread the MPS mania had his name is MSP4LYFE. Miss the dude where he is

he posts at that other place... which I'm pretty sure I can't mention on here :D

Best stand-up ever.:laugh:

It was a sad day when he died:(

If your going to compare the two then ask yourself: Would you trade Kadri for MPS if you were Toronto? Would you trade MPS for Kadri if you were Edmonton? IMO I wouldn't trade Kadri for him. I see Kadri as a Kesler/Richards type of player. I doubt he turns into a player who is that good at everything but you get the idea. These guys are too different players. One is that classic all-speed European with the scoring touch while the other is the classic Canadian style. In your face and leading and doing a little bit of everything. You need both to win as far as I'm concerned.

I'd take Kadri at this point, though at the draft not getting Schenn kinda put a damper on things so I wasn't thrilled at the time. From what I have seen, he has some speed, has some sick moves, some grit, and seems to have on-ice awareness. I REALLY hope nobody catches him with his head down coming through center though but I can see it happening.

I'd want Pääjärvi so he could feed passes to Kessel all night long. Speedy playmaking wing with a sniper on the other wing.

I'd want Pääjärvi so he could feed passes to Kessel all night long. Speedy playmaking centre with a sniper on the other wing.

You just described exactly why having Kadri on this team is essential.

Edmonton doesn't have a track record of draft picks exceeding or even meeting expectations. It's probably easier to remain anonymous in Toronto than it is there.

In recent history, the only two 1st round picks post-lockout who have cracked Edmonton's roster are Gagner and Cogliano. Neither of those guys were thought of as saviors, and Gagner was viewed similarly to how many view Kadri, a second-line center who can play great in a complementary role. Were people somewhat fooled by his spectacular rookie year? Yes, but what people failed to realize was that 30 of those 49 points came in the last 28 games of the year, where Edmonton had literally no pressure, and the team was playing over their heads because other teams took the rookie core with very little seriousness. He has only developed overall as a player since then, and his defensive game+faceoffs have improved by a ten-fold. He's pretty much the same offensive player he was back then, with better play in all other facets of the game. Poised to be the full-time No.1 center starting next year, you'll probably see Sam break through as a 50-60 point scorer, with him maxing out as a 60-point player when Edmonton is competing again, playing a similar role to Joe Pavelski.

As for Cogliano, the only reason why he's seen a constant dip in production is because he's had to play on the 3rd-4th lines with grinders almost exclusively, over the past two years. If Jordan Eberle wasn't coming up, Gagner and Brule weren't already on the roster, and Linus Omark hadn't been signed....there would be no talk of moving Cogliano, rather the team would find a spot for him and try to get him to regain his offensive touch.

makes me depressed, looks better than kadri's video but burke picked and I hope he did a good job. Kadri is pretty damn good too.

All these tribute video's are more a display of ****** goaltending. There are some good moves, but these shots that go in from 30 feet out don't impress me. If they can translate those moves to the NHL then they will be special players..I just don't get too excited about tribute videos anymore.

All these tribute video's are more a display of ****** goaltending. There are some good moves, but these shots that go in from 30 feet out don't impress me. If they can translate those moves to the NHL then they will be special players..I just don't get too excited about tribute videos anymore.

I don't think either player was taken in the top-10 based on youtube videos, so I really think it's just to showcase to fans who don't get regular viewings of the players.

i am excited to see kadri play this year, but at the draft I wanted us to draft mps. I think mps is going to be a super star, as for kadri, he has the potential to be one aswell, lets hope for the best from kadri....... I would love to see the leafs trade for mps I would even consider trading schenn for mps...

schenn--- mps straight up.... what do you guys think?

I hate to trade schenn because he is going to be a beast...like scott stevens... but how can you pass up on pajaarvi? I can see him turning into something special

i am excited to see kadri play this year, but at the draft I wanted us to draft mps. I think mps is going to be a super star, as for kadri, he has the potential to be one aswell, lets hope for the best from kadri....... I would love to see the leafs trade for mps I would even consider trading schenn for mps...

schenn--- mps straight up.... what do you guys think?

I hate to trade schenn because he is going to be a beast...like scott stevens... but how can you pass up on pajaarvi? I can see him turning into something special

How about Hudler for Schenn? :sarcasm:

I know scouts dont look at youtube highlights but that MPS video seems to show more about the poor quality of the goalies and defensemen he plays against than the skill MPS himself has.

How about Hudler for Schenn? :sarcasm:

lol thats a good one:laugh: here is a question for you say edmonton wanted schenn badly, and they were offering either eberle or mps, who would you take if you were burke? I think i would take mps.... but it would be a tough one to call, eberle has proven to be a big game player.....but mps has the edge for me

lol thats a good one:laugh: here is a question for you say edmonton wanted schenn badly, and they were offering either eberle or mps, who would you take if you were burke? I think i would take mps.... but it would be a tough one to call, eberle has proven to be a big game player.....but mps has the edge for me

Edmonton would love Schenn. He fits a role we have no one to fill right now. Only think is it that our 3 young prospects are getting hyped so much that I couldn't see us trading one at this point in time.

Edmonton would love Schenn. He fits a role we have no one to fill right now. Only think is it that our 3 young prospects are getting hyped so much that I couldn't see us trading one at this point in time.

very true... but the only way they do it is if they feel ganger, brule, omark or cogliano are still going to reach their potential this year, if so then they could afford to trade mps or eberle, for much needed schenn type d-man

very true... but the only way they do it is if they feel ganger, brule, omark or cogliano are still going to reach their potential this year, if so then they could afford to trade mps or eberle, for much needed schenn type d-man

I don't think anyone in the organization is expecting Cogliano to get over 40-50 points next season, and that would be considered a great season for him, same goes for Brule. They don't make any of the kids expendable. Gagner is most likely solidified in our top 6 and hes young enough he'll get a few more years to show us what he can do.

Omark I can't even see making the team next season since we're hoping to have Hall/Eberle/MPS as our rookies next season, so he is expendable, not our big 3.

Schenn is exactly what the Oilers need. But not at the cost of any of our big 3 offensive prospects, even if the value if fair.

Any of Cogs/Omark/Brule + draft pick or something of similar value, sure. But I can't see it being made worthwhile for the Leafs.

I don't think anyone in the organization is expecting Cogliano to get over 40-50 points next season, and that would be considered a great season for him, same goes for Brule. They don't make any of the kids expendable. Gagner is most likely solidified in our top 6 and hes young enough he'll get a few more years to show us what he can do.

Omark I can't even see making the team next season since we're hoping to have Hall/Eberle/MPS as our rookies next season, so he is expendable, not our big 3.

Schenn is exactly what the Oilers need. But not at the cost of any of our big 3 offensive prospects, even if the value if fair.

Any of Cogs/Omark/Brule + draft pick or something of similar value, sure. But I can't see it being made worthwhile for the Leafs.

ya I can agree with what your saying for sure, but the only way I would want to give up schenn is for one of the big three, but if i was edmonton I wouldnt give up those guys either,,, so I guess its fair to say edmonton and the leafs making a deal around any of those guys is out of the question... I still cant believe schenn add 15-20 lbs of muscle this summer, going to be interesting seeing what he is going to look like out there this year.. for the first time in years I am going to be looking at the t.v guide to see when edmonton games are on t.v here in t.o...they are going to be exciting to watch this year as a leaf fan good luck edmonton!

I know scouts dont look at youtube highlights but that MPS video seems to show more about the poor quality of the goalies and defensemen he plays against than the skill MPS himself has.

Most of his goals either seem to be from the slot area or from driving the net....that works quite perfectly for the NHL game, don't you think?

Most of his goals either seem to be from the slot area or from driving the net....that works quite perfectly for the NHL game, don't you think?

Are you sure you're watching the video were watching?

Are you sure you're watching the video were watching?

Yes, I'm pretty sure.

I'll watch it again just to make sure.

I'd trade Schenn for Pääjärvi. It'd be a nice top 6 in a few years.

Pääjärvi - Kadri/Bozak - Kessel
Kulemin - Kadri/Bozak - Steeg

Yes, I'm pretty sure.

I'll watch it again just to make sure.

Don't get me wrong, there are some SICK goals in that video, but there are also some goals that wouldn't go in if it were Miller or Brodeur between the pipes.

I'd trade Schenn for Pääjärvi. It'd be a nice top 6 in a few years.

Pääjärvi - Kadri/Bozak - Kessel
Kulemin - Kadri/Bozak - Steeg

yeper:)

Yeah, from what I saw, only two of those goals he scored in that video would not have worked in the NHL.

But the SEL is still, arguably, the second best pro league in the world (on par with the AHL), so it's still a step up fron Kadri lighting up CHL goalies.

I'd trade Schenn for Pääjärvi. It'd be a nice top 6 in a few years.

Pääjärvi - Kadri/Bozak - Kessel
Kulemin - Kadri/Bozak - Steeg

That would be a pretty fine top six in a couple years, but I really don't like the idea of getting rid of Schenn. I know there's no other way we'd get MPS, but I think the Leafs would be making a mistake if they got rid of Schenn.

Yeah, from what I saw, only two of those goals he scored in that video would not have worked in the NHL.

But the SEL is still, arguably, the second best pro league in the world (on par with the AHL), so it's still a step up fron Kadri lighting up CHL goalies.

That's true. Although SEL is probably the third best (you forgot the KHL). The thing I like about Kadri is that he's fearless on the ice, which is something that will serve him well in the NHL. I know what you're saying though, hopefully MPS and Kadri both become great players.

Yeah, from what I saw, only two of those goals he scored in that video would not have worked in the NHL.

But the SEL is still, arguably, the second best pro league in the world (on par with the AHL), so it's still a step up fron Kadri lighting up CHL goalies.

Sel would be behind NHL, KHL and it could also be a level below the AHL or the same.

Sel would be behind NHL, KHL and it could also be a level below the AHL or the same.

Its at the level of the AHL pretty much, from what I've been told.

Also, the point is that he's played in a professional league, so that may get him adjusted a lot quicker to the tight checking and excellent positional play of NHL defenses.

Its at the level of the AHL pretty much, from what I've been told.

Also, the point is that he's played in a professional league, so that may get him adjusted a lot quicker to the tight checking and excellent positional play of NHL defenses.

And do that on the smaller ice surface.

Its at the level of the AHL pretty much, from what I've been told.

Also, the point is that he's played in a professional league, so that may get him adjusted a lot quicker to the tight checking and excellent positional play of NHL defenses.

SEL is played in Europe, Euro leagues use bigger ice surfaces and are not tight-checking games, they're more open and best suited for skill, there's little to no physicality used in that league.

MPS has the skill, but it's still gonna take some time for him to get used to playing a NA style of game.

SEL is played in Europe, Euro leagues use bigger ice surfaces and are not tight-checking games, they're more open and best suited for skill, there's little to no physicality used in that league.

MPS has the skill, but it's still gonna take some time for him to get used to playing a NA style of game.

But he's still playing against grown men, who are smart, positional defenders who take away angles and use stickwork to break up plays.

Sure, he might need some adjustment, which is why it wouldn't surprise me to see him start the year off in Oklahoma.

I think Pääjärvi will make a pretty smooth transition to the NHL. His skating will make enough mixmatches and I'm sure he'll get used to the NA style of game pretty quickly.

But he's still playing against grown men, who are smart, positional defenders who take away angles and use stickwork to break up plays.

Sure, he might need some adjustment, which is why it wouldn't surprise me to see him start the year off in Oklahoma.

Sure he's playing against men, but I bet none of them are in the likes of a Chris Pronger or a Duncan Keith.

Sure he's playing against men, but I bet none of them are in the likes of a Chris Pronger or a Duncan Keith.

Hey! He was ripping it up against the likes of Victor Hedman and Adam Larsson.;)

out of curiousity and not trying to start a war here but did it bother anyone that his favorite team growing up was the Habs?

Sure he's playing against men, but I bet none of them are in the likes of a Chris Pronger or a Duncan Keith.

You mean like Kadri was in the OHL last year? Full grown men in a professional league >> 16 year old pubescent boys in the OHL as defenders.

You mean like Kadri was in the OHL last year? Full grown men in a professional league >> 16 year old pubescent boys in the OHL as defenders.

You act as though it's better to be playing in the SEL. There's no secret behind MPS, lots of players have gone through both and both can be extremely beneficial.

It's a toss up, some GM's would prefer a kid who can dominate against 16-20 year old teens and some (Detroit, Washington, etc.) would prefer to see a kid develop against less talented men who play a completely different style of hockey compared to the NHL.

We've seen it with Kulemin, trust me when I say the transition doesn't always go as planned.

Kulemin pre-NHL:
KMq55eNQquU

Kulemin at the World Juniors dominating like MPS:
AV5i2tLi0g0

You and me both know the outcome.. An underachieving highly skilled power forward.

You act as though it's better to be playing in the SEL. There's no secret behind MPS, lots of players have gone through both and both can be extremely beneficial.

It's a toss up, some GM's would prefer a kid who can dominate against 16-20 year old teens and some (Detroit, Washington, etc.) would prefer to see a kid develop against less talented men who play a completely different style of hockey compared to the NHL.

We've seen it with Kulemin, trust me when I say the transition doesn't always go as planned.

Kulemin pre-NHL:
KMq55eNQquU

Kulemin at the World Juniors dominating like MPS:
AV5i2tLi0g0

You and me both know the outcome.. An underachieving highly skilled power forward.

Wasn't Kulemin an over-aged 20 year old that got drafted in the 2nd round?

Not that I put too much stock in draft order, but you seriously can't compare someone like Kulemin to a guy who was a consensus top-5 pick until May-June of 2009.

out of curiousity and not trying to start a war here but did it bother anyone that his favorite team growing up was the Habs?

Not really. I mean, Cammelleri grew up a Leafs fan, does that bother you?

MSP doesn't have the skill Kadri has, he's all skating and size, which may be enough to get him 40-50 points at the NHL level but he doesn't have the skill or the hockey sense needed to put up 80+ point seasons like Kopitar or Backstrom.

out of curiousity and not trying to start a war here but did it bother anyone that his favorite team growing up was the Habs?

As much as it bothers you that Cammalleri grew up a Leafs fan.

MSP doesn't have the skill Kadri has, he's all skating and size, which may be enough to get him 40-50 points at the NHL level but he doesn't have the skill or the hockey sense needed to put up 80+ point seasons like Kopitar or Backstrom.

Huh? Pääjärvi is just as skilled as Kadri... ask any Swede here. I like Kadri, I just think Magnus is better and will be better. I see their skillsets as different but similar in terms of overall skill.

MSP doesn't have the skill Kadri has, he's all skating and size, which may be enough to get him 40-50 points at the NHL level but he doesn't have the skill or the hockey sense needed to put up 80+ point seasons like Kopitar or Backstrom.

I see him only getting 40-50 points if he can't translate his game to North American style but I think he'll adjust but he is a long-term project that still may take another 1-2 years before reaching the NHL level.

Overall skill, as someone said above, they are about the same in terms of talent but one is more NHL ready and knows how to play NA style while the other may take a little bit longer.

It may just be me, but I feel Swedish players get WAY too much credit for playing in the SEL. How can you possibly discredit a player for playing in the CHL when it's generally the only route available?

Seems like people think any Swedish player picked in the top 10 of a draft is suddenly the next big thing.

MSP doesn't have the skill Kadri has, he's all skating and size, which may be enough to get him 40-50 points at the NHL level but he doesn't have the skill or the hockey sense needed to put up 80+ point seasons like Kopitar or Backstrom.

MPS easily has the skill Kadri has, and no one says he'll be the next Kopitar or Backstrom. Many see him as a 1st line winger capable of 70+ points, similar to Ales Hemsky.

It may just be me, but I feel Swedish players get WAY too much credit for playing in the SEL. How can you possibly discredit a player for playing in the CHL when it's generally the only route available?

Seems like people think any Swedish player picked in the top 10 of a draft is suddenly the next big thing.

Well, it certainly doesn't hurt that history and reputation are clearly on their side.

Well, it certainly doesn't hurt that history and reputation are clearly on their side.

Not really. There isn't a better chance to be a superstar player being Swedish. Swedish players bust all the same as the other countries. There is just usually more hype. I've heard people say with certainty that Markstrom will be a top 5 goalie in the NHL. OEL will be the best player of 09, Hedman is the Swedish Pronger. Those Lidstrom comparisons tied to Stralman, they came from Sweden aswell. They will probably all be good to great players, but lets be serious here.

Maybe I'm just ranting, but I feel alot of people think Swedes are can't miss players.

MPS has more pure talent, but I do feel Kadri can be the better overall player.

You mean like Kadri was in the OHL last year? Full grown men in a professional league >> 16 year old pubescent boys in the OHL as defenders.

If this were the case then why wouldn't EVERY prospect play in Europe? There is absolutely no advantage to be playing in the CHL as oppose to the European leagues.

Not really. There isn't a better chance to be a superstar player being Swedish. Swedish players bust all the same as the other countries. There is just usually more hype. I've heard people say with certainty that Markstrom will be a top 5 goalie in the NHL. OEL will be the best player of 09, Hedman is the Swedish Pronger. Those Lidstrom comparisons tied to Stralman, they came from Sweden aswell. They will probably all be good to great players, but lets be serious here.

Maybe I'm just ranting, but I feel alot of people think Swedes are can't miss players.

Like I just said, Swedes might be overhyped, but they have a ton of history to back them up.

MPS has more pure talent, but I do feel Kadri can be the better overall player.

Want to elaborate?

Not that I don't understand what you mean, I just want to know why.

It may just be me, but I feel Swedish players get WAY too much credit for playing in the SEL. How can you possibly discredit a player for playing in the CHL when it's generally the only route available?

Seems like people think any Swedish player picked in the top 10 of a draft is suddenly the next big thing.

Well, it certainly doesn't hurt that history and reputation are clearly on their side.

Funny thing about that. Over the past decade (so from 2000 to 2010 for my example), would anyone care to guess how many players were drafted out of the SEL in the top 10 over the respective entry drafts?

The answer? As far as I could tell, the answer is four.

2000 - Lars Jonsson (drafted 7th overall by Boston)
2006 - Nicklas Backstrom (drafted 4th overall by Washington)
2009 - Victor Hedman (2nd overall, Tampa Bay) and Magnus Paajarvi-Svensson (10th overall, Edmonton)

Anyway, mostly done out of a mixture of fun and boredom but it's not really much of a sample size to go on. Now I know, someone's going to say that it's not fair that I set the cut-off point at the last decade. OK, add another 5 years to the time frame so it goes back to 1995. Add exactly two players to the list: Daniel and Henrik Sedin, taken 2nd and 3rd overall in 1999. That's it (unless I somehow missed someone drafted out of the SEL in the top 10 in that time frame).

If this were the case then why wouldn't EVERY prospect play in Europe? There is absolutely no advantage to be playing in the CHL as oppose to the European leagues.

Age restrictions? Transfer agreements? Just not good enough?

MSP doesn't have the skill Kadri has

http://i36.tinypic.com/rlgflw.jpg

Not really. There isn't a better chance to be a superstar player being Swedish. Swedish players bust all the same as the other countries. There is just usually more hype. I've heard people say with certainty that Markstrom will be a top 5 goalie in the NHL. OEL will be the best player of 09, Hedman is the Swedish Pronger. Those Lidstrom comparisons tied to Stralman, they came from Sweden aswell. They will probably all be good to great players, but lets be serious here.

Maybe I'm just ranting, but I feel alot of people think Swedes are can't miss players.

Some of the Swedish prospects will be busts, but I dont think MPS is one of them, he had a too impressive year last year. Not that Kadri cant still be better than MPS.

Funny thing about that. Over the past decade (so from 2000 to 2010 for my example), would anyone care to guess how many players were drafted out of the SEL in the top 10 over the respective entry drafts?

The answer? As far as I could tell, the answer is four.

2000 - Lars Jonsson (drafted 7th overall by Boston)
2006 - Nicklas Backstrom (drafted 4th overall by Washington)
2009 - Victor Hedman (2nd overall, Tampa Bay) and Magnus Paajarvi-Svensson (10th overall, Edmonton)

Anyway, mostly done out of a mixture of fun and boredom but it's not really much of a sample size to go on. Now I know, someone's going to say that it's not fair that I set the cut-off point at the last decade. OK, add another 5 years to the time frame so it goes back to 1995. Add exactly two players to the list: Daniel and Henrik Sedin, taken 2nd and 3rd overall in 1999. That's it (unless I somehow missed someone drafted out of the SEL in the top 10 in that time frame).

As I interpret this is that NHL scouts doesnt give Swedish players extra attention just because they are Swedish. They really have to be something special to get a high draft pick. IMO Backström is already shown that he got almost underrated at no4. I expect Bäckis to tear it up in the eastern conference next year (hopefully the caps doesnt fail again in the playoffs...). He's our new Foppa (maybe a bit less agressive version).

The SEL vs CHL thing is stupid, yes the SEL does develop some good players, but they certainly don't have a great history, the CHL has a great history. The majority of players drafted every year are from the CHL, the majority of top 10 picks are from the CHL, the majority of stars came from the CHL. The CHL is known as the best development league in the world.

Note: this isn't a slight against MPS cause I think that he can become a good NHL'er. He's definitely got the skills.

That would be a pretty fine top six in a couple years, but I really don't like the idea of getting rid of Schenn. I know there's no other way we'd get MPS, but I think the Leafs would be making a mistake if they got rid of Schenn.

Not to mention Edmonton doesn't need Schenn, with Smid, and even Peckham in the system.

This is another HF fanboy draw.. MPS projects as a speedy, scoring winger and Kadri as a mean, playmaking center... not the best comparison. It invites fan hype to fill in the obvious inaccuracy of the comparison itself. I think these comparisons should be considered 'troliing', and infractions due.

... and to the guy who said Cogliano has been limited by playing the bottom-lines, maybe it was because he's never really earned top-minutes?? Gagner himself started on the fourth line to begin this latest season, and ended up, expectedly to me, playing top-line. He's just a better, and more importantly, more motivated player. If Cogliano can get seriously stronger, and play more of a simple game then he may be able to play a Matt Lombardi type game, 50-60 points.

To Kadri and MPS, both are second-tier prospects in this league. Kadri just has too much hands to not gradually develop into a sick playmaking center in this league. MPS I'm more skeptical about. He's all the signs of other, speedy, mostly Scandinavian scoring wingers coming into the league, like Sjostrom and Rita. Even if he develops his scoring touch, I don't see him being much more than a Marco Sturm type guy; a speedy, 25-30 goal, 50-60 point man with two-way upside due to speed. Kadri has more high-end potential in my opinion, but not by much. I could see him develop into a Ribeiro type.. not a natural goal-scorer, but whose talent allows him space on the ice to playmake.. most likely a 25+ goal, 60-70 point man. He'll have to work on defense and faceoffs, especially. Upside?

Kadri - 25 goal, 40 assist no. 1, 65 point agitating center
MPS - 25 goal, 20 assist, speedy, two-way, 45 point winger.

Not to mention Edmonton doesn't need Schenn, with Smid, and even Peckham in the system.

This is another HF fanboy draw.. MPS projects as a speedy, scoring winger and Kadri as a mean, playmaking center... not the best comparison. It invites fan hype to fill in the obvious inaccuracy of the comparison itself. I think these comparisons should be considered 'troliing', and infractions due.

... and to the guy who said Cogliano has been limited by playing the bottom-lines, maybe it was because he's never really earned top-minutes?? Gagner himself started on the fourth line to begin this latest season, and ended up, expectedly to me, playing top-line. He's just a better, and more importantly, more motivated player. If Cogliano can get seriously stronger, and play more of a simple game then he may be able to play a Matt Lombardi type game, 50-60 points.

To Kadri and MPS, both are second-tier prospects in this league. Kadri just has too much hands to not gradually develop into a sick playmaking center in this league. MPS I'm more skeptical about. He's all the signs of other, speedy, mostly Scandinavian scoring wingers coming into the league, like Sjostrom and Rita. Even if he develops his scoring touch, I don't see him being much more than a Marco Sturm type guy; a speedy, 25-30 goal, 50-60 point man with two-way upside due to speed. Kadri has more high-end potential in my opinion, but not by much. I could see him develop into a Ribeiro type.. not a natural goal-scorer, but whose talent allows him space on the ice to playmake.. most likely a 25+ goal, 60-70 point man. He'll have to work on defense and faceoffs, especially. Upside?

Kadri - 25 goal, 40 assist no. 1, 65 point agitating center
MPS - 25 goal, 20 assist, speedy, two-way, 45 point winger.

I have yet to read a more ridiculous post on here.

They're both second-tier prospects, except one is a 60 point player and the other won't top 45? Are you joking me?

I still don't understand why everyone here tries to degrade MPS just to prove that Kadri is better, it's simply the most idiotic method of arguing I've come across. Hate on Paajarvi all you want, but he's the better prospect than Kadri and projects to have a higher upside (Kadri's probably a 60 point player, whereas Paajarvi should be hitting 70). His list of accomplishments since his draft year are outstanding, such as being top-5 in SEL history for points scored as an 18 year old (more than Kopitar and Backstrom), and leading Sweden's national team in scoring at the World Championships...en route to being named to the all-star team for forwards, along with Datsyuk and Malkin. When was the last time a 19 year old prospect had as much success at the World Championships? In 2007 (Jonathan Toews).

I have no idea why there is so much bias against a single prospect by the HF Leafs' board.

I have yet to read a more ridiculous post on here.

They're both second-tier prospects, except one is a 60 point player and the other won't top 45? Are you joking me?

I still don't understand why everyone here tries to degrade MPS just to prove that Kadri is better, it's simply the most idiotic method of arguing I've come across. Hate on Paajarvi all you want, but he's the better prospect than Kadri and projects to have a higher upside (Kadri's probably a 60 point player, whereas Paajarvi should be hitting 70). His list of accomplishments since his draft year are outstanding, such as being top-5 in SEL history for points scored as an 18 year old (more than Kopitar and Backstrom), and leading Sweden's national team in scoring at the World Championships...en route to being named to the all-star team for forwards, along with Datsyuk and Malkin. When was the last time a 19 year old prospect had as much success at the World Championships? In 2007 (Jonathan Toews).

I have no idea why there is so much bias against a single prospect by the HF Leafs' board.

These guys are not second tier prospects, they're blue chip prospects.

I have yet to read a more ridiculous post on here.

They're both second-tier prospects, except one is a 60 point player and the other won't top 45? Are you joking me?

I still don't understand why everyone here tries to degrade MPS just to prove that Kadri is better, it's simply the most idiotic method of arguing I've come across. Hate on Paajarvi all you want, but he's the better prospect than Kadri and projects to have a higher upside (Kadri's probably a 60 point player, whereas Paajarvi should be hitting 70). His list of accomplishments since his draft year are outstanding, such as being top-5 in SEL history for points scored as an 18 year old (more than Kopitar and Backstrom), and leading Sweden's national team in scoring at the World Championships...en route to being named to the all-star team for forwards, along with Datsyuk and Malkin. When was the last time a 19 year old prospect had as much success at the World Championships? In 2007 (Jonathan Toews).

I have no idea why there is so much bias against a single prospect by the HF Leafs' board.

Kadri was drafted #7 and Svensson was drafted #10 so in reality the bias in justification or degrading is happening more from the MPS crowd than the other way around as they go on and on how much better the latter is and how Kadri can't be better no matter how anyone looks at it.

We'll see soon enough how they do in the pros.

Kadri was drafted #7 and Svensson was drafted #10 so in reality the bias in justification or degrading is happening more from the MPS crowd than the other way around as they go on and on how much better the latter is and how Kadri can't be better no matter how anyone looks at it.

We'll see soon enough how they do in the pros.

Kadri can sure as hell turn out better in the Pros, that's not what I'm saying.

MPS is the better prospect than Kadri, but both are going to be in the NHL next year, so the argument will solve itself.

Being a fan of both teams, I would love nothing more for both MPS and Kadri to turn out amazing, but I have a question for you.

If Kadri is terrible next year, and Paajarvi has a great year, are you going to be kicking yourself that the Leafs passed him up? Not that rookie seasons tell the full story (farthest thing from the truth), and I hate gauging players' futures based on such grounds, but how would you feel about it? What if the same thing happens the year afterward?

Kadri can sure as hell turn out better in the Pros, that's not what I'm saying.

MPS is the better prospect than Kadri, but both are going to be in the NHL next year, so the argument will solve itself.

Being a fan of both teams, I would love nothing more for both MPS and Kadri to turn out amazing, but I have a question for you.

If Kadri is terrible next year, and Paajarvi has a great year, are you going to be kicking yourself that the Leafs passed him up? Not that rookie seasons tell the full story (farthest thing from the truth), and I hate gauging players' futures based on such grounds, but how would you feel about it? What if the same thing happens the year afterward?
You obviously didn't read what I wrote very closely.

If MPS is terrible next year, and Kadri has a great year, are you going to be kicking yourself that the Leafs didn't pass him up? Not that rookie seasons tell the full story (farthest thing from the truth), and I hate gauging players' futures based on such grounds, but how would you feel about it? What if the same thing happens the year afterward?

For me it's hard to compare these guys, seeing how Kadri plays a more two way game and has more of a physical element to his game. But MPS has blinding speed and great finishing ability. They're both great players, but i'm the kind of guy who will almost always take a center over a winger.

Long run, MPS will probably be better, but Kadri will be a great player too.

The SEL is an ADULT league, not a jr league. So obviously they won't be known for developing prospects... they're men, and the occasional talented teen will join the bottom six of an SEL team, whereas the CHL is entirely a developmental league. There are jr. leagues in Sweden, but they're not the SEL, where Pääjärvi has played for the last three years.

For me it's hard to compare these guys, seeing how Kadri plays a more two way game and has more of a physical element to his game. But MPS has blinding speed and great finishing ability. They're both great players, but i'm the kind of guy who will almost always take a center over a winger.

Long run, MPS will probably be better, but Kadri will be a great player too.

He's actually a playmaker, primarily. I don't think you'll see more than 20-25 goals out of him in the NHL.

He's actually a playmaker, primarily. I don't think you'll see more than 20-25 goals out of him in the NHL.

You can have finishing ability and still be a playmaker. :facepalm:

i am excited to see kadri play this year, but at the draft I wanted us to draft mps. I think mps is going to be a super star, as for kadri, he has the potential to be one aswell, lets hope for the best from kadri....... I would love to see the leafs trade for mps I would even consider trading schenn for mps...

schenn--- mps straight up.... what do you guys think?

I hate to trade schenn because he is going to be a beast...like scott stevens... but how can you pass up on pajaarvi? I can see him turning into something special

easy....thank God guys like you are not real scouts....at the draft I wanted the Leafs to draft Kadri....and stand by that today....I would never trade Schenn For MPS....BY the way....I think i know my **** more than anyone here...I was once asked to be a scout for the Halifax Moosehead....because I KNOW MY ****!!!!

just my opinion!

easy....thank God guys like you are not real scouts....at the draft I wanted the Leafs to draft Kadri....and stand by that today....I would never trade Schenn For MPS....BY the way....I think i know my **** more than anyone here...I was once asked to be a scout for the Halifax Moosehead....because I KNOW MY ****!!!!

just my opinion!

The Moose Heads will hire anyone to scout for them....That's why they suck....

I go to school with one of their recent draft picks, i should know..

This board was a train wreck after we drafted Kadri and left MPS still available. Ive liked him from the get go, and am wishing and hoping he lives up to his potential. Get a big power forward winger to play on the left, put Kessel on the right, and we could have a dynamite top line in a couple years.

As for who will be better, I havent a clue. I'll let them play a season or two and then make a judgement.

EDIT - One thing Kadri most definately has more off them MPS is attitude. He fits in perfectly with the attitude of this team.

The Moose Heads will hire anyone to scout for them....That's why they suck....

I go to school with one of their recent draft picks, i should know..

YOU know squat..the only reason I turned it down was because I had young children and did not want to be on the road 24 -7.... I was offered a car...... expence card, .....salary which is a lot more than I am making now....they wanted to build a winning team....Mistakes in life that some of us make........no...they wanted to hire someone who actually knew thier scouting because I actually talked about what the kids strenths and weaknesses were before I knew he was an owner of the the MooseHead

Not every player you go to school with will suck!!!

YOU know squat..the only reason I turned it down was because I had young children and did not want to be on the road 24 -7.... I was offered a car... expence card, salary which is a lot more than I am making now....they wanted to build a winning team....Mistakes in life that some of us make........no...they wanted to hire someone who actually knew thier scouting because I actually talked about what the kids strenths and weaknesses were before I knew he was an owner of the the MooseHead

Not every player you go to school with will suck!!!

You've accomplished so much, yet you can't help but insult other posters and pretend to be some expert hockey scout over an internet message board?

Also, care to back up why you think Kadri is such a better player? The D'Amigo vs. Leblanc argument, now this one.....both in which you've made some conjectures without any evidence provided at all.

The answer? As far as I could tell, the answer is four.

2000 - Lars Jonsson (drafted 7th overall by Boston)
2006 - Nicklas Backstrom (drafted 4th overall by Washington)
2009 - Victor Hedman (2nd overall, Tampa Bay) and Magnus Paajarvi-Svensson (10th overall, Edmonton)


Lars Jonsson didnt play in the SEL he played there after he was drafted he put up good numbers in juniors but couldnt when he played against men. This is the danger when drafting from juniors you never know how they will do against bigger faster and better players.

You've accomplished so much, yet you can't help but insult other posters and pretend to be some expert hockey scout over an internet message board?

Also, care to back up why you think Kadri is such a better player? The D'Amigo vs. Leblanc argument, now this one.....both in which you've made some conjectures without any evidence provided at all.

If i insult someone it's because of what i have seen with my OWN eyes...My ex wife used to call me crazy because i would watch 10 year olds on the french station....and she even admitted that I should definatley be a scout be cause I was obssesed....Now I don't have the time to be obssesd....my job holds me back

I saw Kadri and Tavares play on the same team about 10-12 times after he was traded .............the only reason i watched was because he was..traded....Kadri blew me away....Tavares did not!

You've accomplished so much, yet you can't help but insult other posters and pretend to be some expert hockey scout over an internet message board?

Also, care to back up why you think Kadri is such a better player? The D'Amigo vs. Leblanc argument, now this one.....both in which you've made some conjectures without any evidence provided at all.

the D'amigo vs Leblanc arguement is a very very simple one...do You actually think that Burke is going to Sign a player for the Leafs or the Marlies unless he thinks the Player is ready???...Would Burke even ask a player to sign with the Leafs after only 1 year of college hockey??????...Please don't be that stupid...because i'm sure that BB is not that stupid...so about Leblanc...he has shown some real good things at the Development camp...I like him he is Canadian player...but we are talking apples and oranges here

If i insult someone it's because of what i have seen with my OWN eyes...My ex wife used to call me crazy because i would watch 10 year olds on the french station....and she even admitted that I should definatley be a scout be cause I was obssesed....Now I don't have the time to be obssesd....my job holds me back

I saw Kadri and Tavares play on the same team about 10-12 times after he was traded .............the only reason i watched was because he was..traded....Kadri blew me away....Tavares did not!

What exactly is your point? Kadri blew you away, Tavares didn't...cool, except you completely disregard the fact that Tavares suffered some from the symptoms of dislocating his shoulder after Hall flattened him. I swear the guy didn't look okay even in the playoff series' against the Spits.

On a side note, what exactly is it that you do for a living?

the D'amigo vs Leblanc arguement is a very very simple one...do You actually think that Burke is going to Sign a player for the Leafs or the Marlies unless he thinks the Player is ready???...Would Burke even ask a player to sign with the Leafs after only 1 year of college hockey??????...Please don't be that stupid...because i'm sure that BB is not that stupid...so about Leblanc...he has shown some real good things at the Development camp...I like him he is Canadian player...but we are talking apples and oranges here

So because the Leafs hastily signed him after one year in college (although Gauthier did the same with Leblanc), you put a ton of faith into Burke's managerial skills? I'm not saying you don't have a point, and that his play definitely warranted him getting signed, but Leblanc's size and hockey sense give him an edge over D'Amigo as far as I'm concerned. If Leblanc progresses as he has so far, all signs point to Montreal getting a quality 2nd line center ala Travis Zajac. If D'Amigo progresses as he has so far, all signs point to Toronto getting a late round steal who could be the next Brian Gionta. Both are awesome players, but Zajac plays a more crucial position, and has shown more upside than Gionta did at the same age.

What exactly is your point? Kadri blew you away, Tavares didn't...cool, except you completely disregard the fact that Tavares suffered some from the symptoms of dislocating his shoulder after Hall flattened him. I swear the guy didn't look okay even in the playoff series' against the Spits.

On a side note, what exactly is it that you do for a living?

well I used to be a hockey dad...fulltime job!
I have argued this with my best friends ....Kovy over Spezza...etc etc
Do you really think a guy that can't skate is going to be a star in this League??

My kid can skate better than Tavares any day of the weak...I have spent over $50,000 on power skating lessons....but my kid is 5' 5".....and never will grow more than that...

altho after he quit hockey he is an absolute beast of a 190bls....and he had to lose weight!

well I used to be a hockey dad...fulltime job!
I have argued this with my best friends ....Kovy over Spezza...etc etc
Do you really think a guy that can't skate is going to be a star in this League??

My kid can skate better than Tavares any day of the weak...I have spent over $50,000 on power skating lessons....but my kid is 5' 5".....and never will grow more than that...

Tavares's skating, although week, won't deter him from being a great player like many believe. If Tavares could skate, he'd be a generational talent in the same class as Crosby and Ovechkin. I still think he'll be a 80-90 point player in his prime, and a 40 goal scorer.

LOL, I can't believe I actually spelt weak as week.

The sad part is, I'm completely sober typing all this.

Lars Jonsson didnt play in the SEL he played there after he was drafted he put up good numbers in juniors but couldnt when he played against men. This is the danger when drafting from juniors you never know how they will do against bigger faster and better players.

Ah, I see the split now on NHL.com. Well, I suppose that reduces the number down to 3/5 (10 years/15 years). I did think that 4% seemed a bit low but I assumed that probably had something to do with the number of scouts as compared to today.

yeah...and my kid can beat the hell out of Derek Boogard any day as well...

I gotta say, 90% of those shots MPS scored on from the outside in that previous video, wouldn't score in the NHL. If he wants to be successful, he needs to go to the net hard (which he has been doing). Only a select few players can score from the outside like that. We have one already.

Actually if you knew more about MPS, not that I'm expecting you to or anything since your a leafs fan but MPS scores most of his goals by driving the puck to the net. He uses his speed and size to his advantage and that's what will help him become a really good player.

I would love to revisit this thread in a few years when we might have a clear cut answer.

I think Kadri will adapt to the NHL better than MPS and that is a huge advantage. But only time can tell when comparing players with 1 NHL game between them.

I actually think MPS will adapt to the NHL better then Kadri. Kadri is small and gritty, while MPS is big and fast. He can use his size and speed to an advantage. But your right, only time will tell.

I would pay more then a penny for Thommie Bergmans thoughts on MPS. He has been a fantastic scout for us in Europe.

At the time of the draft, I hadn't even considered Kadri at 7, and was a little surprised at the pick. But we all saw the video with Burke and Murray moments before the selection, so we knew their guy was coveted by another GM. I certainly wasn't upset though. I had taken a few freinds not as familiar with the OHL to see Tavares and the Knights play in Guelph. They didn't know who Kadri was but were way more impressed with him then Tavares.

At the draft I wasn't interested in drafting MPS, and was a little relieved that our GM wasn't the only one to pass on him. Who knows who will end up the better player, but I would be more then willing to bet a big chunk of change on Kadri. I think this guy is extremely talented, and once he gets comfortable with himself in the NHL, he will be great.

I would actually take that bet just because of how much MPS has proven so much over Kadri. It's hard to ignore the fact that MPS has dominated against men in the SEL and in the World Champions. He was actually phenomenal in the world champions and was named to the All star team along with Datsyuk and someone else, that's a pretty big honor but let me ask you this, if Kadri were to play in the World Champions, would he have done that? Likely not.


SEL is played in Europe, Euro leagues use bigger ice surfaces and are not tight-checking games, they're more open and best suited for skill, there's little to no physicality used in that league.

MPS has the skill, but it's still gonna take some time for him to get used to playing a NA style of game.

Actually MPS's game is more suited for the NA style. If you watch him play, you will realize that he goes into the dirty corners, he loves to use his size and speed and drives hard to the net, he also can make some sick passes. At this point, the only thing Kadri has over MPS is that he is a better dangler and has more grit, there passing is pretty even.


MSP doesn't have the skill Kadri has, he's all skating and size, which may be enough to get him 40-50 points at the NHL level but he doesn't have the skill or the hockey sense needed to put up 80+ point seasons like Kopitar or Backstrom.

I don't get why you would even think that, obviously you don't know much about MPS. Like someone already stated, if MPS can't translate his game then I expect him to be a 40-50 point player but if he does and I think he will, I think he can put up Kopitar type numbers.

This board was a train wreck after we drafted Kadri and left MPS still available. Ive liked him from the get go, and am wishing and hoping he lives up to his potential. Get a big power forward winger to play on the left, put Kessel on the right, and we could have a dynamite top line in a couple years.

As for who will be better, I havent a clue. I'll let them play a season or two and then make a judgement.

EDIT - One thing Kadri most definately has more off them MPS is attitude. He fits in perfectly with the attitude of this team.

Haha yeah I actually remember a few Toronto fans coming over to our boards and congratulating us on getting MPS and saying that he is such a steal while they are stuck with Kadri.

Overall, MPS has a lot of tools to be a successful player. He is actually good defensively but gets no recognition for it. The only thing Oilers fans are worried about now is his play along the boards. Other then that, he has all the tools to be a great player. It's hard to not want a big, fast, young skilled player who is a great playmaker but has a good shot as well. He is already over 200 lbs and is like 6'2-6'3. He will only get bigger. Kadri is a good player as well but IMO, MPS will be the better player. I guess only time will tell though.

MPS is the better prospect than Kadri, but both are going to be in the NHL next year, so the argument will solve itself.

Why?

Why?

His accomplishments, as well as the fact that he has the advantage in size, strength, and speed.

Foppa believe in success in the NHL for Pääjärvi
Swedish legend has found the next star.
Peter Forsberg think Magnus Pääjärvi - Svensson will succeed in the NHL .
- He has many tools in his box , "said Forsberg

In preparation for the upcoming NHL season, Forsberg is a player par excellence.
A player whose background reminiscent of his own with an early debut in senior hockey , some JVM and playoff games in Team Sweden - Magnus Svensson - Pääjärvi .
- He is fearless , going hard on goal and is not afraid to take a hit . Since he is a good skater . It's a good reason , "said Forsberg .
37 -year-old hopes to Pääjärvi - Svensson immediately captured a place in the NHL .

Foppa believes he's the next one! :hockey: :dd:

Source: http://hockey.expressen.se/nhl/1.2110139/foppa-tror-pa-succe-i-nhl-for-paajarvi

And Stralman is the next Lidstrom.

And Stralman is the next Lidstrom.

Which NHL legend compared Stralman to the greatest Swdish defensman?

So the next Forsberg was taken 10th overall? Why?

So the next Forsberg was taken 10th overall? Why?
Ugh, please don't use draft position as an argument against players.

So the next Forsberg was taken 10th overall? Why?

The top-5 was pretty much set in stone. Everyone also expected Phoenix to take a defenseman, and Cowen was just coming off a major injury whereas OEL's stock had risen considerably.

Toronto stupidly took Nazem Kadri for reasons I have never known.

Dallas drafted by need, and with a plethora of LW's on the roster (Neal, Eriksson, Morrow, Benn) for both now and the future, they wanted a safe bet on a weak right side. Unfortunately, it wasn't revealed until afterward that Paajarvi can in fact play either wing position.

Ottawa was torn between either Cowen or Paajarvi, and they chose Cowen because Murray wanted to add to an excellent future blue line (Wiercioch, Cowen, Karlsson), and he also believed that he would be able to get some offense back once he traded Heatley (Edmonton and Ottawa were in deep discussions at the time).

So really, Toronto is the only team there that screwed up.

I have yet to read a more ridiculous post on here.

They're both second-tier prospects, except one is a 60 point player and the other won't top 45? Are you joking me?

I still don't understand why everyone here tries to degrade MPS just to prove that Kadri is better, it's simply the most idiotic method of arguing I've come across. Hate on Paajarvi all you want, but he's the better prospect than Kadri and projects to have a higher upside (Kadri's probably a 60 point player, whereas Paajarvi should be hitting 70). His list of accomplishments since his draft year are outstanding, such as being top-5 in SEL history for points scored as an 18 year old (more than Kopitar and Backstrom), and leading Sweden's national team in scoring at the World Championships...en route to being named to the all-star team for forwards, along with Datsyuk and Malkin. When was the last time a 19 year old prospect had as much success at the World Championships? In 2007 (Jonathan Toews).

I have no idea why there is so much bias against a single prospect by the HF Leafs' board.

They're second-tier prospects.. top-tier I consider Hall, Seguin, Tavares, Hedman, etc.. 45 to 60 points is complementary production, which is exactly what these guys project as.. they may in fact develop into guys that can lead their respective teams literally by themselves, but they don't project to.

No degradation here.. it's you who takes my evaluation as degrading. I just don't see anything remarkably special about any of these guys. Rarely do prospects, however early taken in the draft, project franchise potential. Kadri and MPS are the guys you take only because the first few picks aren't available.

I think ridiculous is more speculating on production while providing no analysis on why they should achieve such, instead providing very comparable accolades to Kadri's.. which include a 2+ PPG pace in the playoffs.

Kadri has the hands, vision and tenacity to be a 20-goal scorer, and maintain himself at high enough of a level to play with other talented players, in a top-six role, allowing him the teammates to put up something like 40 assists.

MPS has the explosive speed to be a 20-goal scorer himself, but doesn't display the vision or offensive instincts to do anything more than match that numbers in assists.

High-end upside is probably 30 goals, 70 points for Kadri, and 30 goals, 60 points for MPS. I think Kadri is the better prospect at this point simply because he's got the vision and hands to be a more rounded player, not to mention he's a center, allowing him more ultimate responsibility.

Your questioning of my intentions is simply a blatant disregard of the evaluation. That in itself is a 'tactic'. I don't understand why posters must find intentions behind others' posts in order to completely disregard them and therefore further stagnate their already rotting opinion.

Why will MPS reach 70 points? Why will Kadri reach 70 points? Why won't MPS reach 70 points? Why won't Kadri reach 70 points? These are questions you've got to ask yourself, and being insecure of others' intentions doesn't answer these questions. There are no tactics here but the ones your insecurity create. I could say your eveluation is degrading as well, as Kadri's upside is less.. you see how weak this 'tactic' is??

They're second-tier prospects.. top-tier I consider Hall, Seguin, Tavares, Hedman, etc.. 45 to 60 points is complementary production, which is exactly what these guys project as.. they may in fact develop into guys that can lead their respective teams literally by themselves, but they don't project to.

No degradation here.. it's you who takes my evaluation as degrading. I just don't see anything remarkably special about any of these guys. Rarely do prospects, however early taken in the draft, project franchise potential. Kadri and MPS are the guys you take only because the first few picks aren't available.

I think ridiculous is more speculating on production while providing no analysis on why they should achieve such, instead providing very comparable accolades to Kadri's.. which include a 2+ PPG pace in the playoffs.

Kadri has the hands, vision and tenacity to be a 20-goal scorer, and maintain himself at high enough of a level to play with other talented players, in a top-six role, allowing him the teammates to put up something like 40 assists.

MPS has the explosive speed to be a 20-goal scorer himself, but doesn't display the vision or offensive instincts to do anything more than match that numbers in assists.

High-end upside is probably 30 goals, 70 points for Kadri, and 30 goals, 60 points for MPS. I think Kadri is the better prospect at this point simply because he's got the vision and hands to be a more rounded player, not to mention he's a center, allowing him more ultimate responsibility.

Your questioning of my intentions is simply a blatant disregard of the evaluation. That in itself is a 'tactic'. I don't understand why posters must find intentions behind others' posts in order to completely disregard them and therefore further stagnate their already rotting opinion.

Why will MPS reach 70 points? Why will Kadri reach 70 points? Why won't MPS reach 70 points? Why won't Kadri reach 70 points? These are questions you've got to ask yourself, and being insecure of others' intentions doesn't answer these questions. There are no tactics here but the ones your insecurity create. I could say your eveluation is degrading as well, as Kadri's upside is less.. you see how weak this 'tactic' is??

Before you try to go all Psych 101 on me, consider this.

Paajarvi was considered the next Swedish sensation since he was 14 years old, very similar to Tavares. You say you rarely get franchise players in the draft? When did I say Paajarvi or Kadri are franchise players. Paajarvi has incredible offensive instincts, just like Kadri does. The fact that Paajarvi is a much more explosive skater and has better physical qualities are what gives him an edge at this stage, IMO. The fact that you think Kadri playing center actually helps boost his offensive production is one of the most laughable things I've read. If anything, wingers can dominate much easily with lessened defensive responsibility and without the burden of faceoffs/matchups.

I see Paajarvi as Martin Havlat, and Kadri as Mike Ribiero.

So the next Forsberg was taken 10th overall? Why?

Forsberg was also taken 6th overall, around where MPS was projected to be taken initially, so the analysis isn't completely ridiculous.

The top-5 was pretty much set in stone. Everyone also expected Phoenix to take a defenseman, and Cowen was just coming off a major injury whereas OEL's stock had risen considerably.

Toronto stupidly took Nazem Kadri for reasons I have never known.

Dallas drafted by need, and with a plethora of LW's on the roster (Neal, Eriksson, Morrow, Benn) for both now and the future, they wanted a safe bet on a weak right side. Unfortunately, it wasn't revealed until afterward that Paajarvi can in fact play either wing position.

Ottawa was torn between either Cowen or Paajarvi, and they chose Cowen because Murray wanted to add to an excellent future blue line (Wiercioch, Cowen, Karlsson), and he also believed that he would be able to get some offense back once he traded Heatley (Edmonton and Ottawa were in deep discussions at the time).

So really, Toronto is the only team there that screwed up.

For reasons you have never known?? So, after one year you haven't thought of anything? Impressive. You may have noticed that we had no young, projected top-six centers at the time. If we're going to talk about team need, then we did have a sophomore Kulemin and the signing of Stalberg in April... a speedy, scoring left-winger was not a glaring team need.

It was revealed that MPS could play the off-wing??! You don't think that Dallas' PRO-NHL scouts wouldn't have evaluated MPS' potential ability to play the off-wing??

Also, Murray intended to draft Kadri. Burke and him discussed it on the draft floor immediately prior to Toronto's selection.. Burke told him he was the guy they were interested in. Murray attempted to offer a 'flip' of picks.. but Burke was adamant.

Forsberg was also taken 6th overall, around where MPS was projected to be taken initially, so the analysis isn't completely ridiculous.



For reasons you have never known?? So, after one year you haven't thought of anything? Impressive. You may have noticed that we had no young, projected top-six centers at the time. If we're going to talk about team need, then we did have a sophomore Kulemin and the signing of Stalberg in April... a speedy, scoring left-winger was not a glaring team need.

It was revealed that MPS could play the off-wing??! You don't think that Dallas' PRO-NHL scouts wouldn't have evaluated MPS' potential ability to play the off-wing??

Also, Murray intended to draft Kadri. Burke and him discussed it on the draft floor immediately prior to Toronto's selection.. Burke told him he was the guy they were interested in. Murray attempted to offer a 'flip' of picks.. but Burke was adamant.

IIRC, MPS only said he plays both wings equally after he was signed by Edmonton two months ago.

Also, no, the Kadri selection is something I'm pissed about and will continue until he really blows me away.

The Leafs, in 09, needed help at all positions. Neither Kulemin or Stalberg had anywhere near the potential MPS did.

Before you try to go all Psych 101 on me, consider this.

Paajarvi was considered the next Swedish sensation since he was 14 years old, very similar to Tavares. You say you rarely get franchise players in the draft? When did I say Paajarvi or Kadri are franchise players. Paajarvi has incredible offensive instincts, just like Kadri does. The fact that Paajarvi is a much more explosive skater and has better physical qualities are what gives him an edge at this stage, IMO. The fact that you think Kadri playing center actually helps boost his offensive production is one of the most laughable things I've read. If anything, wingers can dominate much easily with lessened defensive responsibility and without the burden of faceoffs/matchups.

I see Paajarvi as Martin Havlat, and Kadri as Mike Ribiero.

... good, this is what I want to hear.. analysis and comparisons, especially - are interesting. His size and skating will certainly help him. I still question his offensive instincts though... his advantage and size could mean nothing as well, considering Kadri's tenacity.

The key word; responsibility, you misinterpret. I'm saying that Kadri has the potential to be more of an impactful player with the added responsibility of center. The more offensive role of the peripheral position limits the overall impact a player achieves for his team.. just look at what Gaborik, Kovalchuk, Nash, etc.. have done as their team's best players..

IIRC, MPS only said he plays both wings equally after he was signed by Edmonton two months ago.

Also, no, the Kadri selection is something I'm pissed about and will continue until he really blows me away.

The Leafs, in 09, needed help at all positions. Neither Kulemin or Stalberg had anywhere near the potential MPS did.

It doesn't matter what he says. A scout's job isn't to analyze a player's personality, although that certainly comes into question. It's to measure his on-ice game, and his potential to play the off-wing certainly would have been evaluated. Dallas just must have considered Glennie a more suitable prospect. You don't just not select a player because he hasn't said that he doesn't know if he can play another position as well. Many players are drafted as different positions.

I didn't like the Kadri selection initially either, although I was thinking more about Schenn than Paajarvi. Kadri has certainly grown on me though. Here's a guy that can step into the team right now, whereas Schenn is still eligible for one more year of Junior, and his more offensively inclined skillset suits the acquisition of Kessel better.

... good, this is what I want to hear.. analysis and comparisons, especially - are interesting. His size and skating will certainly help him. I still question his offensive instincts though... his advantage and size could mean nothing as well, considering Kadri's tenacity.

The key word; responsibility, you misinterpret. I'm saying that Kadri has the potential to be more of an impactful player with the added responsibility of center. The more offensive role of the peripheral position limits the overall impact a player achieves for his team.. just look at what Gaborik, Kovalchuk, Nash, etc.. have done as their team's best players..

Why exactly do you question his offensive instincts? He's shone at the World Juniors offensively, as well as the World Championships in May, where (as I reiterate), he scored 9 points to lead the Swedish team and was named as a top-3 forward to the all-star team along with Malkin and Datsyuk. He's top-5 in SEL history for point production as an 18 year old. He's got incredible passing and vision to complement his skillset, and his goal-scoring prowess has improved considerably since over the last three years.

Gaborik, Kovalchuk, and Nash have all proven to be superstar wingers for their team.....what exactly are you hoping to argue?

It doesn't matter what he says. A scout's job isn't to analyze a player's personality, although that certainly comes into question. It's to measure his on-ice game, and his potential to play the off-wing certainly would have been evaluated. Dallas just must have considered Glennie a more suitable prospect. You don't just not select a player because he hasn't said that he doesn't know if he can play another position as well. Many players are drafted as different positions.

Yes, my point was that most Stars' scouts had evidently seen MPS as a prototypical LWer with his outside speed attacking the defense, and his natural tendencies as a playmaker, that they felt that adding another left-winger was overly redundant. Scott Glennie wasn't taken for any other reason, as the Stars were stacked at C and LW.

Why exactly do you question his offensive instincts? He's shone at the World Juniors offensively, as well as the World Championships in May, where (as I reiterate), he scored 9 points to lead the Swedish team and was named as a top-3 forward to the all-star team along with Malkin and Datsyuk. He's top-5 in SEL history for point production as an 18 year old. He's got incredible passing and vision to complement his skillset, and his goal-scoring prowess has improved considerably since over the last three years.

Gaborik, Kovalchuk, and Nash have all proven to be superstar wingers for their team.....what exactly are you hoping to argue?

I just think that he has struggled, however mildly at lower-levels, to score - and that that will be exacerbated in the NHL. The fact that he is 'improving' this part of his game, rather than establishing himself as a straight-up scorer, is worrisome.

... and that's exactly my point. They've proven to be superstar wingers.. but how has their team as a whole benefited??

Yes, my point was that most Stars' scouts had evidently seen MPS as a prototypical LWer with his outside speed attacking the defense, and his natural tendencies as a playmaker, that they felt that adding another left-winger was overly redundant. Scott Glennie wasn't taken for any other reason, as the Stars were stacked at C and LW.

Patrick Kane, for example, is a left-handed shot and primarily a playmaking right-wing, despite this. They also employ Eriksson effectively as a right-wing. I don't think that that was such a big concern that they wouldn't have taken their player, when playing him on the off-wing would have always been a legitimate option, not to mention that MPS wasn't NHL-ready immediately, allowing the makeup of their left-wing plenty of time to change. Seguin was drafted by one of the deepest center pools in the league and Edmonton drafted Hall with MPS and Penner already..

Actually if you knew more about MPS, not that I'm expecting you to or anything since your a leafs fan but MPS scores most of his goals by driving the puck to the net. He uses his speed and size to his advantage and that's what will help him become a really good player.


I never questioned how MPS scored most of his goals. I was addressing a select number of goals in the video which, if he was in the NHL, would not be goals, but would be easy saves.

Before you try to go all Psych 101 on me, consider this.

Paajarvi was considered the next Swedish sensation since he was 14 years old, very similar to Tavares. You say you rarely get franchise players in the draft? When did I say Paajarvi or Kadri are franchise players. Paajarvi has incredible offensive instincts, just like Kadri does. The fact that Paajarvi is a much more explosive skater and has better physical qualities are what gives him an edge at this stage, IMO. The fact that you think Kadri playing center actually helps boost his offensive production is one of the most laughable things I've read. If anything, wingers can dominate much easily with lessened defensive responsibility and without the burden of faceoffs/matchups.

I see Paajarvi as Martin Havlat, and Kadri as Mike Ribiero.
So was Angelo Esposito.

The top-5 was pretty much set in stone. Everyone also expected Phoenix to take a defenseman, and Cowen was just coming off a major injury whereas OEL's stock had risen considerably.

Toronto stupidly took Nazem Kadri for reasons I have never known.

Dallas drafted by need, and with a plethora of LW's on the roster (Neal, Eriksson, Morrow, Benn) for both now and the future, they wanted a safe bet on a weak right side. Unfortunately, it wasn't revealed until afterward that Paajarvi can in fact play either wing position.

Ottawa was torn between either Cowen or Paajarvi, and they chose Cowen because Murray wanted to add to an excellent future blue line (Wiercioch, Cowen, Karlsson), and he also believed that he would be able to get some offense back once he traded Heatley (Edmonton and Ottawa were in deep discussions at the time).

So really, Toronto is the only team there that screwed up.

You don't know the reasons and thus they screwed up?

God forbid NHL GMs don't tell you everything, lest you go around sprouting garbage to slag them.

Also, Murray intended to draft Kadri. Burke and him discussed it on the draft floor immediately prior to Toronto's selection.. Burke told him he was the guy they were interested in. Murray attempted to offer a 'flip' of picks.. but Burke was adamant.

Good point, Burke could have had MPS and another draft pick but wouldn't even discuss moving down.

I just think that he has struggled, however mildly at lower-levels, to score - and that that will be exacerbated in the NHL. The fact that he is 'improving' this part of his game, rather than establishing himself as a straight-up scorer, is worrisome.

... and that's exactly my point. They've proven to be superstar wingers.. but how has their team as a whole benefited??



Patrick Kane, for example, is a left-handed shot and primarily a playmaking right-wing, despite this. They also employ Eriksson effectively as a right-wing. I don't think that that was such a big concern that they wouldn't have taken their player, when playing him on the off-wing would have always been a legitimate option, not to mention that MPS wasn't NHL-ready immediately, allowing the makeup of their left-wing plenty of time to change. Seguin was drafted by one of the deepest center pools in the league and Edmonton drafted Hall with MPS and Penner already..

MPS has struggled to score at lower levels? As in junior SEL levels? Why exactly is that a problem, when he's pretty much played outstanding for a kid his age in the Elitserien?

Pat Kane is a natural RW who can't play on the left-side, once again, you completely fail to address my point and state obvious facts. Loui Eriksson is a great example, but once again, I never said anything about Paajarvi being as left shot so he is ultimately a left-wing. I said that his play on the world stage and usually in the SEL has been on the left side, thus scouts saw him as a pure left-wing who couldn't make the conversion to the right. Even if Dallas hadn't converted Eriksson, look at that left side with Neal, Morrow, and Benn....where exactly is the room for Paajarvi there? Again, MPS will likely be a left-wing in Edmonton, because he's predominantly a playmaker...but Dallas still screwed up and didn't take the BPA.

So was Angelo Esposito.

This is all you have to argue? :laugh:

You don't know the reasons and thus they screwed up?

God forbid NHL GMs don't tell you everything, lest you go around sprouting garbage to slag them.

Well, if you haven't noticed already, the only team there which didn't have a legitimate reason for passing up MPS was Toronto.

Phoenix already had Turris and Boedker up front, so they wanted a high-end defenseman.

Dallas was stacked down 3-4 lines on the left side, so they went with a natural RW in Scott Glennie.

Ottawa wanted to add another defenseman if they couldn't get a center like Kadri, so they went with Cowen.

Again, these needs were all well-publicized heading into the draft.

If Toronto's excuse was that they needed a top-6 center, right after they signed Tyler Bozak, I think its pretty poor.

I just think that he has struggled, however mildly at lower-levels, to score - and that that will be exacerbated in the NHL. The fact that he is 'improving' this part of his game, rather than establishing himself as a straight-up scorer, is worrisome.

... and that's exactly my point. They've proven to be superstar wingers.. but how has their team as a whole benefited??



Patrick Kane, for example, is a left-handed shot and primarily a playmaking right-wing, despite this. They also employ Eriksson effectively as a right-wing. I don't think that that was such a big concern that they wouldn't have taken their player, when playing him on the off-wing would have always been a legitimate option, not to mention that MPS wasn't NHL-ready immediately, allowing the makeup of their left-wing plenty of time to change. Seguin was drafted by one of the deepest center pools in the league and Edmonton drafted Hall with MPS and Penner already..

I dont get how you can say MPS has struggled when Kadri was the one struggling when he had to face his hardest competition and that was in the World Juniors. Matching up to other countries top players and he couldn't do anything. MPS on the other hand has been so far outstanding in a mens league, he dominated at the world champions and was impressive in the world juniors. Kadri was good in the regular season and was pretty good in the playoffs but that really wasn't his hardest competition. His hardest competition was playing in the World Juniors, where he failed horribly. He was one of the worst players on Canada (IMO, he was the worst player) and was struggling, it was quite obvious. I don't get how you can say that MPS has struggled when he has done everything you could ask for, actually he has done more then we could ask for. We just wanted to him to improve his shot, do good in the SEL and do well in the World Juniors. He did all of that and did extremely well in the world champions, against men. What I'm trying to say is that you can't say MPS has been struggling when he has done more then Kadri has at this point.

What Dallas did was draft by need. They decided to go with a RW instead of the BPA. Patrick Kane and Hall are two complete different stories because they were the BPA according to scouts and they decided to go with them. You don't go around and try to change your first overall picks position unless he is comfortable there. Obviously the Oilers are going to try Hall at center and he has stated that he is comfortable playing there. If he does good at center, he will player there, if not, then he will be on the left side. Plus Penner can play RW. Sometimes steals happen, look at Kopitar, Duncan Keith etc. MPS could be a steal for the Oilers.

I dont get how you can say MPS has struggled when Kadri was the one struggling when he had to face his hardest competition and that was in the World Juniors. Matching up to other countries top players and he couldn't do anything. MPS on the other hand has been so far outstanding in a mens league, he dominated at the world champions and was impressive in the world juniors. Kadri was good in the regular season and was pretty good in the playoffs but that really wasn't his hardest competition. His hardest competition was playing in the World Juniors, where he failed horribly. He was one of the worst players on Canada (IMO, he was the worst player) and was struggling, it was quite obvious. I don't get how you can say that MPS has struggled when he has done everything you could ask for, actually he has done more then we could ask for. We just wanted to him to improve his shot, do good in the SEL and do well in the World Juniors. He did all of that and did extremely well in the world champions, against men. What I'm trying to say is that you can't say MPS has been struggling when he has done more then Kadri has at this point.

What Dallas did was draft by need. They decided to go with a RW instead of the BPA. Patrick Kane and Hall are two complete different stories because they were the BPA according to scouts and they decided to go with them. You don't go around and try to change your first overall picks position unless he is comfortable there. Obviously the Oilers are going to try Hall at center and he has stated that he is comfortable playing there. If he does good at center, he will player there, if not, then he will be on the left side. Plus Penner can play RW. Sometimes steals happen, look at Kopitar, Duncan Keith etc. MPS could be a steal for the Oilers.

What exactly did Kadri do (or not) at the World Juniors do to be the scapegoat of failure in the eyes of every Canadian?

Its getting rather ridiculous.

I dont get how you can say MPS has struggled when Kadri was the one struggling when he had to face his hardest competition and that was in the World Juniors. Matching up to other countries top players and he couldn't do anything. MPS on the other hand has been so far outstanding in a mens league, he dominated at the world champions and was impressive in the world juniors. Kadri was good in the regular season and was pretty good in the playoffs but that really wasn't his hardest competition. His hardest competition was playing in the World Juniors, where he failed horribly. He was one of the worst players on Canada (IMO, he was the worst player) and was struggling, it was quite obvious. I don't get how you can say that MPS has struggled when he has done everything you could ask for, actually he has done more then we could ask for. We just wanted to him to improve his shot, do good in the SEL and do well in the World Juniors. He did all of that and did extremely well in the world champions, against men. What I'm trying to say is that you can't say MPS has been struggling when he has done more then Kadri has at this point.

What exactly did MPS lead his team to in the WJCs? Kadri hardly struggled, infact, he beat stronger internal competition to play on the top line over Schenn, who was drafted before both MPS and Kadri. He also had the best faceoff % of any Canadian player, and when the game was on the line, guess who was out? Mr. Hall with the puck was a blackhole the entire tournament, but that's a different story for a different thread.

Did you even watch the WJCs?

The top-5 was pretty much set in stone. Everyone also expected Phoenix to take a defenseman, and Cowen was just coming off a major injury whereas OEL's stock had risen considerably.

Toronto stupidly took Nazem Kadri for reasons I have never known.

Dallas drafted by need, and with a plethora of LW's on the roster (Neal, Eriksson, Morrow, Benn) for both now and the future, they wanted a safe bet on a weak right side. Unfortunately, it wasn't revealed until afterward that Paajarvi can in fact play either wing position.
Ottawa was torn between either Cowen or Paajarvi, and they chose Cowen because Murray wanted to add to an excellent future blue line (Wiercioch, Cowen, Karlsson), and he also believed that he would be able to get some offense back once he traded Heatley (Edmonton and Ottawa were in deep discussions at the time).

So really, Toronto is the only team there that screwed up.

:laugh::laugh:
The world must have been in utter shock at this big reveal.

Dallas took Glennie because they thought he was the better player. So did the Leafs with Kadri. The excuses are hilarious though (honestly!).

What exactly did MPS lead his team to in the WJCs? Kadri hardly struggled, infact, he beat stronger internal competition to play on the top line over Schenn, who was drafted before both MPS and Kadri. He also had the best faceoff % of any Canadian player, and when the game was on the line, guess who was out? Mr. Hall with the puck was a blackhole the entire tournament, but that's a different story for a different thread.

Did you even watch the WJCs?

Taylor Hall was a black hole?:laugh:

That's why he was 2nd in team points (3rd in the entire tourney), and was voted as a top-3 player for Canada?

I agree he did not do the best job as a puck-distributor, but it was in fact more poor coaching by Willie Desjardins to put two players who control the puck as much as Kadri and Hall...on the same line.

MPS did not lead his team to victory, but he excelled and elevated the play of his linemates.

:laugh::laugh:
You're kidding?

Actually, I'm not.

Maybe, he can't at the NHL level, but he's known to have played both in the SEL.

I dont get how you can say MPS has struggled when Kadri was the one struggling when he had to face his hardest competition and that was in the World Juniors. Matching up to other countries top players and he couldn't do anything. MPS on the other hand has been so far outstanding in a mens league, he dominated at the world champions and was impressive in the world juniors. Kadri was good in the regular season and was pretty good in the playoffs but that really wasn't his hardest competition. His hardest competition was playing in the World Juniors, where he failed horribly. He was one of the worst players on Canada (IMO, he was the worst player) and was struggling, it was quite obvious. I don't get how you can say that MPS has struggled when he has done everything you could ask for, actually he has done more then we could ask for. We just wanted to him to improve his shot, do good in the SEL and do well in the World Juniors. He did all of that and did extremely well in the world champions, against men. What I'm trying to say is that you can't say MPS has been struggling when he has done more then Kadri has at this point.

What Dallas did was draft by need. They decided to go with a RW instead of the BPA. Patrick Kane and Hall are two complete different stories because they were the BPA according to scouts and they decided to go with them. You don't go around and try to change your first overall picks position unless he is comfortable there. Obviously the Oilers are going to try Hall at center and he has stated that he is comfortable playing there. If he does good at center, he will player there, if not, then he will be on the left side. Plus Penner can play RW. Sometimes steals happen, look at Kopitar, Duncan Keith etc. MPS could be a steal for the Oilers.

Kadri was one of the top scorers for Canada, he ws also the top center on team freakin CANADA. Do you know who he had to beat out for these positions? He was put out in pretty much every situation, he was a key player for the shoot-out etc.

Did you even watch the WJC's?

I dont get how you can say MPS has struggled when Kadri was the one struggling when he had to face his hardest competition and that was in the World Juniors. Matching up to other countries top players and he couldn't do anything. MPS on the other hand has been so far outstanding in a mens league, he dominated at the world champions and was impressive in the world juniors. Kadri was good in the regular season and was pretty good in the playoffs but that really wasn't his hardest competition. His hardest competition was playing in the World Juniors, where he failed horribly. He was one of the worst players on Canada (IMO, he was the worst player) and was struggling, it was quite obvious. I don't get how you can say that MPS has struggled when he has done everything you could ask for, actually he has done more then we could ask for. We just wanted to him to improve his shot, do good in the SEL and do well in the World Juniors. He did all of that and did extremely well in the world champions, against men. What I'm trying to say is that you can't say MPS has been struggling when he has done more then Kadri has at this point.



What a complete load of garbage. You really don't know anything about Kadri, so why are you trying to educate us about MPS? How did Kadri struggle in the World Juniors? He had 8 points in 6 games, had 2 key assists in the Gold Medal Game, was 70% on faceoffs, and scored an important shootout goal against the US. "He couldn't do anything"? Give me a freaking break. How did he "fail horribly" based on that? And how does that make him "Canada's worst player"? Did you even watch the WJs? Did you watch Jared Cowen? Brayden Schenn? Jake Allen? Those players had a worse tournament than Nazem Kadri. Anyways, your theory is total BS anyways, because if he was the worst player for Canada at the tournament, Desjardins wouldn't have played him so much in the final 5 minutes of the 3rd and in OT.

Kadri was "good in the regular season"? Yeah, I guess, seeing as he was 3rd in PPG behind Seguin + your golden boy. Oh, and "pretty good in the playoffs". I can't believe the bias you have in your argument. So MPS "dominated" the SEL :shakehead (:laugh:), but Kadri was only "pretty good" in the playoffs. OK. I see what you did there.

To sum it up: stop trolling and go back to the Oilers board where you can all swoon over your precious prospects together.

Actually, I'm not.

Maybe, he can't at the NHL level, but he's known to have played both in the SEL.

Yeah, and everyone would have known this. Its not exactly shocking that a winger can play both sides. Dallas did not take Glennie because they thought MPS could only play one wing- they took Glennie because he was the BPA.

Yeah, and everyone would have known this. Its not exactly shocking that a winger can play both sides. Dallas did not take Glennie because they thought MPS could only play one wing- they took Glennie because he was the BPA.

They screwed up!! :sarcasm:

What a complete load of garbage. You really don't know anything about Kadri, so why are you trying to educate us about MPS? How did Kadri struggle in the World Juniors? He had 8 points in 6 games, had 2 key assists in the Gold Medal Game, was 70% on faceoffs, and scored an important shootout goal against the US. "He couldn't do anything"? Give me a freaking break. How did he "fail horribly" based on that? And how does that make him "Canada's worst player"? Did you even watch the WJs? Did you watch Jared Cowen? Brayden Schenn? Jake Allen? Those players had a worse tournament than Nazem Kadri. Anyways, your theory is total BS anyways, because if he was the worst player for Canada at the tournament, Desjardins wouldn't have played him so much in the final 5 minutes of the 3rd and in OT.

Kadri was "good in the regular season"? Yeah, I guess, seeing as he was 3rd in PPG behind Seguin + your golden boy. Oh, and "pretty good in the playoffs". I can't believe the bias you have in your argument. So MPS "dominated" the SEL :shakehead (:laugh:), but Kadri was only "pretty good" in the playoffs. OK. I see what you did there.

To sum it up: stop trolling and go back to the Oilers board where you can all swoon over your precious prospects together.

What will really be fun is to see how his tune changes when Hall and MPS ask to be traded out of Edmonton in a couple of years.

Yeah, and everyone would have known this. Its not exactly shocking that a winger can play both sides. Dallas did not take Glennie because they thought MPS could only play one wing- they took Glennie because he was the BPA.

Glennie was the BPA? Also, where is it mentioned that all wingers can play both sides? Stop stating such BS. Kane, Ovechkin, Iginla, Semin, Kovalchuk, and Parise are all wingers who are absolute garbage when playing the opposite wing.

Want to start a poll between the two?

What will really be fun is to see how his tune changes when Hall and MPS ask to be traded out of Edmonton in a couple of years.

Classy, so you can't win an argument, so you start wishing ill on another franchise?

Also, the only players who ever have requested a trade are Souray and Pronger.....for very different reasons.

Well, if you haven't noticed already, the only team there which didn't have a legitimate reason for passing up MPS was Toronto.

Phoenix already had Turris and Boedker up front, so they wanted a high-end defenseman.

Dallas was stacked down 3-4 lines on the left side, so they went with a natural RW in Scott Glennie.

Ottawa wanted to add another defenseman if they couldn't get a center like Kadri, so they went with Cowen.

Again, these needs were all well-publicized heading into the draft.

If Toronto's excuse was that they needed a top-6 center, right after they signed Tyler Bozak, I think its pretty poor.

Toronto didnt have, or need an excuse, they took the player they though was the BEST Player Available!

okay, they did have an excuse, they felt Kadri was better than MSP, and would be a better NHL player than MSP.

Burke makes the 1st round picks himself, thus Kadri was the player he wanted. ...and until MPS can prove he can actually score at the NHL level his ability to score will remain suspect.

Kadri has also played 100% more games than MSP in the NHL :sarcasm: :D

Toronto didnt have, or need an excuse, they took the player they though was the BEST Player Available!

okay, they did have an excuse, they felt Kadri was better than MSP, and would be a better NHL player than MSP.

Burke makes the 1st round picks himself, thus Kadri was the player he wanted. ...and until MPS can prove he can actually score at the NHL level his ability to score will remain suspect.

Kadri has also played 100% more games than MSP in the NHL :sarcasm: :D

How does the same not apply for every prospect entering the NHL.

Also, MPS isn't expected to be a goal-scorer, as most actually see him scoring 20-25 goals in his prime (similar to Ales Hemsky).

They screwed up!! :sarcasm:

Why is that so hard to believe? In '05 Columbus and Chicago took Brule and Skille 6-7 before San Jose snatched up Setoguchi at 8. In that same Draft, Brian Lee went 9th and Anze Kopitar 11th. Teams make mistakes at the draft table.

Classy, so you can't win an argument, so you start wishing ill on another franchise?

Also, the only players who ever have requested a trade are Souray and Pronger.....for very different reasons.

I'm not wishing ill on another franchise, I'm mocking another poster's perspective.

I have nothing against the Oilers, they have a good young core to go with their disfunctional management team. They have awful weather, but they have enthusiastic fans who are loyal to their team. I admire that. I think they make a fine lower-tier NHL market.

But don't get me started on the Senators.

Why is that so hard to believe? In '05 Columbus and Chicago took Brule and Skille 6-7 before San Jose snatched up Setoguchi at 8. In that same Draft, Brian Lee went 9th and Anze Kopitar 11th. Teams make mistakes at the draft table.

It's been 1 year since the 2009 draft. Bit too early to say teams have screwed up, wouldn't you say?

How does the same not apply for every prospect entering the NHL.

Also, MPS isn't expected to be a goal-scorer, as most actually see him scoring 20-25 goals in his prime (similar to Ales Hemsky).

the big question about MSP on draft day, and the reason he dropped was that his finish ability was questionable, otherwise he'd have been a top 5 pick.

Why is that so hard to believe? In '05 Columbus and Chicago took Brule and Skille 6-7 before San Jose snatched up Setoguchi at 8. In that same Draft, Brian Lee went 9th and Anze Kopitar 11th. Teams make mistakes at the draft table.

Seto was an off the board pick, he was projected in the late teens ...Lee dropped 3-4 spots the same way Marc Staal dropped

It's been 1 year since the 2009 draft. Bit too early to say teams have screwed up, wouldn't you say?

Out of the 6 top-10 picks who didn't play in the NHL last year, MPS and OEL had the best years.

So, in retrospect, other GM's are looking like they've dropped the ball. All those prospects, except maybe Cowen, will be in the NHL next year...so teams can evaluate whether or not the right decisions were made at the time.

But for now, Toronto, LA, Dallas, and Ottawa are looking pretty stupid for passing up either OEL/MPS.

Out of the 6 top-10 picks who didn't play in the NHL last year, MPS and OEL had the best years.

So, in retrospect, other GM's are looking like they've dropped the ball. All those prospects, except maybe Cowen, will be in the NHL next year...so teams can evaluate whether or not the right decisions were made at the time.

But for now, Toronto, LA, Dallas, and Ottawa are looking pretty stupid for passing up either OEL/MPS.

OEL was drafted 6th. None of those teams, except for LA who drafted a very good centreman, passed up on OEL. Toronto, Ottawa, Dallas have all had success drafting Swedish players, so I would take their "stupid reasonings" over yours, anyday of the week.

MPS MIGHT have had the best year (I disagree), it still doesn't change the fact that none of these players have played in the NHL (enough games in the NHL in Kadri's case). And teams are looking stupid? :laugh: Brayden Schenn, Nazem Kadri are very good prospects. Glennie and Cowen will turn out good for the Stars/Sens. It's not like MPS is this incoming superstar, offensive talent....

OEL was drafted 6th. None of those teams, except for LA who drafted a very good centreman, passed up on OEL. Toronto, Ottawa, Dallas have all had success drafting Swedish players, so I would take their "stupid reasonings" over yours, anyday of the week.

MPS MIGHT have had the best year (I disagree), it still doesn't change the fact that none of these players have played in the NHL (enough games in the NHL in Kadri's case). And teams are looking stupid? :laugh: Brayden Schenn, Nazem Kadri are very good prospects. Glennie and Cowen will turn out good for the Stars/Sens. It's not like MPS is this incoming superstar, offensive talent....

You are completely right, but with the season OEL and MPS had, teams are looking stupid for passing them up regardless. I also agree, MPS is likely not some huge superstar.

Also, both Ekman-Larsson and Paajarvi had exceptional seasons, its pretty much a two-horse race between them.

You are completely right, but with the season OEL and MPS had, teams are looking stupid for passing them up regardless. I also agree, MPS is likely not some huge superstar.

Also, both Ekman-Larsson and Paajarvi had exceptional seasons, its pretty much a two-horse race between them.

No, not really (in MPS' case). None of those teams, outside the top 6, had the chance to draft OEL.

Well, if you haven't noticed already, the only team there which didn't have a legitimate reason for passing up MPS was Toronto.

Phoenix already had Turris and Boedker up front, so they wanted a high-end defenseman.

Dallas was stacked down 3-4 lines on the left side, so they went with a natural RW in Scott Glennie.

Ottawa wanted to add another defenseman if they couldn't get a center like Kadri, so they went with Cowen.

Again, these needs were all well-publicized heading into the draft.

That's a load of bull. Nobody drafts by need, you draft the BPA.

No, not really (in MPS' case). None of those teams, outside the top 6, had the chance to draft OEL.

LA did, and that was my point, that they took Schenn whereas the pick right after Brayden had a much more successful season.

That's a load of bull. Nobody drafts by need, you draft the BPA.

If you actually think Glennie and Kadri are better players than MPS at this point, I really can't help you any further.

LA did, and that was my point, that they took Schenn whereas the pick right after Brayden had a much more successful season.

Are you serious? It's been 1 year....:facepalm:

If you actually think Glennie and Kadri are better players than MPS at this point, I really can't help you any further.

You can, by not spewing your bull here.

We asked this very question today at CTC.

Nazem Kadri or Magnus Paajarvi-Svensson? (http://www.crashthecrease.com/2010/08/26/nazem-kadri-or-magnus-paajarvi-svensson/)

If MPS turns out to be better then Kadri then I think he turns out to be better then most of the players picked before him.

Both will be very good NHLers but its tough to tell until they play in the NHL.

The right pick? Are you serious? It's been 1 year....:facepalm:

Reading comprehension is not a strength of yours, is it?

The right pick? Are you serious? It's been 1 year....:facepalm:



You can, by not spewing your bull here.

Can you not read? I said pick right after, not right pick.:laugh:

By not spewing my bull? Start a poll then, and see the results, and then tell me if I'm the only fool on this board.

Well, if you haven't noticed already, the only team there which didn't have a legitimate reason for passing up MPS was Toronto.

Phoenix already had Turris and Boedker up front, so they wanted a high-end defenseman.

Dallas was stacked down 3-4 lines on the left side, so they went with a natural RW in Scott Glennie.

Ottawa wanted to add another defenseman if they couldn't get a center like Kadri, so they went with Cowen.

Again, these needs were all well-publicized heading into the draft.

:facepalm:

Nobody drafts for need, well certainly the Sens do not at least. B Murray has ALWAYS said that he would draft the BPA regardless of position. He had mentioned in 2009 that if he could he would take a forward he would. Turns out he took Cowen. Post draft he said that he couldn't pass up Cowen to take the next best forward on thier list.

Even this year when it was very well documented that the Sens really wanted a forward and preferably a centreman, they were prepared to draft Forbort (the BPA to them) but he was snatched up by LA one pick earlier.

Heck they even dealt thier pick for another defenceman in Rundblad whom they beleive was a top 10 talent had he been in this years draft....

Your argument of Dallas is ridiculous, because other then Vishnovski (when he was Stars property), Dallas had terrible d prospect depth. Their fans wanted a defenceman badly and were hoping for one of OEL, Cowen or Kulikov.

:facepalm:

Nobody drafts for need, well certainly the Sens do not at least. B Murray has ALWAYS said that he would draft the BPA regardless of position. He had mentioned in 2009 that if he could he would take a forward he would. Turns out he took Cowen. Post draft he said that he couldn't pass up Cowen to take the next best forward on thier list.

Even this year when it was very well documented that the Sens really wanted a forward and preferably a centreman, they were prepared to draft Forbort (the BPA to them) but he was snatched up by LA one pick earlier.

Heck they even dealt thier pick for another defenceman in Rundblad whom they beleive was a top 10 talent had he been in this years draft....

Your argument of Dallas is ridiculous, because other then Vishnovski (when he was Stars property), Dallas had terrible d prospect depth. Their fans wanted a defenceman badly and were hoping for one of OEL, Cowen or Kulikov.

You make some great arguments for Ottawa, and I agreed with you, that Ottawa took Cowen as a 2nd option to Kadri as they were pursuing a centerman. Dallas was kind of a win now mode, and defenseman take a lot longer to develop. Their fan base was actually calling for MPS exclusively, much like ours was.

Unfortunately, you never mentioned why Toronto made the decision they did.

Reading comprehension is not a strength of yours, is it?

Keep your hair on. If you read carefully, he implies OEL was the right pick for LA:

No, not really (in MPS' case). None of those teams, outside the top 6, had the chance to draft OEL.


LA did, and that was my point, that they took Schenn whereas the pick right after Brayden had a much more successful season.

---------------------------------------
Can you not read? I said pick right after, not right pick.:laugh:

By not spewing my bull? Start a poll then, and see the results, and then tell me if I'm the only fool on this board.

Lol wut? You quoted me and said OEL had the better season than Brayden (basically the premises of any of your arguments involving MPS....that he had a better season last year, thus a better prospect), implying he would've been a better pick.

Why am I even bothering?

Keep your hair on. If you read carefully, he implies OEL was the right pick for LA:



To which he replies:



---------------------------------------


Lol wut? You quoted me and said OEL had the better season than Brayden, implying he would've been a better pick.

Why am I even bothering?

No, I said that OEL was the PICK TAKEN AFTER Brayden Schenn, and he had a much more successful season.

Would OEL have been redundant in LA, especially with Doughty, Johnson, Greene, Hickey, and Teubert? Definitely, but he had an exceptional season in the Elitserien, and is arguably the best prospect out of that list who didn't crack an NHL roster last year (MPS a close 2nd). It doesn't matter what would have been the better pick for LA, because OEL is the better prospect than Schenn right now.

You make some great arguments for Ottawa, and I agreed with you, that Ottawa took Cowen as a 2nd option to Kadri as they were pursuing a centerman. Dallas was kind of a win now mode, and defenseman take a lot longer to develop. Their fan base was actually calling for MPS exclusively, much like ours was.

Unfortunately, you never mentioned why Toronto made the decision they did.

If Dallas was truly in win now mode like you say and that's a reason for drafting Glennie, why didn't he play last year?

I never failed to mention the Leafs as others have defended the pick well.


Pretty simple when it comes to the Kadri pick. They beleive that he will end up being the better player. They liked him more then Cowen, MPS and Glennie. Pretty simple if you ask me.

Also had OEL been available, the Sens were planning on taking him as he was quite high on their list. He was the player if you remember B Murray talking about who had potential to "be better then Hedman"...

You make some great arguments for Ottawa, and I agreed with you, that Ottawa took Cowen as a 2nd option to Kadri as they were pursuing a centerman. Dallas was kind of a win now mode, and defenseman take a lot longer to develop. Their fan base was actually calling for MPS exclusively, much like ours was.

Unfortunately, you never mentioned why Toronto made the decision they did.

Kadri was the BPA and he filled a huge need for the organization.

No, I said that OEL was the PICK TAKEN AFTER Brayden Schenn, and he had a much more successful season.

Would OEL have been redundant in LA, especially with Doughty, Johnson, Greene, Hickey, and Teubert? Definitely, but he had an exceptional season in the Elitserien, and is arguably the best prospect out of that list who didn't crack an NHL roster last year (MPS a close 2nd). It doesn't matter what would have been the better pick for LA, because OEL is the better prospect than Schenn right now.

Your argument over and over again that teams draft for need is sillyness. 10 years from now heck even 5 years from now, Doughty might be the onlly remaning player on that list that still plays in LA so passing OEL in favor of a forward is silly.


No GM can predict the future on what their team is going to look like in 5 years time. However a GM can try and predict what a prospect might turn out to be in 5 years time. That's why they draft BPA.

At the draft a team drafts BPA.

Team needs can be solved at any other time during the year via trades and free agency...

If you could redo the draft picks 5-10, considering none played in the NHL last year, how would you have it?

If you could redo the draft picks 5-10, considering none played in the NHL last year, how would you have it?

Well prior to the draft I had Kulikov in my top 8 and Glennie outside my top 10. Do I still get to use him?

Here are my pre 2009 draft rankings.

1. Tavares
2. Hedman
3. Duchene
4. Kane
5. OEL
6. MSP
7. Schenn
8. Cowen
9. Kulikov
10. Kadri

Here are my 2010 rankings

1. Tavares
2. Duchene
3. Hedman
4. OEL
5. Kane
6. MSP
7. Kulikov
8. Schenn
9. Kadri
10. Cowen



Not much has changed. Duchene and Hedman have flipped and so has OEL and Kane. Kulikov moved up to 7 and Kadri to 9. Cowen and Schenn have dropped for me...

If you could redo the draft picks 5-10, considering none played in the NHL last year, how would you have it?

I see no need to second guess professional hockey people who put a lot of money and effort into evaluating prospects, before they have played any time in the NHL. A bunch of kids think they are smarter but that's not me.

Leafs never had a chance for Larsson, so that's not a consideration.

However, I'd have taken Svensson before Kadri.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hockey/columnist/woodlief/2009-06-08-red-line-defensemen_N.htm

RED LINE REPORT'S TOP 10 DEFENSEMEN FOR THE 2009 DRAFT

Rank Name Ht./Wt. Shoots Birthdate 2008-09 Team Projected Round

1. Victor Hedman 6-6/220 R 18 DEC 90 MoDo 1
2. Oliver Ekman-Larsson 6-1/172 L 17 JUL 91 Leksand 1
3. Jared Cowen 6-5/218 R 25 JAN 91 Spokane 1
4. Dmitri Kulikov 6-0/187 L 29 OCT 90 Drummondville 1
5. David Rundblad 6-2/189 R 08 OCT 90 Skelleftea 1
6. Ryan Ellis 5-9/178 R 03 JAN 91 Windsor 1
7. Charles Roussel 6-1/203 R 13 SEP 91 Shawinigan 1
8. Nick Leddy 5-11/173 L 20 MAR 91 Eden Prairie H.S. 1
9. Calvin de Haan 6-0/171 L 09 MAY 91 Oshawa 1
10. John Moore 6-2/190 L 19 NOV 90 Chicago 1



http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hockey/columnist/woodlief/2009-05-29-red-line-forwards_N.htm

Rank Name Pos. Ht./Wt. Shoots Birthdate 2008-09 Team Projected Round

1. Matt Duchene C 5-11/196 L 16 JAN 91 Brampton 1
2. John Tavares C 6-0/198 L 20 SEPT 90 London 1
3. Brayden Schenn C 6-0/197 L 22 AUG 91 Brandon 1
4. Evander Kane LW 6-1/170 L 01 AUG 91 Vancouver 1
5. Magnus Paajarvi LW 6-1/203 L 12 APR 91 Timra 1
6. Louis Leblance C 6-0/177 R 26 JAN 91 Omaha 1
7. Jordan Schroeder RW 5-8/173 R 29 SEPT 90 Univ. of Minnesota 1
8. Jeremy Morin LW 6-0/193 R 16 APR 91 U.S. NTDP U-18 1
9. Zack Kassian RW 6-3/208 R 24 JAN 91 Peterborough 1
10. Nazem Kadri C 5-11/178 L 06 OCT 90 London 1



Sleepers:

Both Jerry D'Amigo and Kyle Clifford flew under the radar a bit despite coming from hockey scouting hotbeds in Ann Arbor, Mich. and Ontario.

D'Amigo, a New York native who has been a member of the U.S. Under-18 team, has been overlooked a bit since he was not considered one of the flashy offensive stars of the national program. But he was consistently one of their most effective two-way performers all season, and has really worked hard in his two years with the Ann Arbor-based team rounding out the skills portion of his game. His puckhandling and finish around the net have improved vastly while he maintained his blue collar, lunch-pail work ethic.

Here are my 2010 rankings

1. Glennie
2. Glennie
3. Glennie
4. Tavares
5. Duchene
6. Hedman
7. OEL
8. Kane
9. MSP
10. Kadri

Out of the 6 top-10 picks who didn't play in the NHL last year, MPS and OEL had the best years.

So, in retrospect, other GM's are looking like they've dropped the ball. All those prospects, except maybe Cowen, will be in the NHL next year...so teams can evaluate whether or not the right decisions were made at the time.

But for now, Toronto, LA, Dallas, and Ottawa are looking pretty stupid for passing up either OEL/MPS.

MSP 2009-10 Timra IK SEL 49 12 17 29 6 5 0 1 1 2
OEL 2009-10 Leksands IF Swe-1 42 9 18 27 98
Kadri 2009-10 London Knights OHL 56 35 58 93 105 12 9 18 27 26
Schenn 2009-10 Brandon Wheat Kings WHL 59 34 65 99 55 15 8 11 19 2

Wow, those are some earth shattering numbers they put up.
oh yea, the 'they are playing against men' line is due next, but, then i will point out that these MEN they are playing against are NOT talented enough to play in the NHL!! ...that's why they are in the SEL

Top scorer on MSP's team was Daniel Corso 1978-04-03 31 C 49 16 28 44 68 1 0 1 1 2 ...a former 7th round pick, and he outscored the great MSP by a fair margin for the SEL ...if OEL had played as many games as MSP, he would have had more points than MSP.

Taylor Hall was a black hole?:laugh:

That's why he was 2nd in team points (3rd in the entire tourney), and was voted as a top-3 player for Canada?

I agree he did not do the best job as a puck-distributor, but it was in fact more poor coaching by Willie Desjardins to put two players who control the puck as much as Kadri and Hall...on the same line.

MPS did not lead his team to victory, but he excelled and elevated the play of his linemates.

It's become abundantly clear through this thread that you favor the Oilers and their players. Maybe you like to keep tabs on the Leafs, but your words absolutely show that they are a distant second. It's not like I'm the only one saying this. When he got the puck, he was either scoring or losing it. So much so, that I think he led Canada in giveaways. There's a reason Canada didn't win, and that reason is that its star players didn't elevate their game. Alot was riding on Hall and fair or not, he didn't really deliver when it mattered.

Take a look through the game threads if your curious. Your acting through this thread as if MPS (and now Hall) don't have their own warts which just isn't the case at all.

It's become abundantly clear through this thread that you favor the Oilers and their players. Maybe you like to keep tabs on the Leafs, but your words absolutely show that they are a distant second. It's not like I'm the only one saying this. When he got the puck, he was either scoring or losing it. So much so, that I think he led Canada in giveaways. There's a reason Canada didn't win, and that reason is that its star players didn't elevate their game. Alot was riding on Hall and fair or not, he didn't really deliver when it mattered.

Take a look through the game threads if your curious. Your acting through this thread as if MPS (and now Hall) don't have their own warts which just isn't the case at all.

Actually, I'll defend either team if someone makes an judgmental analysis on a player/prospect without backing their statement up.

So what, Hall was either scoring or losing it, does it change the fact that he finished 3rd overall in tournament scoring? Or that he was selected as one of Canada's top-3 players throughout the tournament. Hall carried Kadri and Nemisz, and if anything, Nemisz was the biggest bag of suck on the entire team. Everyone says he disappeared in the two biggest games, but the way I see it, he showed huge flashes of brilliance in the NYE game against the Yanks, whereas he did have a poor game in the gold medal final

Of course MPS and Hall have their own warts (MPS has questions surrounding his ability to become an elite goal-scorer, and Hall has doubts about him on whether or not he will sustain an injury-free career with the recklessness of his game), but it doesn't change the fact that both are at a higher level (especially Hall) than Kadri.

You continue to disregard the fact that Hall has pretty much been touted to be the 1st overall pick since mid-way into his rookie season in the OHL, a lot like Steven Stamkos. I find no reason for you to actually categorize a potential franchise winger with a guy we hope can be a 1st line center.