EC Day #6: England v Switzerland / Croatia v France GDT

Day 6 now, We're back in group B, with France, England and co.

Standings in Group B (http://uk.sports.yahoo.com/football/europeanchampionship/standing/groupstage/groupb/full_standing.html)

Today's matches:

England v Switzerland

GROUP B
Venue: Coimbra stadium, Coimbra City
Date/time: Thur, 17 June, 1800 CET
Referee: Valentin Ivanov (Russia)
Team News: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/euro_2004/3787495.stm


Croatia v France

GROUP B
Venue: Dr Magalhaes Pessoa stadium, Leiria
Date/time: Thur, 17 June, 2045 CET
Referee: Kim Milton Nielsen (Denmark)
Team News: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/euro_2004/3813635.stm


******** Predictions **********



Portugal v Greece: 2-0 (Figo)
Spain v Russia: 2-1 (Raul Gonzalez Blanco)
Switzerland v Croatia: 2-1 (Frei)
France v England: 1-1 (Owen)
Denmark v Italy: 0-2 (Totti)
Sweden v Bulgaria: 1-1 (Berbatov)
Czech Republic v Latvia: 3-0 (Baros)
Germany v Holland: 1-2 (Ruud)
Greece v Spain: 0-2 (F Torres)
Russia v Portugal: 1-3 (Pauleta)

15 Points as of now

Today:
England v Switzerland 2-0 (Gerrard ;))
Croatia v France 1-3 (Trézéguet)

Enjoy the games and the discussion

Portugal - Greece: 3-1 (Pauleta)
Spain - Russia: 2-1 (Morientes)
Switzerland - Croatia: 2-1 (Frei)
France - England: 2-0 (Henry)
Denmark - Italy: 1-2 (Totti)
Sweden - Bulgaria: 1-0 (Larsson)
Czech Republic - Latvia: 3-0 (Rosicky)
Germany - Netherlands: 1-2 (Ballack)
Greece - Spain: 0-2 (Raúl)
Russia - Portugal: 1-2 (Pauleta)

Makes a total of 18 points.

Today:
England - Switzerland: 1-1 (Frei)
Croatia-France: 0-2 (Henry)

12 pts + 3 = 15 pts.

Spain 2 : 0 Greece (Raul) 0 pts
Russia 1 : 2 Portugal (figo) 3 pts

Day 6

England 3 : 0 Swiss(Owen)
Croatia 1 : 2 France(Henry)

30 points so far..

England 2 : 1 Switserland (Rooney)
Croatia 0 : 2 France (Henry)

England 2 - 0 switzerland (Rooney
Croatia 0 - 3 France (Henry)

England supposedly playing with a diamond in midfield. Team should be

James

Neville Terry Campbell Cole

Gerrard
Beckham Lampard
Scholes

Rooney Owen

Prefer 4-4-2 but still think we are stong enough to win! Think its a disgrace Ledley King has been dropped!!!

Think its a disgrace Ledley King has been dropped!!!

Say what? King was England's best defender against the French, period. He had Henry, one of, if not *the* best striker in the world, in his pocket all game long. What's the reasoning behind this disgrace?

Day 1
Portugal 2 : 1 Greece (C. Ronaldo)
Spain 2 : 0 Russia (F. Morientes)
Day 2
France 2 : 1 England (T. Henry)
Switzerland 1 : 0 Croatia (A. Frei)
Day 3
Denmark 1 : 2 Italy (A. Del Piero)
Sweden 2 : 1 Bulgaria (H. Larsson)
Day 4
Czech Republic 2 : 1 Latvia (M. Baros)
Germany 2 : 2 Holland (R. van Nistelrooy)
Day 5
Greece 1 : 2 Spain (F. Morientes)
Russia 1 : 2 Portugal (Pauleta)

39 points so far.

Day 6
England 2 : 1 Switzerland (Owen)
Croatia 0 : 2 France (Henry)

Nobody knows why he is picking John Terry! Sven goran eriksson is a very bizarre strange manager. We play great at 4-4-2 against the best team in the world he changes the formation the next game. He then takes out arguably the best defender we had for no apparent reason for his first choice centre back pairing. Now dont get me wrong I think Terry is an exceptionally good defender and future england captain, but im of the mould where if you dont have a bad game you shouldnt be dropped. In the King case he was exceptional,he has good pace,good in the air and good on the ball. I think at international football you have to have that added piece of pace! I also think he would cope better in the heat than Terry as well! SVEN GORAN ERIKSSON :banghead:

Day 1

Portugal 2:1 Greece (Pauleta)
Spain 3:1 Russia (Raul)

Day 2

Swiss - Croatia 2-1 (Hakan Yakin)
France - England 3-1 (Henry)

Day 3:
Denmark v Italy: 0-2 (Totti)
Sweden v Bulgaria: 2-1 (Larsson)


Day 4
Czech Republic 3 : 1 Latvia (M. Baros)

Germany 3 : 1 Holland (M. Ballack)


Day 5
Greece 0 : 2 Spain (Raul)
Russia 0 : 2 Portugal (Pauleta)

That is 24 Points in total
---------------------------------

Day 6

England 3 : 1 Switzerland (Owen)
Croatia 0 : 2 France (Henry)

We play great at 4-4-2 against the best team in the world he changes the formation the next game.

Do you forget that quickly? What exactly was 'great' about the England performance?
England created exaclty 1 chance (due to an individual effort by Rooney) and for the rest of the game they created nothing at all. Scholes and Beckham (the two 'wingers' in the 4-4-2) did very little the entire match.
The only good thing was the defense and apart from King those four guys will stay in the same positions.


He then takes out arguably the best defender we had for no apparent reason for his first choice centre back pairing. Now dont get me wrong I think Terry is an exceptionally good defender and future england captain, but im of the mould where if you dont have a bad game you shouldnt be dropped. In the King case he was exceptional,he has good pace,good in the air and good on the ball. I think at international football you have to have that added piece of pace! I also think he would cope better in the heat than Terry as well! SVEN GORAN ERIKSSON :banghead:

I agree that King was good, but Terry is simply the better defender. I can understand that people find it a strange move to replace him after such a stellar game, but his pace will not be so much required today and Terry's a better leader and more dangerous going forward on set pieces. And chances are that that's going to be the only area in wich England will have a true advantage on the Swiss. Because playing a pass and ove game in these temperatures is pretty hard...

We play great at 4-4-2 against the best team in the world he changes the formation the next game.
Two things:
- Even with a diamond midfield it can still be called a 4-4-2 (sorry could not resist...)
- It's a huge difference whether you play against France (must-not-lose game) or against Switzerland (must-win game). So I'd actually expect him to make adjustments, because they need to play more offensive (as BF has already pointed out, they did not do that in game 1). You simply cannot play a destructive tactic against an outsider.

**** it, king should not have been dropped :banghead:
(and please start Robinson in goal)

England 3 Switzerland 0 (Gerard)
Croatia 0 France 2 (Gallas)

I added 6 points yesterday (Morientes + portugal win).
So 36 points total.

England 2-0 Switzerland (Owen)
France 4-0 Crotia (Henry)

The main reasoning I think we should play 4-4-2 is they have looked more creative in the games they have played with 4-4-2. The players are more used to playing 4-4-2 as most sides in england play this style! Gerrard is not effective enough at the back of a diamond. Lampard on the left is not great either! I also thought beckham played alot better in out on the right than he has for a while! I'll also admit it I dont like SVEN GORAN ERIKSSON so whatever he does ill moan about :D !

Do you forget that quickly? What exactly was 'great' about the England performance?
England created exactly 1 chance (due to an individual effort by Rooney) and for the rest of the game they created nothing at all.
:teach:

:highclap:

England v Switzerland 2-0 (Owen)
France v Croatia 3-0 (Trézéguet)

DAY 1: 3 points
DAY 2: 6 points
DAY 3: 3 points
DAY 4: 6 points
DAY 5: 6 points
---------------------
TOTAL: 24 points

England 1 : 0 Switzerland (Rooney)
Croatia 0 : 3 France (Henry)

18 points so far.

England - Switzerland 2-1 (Beckham)
Croatia - France 0-3 (Zizou)

=====================================
Spain 2 - 0 Russia (Raul) - 3
Portugal 3 - 1 Greece (Nuno Gomes) - 0
=====================================
France 1 - 1 England (Scholes) - 0
Switzerland 0 - 1 Croatia (Pršo) - 0
=====================================
Denmark 1 - 2 Italy (Jon-Dahl) - 0
Sweden 1 - 1 Bulgaria (Larsson) - 3
=====================================
Czech Republic 2 - 0 Latvia (Nedved) - 3
Germany 1 - 2 Netherlands (Van Nistelrooy) - 3
=====================================
Greece 0 - 1 Spain (Raul) - 0
Russia 1 - 1 Portugal (Pauleta) - 0
=====================================
England 1 - 0 Switzerland (Owen)
Croatia 2 - 1 France (Henry)

Rooney scores to make it 1-0. Which means 3 points for me regardless of the outcome.. :banana:

Whoops, just a bit late...

Oh well, just the prediction for the other game:

France-Croatia 2-0 (Pires)

Dear oh DEAR this game sucks. Quite possibly the worst game I’ve ever seen in my life.

How can England continuously field such horrible teams and yet maintain a ‘Favorite’ status?

Dear oh DEAR this game sucks. Quite possibly the worst game I’ve ever seen in my life.

How can England continuously field such horrible teams and yet maintain a ‘Favorite’ status?

And incredibly, they win 3-0! Very strange game as it was not a very good performance by England IMO. The Swiss really helped them with a silly sending off at the hour mark, an own goal by the goalie and another great miss by the same goalie on the third goal.
I suspect that England will qualify and play Greece in the quarter finals.

France 1 - 1 England (Scholes) - 0
Croatia 2 - 1 France (Henry)

You don't like France much Frolov, huh?

I saw two good performances: Wayne Rooney (though only the first 45 minutes) and Steven Gerrard (dominated the game for 70 minutes)

The rest of the England team was very bad once again. They won't go far with David James in goal. Usually when a cross comes in a couple of feet away from the keeper he should go out and grab it, but James prefers letting the ball fly past him wich leads to very dangerous situations.

The defense wasn't rock solid either.
The midfield lacks footballing ability. Scholes hasn't shown up this far, Lampard had a few good moves but wasn't very good throughout the match. Beckham had two good touches and was invisible for the rest. And Owen, well he continued his sloppy season form. Vassel did well when he came in.

The Swiss could have gotten a draw with a bit of luck. Even though I would say the red card was acceptable this time. But on the other hand, what did you guys think of Rooney on Stiel? IMO that could've been a red one as well, and that would have meant a whole different game!

So far I have 18 points. I was too late for the 'guess the score' competition on the England game.

Croatia-France: 0-2 (trezeguet)

You don't like France much Frolov, huh?

What did I wrong this time ? Jean-Francois Bernard has always been my favorite cyclist..

Dear oh DEAR this game sucks. Quite possibly the worst game I’ve ever seen in my life.

How can England continuously field such horrible teams and yet maintain a ‘Favorite’ status?

because they're England

England won 3-0. Bad or not, they got the result and thats what count.

What did I wrong this time ? Jean-Francois Bernard has always been my favorite cyclist..
Lol...
Nothing I was just wondering why you kept going against the odds when it comes to France ;)
Your prediciton usually favour the biggest team except when it comes to France, so I was wondering if there was something you had against french cheese... :)

2-1 Prso..

Major brainfart by Dessailly there..

seemed like offside as well..

Croatia 2 - 1 France (Henry)[/COLOR]He is looking like a genius right about now!

France has just blown a 1-0 lead to Croatia, and are now down 2-1 in the 55th minute. VERY interesting group this is now....

He is looking like a genius right about now!

I didn't see the game untill the penalty, so who scored the 1-0 for France? Henry? And also, what and who caused the penalty?

I didn't see the game untill the penalty, so who scored the 1-0 for France? Henry? And also, what and who caused the penalty?

Tudor scored the own goal that made it 1-0 France. I don't know what caused the penalty.

2-2 now. Trezeguet scored.

O my. The ref has to see that hands by Trezeguet before his goal.

not intentional IMO

Oh no, Mornar is on the pitch! :shakehead

Not impressed by france. Not at all.

So does everyone understand now why I put Croatia on the coveted #1 spot of my diver rankings??

Trézéguet's goal, difficult to say something about it. It was a clear handball, but there's no way that was intentional, as he coulnd't react on that short notice. I think it was a valid goal.

Anyway it compensated for the 'penalty' earlier.


And Mornar, my god what a chance did he miss there!

Well well, France officially sucks.
Seems to me they're closer to WC 02 than Euro 00 right now.
No energy, no creativity (though the croatians made it difficult by fouling in midfield every time France had some space).
Trezeguet has been awful as usual (recently I mean), and Henry has been average at best.
Wiltord made good things happen, like Pires, but Silvestre was bad, Thuram was under average and nearly caused a goal hitting Barthez.
Desailly was OK except for the incredible blunder that led to Prso's goal.
I missed about 2 minutes and actually missed the foul that gave them the penalty (I only returned when the shooter was scoring).
Can anyone give me details about the foul (who fouled whom? Was it deserved?)?
A team that gives up two penalties in two games is a struggling team and France is struggling big time right now.
They've scored off two Zidane free kicks and otherwise, their other two goals were scored because of defensive blunders by other teams.
That won't get them far.

Can't believe how weak they are right now.
Awful showing.

I think the handball was intentional but it the play should still be called since there was no chance in hell that Trezeguet would have got that ball under control without using his hand. Good for france though, their first "real" goal..

Great creative play by the french attack so far:

Freekick - bad goalie play
Penalty - ...
Freekick - 100% luck (and own goal by the croatian defender)
and last - The unintentional hand of god!

Croatia doesn't dive a lot compared to Spain, Portugal and Italy. Especially the Spanish drop all the time.
Italy is lucky Inzaghi isn't there, he falls every time, even if there is nobody near him...


According to the rules, it is intentional as soon as the arm is not in a normal position. Having one arm stretched out is not a normal position, so it was intentional. It doesn't matter, if he could react fast enough.

Even if it weren't, unintentionally use of the hand still has to be called, so it's a clear non-goal.

Well well, France officially sucks.
Seems to me they're closer to WC 02 than Euro 00 right now.
No energy, no creativity (though the croatians made it difficult by fouling in midfield every time France had some space).
Trezeguet has been awful as usual (recently I mean), and Henry has been average at best.
Wiltord made good things happen, like Pires, but Silvestre was bad, Thuram was under average and nearly caused a goal hitting Barthez.
Desailly was OK except for the incredible blunder that led to Prso's goal.
I missed about 2 minutes and actually missed the foul that gave them the penalty (I only returned when the shooter was scoring).
Can anyone give me details about the foul (who fouled whom? Was it deserved?)?
A team that gives up two penalties in two games is a struggling team and France is struggling big time right now.
They've scored off two Zidane free kicks and otherwise, their other two goals were scored because of defensive blunders by other teams.
That won't get them far.

Can't believe how weak they are right now.
Awful showing.

Isn't that odd.. the Dutch have the exact same problem.. So many weapons yet such a low amount of real scoring oppertunities.. It's so frustrating..

Trezeguet : "Mais on est content du travail qu'on a fait ce soir, même si on espérait la victoire. On a montré des qualités énormes. Encore une fois, je suis content car on a fait un bon match même si on a fait match nul."

Translation :
"But we're happy with the work we've done tonight, even if we were hoping to win. We showed tremendous qualities. Once again, I'm happy because we played well even if we came out with a draw."

:lol: :lol:

I've just read somewhere that Silvestre was the one responsible for the penalty AGAIN.

Before blasting him once more, I'd like to know if it was a deserved penalty...
Anyone can help?

I've just read somewhere that Silvestre was the one responsible for the penalty AGAIN.

Before blasting him once more, I'd like to know if it was a deserved penalty...
Anyone can help?

He barely touched the guy, but Silvestre was behind him so...bad idea by Silvestre, horrible dive by the Croatian player.

edit: I mean Silvestre "pushed" the guy from behind

Despite the poor performance as a team, ZZ was still on top. Did you see that flick from the corner kick? :amazed:

Despite the poor performance as a team, ZZ was still on top. Did you see that flick from the corner kick? :amazed:

Yeah, that was a pretty, pretty, pretty flick. And it's not like he practices those all the time, so you know most of it has to do purely with talent, reaction, and class.

I've just read somewhere that Silvestre was the one responsible for the penalty AGAIN.

Before blasting him once more, I'd like to know if it was a deserved penalty...
Anyone can help?

It was a schwalbe, no fault.

Silvestre is poorly positioned on the penalty and you know that most of striker will not be asked twice to go to the floor.

I agree with Evilo: We suck.
Awful game by France, no pace, no idea, not much defense either. I can't believe we score four goals in two games when we barely created 2 chances in total.
Tonight Croatia scored two goals for us, thank you very much. We just can't be so lucky forever.

Switzerland just can't believe it tonight: They can still qualify by beating France.
And I am worried that the french players don't even think that Switzerland can ever them beat. Could this be another gigantic upset for France?

To come back to the game tonight, I think that Santini has to change his line up because it just doesn't work. Strikers don't combine together, there isn't any player wide and no dynamism whatsoever. In defense I also think we need to go back to basic.

I suggest some changes:

Barthez
Thuram-Desailly-Gallas-Lizarazu
Pires-Makelele-Vieira-Rothen
Zidane
Henry

Rothen and Pires play wide. I am not a big fan of Desailly but Desailly and Gallas are used to play together.
If the game is blocked then you have got the option to bring Trezeguet in to try to change the style of the attck and disturb the defense.

Oh well, pure speculation here!

What did I wrong this time ? Jean-Francois Bernard has always been my favorite cyclist..

Great stuff Frolov! Can't believe you made me remember of Jean-Francois Bernard! :handclap:
And if tonight you say that France was very weak, I swear I will not argue! ;)

I suggest some changes:

Barthez
Thuram-Desailly-Gallas-Lizarazu
Pires-Makelele-Vieira-Rothen
Zidane
Henry
Another option (4-4-2 with diamond):

-----------------Barthez--------------------
--Thuram---Desailly---Gallas---Lizarazu---
------------------Vieira---------------------
---Pires----------Zidane---------Rothen---
----------Trezeguet-----Henry-------------

The Swiss could have gotten a draw with a bit of luck. Even though I would say the red card was acceptable this time. But on the other hand, what did you guys think of Rooney on Stiel? IMO that could've been a red one as well, and that would have meant a whole different game!
That's how I saw it too, but of course I'm biased. But to be honest, it's already a success that we could participate at that tournament, so it didn't exactly ruin my day. But I'm not impressed with England either, they did not show that they can dominate an opponent offensively.

Another option (4-4-2 with diamond):

-----------------Barthez--------------------
--Thuram---Desailly---Gallas---Lizarazu---
------------------Vieira---------------------
---Pires----------Zidane---------Rothen---
----------Trezeguet-----Henry-------------

I am happy that you maintain Rothen in your interesting line up. I think he would be a great addition: he crosses very well, works hard when defending and runs at defender. He would provide more balance on the left side as right now Zidane is going a bit everywhere he wants, leaving Silvestre all by himself. So Silvestre can't attack and the left side isn't much used in attack.

Great stuff Frolov! Can't believe you made me remember of Jean-Francois Bernard! :handclap:
And if tonight you say that France was very weak, I swear I will not argue! ;)

Jeff Bernard :thumbu: My former hero.

That's how I saw it too, but of course I'm biased. But to be honest, it's already a success that we could participate at that tournament, so it didn't exactly ruin my day. But I'm not impressed with England either, they did not show that they can dominate an opponent offensively.

You remember our conservation about unser Bernd, just for the start of the tournament ? You hoped his play would improve but I'm not sold yet. :)

You remember our conservation about unser Bernd, just for the start of the tournament ? You hoped his play would improve but I'm not sold yet. :)
Note that I hoped, but I did not predict.

Note that I hoped, but I did not predict.

Correct and that was a good move !

Correct and that was a good move !
Well, considering that I did not get any points today that's at least something ;)

Well well, France officially sucks.
Seems to me they're closer to WC 02 than Euro 00 right now.
No energy, no creativity (though the croatians made it difficult by fouling in midfield every time France had some space).
Trezeguet has been awful as usual (recently I mean), and Henry has been average at best.

Not shocked by the French, espically after the World Cup. 1 goal in the World Cup for the defending champs? BAH!

What happened to France in the past 6 years?

Another option (4-4-2 with diamond):

-----------------Barthez--------------------
--Thuram---Desailly---Gallas---Lizarazu---
------------------Vieira---------------------
---Pires----------Zidane---------Rothen---
----------Trezeguet-----Henry-------------
That's the way I see it too.

What happened to France in the past 6 years?
They've won Euro 2000 with some amazing football.

England were poor definitely no defence of the way we played. Rooney,Gerrard,Cole were ok that was about it. We as a team just cant adapt to the heat happened in Japan and it happened in that game. Its just a result we wont be playing anymore games at 6pm.The remaining games are all at 8.45pm which will be cooler. John Terry didnt look match fit and struggled think his lack of pace is a concern. Gerrard and Lampard are struggling to dominate other midfields.Beckham needs to liven up as does scholes. Owen is not getting any service but his 1st touch is horrible. Rooney is our 1 shining light. David James has always been awful and its not a suprise there is not alot of confidence in defence when you have a joke for a goalkeeper who wont come a yard of his line to claim a cross. :help:

Positive is we got the result we needed,positive is we can come second by just drawing.Positive is if greece win against russia it looks like we will play them in the quarter final.PLEASE GOD THAT WOULD BE VERY NICE! :handclap:

P.S We cant play much worse than that surely!

I've just read somewhere that Silvestre was the one responsible for the penalty AGAIN.

Before blasting him once more, I'd like to know if it was a deserved penalty...
Anyone can help?
maybe Silvestre was a bit ingenuous on the play, but imo it was not a deserved penalty.

Trézéguet's goal, difficult to say something about it. It was a clear handball, but there's no way that was intentional, as he coulnd't react on that short notice. I think it was a valid goal.
C'mooooonnnn!!!!! :bonk: It was a solar handball foul!
I agree with Riddarn and Sanderson.
The arm was wide and intentionally wide even if before the kick by the goalkeeper..
you said it was unintentional? Then it would have been a foul anyway.

Anyway it compensated for the 'penalty' earlier.

Agree on that penalty (even if a penalty has then to be put in the net)

England were poor definitely no defence of the way we played. Rooney,Gerrard,Cole were ok that was about it. We as a team just cant adapt to the heat happened in Japan and it happened in that game. Its just a result we wont be playing anymore games at 6pm.The remaining games are all at 8.45pm which will be cooler. John Terry didnt look match fit and struggled think his lack of pace is a concern. Gerrard and Lampard are struggling to dominate other midfields.Beckham needs to liven up as does scholes. Owen is not getting any service but his 1st touch is horrible. Rooney is our 1 shining light. David James has always been awful and its not a suprise there is not alot of confidence in defence when you have a joke for a goalkeeper who wont come a yard of his line to claim a cross. :help:

Positive is we got the result we needed,positive is we can come second by just drawing.Positive is if greece win against russia it looks like we will play them in the quarter final.PLEASE GOD THAT WOULD BE VERY NICE! :handclap:

P.S We cant play much worse than that surely!

agreed..get the hell out of the goal, james :banghead:

Beckham needs to liven up as does scholes.

I agree wholeheartedly. Nonetheless Croatia is going to wish they had nothing to do with the tourney this year after we steamroll them on Monday. :)