Hale or Carkner?

Discuss.

I prefer Hale. In my honest opinion he looks much more solid then Carkner, and he's great with Karlsson.

Carkner.
He is our most nastiest D we have and can stick up for his teammate. we need another like him.

Havent noticed Hale as much as I've noticed Carkner.

Hale hands down, Carkner gets noticed for all the wrong reasons: too slow, bad pinches and horrible timing to fight.

Carkner is a more valuable player to The Sens than Hale. He fills a need that no one else does, blocks shots, hits, and is on the PK. Perfect number 6 D man, awful number 4.

I love Carkner's toughness but I have to say Hale. His overall play is much better than Carkner's.

I love Carkner's toughness but I have to say Hale. His overall play is much better than Carkner's.

I would love to see Hale playing in a top 4 role and Carkner on the bottom pair. I wonder what some comments would look like then?

Unfair to hang Carkner for being forced to play out of his eliment. Hale has been very solid and is doing his job with all that said but I would still take Carkner for a number of reasons.

don't care as long as they are not on the same pairing

Put them on the trade market and see which one is more valuable.

Carkner and it's not even close.

Carkner and it's not even close.

Ditto

Never underestimate the value of a heavyweight who can actually play. Just play him in his role. Carkner makes Neil that much more effective, as well.

Interesting timing of the thread considering Neil just went down with an injury.

Carkner, unequivocally.

Carkner but it wouldn't hurt to let Matt sit a game or 2

Carkner; he brings a heavyweight presence who can also play the game.
They are pretty similar players though.

Carkner and it's not even close.
:nod:

need carkner in there to fight neils battles ofcourse

Carkner

Carkner and it's not close. They're similar players, except that Carkner is much tougher and is a legit heavyweight. Why would I want the car with less options?

Only possible positive for Hale is that as a lefty, he might make a better #7 than Carkner because he may be more adaptable to his opposite side. Then again, Carkner can play forward and I'm not sure Hale does.

Anyone else noticing the recent open ice hits & attempts by Carkner? ... He doesn't look very good at it now, but if he starts getting the timing down on more of those --> :hit: He's gonna wreck some people!

Carkner in a landslide. Besides Carkner is still leaning the NHL and will get better whereas I think Hale has capped out, regardless of ages.

Is this actually a thread?

The two aren't even comparable. Hale is 7/8 and Carkner has worked himself into the top 4.

hale has played well and we are lucky to have him in the organization, but we can't get carried away with this stretch of good play. there's a reason he's bounced around and has had trouble sticking. hale is a PERFECT no.7 depth defenceman. he can step in there in case of injury and give you 15-18 minutes and do some nice things and be steady, not spectacular. but if we are thinking he can be a regular and be in our top 4, we're deluding ourselves. if a david hale is in your top 4 you arent a very good hockey team.

as for carkner, i thought he played HORRIBLY the first two games, but since then he has been very steady and he's played very well. he's found his niche as a legit bottom-pair NHL defenceman. he's very big, he's physical, he can fight, kill penalties, and play solid defensively. he's just fine on a bottom pairing.

that being said, if cowen and/or rundblad show up here next year and its clear they are ready to play, you have to think we'll be moving carkner.

I'd like to try one game with hale instead of Carkner.

Kuba-Gonchar
Campoli-Phillips
Hale-Karlsson

Is this actually a thread?

The two aren't even comparable. Hale is 7/8 and Carkner has worked himself into the top 4.

Carkner in the top four is a joke, sincerely. The only reason he got any minutes in the top four was Kuba's injury and Karlsson and Lee's early struggles.

Hale is the better player of the two, but Carkner gets the advantage because his presence makes other teams think a little about taking too many liberties. However it is interesting that Campoli seems to be the guy ready to jump in frequently.

Carkner isn't the physical presence some people think, he is just too slow to make solid checks on rushing forwards, so they don't fear him at all. While he does do an adequate job on the penalty kill, 5 on 5 it appears he is trying to do too much with a limited skill set. He will never be more than what he is, so he needs to simplify his game, and play the 5/6 role like he did last year for him to have much value.

While Carkner can fight, IMO he has not shown he knows when to do so. After the LA game, Murray/Clouston might be wondering the same thing. It was Neil who stepped up and ignited them, where is Carkner when the team needs that boost??

Carkner is a really nice story, but a guy that needs to remember what he is and get back to the game that got him to the NHL. A few games watching might do him good.

I'd like to try one game with hale instead of Carkner.

Kuba-Gonchar
Campoli-Phillips
Hale-Karlsson

Agree.

Carkner in the top four is a joke, sincerely. The only reason he got any minutes in the top four was Kuba's injury and Karlsson and Lee's early struggles.

Hale is the better player of the two, but Carkner gets the advantage because his presence makes other teams think a little about taking too many liberties. However it is interesting that Campoli seems to be the guy ready to jump in frequently.

Carkner isn't the physical presence some people think, he is just too slow to make solid checks on rushing forwards, so they don't fear him at all. While he does do an adequate job on the penalty kill, 5 on 5 it appears he is trying to do too much with a limited skill set. He will never be more than what he is, so he needs to simplify his game, and play the 5/6 role like he did last year for him to have much value.

While Carkner can fight, IMO he has not shown he knows when to do so. After the LA game, Murray/Clouston might be wondering the same thing. It was Neil who stepped up and ignited them, where is Carkner when the team needs that boost??

Carkner is a really nice story, but a guy that needs to remember what he is and get back to the game that got him to the NHL. A few games watching might do him good.

More to physicality then open ice hits. He is our only 'dirty' D-man who actually roughs up people who hang in front of the net. He uses his body to win puck battles along the boards better than any other D we have. Agreed his hitting isn't what I hoped from a guy his size and demeanor.

Hale?? Really? Hale??

Carkner in the top four is a joke, sincerely. The only reason he got any minutes in the top four was Kuba's injury and Karlsson and Lee's early struggles.

Hale is the better player of the two, but Carkner gets the advantage because his presence makes other teams think a little about taking too many liberties. However it is interesting that Campoli seems to be the guy ready to jump in frequently.

Carkner isn't the physical presence some people think, he is just too slow to make solid checks on rushing forwards, so they don't fear him at all. While he does do an adequate job on the penalty kill, 5 on 5 it appears he is trying to do too much with a limited skill set. He will never be more than what he is, so he needs to simplify his game, and play the 5/6 role like he did last year for him to have much value.

While Carkner can fight, IMO he has not shown he knows when to do so. After the LA game, Murray/Clouston might be wondering the same thing. It was Neil who stepped up and ignited them, where is Carkner when the team needs that boost??

Carkner is a really nice story, but a guy that needs to remember what he is and get back to the game that got him to the NHL. A few games watching might do him good.

I could not disagree with you more. The facts also disagree with you.
First, well, since he's paired with Chris Phillips now, I think it's safe to say that Carkner is in the top 4.
BTW, that happened AFTER Kuba came back from injury.
And you suggest sitting Carkner???!!! Did you seriously type that?
He leads THE ENTIRE TEAM in +/- and averages 17-18 minutes a night. :shakehead

I could not disagree with you more. The facts also disagree with you.
First, well, since he's paired with Chris Phillips now, I think it's safe to say that Carkner is in the top 4.
BTW, that happened AFTER Kuba came back from injury.
And you suggest sitting Carkner???!!! Did you seriously type that?
He leads THE ENTIRE TEAM in +/- and averages 17-18 minutes a night. :shakehead

I am well aware that Clouston changed the pairings for LA, but from my recollection of the game, they looked terrible until the Neil scrap.

If you think he is top 4, so be it, but if he plays consistently in the top 4 for Ottawa, there will be no playoffs this year.

Plus/minus is BS, ****ing Tom Preissing was the +/- leader when he was here, where is he now????

Ha, shows what I know.

Carkner is a healthy scratch today.

WTF is Clouston doing? In the past week he has sat Karlsson and now Carkner. He has switched lines about 12 times and seems to be in full blown panic mode as coach. At what point do we start to look at Clouston?
I fear that he is going to alienate the players pretty soon.

What a cop out. Clouston saying Carkner has struggled the last few games is just BS. He's the only D-man that has done his job consistently this season. They are a soft blueline when he plays. What are they when he doesn't?

Wouldn't it be nice if the Pens run around and we can't do anything about it? Great coaching Clousteau.

Carkner,

This shouldn't be a thread.

The question should be. Who is more important to the team?
And the answer is Carkner

If Carkner is out of the lineup, and Neil is injuring a sore hand then lol at our team toughness. Bottom of the league in hits, and a small non-physical defense. This should be a fun one, especially if the game gets out of hand.

Ha, shows what I know.

Carkner is a healthy scratch today.

WTF is Clouston doing? In the past week he has sat Karlsson and now Carkner. He has switched lines about 12 times and seems to be in full blown panic mode as coach.

That's accountability :sarcasm:

Carkner is tough, but he hasn't be good. He frequently gets caught up ice and doesn't have the speed to recover. Also getting undressed twice last game didn't help his cause...

Carkner is tough, but he hasn't be good. He frequently gets caught up ice and doesn't have the speed to recover. Also getting undressed twice last game didn't help his cause...

THIS

Its ok too like Carkner, but he was bad against LA, and a revolving door against Dallas. For those of you that think that Ottawa can't do without him, have a look at Montreal. Or if you prefer look at the 100 point teams of the Sens under Martin, what it is called is discipline, something Ottawa has lacked under Clouston.