After stating he wanted to represent Russia internationally CSKA goaltender Sergei Gaiduchenko seems to be thinking of playing for Ukraine.

http://hcsokol.kiev.ua/article_7477.html (Russian)

http://translate.google.ca/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fhcsokol.kiev.ua%2Farticle_7477.html

"In the coming days I will call my agent and make a decision. I know that the championship will be held in April in Kiev, and in front of the Ukrainian team faces a serious challenge to return to the elite," - Gayduchenko

This might be the best development for the Ukrainian national team for a long time if he does decide to play. A good young goaltender who can start for the national team for the foreseeable future.

I guess it would be a nice start, but rebuilding the Ukrainian hockey programme is going to take a lot more than just a goaltender.

Most of their national team consists of players born in the 1970s and at the Worlds last year they only had one player younger than 27.
The few decent talents they still produce just go down the same route as the generations before them and play for Russia.

I guess it would be a nice start, but rebuilding the Ukrainian hockey programme is going to take a lot more than just a goaltender.

Most of their national team consists of players born in the 1970s and at the Worlds last year they only had one player younger than 27.
The few decent talents they still produce just go down the same route as the generations before them and play for Russia.

Got to start somewhere, getting a young goaltender to commit can help start rebuilding that program. Kiev also might have a KHL team next year, so that would turn that program around in a hurry I think. There are plenty of hockey players born in Kiev, if they had a professional set up in their own city more young players would play for Ukraine

It would be nice for Ukraine, but seriously they need more guys than just Gaiduchenko. They need Fedotenko and Ponikarovsky to come and play as well as Alexei Mikhnov, Zherdev, Razin, Babchuk, etc. They could actually be on par with teams like Belarus and Latvia if these guys played, but until they do Ukraine will be in D1. I remember hearing something about Zherdev and Babchuk considering playing for Ukraine, which would be nice. Any truth to that?

Any truth to that?

Shortly - no.

I remember hearing something about Zherdev and Babchuk considering playing for Ukraine, which would be nice. Any truth to that?

I am not clear on the rules for switching nationality but for Zherdev and Babchuk it is next to impossible to do so since they have played official competitions for Russia. Babchuk has only played in the u18’s so perhaps there is some leeway for him, but Zherdev played in the world championships so I think he has a 0% chance to play for Ukraine. It is sad because many players who choose to play for Russia end up being secondary or depth guys for the Russian team, they would be leading stars for Ukraine. Without a professional set up however, Ukraine will always lose players to Russia.

From what I have read the Ukrainian Federation’s short term plans is to get a team in the KHL, get citizenship for some players and get those players to bolster the Ukrainian National team in the short term. Long term with a professional set up there isn’t much for Ukraine to do, while most players on the Ukrainian National team now were all born in the 1970’s, if you look at players who were born in just in Kiev, there is a steady stream of good players from that city yearly. I think a KHL team with a good youth set up could turn Ukraine around in 5 years

Pure fantasy, but if you were to get all players born in Ukraine I believe Ukraine would be better than Latvia

I am not clear on the rules for switching nationality but for Zherdev and Babchuk it is next to impossible to do so since they have played official competitions for Russia. Babchuk has only played in the u18’s so perhaps there is some leeway for him, but Zherdev played in the world championships so I think he has a 0% chance to play for Ukraine. It is sad because many players who choose to play for Russia end up being secondary or depth guys for the Russian team, they would be leading stars for Ukraine. Without a professional set up however, Ukraine will always lose players to Russia.

From what I have read the Ukrainian Federation’s short term plans is to get a team in the KHL, get citizenship for some players and get those players to bolster the Ukrainian National team in the short term. Long term with a professional set up there isn’t much for Ukraine to do, while most players on the Ukrainian National team now were all born in the 1970’s, if you look at players who were born in just in Kiev, there is a steady stream of good players from that city yearly. I think a KHL team with a good youth set up could turn Ukraine around in 5 years

Pure fantasy, but if you were to get all players born in Ukraine I believe Ukraine would be better than Latvia

Well, Babchuk did represent Russia at the U-18s but I really don't see that being a problem since it was so long ago. I know that Nabokov represented Kazakhstan in 1994, but has since represented Russia in a number of tournaments. And let's not forget about Peter Stastny who represented Czechoslovakia, Slovakia and Canada in his career. I'm not sure about how long the wait time is between representing countries, but I believe it is something like 4-5 years.

I also agree that Ukraine would be better than Latvia. Hell, I think they could actually be a competitive nation if they had all of their countrymen play for them instead of Russia. Ponikarovsky, Fedotenko, Zherdev, Babchuk, Gaiduchenko, Mikhnov, etc are better than what a lot of the top 15 countries have. It's unfortunate that these guys don't all play for them because it could make a huge difference for Ukrainian hockey.

Well, Babchuk did represent Russia at the U-18s but I really don't see that being a problem since it was so long ago. I know that Nabokov represented Kazakhstan in 1994, but has since represented Russia in a number of tournaments. And let's not forget about Peter Stastny who represented Czechoslovakia, Slovakia and Canada in his career. I'm not sure about how long the wait time is between representing countries, but I believe it is something like 4-5 years.

The players you named all had extenuating circumstances as to why they were allowed to switch nations. Nabokov stated he was forced to play for Kazakhstan and didn’t have a choice in that period of time. The IIHF heard his case and agreed with him so he was allowed to play for Russia. Stastny had the unique situation of defecting, so he wasn’t allowed to play for Czechoslovakia. He did play for Canada in the 84 Canada Cup, but that is a non IIHF event so the rules of who can play for who are less strict. Dainius Zubrus played for Russia at the 2004 World Cup of Hockey (Non IIHF), but played for Lithuania just a few months later in the World Championships. In the case of players from Ukraine they had a choice, I am sure these Russian clubs influenced them to play for Russia but at the end of the day they were free to make their decision.

I also agree that Ukraine would be better than Latvia. Hell, I think they could actually be a competitive nation if they had all of their countrymen play for them instead of Russia. Ponikarovsky, Fedotenko, Zherdev, Babchuk, Gaiduchenko, Mikhnov, etc are better than what a lot of the top 15 countries have. It's unfortunate that these guys don't all play for them because it could make a huge difference for Ukrainian hockey.

Also guys like Tverdovsky, Vishnevskiy are solid KHL defenders from Ukraine. Ukraine doesn't have any problems getting kids interested and playing hockey as evidenced by the number of players who come from there. They lack professional clubs and elite level development in their own country to keep kids with their program. Getting a professional club in the KHL could turn Ukraine’s program around in a few short years in my opinion.

The players you named all had extenuating circumstances as to why they were allowed to switch nations. Nabokov stated he was forced to play for Kazakhstan and didn’t have a choice in that period of time. The IIHF heard his case and agreed with him so he was allowed to play for Russia. Stastny had the unique situation of defecting, so he wasn’t allowed to play for Czechoslovakia. He did play for Canada in the 84 Canada Cup, but that is a non IIHF event so the rules of who can play for who are less strict. Dainius Zubrus played for Russia at the 2004 World Cup of Hockey (Non IIHF), but played for Lithuania just a few months later in the World Championships. In the case of players from Ukraine they had a choice, I am sure these Russian clubs influenced them to play for Russia but at the end of the day they were free to make their decision.



Also guys like Tverdovsky, Vishnevskiy are solid KHL defenders from Ukraine. Ukraine doesn't have any problems getting kids interested and playing hockey as evidenced by the number of players who come from there. They lack professional clubs and elite level development in their own country to keep kids with their program. Getting a professional club in the KHL could turn Ukraine’s program around in a few short years in my opinion.

I agree, HC Budivelnyk will be great for Ukraine's development of hockey. IMO the KHL should expand operations to Ukraine, Lithuania, Poland and maybe even Japan in the next 5-10 years. Eliminate some of the Moscow based teams and expand the league to help develop more talent from non-traditional and failing hockey markets. I think this would be great for hockey as a whole and may even help with International teams. Poland and Ukraine have both been fairly strong at one point and could be again if the KHL expanded farther outside of Russia.

Lol, who to play for Lithuania and Poland? I like the concept, but both nations don't have players to play in the KHL.

Lol, who to play for Lithuania and Poland? I like the concept, but both nations don't have players to play in the KHL.

At first you'd need to surround a few of their "top" native players with quality foreign nationals (Canadians, Americans, Russians, Swedes, etc.) and in time they would have players that would develop into KHLers. Maybe Zubrus comes back for the Lithuanian team in a couple years to help too. It would take some time, but neither market is incapable of producing at least a few KHL calibre players at this time. There must be at least a couple guys from each country that could play bottom 6 minutes in the KHL.

This is really the only way that I think hockey can grow in these markets. It would be nice to see them produce some good KHL calibre players and maybe even a couple NHLers too. Historically Poland has been a solid hockey producing nation, but in recent years they have really lagged behind in development. They could definately return to their previous level though if they implemented a new development program.

At first you'd need to surround a few of their "top" native players with quality foreign nationals (Canadians, Americans, Russians, Swedes, etc.) and in time they would have players that would develop into KHLers. Maybe Zubrus comes back for the Lithuanian team in a couple years to help too. It would take some time, but neither market is incapable of producing at least a few KHL calibre players at this time. There must be at least a couple guys from each country that could play bottom 6 minutes in the KHL.

This is really the only way that I think hockey can grow in these markets. It would be nice to see them produce some good KHL calibre players and maybe even a couple NHLers too. Historically Poland has been a solid hockey producing nation, but in recent years they have really lagged behind in development. They could definately return to their previous level though if they implemented a new development program.

As for Poland and Lithuania, I think perhaps an MHL team would make more sense for these nations. It would probably be a good first step for Ukraine as well

It would be nice for Ukraine, but seriously they need more guys than just Gaiduchenko. They need Fedotenko and Ponikarovsky to come and play as well as Alexei Mikhnov, Zherdev, Razin, Babchuk, etc. They could actually be on par with teams like Belarus and Latvia if these guys played, but until they do Ukraine will be in D1. I remember hearing something about Zherdev and Babchuk considering playing for Ukraine, which would be nice. Any truth to that?

if they make Budivelnyk next year, or buy out the Sokil Kyiv team/naming rights then it could be a possibility to see these guys come home

it may be a post-NHL destination for guys like Ponikarovsky/Fedotenko, and Babchuk/Zherdev if/when they leave the NHL again

the guys who have defected, if they sign and play in Kiev in the KHL for 2 years they could be eligible to switch back (right?)

keeping Danylo Sobchenko would have been a major coup though, he's doing great this WJC

I am not clear on the rules for switching nationality but for Zherdev and Babchuk it is next to impossible to do so since they have played official competitions for Russia. Babchuk has only played in the u18’s so perhaps there is some leeway for him, but Zherdev played in the world championships so I think he has a 0% chance to play for Ukraine. It is sad because many players who choose to play for Russia end up being secondary or depth guys for the Russian team, they would be leading stars for Ukraine. Without a professional set up however, Ukraine will always lose players to Russia.

From what I have read the Ukrainian Federation’s short term plans is to get a team in the KHL, get citizenship for some players and get those players to bolster the Ukrainian National team in the short term. Long term with a professional set up there isn’t much for Ukraine to do, while most players on the Ukrainian National team now were all born in the 1970’s, if you look at players who were born in just in Kiev, there is a steady stream of good players from that city yearly. I think a KHL team with a good youth set up could turn Ukraine around in 5 years

Pure fantasy, but if you were to get all players born in Ukraine I believe Ukraine would be better than Latvia


true

but look at the U18 numbers, Ukraine got totally destroyed this year, and by non-hockey nations like Japan and Britain

not a good sign of things to come...

As for Poland and Lithuania, I think perhaps an MHL team would make more sense for these nations. It would probably be a good first step for Ukraine as well

yeah

it would be cool to have MHL stars like Max Kvitchenko playing in Kiev, or guys like Zemchenko/Sobchenko as well

Maybe Zubrus comes back for the Lithuanian team in a couple years to help too.

just a fun fact, but Zubrus nearly played for team Ukraine at one point, since he played in Ukraine from 1989-1995

he entertained the idea of playing for Ukraine, but ultimately decided his home country needed him

it would be cool to have MHL stars like Max Kvitchenko playing in Kiev, or guys like Zemchenko/Sobchenko as well

Not only that if there was elite youth developement in Ukraine means there is less of a chance players defect, that would be more important IMO

Not only that if there was elite youth developement in Ukraine means there is less of a chance players defect, that would be more important IMO

yeah, right now the 2 roads to playing at a higher level are going from amateur straight to semi-pro with Sokil, or defecting to the MHL

have an MHL option that doesn't force players to obtain Russian passports (what a crooked business that is) and all of a sudden those U18 and U20 teams don't look quit as pathetic

It starts with a KHL team in Kyiv, then anything can happen. Development, attention, it would all be good for Ukrainian hockey.

As mentioned previously the national team is filled with players 30 and up who were once good to enough to hang around in the World Championships, but that is not longer the case.

Alot of what you people say is true but you should realize that not all players born in Kiev are Ukrainians. You should know that after the break up of the Soviet Union there were alot of Russians in other states left and vice-versa. I personally know someone in that situation.

Many of these 'Ukrainians' consider themselves Russians and are proud to play for team Russia.
Furthermore, many of these people live in Russia from a very young age, and finished the entire youth school of a Russian hockey club. Why would such a person all of the sudden go to play in/for Ukraine.

I dont want to start an argument, as legitimately there also are Ukranians who leave purely for career purposes. I dont think this is a vast majority and strongly disagree with the way you negatively talk about 'poaching' and such.

Alot of what you people say is true but you should realize that not all players born in Kiev are Ukrainians. You should know that after the break up of the Soviet Union there were alot of Russians in other states left and vice-versa. I personally know someone in that situation.

Many of these 'Ukrainians' consider themselves Russians and are proud to play for team Russia.
Furthermore, many of these people live in Russia from a very young age, and finished the entire youth school of a Russian hockey club. Why would such a person all of the sudden go to play in/for Ukraine.

I dont want to start an argument, as legitimately there also are Ukranians who leave purely for career purposes. I dont think this is a vast majority and strongly disagree with the way you negatively talk about 'poaching' and such.

who are you referring to? it seems a vague argument on your part

Rarely are there cases of ethnic Russians being born in Kiev, never playing hockey in Ukraine, and moving to Russia for reasons other than hockey career advancement. I can't even think of an example.

Alot of what you people say is true but you should realize that not all players born in Kiev are Ukrainians. You should know that after the break up of the Soviet Union there were alot of Russians in other states left and vice-versa. I personally know someone in that situation.

Many of these 'Ukrainians' consider themselves Russians and are proud to play for team Russia.
Furthermore, many of these people live in Russia from a very young age, and finished the entire youth school of a Russian hockey club. Why would such a person all of the sudden go to play in/for Ukraine.

I dont want to start an argument, as legitimately there also are Ukranians who leave purely for career purposes. I dont think this is a vast majority and strongly disagree with the way you negatively talk about 'poaching' and such.

Players will still defect however, take the example of Kazakhstan; Nabokov switched to Russia because he is an ethnic Russian (he did however have a difficult time switching). Then you have Nik Antropov, an ethnic Russian who plays for Kazakhstan. He developed at Torpedo Ust-Kamenogorsk and still plays for their national team. Plenty of ethnic Russians play for Kazakhstan and some that don’t. If you look at some of the bigger name players that don’t; Perezhogin, Vorobiev, and Khudobin, they all developed and played youth hockey in Russia.

The point is Ukraine has about a 0% chance to keep any elite players be it ethnic Russians or Ukrainians without a professional set up, professional opportunities and elite youth development. If you can develop elite players in your own nation 90% of the time they will play for that nation.

EDIT: I just noticed the Sokol Kiev site is dead/down hockey really is in trouble ;) haha

EDIT2: Quick question, has there ever been a professional player playing at a high level from West Ukraine? I can't think of one off the top of my head

EDIT2: Quick question, has there ever been a professional player playing at a high level from West Ukraine? I can't think of one off the top of my head

Never. Closest is Peter Bonda, who was born in Lutsk, but he's a Slovakian anchor baby if you will (though I've seen it argued that he's Rusyn, ipso facto Ukrainian; but he never played in Ukraine so the point is moot)

who are you referring to? it seems a vague argument on your part

Rarely are there cases of ethnic Russians being born in Kiev, never playing hockey in Ukraine, and moving to Russia for reasons other than hockey career advancement. I can't even think of an example.

Im not familiar with Ukrainian hockey, and am not referring to anyone in specific. Just pointing out the fact that its not like Russia steals them away and forces them to convert, as it almost sounds like in some of your posts.

Im sure that alot of ethnic Russians that start out playing in Kiev, just as they do in the US and Sweden...
Also there are plenty of ethnic Russians that moved back to Russia after the breakup of the SU, for reasons completely unrelated to hockey.

And either way, for example if a kid moves to Canada at an early age, gets a passport, lives like a Canadian, and gets a chance to play for the national team, wouldnt that make sense? Or in your case he should refuse and go back to his country of origin just because he was born there?
The case of Ukrainians in Russia is not much different.

Players will still defect however, take the example of Kazakhstan; Nabokov switched to Russia because he is an ethnic Russian (he did however have a difficult time switching). Then you have Nik Antropov, an ethnic Russian who plays for Kazakhstan. He developed at Torpedo Ust-Kamenogorsk and still plays for their national team. Plenty of ethnic Russians play for Kazakhstan and some that don’t. If you look at some of the bigger name players that don’t; Perezhogin, Vorobiev, and Khudobin, they all developed and played youth hockey in Russia.

The point is Ukraine has about a 0% chance to keep any elite players be it ethnic Russians or Ukrainians without a professional set up, professional opportunities and elite youth development. If you can develop elite players in your own nation 90% of the time they will play for that nation.



I completely agree

I completely agree

I think what you will see are ethnic Russians with a strong ethnic identification to Russia move back to play youth hockey for a chance to get their citizenship, play for Russia, and live in Russia in the future. Ethnic Russians who do not feel so strongly or have personal or economic reasons to stay in Ukraine will play for Ukraine.

Many Ukrainian born players end up developing in smaller Russian clubs, I guess the rational is smaller clubs need to search for talent and big clubs have talent that wants to play for them. Sometimes quality of life might count too. I have been to Ukraine but not to Russia, I imagine that living in Kiev is better than living in Yaroslavl or Elektrostal (I personally don’t know).

Im not familiar with Ukrainian hockey, and am not referring to anyone in specific. Just pointing out the fact that its not like Russia steals them away and forces them to convert, as it almost sounds like in some of your posts.


They do steal them. They are forced to apply for Russian passports in order to play hockey in Russia. No other country in the IIHF enforces such a policy. It's straight up poaching.



And either way, for example if a kid moves to Canada at an early age, gets a passport, lives like a Canadian, and gets a chance to play for the national team, wouldnt that make sense? Or in your case he should refuse and go back to his country of origin just because he was born there?
The case of Ukrainians in Russia is not much different.

Well many said Wolski should have played for Poland...but he never actually played hockey in Poland. The instances we are referring to here, these kids learned how to play hockey in Ukraine and usually move to Russia at age 14-15, once they have been scouted.

A more accurate example would be that of American players who cross the border to play in the CHL in their junior years and get drafted - they aren't made to apply for Canadian citizenship, play for Team Canada, etc.

They do steal them. They are forced to apply for Russian passports in order to play hockey in Russia. No other country in the IIHF enforces such a policy. It's straight up poaching.



Could you give us some links to back up your claims because I don't think you are right (though I could be wrong myself). Ukrainians are forced to obtain Russian passport in order to avoid being classified as foreigners in Russia(KHL) and if they want to play for Russian clubs they have to be either so good that clubs are willing to use a foreigner roster spot on them or become Russian citizens. I simply refuse to believe there is rule which force Ukrainians become Russians as soon they cross the border.

They do steal them. They are forced to apply for Russian passports in order to play hockey in Russia. No other country in the IIHF enforces such a policy. It's straight up poaching.


I remember hearing that this was the case at one point, but I don't think it is anymore. I think many Ukrainians, as ozo said, apply for a Russian passport because it makes it easier for their development. I honestly think that when Ukraine gets a KHL team we will start to see a resurgence in their hockey program. They have a very large population and could definately still field a good national team if their best players weren't playing in Russia. HC Budivelnyk should keep all of their talent from defecting to Russia and will allow some ethnic Ukrainians to return and play for Ukraine internationally.

I like what the KHL is doing for hockey in Eastern Europe (although I hate that some NHL calibur players choose to player there :P). I hope that we will see the development in countries like Kazakhstan, Belarus, Latvia and Ukraine improve and see stronger international competition.

Speaking of hockey development in Ukraine, in the 100th anniversary of hockey in Ukraine it appears everything is going wrong.

http://hockey.sport.ua/news/114810 (Russian)
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&u=http://hockey.sport.ua/news/114810&rurl=translate.google.ca&usg=ALkJrhgA4MHrs-WcLKbUGdNtaogTkMR4Fg

Hockey players from the Falcon, which constitute the backbone of the Ukrainian team, wrote an open letter to the President of Ukraine Viktor Yanukovych, the Prime Minister Mykola Azarov, Minister of Family, Youth and Sports Ravil Safiullin, president of the Hockey Federation of Ukraine Anatoly Brezvinu to take measures to rescue the most titled country club – Sokol Kiev…

Today is the best club in the country is going through a difficult period in terms of financial viability…

We have to admit that now HC "Falcon" is on the verge of collapse…

If there isn’t a KHL team next year in Ukraine and Sokol cannot continue to play, Hockey will be dead in that country 2-3 years.

Speaking of hockey development in Ukraine, in the 100th anniversary of hockey in Ukraine it appears everything is going wrong.

http://hockey.sport.ua/news/114810 (Russian)
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&u=http://hockey.sport.ua/news/114810&rurl=translate.google.ca&usg=ALkJrhgA4MHrs-WcLKbUGdNtaogTkMR4Fg


If there isn’t a KHL team next year in Ukraine and Sokol cannot continue to play, Hockey will be dead in that country 2-3 years.

That's disappointing. Hopefully someone rescues the team and either Sokol or HC Budivelnyk joins the KHL.

they definately need FEMEN involved...after one of those displays, we'll see a KHL team for sure

they definately need FEMEN involved...after one of those displays, we'll see a KHL team for sure

Femen is really good at raising more than just awareness :laugh:

Could you give us some links to back up your claims because I don't think you are right (though I could be wrong myself). Ukrainians are forced to obtain Russian passport in order to avoid being classified as foreigners in Russia(KHL) and if they want to play for Russian clubs they have to be either so good that clubs are willing to use a foreigner roster spot on them or become Russian citizens. I simply refuse to believe there is rule which force Ukrainians become Russians as soon they cross the border.

well off the top of my head I remember Zherdev explaining this was the case when he went to play in Elektrostal originally, he HAD to get a Russian passport to play in Russia

perhaps you're right about the foreigner spot for V-League teams...are Russian teams allowed foreigners? If not then this would be a clever loop hole, "you're a foreigner and under league rules you can't play here, but if you accept one of our free passports you can now play here"

so i guess its either circumvention of league rules vs. something more sinister.

ponikarovsky and antropov both were given russian passports when they played for Dynamo...hmm..

Femen is really good at raising more than just awareness :laugh:

ding!

well off the top of my head I remember Zherdev explaining this was the case when he went to play in Elektrostal originally, he HAD to get a Russian passport to play in Russia

perhaps you're right about the foreigner spot for V-League teams...are Russian teams allowed foreigners? If not then this would be a clever loop hole, "you're a foreigner and under league rules you can't play here, but if you accept one of our free passports you can now play here"

so i guess its either circumvention of league rules vs. something more sinister.

ponikarovsky and antropov both were given russian passports when they played for Dynamo...hmm..

Both Ponikarovsky and Antropov represent their countries of birth though. Neither have ever represented Russia in International competition. I don't know if Poni will ever represent Ukraine in the future, but I'd be shocked if Antro wasn't playing for Kazakhstan next time they're up in the WC.

ponikarovsky and antropov both were given russian passports when they played for Dynamo...hmm..

In the case of Antropov, he played in Kazakhstan until he was 18 and then transferred to Dynamo. When a player transfers makes a huge difference, at 18 he would have went through the youth system of Kazakhstan making it harder to switch nations even with a Russian passport.

As for Ponikarovsky, I believe he came to Russia earlier and never played with any Ukrainian or Russian youth team. My guess is he would have been happy never to play internationally but because Ukraine made the Olympics in 2002 he thought why not everyone else is playing in the Olympics. He never had a chance for Russia at that time

"you're a foreigner and under league rules you can't play here, but if you accept one of our free passports you can now play here"

ponikarovsky and antropov both were given russian passports when they played for Dynamo...hmm..

I think you should take a step back and look at the bigger picture. I don't think Russian clubs needs Ukrainian players as much as Ukrainian players need Russian clubs. No one forces them to go eastwards where stricter foreigner policies exists which force them circumvent rules and obtain Russian passports. But playing in Russia is the simplest and sanest path for young Ukrainian players if they wish to pursue career in pro hockey. As sad as it is but they probably realize in how deep hole Ukrainian hockey and national team are and thus they don't feel they are missing out on Olympic games or other best-of-best tournaments.

Ponikarovsky's and Antropov's case proves how inconsistent Russian hockey has been with this foreigner rules. I've heard similiar things about Andrei Mezin. In most countries (for example Germany) if foreigner obtains a German passport he is no longer considered foreigner no matter what (in most cases they are Canadian players who aren't be considered candidates for NT spot). But in Russia they force potential player not only to obtain citizenship but to stop playing for your first country also in order to be considered a true local hockey player and unlike in my Germany's example this rule concerns closest neighbour countries such as Ukraine, Belarus and Kazakhstan and these countries feel the loss of every single occasion. Though the this rule hasn't been carried out with any real consistency over the years so there many cases like ones you mentioned where players have continued to be dual citizens and Nt players for their respective countries.

Sokil, I understand your pain and position completely, but I kinda understand the position of Russian hockey authorities too. They understand that it isn't very hard to obtain Russian citizenship and this process of gaining another passport is a circumvention of rules and is damaging their own hockey programme. There are many so called Russian citizens that haven't actually seen their Russian passport for once in their lifetime. What feels unfair from your side of things looks equally unfair from Russian point of view.

I hope that Kyiv will eventually get their KHL team as they could bring home many of these dual passport owners to their NT and if this team becomes a success story and it creates some hockey buzz in Ukraine after 20 years of being in coma. I don't know how devoted you are, but maybe if you understand Russian language you should research whether inception of KHL team in Astana have made some impact on their NT roster already and is there any case of dual citizen returning to Kazakh NT roster, in order to see if a potential franchise could have an immediate effect on Ukrainian hockey. As much as I would like to know that myself my hands are tied because my lack of Russian language.

It is surprising, and sad, that a country like Ukraine cannot "keep up" in the scheme of international hockey. Look at the 1995 World jr.... they beat the USA, and kept it close (4-2) loss to Russia, and I remember that small goaltender Karpenko that suited up for them.... Plus, having guys like Fedotenko, Ponikarovksy, etc in the NHL. I do have no clue about the politics, etc. of hockey over there. As a Canadian with Ukrainian heritage - I would like to see Ukraine brought back up into the ranks. A midget minor travel team from Kiev was here at Christmas time for a tournament, and made it to the semi finals in their division. (Nik Antropov won MVP of this tournament for the Khazakhstan team that he played on as a midget or bantam back in the '90s).

Are there a lot rinks in Ukraine? I am thinking hockey is second to soccer in terms being the sport to play.... am I right?

Also - how do I go about getting a team Ukraine hockey jersey (current one on the iihf site?), or even a Ukraine track jacket (like they had in the Vancouver olympic games - I think the one figure skater was wearing one getting her marks). I have emailed their hockey federation via the IIHF, and never got a response. I have a contact on another hockey site trying to look into a jersey, but if anyone here might be able to help me, please msg me.

Are there a lot rinks in Ukraine? I am thinking hockey is second to soccer in terms being the sport to play.... am I right?

No. We don't have enough rinks. Moreover, we don't even have a single good modern arena where Sokol could play. Last time I heard they played in a small rink in the suburbs. There were some reports about possible changes to this situation though...

As for popularity... More people definitely play basketball. Maybe even volleyball. Tough to say, I'm from the South and hardly anyone plays hockey there.

Still, I get the feeling that hockey is not enough popular in Ukraine but obviously things may change

Got to start somewhere, getting a young goaltender to commit can help start rebuilding that program. Kiev also might have a KHL team next year, so that would turn that program around in a hurry I think. There are plenty of hockey players born in Kiev, if they had a professional set up in their own city more young players would play for Ukraine

You just have a too optimistic view of things.

I live in Kiev and is actually a product of Sokol youth system.

Sokol doesn't have its own rink nor the sport of ice-hockey is being fed money like for example football is.

There are indeed plenty of hockey players born in Kiev, but they choose Russia - that's where the money, fame at the international level, and development as a player to be had.

I see a total collapse of ukrainian youth hockey system within 3-5 years, because neither money nor intention or desire is being put into it.
The talented 16 year olds travel to Canada or Russia if they want to pursue their careers in hockey. This place is like a dead land for them.

A friend of mine is sending his kid to try in the minors in Canada - if you want serious hockey development, you go where the system exists. In Ukraine they can teach you how to skate, fall, stick-handle but that's about it.
How to stay competitive is learnt in Canada and Russia.

who are you referring to? it seems a vague argument on your part

Rarely are there cases of ethnic Russians being born in Kiev, never playing hockey in Ukraine, and moving to Russia for reasons other than hockey career advancement. I can't even think of an example.

Zherdev, Zhitnik, rings a bell?

If you tell Zhitnik he is ukr - well, I want to see his reaction, really :laugh:

You just have a too optimistic view of things.

I live in Kiev and is actually a product of Sokol youth system.

Sokol doesn't have its own rink nor the sport of ice-hockey is being fed money like for example football is.

There are indeed plenty of hockey players born in Kiev, but they choose Russia - that's where the money, fame at the international level, and development as a player to be had.

I see a total collapse of ukrainian youth hockey system within 3-5 years, because neither money nor intention or desire is being put into it.
The talented 16 year olds travel to Canada or Russia if they want to pursue their careers in hockey. This place is like a dead land for them.

A friend of mine is sending his kid to try in the minors in Canada - if you want serious hockey development, you go where the system exists. In Ukraine they can teach you how to skate, fall, stick-handle but that's about it.
How to stay competitive is learnt in Canada and Russia.

I agree with everything you just said, and most of my posts have been centered around getting elite level development. Without elite player development you are correct, hockey will be dead in Ukraine in 3-5 years. A KHL club is possible, a club in Kiev was accepted for this year but had to withdraw because of the arena situation. I thought it was because the Palace of sports was to go under renovations this year? The KHL is down one club this year because of that reason.

Ukraine is a wasteland for development, but if there was elite level development in Ukraine then I don't think it is to much of a stretch to state more players would play for Ukraine and the program would turn around. If a KHL club is not possible, then yes hockey will be dead in Ukraine.

The situation is very similar to soccer in Canada 5-10 years ago, no professional clubs, players leaving Canada at 12 years old to pursue their careers, and a giant list of players that defected. Next year Canada will have three clubs in MLS, developing NT level players at home, and bringing some exposure to the sport. Canada is a small nation in international soccer and will always have players defect for larger nations or leave for better development but having options at home does benefit the sport and the national team because it will happen less.

I agree with everything you just said, and most of my posts have been centered around getting elite level development. Without elite player development you are correct, hockey will be dead in Ukraine in 3-5 years. A KHL club is possible, a club in Kiev was accepted for this year but had to withdraw because of the arena situation. I thought it was because the Palace of sports was to go under renovations this year? The KHL is down one club this year because of that reason.

Ukraine is a wasteland for development, but if there was elite level development in Ukraine then I don't think it is to much of a stretch to state more players would play for Ukraine and the program would turn around. If a KHL club is not possible, then yes hockey will be dead in Ukraine.

The situation is very similar to soccer in Canada 5-10 years ago, no professional clubs, players leaving Canada at 12 years old to pursue their careers, and a giant list of players that defected. Next year Canada will have three clubs in MLS, developing NT level players at home, and bringing some exposure to the sport. Canada is a small nation in international soccer and will always have players defect for larger nations or leave for better development but having options at home does benefit the sport and the national team because it will happen less.

I really hope Ukraine gets a KHL team this coming season. They have such a large population and so many potential players that it would be a shame to lose them as a hockey producing nation. I think with a KHL team and proper development program, Ukraine could be a top 10 nation one day.

It is surprising, and sad, that a country like Ukraine cannot "keep up" in the scheme of i\ I have emailed their hockey federation via the IIHF, and never got a response. I have a contact on another hockey site trying to look into a jersey, but if anyone here might be able to help me, please msg me.

pray they make it into the WC top division or make the olympics then, because otherwise jerseys wont be produced for public consumption

I've only ever found 1 in stores, and it was from the WC, haven't seen the newer ones since they were relegated

Zherdev, Zhitnik, rings a bell?

If you tell Zhitnik he is ukr - well, I want to see his reaction, really :laugh:

what are you trying to say?

Zherdev says he is Ukrainian

Zhitnik as well, and when he was playing would return to Kiev to train in the offseason with UKR team guys; he also repped the Ukie flag when he was in the North America vs. World format allstar game

so...

I really hope Ukraine gets a KHL team this coming season. They have such a large population and so many potential players that it would be a shame to lose them as a hockey producing nation. I think with a KHL team and proper development program, Ukraine could be a top 10 nation one day.

Absolutely

Honestly, if a messed up country like Belarus can develop a tier-1 national team, so can Ukraine given it has 5x the population

someone just needs to call up Eugene Melnyk and tell him to buy Sokil and enter them into the KHL or something...

Absolutely

Honestly, if a messed up country like Belarus can develop a tier-1 national team, so can Ukraine given it has 5x the population

someone just needs to call up Eugene Melnyk and tell him to buy Sokil and enter them into the KHL or something...

Melnyk is the worst person to call.. he cant even take care of the senators, which have among the least loyal fanbase, for the worst reasons.

Melnyk is the worst person to call.. he cant even take care of the senators, which have among the least loyal fanbase, for the worst reasons.

I don't see what the Sens sucking this season has to do with him as an owner. He isn't the GM or the coach, nor is he Kovalev.

Absolutely

Honestly, if a messed up country like Belarus can develop a tier-1 national team, so can Ukraine given it has 5x the population

someone just needs to call up Eugene Melnyk and tell him to buy Sokil and enter them into the KHL or something...

I´m not sure that Belarus is such a good example, while you might call it a messed up country ,when it commes to hockey and development and especially the support it gets in the last years there they are ahead even of a high number of countries that are miles ahead even of Ukraine in most other areas of development. You can´t forget Lukašenko and his love for hockey and all the support it gets therefore (for example there are plans according to which Belarus will have 48 rinks until 2014,currently they have less than a half of that AFAIK). I don´t think hockey´s something Janukovič or anyone else with power in Ukraine would cares about, is it? Also the other part is that in Belarus hockey is the most popular sport and compared to that AFAIK in Ukraine it´s more of a minor sport when comparing to soccer for example, isn´t it?

Of course, that doesn´t mean that Ukraine can´t built a succesfull hockey programme with a good men´s national team, however to achieve that they have to work under very different conditions than the Belarussians do and I would say actually worse conditions.

I´m not sure that Belarus is such a good example, while you might call it a messed up country ,when it commes to hockey and development and especially the support it gets in the last years there they are ahead even of a high number of countries that are miles ahead even of Ukraine in most other areas of development. You can´t forget Lukašenko and his love for hockey and all the support it gets therefore (for example there are plans according to which Belarus will have 48 rinks until 2014,currently they have less than a half of that AFAIK). I don´t think hockey´s something Janukovič or anyone else with power in Ukraine would cares about, is it? Also the other part is that in Belarus hockey is the most popular sport and compared to that AFAIK in Ukraine it´s more of a minor sport when comparing to soccer for example, isn´t it?

Of course, that doesn´t mean that Ukraine can´t built a succesfull hockey programme with a good men´s national team, however to achieve that they have to work under very different conditions than the Belarussians do and I would say actually worse conditions.

Well since Ukraine has between 45 and 50 million people, even if hockey is a minor sport the country should be able to produce at least a few KHL or NHL players every couple years with a solid development program. I think they could be a top 10 nation if they got their act together.

Well since Ukraine has between 45 and 50 million people, even if hockey is a minor sport the country should be able to produce at least a few KHL or NHL players every couple years with a solid development program. I think they could be a top 10 nation if they got their act together.

As I said I don´t doubt that Ukraine can create a good programme, though I disagree about the top ten, there are only so many countries that can be in the top 10 and there are actually more than 10 countries that are far ahead of Ukraine already today and many of them are progresing rather than regressing. My point was just that pointing a finger at Belarus and saying that they did it even though they might be lesser than Ukraine seems very wrong to me in hockey.

I really hate when people use that number of inhabitants argument in any hockey discussion, it just makes no sense, asides from Russia and the US all of the countries that are or have been the most competitive in the sport are countries with a relativelly small population of about 5-20 million people, so why do so many people still assume that the population matters when it commes to hockey? Or look at Latvia and Slovenia, countries with around 2 million inhabitants. And then look at Germany a country with one of the highest population amongst the hockey nations in the elite category and also one of the richest (light years ahead of Ukraine economically) and for long years they´ve barely been in the top 10 countries, though it has changed now it seems, but it took very long years. The number of population plays little to no role to being competitive in hockey.

If you want to take into account any population numbers when it commes down to hockey you might take into account the number of population playing hockey- the number of registered hockey players. What does it matter that Russia has 140 millions inhabitans when the number of hockey players there is smaller than in 10 million Sweden and Czech republic and even in 5 million Finland? Wat does it matter that the US has 300 million inhabitans, when their numbers of players is very similar to 20 million Canada? And even that might be an argument only when it commes to depth and not to the top end players. Currently Slovenia with their less than 1000 hockey players have two players playing in the NHL, which is just 2 less than for example Switzerland with totally 25 000 players. Okay, maybe I mainly mentioned the top teams in this argument, however when you look at the wekaer half of the top division how many countries with a big population do you see that are pernament members? Most of the middle od the pack are countries with a population between 2-10 million people. And even between the teams going up and down countries with big population like Italy and France are hardly any superior to Austria with their 8 million or even tiny Slovenia.

But yes, Ukraine should be able to produce at least those few NHL and KHL players every few years, however I believe they should be able to do so, because in the past they´ve already done it, because of the history of bringing up players they have, but it has nothing to do with whether Ukraine is a country with 10 million or with 45 million people, the 2nd part you mention in your 1st sentence- having a solid hockey programme- personally I think that has a 99% importance on the future of Ukrainian hockey, while their population has an importance of maybe about 1% in this whole thing.

well, the point is that Belarus is smaller than Ukraine but in a similar economic and geo-political situation....albiet poorer and run by a crazy dictator

that plus a fraction of the population and they can do a lot with hockey. Just pointing out the room for growth in Ukraine is all. Obviously net population isn't a be-all end-all indicator, but it is a measuring stick for growth.

well, the point is that Belarus is smaller than Ukraine but in a similar economic and geo-political situation....albiet poorer and run by a crazy dictator

I guess it helps that Lukashenko is also crazy about hockey

I guess it helps that Lukashenko is also crazy about hockey

oShTJ90fC34

Well since Ukraine has between 45 and 50 million people, even if hockey is a minor sport the country should be able to produce at least a few KHL or NHL players every couple years with a solid development program. I think they could be a top 10 nation if they got their act together.

Impossible under current economic development.
Ice hockey is deemed "redundant" sport by the current political leadership and it is a quite expensive sport to enter especially at youth level.
All the great talents we had, they went through the soviet hockey school, now as I said, Kiev-based team "Sokol" doesn't have its own rink.
The only arena large enough to draw KHL crowds is used for freaking travelling, agriculture and other exhibitions.:(

not really, zherdev/babchuk are sokil school alumni who learned their game in the 90s, so post-soviet

even poni/fedo would have started in the early 90s in ukraine

only guys like tverdovsky, zhitnik,khrystych, etc. can really be called soviet-era guys

regardless though, I see your point, the playing field has changed significantly in the past 15 years and economically Ukraine will only continue to suffer/regress under the Yanukov/POR regime

not really, zherdev/babchuk are sokil school alumni who learned their game in the 90s, so post-soviet

even poni/fedo would have started in the early 90s in ukraine

only guys like tverdovsky, zhitnik,khrystych, etc. can really be called soviet-era guys

regardless though, I see your point, the playing field has changed significantly in the past 15 years and economically Ukraine will only continue to suffer/regress under the Yanukov/POR regime

It'd be nice to see Ukraine make it up to the WC after this season and somehow get Gaiduchenko, Zherdev, Babchuk, Zhitnik, Poni, Fedotenko, Tverdovsky, both Mikhnov's, etc. to play. I know it's next to impossible, but that would be great for Ukrainian hockey. Honestly, a team with all of those guys could really do quite well. If Germany can almost win bronze, then a Ukrainian team with all of those guys would have a good chance at least getting to the quarters.

Also, has Gaiduchenko answered whether or not he'll be playing with Ukraine yet? He said he'd make up his mind in the coming days, but I haven't heard anything yet.

It'd be nice to see Ukraine make it up to the WC after this season and somehow get Gaiduchenko, Zherdev, Babchuk, Zhitnik, Poni, Fedotenko, Tverdovsky, both Mikhnov's, etc. to play. I know it's next to impossible,
It's definitely impossible since half of them are not even eligible.

It's definitely impossible since half of them are not even eligible.

I'm aware. Poni, Fedotenko, Gaiduchenko and Andrei Mikhnov are all eligible though. Babchuk may be too as I don't think he's played in a IIHF, at least not in many years. Regardless, those guys would probably be enough for them to at least make the top division of WC.

Also, has Gaiduchenko answered whether or not he'll be playing with Ukraine yet? He said he'd make up his mind in the coming days, but I haven't heard anything yet.

Been looking around but no information on it yet, I guess no one will know until the world championships happen.

Babchuk may be too as I don't think he's played in a IIHF, at least not in many years.
Doesn't matter how long ago it was, Babchuk played for Russia in the IIHF U18s twice and doesn't hold Ukrainian citizenship so he'd have to spend 4 seasons living and playing in Ukraine and get his citizenship to become eligible.

Doesn't matter how long ago it was, Babchuk played for Russia in the IIHF U18s twice and doesn't hold Ukrainian citizenship so he'd have to spend 4 seasons living and playing in Ukraine and get his citizenship to become eligible.

I'm pretty sure he has Ukrainian citizenship. He was born in Ukraine and thus he's Ukrainian citizen. This matter is very complicated and there tons of loopholes but there are other examples of players holding dual Rus/Ukr citizenship/passports though it's technically impossible.

I'm not 100% certain myself. I was going off of his EliteProspects profile which is usually accurate.

I'm not 100% certain myself. I was going off of his EliteProspects profile which is usually accurate.

Part about 2 passports doesn't matter, because even if he would want to play for Ukraine now, he would have to play 4 consecutive seasons in Ukraine as you already pointed out..

Part about 2 passports doesn't matter, because even if he would want to play for Ukraine now, he would have to play 4 consecutive seasons in Ukraine as you already pointed out..

Why would he have to play 4 consecutive years in Ukraine in order to be able to play for them internationally? Nabokov played in a IIHF sanctioned event for Kazakhstan, but now represents Russia. Are the circumstances different in this situation?

Why would he have to play 4 consecutive years in Ukraine in order to be able to play for them internationally? Nabokov played in a IIHF sanctioned event for Kazakhstan, but now represents Russia. Are the circumstances different in this situation?

Nabokov had played 2 consecutive seasons in Russia before playing for Russia thus fulfilling IIHF´s criteria for double citizens. I´m not sure whether anyone knows whether Babchuk and the other double citizen Ukrainians had actually played at least 3 consecutive seasons before starting their junior careers in Russia. (I don´t know how old they were when they moved to play Russia as eliteprospects only has stats for them since they were 15 or so). Asides from playing those years, there is also an another choice, they could just give up their Russian citizenship and there would be no other conditions in order for them to play for Ukraine, but I really don´t see that happening.

Why would he have to play 4 consecutive years in Ukraine in order to be able to play for them internationally? Nabokov played in a IIHF sanctioned event for Kazakhstan, but now represents Russia. Are the circumstances different in this situation?

Circumstances are the same, but Nabokov is the sole example where this rule wasn't carried out. I'm not sure why IIHF decided to do so, but I guess Russian hockey federation pressed the right buttons... :shakehead

Part about 2 passports doesn't matter, because even if he would want to play for Ukraine now, he would have to play 4 consecutive seasons in Ukraine as you already pointed out..
I know, I was stating that I think he doesn't have his citizenship right now.

Why would he have to play 4 consecutive years in Ukraine in order to be able to play for them internationally? Nabokov played in a IIHF sanctioned event for Kazakhstan, but now represents Russia. Are the circumstances different in this situation?
That's more a result of the IIHF being inconsistent with their own regulations. Nabakov was born during the USSR era and he's ethnically Russian but he was born and lived in Kazakhstan. He has dual citizenship after the USSR broke apart. He wasn't good enough in 94 to play for Russia and wasn't invited to play for the Russian U20 team but Kazakhstan offered him a chance to play for the Men's National Team as a 19 year old.

He wanted to represent Russia in the 2002 but the IIHF wouldn't allow it because he had played for Kazakhstan and hadn't met to required 4 years of living and playing in Russia but they folded to him in 2006 and he was awarded a waiver allowing him to play for Russia from then on out.

Those requirements are very real and rarely waived. They are seen most often with Americans and Canadians who go to play in Europe, like the area so much they stay there for years and end up picking up citizenship and representing their new home.

I know, I was stating that I think he doesn't have his citizenship right now.


That's more a result of the IIHF being inconsistent with their own regulations. Nabakov was born during the USSR era and he's ethnically Russian but he was born and lived in Kazakhstan. He has dual citizenship after the USSR broke apart. He wasn't good enough in 94 to play for Russia and wasn't invited to play for the Russian U20 team but Kazakhstan offered him a chance to play for the Men's National Team as a 19 year old.

He wanted to represent Russia in the 2002 but the IIHF wouldn't allow it because he had played for Kazakhstan and hadn't met to required 4 years of living and playing in Russia but they folded to him in 2006 and he was awarded a waiver allowing him to play for Russia from then on out.

Those requirements are very real and rarely waived. They are seen most often with Americans and Canadians who go to play in Europe, like the area so much they stay there for years and end up picking up citizenship and representing their new home.

If that's the case then Ukraine should push for the same thing. They should push for any player who was born in Ukraine to be able to play there, as long as they haven't played internationally for another country in at least 4 or so years.

If the IIHF wants to improve hockey internationally they have to start somewhere. Former Soviet countries could really benefit from a rule like that. Players toward the end of their career (i.e. Zhitnik) who made the decision when the USSR folded to play for Russia, but were born in another Soviet Republic should be able to come back and represent their country of birth. This would help keep those countries competitive and hopefully bring back interest in playing for their country of birth. I could really see this benefiting Kazakhstan and Ukraine.

What do you guys think?

If that's the case then Ukraine should push for the same thing. They should push for any player who was born in Ukraine to be able to play there, as long as they haven't played internationally for another country in at least 4 or so years.

If the IIHF wants to improve hockey internationally they have to start somewhere. Former Soviet countries could really benefit from a rule like that. Players toward the end of their career (i.e. Zhitnik) who made the decision when the USSR folded to play for Russia, but were born in another Soviet Republic should be able to come back and represent their country of birth. This would help keep those countries competitive and hopefully bring back interest in playing for their country of birth. I could really see this benefiting Kazakhstan and Ukraine.

What do you guys think?

I think the IIHF should allow players to switch nations if they haven’t played a senior international game. If you play in the u-18’s or U-20’s you are tied to that nation you played for, but you have the ability to switch in the future. it should be difficult to do so, I think a player should have to get permission from the National federation they are leaving.

If that's the case then Ukraine should push for the same thing.
For Babchuk to be in the same situation as Nabokov he would still need to play 3 seasons in Ukraine, or at the very least 2 (which is the rule for players who have never played internationally). If he does not even do that he hasn't much of a case.

They should push for any player who was born in Ukraine to be able to play there, as long as they haven't played internationally for another country in at least 4 or so years.
What's next? Anyone who visits Ukraine is eligible as well? That's about as relevant as birthplace.

If the IIHF wants to improve hockey internationally they have to start somewhere. Former Soviet countries could really benefit from a rule like that. Players toward the end of their career (i.e. Zhitnik) who made the decision when the USSR folded to play for Russia, but were born in another Soviet Republic should be able to come back and represent their country of birth. This would help keep those countries competitive and hopefully bring back interest in playing for their country of birth. I could really see this benefiting Kazakhstan and Ukraine.

What do you guys think?
Such players nearing the end of their careers are only marginaly better, if at all, than Ukr or Kaz national team regulars. They would bring precious little. Players born in a Soviet republic will eventually die out anyway.


I think the IIHF should allow players to switch nations if they haven’t played a senior international game. If you play in the u-18’s or U-20’s you are tied to that nation you played for, but you have the ability to switch in the future. it should be difficult to do so, I think a player should have to get permission from the National federation they are leaving.
And you would end up with teams icing a dozen Canadians. I'm sure that will really help the national programmes :shakehead

Well they have stated they are going to push to nationalize players, Russians included

Which while this may help the national team, it doesn't help Ukrainian hockey....but if it gets them into the top division I guess that does help Ukrainian hockey...catch 22

Doesn't matter how long ago it was, Babchuk played for Russia in the IIHF U18s twice and doesn't hold Ukrainian citizenship so he'd have to spend 4 seasons living and playing in Ukraine and get his citizenship to become eligible.

2 years on a team like Budivelnyk and presto, he's team Ukraine eligible, no?

2 years on a team like Budivelnyk and presto, he's team Ukraine eligible, no?

4 years and yes.

If Budivelnik (Ukrainian potential KHL club) would get his ITC (international transfer card) from Russian hockey federation and from that moment on he spends for consecutive years playing for very same team he becomes Ukrainian eligible.

(Example - Ainars Podzins. Born in Latvia, spent all of his life in Russia, signed for Dinamo Riga of KHL on a two year deal, Russian hockey federation gave his ITC to Latvian hockey federation on 27th September 2010, he officially becomes Latvia national team eligible on 28th September 2012. And that's it.)

Quick clarification: he doesn't have to play for the same team, just within the same country. For instance, a Canadian who played U20 for Canada could go to Germany and play for multiple DEL teams over the 4 years and be eligible to play for Germany.

4 years and yes.

If Budivelnik (Ukrainian potential KHL club) would get his ITC (international transfer card) from Russian hockey federation and from that moment on he spends for consecutive years playing for very same team he becomes Ukrainian eligible.

(Example - Ainars Podzins. Born in Latvia, spent all of his life in Russia, signed for Dinamo Riga of KHL on a two year deal, Russian hockey federation gave his ITC to Latvian hockey federation on 27th September 2010, he officially becomes Latvia national team eligible on 28th September 2012. And that's it.)

or maybe he's not eligible at all? on the IIHF site for the 4 year rule it says it can only be done once, and he had to follow the 2 year rule to play for Russia in the first place, so I assume this means he's not allowed to switch back?

http://news.uah.info/ukraine/page/48/CategoryID/6/NewsID/518162/ (russian)

http://translate.google.ca/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://news.uah.info/ukraine/page/48/CategoryID/6/NewsID/518162/&ei=b3VQTYfHEomosAOqvNzBBg&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CC0Q7gEwAQ&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%2522%25D0%25A1%25D0%25B5%25D1%2580%2 5D0%25B3%25D0%25B5%25D0%25B9%2B%25D0%2593%25D0%25B 0%25D0%25B9%25D0%25B4%25D1%2583%25D1%2587%25D0%25B 5%25D0%25BD%25D0%25BA%25D0%25BE%2522%2B%25D0%25A3% 25D0%25BA%25D1%2580%25D0%25B0%25D0%25B8%25D0%25BD% 25D0%25B0%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX%26tbs%3Dqdr:w%26prmd% 3Divns (translated)

CSKA Moscow goalkeeper Sergei Gayduchenko together with the second Russian team began preparations for the Cup Evrovyzova, which will be held February 9-12....

or maybe he's not eligible at all? on the IIHF site for the 4 year rule it says it can only be done once, and he had to follow the 2 year rule to play for Russia in the first place, so I assume this means he's not allowed to switch back?
He has not "switched" to Russia, since he never played for Ukraine. Switching from Russia to Ukraine would be his first switch, which is allowed.

http://news.uah.info/ukraine/page/48/CategoryID/6/NewsID/518162/ (russian)

http://translate.google.ca/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://news.uah.info/ukraine/page/48/CategoryID/6/NewsID/518162/&ei=b3VQTYfHEomosAOqvNzBBg&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CC0Q7gEwAQ&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%2522%25D0%25A1%25D0%25B5%25D1%2580%2 5D0%25B3%25D0%25B5%25D0%25B9%2B%25D0%2593%25D0%25B 0%25D0%25B9%25D0%25B4%25D1%2583%25D1%2587%25D0%25B 5%25D0%25BD%25D0%25BA%25D0%25BE%2522%2B%25D0%25A3% 25D0%25BA%25D1%2580%25D0%25B0%25D0%25B8%25D0%25BD% 25D0%25B0%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX%26tbs%3Dqdr:w%26prmd% 3Divns (translated)


that doesnt necessarily mean he wont play for ukraine.Although it kind of gives you a hint that he wont...

Looks like he is just playing with a russian team in a tournament. Likely not an IIHF sanctioned one?

http://news.uah.info/ukraine/page/48/CategoryID/6/NewsID/518162/ (russian)

http://translate.google.ca/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://news.uah.info/ukraine/page/48/CategoryID/6/NewsID/518162/&ei=b3VQTYfHEomosAOqvNzBBg&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CC0Q7gEwAQ&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%2522%25D0%25A1%25D0%25B5%25D1%2580%2 5D0%25B3%25D0%25B5%25D0%25B9%2B%25D0%2593%25D0%25B 0%25D0%25B9%25D0%25B4%25D1%2583%25D1%2587%25D0%25B 5%25D0%25BD%25D0%25BA%25D0%25BE%2522%2B%25D0%25A3% 25D0%25BA%25D1%2580%25D0%25B0%25D0%25B8%25D0%25BD% 25D0%25B0%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX%26tbs%3Dqdr:w%26prmd% 3Divns (translated)

Well that sucks for Ukraine. He could be a really big piece for them.

http://news.uah.info/ukraine/page/48/CategoryID/6/NewsID/518162/ (russian)

http://translate.google.ca/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://news.uah.info/ukraine/page/48/CategoryID/6/NewsID/518162/&ei=b3VQTYfHEomosAOqvNzBBg&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CC0Q7gEwAQ&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%2522%25D0%25A1%25D0%25B5%25D1%2580%2 5D0%25B3%25D0%25B5%25D0%25B9%2B%25D0%2593%25D0%25B 0%25D0%25B9%25D0%25B4%25D1%2583%25D1%2587%25D0%25B 5%25D0%25BD%25D0%25BA%25D0%25BE%2522%2B%25D0%25A3% 25D0%25BA%25D1%2580%25D0%25B0%25D0%25B8%25D0%25BD% 25D0%25B0%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX%26tbs%3Dqdr:w%26prmd% 3Divns (translated)

EIHC tournaments are not run by the IIHF. This means nothing. Several people who are not eligible to play for their new nation under IIHF rules have already played in EIHC tournaments this season alone.

EIHC tournaments are not run by the IIHF. This means nothing. Several people who are not eligible to play for their new nation under IIHF rules have already played in EIHC tournaments this season alone.

Yeah, it means nothing.

From his perspective at this point though, he has more to gain by going with Ukraine, no? At least he would get to play in the WC's and not these obscure tournaments, maybe get a chance to play in the top division *some day*, a chance he absolutely won't get with Russia

He has not "switched" to Russia, since he never played for Ukraine. Switching from Russia to Ukraine would be his first switch, which is allowed.

Are you sure? He had to wait the 2 years before he was eligible, would that not count as a transfer? If it wasn't a transfer he would have been able to play for Russia the second he got a passport.

EIHC tournaments are not run by the IIHF. This means nothing. Several people who are not eligible to play for their new nation under IIHF rules have already played in EIHC tournaments this season alone.

I am just going by what the article said, it stated he wouldn't play for Ukraine. While you maybe correct, I don't understand why someone would play in a minor tournament for one country only to switch to another in a major one

I am just going by what the article said, it stated he wouldn't play for Ukraine. While you maybe correct, I don't understand why someone would play in a minor tournament for one country only to switch to another in a major one

Ukraine's training camp starts on the 7th, so I guess the article is right. If he had any intention of going to Ukraine, he wouldn't be suiting up for Russia's C-team or w/e it is


While we're on the topic of Ukrainian goaltenders, I was just reading an interview with Balaban and why he left Sokil.....the Russian team (Vorenzh) offered him new pads (lol!) Such a sad state we're in...

Are you sure? He had to wait the 2 years before he was eligible, would that not count as a transfer? If it wasn't a transfer he would have been able to play for Russia the second he got a passport.
It's not a transfer unless he played for Ukraine (or any country other than Russia) before. See: http://www.iihf.com/channels/iihf-world-championship/home/iihf-eligibility.html

Players who switch are eligible the minute they get their new citizenship, provided they have played 4 seasons in their new country.

I am just going by what the article said, it stated he wouldn't play for Ukraine. While you maybe correct, I don't understand why someone would play in a minor tournament for one country only to switch to another in a major one
I'll admit that I didn't read the article so I didn't know it said he wouldn't play for Ukraine and I think you're right. The only reason I can see would be more playing time or making sure he stays in good condition.

It's not a transfer unless he played for Ukraine (or any country other than Russia) before. See: http://www.iihf.com/channels/iihf-world-championship/home/iihf-eligibility.html

Players who switch are eligible the minute they get their new citizenship, provided they have played 4 seasons in their new country.

Gaiduchenko, for example, had to play in Russia 2 years after getting his passport before becoming eligible for team Russia

Gaiduchenko, for example, had to play in Russia 2 years after getting his passport before becoming eligible for team Russia
And? It's not an IIHF rule.

And it turns out Gaiduchenko isn't even on the Russian B (http://www.pointstreak.com/prostats/teamroster.html?teamid=293916&seasonid=6766) roster at the Enrgi Danmark Challenge (http://www.pointstreak.com/prostats/scoreboard.html?leagueid=911&seasonid=6766).

Kudlaev and Shikin both play in the KHL Jr. league the MHL. The saga continues?

And it turns out Gaiduchenko isn't even on the Russian B (http://www.pointstreak.com/prostats/teamroster.html?teamid=293916&seasonid=6766) roster at the Enrgi Danmark Challenge (http://www.pointstreak.com/prostats/scoreboard.html?leagueid=911&seasonid=6766).

Kudlaev and Shikin both play in the KHL Jr. league the MHL. The saga continues?

Gaiduchenko is injured and that is why he couldn't play

http://www.cska-hockey.ru/news/Gajduchenko_ne_pomozhet_vtoroj_sbornoj (Russian)

http://translate.google.ca/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://www.cska-hockey.ru/tags/%25C3%25E0%25E9%25E4%25F3%25F7%25E5%25ED%25EA%25EE&ei=-eFSTbHTKIiqsAPe56yKBw&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCcQ7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%2522%25D0%25A1%25D0%25B5%25D1%2580%2 5D0%25B3%25D0%25B5%25D0%25B9%2B%25D0%2593%25D0%25B 0%25D0%25B9%25D0%25B4%25D1%2583%25D1%2587%25D0%25B 5%25D0%25BD%25D0%25BA%25D0%25BE%2522%26hl%3Den%26s a%3DX%26tbs%3Dqdr:d%26prmd%3Divns

CSKA Moscow goalkeeper Sergei Gayduchenko was damaged leg in training the second Russian team and will not be able to help the team in matches next Evrovyzova Cup, which will be held February 9-12 at the Danish Odense.

Makes sense.

thank the lord, it's a sign


go home serhiy!