Continue.

mmmmmmm new thread smell

Pfft, ADR got lucky.

That was Santino's Rumble to win. :sarcasm:

The war of words heating up between Mark Henry and Seamus heating up. Its lasted almost 20 seconds now!

mmmmmmm new thread smell

No, that's just me breaking wind.

ADR's facial expressions are awesome.

ADR wins with clinical wrestling, hurts the guy then capitalizes on it with his finisher. That's how you book a heel. Looks strong in the ring without cheating.

ADR wins with clinical wrestling, hurts the guy then capitalizes on it with his finisher. That's how you book a heel. Looks strong in the ring without cheating.

For now, once he wins the belt he'll just job to announcers.

When ADR eventually turns face at some point (he's too good in the ring, fans will turn him face at some point), who the hell could be his opponent for that?

why pretend theres a brand split?

Excuse me! *heat follows*

Cougar?

Just threw up in my mouth a little.

Ugh.

When ADR eventually turns face at some point (he's too good in the ring, fans will turn him face at some point), who the hell could be his opponent for that?

I watched him in a candid interview talk about never wanting to be a face ever again. He was a face in Mexico and said he loves being the heel.

This crowd blows ass. Vicki is doing her best at drawing heat and they still aren't that loud.

ADR's facial expressions are awesome.

http://static.businessinsider.com/image/4d4722ceccd1d5326d070000/alberto-del-rio.jpg

Cole: "Does anyone have any respect for this woman?"
King: "No"
Me: :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Rapadoooo

might be the first time i was ever happy to hear cenas music. vickie has serious xpac heat with me

annnd i change my mind. cena has more xpac heat with me than vickie does

All Cena haters - they love what Cole just said.

I watched him in a candid interview talk about never wanting to be a face ever again. He was a face in Mexico and said he loves being the heel.


He hasn't had the crowd eating out of his hand like The Rock had. If The Great One is at Mania, once he sees and hears the pop, he might change his mind.

HLA???? again?

Gross.

Ziggles looks like he's trying not to crack up.

By the way, where the hell is Teddy Long anyways? Is he dead?

Cole was right about Cena. :eek:

woooooo GO PACK GO!!!!! SUPERBOWL CHAMPS!!!!!!

"thats just stupid" cole was sure right there

"thats just stupid" cole was sure right there

Cena really going for the cheap pops tonight.

He hasn't had the crowd eating out of his hand like The Rock had. If The Great One is at Mania, once he sees and hears the pop, he might change his mind.

I'm just waiting for that moment where ADR says "My name... My name is....." and we all know what the Rock says.

ADR in the ring w/ the Rock will be amazing.

NexSUX >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> CM Sucks

lol.

So can anyone explain to me why the hell miz is NOT in the EC but Edge is?

Man I really wish this was in my area! Will this be in theaters for a week?

I'm just waiting for that moment where ADR says "My name... My name is....." and we all know what the Rock says.

ADR in the ring w/ the Rock will be amazing.

^This.

Same ol crap. Tired of these SD guys randomly showing up on Raw(and vice versa), road to Wrestlemania or not.

"I'm Mr. Bradstone.



I'M THE CHAPERONE."

Here we go again.

I'm just waiting for that moment where ADR says "My name... My name is....." and we all know what the Rock says.

ADR in the ring w/ the Rock will be amazing.

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOUR NAME IS! :yo:

Well with that JR song that was obviously for Taker.

Same ol crap. Tired of these SD guys randomly showing up on Raw(and vice versa), road to Wrestlemania or not.

It's been like this for as long as I can remember come WM time. There are no restrictions to the brands during the road to wm. People still continue to whine about it.

This RAW seems like at about 8:55 they realized they were 30 minutes short on material.

Lol.. weak Raw. What the hell is that garbage?

Well definitely didn't see that one coming. :laugh:

pretty horrible raw

Brutal Raw.

It's been like this for as long as I can remember come WM time. There are no restrictions to the brands during the road to wm. People still continue to whine about it.

At least back then it was Raw vs SD guys to build up marquee matchups for Mania. Brock vs Goldberg, Taker vs Kane, HBK vs Angle, MITB 2, etc. Here there's no rhyme or reason. Makes the brand extension completely useless if it's not already

The new promo makes me firmly believe it's The Undertaker that the 2-21-11 promos are referring to.

Terrible Raw.

Cena overcomes the odds? What a surprise ending!
:sarcasm:

Terrible Raw.

Cena overcomes the odds? What a surprise ending!
:sarcasm:

That's something that has always bothered my about Cena/Mexican Cena. If they just overcome odds all the time... how am I to believe any of their storylines. Keep the fan honest by actually making the guy lose a feud.

I think that's why HBK will go down as the best wrestler ever. You never knew what he'd do in the ring. You never knew who was goign to win. He wasn't afraid to put ANYBODY over. He also understood the importance of getting a few wins to then set up his opponent for the biggest one. The only other guy who has his art is Jericho.

http://www.gifsoup.com/view4/1919687/santino-s-celebration-o.gif

Pretty bad Raw, but also pretty obvious that Undertaker is 2-21-11

The new promo makes me firmly believe it's The Undertaker that the 2-21-11 promos are referring to.

Rise up from the grave?

Yeah, c'mon.

Or maybe its the return of chris benoit :sarcasm:

No? ok.. :(

I guess the only thing left to figure out is WHY undertaker is coming to raw.

Best part of Raw was when Punk called Orton, Randall. I was dying of laughter. I know that's what it actually is, but it sounds funny.

He hasn't had the crowd eating out of his hand like The Rock had. If The Great One is at Mania, once he sees and hears the pop, he might change his mind.

Rock built that by being a heel of course.

That's something that has always bothered my about Cena/Mexican Cena. If they just overcome odds all the time... how am I to believe any of their storylines. Keep the fan honest by actually making the guy lose a feud.

I think that's why HBK will go down as the best wrestler ever. You never knew what he'd do in the ring. You never knew who was goign to win. He wasn't afraid to put ANYBODY over. He also understood the importance of getting a few wins to then set up his opponent for the biggest one. The only other guy who has his art is Jericho.
HBK didn't put anybody over outside of the clique until he missed 4 years in the ring and no longer had enough pull to make those calls. The guy vacated a title because he refused to drop the belt to Bret Hart at Wrestlemania.

Yeah I found that comment on HBK a bit of a stretch also.

Chris Jericho will put "ANYBODY" over, they could bring back Disco Inferno and Jericho would put him over if asked. HBK, "ANYBODY", not so much, and definitely not early in his career. Who did HBK even put over? seems to me that when he did eventually put people over, it usually would be people that were established anywaya. He wouldn't go out and job to guys like Truth and Bourne like Jericho did. Maybe I'm just not remembering right or my judgment is clouded from the many stories of how much of a ***** he was backstage and the number of people he didn't want to put over.

That said, he is still one of if not the greatest of all time.

HBK didn't put anybody over outside of the clique until he missed 4 years in the ring and no longer had enough pull to make those calls. The guy vacated a title because he refused to drop the belt to Bret Hart at Wrestlemania.

Lol. I'm not talking about 1990's HBK. I think that speaks for itself.

Even for "born again Christian HBK" to say he would put over "ANYBODY" is a stretch.

why pretend theres a brand split?
Its been said for awhile that they are trying to move away from the brand split. After Wrestlemania, I've heard they don't really want to have the brand split anymore.

So can anyone explain to me why the hell miz is NOT in the EC but Edge is?
Easy.

ADR won the Royal Rumble and challenged for the WHC. Since the WWE Title didn't have a challenger, they had a RAW Royal Rumble of 7 guys to determine the #1 contender for the WWE Title at Elimination Chamber, while the other 6 guys would fight in their own gimmick match to determine the #1 contender to Wrestlemania's WWE Title.

PS. I'm watching an old episode of The Adventures of Sinbad and Bret Hart is in it. I had no idea. :biglaugh:

Its been said for awhile that they are trying to move away from the brand split. After Wrestlemania, I've heard they don't really want to have the brand split anymore.

Wrestlemania would be the perfect time to unify the titles then.

Wrestlemania would be the perfect time to unify the titles then.
My guess is they only unify the US/IC title (with the IC title of course being the chosen one).

IC Title will basically turn into the youngster title, WHC will be the new secondary title, and the WWE Title will be the main title, IMO anyway.

BTW, Cole nearly made me piss my pants laughing when he was ripping on R-Truth. :biglaugh:

My guess is they only unify the US/IC title (with the IC title of course being the chosen one).

IC Title will basically turn into the youngster title, WHC will be the new secondary title, and the WWE Title will be the main title, IMO anyway.

BTW, Cole nearly made me piss my pants laughing when he was ripping on R-Truth. :biglaugh:

That was ridiculous. Why is he yelling? WE'RE IN MILWAUKEE! WE'RE IN MILWAUKEE YOU GOOF! I thought it was funny he said GREEN BAY, WHASSUP?! I read that everyone back stage was laughing at him for that slip up.

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my fav part of last night's show was Punk and his delivery to Orton while sitting.

Punk has a way of delivering, like someone else mentioned Randell, that just works so well. He says things in regular flow that could be taken as insults or just him delivering different. It's so nice after always having to hear Cena's fake yelling about how you don't want to make him angry. I like how they are showing Punk as a cool calculated heel, but I wish they'd also build him as close to impossible to beat. Imagine how much more threatening Nexus and Punk would appear if Punk just shredded people on his own, thus making Nexus the impossible element to overcome. And then when someone did beat him and the odds, it would actually deliver a big pop when the 13yr old's hero won. I'd love for Punk to win clean vs guys and THEN Nexus comes in and gang stomps the beaten face. The face misses a week or two to injury and comes back. I think that would add so much more week in and week out vs underselling and always making Nexus look weak.

I also really love how Miz just makes faces at the stupid PG insults he gets. Like last night when he did the fake laugh face at King's stupid insult. And a few weeks before how he made fun of Cena for his line.

I did like the tie in with Punk and Orton going back to '08.

Funny how he was a face then, and Orton was a heel. Now it's opposite, and the fans still cheer for Orton for what happened and boo'ed Punk.

Rumors that the Mania host is: The Rock.

Rumors that the Mania host is: The Rock.

Source : HFBoards - Sub Forum - Wrestling
:sarcasm:

Rumors that the Mania host is: The Rock.

He was definitely the first person that came to mind for me.

I'm going to assume it's Stone Cold, though. With Tough Enough coming, they might want him to host WM too. I hope it's Rock though.

It better not be something stupid like Bob Barker. :laugh:

It would be a disaster if they announced this tonight and the arena fills with boos. You would have to assume with the way Vince was talking people are expecting something huge like The Rock or Steve Austin.

Is the WM host being announced tonight? Sad to say that as it stands now, the guest host may be the best thing Wrestlemania's got going for it. How pathetic is that?

Is the WM host being announced tonight? Sad to say that as it stands now, the guest host may be the best thing Wrestlemania's got going for it. How pathetic is that?

Yeah, they're announcing it tonight.

Yeah, they're announcing it tonight.

I'm sticking with my guess from last week, it will be HHH.

If The Rock comes out, I'm going to get kicked out of my apartment I'm pretty sure.

I say Stone Cold and if it is there better be a lot of stunners tonight.

If The Rock comes out, I'm going to get kicked out of my apartment I'm pretty sure.

Even if it's The Rock, there's no guarantees he'll actually appear tonight. They might just announce it and show a video package or something.

Even if it's The Rock, there's no guarantees he'll actually appear tonight. They might just announce it and show a video package or something.

Still would likely be the best part of the show.

This was posted on The Rock's facebook page:

...FINALLY...

i hope the host is actually a host, and not pre-taped segments, whoever it may be

I love Bob Barker, but if he is the guest host it'll be a very, very disappointing one. However, it wouldn't shock me with the way the WWE has flubbed the past couple weeks. It had a good roll going into 2011 I thought.

It better be The Rock, if its someone like Justin ****in Bieber, I'm gon back on a hiatus from wrestling.

what are the chances of there being some silly in ring segments or backstage valentine days segments

It's going to be a huge letdown if it turns out to be anyone besides The Rock.

If it's not the Rock, I think we all need to come to the realization that The Rock is NEVER coming back at any significant capacity

what are the chances of there being some silly in ring segments or backstage valentine days segments

extremely high.

Great, now that i read the rock posts i'm too hyped, and in about 10mins im going to be EXTREMELY disappointed, aren't I?

*crosses fingers* Please be The Rock.

If it's not the Rock, I think we all need to come to the realization that The Rock is NEVER coming back at any significant capacity
He said he would come back for something big some day. Just not a match. So it's not him now, I wouldn't say that.

Stream?

Vince: And the guest host is...

J4PcREoQ5bY

Stream?

http://www.myp2pforum.eu/threads/52251-WWE-Raw-14th-Feb

Rapadoooooooooooooooooooo.

Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrretardo.

The 2 rock's 2 most hated people start off RAW, It's a sign! :laugh:

Spoiler: The WM guest host is:

XWMBnIFIaDI

Even though I'm a wrestling fan, if my girlfriend wanted to go to Raw on Valentine's Day, I would break up with her.

Cena's such a cheeseball.

Rocky chants from the crowd. :)

it amazes me that anyone likes cenas mic work

Rocky chants already.

Rocksolid... ;)

Looks like Punk got rid o those blonde "highlights"

Thank god :laugh:

Was there any point to any of that?

10 minutes in and they have to take a commercial break already.

Terrible mic work by Cena.

10 minutes in and they have to take a commercial break already.

There's always a been a commercial break at this point.

Bryce from Minnesota is going to be the guest host.

"JAWWWWNNNN CEEEEENNNNA!"

Whatever happened to that Atlanta Sports Fan? Haven't seen him around lately?

Hornswoggle has joined Nexus.

Punk winz Punk winz Punk winz Punk winz

A tiny wrench? Really? REALLY?? Really???

Poor Lawler. :( Maybe they'll give him the title now.

Did I hear that correctly, Lawler's mom died? :(

Poor Lawler. :( Maybe they'll give him the title now.

WWE changing plans because someone died? Not sure if serious.

Hopefully I don't have to bring up Over The Edge 1999.

WWE changing plans because someone died? Not sure if serious.

Hopefully I don't have to bring up Over The Edge 1999.
They gave Jarrett the IC title for that.

They gave Jarrett the IC title for that.

Jarrett was already a multi-time IC Champion when that happened. Lawler has never been WWE Champion and they sure won't have a really old man going into the biggest PPV of the year as champ. This isn't WCW.

Anton Del Rio! But we already knew that.

Del Rio!!

How do people get underneath the ring? Like, is there a hole underneath the floor or something? Or are they laying underneath the ring the entire night?

Lmao ADR strumming the air guitar.

....

La Parka in the front row.

Alberto is the future of the WWE

But you...









You already knew that.

Oh look, Mr.Ziggles is wearing a suit :sarcasm:

If Eddie was Latino Heat, Vickie is the Latina Heat Machine.

Vicki is so annoying and Edge blows. Why ruin a ADR segment for this crap?

do people really hate vickies character or just her performance? because i think her performance is terrible

Ugh, poor Mic work by Vickie. Taking the crowd out of it here at the end of her speech. Nobody cares. She isn't a heel she makes me turn the volume down and go surf different websites while barely paying attention to the stream.

natalias hotness is way underrated

obviously Undertaker, Undertaker is obvious

That's Taker

do people really hate vickies character or just her performance? because i think her performance is terrible

both.

How do people get underneath the ring? Like, is there a hole underneath the floor or something? Or are they laying underneath the ring the entire night?

Typically the arena goes dark before said match takes place and the person comes in and under the ring, or in this case, They were already under the ring before the show started.

How do people get underneath the ring? Like, is there a hole underneath the floor or something? Or are they laying underneath the ring the entire night?

Something similar to this? :sarcasm:

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they better not take the title off of Edge on Friday only to make him an 11 time champion come Sunday.

do people really hate vickies character or just her performance? because i think her performance is terrible

Has to be here performance. It's absolutely dreadful.

People can try to say she is doing her job by making you hate her, but she just makes me ignore the segment more then anything. Actual heels (Punk, Alberto) have me watching in on everything they do.

She can't work the Mic and her only asset is a terrible screetch.

Can't believe they wasted our time with yet another Taker comeback promo, he's only been gone like 2-3 months, and tonights promo blatantly gave it away.

Aww crap, I missed the taker promo? :cry:

Typically the arena goes dark before said match takes place and the person comes in and under the ring, or in this case, They were already under the ring before the show started.

I know it goes dark, but not pitch black. You can see people coming up and down the ramp if they're getting underneath the ring.

Not so fast there folks it sill could be Stinger too (99.9% chance it's not)

Undertaker was inside the cabin, while a man was outside approaching the cabin.

Has to be here performance. It's absolutely dreadful.

People can try to say she is doing her job by making you hate her, but she just makes me ignore the segment more then anything. Actual heels (Punk, Alberto) have me watching in on everything they do.

She can't work the Mic and her only asset is a terrible screetch.

SOmetimes it seems like people think shes an awesome heel. I just can't stand her because I don't think she has any business being on tv. She has no talent at anything the wrestling business requires a person have talent in.

Nattie getting hotter everyday.

I'd really appreciate it if Kong came out and dominated the the two in the match and the "Lumber Jills"

OMG WATCH OUT, SHE'S GOT A SHOE!!!! :laugh:

Nattie getting hotter everyday.

Trish is still better :p:

Lumberjills came out in wrestling gear alright...

Divas match without LayCool?

do people really hate vickies character or just her performance? because i think her performance is terrible

Vickie Guerrero segments need to have Al Bundy provide his colour commentary.

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I'm feeling they're saving Kong's debut for EC this Sunday.

SOmetimes it seems like people think shes an awesome heel. I just can't stand her because I don't think she has any business being on tv. She has no talent at anything the wrestling business requires a person have talent in.

She is just lucky one of the best wrestlers ever wanted to stick it in her or she'd be managing the kitchen at a Popeye's Chicken.

She is just lucky one of the best wrestlers ever wanted to stick it in her or she'd be managing the kitchen at a Popeye's Chicken.

She also didn't look like a leather bag when eddie was still alive.

LOL they just spoiled HHHs return on live tv

WTF was that

i hate movie previews on raw.

I'm Mr. Bradstone.



I'M THE CHAPERONE.

Good, get this turd off of Raw, Mark Henry still getting TV time is a shame.

It's a shameful thing, Lobsterhead

Looks like they forgot Miz never beat Bryan and are going to correct that.

WTF was that miz? :biglaugh:

Cole just dropped the "Longest Running Weekly..." line.

LOLOL Anyone else see Matthews facepalm when Cole was cheering?

Kill the wabbit...

I'm starting to like Josh Matthews.

Kill the wabbit

Vickie Guerrero segments need to have Al Bundy provide his colour commentary.

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H9dfREH95_M

:handclap:

Cole just dropped "the great one", even though he was referring to Miz. Subtle Rock hint?

this is why cole sucks. he frequenlty takes all attention off the match to play his heel character.

This match should be for the WWE championship.

And Bryan should win.

I'm a Miz fan but the slurping by Cole is extremely annoying.

That was a unique neckbreaker.

Was he supposed to take that off the ropes or what because ow.

Mitchell Cole was better as the nerdy backstage reporter who was constantly owned by likes of Rock and Jericho.

Mitchell Cole was better as the nerdy backstage reporter who was constantly owned by likes of Rock and Jericho.
He just never shuts up now.

He just never shuts up now.

I know he may be more annoying than Vicki.

Mitchell Cole was better as the nerdy backstage reporter who was constantly owned by likes of Rock and Jericho.

and Heidenreich...which was probably the only time he ever got a piece of ass.

why is half of rileys face red

WTF! ZOMG!!! Did we just witness a clean win by Miz?!?!?!?!?!

That may be his first as champ.

Miz is gonna show up at Lawler's mom's funeral and ride the casket.

Oh come on, why does Lawler's personal life have to be dragged into the script of the show? :shakehead

miz' mic work seems so much like kennedys

Nice makeup job on Morrison.

J-Mo teaming up with R-Botch?

haha commentary botch by cole

haha commentary botch by cole

What did he say?

mason ryan is worse than that dude who was tyson kidds bodyguard

I wasn't watching my TV for a few seconds and heard BREAK THE WALLS DOWN.....FUUUUUUUUUUUUU :cry:

Well, Since they are likely saving the guest revealing till the end of the night, we can HOPEFULLY assume that it's not some a-hole like justin bieber, even though he just signed a deal with wwe :shakehead

....yeah....

How old is this girl.

How old is this girl.

13 at most.

I give her credit for having more personality than I expected.

what are the chances of there being some silly in ring segments or backstage valentine days segments

Here it is LOL.

lol only The Rock/Jericho/Austin appearing can save this Raw now.

REGAL AND RYDER yesssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

What LOL

LOLOL Regal and WOO WOO WOO.


And lol at Maurice and Yoshi.

OK, Regal made it better.

"How did that guy get that girl?" :laugh:

Regal! :laugh:

lol Yoshi Tatsu


lol the candy fell out

....and Hornswaggle made it worse.

I don't care if you're a midget, the girl is 13.

Hornswoggle is a pedophile.

Regal made that segment.

So the host will be revealed last?

So the host will be revealed last?
Did you expect any less.

regal and ryder was funny, as well as tatsu

is maryse babyface now?

Straight up gangsta trippin?

Yeah, they just pretty much gave it away right there.

Thats definetely taker, but there's more to that promo than meets the eye.

Also, It's a shameful thing, lobsterhead.

its def undertaker

Oh great Sheamus gets to lose to Orton for the 50th time.

D-did orton just immitate stone cold?

Thats definetely taker, but there's more to that promo than meets the eye.

Indeed. I'm not convinced it's just Undertaker.

1st vignette: Dark figure walks to the house, goes up the steps.
2nd vignette: Figure goes into the house, all signs point to Undertaker.
3rd vignette: Shows Undertaker inside the house, lights go out, a figure is outside in the rain again all of a sudden.

I know this belongs on another thread, but remember another storyline that went nowhere; many months ago, Ranjin Singh was playing Great Khali like a fool for many weeks? Khali took a long hiatus and the two of them forgot all about their problems. Not that many people truly give a damn about Khali storylines, but I'm just sayin'.

Indeed. I'm not convinced it's just Undertaker.

1st vignette: Dark figure walks to the house, goes up the steps.
2nd vignette: Figure goes into the house, all signs point to Undertaker.
3rd vignette: Shows Undertaker inside the house, lights go out, a figure is outside in the rain again all of a sudden.

I'm going to have to watch it again, I didn't see someone outside the house again at the end.

I think its The Rock.

http://twitter.com/#!/TheRock/status/37352974292484096

I'm going to have to watch it again, I didn't see someone outside the house again at the end.

It basically looked like it was copied from the 1st vignette, but it seemed odd that they would have this sequence of events of Undertaker walking to the house, going inside the house, being shown inside the house, all of a sudden to have him (someone else?) outside in the rain again.

Cena cant even run like an athlete.

Batman and Robin strike again.

Swerve!

hahaha no Rock

Uhhh...so it's a woman?

"twitter just got rocked'...it's obviously not rock. :rant:

Wow a woman, of course the entire night is now a total disappointment, Who the **** is it going to be, stephanie? oh wow thats SO shocking! :shakehead

Swerve!

Ya that was definitely just to throw us off.


Because if its Stephanie we riot.

Uhhh...so it's a woman?

Steph? Or...Sarah Palin?

I'm going to have to watch it again, I didn't see someone outside the house again at the end.

He's right, there was someone outside of the house at the end of the clip.

I bet it will be Rock's agent or something making the announcement on his behalf. I'll pop if it's not Rock though

Or maybe Steph's going to announce it?

Well we can probably rule out Bob Barker.

Justin Bieber is still in the mix.

taker lol.

No...****ing way.......

Please somehow be The Rock....

Yes!

wooooooooooooooo

HOLY **** :amazed:

I'm not sure if the Rock is still over.

Oh My Goodness Gracious

Well we can probably rule out Bob Barker.

Feet were one of Barker's Beauty's maybe?

THE ROCK!!!! I told you! :yo: :yo:

WTF is with his remix theme? Oh who cares lol

They gave it away a little early on the titatron when they showed his tattoo on the (left?) side....which is why i said no ****ing way, but here he is! :handclap:

Looks like Rock got back on the roids.

I'm not sure if the Rock is still over.

Is the sun still bright?

this is different music.

Wasnt Vince Suppose To Annouce It?

Pop of the year, including last year.

****ing. Awesome.

Finallyyyyy......

I DON'T ****ING BELIEVE IT!!! :yo:

I marked out

Haha he actually looks teary eyed through his shades.

FINALLY! THE ROCK HAS COME BACK HOME :handclap:

He sounds different.

I'm markin out!

He forgot the Brahma Bull.