Jays Fire Tosca

What took so long?

Who knows, but better late than never.

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/news_story.asp?id=94125

This is as much JP's fault as it is Tosca's. It's hard to win the lottery when all you've got is one ticket. The Jays' bullpen was a joke, a lot of guys had seriously bad years, and JP only made it worse by not going out and fixing the problems.

This is as much JP's fault as it is Tosca's.

exactly but it's the least that he could do to help the team

this is a bad move, this season is not Tosca's fault,bunch of injuries happening to the offense, Halladay got hurt missed two starts, then is out 4-6 weeks, the bullpen been down right horrible, no thanks to JP, who's been trying to fill out the BP the same way for the last 2 years and it hasn't worked, im just glad Scott Cassidy is gone.

this makes no sense what so ever, tbhis is a young team and still learning, and Tosca is the right manager for the job, the jays are just going to get younger by next year

overall JP has done a good job, a few trades i didn't like, but i don't get this move one bit

this is a bad move, this season is not Tosca's fault,bunch of injuries happening to the offense, Halladay got hurt missed two starts, then is out 4-6 weeks, the bullpen been down right horrible, no thanks to JP, who's been trying to fill out the BP the same way for the last 2 years and it hasn't worked, im just glad Scott Cassidy is gone.

this makes no sense what so ever, tbhis is a young team and still learning, and Tosca is the right manager for the job, the jays are just going to get younger by next year

overall JP has done a good job, a few trades i didn't like, but i don't get this move one bit
JP has made some questionable moves, but Tosca was simply put incompetant, as was Martinez before him. Getting rid of Fregosi was a bad move.

this is easily the worst team i have seen the yankees destroy this season.

Firstbase coach John Gibbons is the new Manager.

This sucks, but I suppose they're running out of people to fire this season...

Tosca had is very difference team from what Fregosi, and Martinez had, i always liked Fregosi.

i guess you missed how JP re-stocked the jays farm system that Gord Ash left in a big @$$ mess to clean up
JP actually got a rotation who can pitch centered around Halladay (who Ash messed up), the bullpen been **** ever since 1996

JP actually got rid of high priced contracts, Mondesi anyone and some others that Ash gave or traded for

Tosca had is very difference team from what Fregosi, and Martinez had, i always liked Fregosi.

i guess you missed how JP re-stocked the jays farm system that Gord Ash left in a big @$$ mess to clean up
JP actually got a rotation who can pitch centered around Halladay (who Ash messed up), the bullpen been **** ever since 1996

JP actually got rid of high priced contracts, Mondesi anyone and some others that Ash gave or traded for

I think you're seriously under-rating Gord Ash in a lot of ways. Yes, he made some bad moves, but in terms of the Jays farm system, Ash did a solid job. Alex Rios for example was a Gord Ash pick. So was Vernon Wells. So was Roy Halladay. So was Orlando Hudson. Gabe Gross, Dustin McGowan, Josh Phelps, Jayson Werth...Ash's prospects. Gord Ash (similar to Ricciardi) had a great eye for talent. What he lacked was the asset management ability.

This is as much JP's fault as it is Tosca's. It's hard to win the lottery when all you've got is one ticket. The Jays' bullpen was a joke, a lot of guys had seriously bad years, and JP only made it worse by not going out and fixing the problems.
To be fair JP did go out and fix the problems that were present in the off-season but the lack of budget made it difficult to do anything once the season started and the budget was set.

Jays had the 3rd best offense last year, this year with the exact same lineup (except when guys were out due to injury) worst offense in MLB. How anyone could predict that I do not know. Last year the Jays big problem was pitching, both starters and bullpen. So last off-season JP acquired Lilly, Batista, Hentgen, De Los Santos, Ligtenberg, Speier, Frasor, Douglass and Adams. For a small market team like the Jays to be able to go out and get 9 MLB pitchers in one off-season is incredible, I dont know what else he could have done. Both Lilly and Batista have been terrific, as has Frasor and the Jays have one of the better starting rotations in the league this year. Unfortunatly the bullpen still sucks, and the offense collapsed.

Bye Tosca, I disagreed with a few of your managerial decisions while you were here and I thought you were terrible at managing the bullpen, but I still wish you all the best in the future.

and remember what happened to Roy Halladay, he was almost ruined, i forgot who was the manager of the time but they sent him down to A to re-work everything and they were lucky he came out of it.

Werth and Phelps is gone, i hated the trades, so don't get me wrong here, but werth got the jays Jason Frasor the current closer hopefully he won't turn into another Billy Koch or Escobar.

McGowan was close to ready but had Tommy John's and will take a lot of tiem to recover, remember Bob file and all that promise in 2001, that was ruined cuz of his throwing shoulder

Hudson always had his great defense, and a decent bat but can't hit from the right side.

Rios and Wells are the complete package, defense, speed, hitting, power, throwing arm, they're all there in those two, Rios was drafted was a 3B i remember the jays taking him.

Ash could never rebuild, Ash always wanted to reload no matter what and the team showed promise year after year but never could get 90 or more wins to actually compete for the wild card, they always had one big hot streak in May, June or July then fall in Augest.

and remember what happened to Roy Halladay, he was almost ruined, i forgot who was the manager of the time but they sent him down to A to re-work everything and they were lucky he came out of it.

Werth and Phelps is gone, i hated the trades, so don't get me wrong here, but werth got the jays Jason Frasor the current closer hopefully he won't turn into another Billy Koch or Escobar.

McGowan was close to ready but had Tommy John's and will take a lot of tiem to recover, remember Bob file and all that promise in 2001, that was ruined cuz of his throwing shoulder

Hudson always had his great defense, and a decent bat but can't hit from the right side.

Rios and Wells are the complete package, defense, speed, hitting, power, throwing arm, they're all there in those two, Rios was drafted was a 3B i remember the jays taking him.

Ash could never rebuild, Ash always wanted to reload no matter what and the team showed promise year after year but never could get 90 or more wins to actually compete for the wild card, they always had one big hot streak in May, June or July then fall in Augest.

My point, which remains, is that Ash is a very good evaluator of talent. Yes, Halladay had some problems. Those were on the field and I can't figure out how Ash was responsible for those problems. It's like blaming the Cardinals GM of the time for Rich Ankiel's problems. Ash still scouted, drafted and stuck with Halladay, who was at one time one of the top prospects in baseball, and then after Ash's firing, became the best pitcher in the AL in 2003. I see little reason why Riccardi should get the credit for Halladay's success. Tosca and the rest of the coaching staff ok, but it was Ash and not Ricciardi who got Halladay into the organization.

Werth and Phelps are gone. JP's deals, but Ash's young talent. Phelps has proven he can hit in the bigs, but he's had a couple bad years...still very talented. Werth is playing fantastic baseball for the Dodgers. That was a great win-win deal, but Ash gets the credit for dealing John Bale (ya...) for Werth in 2000.

Hudson was a 43rd round pick. That's impressive scouting.

McGowan again, was a great pick. Can't blame Ash for the shoulder.

My point is that Ash and Riccardi are both very good drafters who know how to find good young talent. Ash proved he was incapable of translating that into success in the majors. So far, I'm not sure Ricciardi's proving much better.

About damn time but in his defense the Jays have been devastated by injuries this season. And he has had no bullpen to work with. But that aside a new face is definately needed to finish this season and going to next year.

If they were gunna let this guy go, why not do it in May?

If they were gunna let this guy go, why not do it in May?

Because they were getting killed with injuries all year long, and JP wanted to give Tosca time to get Wells and Delgado back and see how they would play when half way healthy before he axed him. Unfortunately for Tosca, they still sucked.

Excellent. Finally this move happens.

It seemed that for the past few months, Tosca has been managing to keep his job, rather then managing for the better part of the future of the Jays franchise. To me he seemed completely personally motivated. Thus why Menechino kept seing playing time over Orlando Hudson, or why Josh Phelps found himself on the bench game after game in the place of even Chris Gomez. I can understand the concept of wanting to win, but at this point in the season, it really doesn't matter anymore. Sure you want to win, but you also want to get Hudson more at bats against lefties in order for him to work on improving, or Phelps getting playing time (before being dealt of course).

Tosca also just couldnt manage a bullpen. He just never seemed to find it. And although it's not his fault that guys like Lightenberg, Adams or Speier (well not lately but beginning of the year), just haven't pitched well. It seemed that Tosca just didnt have a feel for managing that part of the game. He'd leave guys in to long who clearly didn't have their A game that day. Or he'd pull guys too early to try and work match ups even though that pitcher was definitely on. When you have a struggling bullpen, you have to go with whats working.

While I think that Tosca isn't really a bad manager. I do think that he had lost touch with this ballclub and it was the right call to make.

Come on Paul Molitor!

I think JP's done a great job with the rotation.

Doc Lilly and Batista is a legit major league rotation. Bush and Towers (if they hold up) shouldn't be bad as 4th and 5th starters either.

The bullpen was supposed to be good this year. Unfortunately, Adams, Lightmeup, and SPEIRE have stunk up the joint.

Speier is awesome in MVP 2004!

I think you're seriously under-rating Gord Ash in a lot of ways. Yes, he made some bad moves, but in terms of the Jays farm system, Ash did a solid job. Alex Rios for example was a Gord Ash pick. So was Vernon Wells. So was Roy Halladay. So was Orlando Hudson. Gabe Gross, Dustin McGowan, Josh Phelps, Jayson Werth...Ash's prospects. Gord Ash (similar to Ricciardi) had a great eye for talent. What he lacked was the asset management ability.

Ash was a great GM, when he had the money to spend. IMO, his top skill was not putting together a low budget competitive team, which Riccardi was brought in to do, and he has done quite well. Though this year's performance doesn't really support that theory.

I think Tosca doesn't know how to get this team going, and he doesn't know how to use the bullpen, so its no surprise. He did amazing things last year, but this year, just couldn't get them motivated.

Who's next? I hope they fare better. Not being much of a baseball fan since I quit playing competitively, I'm only really interested when the Jays are fairing well.

Getting rid of Fregosi was a bad move.

Getting rid of Fregosi is always a good move.

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Primer owns all lol

Speier is awesome in MVP 2004!


I had 45 saves with him and won the reliever award.

Speier is awesome in MVP 2004!

When you get the slider and fork going he's unstoppable. :yo:

The 2-seamer is great too.. lotsa movement on that one.