I read somewhere that he didn't even know the Wild were a NHL team before he got drafted. He always wanted to play for Vancouver growing up

Haha, that's BS. Ofc he knew about Minnesota Wild, even my mum know :laugh:

I worry about things like my kids and my elderly father. ;)

Don't worry.......Be happy!

Everyone will be talking about Granlund's tremendous training camp at this time next year.

I read somewhere that he didn't even know the Wild were a NHL team before he got drafted. He always wanted to play for Vancouver growing up
Wasn't that actually Koivu when he was drafted in 2001? I recall him making such a quote back then. Of course, back then it would make sense considering the Wild had only played 1 season at that point.

Where has this whole thing about him not signing with the wild come from?! He speaks very dearly of the wild and has good relationship with Koivu. He seems to be extremely excited about the organization.

There's absolutely 0% chance the kid pulls of a "Lindros".

Oh the Wild fans... :laugh:

Where has this whole thing about him not signing with the wild come from?! He speaks very dearly of the wild and has good relationship with Koivu. He seems to be extremely excited about the organization.

There's absolutely 0% chance the kid pulls of a "Lindros".

Oh the Wild fans... :laugh:

Hey now... just because there are two fans that have brought up the issue doesn't mean there is a real worry amongst most/all Wild fans! I'm not worried at all!

BTW i completely made up that factoid about hearing Granlund not knowing the Wild existed.

I thought it went without saying but...

Hey now... just because there are two fans that have brought up the issue doesn't mean there is a real worry amongst most/all Wild fans! I'm not worried at all!

likewise, no way in hell that happens....you wouldn't like Kaptain when he's angry

BTW i completely made up that factoid about hearing Granlund not knowing the Wild existed.

I thought it went without saying but...
So people can lie on the internet?
http://callitaweasel.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/simpsons_angry_mob.png

BTW i completely made up that factoid about hearing Granlund not knowing the Wild existed.

I thought it went without saying but...

:laugh: It's actually pretty scary how easy it is to start crazy rumors on the internet. I can imagine this:

(fast forward a couple of years)
reporter: "Only 5 years ago you didn't even know that Minnesota Wild existed? How does it feel to be the face of the franchise now?"
MG: ... <WTF?! Where did that come from?!>

Well, we all know... :laugh:

He most likely wanted to complete his contract with HIFK before signing a new one. I hope.

:laugh: It's actually pretty scary how easy it is to start crazy rumors on the internet. I can imagine this:

(fast forward a couple of years)
reporter: "Only 5 years ago you didn't even know that Minnesota Wild existed? How does it feel to be the face of the franchise now?"
MG: ... <WTF?! Where did that come from?!>

Well, we all know... :laugh:

Someone needs to shop MG:s face in this:

http://i51.tinypic.com/2e6h2ev.jpg

Mikael has an assist today, 1st round still
http://www.sm-liiga.fi/ottelut/raportti/37003.html
E: they took it off

Mikael has an assist today, 1st round still
http://www.sm-liiga.fi/ottelut/raportti/37003.html
E: they took it off

No points for Granlund but he has probably been the most physical player on the ice in the first period. He's hitting everything that moves! :laugh: He is able to throw quite impressive hits despite his size.

Cuz he's the Finnish Crosby.

Ok NOW he has an assist. 5-0

Ville Peltonen is awesome.

If the assist is the only one Mikael will get in this game, he'd have 1+5=6 in his first 3 games. If he stays healthy, he has legitimate change to get 70 points this year. It's quite impressive since it'd be like 3rd time someone's got that many points in 10 years or so.

There's still 1 period to go and the way the HIFK-nr.1 line has clicked it wouldn't be a shocker if he added some points.

Probably will see pretty limited ice time on the 3rd tho.. The game is pretty much over.

is their a stream to watch?

is their a stream to watch?

Nah its practically impossible to find a FEL stream, dunno really why.

mg 0+2

Another assist for Granlund, 6-0

Has heard of these goal-things? I heard they're all the rage these days... :sarcasm:

I was just looking at the Wild 2011-2012 Team Guide you can download at Wild.com, and it had a section called "Future Wild." Lo and behold, there was Granlund, wearing Wild kit to boot. You can't get more definitive proof than that! :yo:

Granlund possibly injured. Took a big hit and left the ice

Granlund possibly injured. Took a big hit and left the ice
No!!!!!!!!!!

I'm reading a finnish board GDT and they don't seem overly worried. He was checking his hand right after leaving the ice. Also hit his head against the boards apparently

No!!!!!!!!!!

WWaLxFIVX1s

Ruh roh.

Hopefully it's not serious and they just wanted him off the ice for good in a blowout. Hoping for no concussion, he doesn't need that type of history following him around...

My twitter feed implied that it was pretty minor looking. He held/checked his hand while going to the locker room.

Yea hope he's alright! We don't need any more prospects getting injured

The coach believes its nothing serious. Sorry for the drama

Damn. Hope he isn't injured...

And it's now 1+6=7 in 3 games so far.

Noooo! :(

Please be ok next game and put up 3 assists. Let's hope he contineus this pace :D

Injured AND he doesn't want to come play for the Wild? Let's trade him quick! :scared:

:sarcasm:

A reporter of a Finnish Sports magazine (Urheilulehti) thinks that Granlund is too good to play in Sm-Liiga, and that he should be immediatelly send to NHL. :D

A2dGZSBmUo4

Don't worry Granlund, by the time you get over here Clutterbuck, Powe, Bulmer and Gillies will all be able to stick up for ya and knock people the **** out if that happens.

And it didn't look to serious. Got worried the first time I saw it, thinking his head got mashed between the boards and an elbow but it looks like he simply smashed his hand. Surely that hurts, but I don't know if it would be bad enough to drop a glove and go to the bench?

A reporter of a Finnish Sports magazine (Urheilulehti) thinks that Granlund is too good to play in Sm-Liiga, and that he should be immediatelly send to NHL. :D

ES basicly only writes that because its their magazine's way to gather readership and clicks from news portals. Provocation/extreme opinions. And no he really doesn't think MG should be send to NHL and knows its impossible. In his opinion MG won't develope in FEL if he dominates like this. Which may be partly true.

Man those gold helmets are ridiculous.

Hope he's alright. A busted up top hand can end your season pretty quick (see Heatley last year).

ES basicly only writes that because its their magazine's way to gather readership and clicks from news portals. Provocation/extreme opinions. And no he really doesn't think MG should be send to NHL and knows its impossible. In his opinion MG won't develope in FEL if he dominates like this. Which may be partly true.

I know that very well. I posted it just for fun, it wasn't really a serious post.



Hopefully Granlund is okay, 7 points in 3 games is a crazy pace.

I know that very well. I posted it just for fun, it wasn't really a serious post.



Hopefully Granlund is okay, 7 points in 3 games is a crazy pace.

140 pts pace :sarcasm:

Raports say that he "did whatever he wanted" on the ice today. He's dominating the FEL. Man, and I was worried about him because he played one bad pre-season game :D

...
Provocation/extreme opinions. And no he really doesn't think MG should be send to NHL and knows its impossible.
...

To be honest, I'm not so sure about that. Seppänen is the biggest MG fanboy out there...

Granlund has been amazing this season. He just needs to get bigger and stronger so that he won't get overpowered as easily as in that situation. Mikael obviously isn't afraid to go to the high-traffic areas - and I love it - but sometimes he needs to be a little more careful and aware. He's still a pretty small and light player.

Watching those highlights, he likes to draw defenders to him with his speed and then move the puck to an open man. Seemed like they were just hopelessly chasing him and getting out of position. Was that team in orange just plain bad or is he that much better than everyone else?

What "raports"? Only two assists in this game and the other one of them was secondary, nothing like a contribution. He's made only one goal in three games and that is a problem. He's no goal scorer (except in SO).Guess he is too slow for that. The lack of speed and intensity are serious weaknesses, specially for a small player like him. This hype is just ridicilous. I am afraid that he will turn out as a total bust in NHL, red flags are there. He isn't that dominant player even in FEL. It is hard to see how he could compensate the lack of speed by "vision" and really be a big name in NHL once. Probably he ends up playing in Europe after a short visit in NA. Hope I am wrong but I just don't see any reason to believe otherwise. Well, I just don't get it.

What "raports"? Only two assists in this game and the other one of them was secondary, nothing like a contribution. He's made only one goal in three games and that is a problem. He's no goal scorer (except in SO).Guess he is too slow for that. The lack of speed and intensity are serious weaknesses, specially for a small player like him. This hype is just ridicilous. I am afraid that he will turn out as a total bust in NHL, red flags are there. He isn't that dominant player even in FEL. It is hard to see how he could compensate the lack of speed by "vision" and really be a big name in NHL once. Probably he ends up playing in Europe after a short visit in NA. Hope I am wrong but I just don't see any reason to believe otherwise. Well, I just don't get it.

trolled?
One post and your first thing to say is that? This must be a troll. I mean, seriously? He's plenty fast and I suppose you didn't even watch the game

[QUOTE=Loffer;36964885]What "raports"? Only two assists in this game and the other one of them was secondary, nothing like a contribution. He's made only one goal in three games and that is a problem. He's no goal scorer (except in SO).Guess he is too slow for that. The lack of speed and intensity are serious weaknesses, specially for a small player like him. This hype is just ridicilous. I am afraid that he will turn out as a total bust in NHL, red flags are there. He isn't that dominant player even in FEL. It is hard to see how he could compensate the lack of speed by "vision" and really be a big name in NHL once. Probably he ends up playing in Europe after a short visit in NA. Hope I am wrong but I just don't see any reason to believe otherwise. Well, I just don't get it.[/QU

:shakehead:shakehead:

You sir have obviously never played hockey before. Goal-scoring isn't everything and isn't all that hard to learn how to do. Look at Sidney Crosby at a similiar young age. (In no way am I saying Granlund will be on Crosby's level.) However, you can't teach vision. Vision is arguably more important than anything else becaise as long as you can skate even somewhat well...good vision will make you an above average hockey player. Skating does help, but it's not neccasarily everything. If you can change speeds well and are strong on your edges that is all that really matters. Sure, top end speed is nice to have and is almost unfair not many players have it. Granlund is by no means a great skater, but he is also not bad and has been getting better. The kid isn't even 20 and he is DOMINATING in a league of men. To be averaging more than 2 points a game at such a young age in no way is a red flag. It's preposterous to even suggest that he is not having his way on the ice right now. He has Datsuykian like vision....well maybe not, but he has an incredible knack for protecting the puck and setting up his teammates for great looks.

Granlund is the REAL deal.

I agree, he's a scrub. Probably why the Wild haven't signed him.

Watching those highlights, he likes to draw defenders to him with his speed and then move the puck to an open man. Seemed like they were just hopelessly chasing him and getting out of position. Was that team in orange just plain bad or is he that much better than everyone else?

Tappara was, and is just bad. One of the bottom feeders this season.

Granlund possibly injured. Took a big hit and left the ice
There goes next season!

No trolling. I am just a little bit disappointed after initial excitement about this talent (due to "lacrosse scoop"). I have watched all the highlights and related stuff many times and as far as I can see he is good in PP, shootouts (smooth Forsberg move) and skilled enough to be good on European level of hockey but he lacks all that flashy aspect of game typical to all imposing players and goal scorers. I just don't see that NHL star potential in him. I would be more thrilled about, say, Sami Vatanen in this regards.

Well the whole skating in the dirty areas to draw defenders and then making passes right on the tape says he should have some success in NA. If all he was doing was dangling and making lacrosse moves I'd be worried.

Well, I just don't get it.

Just 1 goal in 3 games!! That's horrible! Yeah, you just don't get it :laugh:

Well, it's obviously trolling but I'll answer the argument you put out here because I know that kind of thinking exists. Granlund is a faster than average skater nowadays. Lack of intensity? What the hell? He's one of the most passionate and fearsome hockeyplayer I've seen in person.

For me it'd be a huge disappointment if he doesn't make it in the NHL. He looks like a surebet right now, the skills he has are exceptional in many ways. He has always taken "the next step" when he has had to, from juniors to men's league at the age of 17, from fairly good men's league to international games at the age of 19 (PPG-player against NHL-level players).

"Raports" of that game: forum-posts on Jatkoaika.com, journalists of various medias... You know, points aren't the whole game.

No trolling. I am just a little bit disappointed after initial excitement about this talent (due to "lacrosse scoop"). I have watched all the highlights and related stuff many times and as far as I can see he is good in PP, shootouts (smooth Forsberg move) and skilled enough to be good on European level of hockey but he lacks all that flashy aspect of game typical to all imposing players and goal scorers. I just don't see that NHL star potential in him. I would be more thrilled about, say, Sami Vatanen in this regards.

1) You're just watching higlights

2) He's scored 7 points in 3 games which is 2,33 points/game

3) He's been a beast overall, throwing hits, stealing pucks, giving great passes, scoring 2 goals (one touched a players jersey on the way, I count that as his goal)

4) How can you make that assessment that he's good only for european hockey by just watching highlights?

5) You're just watching highlights

6) jesus

Thing for me why im not so high on him atm is that he seems too good to be true and im thinking all the time: where's the catcH? Finnish high-end talent? ROFL gtfo! :D

If you compare MG's style and outlook to such "mediocre" young Russian players like Kabanov or Burmistrov (# 8 th pick 2010), you see my point. Just watch some youtube videos. Those talents are imposing players with tremendous skill set and speed compared to MG's inferior skills and speed. You can see it instantly watching short clips of their moves and skating. Granlund lacks that flashy aspect and thus capability to score goals on the highest level of the game. Yet, Burmistrov totalled only 20 points (6 g + 14 a) during his rookie season. A relatively modest figure given the obvious talent. So, what to expect from Granlund in his rookie season as a 2 nd line center (i assume)? Hardly more than that. PPG in his prime would be pretty optimistic expectation. I just cannot see that MG could make it in the NHL. Obviously this last step from Europe to NA is a little too big to take given his limitations and weaknesses.

Just watch some youtube videos.

This is getting ridiculous.

If you compare MG's style and outlook to such "mediocre" young Russian players like Kabanov or Burmistrov (# 8 th pick 2010), you see my point. Just watch some youtube videos. Those talents are imposing players with tremendous skill set and speed compared to MG's inferior skills and speed. You can see it instantly watching short clips of their moves and skating. Granlund lacks that flashy aspect and thus capability to score goals on the highest level of the game. Yet, Burmistrov totalled only 20 points (6 g + 14 a) during his rookie season. A relatively modest figure given the obvious talent. So, what to expect from Granlund in his rookie season as a 2 nd line center (i assume)? Hardly more than that. PPG in his prime would be pretty optimistic expectation. I just cannot see that MG could make it in the NHL. Obviously this last step from Europe to NA is a little too big to take given his limitations and weaknesses.
There is more to hockey than short clips. Granlund is putting up numbers in SM-Liiga as an 18 and 19 year-old which no one has and has held his own against NHLers in the World Championships. Can he bust? Yes. But I'm happy with his development and growth as a player.

If you compare MG's style and outlook to such "mediocre" young Russian players like Kabanov or Burmistrov (# 8 th pick 2010), you see my point. Just watch some youtube videos. Those talents are imposing players with tremendous skill set and speed compared to MG's inferior skills and speed. You can see it instantly watching short clips of their moves and skating. Granlund lacks that flashy aspect and thus capability to score goals on the highest level of the game. Yet, Burmistrov totalled only 20 points (6 g + 14 a) during his rookie season. A relatively modest figure given the obvious talent. So, what to expect from Granlund in his rookie season as a 2 nd line center (i assume)? Hardly more than that. PPG in his prime would be pretty optimistic expectation. I just cannot see that MG could make it in the NHL. Obviously this last step from Europe to NA is a little too big to take given his limitations and weaknesses.

Flash is nice, but there have been many players with high hockey IQ, vision, hands, all attributes that describe Granlund, who have had massive careers, while many a flash guy end up on the Robby Shremp/Nikolai Zherdev dustheap of flops.

The boy has yet to turn 20. What kind of player will he be at 26?

so hard not to post troll arguments in that Granlund/RNH thread. So very hard. The irony is neck deep in there.

No trolling. I am just a little bit disappointed after initial excitement about this talent (due to "lacrosse scoop"). I have watched all the highlights and related stuff many times and as far as I can see he is good in PP, shootouts (smooth Forsberg move) and skilled enough to be good on European level of hockey but he lacks all that flashy aspect of game typical to all imposing players and goal scorers. I just don't see that NHL star potential in him. I would be more thrilled about, say, Sami Vatanen in this regards.
Guess there's at least one person out there who thinks similarly to the way I do about Granlund. I really don't see the star potential either. Just a "really good" potential instead, which he will probably attain. I see more of a complementary player rather than the catalyst. He's not a guy I would pin a franchise's hopes to, but he's a nice piece to it.

Who's said he's going to be star in this league? I don't think any Wild fan has stated as much. Nor have I seen anyone go above and beyond the hope for him that you just laid out...

Who's said he's going to be star in this league? I don't think any Wild fan has stated as much. Nor have I seen anyone go above and beyond the hope for him that you just laid out...
"Star potential" and "going to be a star" are two different things.

The way the Wild fan base has talked up Granlund on HF, "star potential" is certainly in play for some posters, even if it hasn't been specifically said.

"Star potential" and "going to be a star" are two different things.

The way the Wild fan base has talked up Granlund on HF, "star potential" is certainly in play for some posters, even if it hasn't been specifically said.

you are absolutely correct. Look no further than the threads concerned with HF prospect grades. Still, he does have the potential (based on his play, taking into account relative age/competition vs most prospects out there right now) so what's wrong with clinging to the idea?

Shocker here. Some members of a fan base wants their top prospect to hit his absolute top end potential. Please.

Loffer you do realize the higher the level you get to the less being flashy works. Get to the net and the high traffic areas and protect the puck. Combine that with good vision and you have yourself a potential star. You don't need to "dangle" around 3 guys...you will be a lot more successful if you just pass to the open guy or put a shot on net instead of trying to be a one-man-team.

There aren't very many Ovechkins and Datsuyks in the league who can just walk around everyone like it's no big deal. I don't think anyone is claiming that Granlund will be a 100 point player or anything. However, I do think 25 goals 55 assists seasons will be plentiful. (That is combined with great 2-way play.)

Superstar? No. Star. For sure.

If you compare MG's style and outlook to such "mediocre" young Russian players like Kabanov or Burmistrov (# 8 th pick 2010), you see my point. Just watch some youtube videos. Those talents are imposing players with tremendous skill set and speed compared to MG's inferior skills and speed. You can see it instantly watching short clips of their moves and skating. Granlund lacks that flashy aspect and thus capability to score goals on the highest level of the game. Yet, Burmistrov totalled only 20 points (6 g + 14 a) during his rookie season. A relatively modest figure given the obvious talent. So, what to expect from Granlund in his rookie season as a 2 nd line center (i assume)? Hardly more than that. PPG in his prime would be pretty optimistic expectation. I just cannot see that MG could make it in the NHL. Obviously this last step from Europe to NA is a little too big to take given his limitations and weaknesses.

This is quite an interesting argument actually. I agree about your observation: Granlund does not possess that most eye catching flashy aspect in his skill set or skating like, say, Ovechkin has. What he does possess is vision and sense of the game at the absolute highest level. He also has very smooth hands, respectable skating stride and willingness to play the physical game too.

How does this show on the practical level? It shows in his progression: Granlund has always made the jump to higher competition very early, and there were always people who were sure he wouldn't succeed at the next level, due to those perceived weaknesses that you brought up. But it never happened. From juniors to SM-liiga, from SM-liiga to World Championships he has never looked out of place. On the contrary, when facing tougher competition and higher stakes in the playoffs and tournaments, he even steps his game up. This is a proof of his great hockey mind: he simply knows how to play the game, it comes naturally to him, he is never overwhelmed. He makes passes that you have never seen before, he draws defenders into him and dishes the puck to the exact right spot, he slows the game down and waits until there is the perfect passing lane, he skates into areas others don't and creates plays no one even thought of.

Unfortunately I never got to see Gretzky playing in his prime. But all the material I have seen of him and read about him brings up a similar quality: despite never being physically impressive or flashy in his skillset, he did things on the ice no one else even thought about. Goals and passes that left you wondering what just happened. Granlund has this exact same quality. I cringe bringing up the Great One's name in this discussion, because it's unfair to compare anyone to him. Granlund will not break his records. But there is this similarity about them that just can't be ignored.

Other thing why I have so much faith in Granlund is his burning desire to improve, improve in all aspects of his game. Watching his interviews and the way he carries himself just oozes of that perfectionist flame, hunger of becoming the best player he can be. He is very humble and first to admit there are many things he can improve, but he's also very determined and passionate, in his reserved way. The combination of that silent strength and pure joy of playing is what will make him one of the greats. Only thing that can possibly hold him down is injury. Other than that I am thrilled and confident to see him make his mark in this league.

Probably shouldn't be throwing Gretzky's name out there. But other than that, I enjoyed reading the opinion. :laugh:

Guess there's at least one person out there who thinks similarly to the way I do about Granlund. I really don't see the star potential either. Just a "really good" potential instead, which he will probably attain. I see more of a complementary player rather than the catalyst. He's not a guy I would pin a franchise's hopes to, but he's a nice piece to it.

A "really good" player would be more than enough for me out of a 9th overall pick. However, when you hear things like, "he's doing things that nobody has ever done", it's hard not to raise expectations just a little bit. I don't expect every prospect to reach their potential, but that's not to say we can't get excited about what he's doing.

Am I the only one who sees actual superstar potential in Mikael Granlund? Sure, he's not the flashiest kid on the block, but he has plenty of time to improve his wheels, his vision is top notch and the kid can pass like a pro. But most importantly, he has the rare ability to turn games around. He is the clutch, the one who makes the important play when team's down, the one who scores a god damn lacrosse scoop on World Championship semi finals - against Russia - when everyone else was worried about Arthyukin. Hell, I ain't fan of IFK, in fact I support one of their main rivals (Espoo Blues) but watching the games live where MG plays, there isn't anyone on our team who can rival him. And you know what? Being next to Ville Peltonen is one of the greatest places he can be in.

Point production? Plenty. Watch it. I reckon he can go 35-60 or even more during his career peak.

He definately is lucky to get traded by Wild... almost quaranteed top 6 minutes for him.

Like Fins do, they play when the games matter(selanne not included) so im not so sure that he is going to raise any eyebrows until playoffs, but when you see him in stanley cup playoffs im pretty sure it's the place where he will make name for himself.

I just comeback from work and saw that Granlund took a big hit and left the ice. Any news about a possible injury?

I see star potential. Yeah, I said it. Kid is that good. He's a winner.

I just comeback from work and saw that Granlund took a big hit and left the ice. Any news about a possible injury?

Supposedly he should be alright. MTV3.fi is reporting head injuries on it's front page but the article itself mentions nothing about it, and head coach Petri Matikainen says "I don't think he's injured", and continued "There was nothing criminal about the check, he (MG) was a little careless, that's all".

Wild need to hurry up and trade granlund it seems thats the only thing that will stop him being put down, he'll go from a fringe grinder if he's lucky to the best player in the world in a matter of minutes.

btw people his laccrose goal isn't just pretty watch the damn video watch him win a battle in the corner, watch him make a move on a dman below the goal line, watch him in a split second decide to roof it and pull it off yeah its not that easy at least not as easy as he made it look.

this guy at worst will be a decent number 2 center due to his vision and two way play, if he booms he's going to be a superstar center, and btw it takes more the OMGNUMBERZ to win a game, ask your self who would you rather take, Krejci who dominated the playoffs helped his team win the cup or the Sister who dived? one had numbers one didn't.

my...brain. it burns.

Found the hit...

pw8fU3HfCKE

Found the hit...

pw8fU3HfCKE

Doesn't look that bad.

His reaction seemed to be more upset with himself than anything else.

Hell, I ain't fan of IFK, in fact I support one of their main rivals (Espoo Blues) but watching the games live where MG plays, there isn't anyone on our team who can rival him.

I agree with everything you said, and one thing that's funny; I'm not an IFK fan either but at the moment I rather watch their game because of Granlund, even though I'm pretty excited about my own young team (Ilves) as well. We're not going to see a player of MG's caliber in this league for a long time after this season, so I want to see as many games from him that I possibly can.

Well a lot of those same superlatives could be said about Crosby...vision, desire to win, hard work and self improvement...just saying. I think he could be a superstar too but the MN pessimist combined with the anti-MN prospect attitude of these boards tempers things for me.

He definately is lucky to get traded by Wild... almost quaranteed top 6 minutes for him.

Like Fins do, they play when the games matter(selanne not included) so im not so sure that he is going to raise any eyebrows until playoffs, but when you see him in stanley cup playoffs im pretty sure it's the place where he will make name for himself.

:laugh:

Granlund has been very impressive lately, I'm really looking forward to when he goes to NA.

Didn't look bad, MG remember keeping your head up and focus all the time...

One Finnish sport magazine shouted loud that MG shouldn't be playing in SM-Liiga anymore. He is too good to stay here and his development don't go up here anymore.

Didn't look bad, MG remember keeping your head up and focus all the time...

One Finnish sport magazine shouted loud that MG shouldn't be playing in SM-Liiga anymore. He is too good to stay here and his development don't go up here anymore.

Yeah, Urheilulehti did, but the writer (Esko Seppänen) might be even more biased than anyone of us.

In Finland these news and reports of MG on and off the ice are just too funny sometimes...

Like this one... very important news:

http://www.iltalehti.fi/jaakiekko/2011092314443965_jk.shtml

The title "Granlund is recovering here" and then the pic of the hotel where he is staying. :laugh:

There's also some news that MG might not play today...doesn't sound good...hopefully nothing bad.

it didn't look bad, and the fact that he might not play today isn't too worrying for me tbh.
IMO they are just making sure, because of his history, that he will be 100% in the next few days before returning. Which I think is ok.

Oh and the RNh vs Granlund thread, oh god please no..

He definately is lucky to get traded by Wild... almost quaranteed top 6 minutes for him.

Like Fins do, they play when the games matter(selanne not included) so im not so sure that he is going to raise any eyebrows until playoffs, but when you see him in stanley cup playoffs im pretty sure it's the place where he will make name for himself.

Pretty hard statement on a guy that is all time leader in Olympic Hockey points.

But for the man on the topic. Hope he did not get badly injured. Heard that he is not playing tonight?

Pretty hard statement on a guy that is all time leader in Olympic Hockey points.

But for the man on the topic. Hope he did not get badly injured. Heard that he is not playing tonight?

Yup. He wasn't skating with the team in the morning practise and he's not marked in the roster. Petteri Wirtanen is replacing him in the first line.

They are just being precautionary, but this still worries me. This is exactly how it started last year, didn't seem so bad at first, but he ended up being out with a concussion for a couple of months. :help: Hope that's not the case this time.

Granlund would be safer playing in the NHL rinks... these european rinks don't protect players as good. Jokerit Helsinki is atm the only european club with safer NHL style rink.

Oh please not this again..

It started exactly like this last year.

He definately is lucky to get traded by Wild... almost quaranteed top 6 minutes for him.

Like Fins do, they play when the games matter(selanne not included) so im not so sure that he is going to raise any eyebrows until playoffs, but when you see him in stanley cup playoffs im pretty sure it's the place where he will make name for himself.

:facepalm: my bad. What I meant was that old geezer racks up points even when games doesn't count.

Any more news on Granlunds injury?

Like I said, i'm not worried about MGs injury, ofcourse it's too similar like last year.
But all the coaches has said that it's only better to be safe than sorry and thats why he didn't play last game, that it's nothing serious.

And HIFKs next game is next weeks friday so he will have time to get better now. I'm sure he will play next friday :)

In Finland these news and reports of MG on and off the ice are just too funny sometimes...

Like this one... very important news:

http://www.iltalehti.fi/jaakiekko/2011092314443965_jk.shtml

The title "Granlund is recovering here" and then the pic of the hotel where he is staying. :laugh:

There's also some news that MG might not play today...doesn't sound good...hopefully nothing bad.

Did anyone read Iltalehti/Ilta-Sanomat today? Either one had a weird headline about Granlund "disappearing". :laugh:

Would just want to know what was the article about.

Did anyone read Iltalehti/Ilta-Sanomat today? Either one had a weird headline about Granlund "disappearing". :laugh:

Would just want to know what was the article about.

http://www.iltalehti.fi/jaakiekko/2011092614455707_jk.shtml this one?

sounds concerning.. the article says the head coach said "were going day by day (in regards to Granlunds injury)..other than that I can't comment" ... that doesn't sound good since it was supposed to be nothing at all and if it was then you'd think they'd say that..

According to HIFK GM Tom Nybondas, MG did not suffer from a concussion, but a whiplash injury. Therefor he won't be able to train with the rest of the team for now.

The team released a statement that it's an mild injury. Spraing in the neck/whiplash or something. NOT a concussion.

http://www.iltalehti.fi/jaakiekko/2011092614455707_jk.shtml this one?

sounds concerning.. the article says the head coach said "were going day by day (in regards to Granlunds injury)..other than that I can't comment" ... that doesn't sound good since it was supposed to be nothing at all and if it was then you'd think they'd say that..

Don't think so, maybe it was only on the actual magazine. Doesn't really matter, as it probably was just something useless crap, based on nothing but rumors and false implications.

Good to hear though that it's not a concussion.

Don't think so, maybe it was only on the actual magazine. Doesn't really matter, as it probably was just something useless crap, based on nothing but rumors and false implications.

Good to hear though that it's not a concussion.

Not to be paranoid, but it mite be a bluff.

Not to be paranoid, but it mite be a bluff.

Could be, but it would fit into the picture well... let's just believe in it.

Granlund was able to practise on ice with the team today. Chances are that he'll play on friday, too, so everything seems to be fine.

Yep, and he's not concussed, either. He apparently just strained his neck.

Is Granlund likely to play in the NHL this year?

Is Granlund likely to play in the NHL this year?

He's in Europe. There is no chance of him playing. He's finishing off his schooling and military obligations before coming over to North America.

Same question asked every once in a while, you'd only need one Google search or actual NHL knowledge. Oh well.

Here's a great, new interview/bio of Granlund. It's in Swedish and Finnish, but i'll try to get English subs done ASAP.

cFJCoYeg_Is

Here's a great, new interview/bio of Granlund. It's in Swedish and Finnish, but i'll try to get English subs done ASAP.

cFJCoYeg_Is

Atlanta Braves hat? Who is this Bro? :laugh:

There's also a new practising video in here:
http://www.iltalehti.fi/nettitv/?32041666

Edit. His skating has improved a lot in the last 2 years. A lot.

Holy eff, what an awesome vid! He just seems to think the game so ridiculously fast. The goalie doesn't stand a chance.

Skating looks great, doesn't bob at all, stays low, good edges and turns.

Love them putting the pucks away! Mental note: get a bucket.

Poor guy can't even practice anymore without media presence :(

Nice vid!

Avs fan here, I want to congratulate you guys on having Granlund in your system, I'm a big fan of his and he's my favourite prospect by far, even incuding Avs prospects. Mikko and him should be a great 1-2 punch for years to come.

Never realized how ugly his nose is.

Not as bad as Kesler.

Avs fan here, I want to congratulate you guys on having Granlund in your system, I'm a big fan of his and he's my favourite prospect by far, even incuding Avs prospects. Mikko and him should be a great 1-2 punch for years to come.


Thanks man. Yeah, it feels pretty great especially after I wanted Fowler so bad. Wouldn't have sucked getting Fowler, but Granlund is shaping up to be a ridiculously good player. Its hard to keep from constantly pumping his tires on the public boards--trying to stay humble here. :)

MG and his new car:

ykmbjPvbrxk

Thanks man. Yeah, it feels pretty great especially after I wanted Fowler so bad. Wouldn't have sucked getting Fowler, but Granlund is shaping up to be a ridiculously good player. Its hard to keep from constantly pumping his tires on the public boards--trying to stay humble here. :)

You're welcome. I really like this kid, I'm don't usually get excited about prospects, but I see something special in him every time I see him play. I really hope he reaches his full potential.

You're welcome. I really like this kid, I'm don't usually get excited about prospects, but I see something special in him every time I see him play. I really hope he reaches his full potential.

We do too :nod:

I love his stick handlign and how he thinks the game.. (like I haven't said this before..)

We do too :nod:

I love his stick handlign and how he thinks the game.. (like I haven't said this before..)

I always liked the way Finns play hockey (Lehtinen-S. Koivu-Selanne is my favourite line of all times) and Granlund is IMHO a perfect example of that. I like how he can make playing hockey seem effortless for him and he's one of the most cerebral players in the entire world, which is impressive considering his age, to me it seems like he's one step ahead of defenders all the time.

Wow... that video. I mean I've heard good things about Granlund, while never actually seeing him play, but that video gets me so pumped for him to come over. I agree with you rynryn, I really wanted Fowler on draft day, but after seeing how Granlund has developed, I'm glad we took him instead.

Wow... that video. I mean I've heard good things about Granlund, while never actually seeing him play, but that video gets me so pumped for him to come over.

A video about him and his new car got you pumped for him to come over?








:sarcasm:

Granlund is fine and will play on Friday. Confirmed by the organization.

Seeing as how IFK have Benz sponsorships on their pants, I wonder if he even had to much, if anything at all, for that ride.

Also, in the polls section Granlund is in a tight race for #4 best prospect with Johansen.

It seems like we've been waiting forever to see MG, but I'm so excited to see what he can do in the NHL. I'm kind of glad he went back to FEL for one more year to clear all doubts that he might have had. He can come over here and be focused and ready to go.

It's good that he will be playing on Friday, 7 points in 3 games is sick. It'd be disappointing to see him not score at least a PPG.

Nice to see that he is coming back and his healthy is ok.

Wow... that video. I mean I've heard good things about Granlund, while never actually seeing him play, but that video gets me so pumped for him to come over. I agree with you rynryn, I really wanted Fowler on draft day, but after seeing how Granlund has developed, I'm glad we took him instead.

What's so special about that video?? His biggest asset is his vision - or "hockey sense" as they call it. But this clip shows only shooting (bad), skating (average) and no special skills at all... Do I miss something? The exercise video is far from impressing.

He is no fancy player but he makes things happen. I think that is well said. So, these clips may not do justice to him as they fail to show his special talent.

I was pretty impressed with his ability to wait out and score on the goalie almost every time. And yes his edges and skating may be "average" but as a beer leaguer I find them very impressive. Also thought his one-handed stickhandling drills were fun to watch.

Nothing like that. I actually like Granlund's game a lot. I mean he must be really special talent cos he doesn't stand out indvidually that much one might expect. Indeed, he makes things happen though he isn't fancy, his skating looks heavy, he has no special skills. I think he is just a good hockey player who understands the game very well.

The only question is how this all translates to the NHL.

One thing I like is that, a lot like Crosby, he's intense and a hard worker, so he's continually working to improve things. He wasn't a good skater and worked to improve that. He obviously works hard in the gym because he's got plenty of size for his frame. He had an okay shot and then worked on it and it's better. He'll not just have an outstanding hockey IQ, but the skills should improve because he wants to improve them, not because he has to.

Granlund scored the first one tonight, taking HIFK to 1-0 lead against JYP. I would have seen it but this piece of **** mother****ing unprofessional SM-liiga broadcasting rights owner company that is full of twats who are notorious for failing always when its most expected so now they decided to have a discount weekend, giving single game streaming tickets for 2€ instead of the usual 9€. Of course these ****ing stupid twats like always didn't bother to prepare for the masses of customers on a full round game day, and now no one can't bloody watch any frigging streams cos their servers are getting slapped and hard and this pisses me off cos I wanted to see Granlund for the first time this season, and that bloody ******* goes and scores the first goal. Inb4 infraction, come at me bro.

-vicious rant-

How is that word which rhymes with watt not auto filtered?

How is that word which rhymes with watt not auto filtered?

I was actually kinda curious to see if it would be. Maybe its cos not too many brits frequent these boards?

Oh and my english gets sloppy when I'm a raging lunatic.

Granlund scored the first one tonight, taking HIFK to 1-0 lead against JYP. I would have seen it but this piece of **** mother****ing unprofessional SM-liiga broadcasting rights owner company that is full of twats who are notorious for failing always when its most expected decided to have an discount weekend, giving single game streaming tickets for 2€ instead of the usual 9€. Of course these ****ing stupid twats like always didn't bother to prepare for the masses of customers on a full round game day, and now no one can't bloody watch any frigging streams cos their servers are getting slapped and hard and this pisses me off cos I wanted to see Granlund for the first time this season, and that bloody ******* goes and scores the first goal. Inb4 infraction, come at me bro.

Halleluja! Tell it like it is brother!

Complete garbage. This company ain't ever getting my money again. Going to give them a pretty angry call on Monday. Only two Euro's I know, but this is a matter of principle. Goddamit!

I change my mind. Granlund will win FEL scoring. He is clearly the best player in FEL right now and one of the best players in europe. Racking points like crazy. +70 pts isn't impossible +80pts would be insane.

I change my mind.Granlund will win FEL scoring. He is clearly the best player in FEL right now and one of the best players in europe. Racking points like crazy. +70 pts isn't impossible +80pts would be insane.

What changed your mind?

What changed your mind?

His dominance is even more that i thought. My prediction was slightly over PPG before the season but Granlund seems to put points in every game. But lets see after 15 games how many points he will have.

Granlund scored the first one tonight, taking HIFK to 1-0 lead against JYP. I would have seen it but this piece of **** mother****ing unprofessional SM-liiga broadcasting rights owner company that is full of twats who are notorious for failing always when its most expected so now they decided to have a discount weekend, giving single game streaming tickets for 2€ instead of the usual 9€. Of course these ****ing stupid twats like always didn't bother to prepare for the masses of customers on a full round game day, and now no one can't bloody watch any frigging streams cos their servers are getting slapped and hard and this pisses me off cos I wanted to see Granlund for the first time this season, and that bloody ******* goes and scores the first goal. Inb4 infraction, come at me bro.

Yeah also paid 2€, not that its a lot of money BUT I DEMAND MORE THAN "Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage" **** YOu UrpoTv

Granlund's up to a goal, an assist and a hooking penalty.

Peltonen scored for IFK (2 - 2). Granlund assisted. I think Peltonen will make more points then Granlund. Will Granlund ever be better player than Peltonen? I think they are pretty equal, no matter what.

Peltonen scored for IFK (2 - 2). Granlund assisted. I think Peltonen will make more points then Granlund. Will Granlund ever be better player than Peltonen? I think they are pretty equal, no matter what.

Oh c'moon Peltonen is one of the best players of the league, the guy possesses such a veteranmanship that he is supposed to score. What is amazing, that Granlund can keep up with his score and he is almost two decades younger. /fanboy reaction

Peltonen scored for IFK (2 - 2). Granlund assisted. I think Peltonen will make more points then Granlund. Will Granlund ever be better player than Peltonen? I think they are pretty equal, no matter what.

Peltonen: 38 years old

Granlund: 19 years old

Not sure if the comparison is valid at the moment...

I think it makes a good comparison. Granlund's ceiling is about the same as Peltonen's in his prime, if u will. Why to compare MG to Saku Koivu when Peltonen is actually a more valid reference point? Especially when it comes to the NHL.

I think it makes a good comparison. Granlund's ceiling is about the same as Peltonen's in his prime, if u will. Why to compare MG to Saku Koivu when Peltonen is actually a more valid reference point? Especially when it comes to the NHL.

I don't see it. Granlund has done more at his age than Peltonen did at the same age. Granted, different eras might mean different things, but why is Peltonen a more valid reference point? It seems your opinion is vastly different than the majority of our knowledgable Finnish posters, so I guess I'll go with the majority at the moment, and not relegate Granlund's potential to "Ville Peltonen status".

Granlund's up to a goal, an assist and a hooking penalty.

Beer league hat trick, nice.

I think it makes a good comparison. Granlund's ceiling is about the same as Peltonen's in his prime, if u will. Why to compare MG to Saku Koivu when Peltonen is actually a more valid reference point? Especially when it comes to the NHL.

so what you are saying is that Granlund will have a short and marginal NHL career then go and dominate Finalnd (which he is doing at 19)

ok yup that sounds fair to me



btw last year Granlund had 9 pts in WC and was a big reason as to why Finland won it and Ville wasn't there

also granlund outscored peltonen in the playoffs as a 18 year old

Yeah also paid 2€, not that its a lot of money BUT I DEMAND MORE THAN "Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage" **** YOu UrpoTv

Yeah, same here was lookinf forward to seeing Granlund for the first time this year :rant:. Well now i know not to pay any money for those a-holes in Urpo tv.

Going to be sick if Granlund can keep this level up for the year. 60-70points wouldn't be impossible.

In defense of Loffer I must say that Peltonen is up there with guys like Selänne and Kurri in the eyes of a normal Finn.

Most respected Person in Finnish hockey.

Furthermore, they complement each other. It seems that no other line can score goals in the team. Always Granlund and Peltonen on the score sheet (and Kuhta). Bring the best scorers togehter and let them play PP all the time so it's no wonder. But pretty predictable and boring.

BTW did anyone see the match? The stream didn't work. How did Markus, Mikael's brother, play?

This should really go without saying but disagree with the point, not the person. Y'all have been warned.

I think it makes a good comparison. Granlund's ceiling is about the same as Peltonen's in his prime, if u will. Why to compare MG to Saku Koivu when Peltonen is actually a more valid reference point? Especially when it comes to the NHL.
I'd like to think that Granlund isn't done developing and growing at age 19 and he's not just keeping up with the top players in SM-Liiga but is one. That's more than most #1 prospects have managed.

In defense of Loffer I must say that Peltonen is up there with guys like Selänne and Kurri in the eyes of a normal Finn.

Most respected Person in Finnish hockey.

I think that Raimo "Raipe" Helminen is clearly the most respected hockey player from finland. Jere Lehtinen is the player that i respect the most from finnish players.

I think that Raimo "Raipe" Helminen is clearly the most respected hockey player from finland. Jere Lehtinen is the player that i respect the most from finnish players.

Well, maybe.

Peltonen is still up there.

so what you are saying is that Granlund will have a short and marginal NHL career then go and dominate Finalnd (which he is doing at 19)

ok yup that sounds fair to me



btw last year Granlund had 9 pts in WC and was a big reason as to why Finland won it and Ville wasn't there

also granlund outscored peltonen in the playoffs as a 18 year old

If you look only stats. MG is no Saku Koivu clone while Koivu was much better skater. I think Granlund makes better comparison with VP when you think how his game translates to the NA hockey. This is of course speculation but I see difficulties in how MG adapts to the hectic tempo of the NHL.

Maybe it is a little bit pessimistic comparison (who knows) and MG will do just fine in the NHL. And by "doing fine" I mean top 6 position and some 60 + points regularly.

If you look only stats. MG is no Saku Koivu clone while Koivu was much better skater. I think Granlund makes better comparison with VP when you think how his game translates to the NA hockey. This is of course speculation but I see difficulties in how MG adapts to the hectic tempo of the NHL.

Maybe it is a little bit pessimistic comparison (who knows) and MG will do just fine in the NHL. And by "doing fine" I mean top 6 position and some 60 + points regularly.

that is a valid point NHL pace plus rink size is different but Mikko Koivu who isn't the fleetest of foot does just fine, Granlund is quite smart and makes some amazing passes he will do fine.

Also wasn't one of granlunds strengths in that he can slow the play down with his vision?

If you look only stats. MG is no Saku Koivu clone while Koivu was much better skater. I think Granlund makes better comparison with VP when you think how his game translates to the NA hockey. This is of course speculation but I see difficulties in how MG adapts to the hectic tempo of the NHL.

Maybe it is a little bit pessimistic comparison (who knows) and MG will do just fine in the NHL. And by "doing fine" I mean top 6 position and some 60 + points regularly.

Peltonen

Season Team Lge GP G A Pts PIM GP G A Pts PIM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1991-92 HIFK Helsinki SM-li 6 0 0 0 0 -- -- -- -- --
1992-93 HIFK Helsinki SM-li 46 13 24 37 16


S. Koivu

Season Team Lge GP G A Pts PIM GP G A Pts PIM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1992-93 TPS Turku SM-li 46 3 7 10 28
1993-94 TPS Turku SM-li 47 23 30 53 42 11 4 8 12 16

Granlund

Season Team Lge GP G A Pts PIM GP G A Pts PIM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2009-10 HIFK Helsinki SM-li 43 13 27 40 2 6 1 5 6 0
2010-11 HIFK Helsinki SM-li 39 8 28 36 14


One of these things is not like the other ones...


If you want an actual comparable by stats:


Olli Jokinen

Season Team Lge GP G A Pts PIM GP G A Pts PIM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1996-97 HIFK Helsinki SM-li 50 14 27 41 88 -- -- -- -- --
1997-98 HIFK Helsinki SM-li 30 11 28 39 32 9 7 2 9 2

I know the figures. All I can think is that Granlund and Peltonen look pretty much like "twins" on the ice: speed, size, scoring... And what makes Granlund better player in the future then Peltonen was in the past? His play making ability?

I know the figures. All I can think is that Granlund and Peltonen look pretty much like "twins" on the ice: speed, size, scoring... And what makes Granlund better player in the future then Peltonen was in the past? His play making ability?

Well, we don't expect his development to halt at the age of 19. He's already this good, and there is still plenty of room to improve.

I know the figures. All I can think is that Granlund and Peltonen look pretty much like "twins" on the ice: speed, size, scoring... And what makes Granlund better player in the future then Peltonen was in the past? His play making ability?

So, Granlund is already as good as Peltonen, who's been a pro hockey player for two decades and is (one of) the best player(s) in the league. Not bad, in my opinion. I just can't believe that Granlund's development just stops right here. He will get even better. He's very mature, humble and wants to get better every day. And I actually think his vision, play making ability and puck skills are already better than Peltonen's and those are the things, along with his genuine passion for the game, that will make him at least a very good NHL player.

And by no means is this a knock on Peltonen. I think he's a great player with a great career.

Do players develop after 20 years of age? I donno. If as it is with Granlund the sense of the game is already at the top level. Granlund is ALMOST as good as he gets now IMO.

Do players develop after 20 years of age?

This a serious question?

Look at the progression of most any player in the NHL from their early 20's to their mid to late twenties and let us know what you found.

Do players develop after 20 years of age? I donno. If as it is with Granlund the sense of the game is already at the top level. Granlund is ALMOST as good as he gets now IMO.

Come on, do you really think that?

Look at Corey Perry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corey_Perry), who was drafted in 2003. At the age of twenty he scored 25 points in 56 games. He developed slowly and grew as a player until last year(at 26 years of age) he scored 98 points(50 goals) in 82 games. If he stopped developing at 20, he wouldn't have nearly outplayed his 20year old self by a factor of four.

Then you have Ryan Kesler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Kesler) Who went from a 20 year old/23 points to 27 year old/73 points. Look at Koivu here on the Wild. Went from 20 somthing points as a 22 year old to nearly triple it last season.

Granlund still has room to improve and grow as a player. I appreciate your input on everything, but that theory/thought you posted really didn't have any merit, IMO.

Yup, no player ever improves on what he did at the age of 20. Just look at Sam Gagner.

That's funny you took time to actually explain that.

Do players develop after 20 years of age?

You have to be trolling but I'll bite... :laugh: How about Ville Peltonen for example? I think he's developed greatly in his thirties. Last year, at the age of 37, he played the best hockey of his career.

Well, of course they do. But not that much in every case. It depends on many factors. Some prodigies just bust and you can't help it. Then you say that he "didn't reach his full potential" or something like that crap. So, there is always the possibility not to develop as expected.

Well, of course they do. But not that much in every case. It depends on many factors. Some prodigies just bust and you can't help it. Then you say that he "didn't reach his full potential" or something like that crap. So, there is always the possibility not to develop as expected.

.... And?

You're not stating anything that isn't already known. Quite honestly, I'm not even sure of what you're trying to get at in your tired attempt at diminishing a prospect that has already achieved what few have. We all know his career can take many different directions from this point on. He's a prospect after all. In the end, nothing you have stated makes me any less excited about the kid. And until he's proven he can't hang at the NHL level, I have no real reason to be all that leery of his prospects at the next level.

My guess is that Loffer is a Jokerit-fan...or just someone who is your typical envious finnish person.

My guess is that Loffer is a Jokerit-fan...or just someone who is your typical envious finnish person.

could be ville him self trolly Granlund :sarcasm:

My guess is that Loffer is a Jokerit-fan...or just someone who is your typical envious finnish person.

He is an jelous jokerit fan. Pulkkinen isn't even close to Granlund. I am blues fan myself and i hate IFK more than jokerit.

In fact I prefer IFK to Jokerit. And I may call myself a fan of Granlund. It just seems to me that he has reached 95 % of his potential already. His game looks rather mature. He has the skill, vision and physicality. I just wonder what parts of the game he can develop further. Gain some more weight and strength but that's about it. I hope he will do fine in the NHL. But it won't be easy.

My simple challenge to Granlund is this: I'll get on board with your "elite prospect" status when you handily outproduce your teammate, who was an NHL bottom-6er. Saku did it. Olli did it. Teemu did it. Now it's your turn to lead the way.

My simple challenge to Granlund is this: I'll get on board with your "elite prospect" status when you handily outproduce your teammate, who was an NHL bottom-6er. Saku did it. Olli did it. Teemu did it. Now it's your turn to lead the way.

Even if the bottom-6er's points are a result from playing with Granlund? You make it sound like points are accumulated in a vacuum.

Highlights of the game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCQddGP6ZiA


@ 00:49 Granlund tries to make a save but fails.
Twice on the ice when Jyp scored. Not his best game I guess.

And he should "dominate" FEL...

My simple challenge to Granlund is this: I'll get on board with your "elite prospect" status when you handily outproduce your teammate, who was an NHL bottom-6er. Saku did it. Olli did it. Teemu did it. Now it's your turn to lead the way.

It took me all of 45 seconds on hockeydb to find out that statement is false. Should I bother checking the others?

Even if the bottom-6er's points are a result from playing with Granlund? You make it sound like points are accumulated in a vacuum.

terrible argument, Ville might have been a bottom 6 player in NHL but in other leagues nhl bottom 6ers are starts.

case and point, Gine Guyer couldn't make the nhl, marginal collage player one of the stars in Germany, Ville is a elite player in FNL,

i also don't need Gralund to light it up and pull away to see he is progressing, not many 18 year olds are a key part of a world championship winning team and even fewer do what Granlund did.

Highlights of the game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCQddGP6ZiA


@ 00:49 Granlund tries to make a save but fails.
Twice on the ice when Jyp scored. Not his best game I guess.

And he should "dominate" FEL...

He's not a goalie; not sure what not blocking a shot proves. I actually appreciate the effort.

It took me all of 45 seconds on hockeydb to find out that statement is false. Should I bother checking the others?

saku actually did had like 20+ points more then next guy who was in 30's age wise, no knowing how Jokinen would have done but he missed like 14 games

This may be a very important year in MG's development, even if he doesn't eclipse his numbers from the last two years. This is his first season as a superstar in Finland, and it'll be good for him to learn from and adjust to the trappings of stardom.

For me, nothing has diminished my excitement over Granlund joining the Wild. He's proven to be a top end talent, and I'm confident that his talent will translate to the NHL.

Loffer just trolls. Granlunds upside is Marc Savard and at the minimun he will be a 40-50 point good two way center in the 2nd or 3rd line.

Granlund just scored from his brothers pass to make it 0-2 for HIFK at the end of the second period.

Granlund just scored from his brothers pass to make it 0-2 for HIFK at the end of the second period.

Would like to see that goal.

Savard and Saku are good comparisons. High end, borderline elite offensive talent, primarily playmakers, decent defense, smaller frames. And with both players, they have had so much more potential but were derailed by injuries. Granlund's had a concussion last year and hopefully can stay healthy through his career. But I think he can score 20+ goals and flirt with 80-90 points over 82 games.

Savard and Saku are good comparisons. High end, borderline elite offensive talent, primarily playmakers, decent defense, smaller frames. And with both players, they have had so much more potential but were derailed by injuries. Granlund's had a concussion last year and hopefully can stay healthy through his career. But I think he can score 20+ goals and flirt with 80-90 points over 82 games.

I think that's a modest estimate for him, and more likely the expected outcome rather than his ceiling. I think Granlund will become a PPG/20 goal scorer, however, if he reaches his full potential, he could reach that elite 100+ point level at least once or twice in his career. It's not likely for him to reach that full potential, but he certainly has that "it" factor.

2k1DPnsgIuA&

Granlund goal at 0:58

2k1DPnsgIuA&

Granlund goal at 0:58

wow, didn't know in Finland they teach the D to keep both hands on the stick at all times to inhibit range while simultaneously skating away from the middle of the ice.

Not to take away a goal from granland there, but that was given to him on a silver platter.

wow, didn't know in Finland they teach the D to keep both hands on the stick at all times to inhibit range while simultaneously skating away from the middle of the ice.

Not to take away a goal from granland there, but that was given to him on a silver platter.

I guess it was a bad play, but it looked bit like the defenseman Kudroc (former 1st round draft pick of Islanders) was maybe anticipating a pass from Granlund to Somervuori rather than for him to try and score. Maybe he also got lazy as there was only few seconds left in the period as well.

Anyways, it looks like Granlund has began this season rather well. But his team is in the gutters, 4 losses and 2 wins isn't that good for the last seasons champions. The plus/minus shows that Granlund is +7 after five games (missing one because of injury), the second best player in his team is +4 (his former linemate for previous games).

They tried to get scoring from other lines in this game and thus divided the former 1st line players to other lines. The result was that Granlund's line still scored two with his new linemates, the other lines zip even when bolstered with the 1st line players (Peltonen and Kuhta) who were scoring like madmen with Granlund. 1st line was +2 in this game even though they lost 3-2, his former linemates (5+5 and 3+5) were scoreless and took -1 and -2 today.

I guess it was a bad play, but it looked bit like the defenseman Kudroc (former 1st round draft pick of Islanders) was maybe anticipating a pass from Granlund to Somervuori rather than for him to try and score. Maybe he also got lazy as there was only few seconds left in the period as well.

Anyways, it looks like Granlund has began this season rather well. But his team is in the gutters, 4 losses and 2 wins isn't that good for the last seasons champions. The plus/minus shows that Granlund is +7 after five games (missing one because of injury), the second best player in his team is +4 (his former linemate for previous games).

They tried to get scoring from other lines in this game and thus divided the former 1st line players to other lines. The result was that Granlund's line still scored two with his new linemates, the other lines zip even when bolstered with the 1st line players (Peltonen and Kuhta) who were scoring like madmen with Granlund. 1st line was +2 in this game even though they lost 3-2, his former linemates (5+5 and 3+5) were scoreless and took -1 and -2 today.

That's actually some of the best news possible for us about Granlund. If splitting him from Peltonen results in Granlund scoring and Peltonen pointsless, it tells us a bit about who is the catalyst for the line.

wow, didn't know in Finland they teach the D to keep both hands on the stick at all times to inhibit range while simultaneously skating away from the middle of the ice.

Not to take away a goal from granland there, but that was given to him on a silver platter.

yeah sure it was cheap, it should have been denied.

but a goal it was.

To illustrate what type of game they just played, there was 120 shots combined, 75 from Assat alone. So much for playing defense.

That's actually some of the best news possible for us about Granlund. If splitting him from Peltonen results in Granlund scoring and Peltonen pointsless, it tells us a bit about who is the catalyst for the line.

let's not jump into conclusions. i bet Peltonen will get back to scoring in any time. it was just one game.

--- and don't they still play together in PP?

To illustrate what type of game they just played, there was 120 shots combined, 75 from Assat alone. So much for playing defense.

They count ALL shots in Finland. Even the ones that get blocked or miss the net by a lot. ("Miettinen shots")

The shots on goal on the other hand: HIFK 27 Ässät 44

Doesn't seem that extraordinary to me.

44 shots on goal is a lot.

They count ALL shots in Finland. Even the ones that get blocked or miss the net by a lot. ("Miettinen shots")

The shots on goal on the other hand: HIFK 27 Ässät 44

Doesn't seem that extraordinary to me.

44 is still pretty high..

To illustrate what type of game they just played, there was 120 shots combined, 75 from Assat alone. So much for playing defense.

Do your research? Is that too much to be asked?

44 shots on goal is a lot.

I think in NA they dont count all shots, like if pass accidentally goes to goalie or if goalie saves icing thats shot @ penaltykill ect so it looks different

There has been lots of shots but nothing extra ordinarry really.

Do your research? Is that too much to be asked?

You aren't familiar with SoH are you :laugh:

To illustrate what type of game they just played, there was 120 shots combined, 75 from Assat alone. So much for playing defense.

No wonder why Finland produces so many good goalies? :sarcasm:
:shakehead

yeah sure it was cheap, it should have been denied.

but a goal it was.

Never said it was cheap. A goal is a goal. Just pointed out that the defense seemed to open like the Red Sea. Seemed like a bizarre play to me.

Hell of a start to the season for the kid.

I'm in the middle here. Loffer and SoH are either pessimists, trolls, or both, but some of you are really going nuts on the optimistic predictions. Correct me if I'm wrong, of all the players the Wild have drafted, only Gaborik has managed to put up a point per game. Only he and Koivu have managed as much as 70 points a season. Yes, there's a new coach in town, but if Granlund comes close to a point a game and 70 points on a regular basis, he will be the best Wild draft pick ever. That in itself would be outstanding.

Blah blah blah. Mother****er scores 10 points in 5 games. At this moment the only shots that you should be talking about are the ones you consumed in a bar or at a friend.

I'm in the middle here. Loffer and SoH are either pessimists, trolls, or both, but some of you are really going nuts on the optimistic predictions. Correct me if I'm wrong, of all the players the Wild have drafted, only Gaborik has managed to put up a point per game. Only he and Koivu have managed as much as 70 points a season. Yes, there's a new coach in town, but if Granlund comes close to a point a game and 70 points on a regular basis, he will be the best Wild draft pick ever. That in itself would be outstanding.

You forget, we're talking about a player who several different organizations have called some variation of "the best player who has yet to play an NHL game." To be honest, the title of "best Wild draft pick ever" isn't exactly a lofty crown. It's not like anyone calling him the second coming of Gretzky. PPG isn't that exclusive a club either. Granlund's closest (stat) comparable is Olli Jokinen who did it. Hell, Jonathan Cheechoo put up PPG in 05-06.

You forget, we're talking about a player who several different organizations have called some variation of "the best player who has yet to play an NHL game." To be honest, the title of "best Wild draft pick ever" isn't exactly a lofty crown. It's not like anyone calling him the second coming of Gretzky. PPG isn't that exclusive a club either. Granlund's closest (stat) comparable is Olli Jokinen who did it. Hell, Jonathan Cheechoo put up PPG in 05-06.

If he ends up being better than Gaborik and Koivu, that's a hell of a pick at 9 overall.

I'd settle for as good as or nearly as good. Koivu has size, and Gaborik has incredible speed, neither of which Granlund has. They both have high hockey IQs as well.

I'd just temper my expectations if you are thinking Gretzy/Crosby like talent or Art Ross Trophys. PPG or nearly would be a huge success.

They count ALL shots in Finland. Even the ones that get blocked or miss the net by a lot. ("Miettinen shots")

The shots on goal on the other hand: HIFK 27 Ässät 44

Doesn't seem that extraordinary to me.
That's what I figured they might do over there, so that's why I said "shots", not "shots on goal". That way it covers both bases. It was a pretty loose game evidenced by the official shots on goal.
Do your research? Is that too much to be asked?
Already done. Need anything more?

I'm in the middle here. Loffer and SoH are either pessimists, trolls, or both,
This entire Wild forum needs to a lesson on what trolling is:
http://hfboards.com/faq.php?faq=vb3_board_faq#faq_forum_rules

There's virtually no trolling in this forum. Some people just can't handle diverse opinions.

There's virtually no trolling in this forum. Some people just can't handle diverse opinions.

Okay, then you're a pessimist, at least by my meager standards. Or a contrarian.

Okay, then you're a pessimist, at least by my meager standards.

Right now, yes. It's not a fun time to be a Wild fan. The team has been pessimistic.

When it comes to Granlund, I'm, not going to go head over heels until he proves himself in a NA-style game. What he's doing now has been done before, and it does not guarantee NHL stardom.

This entire Wild forum needs to a lesson on what trolling is:
http://hfboards.com/faq.php?faq=vb3_board_faq#faq_forum_rules

There's virtually no trolling in this forum. Some people just can't handle diverse opinions.
I'm torn because on one hand you have a good point that there is nothing wrong with divisive opinions. Honestly they make for the best threads. However, on the other the way this post comes across (especially the first part) is condescending enough where it comes across as starting a dispute for the sake of starting a dispute.

For the most part as long as anyone has legitimate opinion and strays away from taking potshots at other posters or players, it's not trolling.

Right now, yes. It's not a fun time to be a Wild fan. The team has been pessimistic.

When it comes to Granlund, I'm, not going to go head over heels until he proves himself in a NA-style game. What he's doing now has been done before, and it does not guarantee NHL stardom.

It's a lot more fun to be a fan now than it was last summer/fall. We've made some moves to strengthen our forward group. We added 3 first round draft picks @ the draft with Brodin/Coyle/Phillips. Add that to the Zucker/Bulmer/Larsson/Granlund draft and you have 7 solid - blue chip prospects added within the last year and a half.

There are going to be question marks with all prospects until they prove themselves in the NHL, but writing that it's not fun to be a Wild fan right now isn't true.

Sure, we're not a dominant force like in 08, but we have the opportunity to be a much better team than we were last year.

One last thing to keep in mind. Through the first month of last year, the Aeros were 4-5-1, which is a pretty lackluster start. It took the team a little while to catch onto Yeo's system, and we may have a first month like that. I think we're seeing the growing pains right now.

While i dont have the same expectations as for example State of Hockey, its unfair to say that he is a troll or a pessimist just because his opinion is different.

The point is that for a long time we dont have something to cheer for, a nice future. Now that apparently we have one, ppl are getting way over it. I disagreed once with someone that Granlund rating was not 9.0C and 8.0b was fine, and someone already called me a pessimist. Looks like a Wild inquisition!

So, if someone opinion is more conservative than your high hopes, let they be. Sooner or later reality strikes both and if is good great, everyone wins. But if is bad, guess who is going to say that the world is so unfair.

What he's doing now has been done before, and it does not guarantee NHL stardom.

Who has done it before? Name five.

jeez you guys, it's like either you're really negative about it because you don't want to get disappointed if he doesn't pan out (" i'll just wait until he shows that he is good in NA"-type) or you're really positive because he's the best prospect Wild has ever had.
I'm sure we're all happy that he has shown that he can dominate SM Liiga like he does, we should be excited. It's a prospect, right now he can't prove himself in NA, so let's just be happy about what he does in Finland. And have our hopes up that he translates it to NHL too later. :)

They count ALL shots in Finland. Even the ones that get blocked or miss the net by a lot. ("Miettinen shots")

The shots on goal on the other hand: HIFK 27 Ässät 44

Doesn't seem that extraordinary to me.

Your source?

Because I've actually been counting shots in couple lower-level (Suomi-sarja, B-SM) games, and we only had to count the shots on goal. Even if the shot was going a bit wide and saved by the goalie, it didn't count as a shot.

Your source?

Because I've actually been counting shots in couple lower-level (Suomi-sarja, B-SM) games, and we only had to count the shots on goal. Even if the shot was going a bit wide and saved by the goalie, it didn't count as a shot.

They just count only them. Ok? Geez... Why are everybody making this so hard.

Your source?

Didn't find it by quick googling but they changed that a couple years ago. You can easily notice how shot counting has changed by looking shot-stats and save-stats separately. I guess it's a bit more informative this way since you can see how many times the other team misses the net too.

Shots on goal 44-27. All shots in this map. Blue means saved by goal keeper, black means a goal, green is a blocked shot and orange is a "Miettinen".

http://79.125.21.88/statistics/hockey/rt_event_frame.php?GAMEID=37033&LANG=FI&TYPE=8&SEASON=2012&SHOW=2

Right now, yes. It's not a fun time to be a Wild fan. The team has been pessimistic.

When it comes to Granlund, I'm, not going to go head over heels until he proves himself in a NA-style game. What he's doing now has been done before, and it does not guarantee NHL stardom.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_DWD9uJsgZOw/TR3ywbQXGpI/AAAAAAAAAMA/fQMhJkobCbw/that-word-inigo-montoya-word-think-means-princess-bride-mand-demotivational-poster-1260739585_thumb%5B4%5D.jpg



SoH isn't a troll, he's a flagrantly blind pessimist. The Wild could start the season 30-0-0 and he would still be here telling us how there's a strong chance the Wild will miss the playoffs.

As for the arguments in the thread, so far the pessimist hasn't actually provided an accurate argument. My challenge to you is to provide some "facts" that are actually correct (so far your claims have all been proven false) to support your extreme pessimism.

@Caior - The reason you're called a pessimist for an 8.0B is because HF's ratings mark the ceiling and the odds. An 8.0B means that he has a chance to be an average first liner, but is most likely going to be a good second liner and has absolutely no chance of ever being better than average on the top line. A 9.0C pegs the same floor, but acknowledges there's a chance he'll be a star. A 9.0C doesn't mean he'll be Crosby, it means he has a chance of being Corey Perry, Joe Thornton, or even Dany Heatley. Mikko is an 8.0 player right now, and the consensus is that Granlund's has the potential to be better than Mikko. That doesn't mean he will be better, it means it wouldn't be terribly surprising if he ends up being better. So, if Granlund could be better than an 8.0 player, he must be rated higher than 8.0.

Shots on goal 44-27. All shots in this map. Blue means saved by goal keeper, black means a goal, green is a blocked shot and orange is a "Miettinen".

http://79.125.21.88/statistics/hockey/rt_event_frame.php?GAMEID=37033&LANG=FI&TYPE=8&SEASON=2012&SHOW=2

I like your style.

I dont want to start this discussion again, but i dont believe that Granlund as potential to be better than Koivu until he comes to NA, he as potential to be better offensively but not near in overall play than Mikko does. Not downgrading FEL and WC, but i dont think that is enough to presume that he is better than a 1 line center in the NHL playing in a starving offensive team.
In terms of HF ranking, its like a Spezza and Koivu, both are 8, but one is more dimensional than the other.
But, thats my opinion, and i really dont want to start this again;

if he's even on par with Koivu I'm going to be stoked. Koivu wasn't nearly as good as Granlund at the same point in his career, so there is a lot more reason for optimism than pessimism on that front. Doesn't always turn out that way of course, but what exactly would Granlund have to do at this point for the diehard pessimists to be optimistic about his future on the Wild? Is there anything at all he could possibly do to change your mind? Anything?

God knows i'm generally cynical and contrary but I don't see any reason to fear the Granlund pick will not work out for us. The only thing i'm going to be doing here is judging whether or not we would have been better off picking Fowler as I wanted and even if I decide I would have rather had Fowler it doesn't mean I think Granlund was a bad pick.

Seriously, what does Granlund have to do in order to allay fears? Grow six inches? If he does that, he'll move from an average skater to poor, i'd imagine, so it'd bring a whole other reason for doubt.

if he's even on par with Koivu I'm going to be stoked. Koivu wasn't nearly as good as Granlund at the same point in his career, so there is a lot more reason for optimism than pessimism on that front. Doesn't always turn out that way of course, but what exactly would Granlund have to do at this point for the diehard pessimists to be optimistic about his future on the Wild? Is there anything at all he could possibly do to change your mind? Anything?

God knows i'm generally cynical and contrary but I don't see any reason to fear the Granlund pick will not work out for us. The only thing i'm going to be doing here is judging whether or not we would have been better off picking Fowler as I wanted and even if I decide I would have rather had Fowler it doesn't mean I think Granlund was a bad pick.

Seriously, what does Granlund have to do in order to allay fears? Grow six inches? If he does that, he'll move from an average skater to poor, i'd imagine, so it'd bring a whole other reason for doubt.

This is what i was saying in the other post, that you probably didn't saw. Your guys expect that everyone here thinks that Granlund is going to be a Thornton or a Stamkos already and if someone come and disagree with it, for a lot of reasons. Boom! Pessimist, Troll,etc!
I like the kid, and really expect that he turns out to be a great player, but my expectation are not so high like yours, i want to see more before making a complete judgment.

But well... no one expects the Wild inquisition!

This is what i was saying in the other post, that you probably didn't saw. Your guys expect that everyone here thinks that Granlund is going to be a Thornton or a Stamkos already and if someone come and disagree with it, for a lot of reasons. Boom! Pessimist, Troll,etc!
I like the kid, and really expect that he turns out to be a great player, but my expectation are not so high like yours, i want to see more before making a complete judgment.

But well... no one expects the Wild inquisition!

No, it's you who keep missing things.

No one has said he will be a Thornton or Stamkos.

Read that again.

And again.

And a fourth time.

No one has said he will be those things.

What people have been saying is that he could become that. Assigning him an 8.0B rating says he could never become that. That's the difference here. You're being labeled a pessimist because you're making the claim (intentionally or not) that he will never be better than Koivu, no matter what.

This is what i was saying in the other post, that you probably didn't saw. Your guys expect that everyone here thinks that Granlund is going to be a Thornton or a Stamkos already and if someone come and disagree with it, for a lot of reasons. Boom! Pessimist, Troll,etc!
I like the kid, and really expect that he turns out to be a great player, but my expectation are not so high like yours, i want to see more before making a complete judgment.

But well... no one expects the Wild inquisition!

nice monty python reference! i'm not predicting Elite status--i don't and never have thought of Koivu as Elite. My expectations are Koivu but I allow a margin either way. I would be disappointed if he was only good for a third line center on a bad team; I don't think that's an unrealistic bar to set as far as expectations.

No, it's you who keep missing things.

No one has said he will be a Thornton or Stamkos.

Read that again.

And again.

And a fourth time.

No one has said he will be those things.

What people have been saying is that he could become that. Assigning him an 8.0B rating says he could never become that. That's the difference here. You're being labeled a pessimist because you're making the claim (intentionally or not) that he will never be better than Koivu, no matter what.

You putting words in my mouth then, read it again. I never said that he is not going to be better than Koivu. But from what i already saw right now, until he comes to NA, its to early to assume that he is going to be. For the six time...
And i'm going to quote myself.. again
I like the kid, and really expect that he turns out to be a great player, but my expectation are not so high like yours, i want to see more before making a complete judgment.

Jesus!
Cant you have your opinion and save for yourself, and i have mine?

:help:

You putting words in my mouth then, read it again. I never said that he is not going to be better than Koivu. But from what i already saw right now, until he comes to NA, its to early to assume that he is going to be. For the six time...
And i'm going to quote myself.. again


Jesus!
Cant you have your opinion and save for yourself, and i have mine?


I didn't put these words into your mouth:

I disagreed once with someone that Granlund rating was not 9.0C and 8.0b was fine, and someone already called me a pessimist.

You said it. If Granlund is an 8.0B, by the rating system you're using that's stating that he has absolutely no chance to be better than Koivu.

I didn't put these words into your mouth:



You said it. If Granlund is an 8.0B, by the rating system you're using that's stating that he has absolutely no chance to be better than Koivu.

right now thats how i think his floor is gonna be, because of the NA factor. But hey, Granlund comes next year and rips apart at training camp and preseason. Then i agree with you. But saying that he is never going be be better than Koivu is putting words in my mouth, i never said that.

right now thats how i think his floor is gonna be, because of the NA factor. But hey, Granlund comes next year and rips apart at training camp and preseason. Then i agree with you. But saying that he is never going be be better than Koivu is putting words in my mouth, i never said that.

You are not processing what he is saying. By giving him a rating of an 8.0B you are EFFECTIVELY stating that Granlund's UPSIDE. Meaning the BEST that he will ever be is roughly KOIVU. If you think he has a chance to be better than Koivu than he should be rated HIGHER than an 8.0.

So, you did basically say the best he could be is Koivu.

:shakehead:shakehead

I just picked this kid up in my keeper league and am quite pumped about him for next season. I wanted to check out this thread to read up on the kid and get some good insights. I gotta say reading all the bickering over trivial matters of opinion to be quite a buzz kill.

I just picked this kid up in my keeper league and am quite pumped about him for next season. I wanted to check out this thread to read up on the kid and get some good insights. I gotta say reading all the bickering over trivial matters of opinion to be quite a buzz kill.

Welcome to Minnesota Wild fandom :laugh:

You are not processing what he is saying. By giving him a rating of an 8.0B you are EFFECTIVELY stating that Granlund's UPSIDE. Meaning the BEST that he will ever be is roughly KOIVU. If you think he has a chance to be better than Koivu than he should be rated HIGHER than an 8.0.

So, you did basically say the best he could be is Koivu.

:shakehead:shakehead

Right now without seeing him playing in the NA, yes. No one know how his game is going to translate. Will he come next year and be bad? I dont know, but if he comes next year and rips apart at training camp and preseason, yes it may be higher than 8.0. THIS is not saying never!

What i'm trying to say to him, is that my opinion is one now and it may chance depending in what turns out next season. You may realize that not all people make final opinions about things and is just done, like "my opinion is this and its never going to chance"... they form an opinion as times goes on.

Right now without seeing him playing in the NA, yes. No one know how his game is going to translate. Will he come next year and be bad? I dont know, but if he comes next year and rips apart at training camp and preseason, yes it may be higher than 8.0. THIS is not saying never!

What i'm trying to say to him, is that my opinion is one now and it may chance depending in what turns out next season. You may realize that not all people make final opinions about things and is just done, like "my opinion is this and its never going to chance"...

The problem is, you don't seem to understand how the HF rating system works. Assigning an 8.0B to a player indicates that the best they could ever possibly be ever is an average first line player. The B indicates how likely that person is to reach that ceiling. A 9.0C player could be a perennial all-star, but they could be nothing more than an average second liner. An 8.0B player could at best be an average first liner, who might get one or two all-star nominations in their career, but could be nothing more than an average second liner.

The problem is, you don't seem to understand how the HF rating system works. Assigning an 8.0B to a player indicates that the best they could ever possibly be ever is an average first line player. The B indicates how likely that person is to reach that ceiling. A 9.0C player could be a perennial all-star, but they could be nothing more than an average second liner. An 8.0B player could at best be an average first liner, who might get one or two all-star nominations in their career, but could be nothing more than an average second liner.

He is just sayin' that its not that big of a deal that Granlund is an 8.0B. It really not worth nitpicking over a 9.0C and an 8.0B. Anyways, If a player gets a nod to the allstar game they are much better than the average first liner.

But its good to see granlund off to such a hot start. Relieved that his injury isn't serious.

My opinion: Granlund will never be as good as Koivu.

That being said, Koivu is one of the most underrated first line center in the NHL. First of all, look at his former linemates(over the last 2 years), are you kidding me? Granlund has better linemates in Kuhta and Peltonen than Koivu had in Miettinen and Brunette. Mittens and Brunette are 15-20 and 20-25 goalscorers respectively and Koivu put up something like 0.85 PPG. After this season, if he doesn't get to PPG, I'd be dissapointed. And honestly I think Granlund will be something like 45-60 points second linecenter with maybe a 1-3 seasons with 60-75 points. And that is not pessimistic, I'd be extremely happy with that productions and solid two-way game. If he does better great, if not that wouldn't surprise me.

And as for the defensive game. I think Koivu is steps in front of Granlund, especially in corners and in front of the net, but well that's just me. And that is mainly because of his size. Granlund can still improve a bit, but still defensively I think his chances of being as good as Koivu are slimmer than offensively, so close to none.

Size is a big concern, not many under 5"11 that have regularly put up PPG seasons in recent years. Many have had like 1-2 seasons (roy, gionta, briere etc.). Only ones I know that have had consistent PPG results are St Louis and Savard. 5"11 there are come but they are exceptions to the rules, like crosby, dats, Z, alfredsson(great linemates) etc.

Size is a big concern, not many under 5"11 that have regularly put up PPG seasons in recent years. Many have had like 1-2 seasons (roy, gionta, briere etc.). Only ones I know that have had consistent PPG results are St Louis and Savard. 5"11 there are come but they are exceptions to the rules, like crosby, dats, Z, alfredsson(great linemates) etc.

5'10"
Patrick Kane
Saku Koivu
Jeff Skinner (I know, was only 0.75PPG but he was a rookie)
Mike Cammalleri (only 5'9" but put up PPG in 2/3 of his "full" seasons)
Derek Roy (only did it twice)

5'11"
Far too many players to list. In fact, after looking through rosters, I think that 5'11" players make up over 50% of the PPG players since the lockout.

Granlund is only one centimeter away from being 5'11" and i'm quite sure that Granlund will grow that missing cm.

And Granlund will be amazing player in the future. In Wild's jersey. So stop complaining. Fowler who?

You said it. If Granlund is an 8.0B, by the rating system you're using that's stating that he has absolutely no chance to be better than Koivu.
8.0 is better than Koivu if you ask me. Koivu is more like a 7.5.

8.0 is better than Koivu if you ask me. Koivu is more like a 7.5.

I don't know, if you read HF's descriptions of an 8 and a 7, Koivu seems a lot closer to an 8 than a 7.

If Spezza and Richards are considered 8's, Koivu should be as well.

If Spezza and Richards are considered 8's, Koivu should be as well.
Both Spezza and Richards have done things that Koivu hasn't, namely be that PPG guy on multiple occasions.

Both Spezza and Richards have done things that Koivu hasn't, namely be that PPG guy on multiple occasions.

Spezza has had 3 seasons where he was a PPG guy, and those three seasons he was on a line with Dany Heatley. Now that he doesn't have Heatley with him anymore, he has consistently failed to put up numbers that are meaningfully better than Koivu. In the past 3 years, Koivu has put up more points than Spezza playing with significantly worse linemates. Put simply, there's no valid way to rate Spezza as a "better" player than Koivu from a statistical standpoint.

Both Spezza and Richards have done things that Koivu hasn't, namely be that PPG guy on multiple occasions.

put either of those guys on the last years Wild team and they will be exposed, Koivu dedicates him self to every aspect of the game, he wont cheat on D to score a goal because he gets that IF YOU SCORE 2 GOALS AND BY BEING OVERLY AGRESSIVE YOU GIVE UP 3 YOU LOST THAT GAMBLE.

So yes koivu didn't put up a ppg yet, but look at every team he has played on, never was put with gabby or any shooter and his teams have been marginal as hell that he has played on.

Also Minnesota has never had a true number 2 center yet alone a complete 2nd line, Koivu with Bruno and mittens put up solid points while facing the best opposing players and playing in every situation. that is quite a feat, he is the best offensive player, he's excellent on the pp, he is a beast on the Pk and regularly plays in every situation, don't hate his game isn't all points its everything he does.

also anyone watching the Wild last year can tell you this, once koivu was injured BOTH BRUNO AND MITTENS WERE BEYOND USELESS, KOIVU COMES BACK BRUNO STARTS SCORING AND BEING A THREAT....


YEAH HE IS GOOD, REAL GOOD

Spezza has had 3 seasons where he was a PPG guy, and those three seasons he was on a line with Dany Heatley. Now that he doesn't have Heatley with him anymore, he has consistently failed to put up numbers that are meaningfully better than Koivu. In the past 3 years, Koivu has put up more points than Spezza playing with significantly worse linemates. Put simply, there's no valid way to rate Spezza as a "better" player than Koivu from a statistical standpoint.


not to mention Alfredson he's not a chump himself

Both Spezza and Richards have done things that Koivu hasn't, namely be that PPG guy on multiple occasions.

That they have, but does it really matter in judging a player on the level that he is on today? I don't think so.

So yes koivu didn't put up a ppg yet, but look at every team he has played on, never was put with gabby or any shooter and his teams have been marginal as hell that he has played on.

Also Minnesota has never had a true number 2 center yet alone a complete 2nd line, Koivu with Bruno and mittens put up solid points while facing the best opposing players and playing in every situation. that is quite a feat, he is the best offensive player, he's excellent on the pp, he is a beast on the Pk and regularly plays in every situation, don't hate his game isn't all points its everything he does.

I'm a big Koivu fanboy, but when I watch him play their are elements in his game that make me doubt that he will ever be a ppg player.

First, his passing is really aggressive. This is a weird complaint since it at times is a positive for him, but I often see him trying to pass straight through the middle with a quick hard pass and frequently it gets broken up on the way through, or the recipient can't handle it. Guys like Havlat or Bouchard who pass with finesse seem to me to be the more dangerous playmakers.

Yet, The thing that seperates Koivu from other players in my view is his aggression level and physical board play combined with his slightly above average skill in almost every other area. He isn't the best shooter, passer, or skater, but he is strong enough in those categories that his high level of physical play along the wall pushes him into the elite category. When he is playing hard Koivu seems to always win his battles and take opposing players off their game.

When I look at these skill sets I think Koivu, like many have mentioned before, is an ideal second line center. I actually can't think of a player more adapted to playing as a second line center in the league. If we could build a team that could afford to have him put in that role it would be very dangerous. That is why I hope Granlund can come over and have enough skill to take the first line center spot and push Koivu into the position he would be most effective at.

That said, I still think it is possible that Koivu puts up big numbers on the two sharks and a fin line, and it is possible that he hits the PPG range, but I just don't think he is built to be that elite offense first center like Nicklas Backstrom. He would be best used as a Selke caliber elite second line center, and that isn't something to be disappointed about.

Parise-Granlund-Bouchard. Tiny line. But will be awesome. Mark it down.

Parise-Granlund-Bouchard. Tiny line. But will be awesome. Mark it down.

:handclap:

Spezza has had 3 seasons where he was a PPG guy, and those three seasons he was on a line with Dany Heatley. Now that he doesn't have Heatley with him anymore, he has consistently failed to put up numbers that are meaningfully better than Koivu. In the past 3 years, Koivu has put up more points than Spezza playing with significantly worse linemates. Put simply, there's no valid way to rate Spezza as a "better" player than Koivu from a statistical standpoint.
To be fair to Spezza he was on pace for about 100+ points, not just PPG, all three of those seasons. And the last three seasons Spezza has slightly bettered Koivu's points per game averages. All the while Spezza has seen a big decline in the talent around him. There is no statistical way yet to say that Koivu is a better candidate for that "1st-line" player status than Spezza.

That they have, but does it really matter in judging a player on the level that he is on today? I don't think so.
Well if you're going to talk about current events, Spezza just posted a better PPG number last season than Koivu ever has. And that was while battling his own injuries and a dreadful team. Koivu has to prove he's that good. Linemates only take you so far. For example, Gaborik never had that 50-goal, 90-100 point season we thought he might have with Demitra. On October 3rd, 2012, we may think totally differently about this.

Well if you're going to talk about current events, Spezza just posted a better PPG number last season than Koivu ever has. And that was while battling his own injuries and a dreadful team. Koivu has to prove he's that good. Linemates only take you so far. For example, Gaborik never had that 50-goal, 90-100 point season we thought he might have with Demitra. On October 3rd, 2012, we may think totally differently about this.

No doubt that Koivu has a lot to prove. We've been touting the "better linemates" argument every time his name comes up on the main board. Personally, I think he's going to have a good, regular year this year (70ish points) and show the improvement (up to PPG) next year. However, in fairness, your Spezza example is a matter of 3/100's of a point per game. I'm not denying Spezza is a great offensive talent, but his offense (and Richards' as well, because he was a previous example) aren't so far beyond Koivu's today, that he is a tier below the likes of them.

Right now, I would have this...

Offense
Koivu = Spezza = Richards

Defense
Koivu = Richards > Spezza

It seems to me that he belongs on their level.

Edit: I just realized I'm arguing about a ranking and have absolutely no idea when it was updated. Oh well...

To be fair to Spezza he was on pace for about 100+ points, not just PPG, all three of those seasons. And the last three seasons Spezza has slightly bettered Koivu's points per game averages. All the while Spezza has seen a big decline in the talent around him. There is no statistical way yet to say that Koivu is a better candidate for that "1st-line" player status than Spezza.


Well if you're going to talk about current events, Spezza just posted a better PPG number last season than Koivu ever has. And that was while battling his own injuries and a dreadful team. Koivu has to prove he's that good. Linemates only take you so far. For example, Gaborik never had that 50-goal, 90-100 point season we thought he might have with Demitra. On October 3rd, 2012, we may think totally differently about this.

With how down you are on the Wild and it's players, I'm really starting to question why you follow them. Just by location?

Linemates have a very big role on how a player performs, anybody who thinks otherwise is blind. If you're the only player on that line that the other team has to worry about, it won't be hard to shut you down. This is why teams don't spread they're best players throughout their lines. You bunch them up because they will be harder to stop.

Last year Koivu put up 62 points in 71 games. Would would equate to .87pts/game. It's not asinine to think he could score 10 more points in that span.

It's tough at Koivu's age; he peaked at 20 :sarcasm: