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-   -   Injury Report: All Injury Talk: Gill out Saturday/Markov not back before California trip (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1006737)

overlords 10-16-2011 03:47 PM

All Injury Talk: Gill out Saturday/Markov not back before California trip
 
Latest Updates:
Spacek - undisclosed - day-to-day - will miss Wed & Thurs games
Gill - infection - day-to-day - released from hospital Nov 18, won't play Sat.
Kostitsyn - groin - placed on IR Nov 16
Markov - knee - no set date for return - won't be back before California road trip (Nov. 30 - Dec. 3) per Martin
White - sports hernia surgery - won't be back until after Christmas per Martin (Nov. 9)
Campoli - hamstring/tendon - skated alone Nov. 8

Nov. 18
Quote:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=380770

The club also said Friday that veteran blueline Hal Gill will not be in the lineup on Saturday against the New York Rangers as he was hospitalized on Thursday for an infected cut.
Quote:

From Canadiens.com

Give ‘em Hal: After seeing their blue line leader conspicuously absent from the Canadiens lineup for last two games, hospitalized with an infection to a cut on his leg, the Habs were all happy to see (and hear) Hal Gill back in the fold Friday morning.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary320 (Post 39609661)
habsinsideout1 Dave Stubbs
#Habs Gill had infection from a cut. Forget the flu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary320 (Post 39610067)
Another update.

MAGodin Marc Antoine Godin
According to Jacques Martin, Andrei Markov shouldn't be back before the trip in California.

Nov. 17
Quote:

Originally Posted by SB164 (Post 39569783)
RDSca RDS
Précision : Hal Gill est hospitalisé depuis trois jours en raison d'une infection ou d'un virus.

RDS is now reporting that Gill has been hospitalized for the past three days.

Edit: Damnit Fel!



Nov. 16
Quote:

MAGodin Marc Antoine Godin
Le nom d'Andrei Kostitsyn a été placé sur la liste des blessés du Canadien.

[Andrei Kostitsyn has been placed on injured reserve by the Canadiens]

RDSca RDS
H. Gill et J. Spacek rateront les deux prochains matchs du Canadien. M. Cammalleri sera en uniforme mercredi.

Gill and Spacek to miss the Canadiens' next 2 games. Cammalleri will play Wednesday.
Nov. 15
Quote:

Originally Posted by 7th Player (Post 39456503)
CanadiensMTL Montreal Canadiens
Gill, Kostitsyn, Engqvist and Spacek are not at practice.

From Habs Twitter.

That means Cammy is back skating.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SB164 (Post 39455317)
habsinsideout1 Dave Stubbs
#Habs Cammalleri is on practice ice

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMMR (Post 39458581)
No surprise but no set date for Markov to return when talking to the media today.
AS per Habs twit feed

Nov. 14

Quote:

renhockey Renaud P Lavoie
#canadiens Hall Gill est malade. Ne jouera pas ce soir. Sick and he won't play tonight.

MAGodin Marc Antoine Godin
Andrei Markov skating with his teammates this morning! Granted, he's wearing a jersey of a different colour, but still...

renhockey Renaud P Lavoie
#canadiens Hal Gill est absent ce matin. Not at morning skate.

CanadiensMTL Montreal Canadiens
Cammalleri y est également, mais Kostitsyn n'est pas de l'entraînement. /Cammalleri also practicing, but no Kostitsyn.

renhockey Renaud P Lavoie
#canadiens Andrei Kostitsyn (aine) absent. Not at morning skate. Groin.
Nov. 11
Quote:

renhockey Renaud P Lavoie
#canadiens Scott Gomez de retour demain. Cammalleri on vera demain. Andrei Kostitsyn out. Peter Budaj le gardien.

RDSca RDS
P. Budaj sera le gardien du CH contre Nashville. S. Gomez effectuera un retour au jeu. Kostitsyn sera absent. ******/7qGH7
Nov. 10
Quote:

http://www.985sports.ca/hockey/nouve...nt-106619.html

Translations:

Cammalleri left practice shortly after getting on the ice. Suffering from a hamstring injury.
Kostitsyn did not practice and is still suffering from a lower body injury.
Gomez will miss tonight's game but is a good bet to play Saturday vs. NSH.
Markov practiced under the supervision of trainers and coaches, but still has some ways to go. He didn't look too comfortable in a one-on-one drill with Scott Gomez.

Nov. 9
Quote:

Originally Posted by zzoo (Post 39179747)
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/sports/hoc...2_section_POS7

"Andrei Markov, pour sa part, continue de patiner en solitaire et Jacques Martin a mentionné qu'il n'était pas encore prêt à rejoindre l'équipe. Le défenseur Chris Campoli, qui soigne un tendon de la jambe gauche, a lui aussi recommencé à patiner en solo.

Il n'y a que Ryan White qui semble encore loin d'un retour au jeu. Il appert que l'intervention chirurgicale qu'il a subie pour soigner une hernie sportive à l'aine devait prendre entre 8 et 12 semaines de convalescence. Jacques Martin nous a dit qu'il ne s'attendait pas à le revoir avant Noël."

[Translation edit: Markov is skating alone and is still not ready to rejoin the team according to Martin. Campoli, out with a tendon injury in his left leg, is also skating alone.

Ryan White is still far from a return. His recuperation after the surgery takes 8-12 weeks and Martin says not to expect him back before Christmas].

Quote:

Originally Posted by 417 (Post 39184215)
Markov's making the trip to Phoenix with the rest of the team, although he still hasn't been cleared to practice with them...but it's a good sign

Nov. 8
Quote:

Originally Posted by Monaco88 (Post 39129145)
Campoli is back on the ice!!!!!

http://legrandclub.rds.ca/profils/608644/posts/125359


With Campoli and Markov back and Gomez also, the only one missing will be White...

Nov. 7
Quote:

http://www.rds.ca/canadien/chroniques/329679.html

Translation: Kostitsyn left practice due to a nagging injury and might miss Tuesday's game. Martin said he'll be evaluated later today.

Gomez practiced at centre with Eller and Moen on his wings, but is not cleared for contact yet. Martin said he might join the team on the trip to Phoenix and Nashville, but he's unlikely to play before the Nashville game. Gomez himself said he'll see how he feels after today's practice before speculating on when he'll be back.
Oct. 28
Quote:

Originally Posted by Habs83 (Post 38620321)
Markov 1-2 weeks away from practicing with the team but will skate on his own in the meantime.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/icechips/

D Andrei Markov is expected to be 1-2 weeks away from practicing with the team. He will skate on his own before joining his teammates in practice. - TSN


:yo:


Oct. 26
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sthabs (Post 38523775)
ArponBasu Arpon Basu
I'm sure this was reported, but #Habs Gauthier also said Markov could be back on ice as early as next week

Quote:

Originally Posted by HomaridII (Post 38522155)
BrianWildeCTV BrianWilde
PG says: Markov was having 2 a day draining workouts in Florida. No structural damage. Strengthening muscle groups round knee.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SB164 (Post 38521579)
Markov is arriving back from Florida to Montreal on Friday.

renhockey Renaud P Lavoie
#canadiens Pierre Gauthier: "Andrei Markov il a fait beaucoup de progrès. Il revient vendredi soir à Montréal."

renhockey Renaud P Lavoie
#canadiens: toujours sur Markov: "toutes les nouvelles sont bonnes. On est juste forcé d'attendre".

EricEngels Eric Engels
Gauthier says everything's positive in Markov's case but we have to wait

BrianWildeCTV BrianWilde
Markov who was very close to returning one full month ago, PG says has made a lot of recovery progress. #habs

Quote:

Originally Posted by beh3moth (Post 38521613)
Markov in Montreal for Friday:

According to @renhockey, Gauthier just said Markov will be back in Montreal on Friday night
http://twitter.com/#!/Real_ESPNLeBru...34236850290689

"#canadiens Pierre Gauthier: "Andrei Markov il a fait beaucoup de progrès. Il revient vendredi soir à Montréal.""

lebrun and renaud lavioe respectively

Quote:

Originally Posted by Et le But (Post 38521643)
TonyMarinaro Tony Marinaro
Pierre Gauthier says dr andrews & 3 different physio therapists and doctor pushed Andrei Markov to the limit and his knee is responding well

Quote:

Originally Posted by Habs83 (Post 38502943)
JohnLuTSNMtl John Lu
#Habs Pacioretty is a possibility to make the trip to Boston because he's a GTD tonight, according to J. Martin.
23 minutes ago
» JohnLuTSNMtl John Lu
#Habs Pacioretty is a gametime decision, says J. Martin.
32 minutes ago

Quote:

renhockey Renaud P Lavoie
#canadiens Max Pacioretty skating. He'll try to play tonight.
Quote:

JohnLuTSNMtl John Lu
#Habs Pacioretty is skating. We'll see if he does any line rushes and update.
Quote:

http://www.rds.ca/canadien/chroniques/328896.html

Pacioretty, qui n'a pas terminé la rencontre, n'a donc pas subi de fracture et pourrait même effectuer un retour au jeu au cours de la semaine.

(Pacioretty, who didn't finish the game, didn't suffer a fracture and could even be back later in the week)
Oct. 25

Quote:

Originally Posted by hototogisu
Montreal Canadiens winger Max Pacioretty will not play Wednesday night against the Philadelphia Flyers as he is dealing with an upper body injury.

Pacioretty, who left Monday’s game against the Florida Panthers after the second period of a 2-1 loss, was set to see a doctor later Tuesday. He is listed as day-to-day.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2011/...bs_pacioretty/

Quote:

Originally Posted by hototogisu
Quote:

MAGodin Marc Antoine Godin
Max Pacioretty subit des tests plus approfondis pour évaluer l'étendue de sa blessure au bras gauche (poignet?). Plus de détails à venir.
(Pacioretty undergoing tests to evaluate the extent of the injury to his left arm (wrist?). More details to come.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fel 96
Quote:

Extent of Pacioretty's injury won't be known til Tues. MTL calls it upper body. I am hearing arm or perhaps wrist. Tough time for Habs.
http://twitter.com/#!/TSNBobMcKenzie...62510311186432
Quote:

Unconfirmed report has #Habs Pacioretty injury his wrist. Might be fractured. Again, that's unconfirmed
http://twitter.com/#!/habsinsideout1...80191554895872

Damn.

That'd be a bad news if true.

Oct. 20
Quote:

Originally Posted by HomaridII (Post 38194715)
renhockey Renaud P Lavoie
#canadiens Mike Cammalleri et Jaroslav Spacek sont de l'entraînement matinal. Both are on the ice for morning skate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by groovejuice (Post 38195501)
Mike Cammalleri joue ce soir. Will play tonight.

from twitter Lavoie

Oct. 19
Quote:

MAGodin Marc Antoine Godin
Pas exclu que Cammalleri joue demain à PIT, mais Jacques Martin ajoute: "Je doute pour demain, mais j'espère qu'il sera prêt samedi."

(Not out of the question for Cammalleri to play tomorrow in PIT, but Martin says: "I doubt it for tomorrow, but I hope he'll be ready for Saturday")
Quote:

JohnLuTSNMtl John Lu
#Habs Cammalleri will travel to Pittsburgh with the team, but J. Martin doubts he will play the Penguins. Still awaiting medical clearance.
Oct. 18
Quote:

Originally Posted by Commandant (Post 38091011)
Dave Stubbs (@habsinsideout1)

#Habs Cammalleri might be back later this week, Spacek still seems a couple weeks away

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pernell Karl (Post 38091697)
Per MA Godin Markov is staying in Florida another week to do off ice training.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HomaridII (Post 38092263)
JohnLuTSNMtl John Lu
by BrianWildeCTV
#Habs Markov saw Dr. Andrews in Fla yesterday, will see him again @ end of this week. Playing in October is "out of the question" -- Martin


Emanresu Wen 10-16-2011 03:59 PM

Will Markov be able to start right away? How is his conditioning? Has he somehow practiced lately?

Stjonnypopo 10-16-2011 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emanresu Wen (Post 38018507)
Will Markov be able to start right away? How is his conditioning? Has he somehow practiced lately?

I think he worked his ass off all summer working out and has been skating with trainers since training camp.

I wouldn't worry about conditioning.

icerocket 10-16-2011 04:21 PM

Markov will play. Get injured. Never play again.

76ftw 10-16-2011 04:42 PM

Markov will not get hurt the rest of the year and become a savior.

juve 10-16-2011 05:01 PM

Markov better not come early again. He should take all the time in the world, make sure it's healed properly.

Gainey#1* 10-16-2011 06:37 PM

It is concerning that Markov is going to see Dr. Andrews again tomorrow given that he saw him 1 week ago.

What has changed in 1 week that he has to return to see Dr. Andrews?

Let's hope it is for final clearance...but it doesn't all add up right now.

Lshap 10-16-2011 07:21 PM

Nothing adds up right now because we're not given any data to add.

All this speculation/rumour mongering/predictions of doom is the result of the admin's hush-hush attitude towards Markov's health. When you say nothing and keep his condition secret, when you dismiss questions on his return to a simplistic, "He's making progress", then don't be surprised that people will assume the worst. And yes, the team DOES owe it to us, the fans, to feed us updates. It's not like we're voyeurs into someone's personal drama; this is a business that lives and dies on its entertainment value to us. We create the revenue that ultimately pays Markov's salary -- kindly have the respect to give us good news and bad news on a key reason I paid good money for tickets.

Andy 10-16-2011 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lshap (Post 38025089)
Nothing adds up right now because we're not given any data to add.

All this speculation/rumour mongering/predictions of doom is the result of the admin's hush-hush attitude towards Markov's health. When you say nothing and keep his condition secret, when you dismiss questions on his return to a simplistic, "He's making progress", then don't be surprised that people will assume the worst. And yes, the team DOES owe it to us, the fans, to feed us updates. It's not like we're voyeurs into someone's personal drama; this is a business that lives and dies on its entertainment value to us. We create the revenue that ultimately pays Markov's salary -- kindly have the respect to give us good news and bad news on a key reason I paid good money for tickets.

I don't think they owe us anything. I think we are already spoiled as it is. 82 games a year televised, all pre-season games televised....95 reporters covering the team, 20 radio stations(obvious exaggeration).

You've been told enough already. They've reported when he stopped skating, Martin gave an update a few weeks ago giving a rough but very vague approximation. You've recieved news about when he last went to the doctor. You know that he's going to the doctor tomorrow as well. How about you just stay patient and stop acting so spoiled. You're lucky you even get any of this info at all.

Some of you would have died if you'd have to live in the 50s and 60s without internet and tv where communication was slower.

Lshap 10-16-2011 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy (Post 38025215)
I don't think they owe us anything. I think we are already spoiled as it is. 82 games a year televised, all pre-season games televised....95 reporters covering the team, 20 radio stations(obvious exaggeration).

You've been told enough already. They've reported when he stopped skating, Martin gave an update a few weeks ago giving a rough but very vague approximation. You've recieved news about when he last went to the doctor. You know that he's going to the doctor tomorrow as well. How about you just stay patient and stop acting so spoiled. You're lucky you even get any of this info at all.

Some of you would have died if you'd have to live in the 50s and 60s without internet and tv where communication was slower.

I can only imagine what my clients would say if I used your line on them. "You're spoiled. Be patient. You're lucky I communicated with you last week." Holy crap, what a way to run a business!

Seriously now, whether you recognize it or not, we are the customers of the Habs. They owe us information because, ultimately, they owe us their business. The Montreal Canadiens aren't entitled to our ticket money, nor are they entitled to ad revenue. They command their high prices only as long as we hold them in high regard. You may not remember this, but there were many years in the 90s and early 2000s where the team was NOT doing well, where they had to scramble to sell tickets. Wanted to see a game? There were lots of empty seats to choose from. They spent a fortune marketing themselves to the fans, recreating the organization's image into the user-friendly city-wide phenomenon it is today.

Bottom line: They gave us what we wanted and we bought the product. These are the same rules that apply to any business, ESPECIALLY one in the entertainment industry.

overlords 10-16-2011 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lshap (Post 38025827)
I can only imagine what my clients would say if I used your line on them. "You're spoiled. Be patient. You're lucky I communicated with you last week." Holy crap, what a way to run a business!

Seriously now, whether you recognize it or not, we are the customers of the Habs. They owe us information because, ultimately, they owe us their business. The Montreal Canadiens aren't entitled to our ticket money, nor are they entitled to ad revenue. They command their high prices only as long as we hold them in high regard. You may not remember this, but there were many years in the 90s and early 2000s where the team was NOT doing well, where they had to scramble to sell tickets. Wanted to see a game? There were lots of empty seats to choose from. They spent a fortune marketing themselves to the fans, recreating the organization's image into the user-friendly city-wide phenomenon it is today.

Bottom line: They gave us what we wanted and we bought the product. These are the same rules that apply to any business, ESPECIALLY one in the entertainment industry.

You buy tickets to see the show. Nothing more, nothing less. If you don't want to support them, don't. Your own example shows that when fans aren't happy, they stop spending money. If you're unhappy and you keep spending it, well that's your problem.

Beakermania* 10-16-2011 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lshap (Post 38025827)
I can only imagine what my clients would say if I used your line on them. "You're spoiled. Be patient. You're lucky I communicated with you last week." Holy crap, what a way to run a business!

Seriously now, whether you recognize it or not, we are the customers of the Habs. They owe us information because, ultimately, they owe us their business. The Montreal Canadiens aren't entitled to our ticket money, nor are they entitled to ad revenue. They command their high prices only as long as we hold them in high regard. You may not remember this, but there were many years in the 90s and early 2000s where the team was NOT doing well, where they had to scramble to sell tickets. Wanted to see a game? There were lots of empty seats to choose from. They spent a fortune marketing themselves to the fans, recreating the organization's image into the user-friendly city-wide phenomenon it is today.

Bottom line: They gave us what we wanted and we bought the product. These are the same rules that apply to any business, ESPECIALLY one in the entertainment industry.

Then don't buy tickets anymore... there will be more for me to buy.

The object is to win games... if the team feels that there is an advantage in not letting your opponents know the exact injury status of players (and tons of teams believe this) so be it.

Lshap 10-16-2011 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by overlords (Post 38026175)
You buy tickets to see the show. Nothing more, nothing less. If you don't want to support them, don't. Your own example shows that when fans aren't happy, they stop spending money. If you're unhappy and you keep spending it, well that's your problem.

If it's "nothing more, nothing less", then why is this thread on its second incarnation? Why are so many people obsessing over the state of Andre Markov, rookies in Hamilton, our next coach, etc? Point is, the Montreal Canadiens are FAR more than the 'show'. Or, more accurately, the 'show' is far more than what happens on the ice.

Face it, the reason the organization has prospered even without a Cup is because it figured out how to sell itself as a culture. Before the mid-90s, all they had to do was win Stanley Cup after Stanley Cup. Then the well went dry and so did ticket sales. The on ice product -- the 'show' -- simply wasn't enough anymore because the team simply wasn't that good. So in comes the new admin and voila -- a new marketing philosophy. The Canadiens started marketing individual players, showing up on billboards, showing up at events -- the whole culture thing. And we, the fans, responded.

In fact, we responded so well that some people actually believe it's wrong to have expectations of the organization, that they don't owe us anything. You couldn't be more wrong. The Montreal Canadiens are a sports franchise that uses its rich history as a terrific marketing tool to keep us hooked. They need us more than we need them. See the Montreal Expos for further evidence.

Am I complaining about this manipulative relationship? No, because that's how business works. I'm happy to spend my money on tickets and don't feel used or betrayed -- as long as I'm entertained, which I have been for over 40 years. Please don't pretend that my questioning the brass means a lack of support. If being critical of management means a lack of support, then about 80% of the threads on this board are in the same boat. We've all bought into the hockey culture that exists on the ice, and off, and we're entitled to sound off anyway we want. We're all fans of the team... as long as the team is smart enough to be fans of us.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commandant (Post 38027011)
Then don't buy tickets anymore... there will be more for me to buy.

The object is to win games... if the team feels that there is an advantage in not letting your opponents know the exact injury status of players (and tons of teams believe this) so be it.

The first part of your answer is childish.

The second part misses my point. I'm not personally miffed at the organization, I'm just stating the reason why so many people here keep harping on this subject. Look at the number of posts on Markov and ask yourself why so many fans are frustrated and distrustful. The reason, I think, is because the team has created the idea that the team is 'ours', but then goes dark about its biggest star. I tried to explain why you can't consciously create the most loyal fanbase in the league and then withhold information from it. It's a tricky contradiction that can bite you in the ass.

nyhabsfan 10-16-2011 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icerocket (Post 38019209)
Markov will play. Get injured. Never play again.

I hear Prozac is good for depression. :(

Bullsmith 10-16-2011 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lshap (Post 38027219)
If it's "nothing more, nothing less", then why is this thread on its second incarnation? Why are so many people obsessing over the state of Andre Markov, rookies in Hamilton, our next coach, etc? Point is, the Montreal Canadiens are FAR more than the 'show'. Or, more accurately, the 'show' is far more than what happens on the ice.

Face it, the reason the organization has prospered even without a Cup is because it figured out how to sell itself as a culture. Before the mid-90s, all they had to do was win Stanley Cup after Stanley Cup. Then the well went dry and so did ticket sales. The on ice product -- the 'show' -- simply wasn't enough anymore because the team simply wasn't that good. So in comes the new admin and voila -- a new marketing philosophy. The Canadiens started marketing individual players, showing up on billboards, showing up at events -- the whole culture thing. And we, the fans, responded.

In fact, we responded so well that some people actually believe it's wrong to have expectations of the organization, that they don't owe us anything. You couldn't be more wrong. The Montreal Canadiens are a sports franchise that uses its rich history as a terrific marketing tool to keep us hooked. They need us more than we need them. See the Montreal Expos for further evidence.

Am I complaining about this manipulative relationship? No, because that's how business works. I'm happy to spend my money on tickets and don't feel used or betrayed -- as long as I'm entertained, which I have been for over 40 years. Please don't pretend that my questioning the brass means a lack of support. If being critical of management means a lack of support, then about 80% of the threads on this board are in the same boat. We've all bought into the hockey culture that exists on the ice, and off, and we're entitled to sound off anyway we want. We're all fans of the team... as long as the team is smart enough to be fans of us.



The first part of your answer is childish.

The second part misses my point. I'm not personally miffed at the organization, I'm just stating the reason why so many people here keep harping on this subject. Look at the number of posts on Markov and ask yourself why so many fans are frustrated and distrustful. The reason, I think, is because the team has created the idea that the team is 'ours', but then goes dark about its biggest star. I tried to explain why you can't consciously create the most loyal fanbase in the league and then withhold information from it. It's a tricky contradiction that can bite you in the ass.

I think there are lots and lots of business models that prioritize secrecy and release the minimum information possible about product launches in advance of having the product actually ready to launch. In the "entertainment" industry in particular. From major films to the latest iphone, keeping the paying audience fully informed in advance about what's coming it not exactly industry norm. The way the habs are behaving about Markov is textbook, really. Could they do things differently, certainly. Would it sell more tickets? Hell no. Markov will sell tickets if he shows up and fans will rage at the Habs if he doesn't. Playing with our expectations in the meantime is how 990 makes a living, not the CHC.

Ozymandias 10-16-2011 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyhabsfan (Post 38027919)
I hear Prozac is good for depression. :(

I think he meant it as an anti-jinx, at least, I hope he did.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullsmith (Post 38028699)
I think there are lots and lots of business models that prioritize secrecy and release the minimum information possible about product launches in advance of having the product actually ready to launch. In the "entertainment" industry in particular. From major films to the latest iphone, keeping the paying audience fully informed in advance about what's coming it not exactly industry norm. The way the habs are behaving about Markov is textbook, really. Could they do things differently, certainly. Would it sell more tickets? Hell no. Markov will sell tickets if he shows up and fans will rage at the Habs if he doesn't. Playing with our expectations in the meantime is how 990 makes a living, not the CHC.

Ka-ching

It's not like there's a shortage of the kind of people they cater to.

habsrule22 10-16-2011 09:25 PM

You would think that even at 100 % healthy that Markov would play the first few games with a knee brace

Talks to Goalposts 10-16-2011 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lshap (Post 38027219)
If it's "nothing more, nothing less", then why is this thread on its second incarnation? Why are so many people obsessing over the state of Andre Markov, rookies in Hamilton, our next coach, etc? Point is, the Montreal Canadiens are FAR more than the 'show'. Or, more accurately, the 'show' is far more than what happens on the ice.

Face it, the reason the organization has prospered even without a Cup is because it figured out how to sell itself as a culture. Before the mid-90s, all they had to do was win Stanley Cup after Stanley Cup. Then the well went dry and so did ticket sales. The on ice product -- the 'show' -- simply wasn't enough anymore because the team simply wasn't that good. So in comes the new admin and voila -- a new marketing philosophy. The Canadiens started marketing individual players, showing up on billboards, showing up at events -- the whole culture thing. And we, the fans, responded.

In fact, we responded so well that some people actually believe it's wrong to have expectations of the organization, that they don't owe us anything. You couldn't be more wrong. The Montreal Canadiens are a sports franchise that uses its rich history as a terrific marketing tool to keep us hooked. They need us more than we need them. See the Montreal Expos for further evidence.

Am I complaining about this manipulative relationship? No, because that's how business works. I'm happy to spend my money on tickets and don't feel used or betrayed -- as long as I'm entertained, which I have been for over 40 years. Please don't pretend that my questioning the brass means a lack of support. If being critical of management means a lack of support, then about 80% of the threads on this board are in the same boat. We've all bought into the hockey culture that exists on the ice, and off, and we're entitled to sound off anyway we want. We're all fans of the team... as long as the team is smart enough to be fans of us.



The first part of your answer is childish.

The second part misses my point. I'm not personally miffed at the organization, I'm just stating the reason why so many people here keep harping on this subject. Look at the number of posts on Markov and ask yourself why so many fans are frustrated and distrustful. The reason, I think, is because the team has created the idea that the team is 'ours', but then goes dark about its biggest star. I tried to explain why you can't consciously create the most loyal fanbase in the league and then withhold information from it. It's a tricky contradiction that can bite you in the ass.

Is this kind of information what the clientbase as a whole actually wants or just a minority of you and some people like you though? This isn't a situation with a small amount of clients that need to be continually appeased according to their demands, this is a clientele of millions whose contribution to the bottom line are based on population dynamics not individual whims.

I don't see an actual impact on the club's revenue streams stemming from dissatisfaction over injury information. And the team has an interest in keeping injury disclosure to a minimum to limit other teams gamesmanship on injuries. There's a reason coaches prefer to limit their briefings to terms like upper/lower body injury. I think the desire to protect their players outweighs your desire to be feel "in the loop."

Lshap 10-16-2011 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullsmith (Post 38028699)
I think there are lots and lots of business models that prioritize secrecy and release the minimum information possible about product launches in advance of having the product actually ready to launch. In the "entertainment" industry in particular. From major films to the latest iphone, keeping the paying audience fully informed in advance about what's coming it not exactly industry norm. The way the habs are behaving about Markov is textbook, really. Could they do things differently, certainly. Would it sell more tickets? Hell no. Markov will sell tickets if he shows up and fans will rage at the Habs if he doesn't. Playing with our expectations in the meantime is how 990 makes a living, not the CHC.

Secrecy works when it's embedded in the business rules. Banking, law, health -- all rely on a healthy dose of confidentiality because that's what the customers want.

Not so with entertainment; for better or worse, we want anti-secrecy. The movies? Geez, the studios will do anything to spoon-feed us info, keeping us tuned in to its product long, long before the product is even in theaters. Secrecy - what secrecy? We get a never-ending stream of breadcrumbs sprinkled in print, TV and online, all leading to the release date -- previews, interviews, exclusive behind-the-scenes glimpses, photo shoots, etc, etc, etc -- all of it designed to keep us up to date on the upcoming feature. The real secrecy stuff always comes out, and is poison -- see Megan Fox, Charlie Sheen or Mel Gibson.

Sports is the same. If there's one thing MLB learned -- the hard way with steroids -- it's that secrecy always comes out, and the fans will lambaste you for trying to fool them. I'm not saying a rehabbing Markov is anywhere near the severity of a Roger Clemens or Barry Bonds, or that we have to be wired to Markov's biorhythms to keep tabs on whether he slept well. I'm just sayin' we've moved beyond the time when secrecy was an accepted form of communication for most businesses. Wanna' be secret? Good luck, when every damn hotel and restaurant is laid bare for review on the internet; every actor does a gazillion promo interviews to plug his latest film to the fans; and every athlete exposes the state of his health to the fans who ultimately pay his multi-million dollar salary.

Right or wrong, anyone who makes money entertaining the public owes that public transparency.

bcv 10-16-2011 09:47 PM

I'm sorry, didn't I click the injury report thread? Sure doesn't look like it!

Lshap 10-16-2011 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts (Post 38029885)
Is this kind of information what the clientbase as a whole actually wants or just a minority of you and some people like you though? This isn't a situation with a small amount of clients that need to be continually appeased according to their demands, this is a clientele of millions whose contribution to the bottom line are based on population dynamics not individual whims.

I don't see an actual impact on the club's revenue streams stemming from dissatisfaction over injury information. And the team has an interest in keeping injury disclosure to a minimum to limit other teams gamesmanship on injuries. There's a reason coaches prefer to limit their briefings to terms like upper/lower body injury. I think the desire to protect their players outweighs your desire to be feel "in the loop."

Fair points. I don't pretend to be an expert on how to run a hockey team, but I do work in marketing, and have marketed pretty large organizations. What I've seen is that people expect transparency. The perception that something's being kept secret is a dangerous thing for any organization, like a cancer that slowly grows. Nobody's planning to stop watching the games or give away their tickets quite yet, but if a distrust of management is added to poor seasons, watch for the hockey culture to slowly lose faith. They can rationalize secrecy all they want -- it's to keep other teams in the dark, it's to protect the players -- the fact is that the organization either fills in the information blanks or we do it ourselves. And being left to fill in those blanks ourselves is a recipe for the worst kind of rumour mongering. For further evidence, read half the threads on these boards.

macavoy 10-16-2011 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy (Post 38025215)
You've been told enough already. They've reported when he stopped skating, Martin gave an update a few weeks ago giving a rough but very vague approximation. You've recieved news about when he last went to the doctor. You know that he's going to the doctor tomorrow as well. How about you just stay patient and stop acting so spoiled. You're lucky you even get any of this info at all.

Some of you would have died if you'd have to live in the 50s and 60s without internet and tv where communication was slower.

****newsflash*****

This isn't the 50's or 60's, so it doesn't matter what it was like then.

This is the now. The reality is, we didn't get an update or a vague approximation. We got a BS answer that he's on plan but then since then, everyone refuses to answer what is the plan. That isn't an update, that is skirting the issue and not answering.

The reality is, NHL teams are required to report certain things to the media, its part of the NHL rules. So don't claim we are spoiled, we aren't, it is what it is.

Et le But 10-17-2011 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by macavoy (Post 38031203)
****newsflash*****

This isn't the 50's or 60's, so it doesn't matter what it was like then.

This is the now. The reality is, we didn't get an update or a vague approximation. We got a BS answer that he's on plan but then since then, everyone refuses to answer what is the plan. That isn't an update, that is skirting the issue and not answering.

The reality is, NHL teams are required to report certain things to the media, its part of the NHL rules. So don't claim we are spoiled, we aren't, it is what it is.


We are spoiled though. Yes there is a requirement but in more than half the markets hockey is an afterthought, and teams only have 1 or 2 guys who focus exclusively on its coverage, if that many. I try to find out the injury situation of a day to day player for my pool, if Yahoo doesn't know than nobody does. With the Habs you get 20 journalists on twitter immediately posting all rumors, speculations, and quotes as soon as they come out, in two languages.

Does that mean the club should try and hide things from us? No, and I hope they don't, but they should be putting the players interest first even if it means not updating us 24/7.

ECWHSWI 10-17-2011 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lshap (Post 38025827)
I can only imagine what my clients would say if I used your line on them. "You're spoiled. Be patient. You're lucky I communicated with you last week." Holy crap, what a way to run a business!

Seriously now, whether you recognize it or not, we are the customers of the Habs. They owe us information because, ultimately, they owe us their business. The Montreal Canadiens aren't entitled to our ticket money, nor are they entitled to ad revenue. They command their high prices only as long as we hold them in high regard. You may not remember this, but there were many years in the 90s and early 2000s where the team was NOT doing well, where they had to scramble to sell tickets. Wanted to see a game? There were lots of empty seats to choose from. They spent a fortune marketing themselves to the fans, recreating the organization's image into the user-friendly city-wide phenomenon it is today.

Bottom line: They gave us what we wanted and we bought the product. These are the same rules that apply to any business, ESPECIALLY one in the entertainment industry.

Your clients would go to another business... what will you do, move to Nashville and start watching the Preds ?

seriously...

Beakermania* 10-17-2011 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by macavoy (Post 38031203)
****newsflash*****

This isn't the 50's or 60's, so it doesn't matter what it was like then.

This is the now. The reality is, we didn't get an update or a vague approximation. We got a BS answer that he's on plan but then since then, everyone refuses to answer what is the plan. That isn't an update, that is skirting the issue and not answering.

The reality is, NHL teams are required to report certain things to the media, its part of the NHL rules. So don't claim we are spoiled, we aren't, it is what it is.

we got info on thursday, from JM himself.

He was on Sportsnet's Hockey Central and he said that Markov was in Florida to see his doctors, he was cleared to resume skating and he was expected to practice before the end of the month.

The fact is, if the team had an exact date, they'd give it to us...

But guess what? They don't have an exact date. The situation changes daily. How Markov's knee responds, how sore it is, how much swelling we see, etc... in the hours and day that follows any vigorous workout has an effect.

This is a fluid situation, and at the same time the team risks over exposure if they do a press release every time every player feels a twinge of pain, or gets a therapy massage.


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