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-   -   Finally saw inside out and (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=100688)

pld459666 08-29-2004 09:41 PM

Finally saw inside out and
 
it's going to be interesting to see how this kid Korpikoski turns out as they seemed intent of taking him at 6 if Montoya was gone.

very interesting to say the least.

Yizee* 08-30-2004 07:20 AM

yeah
 
Yeah I was very surprised when I heard them say they would take Korpikoski if both montoya and ladd were gone - but I doubt that Maloney would have taken him and not trade down andtake him later in the draft - Obviously this show was a big hit last year and they did it again - hopefully they do it every year - HBO a few years back to back played a reality Football show that showed inside access to NFL Training Camps following rookies and other stuff which was awesome - We need more of these inside access shows

melisa 08-30-2004 07:23 AM

I liked the show also but Maloney needs to calm down. I know he loves his job but take it easy. It was funny when he's going nutso over these picks and Sather is sitting there like whatever.

I think Sather was drunk for this draft.

pld459666 08-30-2004 08:41 AM

I think that both Maloney and Rockstrom are on the line
 
with the Korpikoski pick.

I mean Renney was on board with it, but Don was highly enthused with the kid and since this was Rockstrom's territory in terms of scouting I think that if this kid fails to materialize into something then both may be gone.

To go so far as to say that you were going to make him the selection at 6 if the other 2 were gone is really stretching. He may turn out to be a very good player but it was still interesting to see that they were this high on him.

Right after the 18th pick was announced, Christer reached over to Don and shook his hand.

I hope that they are right about him.

Kubera55 08-30-2004 09:43 AM

Eh, Rockstrom's had a whole lot of success for the Rangers. It'd take a lot more than a blown 19th-overall-pick for the Rangers to even consider losing faith in him.

Don't forget, Rockstrom's also the guy credited with finding Tjutin, Prucha, and Lundqvist in the later rounds recently. And his history of finding Kim Johnson's, and Tomas Kloucek's, with the Rangers is well established. (to say nothing of his resume including Nik Lidstrom, Federov, et al.)

Besides, it's not like the Rangers actually TOOK him at #6. They were patient and knew he'd be available latter, so they held their water and got him at a point of value. (Like, for example, the Phoenix Coyotes didn't with Wheeler, and the Oilers didn't with Dubynk.)

Personally the only thing about this draft that scares me is Olesz. Well, Tukonen a little, but not nearly as much as the big Czech. Up until about half-way through the season Olesz was still considered the No.2 prospect around . . . and he was sitting right there, at a position of clear need, for the taking. If he becomes a stud and Montoya is dogsh*t, I'm gonna be very depressed.

True Blue 08-30-2004 10:31 AM

Maloney & Rockstrom are happy
 
due to the fact that they feel that they struck gold in the first round. In their minds, the draft is already a success due to the fact that they are 100% certain that they god a franchise goalie and a top 6 forward. Heck, if they are right about Montoya and Korpikoski, if just one of Graham, Dubinsky or Olver works out (nevermind the rest even), then the draft is a smash hit.

Levitate 08-30-2004 12:04 PM

Quote:

Personally the only thing about this draft that scares me is Olesz. Well, Tukonen a little, but not nearly as much as the big Czech. Up until about half-way through the season Olesz was still considered the No.2 prospect around . . .
i don't think olesz was ever rated #2...i think he was always pretty much behind ovechkin and malkin.

and worrying that he'll pan out and montoya won't...that could be said for any pick in any position. what if we picked him and he busted, while montoya went on to be an all-star? i'd be dissapointed if that happened to. it's a complete crapshoot. i liked olesz going into the draft and i don't know why he dropped...but time will tell if he is the prospect people thought he was early last year

in the hall 08-30-2004 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Levitate
i don't think olesz was ever rated #2...i think he was always pretty much behind ovechkin and malkin.

and worrying that he'll pan out and montoya won't...that could be said for any pick in any position. what if we picked him and he busted, while montoya went on to be an all-star? i'd be dissapointed if that happened to. it's a complete crapshoot. i liked olesz going into the draft and i don't know why he dropped...but time will tell if he is the prospect people thought he was early last year

It was more like 2a and 2b. He was at worst on par with Malkin.

True Blue 08-30-2004 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by in the hall
It was more like 2a and 2b. He was at worst on par with Malkin.

Maybe 3 months before the draft, they were close. But on draft day, Olesz lagged far behind Malkin and Barker. Ovechkin and Malkin were the definitive #'s 1 & 2, with Barker being the consensus 3rd choice.

JJ68NYR 08-30-2004 01:16 PM

They did get there top goalie but they already had Blackburn and Lundqvist, both of which will be number 1 goalies at one point or another because they are that good of prospects. Tukonen was the one i really wanted and then we could have came out still with korpikoski later which would have been great because then we would have drafted two 1st line linemates from the finland team. I'm just trying to like montoya and hope that sather and crew maybe made the right decision.

Somebody said that if those two turned out to wat there supposed to be and then have Olver, Dubinsky, or Graham turn out good (nevermind the rest) then the draft is a smash hit. I dont think it would be one of those three. i think bahensky looks pretty damm good and he might be the diamond in the rough.

SingnBluesOnBroadway 08-30-2004 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJ68NYR
They did get there top goalie but they already had Blackburn and Lundqvist, both of which will be number 1 goalies at one point or another because they are that good of prospects. Tukonen was the one i really wanted and then we could have came out still with korpikoski later which would have been great because then we would have drafted two 1st line linemates from the finland team. I'm just trying to like montoya and hope that sather and crew maybe made the right decision.

While I hated the pick (Montoya) I began to come around after I read more and thought more. While I would probably not have picked Montoya, I understand the pick. Blackburn and Lundqvist are good prospects but they are just that. Blackburn missed an entire season because of an injury and there still is no real news that he is completely healed and healthy. Lundqvist has never played in North America on the smaller ice surface. He has not demonstrated that he can yet. Personally, my biggest concern is how he will adapt to the increase traffiic in front of him. It is what has been the biggest obsticle that European goalies have faced after they come over.

Because neither Blackbur nor Lundqvist are a lock, the pick does make some sense. What gives me the most hope is the Rangers got two of the guys they wanted where they wanted. They really didn't reach for a player or take a player too soon. When that happens and you get the guys you want that bodes well.

Levitate 08-30-2004 02:04 PM

i think the rangers are worried about blackburn quite a bit really...and if he can't recover or whatever then all they're left with is lundqvist who has never played in NA...they're not sure how he'll adjust. i think he'll do fine but as a manager, that's not a good thing to rely blindly upon

i wasn't a fan either but i also think of it this way...if it ends up that montoya is the next great starting goaltender for the rangers, it was better than ANYONE else the rangers could have picked at that point.

in the hall 08-30-2004 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by True Blue
Maybe 3 months before the draft, they were close. But on draft day, Olesz lagged far behind Malkin and Barker. Ovechkin and Malkin were the definitive #'s 1 & 2, with Barker being the consensus 3rd choice.

We were talking about preseason-midseason

Kubera55 08-30-2004 03:57 PM

Hall - Eh, go back to the begining of the year. Or probably even the year before. Olesz was a major, major prospect. Malkin shows up, but even at the start of this year he was considered by many to be behind Olesz. Now, Olesz took a big drop at the wrong time (all those scoreless games) but it's still nerve racking.

And if you aren't aware, I practically lead the charge for BPA over on Bird's boards... I actually really love what I've read on Montoya.

But Olesz makes me nervous. We'll see.

Also, let me second the opinion that this draft is encouraging because the Rangers got two players fairly universally rated as 'good value' at their positions. Normally I don't care much what McKeens or RLR say, outside of a 'big mover' or two in the top part of the first. But in a year in which Blake Wheeler went 5th and Schwarz dropped into the middle-teens... well it's nice to see that the Rangers at least had some back-up for their opinions.

Final thought - This draft is a smashing success if the Rangers get one star, two above average everyday players, and role players and trading fodder. The success rate of all players drafted is well below 50%. Even first rounders are about as likely to fail as they are to succeed. So if Montoya OR Korpikowski is a star, and two of the four 2nd rounders pan out as 'core players' (which would be well above average for 2nd rounders) then the Rangers did great work. Search the Rangers draft history and see how many years they picked up a star and two other real players. It doesn't happen often.

Bure9* 08-30-2004 04:00 PM

Did the Rangers ever consider taking Schwartz over Montoya? What made them like Montoya more?

Kubera55 08-30-2004 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bure9
Did the Rangers ever consider taking Schwartz over Montoya? What made them like Montoya more?

They didn't talk about it during the show, at least that I know.

Though, I'd imagine the answer would be: Montoya has played North American Hockey his entire life. He's bigger. He's got more experience (year older). And he's a puck-hanlder.

Schwarz was supposed to be like a mini-Hasek. The best pure-puck-stopper in the draft, but he didn't bring much else to the table. Montoya is more versatile.

But that's just based on what I've read about the two.

Edge 08-30-2004 04:40 PM

I think it also important to remind everyone a point that was brought out that has been overlooked as everyone drools over how stacked the Rangers are in goal.

Blackburn won't be back till November at the earliest, most likely December. That gives him approx. 4-6 months to get back into the grind. After that he is cannot be sent down without clearing waivers.

Suffice to say I don't think the Rangers are looking at Blackburn as their goalie of the future. I think they are looking to raise his stock enough that they can something of a return for him.

barnaby63 08-30-2004 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edge
I think it also important to remind everyone a point that was brought out that has been overlooked as everyone drools over how stacked the Rangers are in goal.

Blackburn won't be back till November at the earliest, most likely December. That gives him approx. 4-6 months to get back into the grind. After that he is cannot be sent down without clearing waivers.

Suffice to say I don't think the Rangers are looking at Blackburn as their goalie of the future. I think they are looking to raise his stock enough that they can something of a return for him.

I agree.

Too bad, the kid had a ton of potential and the Rangers hurt his career bad.

Levitate 08-30-2004 05:55 PM

i think blackburn would have been ok if he hadn't got injured...a full year in the AHL would have done wonders for him i think. it was said he was looking reallllly good in the calgary camp right before he got injured. that injury and how long it's taken to recover has really effed him up

AG9NK35DT8* 08-30-2004 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edge
Suffice to say I don't think the Rangers are looking at Blackburn as their goalie of the future. I think they are looking to raise his stock enough that they can something of a return for him.

sorry to say but i think just the opposite, i think they are higher on blackburn just more nervous about the injury he suffered and if it can be a thing for his whole carreer, i think montoya was an insurance move just to see how things go down the road 2 -3 years from now if blackburn can stay healthy consistantly. and if he does if montoya plays great ahl hockey even gets a shot called up to the nhl and looks good, he will be the one moved, thats imo. he can bring back quality fwd that nyr might not have maybe a topline center or wing or what ever there need at the time is.

Edge 08-30-2004 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AG9NK35DT8
sorry to say but i think just the opposite, i think they are higher on blackburn just more nervous about the injury he suffered and if it can be a thing for his whole carreer, i think montoya was an insurance move just to see how things go down the road 2 -3 years from now if blackburn can stay healthy consistantly. and if he does if montoya plays great ahl hockey even gets a shot called up to the nhl and looks good, he will be the one moved, thats imo. he can bring back quality fwd that nyr might not have maybe a topline center or wing or what ever there need at the time is.

But you have to take into consideration that he's missed a year and can only play in the AHL for 6 months at most. He HAS to make the next year whether he's progressed or not. That's not really an ideal situation. It's not like leaving him in the AHL for two years will do the trick, because it's not an option. Essentially he has six months to get back into game shape AND develop as a player. Sorry to say that but is a very tall order for someone who won't have played a game in a year and a half by the time he takes the ice. At 21/22 it's very hard to make up for that much lost time. It's even harder when you'd have to clear waivers.

I agree with levitate in that the injury is what really killed him I think. Make no mistake the Rangers didn't exactly bring him along the best way possible, but the injury was the big one. A prospect in his early 20's just doesnt stand the best odds when he misses that much time. And i dont doubt for one minute that the Rangers know more than they are letting on about this and that is one reason they took Montoya.

NYRangers 08-30-2004 07:10 PM

Hopefully at least the Rangers can learn from Blackburn and how they rushed him. Montoya might be ready next year and that might be the right move, Im not sure. But hopefully the organization learned that (any positional players) can be hurt from rushing them into the league when there not ready.

Edge 08-30-2004 07:13 PM

I personally think Blackburn would have been just fine without the injury.

If anything this highlights a need to change the age limits with hockey's development levels.

A kid like Blackburn is in a tough situation. He was too good for the WHL at that point, but probably not ready for the NHL. The AHL would have been a logical choice but it wasn't an option.

To me these are some of the small mistakes the sport is making that don't help its cause.

jas 08-30-2004 08:49 PM

The impression I get is that Rangers' brass sees Montoya as the next Mike Richter - a big game goalie, with a big city personality, and leadership qualities galore.

jas 08-30-2004 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by True Blue
due to the fact that they feel that they struck gold in the first round. In their minds, the draft is already a success due to the fact that they are 100% certain that they god a franchise goalie and a top 6 forward. Heck, if they are right about Montoya and Korpikoski, if just one of Graham, Dubinsky or Olver works out (nevermind the rest even), then the draft is a smash hit.

To me, aside from Montoya and Korpikoski, the guys I'm really high on are Graham and Bahensky. I don't think it's a coincidence that both players were mentioned by Renney in his wrap up from Calgary. The guys like Olver and Ryan are the wild cards. Graham and Bahensky, OTOH, seem to have NHL frames.


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