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LadyStanley 10-18-2011 12:43 AM

Phoenix XL - Rich Man's World
 
Previous thread: http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=969729



http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=378347

From McKenzie:

Quote:

At some point in the not-too-distant future, it's expected the NHL will endorse one of two groups that are currently showing some interest in the purchase of the franchise for the purposes of keeping it in Phoenix.

One group is headed up by former San Jose Shark president Greg Jamison and the other involves sports magnate Jerry Reinsdorf, who's been in and out of this process almost from the beginning. Right now, he's back in apparently. Jamison's group would appear to be the underdog; Reinsdorf's group the favorite.

dronald 10-18-2011 05:51 AM

Not too distant future eh... Sounds promising!

CGG 10-18-2011 06:28 AM

Come on, we've been waiting so long for thread # 40 so we could see "Phoenix XL" on the screen. Let us have it!

Mungman 10-18-2011 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dronald (Post 38085605)
Not too distant future eh... Sounds promising!

imminent!

dronald 10-18-2011 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CGG (Post 38085811)
Come on, we've been waiting so long for thread # 40 so we could see "Phoenix XL" on the screen. Let us have it!

Next thread:

Phoenix XL (THE XTRA LARGE EDITION)

htpwn 10-18-2011 02:30 PM

It is interesting that Reinsdorf's group is the favorite over Jamison's. Hasn't he tried to close a deal on two separate occasions, failing to come to an agreement on either?

Confucius 10-18-2011 02:45 PM

I thought after January 1st, it would be too late for the schedule makers, again. I'm just guessing here but Reinsdorf is probably not a serious bidder. Rather he is just being used or allowing himself to be used to try to at least get a couple of dollars out of Jamison's group. No different than the league having a city ready to accept a team.

goyotes 10-18-2011 02:59 PM

Looks to be about 13,000 or so for tonight against the Blackhawks.

As a Coyote fan, I am personally disgusted at this point. The ownership issue looms large, but the team has begun to market itself in the last couple of weeks, and has been featured on television news sport segments several times recently (probably because the Cards stink this year and the no NBA so no Suns to talk about). There is no excuse for this game to not be close to a sellout, IMO.

The only thing I will say is there are less discounted tickets being sold (discounted tickets on the skelper market but no deals from the Coyotes), so fans are being asked to pay prices closer to NHL levels in most markets.

The fans sure aren't making it easier for an owner to sweep in and purchase this team.

Scottrocks58* 10-18-2011 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hockeyhopeful (Post 38100229)
I thought after January 1st, it would be too late for the schedule makers, again. I'm just guessing here but Reinsdorf is probably not a serious bidder. Rather he is just being used or allowing himself to be used to try to at least get a couple of dollars out of Jamison's group. No different than the league having a city ready to accept a team.

You must not be familiar with Reinsdorf. Reinsdorf is no one's pushover. He doesn't allow himself to be used for someone else's benefit.

Killion 10-18-2011 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htpwn (Post 38099649)
It is interesting that Reinsdorf's group is the favorite over Jamison's. Hasn't he tried to close a deal on two separate occasions, failing to come to an agreement on either?

Ya, the first time during the Moyes BK; the 2nd time when the COG rejected his MOU when he included a perfectly reasonable out-clause, the city then demanding a 35yr agreement, opting to run with IEH who also demanded exclusive negotiating rights. Brilliant move by the Mayor & Council. This couldve' been wrapped up & done ages ago.

Confucius 10-18-2011 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scottrocks58 (Post 38100783)
You must not be familiar with Reinsdorf. Reinsdorf is no one's pushover. He doesn't allow himself to be used for someone else's benefit.

I wish I could remember what his exact words were when he bowed out of the process when it looked like Ice Edge was going to get a deal done.

Something like I was glad to have been of service.......
Edit to add
Or it may have been, I was glad to have helped..

Killion 10-18-2011 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hockeyhopeful (Post 38101543)
Something like I was glad to be of service.......

"My MOU speaks for itself"... :squint::lightning

kdb209 10-18-2011 03:27 PM

How we got here ...
 
If only Moyes had listened:

Polonius: Neither a borrower nor a lender be, Do not forget, stay out of debt;
Think twice, and take this good advice from me, guard that old solvency.
There's just one more thing you ought to do, to thine own self be true.

All: Neither a borrower nor a lender be, Do not forget, stay out of debt;
Think twice, and take this good advice from me, guard that old solvency.
There's just one more thing you ought to do, to thine own self be true.


12-08-2008 Hockey in The Desert (Phoenix franchise and finance/business matters)
02-04-2009 Hockey in the Desert II (Phoenix Coyotes franchise and business matters)

05-05-2009 Balsillie puts in $212.5 mil offer for the Coyotes
05-07-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix part II
05-18-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix part III
05-22-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix part IV
06-03-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix part V
06-09-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix Part VI
06-12-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix Part VII: I'm just waitin' on a judge
06-16-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix Part VIII: It's dead, Jim
06-24-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix Part IX: 'Dorf on Hockey
07-25-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part X: The Truth? You Can't Handle The Truth!
08-03-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XI: A Fistful of Dollars?
08-07-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XII: For a Few Dollars More
08-12-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XIII: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly
08-21-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XIV: The Wrath of Baum
08-27-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XV - SITREP: SNAFU
09-02-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XVI: Barbarian at the Gate
09-08-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XVII: Wake Me Up When September Ends
09-10-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XVIII: Is that a pale horse in the distance?
09-12-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy Part XIX: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Baum
09-21-2009 Phoenix Bankruptcy Part XX: There Will Be Baum
09-28-2009 Phoenix Bankruptcy Part XXI: 2009 -- A Sports Odyssey
10-26-2009 Phoenix Bankruptcy Part XXII: Long and winding road

11-24-2009 Keeping up with potential owners for NHL Phoenix Coyotes (UPD: Ice Edge signs LOI)
03-14-2010 Part II. Potential owners of NHL's Phoenix Coyotes
03-26-2010 Part III. Prospective Owners - Phoenix Coyotes (UPD Lease vote 4/13; IEH signs MOU)
04-10-2010 Part IV Phoenix Coyotes post bankrtuptcy; UPD COG approves Reinsdorf MOU, not IEH MOU
05-02-2010 Part V Phoenix Coyotes post bankruptcy UPD Reinsdorf out? IEH back in? else Winnipeg?
05-11-2010 Part VI Phoenix Coyotes post bankruptcy
05-23-2010 Part VII Phoenix Coyotes post bankrtuptcy
06-07-2010 Part VIII: Phoenix Coyotes Post-bankrtuptcy
06-22-2010 Part IX: Phoenix Coyotes Post-bankruptcy UPD: Pres Moss fired 6/30 with IEH input
07-26-2010 Part X: Phoenix Coyotes - Between Scylla and Charybdis
08-27-2010 Part XI: Phoenix Coyotes -- Greetings, Starfighter, You have been selected ...
09-16-2010 Part XII: Phx Coyotes - Still haven't found what I'm looking for
10-12-2010 Part XIII: Phoenix Coyotes - The Final Cut?
10-27-2010 Part XIV: Phoenix Coyotes - To Infinity And Beyond....
12-05-2010 Part XV: Phoenix - the battle of evermore
12-14-2010 Part XVI: Phoenix -- Money for Nothing
12-20-2010 Part XVII: Phoenix -- Thread Title Available For Lease
01-09-2011 Part XVIII: Phoenix -- Imminence Front
01-24-2011 Phoenix XIXth: Nervous Breakdown
02-02-2011 Phoenix XX: Two weeks
02-11-2011 Phoenix XXI: When will then be now?
02-22-2011 Phoenix XXII: It's Now or Never
02-28-2011 Phoenix XXIII - Bond: The Phoenix Project
03-03-2011 Phoenix XXIV: How many twists does the scriptwriter have left?
03-07-2011 Phoenix XXV: Anyone in the theatre seen a pale horse?
03-08-2011 Phoenix XXVI: Pain in the AZ
03-11-2011 Phoenix XXVII: Can we all get along?
03-16-2011 Phoenix XXVIII: Lawyers, Bonds and Money
03-20-2011 Phoenix XXIX: What's the next act? I'm tired of the dog & pony show
03-22-2011 Phoenix Part XXX Hulz, you gotta get a gimmick if you want to get ahead
03-27-2011 Phoenix Part XXXI: I feel I'm in a time loop
04-05-2011 Phoenix Part XXXII: Bridge over Troubled Goldwater
04-14-2011 Phoenix XXXIII: Sound of Silence
04-20-2011 Phoenix XXXIV: Project Mayhem
04-25-2011 Phoenix XXXV: Several Species of Small Furry Animals Gathered Together in a Cave...
05-03-2011 Phoenix XXXVI - There's got to be a morning after
05-10-2011 Phoenix XXXVII - The Heat is On

Followed by the Interregnum between Kings Phoenix the XXXVII-th and Phoenix the XXXVIII-th:

[PYTHON]
The most interesting thing about King Charles, the first
Is that he was 5 foot 6 inches tall at the start of his reign
But only 4 foot 8 inches tall at the end of it because of
Oliver Cromwell, Lord Protector of England Puritan
Born in 1599 and died in 1658 September
[/PYTHON]

06-09-2011 ESPN's Burnside: Hulsizer submitted new deal; COG city manager dragging it out
06-20-2011 Coyotes related: Westgate faces foreclosure
06-21-2011 Phoenix, worst case scenario


Finally, the realm was restored ...

06-27-2011 Phoenix XXXVIII: Hulsizer Pulls Bid For Coyotes
08-16-2011 Phoenix XXXIX: You Never Give Me Your Money
10-18-2-11 Phoenix XL: Rich Man's World

Confucius 10-18-2011 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killion (Post 38101823)
"My MOU speaks for itself"... :squint::lightning

As usual, I don't have a clue what you mean. :help:

headsigh 10-18-2011 03:37 PM

You could even say that a resolution could be found in...

Two weeks.

Killion 10-18-2011 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hockeyhopeful (Post 38101955)
As usual, I don't have a clue what you mean. :help:

:biglaugh: Neither do I, so I guess were even...

Thats what JR said when asked by a reporter
what he had to say about his exit, followed by
"no further comment at this time"...

Scottrocks58* 10-18-2011 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hockeyhopeful (Post 38101543)
I wish I could remember what his exact words were when he bowed out of the process when it looked like Ice Edge was going to get a deal done.

Something like I was glad to have been of service.......
Edit to add
Or it may have been, I was glad to have helped..

Politically correct. That's how I remember it. He was ever gracious.

objectiveposter 10-18-2011 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killion (Post 38101033)
Ya, the first time during the Moyes BK; the 2nd time when the COG rejected his MOU when he included a perfectly reasonable out-clause, the city then demanding a 35yr agreement, opting to run with IEH who also demanded exclusive negotiating rights. Brilliant move by the Mayor & Council. This couldve' been wrapped up & done ages ago.

it wasnt just the number of years on the lease glendale had a problem with...it was also the absurd and unrealistic amount of money that needed to be generated through the cfd.

a lot has changed in the past year or so
1)glendale has found a way to subsidize 25/year directly to team without breaking the law
2)it appears glendale is willing to go with a shorter 7 year out clause
3)speculation that the league may use some of the atlanta relocation money to lower asking price

none of these were in play a year ago..it completely changes the landscape...thats why a deal will likely get done this time
2)

Killion 10-18-2011 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by objectiveposter (Post 38103061)
it wasnt just the number of years on the lease glendale had a problem with...it was also the absurd and unrealistic amount of money that needed to be generated through the cfd.

1)glendale has found a way to subsidize 25/year directly to team without breaking the law
2)it appears glendale is willing to go with a shorter 7 year out clause
3)speculation that the league may use some of the atlanta relocation money to lower asking price

none of these were in play a year ago..it completely changes the landscape...thats why a deal will likely get done this time

Ya, I agree that it'll likely get done... couple of points/questions;

1) The GWI has not dropped the bone on that $25M per annum "Arena Mgmnt Fee" & I rather doubt the COG will be willing to be so generous post 11-12. Even if it isnt challenged. Therefore, I'd expect to see that re-negotiated, possibly with JR or Jamison also receiving transfer of the AMUL signed lasy May between the NHL & the COG or possibly a completely new AMULA.

2) If the new owner works under the NHL/COG AMUL there is no rush to negotiate & sign a fully blown AMULA, JR/GJ having the right to relo anytime they wish over the next 9yrs. If they do negotiate a fully blown AMULA, then yes, 5-7yrs would be sensible.

3) Also agree that if the league applies the $60M relo fee from TNSE along with Terms, much more attractive & doable. Question though; is the $60M included in HRR and therefore subject to the NHLPA receiving 57% of it or are relocation & or expansion fee's separate from the existing CBA?...

Finally, with respect to Reinsdorfs 2nd round of negotiations, and though moot now, wasnt he also asking that the COG "Guarantee" as in cover any shortfalls in the CFD, or was that IEH?. Regardless, its certainly not germane today as as you've pointed out the landscapes shifted considerably; never mind the fact that Westgate's still a question mark & the implementation of a CFD at this moment in time virtually impossible.

Tinalera 10-18-2011 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killion (Post 38103787)
Ya, I agree that it'll likely get done... couple of points/questions;

1) The GWI has not dropped the bone on that $25M per annum "Arena Mgmnt Fee" & I rather doubt the COG will be willing to be so generous post 11-12. Even if it isnt challenged. Therefore, I'd expect to see that re-negotiated, possibly with JR or Jamison also receiving transfer of the AMUL signed lasy May between the NHL & the COG or possibly a completely new AMULA.

2) If the new owner works under the NHL/COG AMUL there is no rush to negotiate & sign a fully blown AMULA, JR/GJ having the right to relo anytime they wish over the next 9yrs. If they do negotiate a fully blown AMULA, then yes, 5-7yrs would be sensible.

3) Also agree that if the league applies the $60M relo fee from TNSE along with Terms, much more attractive & doable. Question though; is the $60M included in HRR and therefore subject to the NHLPA receiving 57% of it or are relocation & or expansion fee's separate from the existing CBA?...

Finally, with respect to Reinsdorfs 2nd round of negotiations, and though moot now, wasnt he also asking that the COG "Guarantee" as in cover any shortfalls in the CFD, or was that IEH?. Regardless, its certainly not germane today as as you've pointed out the landscapes shifted considerably; never mind the fact that Westgate's still a question mark & the implementation of a CFD at this moment in time virtually impossible.

Agree with all of this. I think to sum it all up, it changed things when the NHL essentially grabbed the leverage needed and took it out of CoG's hands. It seems to be pretty much set up where the buyer negotiates with the NHL, and if the CoG tries playing hardball, the NHL takes ITS ball (Yotes franchise) and proceeds to take it elsewhere. The CoG is pretty much in a position now where they either play nicely and work with NHL/new owners, or they get to figure out how to fill all those dates at the Job without hockey. As you and others have said, the landscape has changed so much now as far as the less red tape for potential owners to go through.

dronald 10-18-2011 05:35 PM

Quote:

No, it is not true. You are wrong. The Goldwater Institute is an organization that likes to inject itself when it believes taxpayers are getting screwed. If it comes down to concessions to keep the team versus losing the team and getting LESS return on the investment already made by the taxpayers, they'll join the city's fight to keep the team here.

There are plenty of other straws to grasp, so drop GI. It doesn't help your argument unless your boy JB is going to pay Glendale $500M so he can go play in SO. Glendale will happily take that check and GI will find another fight.
First page from, "It's dead Jim" I had a good laugh, if only he were right.

Killion 10-18-2011 05:45 PM

"Its dead Jim, whatever it was"...
Doctor McCoy

Whileee 10-18-2011 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killion (Post 38103787)
Ya, I agree that it'll likely get done... couple of points/questions;

1) The GWI has not dropped the bone on that $25M per annum "Arena Mgmnt Fee" & I rather doubt the COG will be willing to be so generous post 11-12. Even if it isnt challenged. Therefore, I'd expect to see that re-negotiated, possibly with JR or Jamison also receiving transfer of the AMUL signed lasy May between the NHL & the COG or possibly a completely new AMULA.

2) If the new owner works under the NHL/COG AMUL there is no rush to negotiate & sign a fully blown AMULA, JR/GJ having the right to relo anytime they wish over the next 9yrs. If they do negotiate a fully blown AMULA, then yes, 5-7yrs would be sensible.

3) Also agree that if the league applies the $60M relo fee from TNSE along with Terms, much more attractive & doable. Question though; is the $60M included in HRR and therefore subject to the NHLPA receiving 57% of it or are relocation & or expansion fee's separate from the existing CBA?...

Finally, with respect to Reinsdorfs 2nd round of negotiations, and though moot now, wasnt he also asking that the COG "Guarantee" as in cover any shortfalls in the CFD, or was that IEH?. Regardless, its certainly not germane today as as you've pointed out the landscapes shifted considerably; never mind the fact that Westgate's still a question mark & the implementation of a CFD at this moment in time virtually impossible.

This is going to be tricky, I think.

My guess is that the NHL will go ahead and select one of the groups for a sale (probably JR), and then the pressure will be on Glendale (again). As Killion notes above, I would not be so sure that the $25 million is there for the taking, especially if there is a bona fide "out clause" in several years. Never mind the GWI, does anyone think that the Glendale City council can really stomach the idea of providing a cool $25 million annually for the next 5-7 years without some assurance of the long-term security of having the Coyotes? It would be absolutely unforgivable if they paid out $100-150 million over the next several years only to have the team leave anyway.

Nope. I think we are going to go back to the dance of long-term lease lock vs. level of subsidy. Substantially lowering the price of the franchise might be the only way of breaking that log-jam, but then the NHL could have done that first time around with Reinsdorf when he was the only option after Glendale had initially punted IEH to the curb.

OttawaRoughRiderFan* 10-18-2011 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whileee (Post 38107071)
It would be absolutely unforgivable if they paid out $100-150 million over the next several years only to have the team leave anyway.

When a dog has rabies you just have to put it down.

:deadhorse

Tinalera 10-18-2011 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whileee (Post 38107071)
This is going to be tricky, I think.

My guess is that the NHL will go ahead and select one of the groups for a sale (probably JR), and then the pressure will be on Glendale (again). As Killion notes above, I would not be so sure that the $25 million is there for the taking, especially if there is a bona fide "out clause" in several years. Never mind the GWI, does anyone think that the Glendale City council can really stomach the idea of providing a cool $25 million annually for the next 5-7 years without some assurance of the long-term security of having the Coyotes? It would be absolutely unforgivable if they paid out $100-150 million over the next several years only to have the team leave anyway.

Nope. I think we are going to go back to the dance of long-term lease lock vs. level of subsidy. Substantially lowering the price of the franchise might be the only way of breaking that log-jam, but then the NHL could have done that first time around with Reinsdorf when he was the only option after Glendale had initially punted IEH to the curb.

I think the NHL has too much say here, and if CoG tries the old Long term lease and NHL doesn't bite, they may just decide to take the franchise leaving them with the arena. I really don't see CoG having any leverage here unlike times past-it's all in the NHL's hands pretty much. And if potential owner doesn't want to get locked into long term lease, he won't have too.


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