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-   -   Desperate Times Call For (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1008579)

Fred Glover 10-18-2011 10:13 PM

Desperate Times Call For
 
What measure would you take to fix the Jackets? I know that there are Fire the GM and Fire the Coach threads, but my question is: what do you think will happen first? WIll there be a goaltender signing? If so who? A trade, if so who do we trade? I really don't know what to think. If Howson is fired immediately, how does that change things in the near term? If the coach is fired, how will a lame duck coach fix this mess? I could see a trade (Vermette?) but would we get value in return? I would be interested in your intelligent insights. Frankly, I think right now that anything that will be done will be out of desperation and may not help the team near term.

Nanabijou 10-18-2011 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fred Glover (Post 38128903)
What measure would you take to fix the Jackets? I know that there are Fire the GM and Fire the Coach threads, but my question is: what do you think will happen first? WIll there be a goaltender signing? If so who? A trade, if so who do we trade? I really don't know what to think. If Howson is fired immediately, how does that change things in the near term? If the coach is fired, how will a lame duck coach fix this mess? I could see a trade (Vermette?) but would we get value in return? I would be interested in your intelligent insights. Frankly, I think right now that anything that will be done will be out of desperation and may not help the team near term.

I'll vote that Brassard gets traded for some one who can play defence.

Monk 10-18-2011 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fred Glover (Post 38128903)
What measure would you take to fix the Jackets? I know that there are Fire the GM and Fire the Coach threads, but my question is: what do you think will happen first? WIll there be a goaltender signing? If so who? A trade, if so who do we trade? I really don't know what to think. If Howson is fired immediately, how does that change things in the near term? If the coach is fired, how will a lame duck coach fix this mess? I could see a trade (Vermette?) but would we get value in return? I would be interested in your intelligent insights. Frankly, I think right now that anything that will be done will be out of desperation and may not help the team near term.

My vote is actually let all the kids play. Give Mayorov, Johansen, Atkinson, Savard big minutes.

Fro 10-18-2011 10:17 PM

things i keep reading have Brass going to an Eastern Conf team as soon as carter's ready to go...just dunno who would want him and what we would get for him...

MisterC 10-18-2011 10:30 PM

Howson, Arniel, and Priest. All in one fell swoop. This team needs a 2008 Detroit Lions housecleaning.

Hilliardsw55 10-18-2011 10:47 PM

Who knows?

This team is cursed.

No matter what the changes are, the team looks different but it's still the same result.

leesmith 10-18-2011 10:57 PM

We already have Bass on the big club, which I wanted.
Swap Brassard for defense, send Savard back to Springy.
Swap Pahlsson for picks.
Send Martinek to the press box once Wiz returns.

Setting this aside, I think the real problem is behind the bench.

Gagnefan924 10-18-2011 11:02 PM

Brassard showed tonight what he can do when given a chance...not playing 4th line wing. Trade Vermette. I see absolutely nothing from the guy. We could get a solid defender for him and I really like Brass as our #2 guy that can fill in and play with Nash....he does have the best chemistry with him honestly..

FreeBoomer61 10-18-2011 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gagnefan924 (Post 38132693)
Brassard showed tonight what he can do when given a chance...not playing 4th line wing. Trade Vermette. I see absolutely nothing from the guy. We could get a solid defender for him and I really like Brass as our #2 guy that can fill in and play with Nash....he does have the best chemistry with him honestly..

i completely agree with you. well said. brass has such a big upside, and vermy, well, just doesnt (except in the faceoff department). trade vermy for a top 4 dman, trade pahlson (cuz hes a worthless piece of junk in my eyes) for another dman/forward, and once juice is healthy they need to use him as trade bait, too.

Gagnefan924 10-18-2011 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreeBoomer61 (Post 38133289)
i completely agree with you. well said. brass has such a big upside, and vermy, well, just doesnt (except in the faceoff department). trade vermy for a top 4 dman, trade pahlson (cuz hes a worthless piece of junk in my eyes) for another dman/forward, and once juice is healthy they need to use him as trade bait, too.

The more times I see us putting up two goals a game, the more I want to go out a get a forward for Vermette. I think Howson will just wait and see what happens like he usually does during the season :sarcasm:. But really I cant see him making a move until Wiz shows what hes got. Btw, Wiz must feel ****ing horrible about that hit now...thanks shanny! Anyways, how would a guy like Rene Bourque do for us? I dont watch the flames but I remember he usually puts up hat tricks against us :laugh:.

mt-svk 10-19-2011 01:43 AM

We was not whorse in the most of game and we were better the last game too but our scoring... . Plus Lehtonen is a good g-man.

Brassard must be a center when I wrote the wing can play FO somebody of you wrote me it is not right... it was right.

IMO not GM (Howson is not a reason why The Wiz does not play or Carter is injured) or Arniel... nobody would help us. Because nobody would get sit some veterans what is a solution. We need a trade. I do not know whether Vermette because he can play the third line center and Johansen the second. But I would (during Carter injury) let to play Johansen, Mayorov more and call Atkinson and Byers (Dorsett and Pahlsson trade). Mayorov could play PK together with Bass.

Umberger--Brassard--Nash
Prospal--Johansen--Giroux
Mayorov--Vermette--Atkinson
Byers--MacKenzie--Bass

Palinka 10-19-2011 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gagnefan924 (Post 38132693)
Brassard showed tonight what he can do when given a chance...not playing 4th line wing. Trade Vermette. I see absolutely nothing from the guy. We could get a solid defender for him and I really like Brass as our #2 guy that can fill in and play with Nash....he does have the best chemistry with him honestly..

I don't know that I've ever really criticized an active player on the team since Gilbert Brule, but I'm astonished at what's become of Antoine Vermette. I don't know that I've seen such a precipitous decline in the level of play from a guy who should be right around the prime of his career without injuries playing a major role in that. But between last year, which might have been the most invisible 47 points I've ever seen, and this year where he just looks totally lost, I don't know what to make of it.

I'm really at a loss.

blahblah 10-19-2011 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Palinka (Post 38141601)
I don't know that I've ever really criticized an active player on the team since Gilbert Brule, but I'm astonished at what's become of Antoine Vermette. I don't know that I've seen such a precipitous decline in the level of play from a guy who should be right around the prime of his career without injuries playing a major role in that. But between last year, which might have been the most invisible 47 points I've ever seen, and this year where he just looks totally lost, I don't know what to make of it.

I'm really at a loss.

It's interesting you said that, that's one of the things I was thinking about. Dropping him to the 3rd line, Sammy down, Brass up, and taking Vermette off PP duty. Kind of dependent on Carter returning as I'm not sure I want DM playing 2nd line on the road against Detroit.

In general and not to you...

As far as this team goes. My opinion is this team is too comfortable with a 'great group of guys'. Maybe it's time to make them uncomfortable and that doesn't necessarily include bag skates.

I'm not sure I would make a roster change at this point. Removing the coach is where I would start. Find a coach that will make them compete during practice even when they are tired. And this doesn't include the 60 minute fire drill.

pete goegan 10-19-2011 06:42 AM

I agree with you both on Vermette, I've never seen so many odd passes and drops to noone. I don't see what everyone sees in Brass, he's just not a top six center. And Johansen isn't ready for the NHL in any way shape or form. He belongs in Springfield, but Portland will have to do. Then, next year, he starts in Springfield and earns his way up.

As I've posted elsewhere, I don't see either Howson or Arniel getting canned, yet. Shake up? Sure, but a total destruction/rebuild in the first month doesn't seem called for...yet. I hate what's happening as much as anyone and I sure don't know how to fix it. I know that some changes have to come, immediately, and I'd start in goal. Mason isn't able to get it done.

blahblah 10-19-2011 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete goegan (Post 38142629)
I don't see what everyone sees in Brass, he's just not a top six center.

Don't take the suggestion of moving Brass up as a vote of confidence, from me at least.

Samkow 10-19-2011 07:03 AM

Desperate times call for more threads.

Nanabijou 10-19-2011 07:07 AM

I don't know what to think anymore - please tell me the season is not already shot and we're not even a week away from Hallowe'en yet.

There were some concerns about the defense, but everyone basically loved the way this team was shaping up in the summer. There is no reason why this team shouldn't be scoring goals. I just don't get it. Is it chemistry? Is it coaching? This should not be happening.

Here's another desperation move: Mason and Vermette for Luongo. The salaries are close this year, but Luongo has a smaller cap hit, so there might have to be other pieces added to balance the cap. Yes, I know that Luongo has a NTC, and this is one of the biggest millstone contracts out there, but as the title alludes to...

Random detour: after watching the last couple of games, could we seriously not have traded Commodore for Souray during this past off-season? Seems like his bloated contract for a year would be better than paying Commie to play for the Wings.

blahblah 10-19-2011 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nanabijou (Post 38142883)
I don't know what to think anymore - please tell me the season is not already shot and we're not even a week away from Hallowe'en yet.

The season is not already shot and we're not even a week away from Hallowe'en yet.

Quote:

Here's another desperation move: Mason and Vermette for Luongo. The salaries are close this year, but Luongo has a smaller cap hit, so there might have to be other pieces added to balance the cap. Yes, I know that Luongo has a NTC, and this is one of the biggest millstone contracts out there, but as the title alludes to...
I've seen worse ideas. Don't think Van would go for it, but who knows.

Quote:

Random detour: after watching the last couple of games, could we seriously not have traded Commodore for Souray during this past off-season? Seems like his bloated contract for a year would be better than paying Commie to play for the Wings.
I don't know if we could have, but I didn't think either player was done even if both are head cases (one more than the other). I wouldn't call Commie a world beater, but I would rather have him playing for us now then playing in Detroit. Arniel clearly didn't like his style of play, but we were better with him than Stralman. I still find that to be a tactical mistake from last year.

Don't mistake those comments as thinking it would have made much difference in the play last year, just saying I didn't think we needed to banish him.

pete goegan 10-19-2011 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nanabijou (Post 38142883)
I don't know what to think anymore - please tell me the season is not already shot and we're not even a week away from Hallowe'en yet.

There were some concerns about the defense, but everyone basically loved the way this team was shaping up in the summer. There is no reason why this team shouldn't be scoring goals. I just don't get it. Is it chemistry? Is it coaching? This should not be happening.

Nana, I feel your pain and I'm right there with you. This is awful - they're not the same old Jackets, they're different and they still stink. I'm at a loss.

kshymkiw 10-19-2011 07:24 AM

Dump the entire ****ing team.

This team is the laziest bunch of professional athletes I have ever seen. No way should Jamie Benn get that goal. I love Nash's half hearted attempt to lift his stick, and then he stops applying any pressure.

The people making the big dollars on this team are lazy. Get rid of this entire team, and start over.

blahblah 10-19-2011 07:26 AM

At this moment we are a special kind of suck. The type that translates into the only winless team in the NHL. The kind that only has one "cupcake" the rest of the month. You know where that cupcake looks and us thinks were the cupcakes.

We'll probably accidentally win a couple this month. At some point we're bound to play a good game while getting a team on a down night.

KeithBWhittington 10-19-2011 08:07 AM

Unlike in some previous years, there are no quick fixes here. Maybe a room shaking deal will get you a small surge and the team could put together a nice month or two though... I've said before that Wiz coming back in a few games should help immensely, this could look like a different team with him on the ice, they need to win at least one before then though.....

I know some people may not believe it, but the playoffs are still possible, but this thing needs to be righted and sustain said righting in a hurry.

Gagnefan924 10-19-2011 08:17 AM

I'd explore Vermette for Bobrovsky.

Crisp Breakout 10-19-2011 08:28 AM

Honestly? I'd deal Rick Nash for a young, top-pairing defender. (Thinking J. Johnson + Bernier, something like that).

kshymkiw 10-19-2011 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gagnefan924 (Post 38143915)
I'd explore Vermette for Bobrovsky.

Would not be bad, but you would also want to move Mason. You would have 3 goalies on one-way contracts, Dex, Mason, Bobs. Don't need all of that. If you could do a Vermette for Bobs, and a Mason for something deal, it wouldn't be too bad. You are pretty much relying on Johansen at this point to step up and play 2nd or 4th line center full time. After his performance last night, I wouldn't be doing that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crisp Breakout (Post 38144171)
Honestly? I'd deal Rick Nash for a young, top-pairing defender. (Thinking J. Johnson + Bernier, something like that).

I like Nash, but man is he lazy. He finally went out and started hitting, but on that Benn goal it just shows how lazy he is at back checking. I don't know if I would move Nash yet.


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