HFBoards

HFBoards (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/index.php)
-   Montreal Canadiens (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/forumdisplay.php?f=16)
-   -   How would you feel about Tanking? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1008719)

Jimmym007 10-19-2011 12:25 AM

How would you feel about Tanking?
 
Am I the only one who's happier and happier everytime I see habs lose? Don't get me wrong, I'm a die hard habs fan and would love more than seeing a cup in mtl in my lifetime, but when I see 2012 draft prospects and habs losing record, I can't help but to see a much brighter future.

We need change, defensive system is boring and clearly isn't working with the defense we have (most of them being offensive dmen except for Gill and Gorges). We need an offensive coach and size, but it doesn't cut it with the guys we have. We'll have to change the team all over and rebuild from the start. PG doesn't want that I'm sure, but I believe that we'll never win a cup with this team. Rebuilding starts with one franchise player and building around him. We thought about Price, hence why we built a defensive system around him. It worked not too bad, but still not good enough. We need a star that can score, because right now, when we're getting scored on, we have nobody that can tie the game up. When we happen to have the lead, we defend it. This whole mentality has to change, too. When we have to rely on guys like pacioretty when we're down by a goal, that's a good sign you need quality goal scorers.

Habs should stop drafting defensemen in the first round from now on. We've got enough now, it keeps us from drafting potential top 6 forwards.

The question I'd like to ask you guys is, how would you feel if habs plan was to tank this year? Not saying it was even mentionned by anybody in the habs organisation, but would you mind to "fail for nail" for the entire season knowing what the upcoming years would look like? Would you rather trade for a first overall pick (We have nothing close to being worth of a 1st overall in 2012 though).

I saw a lot of "habs and sens will fight for the 1st overall pick this year" or "Coyotes and Montreal won't have more than 25 wins this season" comments. It's the first time I see comments underrating the habs at that point, even if the authors of these quotes are nowhere near credible, people around the league seem to think we're going to finish in the bottom 5. I don't particularly share their opinions, but I'd like to hear what you guys have to say about that.



This is not a panic thread or a ranting on the habs current performance. It's an personnal review and personnal questions I've asked myself, please discuss without flaming and judging. Thank you.

Lemons 10-19-2011 12:27 AM

I dont care what anyone says, But i would have gladly traded away 3 first rounds ex. Leblanc, Tinordi, and Beaulieu for a godlike superstar 3 years ago.

Cause like our last 20 years of drafting firsts (other than koivu) they are probably going to turn out busts (thats our luck/skill at drafting)


Whens the last time we have had a consistant PPG player, 2-3+ seasons ? I cant even remember? Damphousse ... **** man.

Ollie Williams 10-19-2011 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmym007 (Post 38138963)
Am I the only one who's happier and happier everytime I see habs lose? Don't get me wrong, I'm a die hard habs fan and would love more than seeing a cup in mtl in my lifetime, but when I see 2012 draft prospects and habs losing record, I can't help but to see a much brighter future.

We need change, defensive system is boring and clearly isn't working with the defense we have (most of them being offensive dmen except for Gill and Gorges). We need an offensive coach and size, but it doesn't cut it with the guys we have. We'll have to change the team all over and rebuild from the start. PG doesn't want that I'm sure, but I believe that we'll never win a cup with this team. Rebuilding starts with one franchise player and building around him. We thought about Price, hence why we built a defensive system around him. It worked not too bad, but still not good enough. We need a star that can score, because right now, when we're getting scored on, we have nobody that can tie the game up. When we happen to have the lead, we defend it. This whole mentality has to change, too. When we have to rely on guys like pacioretty when we're down by a goal, that's a good sign you need quality goal scorers.

Habs should stop drafting defensemen in the first round from now on. We've got enough now, it keeps us from drafting potential top 6 forwards.

The question I'd like to ask you guys is, how would you feel if habs plan was to tank this year? Not saying it was even mentionned by anybody in the habs organisation, but would you mind to "fail for nail" for the entire season knowing what the upcoming years would look like? Would you rather trade for a first overall pick (We have nothing close to being worth of a 1st overall in 2012 though).

I saw a lot of "habs and sens will fight for the 1st overall pick this year" or "Coyotes and Montreal won't have more than 25 wins this season" comments. It's the first time I see comments underrating the habs at that point, even if the authors of these quotes are nowhere near credible, people around the league seem to think we're going to finish in the bottom 5. I don't particularly share their opinions, but I'd like to hear what you guys have to say about that.



This is not a panic thread or a ranting on the habs current performance. It's an personnal review and personnal questions I've asked myself, please discuss without flaming and judging. Thank you.

Of course not. You're not the only non-habs fan on the planet...

Ohashi_Jouzu 10-19-2011 12:46 AM

Not an option, nor do I want it to ever be one. Team wouldn't have to tank if management were able to correctly identify which players are key contributors in the group and keep them, instead of moving them to make room for direct replacements, most of whom will have an unknown impact on the group as a whole. Which is to say, stop gambling on getting rid of and improving what already works, and keep the working parts and upgrade the rest instead. Yeah, I know... novel.

The Russian General 10-19-2011 12:47 AM

No. If we do suck, we do suck. But no tanking please. It's a disgrace. Always thought that rewarding mediocrity is not really the way to go but whatever.

One Trick Pony 10-19-2011 12:47 AM

I'm not exactly happy, but if we're not going to make the playoffs I hope we finish in the bottom for once.

Jimmym007 10-19-2011 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eliash (Post 38139667)
I'm not exactly happy, but if we're not going to make the playoffs I hope we finish in the bottom for once.

I agree with this all the way.

And whoever said I'm not a habs fan did not read past the first sentence.

Andros777 10-19-2011 12:54 AM

I WOULD love to get Nathan Mackinnon next year, but I wouldn't tank.

There are a few guys on this team, Mike Cammalleri first and foremost, who believe in this team and who made huge commitments and took big risks signing here. And it would seem to me to be a really classless act to break faith with those guys and waste a year of their careers, so we can draft our superstar, who they won't even get the benefit of playing with because they'll be passing on when we're done with this refit/rebuild whatever you want to call it. Some of these guys have a limited amount of time to win their cup, and they decided to risk it with us. That means something to me because it's not like we're a successful franchise. Guys sign here and play here because the franchise promises them that we're going to try to win.

Obviously the franchise doesn't really owe Gomez anything, or any of the other guys who have underperformed, but Cammalleri and Plekanec...unless we could find an absolutely amazing new place to play for them somewhere else, even then I don't know if I'd do it.

I wouldn't humiliate a guy like Cammalleri like that, call me sentimental.

Ollie Williams 10-19-2011 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmym007 (Post 38139723)
I agree with this all the way.

And whoever said I'm not a habs fan did not read past the first sentence.

I read the whole thing. If you're happy when the Habs lose, it doesn't matter whether you claim you're a Habs fan or not because it speaks for itself.

OneSharpMarble 10-19-2011 12:55 AM

Our core is getting older and older. Markov, Cammalleri, Gionta will all be gone in a couple seasons. Tanking now will not help for several years, even #1 picks need time to become useful.

giovannicanella 10-19-2011 01:02 AM

"We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender" Churchill

The policy of tanking is a ridulously flawed policy that would leave most of our players the management and the fans in a horrible state of mind, it would be the equivalent of not caring. After the tanking policy is over how can you expect the team to re-adjust and return to elite levels of compete. A habs fan Not caring for our club is the gravest of betrayals.
As a coach, GM and even as a fan if you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem, not caring for the team unit to win is a cancerous element that needs to be removed, for example individual career concerns rather than the team...Sergei Kostitsyn Redux.

I recognize the fanbase is hurting but all this dooms-day mongering demonstrates a lack of knowledge.

Aceekay 10-19-2011 01:19 AM

It depends on who the #1 player is at the draft.

It would be nice to finally get a player who can get over 80 points consistently.

Does anybody know the last time we got a first overall pick?

MasterDecoy 10-19-2011 01:28 AM

Montreal doesn't tank. Period.

And besides, it's not unrealistic to say that it would greatly affect our ability to sign future UFAs

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aceekay (Post 38140439)
It depends on who the #1 player is at the draft.

It would be nice to finally get a player who can get over 80 points consistently.

Does anybody know the last time we got a first overall pick?

If I'm wrong someone correct me but I remember someone saying 'never'. But wasn't lafleur a first overall?

Meh, I'm rambling...

LyricalLyricist 10-19-2011 01:30 AM

Tanking really isn't required. I have little interest in watching habs lose. That being said, should they lose, there is only one request I have beyond the scope of a high draft pick. TRADE YOUR ****ING VETEREANS AT THE DEADLINE! It's a pet peeve of mine if I end up seeing guys like gill, spacek, moen, etc.. retained and lost. Trade them for a 2nd round pick, a 5th rounder, whatever. Why? Like craig rivet, we got gorges AND pacioretty. I do not expect that sort of return every time but logically, even if we get a young player with top 6 upside and size but a project, i dont mind, he may never work out but anything to add to the potential success of future teams is ideal.

Basically, come trade deadline, if we're losing, change philosophy. If we're in a competitive spot, then continue as is. The goal of management should never be to lose, it should be to win and make the playoffs. Even in the face of elimination after being sellers, you preach winning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterDecoy (Post 38140631)
Montreal doesn't tank. Period.

And besides, it's not unrealistic to say that it would greatly affect our ability to sign future UFAs



If I'm wrong someone correct me but I remember someone saying 'never'. But wasn't lafleur a first overall?

Meh, I'm rambling...

Yah, for the better. While I'm not saying tank because I find it stupid you have to consider if you get a top player to build around, yeah, you may not get UFA flooding over next year, but when the kid develops people will want to play with him.

Aceekay 10-19-2011 01:36 AM

I would cheat and force our star players to fake injuries:sarcasm:

MasterDecoy 10-19-2011 01:58 AM

Every tanking team has problem signing good talented UFAs. The only time they don't is after they've tanked for so long that they are now contenders: Chicago, Washington and so on. No one wants to sign with a team that is in the process of tanking. I.E. oilers.

Like you said.

But I doubt anyone wants to habs to tank that long right?

CrazyShea 10-19-2011 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterDecoy (Post 38141119)
Every tanking team has problem signing good talented UFAs. The only time they don't is after they've tanked for so long that they are now contenders: Chicago, Washington and so on. No one wants to sign with a team that is in the process of tanking. I.E. oilers.

Like you said.

But I doubt anyone wants to habs to tank that long right?

No one wants to sign with Edmonton because no one wants to live in the **** city

Le Tricolore 10-19-2011 02:36 AM



probably the 49th time i post this video on this forum.

ECWHSWI 10-19-2011 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist (Post 38140671)
Tanking really isn't required. I have little interest in watching habs lose. That being said, should they lose, there is only one request I have beyond the scope of a high draft pick. TRADE YOUR ****ING VETEREANS AT THE DEADLINE! It's a pet peeve of mine if I end up seeing guys like gill, spacek, moen, etc.. retained and lost. Trade them for a 2nd round pick, a 5th rounder, whatever. Why? Like craig rivet, we got gorges AND pacioretty. I do not expect that sort of return every time but logically, even if we get a young player with top 6 upside and size but a project, i dont mind, he may never work out but anything to add to the potential success of future teams is ideal.

Basically, come trade deadline, if we're losing, change philosophy. If we're in a competitive spot, then continue as is. The goal of management should never be to lose, it should be to win and make the playoffs. Even in the face of elimination after being sellers, you preach winning.



Yah, for the better. While I'm not saying tank because I find it stupid you have to consider if you get a top player to build around, yeah, you may not get UFA flooding over next year, but when the kid develops people will want to play with him.

Problem is, come trade deadline, most team have a PO spot already or have #8 within reasonable reach...

BobbyFischer* 10-19-2011 03:26 AM

Habs could have easily won TOR, COL, BUF games.

You are all over-reacting.

Habs are a contender this year.

Jimmy Ballzilly 10-19-2011 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterDecoy (Post 38140631)
Montreal doesn't tank. Period.

And besides, it's not unrealistic to say that it would greatly affect our ability to sign future UFAs



If I'm wrong someone correct me but I remember someone saying 'never'. But wasn't lafleur a first overall?

Meh, I'm rambling...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aceekay (Post 38140439)
It depends on who the #1 player is at the draft.

It would be nice to finally get a player who can get over 80 points consistently.

Does anybody know the last time we got a first overall pick?

Lafleur... and Réjean Houle too !

Mr. Hab 10-19-2011 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobbyFischer (Post 38141779)
Habs could have easily won TOR, COL, BUF games.

You are all over-reacting.

Habs are a contender this year.

I'm with you.

I feel that this team can do great things in the playoffs IF all or most of our CORE palyers remain healthy.

TOR, COL, BUF...could have won all games.

Our Habs win 2-3 in a row and everyone will stop the panic!
(my only complaint is the annoying waiting, waiting, and waiting for Markov).

ECWHSWI 10-19-2011 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Hab (Post 38141967)
I'm with you.

I feel that this team can do great things in the playoffs IF all or most of our CORE palyers remain healthy.

TOR, COL, BUF...could have won all games.

Our Habs win 2-3 in a row and everyone will stop the panic!
(my only complaint is the annoying waiting, waiting, and waiting for Markov).

the key will be the youngsters...

we already know Cammy will be a beast again, Plek will shutdown the opposing line completely, Gill will extend his "elite reach" (lol), etc... we already know all that...

question is, how will Pacc fare in the PO, and Diaz, and Emelin, etc... will they also have enough time to developp properly, will they learn the team system quickly enough, will they be intimidated (added pressure) ? that's where it all lies IMO.

jamz 10-19-2011 05:15 AM

With Markov and Cammalleri in the line up, the Habs are atleast a playoffs team. In the playoffs, Cammalleri, Gomez and Gill elevate their game. The Habs don't need to tank, they already have a shot at the Cup.

Canadian_Brewtality 10-19-2011 05:48 AM

what is going on around here?


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:45 AM.

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com, A property of CraveOnline, a division of AtomicOnline LLC ©2009 CraveOnline Media, LLC. All Rights Reserved.