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HabsRealist 10-25-2011 12:41 PM

Shrine for Bob
 
I think a shrine should be raised for Mr. Gainey. After all, there are so many for the creation of the team, one should be for the utter dismantling of it.

Whether it was high draft picks for Tanguay or Lang, terrible drafting year after year, or was really $ 7.5 million of our team tied up for this crumby 4th liner.

C Scott Gomez 6 0 1 1 -1


Bob should be rewarded for his incredible work.

Now get rid of Gauthier and hire the best person available, not the best french canadian available unless they are the same person.

I hope we lose every game this year and get a top pick, someone to watch for 10-12 years. And send Gomez down already to Hamilton so he can float around and smile down there while cashing his cheques !!

Andy 10-25-2011 12:48 PM

Tanguay and Lang were are best players for the time that they were here and the so called worst drafting has yielded players everyone constantly *****es about being gone. We have people cry endlessly about Sergei, D'agostini, Latendresse, Lapierre, Grabovski, Streit, O'byrne etc, but yet these are the same people that whine that drafting was bad.

He wasn't God, but he brought respect to the piece of crap he inherited.

Also you are taking things out of context. He traded draft picks for players after the year we finished first and everyone expected us to be a contender. he did what every other GM who contends does. Chiarelli did the same last year, traded a bunch of assets for complimentary players, it just happened to work in his case.

Lafleurs Guy 10-25-2011 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HabsRealist (Post 38453171)
I think a shrine should be raised for Mr. Gainey. After all, there are so many for the creation of the team, one should be for the utter dismantling of it.

Whether it was high draft picks for Tanguay or Lang, terrible drafting year after year, or was really $ 7.5 million of our team tied up for this crumby 4th liner.

C Scott Gomez 6 0 1 1 -1


Bob should be rewarded for his incredible work.

Now get rid of Gauthier and hire the best person available, not the best french canadian available unless they are the same person.

I hope we lose every game this year and get a top pick, someone to watch for 10-12 years. And send Gomez down already to Hamilton so he can float around and smile down there while cashing his cheques !!

I don't think you're being fair here. Gainey actually did a pretty decent job for his first few years here and he had the guts to draft Price knowing he'd be ripped for it. After his personal tragedy he seemed to go off the rails a bit and a lot of the moves near the end of his tenure didn't make sense. Personally, I sympathize with the guy as he had other things going on in his life that probably distracted him from his duties as GM.

And as much as I didn't feel that he rebuilt aggressively enough, he can't be blamed for guys like Komi, Higgins and others just dropping off the face of the earth the way they did. I mean seriously, what happened to those guys?

Bob may not have been our best GM and his last few months here sucked but he's far from the worst GM we've had. And if Price ever leads us to a cup (and here's hoping to God that he does) then Bob can claim some credit for it.

Gabe84 10-25-2011 12:55 PM

I'm not saying Gainey turned crap into gold... I'm not sure what he turned the crap into, but those who forgot how ****** this team was when Gainey took over are a sad bunch.

Gainey did much more good than he did bad. Is it time for a change of mentality? Maybe.

But Gainey was a great captain for this team. And as GM, he put some good teams together that lacked top-end talent but that had depth and at least some talent, compared to the laughing stock that the Habs were a few years before. The man deserves respect.

Aznrx8 10-25-2011 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy (Post 38453431)
Tanguay and Lang were are best players for the time that they were here and the so called worst drafting has yielded players everyone constantly *****es about being gone. We have people cry endlessly about Sergei, D'agostini, Latendresse, Lapierre, Grabovski, Streit, O'byrne etc, but yet these are the same people that whine that drafting was bad.

He wasn't God, but he brought respect to the piece of crap he inherited.

Also you are taking things out of context. He traded draft picks for players after the year we finished first and everyone expected us to be a contender. he did what every other GM who contends does. Chiarelli did the same last year, traded a bunch of assets for complimentary players, it just happened to work in his case.

Agreed. And he even brought Kovalev. A lot of people might hate him but he did produce in Montreal especially the season where he got 84 points. Watching the Habs now after he left is quite.... boring ? Except for the few Subban rush

Metropolitsky 10-25-2011 02:41 PM

Selective memory at his best

HTTP 400 Bad Request 10-25-2011 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy (Post 38453431)
He wasn't God, but he brought respect to the piece of crap he inherited.

This. He was exactly what this franchise needed at that time. He brought back respect from the league, the players and the fans.

The OP didn't mention the Kovalev trade, for obvious bashing reasons. Not only did he got him for cheap, he also achieved to get the best of him, turning him into an icon for this city.

The problem wasn't Gainey's reign, he gave his best during 5 years and gave us some pretty entertaining seasons. The problem is that he also decided what was to happen for the next 5 years by not resigning Koivu, trading for Gomez and signing Gionta and Cammalleri long term.

I do think he should have left during the summer, after firing his coach and friend Carbonneau. The timing would have been perfect.

But then again, we can think all this was decided way before, and he actually served as a sort of cover while Gauthier was already taking the decisions, hiring his friend Martin as head coach and changing the face of the franchise. But that's speculation.

terreur 10-25-2011 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy (Post 38453431)
Tanguay and Lang were are best players for the time that they were here and the so called worst drafting has yielded players everyone constantly *****es about being gone. We have people cry endlessly about Sergei, D'agostini, Latendresse, Lapierre, Grabovski, Streit, O'byrne etc, but yet these are the same people that whine that drafting was bad.

He wasn't God, but he brought respect to the piece of crap he inherited.

Also you are taking things out of context. He traded draft picks for players after the year we finished first and everyone expected us to be a contender. he did what every other GM who contends does. Chiarelli did the same last year, traded a bunch of assets for complimentary players, it just happened to work in his case.

LOL!!!! This is gold. It's incredible how some people always change their minds depending on the subject...
I bet that MaxPac's biggest fans are the ones that said he was a flop and that Esposito was the next great one :P

uiCk 10-25-2011 04:46 PM

considering everyone seems to put BG and PG eras as one, i hope this thread gets moved, to one of many management threads, considering the childish sarcasm used to bash Gainey.

This board makes Leaf fans look rational.

m00ks 10-25-2011 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy (Post 38453431)
Tanguay and Lang were are best players for the time that they were here and the so called worst drafting has yielded players everyone constantly *****es about being gone. We have people cry endlessly about Sergei, D'agostini, Latendresse, Lapierre, Grabovski, Streit, O'byrne etc, but yet these are the same people that whine that drafting was bad.

He wasn't God, but he brought respect to the piece of crap he inherited.

Also you are taking things out of context. He traded draft picks for players after the year we finished first and everyone expected us to be a contender. he did what every other GM who contends does. Chiarelli did the same last year, traded a bunch of assets for complimentary players, it just happened to work in his case.

Good post. I was wondering who this Andy poster was till I read your signature.

ashtraygirl 10-25-2011 04:51 PM

Lang was playing amazing for us before he got injured.

Protest the Hero 10-25-2011 04:53 PM

Get over it.

Kirk Muller 10-25-2011 04:54 PM

Gainey was an average GM in his time here. Some good some bad like most GMs.

My biggest gripe about Gainey is him fully knowing he was stepping aside and not allowing a future GM to rebuild this team. Instead, he hung them with HUGE contracts and basically wiped his hands clean. Gainey isnt a coward but that was a cowardly move.

uiCk 10-25-2011 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirk Muller (Post 38463341)
Gainey was an average GM in his time here. Some good some bad like most GMs.

My biggest gripe about Gainey is him fully knowing he was stepping aside and not allowing a future GM to rebuild this team. Instead, he hung them with HUGE contracts and basically wiped his hands clean. Gainey isnt a coward but that was a cowardly move.

On the premise that you have not one clue of how much those decisions were influenced by PG himself, your speculation is laughable.

Gabe84 10-25-2011 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uiCk (Post 38463403)
On the premise that you have not one clue of how much those decisions were influenced by PG himself, your speculation is laughable.

Unless I'm confused about what you're saying, it sounds like you are the one speculating.

Quote:

Gainey was an average GM in his time here. Some good some bad like most GMs.

My biggest gripe about Gainey is him fully knowing he was stepping aside and not allowing a future GM to rebuild this team. Instead, he hung them with HUGE contracts and basically wiped his hands clean. Gainey isnt a coward but that was a cowardly move.
Gainey didn't step down right after making those moves. He rebuilt this team, the team wasn't doing too good, and he decided it was time. That's fair, in my opinion. At least he gave it one more chance before taking off. I guess you could make a point that he should have left after his 5-years plan ended so pathetically (we got good hockey over that period, but the fact that he let everyone walk away is a pretty bad disavow about his own work) though.

DekeLikeYouMeanIt 10-25-2011 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HabsRealist (Post 38453171)
I think a shrine should be raised for Mr. Gainey. After all, there are so many for the creation of the team, one should be for the utter dismantling of it.

Whether it was high draft picks for Tanguay or Lang, terrible drafting year after year, or was really $ 7.5 million of our team tied up for this crumby 4th liner.

C Scott Gomez 6 0 1 1 -1


Bob should be rewarded for his incredible work.

Now get rid of Gauthier and hire the best person available, not the best french canadian available unless they are the same person.

I hope we lose every game this year and get a top pick, someone to watch for 10-12 years. And send Gomez down already to Hamilton so he can float around and smile down there while cashing his cheques !!

Oh yea terrible drafting. Under his reign, players were picked late that would NOW go in their 1st round. But yea let's **** on the guy.

uiCk 10-25-2011 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabe84 (Post 38463769)
Unless I'm confused about what you're saying, it sounds like you are the one speculating.



Gainey didn't step down right after making those moves. He rebuilt this team, the team wasn't doing too good, and he decided it was time. That's fair, in my opinion. At least he gave it one more chance before taking off. I guess you could make a point that he should have left after his 5-years plan ended so pathetically (we got good hockey over that period, but the fact that he let everyone walk away is a pretty bad disavow about his own work) though.

PG was assistant GM 3 years prior to the "big move". i would think he had some kind of say in all that, you know he was his assistant.

Teufelsdreck 10-25-2011 05:17 PM

Not everything Bob Gainey did was bad. I'll mention 4 things that worked out well (there were others, of course):

* Trading Jozef Balej for Alex Kovalev, who figured importantly in eliminating the heavily favored Bruins in the first round of the 2004 playoffs

* Trading José Theodore for Cristobal Huet and Radek Bonk

* Trading Craig Rivet for Josh Gorges plus a draft choice that landed Max Pacioretty

* Drafting Carey Price

As a GM, Gainey was better than Réjean Houle as well as Serge Savard and he handled the embarrassing Brisebois affair quite well.

Gabe84 10-25-2011 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uiCk (Post 38464081)
PG was assistant GM 3 years prior to the "big move". i would think he had some kind of say in all that, you know he was his assistant.

I get that. But isn't that speculation?

uiCk 10-25-2011 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabe84 (Post 38464241)
I get that. But isn't that speculation?

One can assume some comunication exists between a GM and their assistant. If you can assume that, you can assume there is (even if very minimal) influence (due to the existing communication) in any decision, were cummunication was present. So no, pointing out that PG had SOME kind of influence, wethere its 1% or 70%, is NOT speculation.

On the other hand, saying BG created this "mess" by himself, and let PG "responsible for the mess" because BG is a coward, is speculation.

habsjunkie2* 10-25-2011 07:28 PM

I thought senile Bob was a pretty bad gm if I'm to be completely honest, but I don't think this thread was necessary. I find it kind of insulting and I wasn't a fan BG's work.

AntonCH 10-25-2011 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HabsRealist (Post 38453171)
I think a shrine should be raised for Mr. Gainey. After all, there are so many for the creation of the team, one should be for the utter dismantling of it.

Whether it was high draft picks for Tanguay or Lang, terrible drafting year after year, or was really $ 7.5 million of our team tied up for this crumby 4th liner.

C Scott Gomez 6 0 1 1 -1


Bob should be rewarded for his incredible work.

Now get rid of Gauthier and hire the best person available, not the best french canadian available unless they are the same person.

I hope we lose every game this year and get a top pick, someone to watch for 10-12 years. And send Gomez down already to Hamilton so he can float around and smile down there while cashing his cheques !!


WoW emo much?
so much fail in this post
Tanguay was a decent pick up
Lang was arguably our best player when he went down
:shakehead:shakehead:shakehead

Whitesnake 10-25-2011 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy (Post 38453431)
Tanguay and Lang were are best players for the time that they were here and the so called worst drafting has yielded players everyone constantly *****es about being gone. We have people cry endlessly about Sergei, D'agostini, Latendresse, Lapierre, Grabovski, Streit, O'byrne etc, but yet these are the same people that whine that drafting was bad.

He wasn't God, but he brought respect to the piece of crap he inherited.

Also you are taking things out of context. He traded draft picks for players after the year we finished first and everyone expected us to be a contender. he did what every other GM who contends does. Chiarelli did the same last year, traded a bunch of assets for complimentary players, it just happened to work in his case.

Well that's about it Andy. In Chiarelli's case....IT JUST HAPPENED TO WORK. End-results, only way it matters. 'Cause I tell you, I might have to work really hard....but I probably can try to sell you how every move Milbury made was also with the idea that it could work well. As dumb as he is, pretty sure he didn't really try to screw that franchise up. Now, I'm OBVIOUSLY not comparing both guys, just that when you really have a desire to defend somebody, you can.

I don't think that people who thought that the draft was bad is really THAT separate to Gainey's work. The fact that he send those guys away or the fact that those guys didn't create as much as the org. thought they'd be, made some people think that the draft was really bad after all......until they saw how they would do somewhere else.

By the way though, the players you named on your list.....nobody could have thought that those guys were bad selections....they were way too low in the drafts so that people would matter about it. Frankly, and I'M part of that, most people are talking about 1st round selections as far as Timmins is concerned.

As far as draft picks are concerned, yes, some were given to acquire good players....yet, you can't ALWAYS give out 2nd rounders and never keep the players you acquire for more than half of year. Lang was indeed doing a fine job with us....but was he doing it based on how great he was? Or based on how pathetic our offense was? 65 big points our #1 scorer got that year. Yet, he did a fine job.....something which Grabovski would do for us last year....this year and for years to come.

But no. They were all cancers and just had to go. To which I AGAIN ask....how many teams had just half of the players that HAD to go like we did? I believe that cancers that have to go or addition by substraction are just formulas to make people feel better but in reality....even if you really have to let some people go, you should still be able to put them front stage, make them produce, and then ship them out. 'Cause it's often not who you trade....it's you get for. Anyway, you know my point on this. Gainey was not bad. But he CLEARLY was not great like some wanted us to believe. I'd personnally call him average. Average based on the fact that while the Houle's mess started with Savard, Gainey continue on that road and made us a better team. But a team he DESTROYED after his 5-year plan didn't work, to make up a total different team, team that we have in front of our eyes right now. And going back to my premise....we are still waiting for end-results.

TheultimateHabsFan 10-25-2011 07:55 PM

Wow to people around here have short memories. Just because the team is doing poorly, I know it's the Montreal way, does not mean that Gainey should be bashed. If you think this team is bad? Remember the team before Gainey inherited it. We have all the skill and talent we just aren't capitalizing on it. Gainey brought a team in shambles back to credibility, gave us hope and a future. Was he perfect? No... but nobody is. However the accomplishments and the work he did for this team should not be tarnished because people have short lived memories. Do you even remember the team that finished 1st in the east? or the fact that the year after he tried to fix all our flaws and we iced an amazing team that could have won the cup if not for the shambles that happened within the locker room. We should not bash Gainey, but thank him for at least giving us a team to cheer for and watch when times were rough. The habs will bounce back, they are too talented not too, don't put your frustration on a guy who bled blue blanc rouge especially after all the painful things that happened during his tenure.

Kirk Muller 10-25-2011 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uiCk (Post 38463403)
On the premise that you have not one clue of how much those decisions were influenced by PG himself, your speculation is laughable.

Seeing as he was the GM at the time, the ultimate decision is his. So you are speculating more than anyone.


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